How to Deal with Highly Structured Periods of Time
Katie Oxford
I was hoping to find some suggestions or advice on how to deal with times in
life where activities and schedules are highly (and rigidly) structured and
the kids' choices are limited.
I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in
town here. I've owned this business since my littlest was in utero, and for
the most part my kids love being there with me and it's always been a part
of their life. However, now that our family is venturing into unschooling, I
was curious how others had dealt with situations where you just can't give
the kids what they would like (for an extended period of time) and some form
of schedule is required of them (like when to get up in the morning). My
husband works so they have to come with me because they are too young to
stay home alone (ages 7, 9, and 10). During those 8 days we are in a huge
warehouse-type building from 8am until usually 10pm or so. During this time
they only have limited access to foods they like (I'm responsible for
feeding large groups of people and have volunteers pick up prearranged meals
and deliver them, because I can't even leave during the day). There's no
internet connection, no video games, no comfy bed or couch, and
unfortunately not much access to me during the hours we're there for the
week of the show.
I bring air mattresses and snacks as much as I can to make sure they're
comfortable, but needs are hard to predict or plan for. Now that they're old
enough, they can help a little and get involved in running the event, but
they do end up miserable now and then and want and need things that I just
can't give them while I'm there.
Have any of you dealt with something like this? Do you just explain it as a
'season' and make the best you can of it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
life where activities and schedules are highly (and rigidly) structured and
the kids' choices are limited.
I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in
town here. I've owned this business since my littlest was in utero, and for
the most part my kids love being there with me and it's always been a part
of their life. However, now that our family is venturing into unschooling, I
was curious how others had dealt with situations where you just can't give
the kids what they would like (for an extended period of time) and some form
of schedule is required of them (like when to get up in the morning). My
husband works so they have to come with me because they are too young to
stay home alone (ages 7, 9, and 10). During those 8 days we are in a huge
warehouse-type building from 8am until usually 10pm or so. During this time
they only have limited access to foods they like (I'm responsible for
feeding large groups of people and have volunteers pick up prearranged meals
and deliver them, because I can't even leave during the day). There's no
internet connection, no video games, no comfy bed or couch, and
unfortunately not much access to me during the hours we're there for the
week of the show.
I bring air mattresses and snacks as much as I can to make sure they're
comfortable, but needs are hard to predict or plan for. Now that they're old
enough, they can help a little and get involved in running the event, but
they do end up miserable now and then and want and need things that I just
can't give them while I'm there.
Have any of you dealt with something like this? Do you just explain it as a
'season' and make the best you can of it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 17, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Katie Oxford wrote:
The key is recognizing where you have power and where you don't. The key is to lend your children your power. Your power to manipulate the world to get what you/they want. Your power to draw on a lifetime of knowledge about how the world works and what's available. Your power to to recognizing when you're creating limitations and erecting barriers because it's easier to inconvenience kids than to inconvenience yourself.
Involve your kids in planning what you can around the limitations. Rather than saying to the effect "That's just the way it is," which can feel disempowering, see each part you can't control as natural as the sun setting. How do you plan a picnic if the sun insists on setting at 7? ;-)
What power to change your environment do you have? Can you bring food? Toys? A tent for them to rest and play in? Do you have tablet computers with apps on them that don't need the internet?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I was curious how others had dealt with situations where you just can't giveHow do you deal with the sun setting each evening and not coming back up until dawn?
> the kids what they would like (for an extended period of time) and some form
> of schedule is required of them (like when to get up in the morning).
The key is recognizing where you have power and where you don't. The key is to lend your children your power. Your power to manipulate the world to get what you/they want. Your power to draw on a lifetime of knowledge about how the world works and what's available. Your power to to recognizing when you're creating limitations and erecting barriers because it's easier to inconvenience kids than to inconvenience yourself.
