4 year old refuses to eat
tamara.needham
I don't know how to fix this, my daughter completely refuses to eat or sit at the table ever if there is food on it. She will happily sit at the table right until the moment food is placed on it and then she will run away and scream "I hate dinner", she's been doing this for over a year and I thought if I just let it be eventually she would join us. In the meantime I've set food on the little play table they have in the living room and offered snacky foods. I'm getting frustrated that she just won't eat. She has a limited diet of foods she will eat and most of it is very unhealthy.
I always feel embarrassed if we go somewhere and we are expected to sit down to eat because I know she won't comply, we do try to avoid this as much as possible.
Is this normal for kids to avoid mealtimes so insistently? Is there something I can be doing to help her?
Tamara
I always feel embarrassed if we go somewhere and we are expected to sit down to eat because I know she won't comply, we do try to avoid this as much as possible.
Is this normal for kids to avoid mealtimes so insistently? Is there something I can be doing to help her?
Tamara
Virginia Warren
I'm not sure I would want to eat dinner with someone who was trying to
"fix" me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"fix" me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Is this normal for kids to avoid mealtimes so insistently?-=-
You didn't mention breakfast or lunch.
I doubt she could some to "hate" something if it hadn't had some pressure involved at some point�some pain or shame or fear? Did you ever press her to eat it all? To taste everything? To sit quietly until boring grownups were full? To hold her utensils a certain way or not to eat at all?
-=-4 year old refuses to eat-=- was the subject line, but I think she's eating, right?
She's not eating adult food like an adult. But she's four. She's much closer to two years old than to ten years old.
-=-She has a limited diet of foods she will eat and most of it is very unhealthy. -=-
I suspect, from no more than the post you've written, that most of the problem is in your words and in the relative values you have place on meals and tables and times and your division of food into healthy and unhealthy, and your embarrassment.
The use of the word "comply" is telling, too.
So try to relax about all of the definitions you've given it thusfar and consider whether she seems to be starving, or physically deficient. Do her eyes look healthy? Does "eliminate" okay? Does she have enough strength to play?
Could you name all the foods she will eat?
And maybe look through some of this before you write back. You don't need to respond at all, but if you do want to, a list of what she will eat might be helpful. People here will have ideas and reassurances.
http://sandradodd.com/monkeyplatter
http://sandradodd.com/eating/dinner
http://sandradodd.com/eating/idea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You didn't mention breakfast or lunch.
I doubt she could some to "hate" something if it hadn't had some pressure involved at some point�some pain or shame or fear? Did you ever press her to eat it all? To taste everything? To sit quietly until boring grownups were full? To hold her utensils a certain way or not to eat at all?
-=-4 year old refuses to eat-=- was the subject line, but I think she's eating, right?
She's not eating adult food like an adult. But she's four. She's much closer to two years old than to ten years old.
-=-She has a limited diet of foods she will eat and most of it is very unhealthy. -=-
I suspect, from no more than the post you've written, that most of the problem is in your words and in the relative values you have place on meals and tables and times and your division of food into healthy and unhealthy, and your embarrassment.
The use of the word "comply" is telling, too.
So try to relax about all of the definitions you've given it thusfar and consider whether she seems to be starving, or physically deficient. Do her eyes look healthy? Does "eliminate" okay? Does she have enough strength to play?
Could you name all the foods she will eat?
And maybe look through some of this before you write back. You don't need to respond at all, but if you do want to, a list of what she will eat might be helpful. People here will have ideas and reassurances.
http://sandradodd.com/monkeyplatter
http://sandradodd.com/eating/dinner
http://sandradodd.com/eating/idea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Needham
> You didn't mention breakfast or lunch.Sorry yes it happens at all mealtimes, she calls them all dinner. She even gets upset when I bring food to the living room. But so far she will usually only eat at the play table or in the van.
> Did you ever press her to eat it all? To taste everything? To sit quietly until boring grownups were full? To hold her utensils a certain way or not to eat at all?Food has always been something I have struggled with, she is very small and the Dr has been concerned with her weight gain. So yes there have been times I have tried to press her to at least have a bite of something. No to trying everything, the utensils and the staying at the table though.
> Could you name all the foods she will eat?Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk.
>
dezignarob
=== I thought if I just let it be eventually she would join us. ..... I'm getting frustrated that she just won't eat. .... I always feel embarrassed if we go somewhere and we are expected to sit down to eat because I know she won't comply, we do try to avoid this as much as possible. ==
If Jayn at 4 were so unhappy about sitting to eat at a table, avoiding those situations "as much as possible" would have been "never", as in I would never have gone anywhere with that expectation. Indeed Jayn found dark, crowed, noisy or echoey restaurants intolerable, and we walked away after looking in the door many times, sometimes even after we had been seated. Grandpa was surprised at first, but later he understood.
Need a family event with a meal included? Try a picnic. Entertaining at home? Do a buffet with finger foods.
You can put out food that looks snacky that is still a wide variety of healthful, enjoyable foods. Your dinner food cut up small and served with toothpicks is snacky looking and might appeal. What about a picnic blanket on the floor? What about eating outside? What about packing a lunch box just for in the house?
But these are practical suggestions. The reading Sandra mentions will help with the philosophical issues.
