support when things are going too fast and position on school
<adamoiseau77@...>
Hello everyone , I read you for some time now and I need your lights because I was struggling to position myself with the demands/needs of my first daughter Naïa ( 5 years). We are a family of four Naïa ( 5 years) , Tahina ( 2 years and a half ), David and me. Naïa has never been to school and I quickly arrested my attempts to " home school " because I saw that it did not suit us . I've been trying to me " out of school " . Naïa is a little girl full of questions about life , death , birth and everything else. She is constantly thinking and it will sometimes a little too fast for us, ideas succeed so quickly that she often " pick up " a response / activity to go to another while she is very interested in the answer or primary activity . I feel it does not happen to "center" and I see that it is sometimes difficult for her as operation and does not understand why others do not follow . It puts in a great state of frustration and the atmosphere at home is often complicated. This is even more complicated for me it is something difficult for me, focus me, do not scatter me and suddenly it " electrifies " the one and the other . That's my first question: how can I support ( us ) there? Naïa then asks us for about four years to go to school . Not all the time, period . At first I thought it was because she did not see enough of the world and we stepped out , meetings etc ... But the demand is back. I can not know exactly why , she said she wants to learn to read / write , what I say it does not need school for that. In fact I feel she wants a "normal" life be like any other children. We rubbed shoulders with a lot of family who is home education , she knows that other children do not go to school, but it seems to do as children who have a "classical" education. I do not know what to do with it , David said that this is not the choice that we made and I alternate between this position and that it has the right to be free to choose, even if I think it does not suit her . In addition we recently expatriates France to Mexico and I think this adds to the feeling of being " different." Thank you for read me (i hope the translate in not so bad) Anne
Sandra Dodd
-=-This is even more complicated for me it is something difficult for me, focus me, do not scatter me and suddenly it " electrifies " the one and the other . That's my first question: how can I support ( us ) there? -=-
Don't cling to your focus.
If you choose to be an unschooling mom, part of the job is accepting that a child's question or interst might last just seconds, or might last an hour, or a week, or a year.
-=-But the demand is back. I can not know exactly why , she said she wants to learn to read / write , what I say it does not need school for that. In fact I feel she wants a "normal" life be like any other children. -=-
It might help her to learn Spanish, too. And if she likes it, you can still facilitate all kinds of peaceful learning outside of school. And if she doesn't like it, she'll be making a real choice, to come back home.
I have no idea about the laws in Mexico. You're the third person from Mexico who's ever mentioned unschooling, and that's since July of this year. One was an au pair, and not a mom, who came to the LiTTLe Conference near London this summer.
In The Netherlands, it's a problem for a child to be enrolled and then taken out of school. By "problem" I mean, can't be done (as the laws are right now). I know zip about Mexican law and compulsory education (if any), so I don't know whether it's state-to-state or a federal law. As you're French, it might not apply to you entirely anyway.
Wikipedia (which might or might not be correct) says federal, compulsory, but: "Proof of Mexican citizenship is required to attend public schools for free."
If language comes easy to you and if that trait is in your daughter, she might pick up a lot of Spanish from TV. I have friends who were unschooling in the U.S and moved to England, where they continued unschooling, but when they moved to France they put their kids in school so they would read and write French, and use the language easily. That part of the plan seems to be working. One of the children likes school better than the other, but theyr'e going, and now they know more kids in their little town, too.
I met kids in India who were tri-lingual without going to school�English from parents, Marathi from relatives and neighbors and hearing parents speak with servants, and Hindi from kids' TV shows and from videos.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't cling to your focus.
If you choose to be an unschooling mom, part of the job is accepting that a child's question or interst might last just seconds, or might last an hour, or a week, or a year.
-=-But the demand is back. I can not know exactly why , she said she wants to learn to read / write , what I say it does not need school for that. In fact I feel she wants a "normal" life be like any other children. -=-
It might help her to learn Spanish, too. And if she likes it, you can still facilitate all kinds of peaceful learning outside of school. And if she doesn't like it, she'll be making a real choice, to come back home.