> Have any of you dealt with something like this? Do you just explain it as a"Just explain" suggests there will then be "just acceptance" on their part. People who are easy going or feel powerless are likely to go with what life throws at them. But if you'd like your kids to feel empowered, then they need to see you actively tackling problems rather than projecting a sense of helplessness and powerlessness.
> 'season' and make the best you can of it?
Involve your kids in planning what you can around the limitations. Rather than saying to the effect "That's just the way it is," which can feel disempowering, see each part you can't control as natural as the sun setting. How do you plan a picnic if the sun insists on setting at 7? ;-)
What power to change your environment do you have? Can you bring food? Toys? A tent for them to rest and play in? Do you have tablet computers with apps on them that don't need the internet?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ehulani56
Now that they're old
They might also want to be there with you for most of the time; in that case you could arrange for someone to take them away to the zoo or the science center or whatever you have nearby that's fun for them.
It seems a little like *you* feel you have no choice but to take them with you. If you think of some alternatives (even some pie-in-the-sky thing like sending them to Disneyland for the duration!), you might find your choices open up more.
Robin B.
> enough, they can help a little and get involved in running the event, butHave you asked them what they want to do? Perhaps they'd like to stay home with a sitter or with one of their friends' moms. You could arrange some outings with friends to break up the 8 days. Someone could bring them over to see you during a lull or when they need you.
> they do end up miserable now and then and want and need things that I just
> can't give them while I'm there.
They might also want to be there with you for most of the time; in that case you could arrange for someone to take them away to the zoo or the science center or whatever you have nearby that's fun for them.
It seems a little like *you* feel you have no choice but to take them with you. If you think of some alternatives (even some pie-in-the-sky thing like sending them to Disneyland for the duration!), you might find your choices open up more.
Robin B.
dezignarob
=== for the most part my kids love being there with me.....but
they do end up miserable now and then ===
I think those two ideas kinda seem like exact opposites, and I'm thinking that the very long hours in the days of the event are a good part of why.
Kids can be very good at making the best of things, especially when they feel they have no choice, until exhaustion/hunger/stress/boredom finally catches up with them. That can look like they "love" it at first but "end up" miserable. Do check that they really do love being there.
Also your kids are not a homogenous mass. Maybe some like it more than others. Maybe some are more miserable than others.
When I have a really long event, like a craft show, Jayn will often come along with me in the morning, but not stay the whole time. Is there a reason why Dad can't come by after work and collect them rather than have them there til 10pm? If he is working late shift hours, can he bring them over before he goes to work rather than have them start so early?
Robin got in first with pretty much the same practical suggestions I was going to make. Jayn has been picked up from events I was doing by her friends to go out with them rather than stay on at a dull grown up event too. Jayn also brings her hand held gaming device with her.
Some things are out of your/anyone's control, but that does not mean everything is so. It can be a residue of conventional parenting, to act as if many things are out of your control when the truth is that you are making choices. Sometimes it's a lot easier to tell children "that's how it has to be" than to do the mental gymnastics of finding other options.
There is some fuzzy all or nothing thinking going on. If this is your event, and you are organizing the food, surely you are not as helpless as you seem to feel about including items your kids like. Too long a day? If you are in charge make the day shorter. Too long a week? If you are the organizer, make the event fewer days. You don't have to defend your event to us - I'm just tossing ideas for different ways thinking about it, so that if you are thinking is "it has to be this way" - well maybe it doesn't.
You really do have the choice not to create this tradeshow, or continue to run it yourself. So seeing it AS a choice is the first step to seeing other choices and ways to be flexible and accommodating and facilitating for your kids.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
=== I was hoping to find some suggestions or advice on how to deal with times in life where activities and schedules are highly (and rigidly) structured and the kids' choices are limited.
I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in town here.====
they do end up miserable now and then ===
I think those two ideas kinda seem like exact opposites, and I'm thinking that the very long hours in the days of the event are a good part of why.