Mentally holding on to the ulterior motive that she would eventually join you, is the same as allowing free use of screen time *in the hope* that your child will eventually "self-limit" their gaming/watching/internet, all the while internally disapproving or minimizing its importance to your child. Disapproval changes how you look at them; it effects your body language, your face, your thinking. You may think it's is hidden from them, but it is not.
These are mental barriers to understanding unschooling, and road blocks to actually gaining all that is possible from unschooling.
Robyn L. Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
If Jayn at 4 were so unhappy about sitting to eat at a table, avoiding those situations "as much as possible" would have been "never", as in I would never have gone anywhere with that expectation. Indeed Jayn found dark, crowed, noisy or echoey restaurants intolerable, and we walked away after looking in the door many times, sometimes even after we had been seated. Grandpa was surprised at first, but later he understood.
Need a family event with a meal included? Try a picnic. Entertaining at home? Do a buffet with finger foods.
You can put out food that looks snacky that is still a wide variety of healthful, enjoyable foods. Your dinner food cut up small and served with toothpicks is snacky looking and might appeal. What about a picnic blanket on the floor? What about eating outside? What about packing a lunch box just for in the house?
But these are practical suggestions. The reading Sandra mentions will help with the philosophical issues.
Mentally holding on to the ulterior motive that she would eventually join you, is the same as allowing free use of screen time *in the hope* that your child will eventually "self-limit" their gaming/watching/internet, all the while internally disapproving or minimizing its importance to your child. Disapproval changes how you look at them; it effects your body language, your face, your thinking. You may think it's is hidden from them, but it is not.
These are mental barriers to understanding unschooling, and road blocks to actually gaining all that is possible from unschooling.
Robyn L. Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
lucy.web
On 10 Mar 2013, at 20:01, tamara.needham <orangespotlight@...> wrote:
We didn't do anything that most families would consider untoward. But we definitely tried to pressure her into conforming to our ideas of what, how and when children should eat. I realised change was desperately needed when my younger daughter did as you describe: ran screaming from the table the instant I put food on it, even when it was food she liked.
I think it was probably the food issues that brought me to radical unschooling. I am very grateful that my daughter brought me here! She realised I was being controlling, when I hadn't seen it.
I now - within reason - cook what she wants, when she wants, and she can eat it where she wants. We have come to some agreements about some parameters for this. For example, If she wants to eat at her computer she knows not to choose something sloppy or sticky. She asks for simple things when I'm cooking a big meal for everyone else. If I've made a main meal and she doesn't want it, then she'll happily wait until I've eaten before asking me to heat up something simple for her. I make a roast dinner most Sundays because everyone else in the family loves it. My younger daughter knows that she can either join us, or request something else that's 'easy' to make instead, which she can either eat with us, or take elsewhere. She probably now chooses to eat with us about 50% of the time.
I have filling and nutritious 'snacks' that she loves easily to hand where she can get them herself: hard boiled eggs, cheese, yoghurts, oatcakes, crackers, fruit. There's also biscuits, sweets, cake. Some days she'll go for the sweet stuff, other days the savoury. Usually a mix of both, and - these days - what she's choosing start to look like a 'normal' balanced meal once you tot it all up.
Sometimes she needs to see the rest of us eating something many times before she asks to try it. I don't usually suggest new things for her to try because she will automatically refuse - sadly I mucked that up with my earlier controlling ways. I hope that - one day - we can communicate about food without it being emotive. I can wait. It's getting better all the time.
Some dishes that she loves and requests most often I have found ways to make more nutritious. For example she loves plain rice, so now I cook it in homemade chicken broth instead of water, and she likes it even more that way. I also cook noodles in chicken broth. Once I would have suggested she eat a side serving of vegetables and meat with the noodles. Now I don't worry at all, because the nutrients from the vegetables and meat are there in the broth. Doing things like this helps *me* relax about what she's eating, and that helps it be a non issue between us, because I'm not silently worrying.
We go to a particular buffet restaurant fairly regularly � when we're in the area and we can afford it. That's where she is most experimental with trying new things. There is no guilt attached, Mummy hasn't put any effort into cooking it, it's a 'eat all you can' type place, so she can take bits of anything she likes the look of and discard it if she doesn't like it. She can go up for more of anything she likes. Some things from that restaurant we have later managed to supply or replicate at home to extend her options. That's how she got to know that she loves calamari, fried fish, pork dumplings and lychees. I think she likes it that we go to the same place, because it's familiar, she knows the layout and she knows what to expect. And she knows there will be *something* there that she likes. The first few times we went she ate only plain rice, fruit salad and ice cream. But she was happy with that. Delighted, in fact.
I make monkey platters most evenings, which both girls eat while watching a movie, or something on their computer, or playing a game. My daughter rarely eats cooked vegetables, but there's a surprising number of veggies she likes raw, when they're presented prettily, on a plate. I use little 'bento' cutters to make cute shapes out of things, she loves that. I've noticed that she is O.K about having the odd new thing put on a monkey platter, perhaps because I'm never present when she tries it, perhaps because it's in a cute shape or part of a cute design. She discovered she likes radishes and 'petit pois' that way (not sure what they are called in the U.S - but peas eaten in their pods). So that means she's eating fresh veg most days � again, it helps me not to worry.
