Minecraft support
Ali Zeljo
Hello. I recently joined this forum looking for inspiration and support in unschooling. I finally found Sandra Dodd's website, which led me here. I have four sons. They are 13,9,4,2. For about a year, the oldest three have been playing Minecraft. My question for you is about addiction to it. Have any of you faced this issue? My oldest child tends to get passionate about one thing and pursue it intensely for years. His brothers tend to follow his lead. For the first 6 years of his life it was basketball. That was fun and easy to pursue with him. The next 6-7 years were Lego. Now the family is onto Minecraft. This is the first time the passion looks like addiction at times and I'm not sure what to do.
As a mom, I've learned that doing nothing at first is usually wise, observing and waiting-- usually things unravel and solve themselves. My husband is getting upset. I sometimes feel sick with worry. Here is a picture of our life these days.
The youngest player was 3 when he started. He is a marvel- the tiny little fingers expertly controlling that boxy figure. Now 4 years old, he wakes up in the morning and goes straight to the computer. He has to check who is on Z-Craft (the boys run a public server). Most days, he never stops playing or watching youtube videos of other people playing, the entire day. If he does stop, it is because he is enticed by the 2 year old or by me into something fun- but never for more than a few minutes- gotta run back to the computer. If we have to leave the house for any reason, he brings the laptop and plays single player in the car. I bring him food, drinks, powercord. He often Skypes with 10-12 year olds and plays Minecraft Hunger Games with them or discusses issues on Z-Craft. I see him learning to read words, typing tons of commands, learning strategies, making friends... This is a very deep place for him- he is SO young and has so much to learn from the opportunities it provides. But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow. And he is SO young! There is a part of me that feels like he is missing out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy! I check in with him and ask him about what he's doing...but mostly I'm engaged in playing with the 2 year old or doing household stuff with the 2 year old. It is very easy to just leave him playing minecraft with his brothers while I do___ with the little guy. Sometimes what we are doing looks SO interesting and fun that he wants to participate, but he seems to feel naked without the laptop, so he brings it and turns back to it every minute or two. How do I decide if this is a problem that I need to do something about? (Fear scenario running thru my head: HEADLINE: parents "unschool" kid and from age 3, he spends every waking minute gaming on Minecraft until he can no longer do anything else. He is so addicted and entrenched in the Minecraft world, that his fingers can't leave the keyboard- even though he wants to do other things- the addiction is so strong, he cannot break away)
The 9 & 13 year olds sleep later and roll out of bed and sit and stare for a while. After talking with 4 year old about server issues, or new kits on MCPvp, they grab their computers and start to play. However, their lives are considerably more busy- a couple days a week they go to activities that they enjoy, they have friends who come over and entice them outside to play kickball, they play on sports teams and willingly get off Minecraft for games & practices. Even still, they manage to play minecraft or watch minecraft videos for around 6 hours per day on busy days and on free days (3-4 per week) they play 12-14 hours or even more.
The 4 & 13 year olds are mostly docile and sweet and easy. But the 9 year old tends to get angry, loud, and violent. These issues are scary for me. So he is DETERMINED to win at this minecraft server that offers Hunger Games scenarios with 150 players- last one left alive wins. This is entirely engaging to him. He has won 11 times. He wants to win 100 times. There is $ involved- they sell kits with powers and monthly fees for ranks. He buys all these things. The pattern has been that as the evening comes on, he gets more and more desperate to win one game! He plays over and over, getting more and more heightened. He cannot go to bed. He must win! He is getting so tired, everyone else in the house has fallen asleep. He is still awake, trying again and again! I wake up, I hear him crying! He is SO tired. He can't stop. He keeps coming in second or third! Why can't I win? Sometimes he gives in to snuggling in bed with me at this point (usually 12:30-1am). I am way too exhausted to stay up with him. Other times he just keeps playing and I'm not sure when he gets in bed! ;(
I sometimes sit next to him and watch. He gets so explosive with a loss that he will lash out at whoever is near. Just yesterday I could tell he was at explosion point and asked if he wanted to walk the dogs with me. He said yes, but then as the game ended he jumped up and attacked me, his whole body shaking and eyes popping out. I was scared and was grateful his body is still small enough that he can't truly hurt me! He came on the walk and calmed down. I explained how scary that attack was for me, and how scary and dangerous it is for his brothers when he does it to them. He seems to take it in. We get home, he runs straight back to the computer to play more. No more violent episodes that day. Phew.
Is there an addiction component? Am I evolving into what I saw discussed a few days ago "free range" parenting? Do I just let them play MC because it requires so little from me?! Anyone else here struggling with similar issues? I feel alone in this world, like everyone around me is not safe to talk to. Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer all day?????
Thank you for input and wisdom!!
Warmly,
Ali
As a mom, I've learned that doing nothing at first is usually wise, observing and waiting-- usually things unravel and solve themselves. My husband is getting upset. I sometimes feel sick with worry. Here is a picture of our life these days.
The youngest player was 3 when he started. He is a marvel- the tiny little fingers expertly controlling that boxy figure. Now 4 years old, he wakes up in the morning and goes straight to the computer. He has to check who is on Z-Craft (the boys run a public server). Most days, he never stops playing or watching youtube videos of other people playing, the entire day. If he does stop, it is because he is enticed by the 2 year old or by me into something fun- but never for more than a few minutes- gotta run back to the computer. If we have to leave the house for any reason, he brings the laptop and plays single player in the car. I bring him food, drinks, powercord. He often Skypes with 10-12 year olds and plays Minecraft Hunger Games with them or discusses issues on Z-Craft. I see him learning to read words, typing tons of commands, learning strategies, making friends... This is a very deep place for him- he is SO young and has so much to learn from the opportunities it provides. But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow. And he is SO young! There is a part of me that feels like he is missing out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy! I check in with him and ask him about what he's doing...but mostly I'm engaged in playing with the 2 year old or doing household stuff with the 2 year old. It is very easy to just leave him playing minecraft with his brothers while I do___ with the little guy. Sometimes what we are doing looks SO interesting and fun that he wants to participate, but he seems to feel naked without the laptop, so he brings it and turns back to it every minute or two. How do I decide if this is a problem that I need to do something about? (Fear scenario running thru my head: HEADLINE: parents "unschool" kid and from age 3, he spends every waking minute gaming on Minecraft until he can no longer do anything else. He is so addicted and entrenched in the Minecraft world, that his fingers can't leave the keyboard- even though he wants to do other things- the addiction is so strong, he cannot break away)
The 9 & 13 year olds sleep later and roll out of bed and sit and stare for a while. After talking with 4 year old about server issues, or new kits on MCPvp, they grab their computers and start to play. However, their lives are considerably more busy- a couple days a week they go to activities that they enjoy, they have friends who come over and entice them outside to play kickball, they play on sports teams and willingly get off Minecraft for games & practices. Even still, they manage to play minecraft or watch minecraft videos for around 6 hours per day on busy days and on free days (3-4 per week) they play 12-14 hours or even more.