Kids can be very good at making the best of things, especially when they feel they have no choice, until exhaustion/hunger/stress/boredom finally catches up with them. That can look like they "love" it at first but "end up" miserable. Do check that they really do love being there.
Also your kids are not a homogenous mass. Maybe some like it more than others. Maybe some are more miserable than others.
When I have a really long event, like a craft show, Jayn will often come along with me in the morning, but not stay the whole time. Is there a reason why Dad can't come by after work and collect them rather than have them there til 10pm? If he is working late shift hours, can he bring them over before he goes to work rather than have them start so early?
Robin got in first with pretty much the same practical suggestions I was going to make. Jayn has been picked up from events I was doing by her friends to go out with them rather than stay on at a dull grown up event too. Jayn also brings her hand held gaming device with her.
Some things are out of your/anyone's control, but that does not mean everything is so. It can be a residue of conventional parenting, to act as if many things are out of your control when the truth is that you are making choices. Sometimes it's a lot easier to tell children "that's how it has to be" than to do the mental gymnastics of finding other options.
There is some fuzzy all or nothing thinking going on. If this is your event, and you are organizing the food, surely you are not as helpless as you seem to feel about including items your kids like. Too long a day? If you are in charge make the day shorter. Too long a week? If you are the organizer, make the event fewer days. You don't have to defend your event to us - I'm just tossing ideas for different ways thinking about it, so that if you are thinking is "it has to be this way" - well maybe it doesn't.
You really do have the choice not to create this tradeshow, or continue to run it yourself. So seeing it AS a choice is the first step to seeing other choices and ways to be flexible and accommodating and facilitating for your kids.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
=== I was hoping to find some suggestions or advice on how to deal with times in life where activities and schedules are highly (and rigidly) structured and the kids' choices are limited.
I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in town here.====
Jenny Cyphers
***I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in
town here. I've owned this business since my littlest was in utero, and for
the most part my kids love being there with me and it's always been a part
of their life.
During those 8 days we are in a huge
warehouse-type building from 8am until usually 10pm or so. During this time
they only have limited access to foods they like (I'm responsible for
feeding large groups of people and have volunteers pick up prearranged meals
and deliver them, because I can't even leave during the day).***
I wonder why you have never built into your trade show, a place for kids? If there are employees and volunteers, what do others do with their kids? Would it benefit the entire show to have a location for kids and people to volunteer or get paid to entertain all the kids? You might not be the only one involved in the show that has kids to contend with.
When we've done haunted house productions, there was one haunt that allowed people to bring their kids and they built, into the house, a private and secret location for all the kids to be, with video games and goodies and comforts all built in. There weren't always kids there, but on the nights when parents needed to have their kids with them, it was a great thing to have built in. The people who ran that haunted house made the decision to build that into the set design specifically for their own children.
When you run the show, you get to make these kinds of decisions.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
town here. I've owned this business since my littlest was in utero, and for
the most part my kids love being there with me and it's always been a part
of their life.
During those 8 days we are in a huge
warehouse-type building from 8am until usually 10pm or so. During this time
they only have limited access to foods they like (I'm responsible for
feeding large groups of people and have volunteers pick up prearranged meals
and deliver them, because I can't even leave during the day).***
I wonder why you have never built into your trade show, a place for kids? If there are employees and volunteers, what do others do with their kids? Would it benefit the entire show to have a location for kids and people to volunteer or get paid to entertain all the kids? You might not be the only one involved in the show that has kids to contend with.
When we've done haunted house productions, there was one haunt that allowed people to bring their kids and they built, into the house, a private and secret location for all the kids to be, with video games and goodies and comforts all built in. There weren't always kids there, but on the nights when parents needed to have their kids with them, it was a great thing to have built in. The people who ran that haunted house made the decision to build that into the set design specifically for their own children.
When you run the show, you get to make these kinds of decisions.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
That is a great idea Jenny! What about an area with chair and couches for the kids with a TV and VCR Nd movies!
