Fear, withholding, mucking it up, figuring it out
lisajceledon
<<Ideas should make sense to you before you change anything in your life. Some ideas only make sense when you try them out. It's a paradox. People need to hurry and unschool without rushing in to it. People can't wait forever, or it's too late. But if they move too far too fast, it can make a mess.>>
I moved too far too fast and made a mess. I think fear can make people do that. I think I've been too fearful, immature perhaps- to do much (reading, waiting, watching) just *a little.*
My boys are young, 3.5 and 20 months. I have misunderstood a lot about unschooling previously, including how much less useful it is to think in terms of 'unschooling' my toddlers than it is to think about building a relationship with them based on trust and partnership. I got carried away with trying to 'do it right' and I totally lost perspective.
That's where I'm starting from today, and I'm writing with a specific issue on my mind that I want some help with sorting out what really matters as I move forward.
Since about 14 months, my youngest has had a few health issues: tooth decay, constipation, and 'picky' eating. As in, he went from eating pretty much anything to eating almost nothing we offered (he would eat cheerios or crackers or similar things if my older child left them out and he found them).
My older child has not had his food choices restricted since I first started reading about unschooling. I had planned on letting my youngest lead the way on solids, but looking back, I realize I was often anxious about what he ate, and in fact did not let him eat solids even when he wanted them until he was almost 8 months (I told myself I was worried about the impact it would have on my milk supply, but as I said, retrospectively I realize that didn't make much sense, and was certainly not supported by anything I told myself I believed about children making choices and my biology being capable of adjusting to them).
By 14 months we noticed the tooth decay, and also that he was having difficulty passing stools. He has tongue tie and lip tie, and we've recently learn that this could have been contributing to both issues, but I had never looked into it or made the connection, since I'd never had any pain while nursing (and in fact had read nothing about it until about a week ago).
I began to restrict his foods, first cutting wheat products and refined sugar from his diet and mine. I got very caught up in reading WAY TOO MUCH about tooth decay in infants, about constipation, food sensitivities, etc etc - I overloaded myself with information from various sources and instead of taking the time to sort out what I'd read, try things, wait, and watch, I continued to read and read and worry and worry, stress about what my toddler *was* eating (he was still able to find stray cheerios and crackers left by his brother), and stress about what he *wouldn't* eat (any of the things I was offering to help his constipation and tooth decay). I stressed about him not pooping. I told his brother not to offer him food. I kept offering what I wanted him to eat, again if he refused, ignoring his refusals, putting a little in his mouth anyway. Then I found that if I left him the spoon he'd eat some things on his own, some of the time. That wasn't enough to ease my fear. I pushed some more.
My toddler refused to eat more and more, and began nursing a LOT instead. I spent a lot of time focused on this giant problem I couldn't solve, and very little time focusing on my relationship with my boys.
My toddler began tantruming often when he had gone a few days without pooping. He bangs his head on walls and tables and the floor, throws himself backward, smacks/kicks -- and is set off by loud or angry voices, and when he feels the urge to poop. My three year old has become (understandably) frustrated and angry with not having my attention, and with being constantly told not to yell or shout to prevent my toddler from freaking out. He's too heavy to carry around with me now while I nurse him (which is happening for much of the day), and frankly my attitude about it has sucked. "I can't play with you right now, I'm nursing your brother." I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it. I continued to read read read read more and more about constipation (including what I could find on the issue on this list in the archives), tooth decay, diet, etc etc, continued to stress, and continued to worry about nothing working for my son. I followed advice like force-feeding him when he refused to eat or take anything to relieve the constipation. I was anxious and it felt easy to justify it as something I *had* to do to help him (please note that this is not something I am trying to justify - I now see that there was no necessity that justified the damage it did).
After he became impacted for the second time, I took the advice of the pediatrician, which I hadn't wanted to do at first, which was do a miralax clean out (I had been reading reading reading about all the possible negative consequences about using miralax and was scared to use it) and liquid suppositories.
It didn't work like they wanted it to, and after a week and a half of follow up calls and dose adjusting and everyone (me, my husband, the pediatricians) stressing about getting enough miralax and fluids into him, it was obvious that the impaction was too big for him to pass, even when a suppository forced him to bear down on it. The pediatrician said she didn't know what to tell me, that she'd never had miralax not work, so keep doing what we were doing and if he got sick, take him to the ER.
A nurse friend suggested I use my finger to help break the impaction up as it came out, which is what ended up working. He pooped comfortably for a few days afterward, that was about two weeks ago. He is back to holding it, not eating, completely refusing the miralax or any liquids we offer him, and most foods (though nursing a ton). I have given him a suppository twice, both times he hadn't pooped for a few days, was starting to get really cranky, uncomfortable, upset with having the urge to go, tantruming, hitting me and his brother-- basically in distress. The suppository works instantly for him, he poops a bunch, it's over within ten minutes, and he is happy for the rest of the day. He eats a little (as long as we don't actually offer it, and he makes the choice to eat it on his own). happy the next day, and then by the third day it starts to go downhill again. I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. I left a message this morning for my pediatrician asking what she advises now.
I am writing to this group, because I have recently come to the realization of how my attitudes and controlling/fearful approach to this issue have really done some damage to my relationship with both my kids. I was NOT living by the principles I want to live by: trust, respect, compassion -- and though I knew enough to realize that my actions would have a negative impact on my relationship with my kids, and could see how unhappy, stressed, etc, everyone was, I didn't understand how to do it differently.
I came to this realization two days ago while I was writing out yet another plea for advice on various parenting forums/lists I go to. I realized I would probably get the same advice I'd been getting (try water, probiotics, oils, prunes, miralax, etc). That advice was NOT WORKING. It didn't matter what he ate or drank or didn't eat or drink. He still wouldn't poop. He holds it. He's afraid. He will not eat or drink what I offer him. My son does not trust what I offer him. I don't blame him.
I want to do it differently. Yesterday I gave him a suppository because he had been tantruming most of the morning. I could tell my older son was starting to get really frustrated with me being repeatedly distracted.