The 4 & 13 year olds are mostly docile and sweet and easy. But the 9 year old tends to get angry, loud, and violent. These issues are scary for me. So he is DETERMINED to win at this minecraft server that offers Hunger Games scenarios with 150 players- last one left alive wins. This is entirely engaging to him. He has won 11 times. He wants to win 100 times. There is $ involved- they sell kits with powers and monthly fees for ranks. He buys all these things. The pattern has been that as the evening comes on, he gets more and more desperate to win one game! He plays over and over, getting more and more heightened. He cannot go to bed. He must win! He is getting so tired, everyone else in the house has fallen asleep. He is still awake, trying again and again! I wake up, I hear him crying! He is SO tired. He can't stop. He keeps coming in second or third! Why can't I win? Sometimes he gives in to snuggling in bed with me at this point (usually 12:30-1am). I am way too exhausted to stay up with him. Other times he just keeps playing and I'm not sure when he gets in bed! ;(
I sometimes sit next to him and watch. He gets so explosive with a loss that he will lash out at whoever is near. Just yesterday I could tell he was at explosion point and asked if he wanted to walk the dogs with me. He said yes, but then as the game ended he jumped up and attacked me, his whole body shaking and eyes popping out. I was scared and was grateful his body is still small enough that he can't truly hurt me! He came on the walk and calmed down. I explained how scary that attack was for me, and how scary and dangerous it is for his brothers when he does it to them. He seems to take it in. We get home, he runs straight back to the computer to play more. No more violent episodes that day. Phew.
Is there an addiction component? Am I evolving into what I saw discussed a few days ago "free range" parenting? Do I just let them play MC because it requires so little from me?! Anyone else here struggling with similar issues? I feel alone in this world, like everyone around me is not safe to talk to. Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer all day?????
Thank you for input and wisdom!!
Warmly,
Ali
haydee deldenovese
Ali
I am still in the deschooling process and before we began to deschool, I
had a media policy. My children were not allowed to watch tv unless it was
movie night for the family, and they were certainly not allowed to play
computer games.
When we began to deschool, I started to slowly let go of all those rules
and restrictions, and now I do see my children feeling more in control with
what they want to do. However (and I know a lot of parents will NOT agree
with this) I do have A rule when it comes time to the computer games. I
have a 7 and a 4 yr old, and the rule is that they are not allowed to play
any games or whatch tv until they have had breakfast and brushed their
teeth. I feel that at their age, they are waaaay too young to be looking at
a screen for endless hours, although if they want to, I don't say no.
What I have noticed is that with the bfst & teeth first rule, it allows
time for their little brains to fully wake up and think about the day.
During that time I usually ask them what they would like to do, and add
some ideas to theirs, so they can make choices on what they would like to
do. There have been times when my son (4) wants to play in the computer
first hand and days like that I let him, while I do dishes, sweep or brush
and walk the dogs. Then once I'm ready, I will offer him a drink that he
must have on the kitchen table (the computer is also in the kitchen, like a
foot away from the table) and at that moment I can have his attention and
it is when I offer the next fun thing to do. Very excitedly I will say Oh,
your sister and I were thinking about going outside and look for rocks, or
make a fire, or whatever it may be. Most of the time, he will come with me
and say can I finish my game later, mom? And I say of course, so I will
save it for him, and we have a great time doing other fun things. I always
remind him that the computer and the game will ALWAYS be there, so he can
always get back to it.
I would say that in your situation, if your young boy is watching the
behavior of the oldest boys, it very well could be what he is learning. It
may be something he can use to relate to his sibblings, and he might enjoy
it just as much, but at the age of 4, I feel like children can find the
simplest things so interesting and amusing, that all it takes is an
invitation to another world. Perhaps you can invite him outdoors with your
2 yr old to act out some of the mindcraft games, and that might also help
you see what he is learning and picking up from the games. I am not
familiar with mindcraft yet, but I would be a little concern as well, being
that he is sooo young.
I would suggest that you listen to your inner voice. As mothers we all
have that instinc, that internal mother voice that tells us when something
is or isn't wrong, and I tnk that you should listen to that. Many other
moms like me will have our opinions, but I truly feel that deep down you
know exactly what feels right, and what would be best for him at this time.
I know that as an unschooling parent we want our children to make the
choices and we want them to have their own voice, but I tnk that with all
that, we can also continue being a mom. In the wild, a mother lion will let
her cub venture out and explore, but when she sees or feels danger, she
will protect her young, at any cost. I don't think we are any different,
and I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to take charge in
parenting out young ones.
I wish you the best outcome both for you and your son...
Haydee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am still in the deschooling process and before we began to deschool, I
had a media policy. My children were not allowed to watch tv unless it was
movie night for the family, and they were certainly not allowed to play
computer games.
When we began to deschool, I started to slowly let go of all those rules
and restrictions, and now I do see my children feeling more in control with
what they want to do. However (and I know a lot of parents will NOT agree
with this) I do have A rule when it comes time to the computer games. I
have a 7 and a 4 yr old, and the rule is that they are not allowed to play
any games or whatch tv until they have had breakfast and brushed their
teeth. I feel that at their age, they are waaaay too young to be looking at
a screen for endless hours, although if they want to, I don't say no.