We don't go to many friend's houses for meals, because there is so much food-related pressure out there waiting to happen. We live in France, at the moment, where meals can be quite formal and elaborate three course affairs when you're least expecting it! There's a couple of families who know us really well, and they are happy for us to take a tin of baked beans or something that can easily be heated up, if my daughter doesn't like the look of anything else on offer. With my family there is a history there from my own childhood of 'eating what's on your plate' etc. I do the groundwork first to make sure there is no uncomfortable scene at the table. It's been really challenging, but ultimately very healing for me to put my foot down and tell my parents that my daughter can decline to eat at all if she wants to. My daughter and I have agreed in advance that she would prefer me to do the declining for her, if she tells me quietly whether she wants to eat or not. That helps avoid a scene too.
Lucy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Is this normal for kids to avoid mealtimes so insistently? Is there something I can be doing to help her?My youngest daughter was a lot like this, and still is to some extent. I had previously been quite controlling about meals and food. My older daughter likes to sit and eat with someone else at the table, and she likes varied meals. My younger has a much more limited palate at the moment, and doesn't like to try new things. I used to be stressed about whether she was getting all the nutrition she needed. Mealtimes became stressful, even when I tried hard to let go, and not let my stress show. It *always* shows, in my experience.
We didn't do anything that most families would consider untoward. But we definitely tried to pressure her into conforming to our ideas of what, how and when children should eat. I realised change was desperately needed when my younger daughter did as you describe: ran screaming from the table the instant I put food on it, even when it was food she liked.
I think it was probably the food issues that brought me to radical unschooling. I am very grateful that my daughter brought me here! She realised I was being controlling, when I hadn't seen it.
I now - within reason - cook what she wants, when she wants, and she can eat it where she wants. We have come to some agreements about some parameters for this. For example, If she wants to eat at her computer she knows not to choose something sloppy or sticky. She asks for simple things when I'm cooking a big meal for everyone else. If I've made a main meal and she doesn't want it, then she'll happily wait until I've eaten before asking me to heat up something simple for her. I make a roast dinner most Sundays because everyone else in the family loves it. My younger daughter knows that she can either join us, or request something else that's 'easy' to make instead, which she can either eat with us, or take elsewhere. She probably now chooses to eat with us about 50% of the time.
I have filling and nutritious 'snacks' that she loves easily to hand where she can get them herself: hard boiled eggs, cheese, yoghurts, oatcakes, crackers, fruit. There's also biscuits, sweets, cake. Some days she'll go for the sweet stuff, other days the savoury. Usually a mix of both, and - these days - what she's choosing start to look like a 'normal' balanced meal once you tot it all up.
Sometimes she needs to see the rest of us eating something many times before she asks to try it. I don't usually suggest new things for her to try because she will automatically refuse - sadly I mucked that up with my earlier controlling ways. I hope that - one day - we can communicate about food without it being emotive. I can wait. It's getting better all the time.
Some dishes that she loves and requests most often I have found ways to make more nutritious. For example she loves plain rice, so now I cook it in homemade chicken broth instead of water, and she likes it even more that way. I also cook noodles in chicken broth. Once I would have suggested she eat a side serving of vegetables and meat with the noodles. Now I don't worry at all, because the nutrients from the vegetables and meat are there in the broth. Doing things like this helps *me* relax about what she's eating, and that helps it be a non issue between us, because I'm not silently worrying.
We go to a particular buffet restaurant fairly regularly � when we're in the area and we can afford it. That's where she is most experimental with trying new things. There is no guilt attached, Mummy hasn't put any effort into cooking it, it's a 'eat all you can' type place, so she can take bits of anything she likes the look of and discard it if she doesn't like it. She can go up for more of anything she likes. Some things from that restaurant we have later managed to supply or replicate at home to extend her options. That's how she got to know that she loves calamari, fried fish, pork dumplings and lychees. I think she likes it that we go to the same place, because it's familiar, she knows the layout and she knows what to expect. And she knows there will be *something* there that she likes. The first few times we went she ate only plain rice, fruit salad and ice cream. But she was happy with that. Delighted, in fact.
I make monkey platters most evenings, which both girls eat while watching a movie, or something on their computer, or playing a game. My daughter rarely eats cooked vegetables, but there's a surprising number of veggies she likes raw, when they're presented prettily, on a plate. I use little 'bento' cutters to make cute shapes out of things, she loves that. I've noticed that she is O.K about having the odd new thing put on a monkey platter, perhaps because I'm never present when she tries it, perhaps because it's in a cute shape or part of a cute design. She discovered she likes radishes and 'petit pois' that way (not sure what they are called in the U.S - but peas eaten in their pods). So that means she's eating fresh veg most days � again, it helps me not to worry.
We don't go to many friend's houses for meals, because there is so much food-related pressure out there waiting to happen. We live in France, at the moment, where meals can be quite formal and elaborate three course affairs when you're least expecting it! There's a couple of families who know us really well, and they are happy for us to take a tin of baked beans or something that can easily be heated up, if my daughter doesn't like the look of anything else on offer. With my family there is a history there from my own childhood of 'eating what's on your plate' etc. I do the groundwork first to make sure there is no uncomfortable scene at the table. It's been really challenging, but ultimately very healing for me to put my foot down and tell my parents that my daughter can decline to eat at all if she wants to. My daughter and I have agreed in advance that she would prefer me to do the declining for her, if she tells me quietly whether she wants to eat or not. That helps avoid a scene too.