He pooped. He 'sang' while he finished (he babbles conversationally but has no words yet), he spent the rest of the day playing with me, with his brother, playing on his own while I played with his brother, watching a movie with his brother while I got some housework done (the first I've gotten done in weeks), and happily munching away on O's and peanut butter puffs (which he hasn't been allowed for some time). He finished a cupcake his brother didn't want. He ate out of my chili bowl at dinner (but left his yogurt untouched- mixing oils with cultured coconut yogurt was one of the few ways we could get him to take it willingly. Not as of a few days ago. Won't touch it. I put it away without a word.)
It was such a peaceful, happy, fun day after that.
I want to focus on repairing my relationship with my boys. I want to earn their trust back. I want to trust them, I want to trust myself. I also want to support my toddler's colon while it heals from being stretched by the impaction. I want to support his healing process without trying to control him. I want to be responsible. I know I can do all those things together. I think I need help seeing how I might go about finding that balance.
Thank you for reading.
I moved too far too fast and made a mess. I think fear can make people do that. I think I've been too fearful, immature perhaps- to do much (reading, waiting, watching) just *a little.*
My boys are young, 3.5 and 20 months. I have misunderstood a lot about unschooling previously, including how much less useful it is to think in terms of 'unschooling' my toddlers than it is to think about building a relationship with them based on trust and partnership. I got carried away with trying to 'do it right' and I totally lost perspective.
That's where I'm starting from today, and I'm writing with a specific issue on my mind that I want some help with sorting out what really matters as I move forward.
Since about 14 months, my youngest has had a few health issues: tooth decay, constipation, and 'picky' eating. As in, he went from eating pretty much anything to eating almost nothing we offered (he would eat cheerios or crackers or similar things if my older child left them out and he found them).
My older child has not had his food choices restricted since I first started reading about unschooling. I had planned on letting my youngest lead the way on solids, but looking back, I realize I was often anxious about what he ate, and in fact did not let him eat solids even when he wanted them until he was almost 8 months (I told myself I was worried about the impact it would have on my milk supply, but as I said, retrospectively I realize that didn't make much sense, and was certainly not supported by anything I told myself I believed about children making choices and my biology being capable of adjusting to them).
By 14 months we noticed the tooth decay, and also that he was having difficulty passing stools. He has tongue tie and lip tie, and we've recently learn that this could have been contributing to both issues, but I had never looked into it or made the connection, since I'd never had any pain while nursing (and in fact had read nothing about it until about a week ago).
I began to restrict his foods, first cutting wheat products and refined sugar from his diet and mine. I got very caught up in reading WAY TOO MUCH about tooth decay in infants, about constipation, food sensitivities, etc etc - I overloaded myself with information from various sources and instead of taking the time to sort out what I'd read, try things, wait, and watch, I continued to read and read and worry and worry, stress about what my toddler *was* eating (he was still able to find stray cheerios and crackers left by his brother), and stress about what he *wouldn't* eat (any of the things I was offering to help his constipation and tooth decay). I stressed about him not pooping. I told his brother not to offer him food. I kept offering what I wanted him to eat, again if he refused, ignoring his refusals, putting a little in his mouth anyway. Then I found that if I left him the spoon he'd eat some things on his own, some of the time. That wasn't enough to ease my fear. I pushed some more.
My toddler refused to eat more and more, and began nursing a LOT instead. I spent a lot of time focused on this giant problem I couldn't solve, and very little time focusing on my relationship with my boys.
My toddler began tantruming often when he had gone a few days without pooping. He bangs his head on walls and tables and the floor, throws himself backward, smacks/kicks -- and is set off by loud or angry voices, and when he feels the urge to poop. My three year old has become (understandably) frustrated and angry with not having my attention, and with being constantly told not to yell or shout to prevent my toddler from freaking out. He's too heavy to carry around with me now while I nurse him (which is happening for much of the day), and frankly my attitude about it has sucked. "I can't play with you right now, I'm nursing your brother." I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it. I continued to read read read read more and more about constipation (including what I could find on the issue on this list in the archives), tooth decay, diet, etc etc, continued to stress, and continued to worry about nothing working for my son. I followed advice like force-feeding him when he refused to eat or take anything to relieve the constipation. I was anxious and it felt easy to justify it as something I *had* to do to help him (please note that this is not something I am trying to justify - I now see that there was no necessity that justified the damage it did).
After he became impacted for the second time, I took the advice of the pediatrician, which I hadn't wanted to do at first, which was do a miralax clean out (I had been reading reading reading about all the possible negative consequences about using miralax and was scared to use it) and liquid suppositories.
It didn't work like they wanted it to, and after a week and a half of follow up calls and dose adjusting and everyone (me, my husband, the pediatricians) stressing about getting enough miralax and fluids into him, it was obvious that the impaction was too big for him to pass, even when a suppository forced him to bear down on it. The pediatrician said she didn't know what to tell me, that she'd never had miralax not work, so keep doing what we were doing and if he got sick, take him to the ER.
A nurse friend suggested I use my finger to help break the impaction up as it came out, which is what ended up working. He pooped comfortably for a few days afterward, that was about two weeks ago. He is back to holding it, not eating, completely refusing the miralax or any liquids we offer him, and most foods (though nursing a ton). I have given him a suppository twice, both times he hadn't pooped for a few days, was starting to get really cranky, uncomfortable, upset with having the urge to go, tantruming, hitting me and his brother-- basically in distress. The suppository works instantly for him, he poops a bunch, it's over within ten minutes, and he is happy for the rest of the day. He eats a little (as long as we don't actually offer it, and he makes the choice to eat it on his own). happy the next day, and then by the third day it starts to go downhill again. I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. I left a message this morning for my pediatrician asking what she advises now.
I am writing to this group, because I have recently come to the realization of how my attitudes and controlling/fearful approach to this issue have really done some damage to my relationship with both my kids. I was NOT living by the principles I want to live by: trust, respect, compassion -- and though I knew enough to realize that my actions would have a negative impact on my relationship with my kids, and could see how unhappy, stressed, etc, everyone was, I didn't understand how to do it differently.