What I have noticed is that with the bfst & teeth first rule, it allows
time for their little brains to fully wake up and think about the day.
During that time I usually ask them what they would like to do, and add
some ideas to theirs, so they can make choices on what they would like to
do. There have been times when my son (4) wants to play in the computer
first hand and days like that I let him, while I do dishes, sweep or brush
and walk the dogs. Then once I'm ready, I will offer him a drink that he
must have on the kitchen table (the computer is also in the kitchen, like a
foot away from the table) and at that moment I can have his attention and
it is when I offer the next fun thing to do. Very excitedly I will say Oh,
your sister and I were thinking about going outside and look for rocks, or
make a fire, or whatever it may be. Most of the time, he will come with me
and say can I finish my game later, mom? And I say of course, so I will
save it for him, and we have a great time doing other fun things. I always
remind him that the computer and the game will ALWAYS be there, so he can
always get back to it.
I would say that in your situation, if your young boy is watching the
behavior of the oldest boys, it very well could be what he is learning. It
may be something he can use to relate to his sibblings, and he might enjoy
it just as much, but at the age of 4, I feel like children can find the
simplest things so interesting and amusing, that all it takes is an
invitation to another world. Perhaps you can invite him outdoors with your
2 yr old to act out some of the mindcraft games, and that might also help
you see what he is learning and picking up from the games. I am not
familiar with mindcraft yet, but I would be a little concern as well, being
that he is sooo young.
I would suggest that you listen to your inner voice. As mothers we all
have that instinc, that internal mother voice that tells us when something
is or isn't wrong, and I tnk that you should listen to that. Many other
moms like me will have our opinions, but I truly feel that deep down you
know exactly what feels right, and what would be best for him at this time.
I know that as an unschooling parent we want our children to make the
choices and we want them to have their own voice, but I tnk that with all
that, we can also continue being a mom. In the wild, a mother lion will let
her cub venture out and explore, but when she sees or feels danger, she
will protect her young, at any cost. I don't think we are any different,
and I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to take charge in
parenting out young ones.
I wish you the best outcome both for you and your son...
Haydee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lucy.web
On 10 Mar 2013, at 15:14, Ali Zeljo <azeljo@...> wrote:
I don't play Minecraft, but I have played many other computer games in the past. When the girls and I sit down to chat about stuff, they *love* to tell me about whatever new discoveries they've made that day about Minecraft. I have been *amazed* at what they've been learning. Currently, my 11 year old has been talking about wanting to make a 'trading place' within the game, so that set us off talking about trading, and money systems, and we have started watching a documentary series together about economics, to give her idea of how her trading place might pan out. There's been a steep learning curve for all of us when wondering together whether we can make our own server. My younger daughter - who loves to watch videos of her favourite 'team' undertaking challenges has been making all sorts of discoveries about group dynamics: how this (adult) person said this and that made that other person respond like this and why didn't he say it a different way? etc. Fascinating. Discussions about swearing and what some people might/might not find offensive have also come up, and I really welcomed that opportunity to discuss things - because I've been wondering when that would come up.
Those things are in addition to all the more obvious in-game skills learning that you can find out about online. It seems to me that the learning opportunities within Minecraft are pretty much endless. It's a huge, whole world with limitless possibilities. It also seems to me that the 'immersive' element of it is just the same as being immersed in lego, but maybe even more understandable: they can build anything, with, or without other people joining in. They can explore what other people on the other side of the world have built, too. It's pretty amazing. And, as I said, I don't play it myself, so that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.
I make sure they have food and drinks to hand, sometimes I suggest something we can do together outside. Not because I'm trying to interrupt what they're doing (because it does feel a bit like an interruption) but because I'm doing something that I think they will enjoy. They usually choose to stop playing for a while and come and do the different thing with me: they know they can go back to Minecraft whenever they like.
Perhaps instead of suggesting things your children might like to do *instead* of the game, you could use what's going on with the game to suggest other things they may be interested in exploring? With my daughters, any hint of: "Why don't you stop doing that for a while and come and do this instead?" is a recipe for disaster. However, their current interest in Minecraft is a doorway through which we can explore in many different directions.
Lucy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> For about a year, the oldest three have been playing Minecraft.My two daughters - aged 9 and 11 - also love Minecraft, and spend many hours most days playing it, or watching videos of other people playing it. We downloaded the 'Technic' launcher which has variations on Minecraft on there, and they have been trying out the different tools and versions and comparing what's different with each version. They've also started playing with other kids on servers, and our next step is to set up Skype so they can better communicate with all the new friends out there.
I don't play Minecraft, but I have played many other computer games in the past. When the girls and I sit down to chat about stuff, they *love* to tell me about whatever new discoveries they've made that day about Minecraft. I have been *amazed* at what they've been learning. Currently, my 11 year old has been talking about wanting to make a 'trading place' within the game, so that set us off talking about trading, and money systems, and we have started watching a documentary series together about economics, to give her idea of how her trading place might pan out. There's been a steep learning curve for all of us when wondering together whether we can make our own server. My younger daughter - who loves to watch videos of her favourite 'team' undertaking challenges has been making all sorts of discoveries about group dynamics: how this (adult) person said this and that made that other person respond like this and why didn't he say it a different way? etc. Fascinating. Discussions about swearing and what some people might/might not find offensive have also come up, and I really welcomed that opportunity to discuss things - because I've been wondering when that would come up.
Those things are in addition to all the more obvious in-game skills learning that you can find out about online. It seems to me that the learning opportunities within Minecraft are pretty much endless. It's a huge, whole world with limitless possibilities. It also seems to me that the 'immersive' element of it is just the same as being immersed in lego, but maybe even more understandable: they can build anything, with, or without other people joining in. They can explore what other people on the other side of the world have built, too. It's pretty amazing. And, as I said, I don't play it myself, so that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.
