television
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/19/02 12:28:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Has anyone else had to combat this pressure from society, family and
friends
regarding unlimited TV? I be really interested in hearing some stories
about that.
without tv, everyone in our church didn't have tv. It was villified to no end
in the entire church...still is.
It was implied that you were going to hell in a hand basket if you owned one.
"Wordly influence" and all that jazz.
Well, my entire family still goes to that church, and the anti-tv feelings
run strong. They don't give me any crap about it though. At least my Dad and
sisters who have all loosened up considerably over the years. One sis owns a
tv even. ooooooh.
My Dad will sometimes make some anti-tv remark, but never AT me, just in
general. He's a really cool guy though, very much the type that can disagree
but not be negative or say anything.
If my one Grandmother knew how I did things from day to day, I'd never hear
the end of it!!!
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< Has anyone else had to combat this pressure from society, family and
friends
regarding unlimited TV? I be really interested in hearing some stories
about that.
>>Well....you could say the pressure in my family is like no other. I grew up
without tv, everyone in our church didn't have tv. It was villified to no end
in the entire church...still is.
It was implied that you were going to hell in a hand basket if you owned one.
"Wordly influence" and all that jazz.
Well, my entire family still goes to that church, and the anti-tv feelings
run strong. They don't give me any crap about it though. At least my Dad and
sisters who have all loosened up considerably over the years. One sis owns a
tv even. ooooooh.
My Dad will sometimes make some anti-tv remark, but never AT me, just in
general. He's a really cool guy though, very much the type that can disagree
but not be negative or say anything.
If my one Grandmother knew how I did things from day to day, I'd never hear
the end of it!!!
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/19/02 12:28:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I usually rejoin with,
"Really? We watched the PowerPuff Girl Marathon last night until 2 a.m.!"
<g>
Pam, very very bad >>
Gee Pam, I already liked you....now you're my hero!!! Isn't it fun to watch
the looks of horror?
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I usually rejoin with,
"Really? We watched the PowerPuff Girl Marathon last night until 2 a.m.!"
<g>
Pam, very very bad >>
Gee Pam, I already liked you....now you're my hero!!! Isn't it fun to watch
the looks of horror?
Ren
Kathy
For a multitide of reasons my family does not own a TV & we have no
intention of getting one anytime soon. I have read the many posts
here on TV & heard Sandra Dodd talk about it. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we
don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?
intention of getting one anytime soon. I have read the many posts
here on TV & heard Sandra Dodd talk about it. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we
don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?
Fetteroll
on 10/16/03 11:23 PM, Kathy at ndb1499@... wrote:
discuss?
What if someone had written:
For a multitide of reasons my family does not own any books & we have no
intention of getting any anytime soon. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of book reading if you have them, but
we don't.
If *your family* has decided they don't want TV then that's what your family
wants.
But if by "my family" you mean you and your husband, then what you're
wanting to discuss is restricting children's access to a resource. And it's
no different than discussing restricting access to books or the internet.
If someone doesn't have TV reception and cable is beyond their means, then
it's useful to discuss ways that kids to get access to the world beyond
their horizons.
Joyce
> Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TVIf your whole family has decided not to have TV then is there anything to
> free?
discuss?
What if someone had written:
For a multitide of reasons my family does not own any books & we have no
intention of getting any anytime soon. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of book reading if you have them, but
we don't.
If *your family* has decided they don't want TV then that's what your family
wants.
But if by "my family" you mean you and your husband, then what you're
wanting to discuss is restricting children's access to a resource. And it's
no different than discussing restricting access to books or the internet.
If someone doesn't have TV reception and cable is beyond their means, then
it's useful to discuss ways that kids to get access to the world beyond
their horizons.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 3:06:34 AM, ndb1499@... writes:
<< I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we
don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?
about my kids' ages, who are feeling very isolated, who don't live near enough
to come in to Albuquerque very often, AND she says they don't let them watch
TV.
I've written back to ask whether they don't even allow movies, and why.
That's like closing all the windows. Bad enough to live TRULY in the desert,
near where a new casino's being built and nothing more. They jump on a
trampoline and play basketball, and while those two things are wonderful things,
they can jump on the trampoline all day and not see any Shakespeare or pictures
of Africa or hear Japanese drummers.
We don't spring for cable TV but if we weren't right down the hill from the
broadcast towers we probably would.
I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.
From reading Howard Gardner's stuff on multiple intelligences in "Frames of
Mind," I just totally gave up my pro-text prejudice.
I was a good reader and a "good student," and I accepted that I was doing a
better thing by reading Poe and Dickens than just about anything else I could
have done. I no longer feel that way.
I thought about that really hard, about why my kids don't like books as much
as I did and I came to the conclusso healthy.
http://bookandsax
There's my summary of that, though.
And my collection of TV writings (not just mine) is here:
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
<< I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we
don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?
>>I just got e-mail from a mom who lives rurally in New Mexico, whose kids are
about my kids' ages, who are feeling very isolated, who don't live near enough
to come in to Albuquerque very often, AND she says they don't let them watch
TV.
I've written back to ask whether they don't even allow movies, and why.
That's like closing all the windows. Bad enough to live TRULY in the desert,
near where a new casino's being built and nothing more. They jump on a
trampoline and play basketball, and while those two things are wonderful things,
they can jump on the trampoline all day and not see any Shakespeare or pictures
of Africa or hear Japanese drummers.
We don't spring for cable TV but if we weren't right down the hill from the
broadcast towers we probably would.
I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.
From reading Howard Gardner's stuff on multiple intelligences in "Frames of
Mind," I just totally gave up my pro-text prejudice.
I was a good reader and a "good student," and I accepted that I was doing a
better thing by reading Poe and Dickens than just about anything else I could
have done. I no longer feel that way.
I thought about that really hard, about why my kids don't like books as much
as I did and I came to the conclusso healthy.
http://bookandsax
There's my summary of that, though.