Lucy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle
== Food has always been something I have struggled with, she is very small and the Dr has been concerned with her weight gain. ==
Are you and/or her dad small yourselves? I have a good friend whose husband is a very small guy - both in height and weight. Their first daughter is *tiny* - seriously one of the smallest kids I've ever seen. She's also healthy as can be BUT their doctor kept worrying about her size. I kept shaking my head and wondering if the doctor ever really LOOKED at the child and LOOKED at her parents. They still sometimes worry, even though she's a very curious, active, intelligent, healthy child. She's just naturally small!
On the flip size, my older son is a big guy, some would call him overweight. My husband is 6'6" and about 300 pounds - he has a very large frame. Thankfully our doctor has never questioned my son's size, because he can see for himself how big this now-teen might possibly become, and all that weight will realign.
All that to say - unless your daughter is having actual health issues, don't be so concerned with what her doctor says. Especially not to the point where you are damaging your relationship with one another.
Michelle
Are you and/or her dad small yourselves? I have a good friend whose husband is a very small guy - both in height and weight. Their first daughter is *tiny* - seriously one of the smallest kids I've ever seen. She's also healthy as can be BUT their doctor kept worrying about her size. I kept shaking my head and wondering if the doctor ever really LOOKED at the child and LOOKED at her parents. They still sometimes worry, even though she's a very curious, active, intelligent, healthy child. She's just naturally small!
On the flip size, my older son is a big guy, some would call him overweight. My husband is 6'6" and about 300 pounds - he has a very large frame. Thankfully our doctor has never questioned my son's size, because he can see for himself how big this now-teen might possibly become, and all that weight will realign.
All that to say - unless your daughter is having actual health issues, don't be so concerned with what her doctor says. Especially not to the point where you are damaging your relationship with one another.
Michelle
haydee deldenovese
I would suggest making her shakes in the morning. Try once, make yourself a
nice shake with things you know she likes, make it sweet. Maybe
strawberries, blueberries, apple and a banana with a little cinnammon and
milk of your choice (that she likes) even if you need to add a little
chocolate. Let her see how yummy that new drink is, ans see if she wants to
try it. If she likes it, give her some and let her have as much as she
wants of it. Then maybe you can try making it together and let her choose
diff fruits to throw in there, make it a fun experiment and see the
response. If she likes it and takes to it, it doesn't matter if she has a
"dinner" meal, she will be getting healthy nutrients in the shakes...
Good luck :)
Haydee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nice shake with things you know she likes, make it sweet. Maybe
strawberries, blueberries, apple and a banana with a little cinnammon and
milk of your choice (that she likes) even if you need to add a little
chocolate. Let her see how yummy that new drink is, ans see if she wants to
try it. If she likes it, give her some and let her have as much as she
wants of it. Then maybe you can try making it together and let her choose
diff fruits to throw in there, make it a fun experiment and see the
response. If she likes it and takes to it, it doesn't matter if she has a
"dinner" meal, she will be getting healthy nutrients in the shakes...
Good luck :)
Haydee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Food has always been something I have struggled with, she is very small and the Dr has been concerned with her weight gain.-=-
So the doctor is probably eating his meals fine, at home, or some really nice restaurant. Meanwhile, your own child has an aversion.
Don't make it worse. Don't worry about what the doctor is concerned with. He's concerned with getting no complaints or lawsuits, so he will try to find things wrong and give advice or treatments.
Small and healthy is MUCH better than small (or a bit bigger) and traumatized (or even small or-a-big-bigger and slightly uncomfortable).
-=-Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk. -=-
Picture a starving child in a famine area, or a child during rationing after a war, or the child of an alcoholic or drug addicted mother who totally forgets to bring food home.
Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk.
Oranges, apples and blueberries?
There are kids who might get canned fruit cocktail from government surplus, but never blueberries.
If it weren't for the peanut butter, I would think the chips might be decent fat pieces of fried and then steamed potatoes! But even if they're thin salty pieces of potatoes, it's more nourishing than not, and there are starving children who would do well to have them.
http://sandradodd.com/abundance
Without her changing anything, you can be happier.
Without her eating anything different, you can love her better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So the doctor is probably eating his meals fine, at home, or some really nice restaurant. Meanwhile, your own child has an aversion.
Don't make it worse. Don't worry about what the doctor is concerned with. He's concerned with getting no complaints or lawsuits, so he will try to find things wrong and give advice or treatments.
Small and healthy is MUCH better than small (or a bit bigger) and traumatized (or even small or-a-big-bigger and slightly uncomfortable).
-=-Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk. -=-
Picture a starving child in a famine area, or a child during rationing after a war, or the child of an alcoholic or drug addicted mother who totally forgets to bring food home.
Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk.
Oranges, apples and blueberries?
There are kids who might get canned fruit cocktail from government surplus, but never blueberries.
If it weren't for the peanut butter, I would think the chips might be decent fat pieces of fried and then steamed potatoes! But even if they're thin salty pieces of potatoes, it's more nourishing than not, and there are starving children who would do well to have them.
http://sandradodd.com/abundance
Without her changing anything, you can be happier.
Without her eating anything different, you can love her better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
>>>>She will happily sit at the table right until the moment food is placed on it and then she will run away and scream "I hate dinner", she's been doing this for over a year and I thought if I just let it be eventually she would join us.<<<<<What if you got rid of the table (hypothetically)?
What if you brought yummy bowls of foods to the tv and all sat around together watching her favourite shows/movies and eating good eats?