I make sure they have food and drinks to hand, sometimes I suggest something we can do together outside. Not because I'm trying to interrupt what they're doing (because it does feel a bit like an interruption) but because I'm doing something that I think they will enjoy. They usually choose to stop playing for a while and come and do the different thing with me: they know they can go back to Minecraft whenever they like.
Perhaps instead of suggesting things your children might like to do *instead* of the game, you could use what's going on with the game to suggest other things they may be interested in exploring? With my daughters, any hint of: "Why don't you stop doing that for a while and come and do this instead?" is a recipe for disaster. However, their current interest in Minecraft is a doorway through which we can explore in many different directions.
Lucy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Virginia Warren
If your son woke up every day and played guitar all day, had his own
website where people played guitar together, spent the rest of his time
watching guitar videos, toted his guitar around the house when he wasn't
playing, would you describe him as being "addicted" to guitar? I suspect
most people would call such a child a "prodigy" or "virtuoso".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
website where people played guitar together, spent the rest of his time
watching guitar videos, toted his guitar around the house when he wasn't
playing, would you describe him as being "addicted" to guitar? I suspect
most people would call such a child a "prodigy" or "virtuoso".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's a huge, whole world with limitless possibilities. It also seems to me that the 'immersive' element of it is just the same as being immersed in lego, but maybe even more understandable: they can build anything, with, or without other people joining in. They can explore what other people on the other side of the world have built, too. It's pretty amazing.-=-
And they're learning about computers, and programming, to some extent. And they're learning to learn from other people, directly and indirectly.
As to hours of Lego, Marty's current job is (I don't know the job title) setting up shelves at Target. He works from diagrams sent from the level above to match stores with their store's layout. Sometimes there's a structural aspect of the store (ceiling support post or something) that doesn't exactly match the ideal, and he figures out how to work around it. Because once the shelves are up it's also his job to put the label that tells what goes where, also from diagrams. He said it's like working a giant Lego set. :-)
But a week ago, armored up at a medieval-studies-group "war," he got a slightly broken arm. Broken, but not definite without an x-ray. So he can't work for a few weeks, and is on a medical leave of absence. So he and his girlfriend left this morning for a weeklong road trip through Nevada and Utah. I got to hear all the ideas and planning. It started off to be southern Arizona to San Diego, and as they talked about why and where and how, it became parts of Nevada they hadn't seen, and Salt Lake City, over to stay with friends in Colorado on the way home.
I know for certain that some of Marty's planning and negotiation skills have come from the gaming he's been doing his whole life. He sees it in terms of cost, efficient use of resources (which vehicle to take, where to stay, how many free-to-cheap "moves" (overnight stays) can earn them one expensive night in a themed hotel in Salt Lake City, how to make it up to Ashlee that San Diego, her first choice, didn't make the final plan, and how best to meet friends in Las Vegas to see haunted sites, and whether it's worth buying expensive Penn and Teller tickets or risking not seeing them on the hope of getting less expensive tickets. ALL that reasoning CAN be learned from hours and hours of gaming with other people (known or unknown others). It can't even nearly be learned from textbooks and workbooks. Not a bit of it.
I know the subject line is "Minecraft support," but that's not what you need. You need clarity support, and more understanding of the principles that can help you see all sorts of things in the context of natural learning and peaceful parenting.
http://sandradodd.com/clarity
http://sandradodd.com/rules
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles.html
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And they're learning about computers, and programming, to some extent. And they're learning to learn from other people, directly and indirectly.
As to hours of Lego, Marty's current job is (I don't know the job title) setting up shelves at Target. He works from diagrams sent from the level above to match stores with their store's layout. Sometimes there's a structural aspect of the store (ceiling support post or something) that doesn't exactly match the ideal, and he figures out how to work around it. Because once the shelves are up it's also his job to put the label that tells what goes where, also from diagrams. He said it's like working a giant Lego set. :-)
But a week ago, armored up at a medieval-studies-group "war," he got a slightly broken arm. Broken, but not definite without an x-ray. So he can't work for a few weeks, and is on a medical leave of absence. So he and his girlfriend left this morning for a weeklong road trip through Nevada and Utah. I got to hear all the ideas and planning. It started off to be southern Arizona to San Diego, and as they talked about why and where and how, it became parts of Nevada they hadn't seen, and Salt Lake City, over to stay with friends in Colorado on the way home.
I know for certain that some of Marty's planning and negotiation skills have come from the gaming he's been doing his whole life. He sees it in terms of cost, efficient use of resources (which vehicle to take, where to stay, how many free-to-cheap "moves" (overnight stays) can earn them one expensive night in a themed hotel in Salt Lake City, how to make it up to Ashlee that San Diego, her first choice, didn't make the final plan, and how best to meet friends in Las Vegas to see haunted sites, and whether it's worth buying expensive Penn and Teller tickets or risking not seeing them on the hope of getting less expensive tickets. ALL that reasoning CAN be learned from hours and hours of gaming with other people (known or unknown others). It can't even nearly be learned from textbooks and workbooks. Not a bit of it.
I know the subject line is "Minecraft support," but that's not what you need. You need clarity support, and more understanding of the principles that can help you see all sorts of things in the context of natural learning and peaceful parenting.
http://sandradodd.com/clarity
http://sandradodd.com/rules
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles.html
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shauna Reisewitz
I think that listening to your mama intuition (not necessarily your fears) is an important part of unschooling. If your mama intuition says this is unhealthy for your 4 year old, maybe it is.
This may not be a popular opinion on this list, but I think it is quite different neurologically for a 4 year old to spend every waking hour on screen time than a 11 year old or 13 year old.
But I have found that separating mama's intuition from cultural fear is an important process. And following that mama intuition is valuable. I still nurse my 5 yo for example. Intuitively, it doesn't feel right to stop. Intuitively I know my children need plenty of sunshine and exercise and play time too.
To let any cultural practice get in the way of our mama intuition, to me is an unhealthy way to parent. The biggest challenge for any of us may be to separate our mama intuition from cultural fear.