I came to this realization two days ago while I was writing out yet another plea for advice on various parenting forums/lists I go to. I realized I would probably get the same advice I'd been getting (try water, probiotics, oils, prunes, miralax, etc). That advice was NOT WORKING. It didn't matter what he ate or drank or didn't eat or drink. He still wouldn't poop. He holds it. He's afraid. He will not eat or drink what I offer him. My son does not trust what I offer him. I don't blame him.
I want to do it differently. Yesterday I gave him a suppository because he had been tantruming most of the morning. I could tell my older son was starting to get really frustrated with me being repeatedly distracted.
He pooped. He 'sang' while he finished (he babbles conversationally but has no words yet), he spent the rest of the day playing with me, with his brother, playing on his own while I played with his brother, watching a movie with his brother while I got some housework done (the first I've gotten done in weeks), and happily munching away on O's and peanut butter puffs (which he hasn't been allowed for some time). He finished a cupcake his brother didn't want. He ate out of my chili bowl at dinner (but left his yogurt untouched- mixing oils with cultured coconut yogurt was one of the few ways we could get him to take it willingly. Not as of a few days ago. Won't touch it. I put it away without a word.)
It was such a peaceful, happy, fun day after that.
I want to focus on repairing my relationship with my boys. I want to earn their trust back. I want to trust them, I want to trust myself. I also want to support my toddler's colon while it heals from being stretched by the impaction. I want to support his healing process without trying to control him. I want to be responsible. I know I can do all those things together. I think I need help seeing how I might go about finding that balance.
Thank you for reading.
Aza
HI, I am pretty new to this group, I have been unschooling since my 7 and 5 were little and have become more radical in the last year. My 7 yr old son has encopresis ( soiling due to years of repeated constipation) what started as possibly a dietary problem quickly became a behavioral problem because of my worry. and stayed that way for several years, until this year when I chose to give him the reigns and back away because I knew I was making it worse.
Right now, the most important thing you can do is relax and listen. Offer whatever seems to help in the food realm ( p foods for us, peaches, pears, peas, which are great for monkey plates) lots of breastmilk and water. When he begins to become uncomfortable, you have to get more relaxed. One of the things my son needs is total silence, he goes into the bathroom turns on the fan, we have all learned to leave him be.
Your little guy is small, is he in diapers still? can you create a special space for him that feels safe and quiet? I always jumped in to help my son, but really he wanted me to get the heck away from him. What do you think your son is telling you? constipation is tough stuff. my son now seems to eat and gravitate towards the stuff that helps him ( he loves things like chili and black beans and rice, but avoids cheese) But really the best thing you can do is relax and listen with all of your senses to what your boys are telling you.
And one more thing just for you to think about. My son has the most trouble when the environment becomes controlling. Certain members of our extended family being around will make it as we say in our house "crawl back up". They are not so supportive of our lifestyle, and my kids can feel it. If I start worrying and then start controlling the environment to assuage my worry, we really have a problem. Good luck! It is a hard road. But it gets softer. LOL!
Right now, the most important thing you can do is relax and listen. Offer whatever seems to help in the food realm ( p foods for us, peaches, pears, peas, which are great for monkey plates) lots of breastmilk and water. When he begins to become uncomfortable, you have to get more relaxed. One of the things my son needs is total silence, he goes into the bathroom turns on the fan, we have all learned to leave him be.
Your little guy is small, is he in diapers still? can you create a special space for him that feels safe and quiet? I always jumped in to help my son, but really he wanted me to get the heck away from him. What do you think your son is telling you? constipation is tough stuff. my son now seems to eat and gravitate towards the stuff that helps him ( he loves things like chili and black beans and rice, but avoids cheese) But really the best thing you can do is relax and listen with all of your senses to what your boys are telling you.
And one more thing just for you to think about. My son has the most trouble when the environment becomes controlling. Certain members of our extended family being around will make it as we say in our house "crawl back up". They are not so supportive of our lifestyle, and my kids can feel it. If I start worrying and then start controlling the environment to assuage my worry, we really have a problem. Good luck! It is a hard road. But it gets softer. LOL!
Carla-Marie
Oh my goodness I can totally understand what your going through. My eldest son (now 11) started to get constipated from a very early age. He also went from eating most things to eating a very restricted diet of his own choosing. He would get very frustrated & upset - banging his head, hiding away, constantly irritable. All perfectly understandable when your in pain. Most of the medicines we tried didn't work apart from suppositories & my doctors had very little to offer in the way of advice apart from 'he needs to drink more water' or 'he needs to eat more fruit & veg'. I already knew this but couldn't get him to take them in any form. I used to get so so stressed out & worried about it as most parents would. Everyone else was keen to offer 'advice' about what I should do & believe me I anxiously tried everything trying to make my little boy 'better'. The difficulty is that once your child associates pain with passing a stool it then becomes a psychological problem too which takes a very long time to heal.
As I say, nothing worked until I eventually out of desperation asked to be referred to a specialist at the hospital. They gave me a new medicine called Movicol - a tasteless powder which softens the stools & can be mixed in with any drink (even fizzy stuff!) He was initially on x8 sachets a day which he took throughout the day whilst we got the situation under control but now he only needs x1 a day. I stopped worrying about the food issue completley and very gradually as he's got older he's started eating better by his own choosing. I now say 'we're going to be really healthy today so what healthy food could I buy that you might be able to eat?' - this way he feels he has some control over it.
Sorry for rambling on its just that I know how worrying & frustrating it is & how helpless you must be feeling. I just want you to know that this is more common than you might realise & hopefully as he gets older things will improve. In my experience things didn't improve until I personally became more relaxed and accepting of the situation as something that I personally couldn't change but could instead help my son to manage & deal with. I hope my son will get better eventually (Doctors say he will 'grow out of it') but I have come to realise that this may be something he will always have a problem with.
Good luck & lots of hugs xx
Sent from: Have A Lovely Day X
-------- Original message --------
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Fear, withholding, mucking it up, figuring it out
From: lisajceledon <lisajceledon@...>
To: [email protected]
CC:
<<Ideas should make sense to you before you change anything in your life. Some ideas only make sense when you try them out. It's a paradox. People need to hurry and unschool without rushing in to it. People can't wait forever, or it's too late. But if they move too far too fast, it can make a mess.>>
I moved too far too fast and made a mess. I think fear can make people do that. I think I've been too fearful, immature perhaps- to do much (reading, waiting, watching) just *a little.*
My boys are young, 3.5 and 20 months. I have misunderstood a lot about unschooling previously, including how much less useful it is to think in terms of 'unschooling' my toddlers than it is to think about building a relationship with them based on trust and partnership. I got carried away with trying to 'do it right' and I totally lost perspective.