And my collection of TV writings (not just mine) is here:
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
[email protected]
Are there any other installers out there that are living TV
Free?
I wish we could be TV free. There are lots of issues my husband just goes
along with in the parenting world; but not having a TV is not one of them. I'd
also love to get rid of cable; what I could do with the extra $42 a month. So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time.
Margaret
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Free?
I wish we could be TV free. There are lots of issues my husband just goes
along with in the parenting world; but not having a TV is not one of them. I'd
also love to get rid of cable; what I could do with the extra $42 a month. So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time.
Margaret
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**We don't spring for cable TV but if we weren't right down the hill
from the
broadcast towers we probably would.**
We got satellite two weeks ago because our reception has been so
scratchy and limited. My son literally danced around the house singing
Hallelujah! (Put a smile on my face.)
We're in that awkward transition period where I'm still amazed how many
times a day he can watch Scooby Doo, and he's probably amazed how many
times a day I can watch Changing Rooms. <g> (Two TVs.)
Today we're off for a long day in the park with a small group of
friends, and an evening sleepover with an out of town friend. So we're
achieving a decent balance.
But any day now I'm going to submit to the brainwashing power of TV and
start painting the house in hot colors. <g>
Betsy
**I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other
European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but
the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.**
Yeah, a book *without* pictures is not "better" and more sophisticated
than a book with pictures. Pictures add content and moving pictures add
more content. If one wants to provoke text-loving people, ask them if
they think National Geographic magazine would be better without pictures.
new topic
**When people who didn't watch the show anyway write and say "I was
offended and won't watch your program again" they're lying.**
Well, I didn't watch the show because I don't watch TV news much. But I
did read the full transcripts and I WAS offended. I didn't need HSLDA
to tell me to be offended. In my letter I said I would "avoid their
news shows in the future" because I didn't respect the thoughtfulness of
their reporting. I also said "I expected better from CBS." I didn't
claim to be a faithful viewer who was breaking it off with them forever.
I thought about suggesting that they fire the segment producer, but I
decided not to be that pissy about it.
from the
broadcast towers we probably would.**
We got satellite two weeks ago because our reception has been so
scratchy and limited. My son literally danced around the house singing
Hallelujah! (Put a smile on my face.)
We're in that awkward transition period where I'm still amazed how many
times a day he can watch Scooby Doo, and he's probably amazed how many
times a day I can watch Changing Rooms. <g> (Two TVs.)
Today we're off for a long day in the park with a small group of
friends, and an evening sleepover with an out of town friend. So we're
achieving a decent balance.
But any day now I'm going to submit to the brainwashing power of TV and
start painting the house in hot colors. <g>
Betsy
**I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other
European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but
the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.**
Yeah, a book *without* pictures is not "better" and more sophisticated
than a book with pictures. Pictures add content and moving pictures add
more content. If one wants to provoke text-loving people, ask them if
they think National Geographic magazine would be better without pictures.
new topic
**When people who didn't watch the show anyway write and say "I was
offended and won't watch your program again" they're lying.**
Well, I didn't watch the show because I don't watch TV news much. But I
did read the full transcripts and I WAS offended. I didn't need HSLDA
to tell me to be offended. In my letter I said I would "avoid their
news shows in the future" because I didn't respect the thoughtfulness of
their reporting. I also said "I expected better from CBS." I didn't
claim to be a faithful viewer who was breaking it off with them forever.
I thought about suggesting that they fire the segment producer, but I
decided not to be that pissy about it.
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 11:27:08 AM, fishierich@... writes:
<< So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes
home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time. >>
There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.
"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?
I just don't understand it.
Sandra
<< So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes
home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time. >>
There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.
"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?
I just don't understand it.
Sandra
Dawn Bennink
I'm jumping in right here, after just joining, but what the heck.
I don't limit my children's tv time. I do discuss with them shows that
I don't think are appropriate for them to watch and why, and we have had
no issue with that. They have decided after viewing just a few minutes
of some shows that they have no desire to see people behaving that
badly, even if they are cartoon people (or animals or whatever). I also
let them make the choice how much to watch, keeping in mind that there
are so many more wonderful things to do than sit and watch tv. After
all, it is all part of this world in which they live. If they don't
ever see the bad or make their own choices for moderation now, how will
they be equipped to deal with life as adults.
Lastly, there is so much on cable that is wonderful for kids and adults
alike that I would hate to keep them all of from it because of some of
the rottenness out there. If they are making choices to watch things
like Emeril Live, This Old House, Magic Schoolbus and other such
programs at 3 & 7, and self-limiting the time they spend doing it, how
can I complain too much.
Dawn
I don't limit my children's tv time. I do discuss with them shows that
I don't think are appropriate for them to watch and why, and we have had
no issue with that. They have decided after viewing just a few minutes
of some shows that they have no desire to see people behaving that
badly, even if they are cartoon people (or animals or whatever). I also
let them make the choice how much to watch, keeping in mind that there
are so many more wonderful things to do than sit and watch tv. After
all, it is all part of this world in which they live. If they don't
ever see the bad or make their own choices for moderation now, how will
they be equipped to deal with life as adults.
Lastly, there is so much on cable that is wonderful for kids and adults
alike that I would hate to keep them all of from it because of some of
the rottenness out there. If they are making choices to watch things
like Emeril Live, This Old House, Magic Schoolbus and other such
programs at 3 & 7, and self-limiting the time they spend doing it, how
can I complain too much.
Dawn
Shyrley
SandraDodd@... wrote:
will be negatively influenced by every passing image on the TV.
Shyrley
>In a message dated 10/17/03 11:27:08 AM, fishierich@... writes:I'm always astounded that people think their kids are dumb sponges who
>
><< So
>the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes
>home
>then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
>TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time. >>
>
>There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
>first! Wow.
>
>"Good for you" about limiting input?