This may not be a popular opinion on this list, but I think it is quite different neurologically for a 4 year old to spend every waking hour on screen time than a 11 year old or 13 year old.
But I have found that separating mama's intuition from cultural fear is an important process. And following that mama intuition is valuable. I still nurse my 5 yo for example. Intuitively, it doesn't feel right to stop. Intuitively I know my children need plenty of sunshine and exercise and play time too.
To let any cultural practice get in the way of our mama intuition, to me is an unhealthy way to parent. The biggest challenge for any of us may be to separate our mama intuition from cultural fear.
dezignarob
This is a really long and detailed post, and I appreciate that because it is a lot of information. I like how you described the typical day. However I think you are braiding some issues together - your kids' different behaviors and some fears about yourself. I want to point out a couple of things. Before going forward I will say that I have a 13 year old full-time gamer - World of Warcraft and some The Sims, rarely Minecraft - who has been gaming focused for...gosh...four or five years. She also enjoys watching You Tube vids of other people gaming, and I hear her laughing out loud over and over.
Evidently your children have different temperaments. This does not affect the principles of unschooling, but it changes how they applied practically.
=== for about a year.....first 6 years of his life it was basketball. .....The next 6-7 years were Lego ===
You are seeing something different in only one year, versus the 6 year cycle of these other passions. Is it an appearance of intensity? The 6 year passions changed with time.
=== I've learned that doing nothing at first is usually wise, observing and waiting-- usually things unravel and solve themselves. ===
It will not support unschooling to see passions as problems (is that what you mean by "things") to "unravel and solve themselves". I think you mean "do nothing harmful" or "avoid nagging or pushing or coercing". Do you?
But just to be clear, unschooling is not "doing nothing" about passions. It is about actively supporting them, and finding ways to see how our children value passions even when we may not appreciate them in the same way.
=== This is the first time the passion looks like addiction at times ===
When you write this, I'm not sure what you mean, or which child you are referring to. What does "look like addiction" mean?
Writers in mainstream media and parenting often use the word "addiction" fuzzily in reference to electronic media and new technologies in a way that they never use to other children's activities. I notice that it is also sometimes used in reference to adult gaming. I think part of it has to do with the concept of productivity - person is spending their time in a leisure activity instead of producing something. In the case of children, whom they assume are in school, they are not producing measurable education. Even when they see some learning, they don't consider it to be as valuable as school academics.
I think it is unhelpful to unschooling to use the jargon of addiction about our children's activities or pleasures. It's a filter that can cast every simple action as a negative.
=== The youngest player was 3 when he started. He is a marvel- the tiny little fingers expertly controlling that boxy figure.....I see him learning to read words, typing tons of commands, learning strategies, making friends...===
This may sound odd, but you may have a bona fide genius here. He is doing things at 4 that many other people are starting at 8, 9 and older. It's unlikely to help him be happy to try to steer him to younger person activities. The learning going on sounds wonderful, and if you look for specifics you will see even more, like the kinds of skills and things that Sandra mentioned.
Try to add even more of their passion to their lives, like Minecraft themed tee shirts, Minecraft books and strategy guides, access to game design software and websites. Go to Minecon (not sure if there is a minimum age) if you can. There is an Unschoolers Gaming group too, which is packed with miners.
=== But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow ===
Are you afraid he has jaundice? Because sitting at a computer isn't listed as a cause for that. If he has liver problems that is another issue.
Are you worried about vitamin D from lack of sun? I like gummy vites and Emergen-C vitamin drink powders. Jayn does too. She also loves smoothies.
=== There is a part of me that feels like he is missing out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy... It is very easy to just leave him playing minecraft with his brothers.... How do I decide if this is a problem that I need to do something about? ===
I suspect you feel like you are missing out on him. I wonder if you can find a few moments to spend time with him alone, while he plays, and ask him questions about what he is doing, ask him to show you things that he likes about the games - you focus on him, rather than hope that he joins in with you and his little brother.
My daughter is 13. They continue to be fabulous years. Because there is no school caused separation, no refocus onto peers and loss of attachment, the interaction is still wonderful - even though it is different.
===HEADLINE: parents "unschool" kid and from age 3, he spends every waking minute gaming on Minecraft until he can no longer do anything else. He is so addicted and entrenched in the Minecraft world, that his fingers can't leave the keyboard- even though he wants to do other things===
But he doesn't want to do other things at the moment. He has the opportunity to do other things freely and is choosing Minecraft.
That is true isn't it? There isn't the lurking fear that you or Dad are going to take it all away is there? Were there limits before? Are the computers new? Are you still in the honeymoon? I got the idea that this was long term.
=== But the 9 year old tends to get angry, loud, and violent. These issues are scary for me.===
This is in great part a temperament issue, I suspect. Jayn would react physically to her frustrations much more strongly when younger - but she grew out of it almost entirely. Now she is able to verbalize frustrations - but she continues to work through to her gaming goals with great tenacity and perseverance sometimes over months, which are terrific personal characteristics.
The thing that made, and makes, the biggest difference to her serenity and ability to stay calmer in the face of adversity is FOOD. Make sure your 9 year old has snacks and drinks beside him before you leave him for the night. He may need more small snacks more frequently than the others to keep his emotions on a more even keel.
Something others have suggested in the past is something like a mini-trampoline set up right by the computer, so that a child can jump while watching a You Tube of a game unfold, for just a few minutes.
Perhaps he needs something like a sock-em thing - those things that bounce back when you punch them - to move with physically. I used to put my hands up for Jayn to hit and push on, which quickly resolved to wrestling and pushing. But it can be hard, and you might be better just not being right next to him if he explodes. Better still to catch it early and give him some food, remind him to breath deeply, and model other calming strategies, as well as sympathize with his frustrations.
Jayn and I will sometimes throw a small pillow back and forth to each other while she watches Yogscast in the background. Sometimes she dances around too.
Robyn Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Evidently your children have different temperaments. This does not affect the principles of unschooling, but it changes how they applied practically.
=== for about a year.....first 6 years of his life it was basketball. .....The next 6-7 years were Lego ===
You are seeing something different in only one year, versus the 6 year cycle of these other passions. Is it an appearance of intensity? The 6 year passions changed with time.