Some table games , books and toys?
Maybe get together with people that are going to work/ volunteer and join resources and even pay someone to help with the kids or everyone volunteers some time ?
Maybe not from 8 AM until 10 PM but some hours?
It could benefit everyone involved!
Alex Polikowsky
Sent from my iPhone
Some table games , books and toys?
Maybe get together with people that are going to work/ volunteer and join resources and even pay someone to help with the kids or everyone volunteers some time ?
Maybe not from 8 AM until 10 PM but some hours?
It could benefit everyone involved!
Alex Polikowsky
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 18, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
> ***I own my own business where I put on a tradeshow of sorts twice a year in
> town here. I've owned this business since my littlest was in utero, and for
> the most part my kids love being there with me and it's always been a part
> of their life.
>
> During those 8 days we are in a huge
> warehouse-type building from 8am until usually 10pm or so. During this time
> they only have limited access to foods they like (I'm responsible for
> feeding large groups of people and have volunteers pick up prearranged meals
> and deliver them, because I can't even leave during the day).***
>
> I wonder why you have never built into your trade show, a place for kids? If there are employees and volunteers, what do others do with their kids? Would it benefit the entire show to have a location for kids and people to volunteer or get paid to entertain all the kids? You might not be the only one involved in the show that has kids to contend with.
>
> When we've done haunted house productions, there was one haunt that allowed people to bring their kids and they built, into the house, a private and secret location for all the kids to be, with video games and goodies and comforts all built in. There weren't always kids there, but on the nights when parents needed to have their kids with them, it was a great thing to have built in. The people who ran that haunted house made the decision to build that into the set design specifically for their own children.
>
> When you run the show, you get to make these kinds of decisions.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katie Oxford
After reading your insightful responses and thinking more about what I was really feeling, I realized that the title of this post should have been something like “Heaping loads of guilt on myself – how to make peace with the choices I’ve made when it inconveniences others”.
Being so busy leading up to the show means that I’ve said ‘no’ in the last couple of weeks more often than I’ve liked. I haven’t been near or with my kids as much as I usually am (meaning on my computer while they entertain themselves and get their own snacks, which they clearly don’t mind as much as I do). Guilt, guilt, guilt.
This poured out into hidden ‘have-to’ thoughts that I didn’t really realize I was having.
I do run everything about the show and I work hard to make it as comfortable as possible for everyone who is there with me: staff, family, volunteers and customers. My girls spent time yesterday making comfortable places to lie down out of plastic bags, rolled mats and beanbag chairs. They played their DS’s, had swordfights with some dowel rods, and my littlest ran up and down the hall with a tattered black garbage bag ‘cape’ tied around her neck, striking superhero poses.
My two older girls decided they’d like to work at the show because they would both like to buy a laptop. They already know how many hours each day they’ll have to work to earn enough money to buy one and spent time alternating between working and relaxing yesterday. My littlest realized that if both of her sisters were going to buy laptops, she would have our one ‘kids’ computer at home all to herself, so she figured out that she didn’t need to work at all (smart girl!), although she joined us when the jobs looked fun. We managed to get home before 9pm last night and I told all of the girls that they could relax and sleep in and wait until their dad gets up for work and he would drop them off at the hall today. They all insisted that they wanted to go with me first thing in the morning and begged me to wake them before I left (one even picked clothes out last night and had them in her bed with her).
Granted it wasn’t all peaches and roses yesterday. At times one wanted to go home, a couple of times they fought with each other, and a couple of them hurt themselves, but that would happen on a typical day here at home too. Clearly they’re not miserable, frustrated, and feeling neglected. During the day I help them as often as I can and work to keep our interactions calm and kind, even when I’m stressed. I love doing the show because it gives me a chance to exercise my analytical skills and problem solving on a massive scale. I also have always loved showing my kids that they can do anything they choose, big or small (they’ve watched the show grow tremendously over the years), and that hard work and treating others with respect can be very rewarding on many levels. They also know I’m working hard at this show to earn some extra money for our cross-country road trip next month so we can do more fun things along the way. And yet the guilt still nags that my choices impact their lives, even if it doesn’t seem like it bothers them nearly as much.