That's where I'm starting from today, and I'm writing with a specific issue on my mind that I want some help with sorting out what really matters as I move forward.
Since about 14 months, my youngest has had a few health issues: tooth decay, constipation, and 'picky' eating. As in, he went from eating pretty much anything to eating almost nothing we offered (he would eat cheerios or crackers or similar things if my older child left them out and he found them).
My older child has not had his food choices restricted since I first started reading about unschooling. I had planned on letting my youngest lead the way on solids, but looking back, I realize I was often anxious about what he ate, and in fact did not let him eat solids even when he wanted them until he was almost 8 months (I told myself I was worried about the impact it would have on my milk supply, but as I said, retrospectively I realize that didn't make much sense, and was certainly not supported by anything I told myself I believed about children making choices and my biology being capable of adjusting to them).
By 14 months we noticed the tooth decay, and also that he was having difficulty passing stools. He has tongue tie and lip tie, and we've recently learn that this could have been contributing to both issues, but I had never looked into it or made the connection, since I'd never had any pain while nursing (and in fact had read nothing about it until about a week ago).
I began to restrict his foods, first cutting wheat products and refined sugar from his diet and mine. I got very caught up in reading WAY TOO MUCH about tooth decay in infants, about constipation, food sensitivities, etc etc - I overloaded myself with information from various sources and instead of taking the time to sort out what I'd read, try things, wait, and watch, I continued to read and read and worry and worry, stress about what my toddler *was* eating (he was still able to find stray cheerios and crackers left by his brother), and stress about what he *wouldn't* eat (any of the things I was offering to help his constipation and tooth decay). I stressed about him not pooping. I told his brother not to offer him food. I kept offering what I wanted him to eat, again if he refused, ignoring his refusals, putting a little in his mouth anyway. Then I found that if I left him the spoon he'd eat some things on his own, some of the time. That wasn't enough to ease my fear. I pushed some more.
My toddler refused to eat more and more, and began nursing a LOT instead. I spent a lot of time focused on this giant problem I couldn't solve, and very little time focusing on my relationship with my boys.
My toddler began tantruming often when he had gone a few days without pooping. He bangs his head on walls and tables and the floor, throws himself backward, smacks/kicks -- and is set off by loud or angry voices, and when he feels the urge to poop. My three year old has become (understandably) frustrated and angry with not having my attention, and with being constantly told not to yell or shout to prevent my toddler from freaking out. He's too heavy to carry around with me now while I nurse him (which is happening for much of the day), and frankly my attitude about it has sucked. "I can't play with you right now, I'm nursing your brother." I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it. I continued to read read read read more and more about constipation (including what I could find on the issue on this list in the archives), tooth decay, diet, etc etc, continued to stress, and continued to worry about nothing working for my son. I followed advice like force-feeding him when he refused to eat or take anything to relieve the constipation. I was anxious and it felt easy to justify it as something I *had* to do to help him (please note that this is not something I am trying to justify - I now see that there was no necessity that justified the damage it did).
After he became impacted for the second time, I took the advice of the pediatrician, which I hadn't wanted to do at first, which was do a miralax clean out (I had been reading reading reading about all the possible negative consequences about using miralax and was scared to use it) and liquid suppositories.
It didn't work like they wanted it to, and after a week and a half of follow up calls and dose adjusting and everyone (me, my husband, the pediatricians) stressing about getting enough miralax and fluids into him, it was obvious that the impaction was too big for him to pass, even when a suppository forced him to bear down on it. The pediatrician said she didn't know what to tell me, that she'd never had miralax not work, so keep doing what we were doing and if he got sick, take him to the ER.
A nurse friend suggested I use my finger to help break the impaction up as it came out, which is what ended up working. He pooped comfortably for a few days afterward, that was about two weeks ago. He is back to holding it, not eating, completely refusing the miralax or any liquids we offer him, and most foods (though nursing a ton). I have given him a suppository twice, both times he hadn't pooped for a few days, was starting to get really cranky, uncomfortable, upset with having the urge to go, tantruming, hitting me and his brother-- basically in distress. The suppository works instantly for him, he poops a bunch, it's over within ten minutes, and he is happy for the rest of the day. He eats a little (as long as we don't actually offer it, and he makes the choice to eat it on his own). happy the next day, and then by the third day it starts to go downhill again. I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. I left a message this morning for my pediatrician asking what she advises now.
I am writing to this group, because I have recently come to the realization of how my attitudes and controlling/fearful approach to this issue have really done some damage to my relationship with both my kids. I was NOT living by the principles I want to live by: trust, respect, compassion -- and though I knew enough to realize that my actions would have a negative impact on my relationship with my kids, and could see how unhappy, stressed, etc, everyone was, I didn't understand how to do it differently.
I came to this realization two days ago while I was writing out yet another plea for advice on various parenting forums/lists I go to. I realized I would probably get the same advice I'd been getting (try water, probiotics, oils, prunes, miralax, etc). That advice was NOT WORKING. It didn't matter what he ate or drank or didn't eat or drink. He still wouldn't poop. He holds it. He's afraid. He will not eat or drink what I offer him. My son does not trust what I offer him. I don't blame him.
I want to do it differently. Yesterday I gave him a suppository because he had been tantruming most of the morning. I could tell my older son was starting to get really frustrated with me being repeatedly distracted.
He pooped. He 'sang' while he finished (he babbles conversationally but has no words yet), he spent the rest of the day playing with me, with his brother, playing on his own while I played with his brother, watching a movie with his brother while I got some housework done (the first I've gotten done in weeks), and happily munching away on O's and peanut butter puffs (which he hasn't been allowed for some time). He finished a cupcake his brother didn't want. He ate out of my chili bowl at dinner (but left his yogurt untouched- mixing oils with cultured coconut yogurt was one of the few ways we could get him to take it willingly. Not as of a few days ago. Won't touch it. I put it away without a word.)