=== I've learned that doing nothing at first is usually wise, observing and waiting-- usually things unravel and solve themselves. ===
It will not support unschooling to see passions as problems (is that what you mean by "things") to "unravel and solve themselves". I think you mean "do nothing harmful" or "avoid nagging or pushing or coercing". Do you?
But just to be clear, unschooling is not "doing nothing" about passions. It is about actively supporting them, and finding ways to see how our children value passions even when we may not appreciate them in the same way.
=== This is the first time the passion looks like addiction at times ===
When you write this, I'm not sure what you mean, or which child you are referring to. What does "look like addiction" mean?
Writers in mainstream media and parenting often use the word "addiction" fuzzily in reference to electronic media and new technologies in a way that they never use to other children's activities. I notice that it is also sometimes used in reference to adult gaming. I think part of it has to do with the concept of productivity - person is spending their time in a leisure activity instead of producing something. In the case of children, whom they assume are in school, they are not producing measurable education. Even when they see some learning, they don't consider it to be as valuable as school academics.
I think it is unhelpful to unschooling to use the jargon of addiction about our children's activities or pleasures. It's a filter that can cast every simple action as a negative.
=== The youngest player was 3 when he started. He is a marvel- the tiny little fingers expertly controlling that boxy figure.....I see him learning to read words, typing tons of commands, learning strategies, making friends...===
This may sound odd, but you may have a bona fide genius here. He is doing things at 4 that many other people are starting at 8, 9 and older. It's unlikely to help him be happy to try to steer him to younger person activities. The learning going on sounds wonderful, and if you look for specifics you will see even more, like the kinds of skills and things that Sandra mentioned.
Try to add even more of their passion to their lives, like Minecraft themed tee shirts, Minecraft books and strategy guides, access to game design software and websites. Go to Minecon (not sure if there is a minimum age) if you can. There is an Unschoolers Gaming group too, which is packed with miners.
=== But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow ===
Are you afraid he has jaundice? Because sitting at a computer isn't listed as a cause for that. If he has liver problems that is another issue.
Are you worried about vitamin D from lack of sun? I like gummy vites and Emergen-C vitamin drink powders. Jayn does too. She also loves smoothies.
=== There is a part of me that feels like he is missing out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy... It is very easy to just leave him playing minecraft with his brothers.... How do I decide if this is a problem that I need to do something about? ===
I suspect you feel like you are missing out on him. I wonder if you can find a few moments to spend time with him alone, while he plays, and ask him questions about what he is doing, ask him to show you things that he likes about the games - you focus on him, rather than hope that he joins in with you and his little brother.
My daughter is 13. They continue to be fabulous years. Because there is no school caused separation, no refocus onto peers and loss of attachment, the interaction is still wonderful - even though it is different.
===HEADLINE: parents "unschool" kid and from age 3, he spends every waking minute gaming on Minecraft until he can no longer do anything else. He is so addicted and entrenched in the Minecraft world, that his fingers can't leave the keyboard- even though he wants to do other things===
But he doesn't want to do other things at the moment. He has the opportunity to do other things freely and is choosing Minecraft.
That is true isn't it? There isn't the lurking fear that you or Dad are going to take it all away is there? Were there limits before? Are the computers new? Are you still in the honeymoon? I got the idea that this was long term.
=== But the 9 year old tends to get angry, loud, and violent. These issues are scary for me.===
This is in great part a temperament issue, I suspect. Jayn would react physically to her frustrations much more strongly when younger - but she grew out of it almost entirely. Now she is able to verbalize frustrations - but she continues to work through to her gaming goals with great tenacity and perseverance sometimes over months, which are terrific personal characteristics.
The thing that made, and makes, the biggest difference to her serenity and ability to stay calmer in the face of adversity is FOOD. Make sure your 9 year old has snacks and drinks beside him before you leave him for the night. He may need more small snacks more frequently than the others to keep his emotions on a more even keel.
Something others have suggested in the past is something like a mini-trampoline set up right by the computer, so that a child can jump while watching a You Tube of a game unfold, for just a few minutes.
Perhaps he needs something like a sock-em thing - those things that bounce back when you punch them - to move with physically. I used to put my hands up for Jayn to hit and push on, which quickly resolved to wrestling and pushing. But it can be hard, and you might be better just not being right next to him if he explodes. Better still to catch it early and give him some food, remind him to breath deeply, and model other calming strategies, as well as sympathize with his frustrations.
Jayn and I will sometimes throw a small pillow back and forth to each other while she watches Yogscast in the background. Sometimes she dances around too.
Robyn Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
dezignarob
=== I explained how scary that attack was for me, and how scary and dangerous it is for his brothers when he does it to them. ===
My other reply was getting long, so I wanted to pull this our separately.
It is good you had this talk in private. It is good to do it side by side while in the midst of another activity, like walking. It will take more than one time.
However, just to clarify, is this perfectly accurate? Are all his brothers afraid, even the elder?
When Jayn was much younger and sometimes hit others, I would always focus on the hurt child first, ask them if they were ok, how they felt, get the story, apologize on Jayn's behalf. I would talk to Jayn separately about why she hit out (there was always some provocation from her pov). But the biggest help was pointing out what showed me the other child's feelings accurately - such as that she was crying.
It is not enough to stop there, with how it is scary for you when he does something. It is important to help him verbalize his feelings - he may be scaring himself too.
He needs help to learn to recognize the clues that his head of steam is building - and of course when he is getting hungry - much earlier. But even more important, he needs to learn other strategies for coping with his own frustration, whether it be deep breathing, bouncing, walking away briefly, jumping jacks, a cuddle, whatever it is. Most likely at your suggestion at first, in a trial and error manner, investigating what feels right to feel better.
Then he should not be alone with his brothers when there is a danger of an explosion, while he is still learning these strategies. It really has to be your job to protect the others, especially the littles. I only assume that he is alone with them sometimes because you say === when he does it to them. ===
So it's not an addiction. It's a learning opportunity to learn life skills that will help him forever.