What if you all sat round her play table playing a memory game, or some other game, or putting together a puzzle while eating good food together? Floor pillows are comfy for adults when the tables are small :-)
What if you set up a buffet at the kitchen counter and put on some fun music? You could dance a bit and eat a bit.
What if you bought some tv trays or trays for serving dinner in bed, and got all cozy while you ate somewhere completely unexpected?
What if you picked out her favourite blanket and had random picnics all over the house, including wacky places like closets with flashlights (my son loved this), inviting special stuffed friends to join in?
What if you made a fort out of blankets and called it the "Daughter's Name Restaurant," and made menus she dictated, then made that food to serve and share inside the fort?
You know your daughter best. What does she love to do? How can food become a fun part of that? My son loves gaming. I almost always have food beside him while he plays. At dinner, we often play a variety of more compact games including dice games, dominoes or dinner games. There is a chin up bar in our kitchen. Often our son (ten years old) eats a bit, runs to swing on the bar, and then returns for more food. Often we listen to music while we eat. Sometimes we all bring our plates to the tv to watch something Ethan likes. Sometimes we eat and all play a video game together. We will likely do that tonight!
Perhaps your daughter associates eating with pressure or boredom or worry. If so, making healthy, fun connections to food and eating together might help a lot.
Meredith
"tamara.needham" <orangespotlight@...> wrote:
Why is it important to you that she do so? What's so important about sitting at the table?
My partner and I eat meals together - dinner, most nights, and breakfasts when we can. The kids are welcome, and when Ray was still living with us he usually joined us because he likes the social aspect of eating together. Nowadays he often comes over and has lunch with George while I'm at work. My daughter sometimes joins whoever is eating to socialize, or will come and eat with us but eat something different than what we're having. If she doesn't like the look of what we're eating - if the way it looks grosses her out, I mean - she may decide not to join us, or she may ask that we put up some kind of barrier (like a cereal box or open hardback book) so she doesn't have to see our food.
My daughter has a very small apetite and very conservative tastes as well. When she was 4, she went a whole summer on milk almost exclusively (not breastmilk, grocery store cow's milk, nothing special). She did eat some home-made cookies, but something like three cookies a week. I got her some nice kid-vitamins, mostly to assuage my own sense of panic, and she liked those. She has always been robustly healthy of the "how do you keep up with her?" sort, which also helps. It's hard to worry too much about someone who can wear you out ;)
If you're worried about the quality of the food your daughter is eating, look for alternatives you can feel good about. Make as much of your own as you can so you can feel good about the ingredients. Buy varieties of commercial food that have better ingredients - one of the advantages of a kid who doesn't eat much is you can afford those fancy foods a lot more easily than one who eats as much as a rugby team ;)
Be sure to "count" beverages as food, too. If she drinks juice, you can check the mental box next to "fruits and vegetables". Does she like smoothies? My daughter mostly doesn't, but some kids adore them and that's a way to offer a whole lot of variety simply.
I try to make sure Mo eats before we go anywhere there will be food - if nothing else a snack in the car. Then I can say "she just ate" with perfect honestly and avoid hurt feelings. I also learned to bring things for my kids to do at the table if I wanted them to sit around while adults made boring conversation ;) Make "the table" a pleasant place to be, not a chore! Eating before the meal is also a good set up if a kid wants dessert first - "it's okay, she just ate!"
---Meredith
>************
> I don't know how to fix this, my daughter completely refuses to eat or sit at the table ever if there is food on it.
Why is it important to you that she do so? What's so important about sitting at the table?
My partner and I eat meals together - dinner, most nights, and breakfasts when we can. The kids are welcome, and when Ray was still living with us he usually joined us because he likes the social aspect of eating together. Nowadays he often comes over and has lunch with George while I'm at work. My daughter sometimes joins whoever is eating to socialize, or will come and eat with us but eat something different than what we're having. If she doesn't like the look of what we're eating - if the way it looks grosses her out, I mean - she may decide not to join us, or she may ask that we put up some kind of barrier (like a cereal box or open hardback book) so she doesn't have to see our food.
>>She has a limited diet of foods she will eat and most of it is very unhealthy.**************
My daughter has a very small apetite and very conservative tastes as well. When she was 4, she went a whole summer on milk almost exclusively (not breastmilk, grocery store cow's milk, nothing special). She did eat some home-made cookies, but something like three cookies a week. I got her some nice kid-vitamins, mostly to assuage my own sense of panic, and she liked those. She has always been robustly healthy of the "how do you keep up with her?" sort, which also helps. It's hard to worry too much about someone who can wear you out ;)
If you're worried about the quality of the food your daughter is eating, look for alternatives you can feel good about. Make as much of your own as you can so you can feel good about the ingredients. Buy varieties of commercial food that have better ingredients - one of the advantages of a kid who doesn't eat much is you can afford those fancy foods a lot more easily than one who eats as much as a rugby team ;)
Be sure to "count" beverages as food, too. If she drinks juice, you can check the mental box next to "fruits and vegetables". Does she like smoothies? My daughter mostly doesn't, but some kids adore them and that's a way to offer a whole lot of variety simply.