It was such a peaceful, happy, fun day after that.
I want to focus on repairing my relationship with my boys. I want to earn their trust back. I want to trust them, I want to trust myself. I also want to support my toddler's colon while it heals from being stretched by the impaction. I want to support his healing process without trying to control him. I want to be responsible. I know I can do all those things together. I think I need help seeing how I might go about finding that balance.
Thank you for reading.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As I say, nothing worked until I eventually out of desperation asked to be referred to a specialist at the hospital. They gave me a new medicine called Movicol - a tasteless powder which softens the stools & can be mixed in with any drink (even fizzy stuff!) He was initially on x8 sachets a day which he took throughout the day whilst we got the situation under control but now he only needs x1 a day. I stopped worrying about the food issue completley and very gradually as he's got older he's started eating better by his own choosing. I now say 'we're going to be really healthy today so what healthy food could I buy that you might be able to eat?' - this way he feels he has some control over it.
Sorry for rambling on its just that I know how worrying & frustrating it is & how helpless you must be feeling. I just want you to know that this is more common than you might realise & hopefully as he gets older things will improve. In my experience things didn't improve until I personally became more relaxed and accepting of the situation as something that I personally couldn't change but could instead help my son to manage & deal with. I hope my son will get better eventually (Doctors say he will 'grow out of it') but I have come to realise that this may be something he will always have a problem with.
Good luck & lots of hugs xx
Sent from: Have A Lovely Day X
-------- Original message --------
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Fear, withholding, mucking it up, figuring it out
From: lisajceledon <lisajceledon@...>
To: [email protected]
CC:
<<Ideas should make sense to you before you change anything in your life. Some ideas only make sense when you try them out. It's a paradox. People need to hurry and unschool without rushing in to it. People can't wait forever, or it's too late. But if they move too far too fast, it can make a mess.>>
I moved too far too fast and made a mess. I think fear can make people do that. I think I've been too fearful, immature perhaps- to do much (reading, waiting, watching) just *a little.*
My boys are young, 3.5 and 20 months. I have misunderstood a lot about unschooling previously, including how much less useful it is to think in terms of 'unschooling' my toddlers than it is to think about building a relationship with them based on trust and partnership. I got carried away with trying to 'do it right' and I totally lost perspective.
That's where I'm starting from today, and I'm writing with a specific issue on my mind that I want some help with sorting out what really matters as I move forward.
Since about 14 months, my youngest has had a few health issues: tooth decay, constipation, and 'picky' eating. As in, he went from eating pretty much anything to eating almost nothing we offered (he would eat cheerios or crackers or similar things if my older child left them out and he found them).
My older child has not had his food choices restricted since I first started reading about unschooling. I had planned on letting my youngest lead the way on solids, but looking back, I realize I was often anxious about what he ate, and in fact did not let him eat solids even when he wanted them until he was almost 8 months (I told myself I was worried about the impact it would have on my milk supply, but as I said, retrospectively I realize that didn't make much sense, and was certainly not supported by anything I told myself I believed about children making choices and my biology being capable of adjusting to them).
By 14 months we noticed the tooth decay, and also that he was having difficulty passing stools. He has tongue tie and lip tie, and we've recently learn that this could have been contributing to both issues, but I had never looked into it or made the connection, since I'd never had any pain while nursing (and in fact had read nothing about it until about a week ago).
I began to restrict his foods, first cutting wheat products and refined sugar from his diet and mine. I got very caught up in reading WAY TOO MUCH about tooth decay in infants, about constipation, food sensitivities, etc etc - I overloaded myself with information from various sources and instead of taking the time to sort out what I'd read, try things, wait, and watch, I continued to read and read and worry and worry, stress about what my toddler *was* eating (he was still able to find stray cheerios and crackers left by his brother), and stress about what he *wouldn't* eat (any of the things I was offering to help his constipation and tooth decay). I stressed about him not pooping. I told his brother not to offer him food. I kept offering what I wanted him to eat, again if he refused, ignoring his refusals, putting a little in his mouth anyway. Then I found that if I left him the spoon he'd eat some things on his own, some of the time. That wasn't enough to ease my fear. I pushed some more.
My toddler refused to eat more and more, and began nursing a LOT instead. I spent a lot of time focused on this giant problem I couldn't solve, and very little time focusing on my relationship with my boys.
My toddler began tantruming often when he had gone a few days without pooping. He bangs his head on walls and tables and the floor, throws himself backward, smacks/kicks -- and is set off by loud or angry voices, and when he feels the urge to poop. My three year old has become (understandably) frustrated and angry with not having my attention, and with being constantly told not to yell or shout to prevent my toddler from freaking out. He's too heavy to carry around with me now while I nurse him (which is happening for much of the day), and frankly my attitude about it has sucked. "I can't play with you right now, I'm nursing your brother." I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it. I continued to read read read read more and more about constipation (including what I could find on the issue on this list in the archives), tooth decay, diet, etc etc, continued to stress, and continued to worry about nothing working for my son. I followed advice like force-feeding him when he refused to eat or take anything to relieve the constipation. I was anxious and it felt easy to justify it as something I *had* to do to help him (please note that this is not something I am trying to justify - I now see that there was no necessity that justified the damage it did).
After he became impacted for the second time, I took the advice of the pediatrician, which I hadn't wanted to do at first, which was do a miralax clean out (I had been reading reading reading about all the possible negative consequences about using miralax and was scared to use it) and liquid suppositories.
It didn't work like they wanted it to, and after a week and a half of follow up calls and dose adjusting and everyone (me, my husband, the pediatricians) stressing about getting enough miralax and fluids into him, it was obvious that the impaction was too big for him to pass, even when a suppository forced him to bear down on it. The pediatrician said she didn't know what to tell me, that she'd never had miralax not work, so keep doing what we were doing and if he got sick, take him to the ER.