Looking for inner peace and calm >>Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Being so busy leading up to the show means that I’ve said ‘no’ in the last couple of weeks more often than I’ve liked. I haven’t been near or with my kids as much as I usually am (meaning on my computer while they entertain themselves and get their own snacks, which they clearly don’t mind as much as I do). Guilt, guilt, guilt.
This poured out into hidden ‘have-to’ thoughts that I didn’t really realize I was having.
I do run everything about the show and I work hard to make it as comfortable as possible for everyone who is there with me: staff, family, volunteers and customers. My girls spent time yesterday making comfortable places to lie down out of plastic bags, rolled mats and beanbag chairs. They played their DS’s, had swordfights with some dowel rods, and my littlest ran up and down the hall with a tattered black garbage bag ‘cape’ tied around her neck, striking superhero poses.
My two older girls decided they’d like to work at the show because they would both like to buy a laptop. They already know how many hours each day they’ll have to work to earn enough money to buy one and spent time alternating between working and relaxing yesterday. My littlest realized that if both of her sisters were going to buy laptops, she would have our one ‘kids’ computer at home all to herself, so she figured out that she didn’t need to work at all (smart girl!), although she joined us when the jobs looked fun. We managed to get home before 9pm last night and I told all of the girls that they could relax and sleep in and wait until their dad gets up for work and he would drop them off at the hall today. They all insisted that they wanted to go with me first thing in the morning and begged me to wake them before I left (one even picked clothes out last night and had them in her bed with her).
Granted it wasn’t all peaches and roses yesterday. At times one wanted to go home, a couple of times they fought with each other, and a couple of them hurt themselves, but that would happen on a typical day here at home too. Clearly they’re not miserable, frustrated, and feeling neglected. During the day I help them as often as I can and work to keep our interactions calm and kind, even when I’m stressed. I love doing the show because it gives me a chance to exercise my analytical skills and problem solving on a massive scale. I also have always loved showing my kids that they can do anything they choose, big or small (they’ve watched the show grow tremendously over the years), and that hard work and treating others with respect can be very rewarding on many levels. They also know I’m working hard at this show to earn some extra money for our cross-country road trip next month so we can do more fun things along the way. And yet the guilt still nags that my choices impact their lives, even if it doesn’t seem like it bothers them nearly as much.
Looking for inner peace and calm >>Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I love doing the show because it gives me a chance to exercise my analytical skills and problem solving on a massive scale.-=-
Save some for your girls. Some of the suggestions of providing a place for them to be might be useful here. Maybe one of the participants has a teen who would want to do something with younger children (not all of yours, necessarily, maybe just one!) for a few hours.
But it does seem that analytical skills and problem solving could include safe and interesting things for kids you know well.
-=-I realized that the title of this post should have been something like �Heaping loads of guilt on myself � how to make peace with the choices I�ve made when it inconveniences others�.-=-
But if others are very inconvenienced, guilt is appropriate. Don't make peace with yourself if it would prevent you from make improvements that could create peace and comfort for all the others.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Save some for your girls. Some of the suggestions of providing a place for them to be might be useful here. Maybe one of the participants has a teen who would want to do something with younger children (not all of yours, necessarily, maybe just one!) for a few hours.
But it does seem that analytical skills and problem solving could include safe and interesting things for kids you know well.
-=-I realized that the title of this post should have been something like �Heaping loads of guilt on myself � how to make peace with the choices I�ve made when it inconveniences others�.-=-
But if others are very inconvenienced, guilt is appropriate. Don't make peace with yourself if it would prevent you from make improvements that could create peace and comfort for all the others.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]