I have no idea about the laws in Mexico. You're the third person from Mexico who's ever mentioned unschooling, and that's since July of this year. One was an au pair, and not a mom, who came to the LiTTLe Conference near London this summer.
In The Netherlands, it's a problem for a child to be enrolled and then taken out of school. By "problem" I mean, can't be done (as the laws are right now). I know zip about Mexican law and compulsory education (if any), so I don't know whether it's state-to-state or a federal law. As you're French, it might not apply to you entirely anyway.
Wikipedia (which might or might not be correct) says federal, compulsory, but: "Proof of Mexican citizenship is required to attend public schools for free."
If language comes easy to you and if that trait is in your daughter, she might pick up a lot of Spanish from TV. I have friends who were unschooling in the U.S and moved to England, where they continued unschooling, but when they moved to France they put their kids in school so they would read and write French, and use the language easily. That part of the plan seems to be working. One of the children likes school better than the other, but theyr'e going, and now they know more kids in their little town, too.
I met kids in India who were tri-lingual without going to school�English from parents, Marathi from relatives and neighbors and hearing parents speak with servants, and Hindi from kids' TV shows and from videos.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 1, 2013, at 9:06 AM, <adamoiseau77@...> wrote:
You shouldn't support "us". You should support her. If you want to unschool, then support her learning. Support her exploring. Support her interests.
Smile with sympathy and admit you can't keep up with her thoughts if she's upset. :-) If she runs faster than you can, she's not broken! You're different people.
Perhaps you can find a mother's helper among the homeschoolers in your area. She could come in a couple hours a week to do things with your daughter. If you can find someone a teen or someone who is a bit older than she is who is bright and sparkly and likes shifting gears -- or mellow enough to go along with her -- that would be good for her. She'd get to experience how others handle her questions.
Keep open to her ideas. Keep trying different things. Everything you offer, even if it doesn't help, gives her a better understanding of herself and her world.
A more truthful answer is that all kids learn to read when their brains are ready to read. Just as your younger daughter is learning to talk and learned to walk when she was ready. There wasn't anything you could have done that would speed learning those up. The tricky thing about learning to read, though, is that most kids naturally learn to read between 6 and 8. That's also when schools do reading lessons. So the schools think they're teaching kids to read. But the kids are learning on their own. Though sometimes kids get annoyed or discouraged by the lessons that try to make them do things they aren't ready for and decide they don't like to read.
It's okay if your daughter doesn't believe you! Questioning what we hear is a good thing! It's okay if she wants to try school to decide for herself.
*She* will know school doesn't suit her by trying it. At school she will find parts she likes and parts she doesn't like. She will get to know herself better. She will experience something you can't give her.
Unschooling parents have a big advantage over unschooled children: Unschooling parents have been to school. They've experienced the good and bad of school. They've also experienced the good and bad of unschooling. They can speak from experience when they say an unschooling home is a better place to learn than a school.
Unschooled children don't have that experience. They know what we say. They know what schooled kids say. But it's not the same as experience. Not all unschooled kids want to go to school. It doesn't sound appealing to them. But some do. Think of school as an interest. :-) What would you do to support her interest?
You could find substitutes, as you've been trying. You could ask her what she imagines a day at school would be like. What does she think would be fun? What does she think would be not fun?
My daughter thought kindergarten would be riding big tricycles like in preschool. So she was okay with not going when she found out there were no tricycles in kindergarten.
She did try grade 2. After 2 months she decided she was done. She learned loads about school while she was there. She learn why school wasn't great place for her to learn.
What do you fear will happen if she goes to school?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> how can I support ( us ) there?It's harder to answer since the translation may be changing your words and your meaning.
You shouldn't support "us". You should support her. If you want to unschool, then support her learning. Support her exploring. Support her interests.