>About limiting freedom?
>
>I just don't understand it.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>
will be negatively influenced by every passing image on the TV.
Shyrley
AM Brown
> I'm always astounded that people think their kids are dumb sponges whoI'm always astounded when people think that surrounding kids with negative
> will be negatively influenced by every passing image on the TV.
>
> Shyrley
>
talk and images doesn't have an effect:)
I haven't been called stupid or been told that someone hates me in decades
- since being in school! Yet everyday on TV, children's favorite
characters are calling people horrible names and treating them in
unimaginable ways - so which is normal? As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap. As they get older I'm sure they will choose to watch all kinds of
things and that will be their choice (as it is now), but to think it won't
impact them in crazy. There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies. My kids are 'amazing'
sponges and I do think it is worth a look at what things surround them.
With them I have seen living peacefully gives them strength to deal with
the tough times and hard issues that inevitably arise in real relationships
not ones dreamed up by people that have a belief that kids are mean
spirited and can't get along with siblings or their parents. But again,
for me it is not about TV good or bad, but about coercion. We choose not
to be coercive and figure out together how to live peacefully as a family.
Anna
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
ambdkf@... writes:
As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap.
~~~~~~
Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?
I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ambdkf@... writes:
As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap.
~~~~~~
Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?
I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
ambdkf@... writes:
There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies.
~~~~
Show me a study done on unschooled adults or kids, then I'll listen.
~~~~
My kids are 'amazing'
sponges and I do think it is worth a look at what things surround them.
No one said they weren't taking a look at what things surround their kids.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ambdkf@... writes:
There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies.
~~~~
Show me a study done on unschooled adults or kids, then I'll listen.
~~~~
My kids are 'amazing'
sponges and I do think it is worth a look at what things surround them.
No one said they weren't taking a look at what things surround their kids.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AM Brown
>I would have totally agreed had I not seen it in my kids. We don't speak
> Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?
>
> I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
> lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
>
to each other that way, yet they were using the words they heard Arthur and
Sagwa used and then fighting with each other and friends. When they
stopped watching and were just hearing the words we, their extended family
members and friends used they stopped. I found it all fascinating. I
think it is great if it is working for your family. I'm not trying to say
anyone should do what we did. It just happened that is what worked for us.
I also meant to be clear in my earlier post, and I wasn't, that I think
this applies to adults too. Maybe it is just sensitive adults but I am
effected by what I see and so are my dds so maybe it is just genetic in our
case:)
Anna
Nanci Kuykendall
>For a multitide of reasons my family does not own aWe own a tv, but we get no reception out here in the
>TV & we have no intention of getting one anytime
>soon. Are there any other unschoolers out there
>that are living TV free?
mountains and we don't have cable or anything like
that, nor do we want it. For me, I have trouble with
sorting, and the speed and obnoxiousness of commercial
programming, and so does my son. The noise alone
gives me a headache, not to mention the video. We do
have a moderate video collection, including a bunch of
kids' movies, a fair sized collection of other movies,
and a handful of dvds. My older son wants to be a
director when he grows up, and has a serious and
sophisticated passion for movies. I expect one of
these days, when he is old enough to take care of it,
we'll get him digital equipment for making his own
films, which he really wants.
The kids watch 1 or 2 movies a day, sometimes more,
sometimes less. We occassionaly sit in with them if
they are watching movies we also like, and every once
in a while hubby and I make popcorn and plan to watch
a movie in our collection we have not seen in a while,
or even more rarely we actually rent something.
We're not at all versed in the current sitcoms,
cartoons or tv shows, and don't miss them at all.
Between the computer, books and movies, I already have
to tear myself away to take care of my chores and
other obligations, and I'm plenty busy with those.
The kids have the computer, the internet access, the
library and their video collection and don't miss the
commercial tv. They occassionally catch programs at
cousins or grandparents houses, but they never lament
not having them at home.
Nanci K.
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 1:47:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.
"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?
I just don't understand it.
Sandra
OK! I have gone and read your TV Web page and I don't disagree with what you
and the other people have to say. I feel I am making the best decision for my
family my children are only 4 years and 18 months. Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. My opinion may change as
they grow older. They will have to make their own choices. Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?
What about the influence of commercial TV? Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. So does that mean I should not worry about commercial
TV? What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a 29
year old.
Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?
Margaret J
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.
"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?
I just don't understand it.
Sandra
OK! I have gone and read your TV Web page and I don't disagree with what you
and the other people have to say. I feel I am making the best decision for my
family my children are only 4 years and 18 months. Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. My opinion may change as
they grow older. They will have to make their own choices. Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?
What about the influence of commercial TV? Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. So does that mean I should not worry about commercial
TV? What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a 29
year old.
Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?
Margaret J
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/2003 3:11:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ambdkf@... writes:
There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies.
I don't watch the news. My kids don't either. A few times when someone was
going to be on we watched the whole show to tape the friend or family member,
and that's theonly time we've sat through news. My husband watches it
sometimes, mostly for the weather, but he mutes it if anyone else comes in because
car wrecks and dead babies make me grumpy/sad.
My kids are pretty analytical about other people's behavior. They don't
emulate what they see on TV. They hang out with other families where the parents
aren't as nice to their kids, and with some other kids who aren't as honest as
they are but it dosn't make them want to be like those other families. It
makes them appreciate their own lives more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ambdkf@... writes:
There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies.
I don't watch the news. My kids don't either. A few times when someone was
going to be on we watched the whole show to tape the friend or family member,
and that's theonly time we've sat through news. My husband watches it
sometimes, mostly for the weather, but he mutes it if anyone else comes in because
car wrecks and dead babies make me grumpy/sad.