>> I always feel embarrassed if we go somewhere and we are expected to sit down to eat because I know she won't comply*************
I try to make sure Mo eats before we go anywhere there will be food - if nothing else a snack in the car. Then I can say "she just ate" with perfect honestly and avoid hurt feelings. I also learned to bring things for my kids to do at the table if I wanted them to sit around while adults made boring conversation ;) Make "the table" a pleasant place to be, not a chore! Eating before the meal is also a good set up if a kid wants dessert first - "it's okay, she just ate!"
> Is this normal for kids to avoid mealtimes so insistently?It's normal for many people to avoid situations where they're going to be bored and/or frustrated. If you're serving food your daughter mostly doesn't eat, talking about things which don't interest her, what's so good about meal time?
---Meredith
Karen
>>>>> I would suggest making her shakes in the morning. <<<<<I was just thinking the same thing. We call them smoothies. If your daughter likes chocolate milk, try adding a frozen banana and a few walnuts or almonds to it and see what she thinks. If she likes that try adding other things.
Looking at food as more than "dinner" will help, I think. Children seem to naturally eat when they are hungry and as much as they are hungry for. Our society seems to have a different idea about eating, but I'm not sure it's healthier. My son, even still, prefers to eat many times throughout the day, and smaller amounts of food. I'm still stuck in meal mode, so I do breakfast, lunch (most days) and dinner daily, but I encourage him to eat only what, and as much as he wants.
Throughout the day, I serve nuts, carrots, raisons, yogurt, energy bars, cookies, potato chips, celery, sandwiches, smoothies, hummus, crackers, pretzels, cut up hot dogs, granola, cereal, etc. Over the course of the day he eats well. During meals he eats what he wants. Food is food, regardless of the time of day.
If it's not quite enough nutritional variety, a chewable children's multi-vitamin is an option too.
Meredith
Tamara Needham <orangespotlight@...> wrote:
Oh, hey, she's a Big eater compared to Mo at the same age - although by the time she was 6 Mo had that much variety in her diet ;)
Mo's 11 and some days her diet is still composed of popcorn and milk. She's still robustly healthy. She's just been on the trampoline for an hour - for something like the third time today.
Sandra sent the Monkey Platter link - given that your daughter has a very small apetite, pare any of those ideas down to something which would fit on a saucer. Five pieces of popcorn, a few grapes (or blueberries!), a pinch of shredded cheese and a cup of milk or juice. Tiny, tiny portions.
If she likes fun things, look at bento box ideas - make tiny Cute things so that food is sweet and fun, not a chore or a stressor.
---Meredith
>> > Could you name all the foods she will eat?*************
>
> Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk.
Oh, hey, she's a Big eater compared to Mo at the same age - although by the time she was 6 Mo had that much variety in her diet ;)
Mo's 11 and some days her diet is still composed of popcorn and milk. She's still robustly healthy. She's just been on the trampoline for an hour - for something like the third time today.
Sandra sent the Monkey Platter link - given that your daughter has a very small apetite, pare any of those ideas down to something which would fit on a saucer. Five pieces of popcorn, a few grapes (or blueberries!), a pinch of shredded cheese and a cup of milk or juice. Tiny, tiny portions.
If she likes fun things, look at bento box ideas - make tiny Cute things so that food is sweet and fun, not a chore or a stressor.
---Meredith
chris ester
On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Karen <semajrak@...> wrote:
you get vitamins that do not include iron, first because iron is not
necessarily good to include in a person's diet unless there is a genuine
medical reason for it, but more importantly, it will often be the 'icky'
taste in vitamins.
My son had major issues with weight gain and appetite loss as a young child
(he was born premature and at a low birth weight) and he would actually get
listless and cold if he didn't consume enough food. I gave him children's
vitamins with zinc, which actually seemed to help his appetite.
I never set limits on what he could have or when he could have it because I
was grateful for any calories he would consume. I did avoid animal
products when he was very small to try to head off the possibility of food
allergies (big family history of killer allergies). I set up a cabinet of
snacks that he could reach once he was mobile, so I guess he was around a
year old. This cabinet was kept stocked with lots of finger foods that he
loved. I tried to make sure that there were healthy things in the cabinet,
but whether he liked it and would eat it trumped everything. How about
peanut butter cracker sandwiches? Homemade cookies (made with healthy
stuff as well as butter and rapadura sugar which has good minerals in it),
crackers, fruit snacks, etc.
I also set up finger foods in the bottom of the fridge that were clean and
ready to eat. So baby carrots, grapes, cut up bananas, etc.(whatever he
liked that he would maybe eat) would be in the bottom of the fridge on
"his" shelf. I enlisted his help with shopping and stocking these things
in the cabinet and fridge. I asked him what I should buy from the store to
eat. I still do now that he is 16. I also availed myself of some of these
things--like dipping fruit into peanut butter.
But as long as she is developing else wise, I would not worry about the
doctor so much.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **I think all of this is really good advice. I would strongly suggest that
> >>>>If it's not quite enough nutritional variety, a chewable children's
> multi-vitamin is an option too.<<<<
>
>
you get vitamins that do not include iron, first because iron is not
necessarily good to include in a person's diet unless there is a genuine
medical reason for it, but more importantly, it will often be the 'icky'
taste in vitamins.
My son had major issues with weight gain and appetite loss as a young child
(he was born premature and at a low birth weight) and he would actually get
listless and cold if he didn't consume enough food. I gave him children's
vitamins with zinc, which actually seemed to help his appetite.