> She is constantly thinking and it will sometimes a little too fast for us,That's who she is. If she switches too fast for you, breathe. Smile. Accept your differences. You're also who you are. Do the best you can. Keep thinking of new ways to answer. But also accept your limitations. Be honest with her. Don't expect to be everything she needs for learning. But do you best! :-)
> ideas succeed so quickly that she often " pick up " a response /
> activity to go to another while she is very interested in the answer or primary activity.
> I feel it does not happen to "center" and I see that it is sometimesAs she experiences people not keeping up with her, she's learning about herself and about other people! She's learning how the world works.
> difficult for her as operation and does not understand why others do not follow .
Smile with sympathy and admit you can't keep up with her thoughts if she's upset. :-) If she runs faster than you can, she's not broken! You're different people.
Perhaps you can find a mother's helper among the homeschoolers in your area. She could come in a couple hours a week to do things with your daughter. If you can find someone a teen or someone who is a bit older than she is who is bright and sparkly and likes shifting gears -- or mellow enough to go along with her -- that would be good for her. She'd get to experience how others handle her questions.
> At first I thought it was because she did not see enough of the worldIt's good you tried several things. :-)
> and we stepped out , meetings etc ... But the demand is back.
> I can not know exactly why , she said she wants to learn to read / write ,She may not know herself. She may have many reasons. The reasons may be all tangled up inside of her.
Keep open to her ideas. Keep trying different things. Everything you offer, even if it doesn't help, gives her a better understanding of herself and her world.
> what I say it does not need school for that.Your answer says to her that school *could* help her learn to read and write. But that for some mysterious reason you want her to learn to read on her own.
A more truthful answer is that all kids learn to read when their brains are ready to read. Just as your younger daughter is learning to talk and learned to walk when she was ready. There wasn't anything you could have done that would speed learning those up. The tricky thing about learning to read, though, is that most kids naturally learn to read between 6 and 8. That's also when schools do reading lessons. So the schools think they're teaching kids to read. But the kids are learning on their own. Though sometimes kids get annoyed or discouraged by the lessons that try to make them do things they aren't ready for and decide they don't like to read.
It's okay if your daughter doesn't believe you! Questioning what we hear is a good thing! It's okay if she wants to try school to decide for herself.
> In fact I feel she wants a "normal" life be like any other children.Maybe. If you just moved, it is very likely she's trying to fit in. Humans are social creatures. We want to be part of society. :-)
> even if I think it [school] does not suit her .You can't know. She can't know. If humans could know what's right for them by being told, then school would be a great place to learn!
*She* will know school doesn't suit her by trying it. At school she will find parts she likes and parts she doesn't like. She will get to know herself better. She will experience something you can't give her.
Unschooling parents have a big advantage over unschooled children: Unschooling parents have been to school. They've experienced the good and bad of school. They've also experienced the good and bad of unschooling. They can speak from experience when they say an unschooling home is a better place to learn than a school.
Unschooled children don't have that experience. They know what we say. They know what schooled kids say. But it's not the same as experience. Not all unschooled kids want to go to school. It doesn't sound appealing to them. But some do. Think of school as an interest. :-) What would you do to support her interest?
You could find substitutes, as you've been trying. You could ask her what she imagines a day at school would be like. What does she think would be fun? What does she think would be not fun?
My daughter thought kindergarten would be riding big tricycles like in preschool. So she was okay with not going when she found out there were no tricycles in kindergarten.
She did try grade 2. After 2 months she decided she was done. She learned loads about school while she was there. She learn why school wasn't great place for her to learn.
What do you fear will happen if she goes to school?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anne De oliveira
Firstly thank you to both of you for taking the time to answer me that way.
You're right, I'm looking for a solution to help us as it is and interests that I have with him. I have a hard lately to find support for me and things that would recharge my batteries but should not I mix everything.
There are some things that are still a little fuzzy to me.