My kids are pretty analytical about other people's behavior. They don't
emulate what they see on TV. They hang out with other families where the parents
aren't as nice to their kids, and with some other kids who aren't as honest as
they are but it dosn't make them want to be like those other families. It
makes them appreciate their own lives more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/2003 3:30:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ambdkf@... writes:
-=-We don't speak
to each other that way, yet they were using the words they heard Arthur and
Sagwa used and then fighting with each other and friends. =\=
When someone is mean on a show like that, the characters usually react to the
meanness or whatever and it becomes part of the story--how to deal with
frustration or bullying or whatever it is.
When my kids were little, I watched a lot of tv with them and discussed the
characters' motivations and personalities and what they might have done
differently. A lot of our conversations are still like that. Marty, Holly and I
watched The Truman Show (again) last week, and it's interesting to see their
reactions to things as they get older and understand more. This time, we talked
about the motivation and feelings of the guy who had played his dad, been put
off the show and came back. We talked about the advantages and disadvantages of
being in a "safe place" as Truman was, but how is sorrow was real when his
dad (who wasn't his real dad but he didn't know) "died" (in the story).
A few days ago Holly was watching Last Action Hero, and I wandered by and
"stuck," and in a while Marty showed up. It was more of the same discussion of
the nature of reality.
I think anything that gets an 11 year old and a 14 year old hanging out with
their mom talking about philosophy and psychology is a pretty good deal!!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ambdkf@... writes:
-=-We don't speak
to each other that way, yet they were using the words they heard Arthur and
Sagwa used and then fighting with each other and friends. =\=
When someone is mean on a show like that, the characters usually react to the
meanness or whatever and it becomes part of the story--how to deal with
frustration or bullying or whatever it is.
When my kids were little, I watched a lot of tv with them and discussed the
characters' motivations and personalities and what they might have done
differently. A lot of our conversations are still like that. Marty, Holly and I
watched The Truman Show (again) last week, and it's interesting to see their
reactions to things as they get older and understand more. This time, we talked
about the motivation and feelings of the guy who had played his dad, been put
off the show and came back. We talked about the advantages and disadvantages of
being in a "safe place" as Truman was, but how is sorrow was real when his
dad (who wasn't his real dad but he didn't know) "died" (in the story).
A few days ago Holly was watching Last Action Hero, and I wandered by and
"stuck," and in a while Marty showed up. It was more of the same discussion of
the nature of reality.
I think anything that gets an 11 year old and a 14 year old hanging out with
their mom talking about philosophy and psychology is a pretty good deal!!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
Tuckervill@... wrote:
they watch on TV. They don't emulate Homer Simpson or attempt to fly
like Superman. They know it is made up stuff. When we watch Eastenders
they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their
parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other. Watching it
doesn't make them want to do it but they find the shows interesting.
In the same way I like watching Buffy but don't feel the need to go out
and karate bad guys. Its escapist fantasy. Sometimes its cathartic.
Its the same with adverts. They have never yet asked to go to MacDonalds
or buy an SUV or eat meat cos they saw it on the TV. We talk about how
people differ and just cos one family does something then it doesn't
mean everyone has too.
If I wanted to keep them *pure* to my way of thinking then we'd never go
out. Most of my friends eat meat. We don't. Most of my friends coerce
and 'ground' their kids. We don't. etc etc.
They are capable of telling the difference between what goes on on TV,
other families and our family and making choices. They can watch stuff
without thinking it is 'ok' or 'normal' or even 'real'.
And if they didn't make their own choices about TV then it would be
coercion on my part.
Shyrley
>In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,Same here. My kids are aware that our lives are different from stuff
>ambdkf@... writes:
>As I mentioned in a earlier post,
>we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
>family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
>watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
>crap.
>~~~~~~
>
>Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?
>
>I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
>lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
>
>Tuck
>
>
>
they watch on TV. They don't emulate Homer Simpson or attempt to fly
like Superman. They know it is made up stuff. When we watch Eastenders
they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their
parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other. Watching it
doesn't make them want to do it but they find the shows interesting.
In the same way I like watching Buffy but don't feel the need to go out
and karate bad guys. Its escapist fantasy. Sometimes its cathartic.
Its the same with adverts. They have never yet asked to go to MacDonalds
or buy an SUV or eat meat cos they saw it on the TV. We talk about how
people differ and just cos one family does something then it doesn't
mean everyone has too.
If I wanted to keep them *pure* to my way of thinking then we'd never go
out. Most of my friends eat meat. We don't. Most of my friends coerce
and 'ground' their kids. We don't. etc etc.
They are capable of telling the difference between what goes on on TV,
other families and our family and making choices. They can watch stuff
without thinking it is 'ok' or 'normal' or even 'real'.
And if they didn't make their own choices about TV then it would be
coercion on my part.
Shyrley
AM Brown
> My kids are pretty analytical about other people's behavior. They don'tparents
> emulate what they see on TV. They hang out with other families where the
> aren't as nice to their kids, and with some other kids who aren't ashonest as
> they are but it doesn't make them want to be like those other families.It
> makes them appreciate their own lives more.Do you feel like they were always like that? When the tv thing happened
>
with us they were 2 and 4 now 3 and 5. I wonder if the difference is that
at such a young age they take in info differently or if it is just them/me
(i.e. personality). Maybe we would have had a rough spell and then they
would have worked it out. I just knew we couldn't go on like we were and
stay sane. I didn't think their solution would be to stop watching the
shows but it was and they honestly haven't wanted to start back. It would
be ok with me if they did, I'd just want to talk about the behavior and how
we all feel about it. It has been really interesting to watch and I'm
sure it will continue to change.
Anna
AM Brown
>. They can watch stuffAgain, I guess my question is could it be the age? (mine were 2 and 4 at
> without thinking it is 'ok' or 'normal' or even 'real'.
the time) I happen to love tv and movies and escapism. I would give just
about anything for a TIVO:) Maybe for Christmas this year. I think it
would be a great way to have tv work for you.