I never set limits on what he could have or when he could have it because I
was grateful for any calories he would consume. I did avoid animal
products when he was very small to try to head off the possibility of food
allergies (big family history of killer allergies). I set up a cabinet of
snacks that he could reach once he was mobile, so I guess he was around a
year old. This cabinet was kept stocked with lots of finger foods that he
loved. I tried to make sure that there were healthy things in the cabinet,
but whether he liked it and would eat it trumped everything. How about
peanut butter cracker sandwiches? Homemade cookies (made with healthy
stuff as well as butter and rapadura sugar which has good minerals in it),
crackers, fruit snacks, etc.
I also set up finger foods in the bottom of the fridge that were clean and
ready to eat. So baby carrots, grapes, cut up bananas, etc.(whatever he
liked that he would maybe eat) would be in the bottom of the fridge on
"his" shelf. I enlisted his help with shopping and stocking these things
in the cabinet and fridge. I asked him what I should buy from the store to
eat. I still do now that he is 16. I also availed myself of some of these
things--like dipping fruit into peanut butter.
But as long as she is developing else wise, I would not worry about the
doctor so much.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
K Pennell
The list of foods isn't too bad. My kids practically lived off dried cereal for a while. I calmed my fears by reminding myself they seemed healthy and those cereals are fortified with vitamins and minerals. When my daughter was little (she wasnt unschooled, but we didn't believe in food battles at all) she would eat a slice of bologna, cheerios and pickles for dinner, with apple juice. She turned out healthy and happy.
________________________________
From: Michelle <shellthed@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:14 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: 4 year old refuses to eat
== Food has always been something I have struggled with, she is very small and the Dr has been concerned with her weight gain. ==
Are you and/or her dad small yourselves? I have a good friend whose husband is a very small guy - both in height and weight. Their first daughter is *tiny* - seriously one of the smallest kids I've ever seen. She's also healthy as can be BUT their doctor kept worrying about her size. I kept shaking my head and wondering if the doctor ever really LOOKED at the child and LOOKED at her parents. They still sometimes worry, even though she's a very curious, active, intelligent, healthy child. She's just naturally small!
On the flip size, my older son is a big guy, some would call him overweight. My husband is 6'6" and about 300 pounds - he has a very large frame. Thankfully our doctor has never questioned my son's size, because he can see for himself how big this now-teen might possibly become, and all that weight will realign.
All that to say - unless your daughter is having actual health issues, don't be so concerned with what her doctor says. Especially not to the point where you are damaging your relationship with one another.
Michelle
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Michelle <shellthed@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:14 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: 4 year old refuses to eat
== Food has always been something I have struggled with, she is very small and the Dr has been concerned with her weight gain. ==
Are you and/or her dad small yourselves? I have a good friend whose husband is a very small guy - both in height and weight. Their first daughter is *tiny* - seriously one of the smallest kids I've ever seen. She's also healthy as can be BUT their doctor kept worrying about her size. I kept shaking my head and wondering if the doctor ever really LOOKED at the child and LOOKED at her parents. They still sometimes worry, even though she's a very curious, active, intelligent, healthy child. She's just naturally small!
On the flip size, my older son is a big guy, some would call him overweight. My husband is 6'6" and about 300 pounds - he has a very large frame. Thankfully our doctor has never questioned my son's size, because he can see for himself how big this now-teen might possibly become, and all that weight will realign.
All that to say - unless your daughter is having actual health issues, don't be so concerned with what her doctor says. Especially not to the point where you are damaging your relationship with one another.
Michelle
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Michelle <shellthed@...> wrote:
chart the doctor uses.
I assumed that being in the same percentile for both (or close) would be
normal. However, when my daughter was about 3, she was off the chart on
the high end for height and weight. She looked very skinny though. Well,
the doctor asked me what she ate and have I been watching for how much fat
and sugar she was consuming!!!
We are vegetarians, so consuming fat is something you actually have to work
at since it is highest in animal based foods. I told the doctor this and
she seemed slightly mollified...
I think doctors use those charts as a short cut instead of thinking...
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **she was always at the 90+ percentile for height and weight on that silly
>
>
>
>
> >>>Are you and/or her dad small yourselves? I have a good friend whose
> husband is a very small guy - both in height and weight. Their first
> daughter is *tiny* - seriously one of the smallest kids I've ever seen.
> She's also healthy as can be BUT their doctor kept worrying about her size.
> I kept shaking my head and wondering if the doctor ever really LOOKED at
> the child and LOOKED at her parents. They still sometimes worry, even
> though she's a very curious, active, intelligent, healthy child. She's just
> naturally small.
>
> Michelle<<<<<<<
>
> My daughter is very tall and always has been. From about 4 months on,
chart the doctor uses.
I assumed that being in the same percentile for both (or close) would be
normal. However, when my daughter was about 3, she was off the chart on
the high end for height and weight. She looked very skinny though. Well,
the doctor asked me what she ate and have I been watching for how much fat
and sugar she was consuming!!!
We are vegetarians, so consuming fat is something you actually have to work
at since it is highest in animal based foods. I told the doctor this and
she seemed slightly mollified...
I think doctors use those charts as a short cut instead of thinking...
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hello
I know this thread is a bit old, but I am just catching up with my mails.