Sandra when you talk about
--- It might help her to learn Spanish, too. And if she likes it, you can still Facilitate all kinds of peaceful learning outside of school ---
What do you mean by "peaceful learning"?
For the moment it is not in a request to learn more Spanish with games it does with other children and activities (regional dance and drawing) she wanted to do the outside. She would also do gymnastics and swimming. It does not seem to worry him to play with other children and she asked me what we say when we talk with neighbors.
We do not have TV, they watch cartoons or deliveries (great passion Naïa) on youtube. I'll see if it is possible to put the TV on the computer if they wish.
- What do you fear Will Happen if she goes to school? -
So much in one question. This is quite ambivalent.
I fear that there is suffering (punishment, humiliation ...), it "normalizes" it is forced to abandon a portion of itself to comply and she chooses to do because she would want to be "like everyone else." But I'm talking about my experience not his, it is I who have lived it. Then if I want to be totally honest, I would be afraid that she wants to stay there and it impacts our family life (rhythms, alarm management, parties ...), I did not want to be upbeat by the school. And finally in the field of shameful, it's not very "class" in "the church" (to quote one of the articles Sandra) unschooling / homeschooling her child wants to go to school and I'm intellectually be a view that the needs / discoveries of my daughters take precedence it still persists in the background.
So much for thinking of day and night.
All this led me to ask Naïa if she wanted to go to school, what she said she would when she was eight years old and by then she wanted to do as it was now. ..
Have a good day
Anne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You're right, I'm looking for a solution to help us as it is and interests that I have with him. I have a hard lately to find support for me and things that would recharge my batteries but should not I mix everything.
There are some things that are still a little fuzzy to me.
Sandra when you talk about
--- It might help her to learn Spanish, too. And if she likes it, you can still Facilitate all kinds of peaceful learning outside of school ---
What do you mean by "peaceful learning"?
For the moment it is not in a request to learn more Spanish with games it does with other children and activities (regional dance and drawing) she wanted to do the outside. She would also do gymnastics and swimming. It does not seem to worry him to play with other children and she asked me what we say when we talk with neighbors.
We do not have TV, they watch cartoons or deliveries (great passion Naïa) on youtube. I'll see if it is possible to put the TV on the computer if they wish.
- What do you fear Will Happen if she goes to school? -
So much in one question. This is quite ambivalent.
I fear that there is suffering (punishment, humiliation ...), it "normalizes" it is forced to abandon a portion of itself to comply and she chooses to do because she would want to be "like everyone else." But I'm talking about my experience not his, it is I who have lived it. Then if I want to be totally honest, I would be afraid that she wants to stay there and it impacts our family life (rhythms, alarm management, parties ...), I did not want to be upbeat by the school. And finally in the field of shameful, it's not very "class" in "the church" (to quote one of the articles Sandra) unschooling / homeschooling her child wants to go to school and I'm intellectually be a view that the needs / discoveries of my daughters take precedence it still persists in the background.
So much for thinking of day and night.
All this led me to ask Naïa if she wanted to go to school, what she said she would when she was eight years old and by then she wanted to do as it was now. ..
Have a good day
Anne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- --- It might help her to learn Spanish, too. And if she likes it, you can still Facilitate all kinds of peaceful learning outside of school ----=-
If she goes to school you could still provide interesting, natural-learning opportunities outside of that time. There are LOTS of hours in a week.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If she goes to school you could still provide interesting, natural-learning opportunities outside of that time. There are LOTS of hours in a week.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anne De oliveira
Ok, I understand better.
Thank you very much for the answers, it helped put things into perspective and atmosphere here is really better. Everything was too tangled up in my head.
I would accompany according to their needs and interests included school.
Merely telling him that I would be there for that too if she wanted it really calmed things.
thank you
Anne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you very much for the answers, it helped put things into perspective and atmosphere here is really better. Everything was too tangled up in my head.
I would accompany according to their needs and interests included school.
Merely telling him that I would be there for that too if she wanted it really calmed things.
thank you
Anne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]