A nurse friend suggested I use my finger to help break the impaction up as it came out, which is what ended up working. He pooped comfortably for a few days afterward, that was about two weeks ago. He is back to holding it, not eating, completely refusing the miralax or any liquids we offer him, and most foods (though nursing a ton). I have given him a suppository twice, both times he hadn't pooped for a few days, was starting to get really cranky, uncomfortable, upset with having the urge to go, tantruming, hitting me and his brother-- basically in distress. The suppository works instantly for him, he poops a bunch, it's over within ten minutes, and he is happy for the rest of the day. He eats a little (as long as we don't actually offer it, and he makes the choice to eat it on his own). happy the next day, and then by the third day it starts to go downhill again. I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. I left a message this morning for my pediatrician asking what she advises now.
I am writing to this group, because I have recently come to the realization of how my attitudes and controlling/fearful approach to this issue have really done some damage to my relationship with both my kids. I was NOT living by the principles I want to live by: trust, respect, compassion -- and though I knew enough to realize that my actions would have a negative impact on my relationship with my kids, and could see how unhappy, stressed, etc, everyone was, I didn't understand how to do it differently.
I came to this realization two days ago while I was writing out yet another plea for advice on various parenting forums/lists I go to. I realized I would probably get the same advice I'd been getting (try water, probiotics, oils, prunes, miralax, etc). That advice was NOT WORKING. It didn't matter what he ate or drank or didn't eat or drink. He still wouldn't poop. He holds it. He's afraid. He will not eat or drink what I offer him. My son does not trust what I offer him. I don't blame him.
I want to do it differently. Yesterday I gave him a suppository because he had been tantruming most of the morning. I could tell my older son was starting to get really frustrated with me being repeatedly distracted.
He pooped. He 'sang' while he finished (he babbles conversationally but has no words yet), he spent the rest of the day playing with me, with his brother, playing on his own while I played with his brother, watching a movie with his brother while I got some housework done (the first I've gotten done in weeks), and happily munching away on O's and peanut butter puffs (which he hasn't been allowed for some time). He finished a cupcake his brother didn't want. He ate out of my chili bowl at dinner (but left his yogurt untouched- mixing oils with cultured coconut yogurt was one of the few ways we could get him to take it willingly. Not as of a few days ago. Won't touch it. I put it away without a word.)
It was such a peaceful, happy, fun day after that.
I want to focus on repairing my relationship with my boys. I want to earn their trust back. I want to trust them, I want to trust myself. I also want to support my toddler's colon while it heals from being stretched by the impaction. I want to support his healing process without trying to control him. I want to be responsible. I know I can do all those things together. I think I need help seeing how I might go about finding that balance.
Thank you for reading.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That's where I'm starting from today, and I'm writing with a specific issue on my mind that I want some help with sorting out what really matters as I move forward.-=-
It can be hard to figure out yahoogroups, but when changing the subject, back out and begin a new topic. Even though you changed the subject line, it's still going to be under "integrity" in the archives.
New subjects should be started as new subjects. Next time. Thanks.
-=- I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it-=-
http://sandradodd.com/abundance
http://sandradodd.com/gratitude
Even as you're writing about these things, there's too much detail, too much about poop. :-) Too much focus on the physical result, and not enough breathing and coming back to the potentially-more-peaceful right now.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
-=-I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. -=-
And? So? When he's older, he will be able to think about it in more analytical ways. If his health and peace (and the peace of your family) are better now because of that, then use that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It can be hard to figure out yahoogroups, but when changing the subject, back out and begin a new topic. Even though you changed the subject line, it's still going to be under "integrity" in the archives.
New subjects should be started as new subjects. Next time. Thanks.
-=- I've let myself get into a cycle of feeling drained, unavailable, and overburdened and NO ONE is happy about it-=-
http://sandradodd.com/abundance
http://sandradodd.com/gratitude
Even as you're writing about these things, there's too much detail, too much about poop. :-) Too much focus on the physical result, and not enough breathing and coming back to the potentially-more-peaceful right now.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
-=-I'm afraid to use them too much because I read (again read read read) that using them too often will make him dependent on them to have a bowel movement. -=-
And? So? When he's older, he will be able to think about it in more analytical ways. If his health and peace (and the peace of your family) are better now because of that, then use that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- When he begins to become uncomfortable, you have to get more relaxed. -=-
"Have to" is not a "have to."
Beware of saying, writing, or even thinking "have to."
Every action should be a choice. After that starts to become natural, move to your words being choices. (And typing out words and posting them is an action, more than a statement.) Then move to thoughts.
No one "has to" do anything, but it's good for us to look at what people can choose to do.
It might seem I've changed the subject or gone an odd angle, but stick around the group and read more, and you will see why it's important.
I think a relaxed atmosphere and a soft mom will lead to softer stools, definitely, though. :-) The point is good, but present it with reasoning, not as a "have to."
It's good to remember to be a child's partner, so that you're both facing the same way instead of having a head-to-head struggle. I like this point:
-=- my son now seems to eat and gravitate towards the stuff that helps him ( he loves things like chili and black beans and rice, but avoids cheese)--=-
I saw that with my oldest, who had impaction problems. When he knew what foods really did help and which didn't, he was able to choose calmly and thoughtfully. But when others were saying "EAT THIS" in a scary sort of way, or "you have to eat this," then he was a winner if he resisted, and a loser if he ate what people were "making" him eat.
Some children, oddly, in wanting to be winners and to have some control, will not poo. Kirby said, when he was four or so (Sorry I don't know the exact age anymore), that he wished poop had never been invented. There was an aversion and he wanted to deny its existence.
When a child has that problem AND there are adults seeming alarmed and angry and shaming and frightening, it's surely overwhelming.
So yes, about finding calm, and choosing to see the child differently!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Have to" is not a "have to."
Beware of saying, writing, or even thinking "have to."
Every action should be a choice. After that starts to become natural, move to your words being choices. (And typing out words and posting them is an action, more than a statement.) Then move to thoughts.
No one "has to" do anything, but it's good for us to look at what people can choose to do.
It might seem I've changed the subject or gone an odd angle, but stick around the group and read more, and you will see why it's important.
I think a relaxed atmosphere and a soft mom will lead to softer stools, definitely, though. :-) The point is good, but present it with reasoning, not as a "have to."