>Absolutely, that is why I don't make the decision for my kids. They have
> And if they didn't make their own choices about TV then it would be
> coercion on my part.
decided on their own. I'm not going to say they have too because I like it
and because all the unschoolers think it is cool:)
Anna
M. Dalrymple-Lepore
On Friday, October 17, 2003, at 05:27 PM, AM Brown wrote:
Yeah, I've had times when my little guy emulated the less-wonderful
parts of Arthur. But to be honest, I was grateful for the opportunity
to talk to him about it. I mean, I don't believe in sitting a 5 yr old
down and lecturing him on sexism because I had a whim one day-- but if
he emulates sexist behavior, suddenly it's relevant and not
preachy/schoolish for me to explain why that might hurt someone's
feelings (say, MINE) briefly, and go on with our lives.
So that's what has worked in our house. Your mileage may vary.
Melanie
> We don't speak******************
> to each other that way, yet they were using the words they heard
> Arthur and
> Sagwa used and then fighting with each other and friends
Yeah, I've had times when my little guy emulated the less-wonderful
parts of Arthur. But to be honest, I was grateful for the opportunity
to talk to him about it. I mean, I don't believe in sitting a 5 yr old
down and lecturing him on sexism because I had a whim one day-- but if
he emulates sexist behavior, suddenly it's relevant and not
preachy/schoolish for me to explain why that might hurt someone's
feelings (say, MINE) briefly, and go on with our lives.
So that's what has worked in our house. Your mileage may vary.
Melanie
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/2003 5:46:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
fishierich@... writes:
-=-Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. -=-
We don't have the television on all day.
You live there too, but if your priority is your children's learning, then
limiting input is going to make that more difficult.
-=-Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?-=-
I think (from years of experience at these kinds of exchangs) that what
you're envisioning and what I would be talking about would be two extremely
different things.
My short answer is "yes."
I don't think she will even BEGIN to choose the shows you're afraid of.
-=-What about the influence of commercial TV? -=-
"The influence" so far is that they know that the broadcast is free because
the sponsors paid for it. They were TINY little when we explained that
companies pay for advertising on TV, radio, magazines, billboards, and newspapers.
When the boys were little they were glad to know what toys were being offered
at which fast-food places, and they watched for those ads. Some toys they
weren't interested in; some they were. They were discerning even about fast food
toys.
Some people are teens or adults when they first realize that commercials
appeal to fantasy and self-image. My kids have known it since they were young,
and so not only did they discuss it and get over it, but they've freed up their
minds to think of loftier things.
We got a copy of GQ (Gentleman's Quarterly) last week, for articles on three
guys Marty really likes (The Rock, Conan O'Brien and Jack Black). That
magazine is mostly ads. Holly and I looked at a few and talked about how some
appeal to European fantasy, some to teens (not by SHOWING teens), etc. We had an
English version (not of the same issue)brought by a travelling friend, and the
ads were really different.
That's art, psychology, photography, commerce...
Holly is 11. She understands things now that I didn't understand until I was
in college.
-=-Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. -=-
My kids have never "had the gimmes."
I've tried to even change the words in which I will think about my children
and their environment. There are LOTS of phrases used as put-down and
belittlement.
"gimmes"
spoiled rotten
boob tube
junk food
brat
mindless tv
zombie
daydreaming (better connotation for some people than others)
It's possible to have long conversations with other parents which don't
require much thought, which don't say anything original, and which are very
disrespectful of children as a class and as individuals. Part of what got me where I
am today was a conscious choice NOT to go there.
My husband was at a "no children" barbecue with people from work, and they
got to badmouthing teens. What they were saying did NOT apply to our teens, and
it might not even have applied to theirs. They were just having a canned
conversation about how irresponsible and stupid teens are, and how hard it is to
be the parent of a lazy teen who never thinks. When Keith did say something
flattering about Kirby, our oldest, one of the parents made a dismissive
comment and they went back to their martyrly insults of people who had been
disallowed from the party.
Parents do it without thinking. They do it about school starting, they do it
when they use terms like
rug rats
drape apes
just a kid
young'uns (some manage to use that without insult; others intend to create
us/them)
-=-So does that mean I should not worry about commercial TV? -=-
It means I don't and lots of other people don't. You can worry about what
you want to worry about, but wouldn't it be cool if your 'worry' list could be
shorter?
-=-What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a
29
year old. -=-
My kids don't watch the news. They could if they wanted to. They rarely
choose to.
-=-Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?-=-
What are you really asking?
Would you feel better if people weren't honest?
Are you looking for a group that says whatever anyone does is great and all
parenting decisions are equally close to unschooling success?
You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected. It's part of learning about
unschooling for people to pick apart other parents' theories and ideas and practices.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fishierich@... writes:
-=-Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. -=-
We don't have the television on all day.
You live there too, but if your priority is your children's learning, then
limiting input is going to make that more difficult.
-=-Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?-=-
I think (from years of experience at these kinds of exchangs) that what
you're envisioning and what I would be talking about would be two extremely
different things.
My short answer is "yes."
I don't think she will even BEGIN to choose the shows you're afraid of.
-=-What about the influence of commercial TV? -=-
"The influence" so far is that they know that the broadcast is free because
the sponsors paid for it. They were TINY little when we explained that
companies pay for advertising on TV, radio, magazines, billboards, and newspapers.
When the boys were little they were glad to know what toys were being offered
at which fast-food places, and they watched for those ads. Some toys they
weren't interested in; some they were. They were discerning even about fast food
toys.
Some people are teens or adults when they first realize that commercials
appeal to fantasy and self-image. My kids have known it since they were young,
and so not only did they discuss it and get over it, but they've freed up their
minds to think of loftier things.
We got a copy of GQ (Gentleman's Quarterly) last week, for articles on three
guys Marty really likes (The Rock, Conan O'Brien and Jack Black). That
magazine is mostly ads. Holly and I looked at a few and talked about how some
appeal to European fantasy, some to teens (not by SHOWING teens), etc. We had an
English version (not of the same issue)brought by a travelling friend, and the
ads were really different.