Robyn Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
My other reply was getting long, so I wanted to pull this our separately.
It is good you had this talk in private. It is good to do it side by side while in the midst of another activity, like walking. It will take more than one time.
However, just to clarify, is this perfectly accurate? Are all his brothers afraid, even the elder?
When Jayn was much younger and sometimes hit others, I would always focus on the hurt child first, ask them if they were ok, how they felt, get the story, apologize on Jayn's behalf. I would talk to Jayn separately about why she hit out (there was always some provocation from her pov). But the biggest help was pointing out what showed me the other child's feelings accurately - such as that she was crying.
It is not enough to stop there, with how it is scary for you when he does something. It is important to help him verbalize his feelings - he may be scaring himself too.
He needs help to learn to recognize the clues that his head of steam is building - and of course when he is getting hungry - much earlier. But even more important, he needs to learn other strategies for coping with his own frustration, whether it be deep breathing, bouncing, walking away briefly, jumping jacks, a cuddle, whatever it is. Most likely at your suggestion at first, in a trial and error manner, investigating what feels right to feel better.
Then he should not be alone with his brothers when there is a danger of an explosion, while he is still learning these strategies. It really has to be your job to protect the others, especially the littles. I only assume that he is alone with them sometimes because you say === when he does it to them. ===
So it's not an addiction. It's a learning opportunity to learn life skills that will help him forever.
Robyn Coburn
http://www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Bernadette Lynn
On 10 March 2013 14:14, Ali Zeljo <azeljo@...> wrote:
If he doesn't get out into the sun much, maybe you could set his computer
up near a window, so he can sit in the sun sometimes while playing. I don't
know what the weather is like there, it's winter here currently and we
haven't had much sun for a while and it's been cold enough that the
children haven't really wanted to play outside much so we've had a lot of
Minecraft. Our computer is set up in a room which gets a lot of sun and
when it's warm enough outside we open the door and let fresh air in as
well. Sometimes we even take the laptops into the garden and sit with them
there, but it's been a while since it was warm enough to enjoy that.
====================
Why not bring some toys for the 2 year old to play with where the others
are playing, so you can sit by them and watch them for a while? Not just
checking in but sitting and talking about what they're doing - interacting?
==========================
This seems and odd way to put it. Why not say "When friends come over they
go outside to play kickball"?
============================
to stop for the night too, especially when he has friends online and is
enjoying playing with them. If I go to bed before him I make up few snacks
for him - sandwiches, cucumber slices, frankfurter pieces, things like
that. I put them in lidded boxes on the desk next to him so he can eat when
he wants; anything he doesn't eat he puts in the fridge when he goes to
bed. I also make him a big glass of Ribena and sometimes give him a bottle
of water so he's got plenty to drink as well. When he has enough to eat and
drink he not only plays better but doesn't get as stressed about how things
are going.
I've spent a lot of time over the last few months distracting and hugging
and bringing food and talking about how to calm down and reminding David
that his friends don't hate him.
We've been really impressed at how well David is responding to frustrations
lately. He's got really good at explaining to his friends why he's upset if
they do something he doesn't like; he's much less bothered by losing, now,
and if he's really upset, even to the point of shouting or crying, he'll
take a deep breath and deliberately calm himself down before going on. I
sometimes ask him to come and have a hug if he's getting really upset at
something, but that's happening less and less often as he gets better at
handling things himself.
Bernadette.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow.================
If he doesn't get out into the sun much, maybe you could set his computer
up near a window, so he can sit in the sun sometimes while playing. I don't
know what the weather is like there, it's winter here currently and we
haven't had much sun for a while and it's been cold enough that the
children haven't really wanted to play outside much so we've had a lot of
Minecraft. Our computer is set up in a room which gets a lot of sun and
when it's warm enough outside we open the door and let fresh air in as
well. Sometimes we even take the laptops into the garden and sit with them
there, but it's been a while since it was warm enough to enjoy that.
====================
> And he is SO young! There is a part of me that feels like he is missing==========================
> out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy! I
> check in with him and ask him about what he's doing
Why not bring some toys for the 2 year old to play with where the others
are playing, so you can sit by them and watch them for a while? Not just
checking in but sitting and talking about what they're doing - interacting?
==========================
> they have friends who come over and entice them outside to play kickball,=======================
This seems and odd way to put it. Why not say "When friends come over they
go outside to play kickball"?
============================
> The pattern has been that as the evening comes on, he gets more and moreHe's certainly got drive and determination. My nine-year-old finds it hard
> desperate to win one game! He plays over and over, getting more and more
> heightened. He cannot go to bed. He must win! He is getting so tired,
> everyone else in the house has fallen asleep. He is still awake, trying
> again and again! I wake up, I hear him crying! He is SO tired. He can't
> stop.
> ================================
>
to stop for the night too, especially when he has friends online and is
enjoying playing with them. If I go to bed before him I make up few snacks
for him - sandwiches, cucumber slices, frankfurter pieces, things like
that. I put them in lidded boxes on the desk next to him so he can eat when
he wants; anything he doesn't eat he puts in the fridge when he goes to
bed. I also make him a big glass of Ribena and sometimes give him a bottle
of water so he's got plenty to drink as well. When he has enough to eat and
drink he not only plays better but doesn't get as stressed about how things
are going.
I've spent a lot of time over the last few months distracting and hugging
and bringing food and talking about how to calm down and reminding David
that his friends don't hate him.
We've been really impressed at how well David is responding to frustrations
lately. He's got really good at explaining to his friends why he's upset if
they do something he doesn't like; he's much less bothered by losing, now,
and if he's really upset, even to the point of shouting or crying, he'll
take a deep breath and deliberately calm himself down before going on. I
sometimes ask him to come and have a hug if he's getting really upset at
something, but that's happening less and less often as he gets better at
handling things himself.