It's good to remember to be a child's partner, so that you're both facing the same way instead of having a head-to-head struggle. I like this point:
-=- my son now seems to eat and gravitate towards the stuff that helps him ( he loves things like chili and black beans and rice, but avoids cheese)--=-
I saw that with my oldest, who had impaction problems. When he knew what foods really did help and which didn't, he was able to choose calmly and thoughtfully. But when others were saying "EAT THIS" in a scary sort of way, or "you have to eat this," then he was a winner if he resisted, and a loser if he ate what people were "making" him eat.
Some children, oddly, in wanting to be winners and to have some control, will not poo. Kirby said, when he was four or so (Sorry I don't know the exact age anymore), that he wished poop had never been invented. There was an aversion and he wanted to deny its existence.
When a child has that problem AND there are adults seeming alarmed and angry and shaming and frightening, it's surely overwhelming.
So yes, about finding calm, and choosing to see the child differently!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aza
Yes, thank you. Because in fact "have to" sets up more worry (at least for me it does). It is a trap that I still fall into as an adult in the world. I HAVE to do whatever. My son developed such an aversion to poop, he told me at one point that he would rather vomit than poop. He is the only 7 yr old boy I know that does not enjoy toilet humor!
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- When he begins to become uncomfortable, you have to get more relaxed. -=-
>
> "Have to" is not a "have to."
> Beware of saying, writing, or even thinking "have to."
>
> Every action should be a choice. After that starts to become natural, move to your words being choices. (And typing out words and posting them is an action, more than a statement.) Then move to thoughts.
>
> No one "has to" do anything, but it's good for us to look at what people can choose to do.
>
> It might seem I've changed the subject or gone an odd angle, but stick around the group and read more, and you will see why it's important.
>
> I think a relaxed atmosphere and a soft mom will lead to softer stools, definitely, though. :-) The point is good, but present it with reasoning, not as a "have to."
>
> It's good to remember to be a child's partner, so that you're both facing the same way instead of having a head-to-head struggle. I like this point:
>
> -=- my son now seems to eat and gravitate towards the stuff that helps him ( he loves things like chili and black beans and rice, but avoids cheese)--=-
>
> I saw that with my oldest, who had impaction problems. When he knew what foods really did help and which didn't, he was able to choose calmly and thoughtfully. But when others were saying "EAT THIS" in a scary sort of way, or "you have to eat this," then he was a winner if he resisted, and a loser if he ate what people were "making" him eat.
>
> Some children, oddly, in wanting to be winners and to have some control, will not poo. Kirby said, when he was four or so (Sorry I don't know the exact age anymore), that he wished poop had never been invented. There was an aversion and he wanted to deny its existence.
>
> When a child has that problem AND there are adults seeming alarmed and angry and shaming and frightening, it's surely overwhelming.
>
> So yes, about finding calm, and choosing to see the child differently!
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
"lisajceledon" <lisajceledon@...> wrote:
Do sweet things for your other son, too. If you're married, do some things and give some attention to your spouse. Take all the tightly wound energy you've been directing at your little guy and spread it around so everyone can feel cared for, including yourself, And your little guy can have a chance to breathe.
---Meredith
> My son does not trust what I offer him. I don't blame him.Phew, it took a lot of words to get to that! That's important. Building trust is not going to happen overnight, so the most important thing you can do is find ways to relax. The more tense out you are, the more he's going to tense up too. What helps You relax? For that matter, what sorts of things can you do in general to take care of yourself? You've been focusing really really hard on your son, and it may feel a lot like being under a spotlight... or a microscope. So actively shift your attention to other things both to take some of the pressure off him and to give yourself a chance to "come off the ceiling" as they say.
Do sweet things for your other son, too. If you're married, do some things and give some attention to your spouse. Take all the tightly wound energy you've been directing at your little guy and spread it around so everyone can feel cared for, including yourself, And your little guy can have a chance to breathe.
---Meredith
Pam Sorooshian
I just accidentally approved a really long medical post with a lot of posts
attached.
Please move on and stop talking about the medical stuff - this is really
not a good place for that and those who have these issues will know how to
find places for those discussions.
Also - please please cut off the appended extra posts. ONLY include the
parts that are necessary for your response to make sense.
Sorry I messed up.
-Pam Sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
attached.
Please move on and stop talking about the medical stuff - this is really
not a good place for that and those who have these issues will know how to
find places for those discussions.
Also - please please cut off the appended extra posts. ONLY include the
parts that are necessary for your response to make sense.
Sorry I messed up.
-Pam Sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alma
--- In [email protected], Carla-Marie <carlamarie_33@...> wrote:
...In my experience things didn't improve until I personally became more relaxed and accepting of the situation as something that I personally couldn't change but could instead help my son to manage & deal with. I hope my son will get better eventually (Doctors say he will 'grow out of it') but I have come to realise that this may be something he will always have a problem with.
-=-=-=-
People can be fearful of medical interventions like this, and search for natural solution after alternative solution time after time. But if a medicine frees you from a tense, stressful, controlling, fear-inducing relationship with your child then it may be a great solution. I have two sons on long term movicol, one since breastfed babyhood. I am alert to ways to improve their diets but in a calm and fun way rather than a stressed out, this-is-going-to-hurt-if-you-don't way.
Alison
>... As I say, nothing worked until I eventually out of desperation asked to be referred to a specialist at the hospital. They gave me a new medicine called Movicol ... I stopped worrying about the food issue completley ....
...In my experience things didn't improve until I personally became more relaxed and accepting of the situation as something that I personally couldn't change but could instead help my son to manage & deal with. I hope my son will get better eventually (Doctors say he will 'grow out of it') but I have come to realise that this may be something he will always have a problem with.
-=-=-=-
People can be fearful of medical interventions like this, and search for natural solution after alternative solution time after time. But if a medicine frees you from a tense, stressful, controlling, fear-inducing relationship with your child then it may be a great solution. I have two sons on long term movicol, one since breastfed babyhood. I am alert to ways to improve their diets but in a calm and fun way rather than a stressed out, this-is-going-to-hurt-if-you-don't way.