That's art, psychology, photography, commerce...
Holly is 11. She understands things now that I didn't understand until I was
in college.
-=-Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. -=-
My kids have never "had the gimmes."
I've tried to even change the words in which I will think about my children
and their environment. There are LOTS of phrases used as put-down and
belittlement.
"gimmes"
spoiled rotten
boob tube
junk food
brat
mindless tv
zombie
daydreaming (better connotation for some people than others)
It's possible to have long conversations with other parents which don't
require much thought, which don't say anything original, and which are very
disrespectful of children as a class and as individuals. Part of what got me where I
am today was a conscious choice NOT to go there.
My husband was at a "no children" barbecue with people from work, and they
got to badmouthing teens. What they were saying did NOT apply to our teens, and
it might not even have applied to theirs. They were just having a canned
conversation about how irresponsible and stupid teens are, and how hard it is to
be the parent of a lazy teen who never thinks. When Keith did say something
flattering about Kirby, our oldest, one of the parents made a dismissive
comment and they went back to their martyrly insults of people who had been
disallowed from the party.
Parents do it without thinking. They do it about school starting, they do it
when they use terms like
rug rats
drape apes
just a kid
young'uns (some manage to use that without insult; others intend to create
us/them)
-=-So does that mean I should not worry about commercial TV? -=-
It means I don't and lots of other people don't. You can worry about what
you want to worry about, but wouldn't it be cool if your 'worry' list could be
shorter?
-=-What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a
29
year old. -=-
My kids don't watch the news. They could if they wanted to. They rarely
choose to.
-=-Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?-=-
What are you really asking?
Would you feel better if people weren't honest?
Are you looking for a group that says whatever anyone does is great and all
parenting decisions are equally close to unschooling success?
You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected. It's part of learning about
unschooling for people to pick apart other parents' theories and ideas and practices.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Solich
When we watch Eastenders
they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their
parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other.
Shyrley
I haven't seen Grange Hill for years. Is it still going or are you talking about old repeats?
Julie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their
parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other.
Shyrley
I haven't seen Grange Hill for years. Is it still going or are you talking about old repeats?
Julie
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:02:12 -0400 "AM Brown" <ambdkf@...>
writes:
she understand that it's all humor, satire. It's *funny*. I suppose on
CSI she sees people killing each other, which is not really normal... but
it's interesting, sort of like a detective story. She also really loved
reading Sherlock Holmes stories a couple of years ago, lots of murder
there, too. I don't think she sees it as normal. Actually, there are lots
of books that involve characters calling other characters names, or
hurting them - pretty much all of Dickens would be out if that was a
criteria, as would Archies comic books. Heck, most kids' books have
talking animals, which aren't normal, either... but the average 3 yr old
knows that that Brother and Sister Bear won't be moving in next door any
time soon...
Dar
writes:
> I haven't been called stupid or been told that someone hates me indecades
> - since being in school! Yet everyday on TV, children's favoriteWhat are you watching? Rain sees stuff like that on SNL and Mad TV, but
> characters are calling people horrible names and treating them in
> unimaginable ways - so which is normal?
she understand that it's all humor, satire. It's *funny*. I suppose on
CSI she sees people killing each other, which is not really normal... but
it's interesting, sort of like a detective story. She also really loved
reading Sherlock Holmes stories a couple of years ago, lots of murder
there, too. I don't think she sees it as normal. Actually, there are lots
of books that involve characters calling other characters names, or
hurting them - pretty much all of Dickens would be out if that was a
criteria, as would Archies comic books. Heck, most kids' books have
talking animals, which aren't normal, either... but the average 3 yr old
knows that that Brother and Sister Bear won't be moving in next door any
time soon...
Dar
Ren
" Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?"
NO!!:)
That would be like limiting music, or books, or travel, or colors, or radio, or
movies, or nature or....???Ack!
Why would an unschooler want to keep such an incredible source of information
from their family?
Just for the record, I had no tv for a time, then was rather restrictive about
the whole thing, and now, with NO restrictions can honestly say that is BEST.
Honest.
My kids have learned so very much from television and contrary to common myth,
they do not watch all day or let tv "rule" their lives (althought
they watched a TON for about 1.5 years).
They are avid video gamers also and we all love movies.
Learning is everywhere.
I would not choose to limit any method of communication from my children,
radical unschoolers that they are, absorbing information as though by osmosis!
Give them access to the world, don't stand in their way, and you'll be amazed
what a wonderful, incredible tool television is.
My unlimited children will get just as excited about the periodic table of
elements (Trevor this week) as they will about the latest episode of Cowboy
Bebop.
Even my unlimited 2y.o. will walk away from tv, something I wouldn't have
believed possible many years ago. He also asks me to tuck him in when he gets
tired, another side benefit of freedom!
Unschooling requires that we, as parents, lose the prejudices society lays upon
our schooled minds, and learn to see all modes of communication as worthy. In
order to truly honor our children, they must make their own choices...which
includes television viewing.
Ren
free?"
NO!!:)
That would be like limiting music, or books, or travel, or colors, or radio, or
movies, or nature or....???Ack!
Why would an unschooler want to keep such an incredible source of information
from their family?
Just for the record, I had no tv for a time, then was rather restrictive about
the whole thing, and now, with NO restrictions can honestly say that is BEST.
Honest.
My kids have learned so very much from television and contrary to common myth,
they do not watch all day or let tv "rule" their lives (althought
they watched a TON for about 1.5 years).
They are avid video gamers also and we all love movies.
Learning is everywhere.
I would not choose to limit any method of communication from my children,
radical unschoolers that they are, absorbing information as though by osmosis!
Give them access to the world, don't stand in their way, and you'll be amazed
what a wonderful, incredible tool television is.