So as she seems to like cheese and meat, my suggestion would be to offer more foods that contain animal products:
- Beef liver patties (liver has tons of nutrients and red meat is very healthy too)
- Hot dog and shredded cheese from grassfed cows
- Pancakes made from eggs and bananas (very sweet! And egg yolks are very healthy)
- white rice cooked in bone broth with extra grassfed butter and cod liver oil
- fish fingers
- canned fish like tuna, mackerl, sardines.
- cakes with lots of eggs and butter
If a child doesn't eat a lot, parents can try to provide more nutrient-dense food. Grassfed meat and eggs are said to have more nutrients.(http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm)
I also tried searching for "hide vegetables in food" and came across this recipe: zuccini muffins! http://www.parenting.com/gallery/hiding-vegetables-food. Haven't tried it, but might as it sounds interesting.
Hope this helps!
Bettina
I know this thread is a bit old, but I am just catching up with my mails.
> > Could you name all the foods she will eat?When people think of healthy food they often think fruit and vegetables but not animal products. This is very unfortunate as animal foods contain many important nutrients (iron, zinc, selenium, B-Vitamins, Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, Vitamin E, Vitamin A) and very often these nutrients can be more easily absorbed by our bodies than the same or similar nutrient in plants (e.g. you need to eat a lot of carotene from carrots to get the amount of vitamin A available in liver).
>
> Shredded cheese, bits of hot dog, bacon, the coating off of chicken nuggets, chips, peanut butter, dry cereals, oranges, apples, and blueberries she will eat in very small amounts. Mainly she eats popcorn and drinks chocolate milk.
So as she seems to like cheese and meat, my suggestion would be to offer more foods that contain animal products:
- Beef liver patties (liver has tons of nutrients and red meat is very healthy too)
- Hot dog and shredded cheese from grassfed cows
- Pancakes made from eggs and bananas (very sweet! And egg yolks are very healthy)
- white rice cooked in bone broth with extra grassfed butter and cod liver oil
- fish fingers
- canned fish like tuna, mackerl, sardines.
- cakes with lots of eggs and butter
If a child doesn't eat a lot, parents can try to provide more nutrient-dense food. Grassfed meat and eggs are said to have more nutrients.(http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm)
I also tried searching for "hide vegetables in food" and came across this recipe: zuccini muffins! http://www.parenting.com/gallery/hiding-vegetables-food. Haven't tried it, but might as it sounds interesting.
Hope this helps!
Bettina
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 18, 2013, at 3:25 PM, jumping.higher@... wrote:
But disguising food kids don't want to eat doesn't go well with unschooling. It's a betrayal of trust. Let kids know.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I also tried searching for "hide vegetables in food" and came across this recipe: zuccini muffins!Zucchini muffins are good :-)
But disguising food kids don't want to eat doesn't go well with unschooling. It's a betrayal of trust. Let kids know.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-So as she seems to like cheese and meat, my suggestion would be to offer more foods that contain animal products:
-=-
Neither list had eggs. Scrambled eggs with grated cheese added just before they're done can make great sandwiches for kids. Or tuna/egg salad sandwiches. But small, cute ones, not BIG sandwiches.
-=-I also tried searching for "hide vegetables in food" and came across this recipe: zuccini muffins! http://www.parenting.com/gallery/hiding-vegetables-food. Haven't tried it, but might as it sounds interesting.-=-
Banana bread, zucchini bread, lots of things like that can be fun. Quiche squares.
Some of those sites are sneaky and pushy, so please do an unschooling version of those. Just say "Here are some muffins" or "do you want some quiche?" and if they ask what's in, them, tell them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-
Neither list had eggs. Scrambled eggs with grated cheese added just before they're done can make great sandwiches for kids. Or tuna/egg salad sandwiches. But small, cute ones, not BIG sandwiches.
-=-I also tried searching for "hide vegetables in food" and came across this recipe: zuccini muffins! http://www.parenting.com/gallery/hiding-vegetables-food. Haven't tried it, but might as it sounds interesting.-=-
Banana bread, zucchini bread, lots of things like that can be fun. Quiche squares.
Some of those sites are sneaky and pushy, so please do an unschooling version of those. Just say "Here are some muffins" or "do you want some quiche?" and if they ask what's in, them, tell them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"jumping.higher@..." <jumping.higher@...> wrote:
As the parent of a kid with a little bitty apetite, it's useful to know that this can backfire... depending on what you think will happen. My daughter's apetite goes up significantly when she's getting ready for another growth spurt, and she tends to choose more proteins and fats, too - she'll actively seek them out in ways she otherwise doesn't. In between growth spurts, her apetite will diminish to very little food, mostly not "nutrient dense". The amount of water she drinks will go up and milk and juice goes down. It's fascinating!
---Meredith
>> If a child doesn't eat a lot, parents can try to provide more nutrient-dense food.*************
As the parent of a kid with a little bitty apetite, it's useful to know that this can backfire... depending on what you think will happen. My daughter's apetite goes up significantly when she's getting ready for another growth spurt, and she tends to choose more proteins and fats, too - she'll actively seek them out in ways she otherwise doesn't. In between growth spurts, her apetite will diminish to very little food, mostly not "nutrient dense". The amount of water she drinks will go up and milk and juice goes down. It's fascinating!
>> - cakes with lots of eggs and butterNut butters and nut meals make great additives to baked goods, too. Nut butters are becomming more prevalent - I've started to see almond butter at Walmart, for instance - and nut meals can be made easily with a food processor.
---Meredith