Alison
Lisa Celedon
<<I now say 'we' re going to be really healthy today so what healthy food could I buy that you might be able to eat?' - this way he feels he has some control over it. >>
I don't know, I feel like that idea of 'we're going to be healthy today' sets a bad tone. Are we not healthy other days? Are there days where health is less important? Where eating 'healthy' is less important? I think it makes eating more confusing and loaded with issues that make it less than enjoyable.
I think part of my own problem is that I'm anxious over all these designations of food being 'healthy' or 'unhealthy,' or this food is 'good' and this food is 'bad.'
And when it comes to myself, if I am interested in learning about what kinds of foods are beneficial for certain aspects of my health (like if I want to remineralize my own teeth, instead of going to the dentist), and I can learn it and apply it with enthusiasm or joy or any kind of positive emotion, then fine, that's good. But my children may not have the same interest or enthusiasm, and certainly have their own health and bodily needs they are trying to meet that I may not even be aware of.
The topic of food is pretty well covered in the archives and on Sandra's unschooling site, so I won't continue.
I was not looking for a medical discussion, I apologize. As it was pointed out, it took me a LONG time and focus on the medical issues to get to what I wanted to get at- the relationship issues. I was obviously having trouble seeing past all the crap.
I needed help that would bring me back to peace and joy and focusing on my relationship with my kids, and the links to the page on gratitude and abundance, and the comments suggesting I focus on other things (not the poop) were very helpful.
So I have been able to relax about my toddler trying whatever foods interest him without worrying about how they will effect his digestion. I offer foods that I think will help, but don't push it. I've left some cups with various liquids and manner of drinking them around for him to try if he'd like. I let him dig around in the fridge and pull things out to eat or play with and don't feel like I need to hide the bag of shredded cheese, or worried that he'll find it anyway. And I'm figuring out how often he needs a suppository to stay comfortable.
The first day of being able to relax about foods affecting him, he ate a bunch of peanut butter puff cereal, something he wasn't allowed to have previously because I had been told the peanut butter was binding and the grains (and peanut butter) were bad for his tooth decay. I gave him a small bowlful and he ran with it to his favorite spot on the couch and was very content with that for a good half hour while my older son and I played together. He ate a LOT of them that day, and then on the next day, while he kept gesturing for them, he'd eat only a few, then spit them out. Yesterday he didn't ask for them at all and didn't touch them though they were out on the table most of the day.
Anyway, it wouldn't matter if he had continued to eat them. But it was helpful to see that he's choosing not to eat them. That if they really aren't 'good' for him, (they upset his digestion, or whatever), he will avoid them of his own choice, if given a choice. He's done that with most of the dry, processed-grain based foods over the last few days that I had previously been denying him access to. I feel better, and he feels better. I can trust him, and he can trust himself, and me, when I let him make those choices, instead of fretting and worrying and making them for him. I can read lots of information about food and nutrition, but I can't feel what's happening in his body. I can't know exactly what his body needs or doesn't need.
I so needed that reminder. And again, the pages about gratitude and abundance-- it's really helped me shift my thinking, gain some perspective, and focus on what really matters -- my little boys having a relaxed, happy mom to partner with, not a stressed, worried, controlling one to avoid.
Thank you so much.
Lisa C
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know, I feel like that idea of 'we're going to be healthy today' sets a bad tone. Are we not healthy other days? Are there days where health is less important? Where eating 'healthy' is less important? I think it makes eating more confusing and loaded with issues that make it less than enjoyable.
I think part of my own problem is that I'm anxious over all these designations of food being 'healthy' or 'unhealthy,' or this food is 'good' and this food is 'bad.'
And when it comes to myself, if I am interested in learning about what kinds of foods are beneficial for certain aspects of my health (like if I want to remineralize my own teeth, instead of going to the dentist), and I can learn it and apply it with enthusiasm or joy or any kind of positive emotion, then fine, that's good. But my children may not have the same interest or enthusiasm, and certainly have their own health and bodily needs they are trying to meet that I may not even be aware of.
The topic of food is pretty well covered in the archives and on Sandra's unschooling site, so I won't continue.
I was not looking for a medical discussion, I apologize. As it was pointed out, it took me a LONG time and focus on the medical issues to get to what I wanted to get at- the relationship issues. I was obviously having trouble seeing past all the crap.
I needed help that would bring me back to peace and joy and focusing on my relationship with my kids, and the links to the page on gratitude and abundance, and the comments suggesting I focus on other things (not the poop) were very helpful.
So I have been able to relax about my toddler trying whatever foods interest him without worrying about how they will effect his digestion. I offer foods that I think will help, but don't push it. I've left some cups with various liquids and manner of drinking them around for him to try if he'd like. I let him dig around in the fridge and pull things out to eat or play with and don't feel like I need to hide the bag of shredded cheese, or worried that he'll find it anyway. And I'm figuring out how often he needs a suppository to stay comfortable.
The first day of being able to relax about foods affecting him, he ate a bunch of peanut butter puff cereal, something he wasn't allowed to have previously because I had been told the peanut butter was binding and the grains (and peanut butter) were bad for his tooth decay. I gave him a small bowlful and he ran with it to his favorite spot on the couch and was very content with that for a good half hour while my older son and I played together. He ate a LOT of them that day, and then on the next day, while he kept gesturing for them, he'd eat only a few, then spit them out. Yesterday he didn't ask for them at all and didn't touch them though they were out on the table most of the day.
Anyway, it wouldn't matter if he had continued to eat them. But it was helpful to see that he's choosing not to eat them. That if they really aren't 'good' for him, (they upset his digestion, or whatever), he will avoid them of his own choice, if given a choice. He's done that with most of the dry, processed-grain based foods over the last few days that I had previously been denying him access to. I feel better, and he feels better. I can trust him, and he can trust himself, and me, when I let him make those choices, instead of fretting and worrying and making them for him. I can read lots of information about food and nutrition, but I can't feel what's happening in his body. I can't know exactly what his body needs or doesn't need.
I so needed that reminder. And again, the pages about gratitude and abundance-- it's really helped me shift my thinking, gain some perspective, and focus on what really matters -- my little boys having a relaxed, happy mom to partner with, not a stressed, worried, controlling one to avoid.
Thank you so much.
Lisa C
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]