My unlimited children will get just as excited about the periodic table of
elements (Trevor this week) as they will about the latest episode of Cowboy
Bebop.
Even my unlimited 2y.o. will walk away from tv, something I wouldn't have
believed possible many years ago. He also asks me to tuck him in when he gets
tired, another side benefit of freedom!
Unschooling requires that we, as parents, lose the prejudices society lays upon
our schooled minds, and learn to see all modes of communication as worthy. In
order to truly honor our children, they must make their own choices...which
includes television viewing.
Ren
Nancy Wooton
on 10/17/03 4:22 PM, M. Dalrymple-Lepore at si1verkitten@... wrote:
your day on the internet ;-))) that's one thing; I think watching with them
can be a valuable introduction to issues they might not encounter as
homeschoolers.
For example, my dd started watching ER with me when she was about 12. Dad
would play board games with ds, then about 9, while Laura and I had "ER
Night." One episode featured a 14 y.o. who was pregnant. This opened a
discussion following Laura's wide-eyed "She's *14*?" which included topics
like compassion for young out-of-wedlock mothers (my maternal grandmother
conceived my mom at 14), abortion, birth control, STD's, waiting until
you're truly ready, etc. All during the commercial break <ggg>
Nancy
(but I hated that Arthur show ;-) (and I told them if they started talking
like SouthPark, they couldn't watch it anymore -- then they started
imitating Cartman so perfectly, I couldn't stop laughing long enough to nuke
'em!)
> Yeah, I've had times when my little guy emulated the less-wonderfulIf you're leaving your kids alone to be babysat by the TV while you spend
> parts of Arthur. But to be honest, I was grateful for the opportunity
> to talk to him about it. I mean, I don't believe in sitting a 5 yr old
> down and lecturing him on sexism because I had a whim one day-- but if
> he emulates sexist behavior, suddenly it's relevant and not
> preachy/schoolish for me to explain why that might hurt someone's
> feelings (say, MINE) briefly, and go on with our lives.
>
> So that's what has worked in our house. Your mileage may vary.
your day on the internet ;-))) that's one thing; I think watching with them
can be a valuable introduction to issues they might not encounter as
homeschoolers.
For example, my dd started watching ER with me when she was about 12. Dad
would play board games with ds, then about 9, while Laura and I had "ER
Night." One episode featured a 14 y.o. who was pregnant. This opened a
discussion following Laura's wide-eyed "She's *14*?" which included topics
like compassion for young out-of-wedlock mothers (my maternal grandmother
conceived my mom at 14), abortion, birth control, STD's, waiting until
you're truly ready, etc. All during the commercial break <ggg>
Nancy
(but I hated that Arthur show ;-) (and I told them if they started talking
like SouthPark, they couldn't watch it anymore -- then they started
imitating Cartman so perfectly, I couldn't stop laughing long enough to nuke
'em!)
kstjonn
Too long to get into but we don't have access to satellite TV. But
we have an extensive movie collection. My nearly five yr old can get
out her own DVDs and put them in whenever she wants. And some may
say that it's not a real choice, since we chose the movies. But there
again, Soph makes the choices when we shop. Of course, we also buy
things when she is not with us, so there are always lots of choices
she may have not even known about or seen in a store or online. My
husband travels a lot and always comes home with a suitcase full of
movies (and books and toys and .... LOL). Yes, my daughter acts out
what she sees in a movie, but she does that with books too, should I
limit her reading time and book choices? She acts out things she
sees in her everyday life. This is how she processes and learns. She
adds her own flavor to these scenarios and changes things around to
get a diff. outcome.
we have an extensive movie collection. My nearly five yr old can get
out her own DVDs and put them in whenever she wants. And some may
say that it's not a real choice, since we chose the movies. But there
again, Soph makes the choices when we shop. Of course, we also buy
things when she is not with us, so there are always lots of choices
she may have not even known about or seen in a store or online. My
husband travels a lot and always comes home with a suitcase full of
movies (and books and toys and .... LOL). Yes, my daughter acts out
what she sees in a movie, but she does that with books too, should I
limit her reading time and book choices? She acts out things she
sees in her everyday life. This is how she processes and learns. She
adds her own flavor to these scenarios and changes things around to
get a diff. outcome.
Fetteroll
on 10/17/03 6:17 PM, fishierich@... at fishierich@... wrote:
What other things did they have in their lives that they enjoyed doing that
were available to them? Did you take them out to places and were they
unhappy and wanting to get back to the TV? How much did you watch with them?
How much were they left to themselves?
incompatible desires. And the solution to that dilemma you're modeling for
your kids is that bigger, stronger people get to have what they want and
smaller, weaker people get the shaft.
If we spent our childhoods doing what our parents wanted us to do and we
enter adulthood (and then parenthood) trying to fulfill the need to do what
we want, then we pass that legacy of neediness and unhappiness onto our
children. And our relationship with our kids isn't as joyful as it could be
because using our power to get our way creates an adversarial relationship
with them.
It's helpful in terms of building a relationship to recognize that children
have no power over the world. All the power they wield is what they get
through us.
If our goal is to have our own way, then having kids isn't a good way to
achieve that. If our goal is to help our kids (give them the power to) get
what they want in life -- which is the goal of unschooling -- then we need
to recognize when we're being our own roadblock to our goal.
Blocking our children's access to something they like (TV) is being a
roadblock to our goal. If you set your sights on helping them get what they
want out of life, then the things you want your way won't seem as important
as they did in the past.
That doesn't mean we should set our needs aside entirely. If we don't
respect ourselves, our kids won't respect us either. But it doesn't help our
relationship if we take away our kids power (that they're getting through
us) in order to respect ourselves.
they want (on things that aren't dangerous), the easier it will be when they
have the power and freedom to do whatever they want with choices that are
dangerous.
Learning how to make choices between TV shows is much safer than learning
how to make choices when cars and alcohol are available.
At 4 does she go to the adult section of the library and pull out The Joy of
Sex and full color photos of war? Those things just don't interest kids.
My daughter has always been able to choose what she wanted to watch. She
didn't much care about flipping through channels at 4 but by 6 she would
search for the stations that had cartoons. She'd pass by anything live
action.
There isn't any reason for little kids to be watching shows that we fear
they'll watch. They won't want to see the news or sex or violence. It just
doesn't interest them. (And if it does, then it's likely there's something
else going on in their lives that they need help with.)
(There are, though, kids who develop deep compassion early who can be upset
by images of people being mean to each other. Rather than avoiding TV, we
can help them have power over TV by helping them figure out ways to get to
what they want on TV while avoiding seeing the things they don't want to
see.)
I think it's more helpful to use commercials for things the kids don't want
-- adult stuff like laundry detergent and toys that don't interest them --
for discussion rather than using the commercials for things they want. If we
use commercials for things they want the kids will recognize the agenda
isn't commercial awarenes but is really about convincing them they're being
decieved and manipulated into wanting that product.
talked about that being advertising for the news. The stations want us to
watch the news so they make it sound like the sky is falling so we'll feel
like we have to watch it.
around their fears rather than examining whether those fears have
foundations and discussing ways to deal with the fears?
Building and maintaining walls against what we fear is always much easier
than examining and dealing with fears. But walls give power to the things we
fear beyond what they have. Knowledge helps us understand what the true
power is of the things we fear and gives us power over them.
Joyce
> Having the television onDid they turn it on themselves and watch it all day? For how many months?
> all day is not something I want and I live here too.
What other things did they have in their lives that they enjoyed doing that
were available to them? Did you take them out to places and were they
unhappy and wanting to get back to the TV? How much did you watch with them?
How much were they left to themselves?
> Having the television onAnd if they did want it on all day and you didn't then there are two sets of
> all day is not something I want and I live here too.
incompatible desires. And the solution to that dilemma you're modeling for
your kids is that bigger, stronger people get to have what they want and
smaller, weaker people get the shaft.
If we spent our childhoods doing what our parents wanted us to do and we
enter adulthood (and then parenthood) trying to fulfill the need to do what
we want, then we pass that legacy of neediness and unhappiness onto our
children. And our relationship with our kids isn't as joyful as it could be
because using our power to get our way creates an adversarial relationship
with them.
It's helpful in terms of building a relationship to recognize that children
have no power over the world. All the power they wield is what they get
through us.
If our goal is to have our own way, then having kids isn't a good way to
achieve that. If our goal is to help our kids (give them the power to) get
what they want in life -- which is the goal of unschooling -- then we need
to recognize when we're being our own roadblock to our goal.
Blocking our children's access to something they like (TV) is being a
roadblock to our goal. If you set your sights on helping them get what they
want out of life, then the things you want your way won't seem as important
as they did in the past.
That doesn't mean we should set our needs aside entirely. If we don't
respect ourselves, our kids won't respect us either. But it doesn't help our
relationship if we take away our kids power (that they're getting through
us) in order to respect ourselves.
> My opinion may change asThe more help and practice they have when they're younger trying to get what
> they grow older. They will have to make their own choices.
they want (on things that aren't dangerous), the easier it will be when they
have the power and freedom to do whatever they want with choices that are
dangerous.
Learning how to make choices between TV shows is much safer than learning
how to make choices when cars and alcohol are available.
> Do you think at 4Yes.
> years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?
At 4 does she go to the adult section of the library and pull out The Joy of
Sex and full color photos of war? Those things just don't interest kids.
My daughter has always been able to choose what she wanted to watch. She
didn't much care about flipping through channels at 4 but by 6 she would
search for the stations that had cartoons. She'd pass by anything live
action.
There isn't any reason for little kids to be watching shows that we fear
they'll watch. They won't want to see the news or sex or violence. It just
doesn't interest them. (And if it does, then it's likely there's something
else going on in their lives that they need help with.)
(There are, though, kids who develop deep compassion early who can be upset
by images of people being mean to each other. Rather than avoiding TV, we
can help them have power over TV by helping them figure out ways to get to
what they want on TV while avoiding seeing the things they don't want to
see.)
> What about the influence of commercial TV? Do you not think that has anYou can talk about advertisements with them to give them power over them.
> affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
> Children' and agree completely. So does that mean I should not worry about
> commercial TV?
I think it's more helpful to use commercials for things the kids don't want
-- adult stuff like laundry detergent and toys that don't interest them --
for discussion rather than using the commercials for things they want. If we
use commercials for things they want the kids will recognize the agenda
isn't commercial awarenes but is really about convincing them they're being
decieved and manipulated into wanting that product.
> What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time newsMy daughter has told me that news flashes don't seem real to her. And we've
> coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a
> 29 year old.
talked about that being advertising for the news. The stations want us to
watch the news so they make it sound like the sky is falling so we'll feel
like we have to watch it.
> Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should IAs in a place where people can comfortably share the walls they've built up
> reconsider my involvement in this chat group?
around their fears rather than examining whether those fears have
foundations and discussing ways to deal with the fears?
Building and maintaining walls against what we fear is always much easier
than examining and dealing with fears. But walls give power to the things we
fear beyond what they have. Knowledge helps us understand what the true
power is of the things we fear and gives us power over them.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 8:30:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected.
Well, isn't this why I'm hear to broaden my views and opinions. Which will
hopefully make me a more open minded parent/person. I like the idea of people
giving honest opinions on subjects. No one said I had to agree; but I'm willing
to think about it.
Margaret
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected.
Well, isn't this why I'm hear to broaden my views and opinions. Which will
hopefully make me a more open minded parent/person. I like the idea of people
giving honest opinions on subjects. No one said I had to agree; but I'm willing
to think about it.
Margaret
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]