Bernadette.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-We've been really impressed at how well David is responding to frustrations
lately. He's got really good at explaining to his friends why he's upset if
they do something he doesn't like; he's much less bothered by losing, now,
and if he's really upset, even to the point of shouting or crying, he'll
take a deep breath and deliberately calm himself down before going on. I
sometimes ask him to come and have a hug if he's getting really upset at
something, but that's happening less and less often as he gets better at
handling things himself.-=-
Kirby was a reactionary, controller-throwing kid, when he was younger. Nine, ten.
Now nearly 20 years later, he works as a guy who keeps a group of people calm and peaceful and on task.
He, too, showed quick progress in learning to calm himself, but we helped by not flipping out back at him (a couple of times I was loud or too reactive myself; he came by it naturally), and we helped him find tools and tricks to see that he had gone too far and not to go that far the next time.
Martial arts helped him, too. He started taking karate when he was ten or so, and was involved in that until he was grown.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lately. He's got really good at explaining to his friends why he's upset if
they do something he doesn't like; he's much less bothered by losing, now,
and if he's really upset, even to the point of shouting or crying, he'll
take a deep breath and deliberately calm himself down before going on. I
sometimes ask him to come and have a hug if he's getting really upset at
something, but that's happening less and less often as he gets better at
handling things himself.-=-
Kirby was a reactionary, controller-throwing kid, when he was younger. Nine, ten.
Now nearly 20 years later, he works as a guy who keeps a group of people calm and peaceful and on task.
He, too, showed quick progress in learning to calm himself, but we helped by not flipping out back at him (a couple of times I was loud or too reactive myself; he came by it naturally), and we helped him find tools and tricks to see that he had gone too far and not to go that far the next time.
Martial arts helped him, too. He started taking karate when he was ten or so, and was involved in that until he was grown.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-This may not be a popular opinion on this list, but I think it is quite different neurologically for a 4 year old to spend every waking hour on screen time than a 11 year old or 13 year old. -=-
"Screen time" itself is a problem idea, and nobody is recommending that any person "spend every waking hour" on anything except maybe making the best available choices as time passes.
The mom was describing it as a fear of others' perceptions. Rather than assuming that would have been a reasonable description and assumption, it's better to assume that she wants unschoolers to help her see it from an unschooling point of view. And regardless of what any one family ultimately decides, for the purposes of this discussion, we will looke at the issues and situations in an unschooling light.
Exaggerations like "every waking hour" are more likely to be kneejerk recitation than direct observation of one's actual child.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
"Screentime" is not a legitimate construct in a discussion about learning and hobbies, and "screentime" can't be separated from playtime, because play takes all kinds of forms.
http://sandradodd.com/screentime
Some children need more physical play than others. Mothers who want to decide in advance how much that should be might be the same kinds of moms to tell their kids exactly what and when, where and how to eat; and then they might think they know how to teach their children to read, and what exactly they should know about history and science. That's legal, and can be fun (especially for the mom, maybe not for the child), but it's not the purpose of this discussion.
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
-=-I think that listening to your mama intuition (not necessarily your fears) is an important part of unschooling. -=-
If whatever any mother thinks is as legitimate as what any other mother thinks, and if whatever a mother does is to be justified with "that was my intuition," then there's no reason to have a discussion like this, nor any discussion.
If a mother is accepting and supportive of her child's interests, which will be different for each child, then she's helping that child learn while she learns more about that child�each child. She can't just "have an intuition" that covers all of her children in advance and for all their lives.
Some mothers are sure their intuition to spank and slam a kid into time out is sensible. Intuition is quite variable, among humans. Some have more of it than others; some have nearly none. Encouraging parents to learn to pay attention to their intuition is good. But here's the thing: If they had been allowed from a very early age to make more of their own decisions, those with the inborn ability to make those kinds of decisions would be GREAT at it by the time they were older! So advising a mom to follow her intuition to limit her child's choices in these instances has an inherent flaw.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Screen time" itself is a problem idea, and nobody is recommending that any person "spend every waking hour" on anything except maybe making the best available choices as time passes.
The mom was describing it as a fear of others' perceptions. Rather than assuming that would have been a reasonable description and assumption, it's better to assume that she wants unschoolers to help her see it from an unschooling point of view. And regardless of what any one family ultimately decides, for the purposes of this discussion, we will looke at the issues and situations in an unschooling light.
Exaggerations like "every waking hour" are more likely to be kneejerk recitation than direct observation of one's actual child.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
"Screentime" is not a legitimate construct in a discussion about learning and hobbies, and "screentime" can't be separated from playtime, because play takes all kinds of forms.
http://sandradodd.com/screentime
Some children need more physical play than others. Mothers who want to decide in advance how much that should be might be the same kinds of moms to tell their kids exactly what and when, where and how to eat; and then they might think they know how to teach their children to read, and what exactly they should know about history and science. That's legal, and can be fun (especially for the mom, maybe not for the child), but it's not the purpose of this discussion.
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
-=-I think that listening to your mama intuition (not necessarily your fears) is an important part of unschooling. -=-
If whatever any mother thinks is as legitimate as what any other mother thinks, and if whatever a mother does is to be justified with "that was my intuition," then there's no reason to have a discussion like this, nor any discussion.
If a mother is accepting and supportive of her child's interests, which will be different for each child, then she's helping that child learn while she learns more about that child�each child. She can't just "have an intuition" that covers all of her children in advance and for all their lives.
Some mothers are sure their intuition to spank and slam a kid into time out is sensible. Intuition is quite variable, among humans. Some have more of it than others; some have nearly none. Encouraging parents to learn to pay attention to their intuition is good. But here's the thing: If they had been allowed from a very early age to make more of their own decisions, those with the inborn ability to make those kinds of decisions would be GREAT at it by the time they were older! So advising a mom to follow her intuition to limit her child's choices in these instances has an inherent flaw.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dola Dasgupta
*****To let any cultural practice get in the way of our mama intuition, to me is
an unhealthy way to parent. The biggest challenge for any of us may be to
separate our mama intuition from cultural fear.*******
This statement I feel is confusing..as I feel perhaps often the mama
intuition is suppressed by the cultural fear and cultural fear is mistaken
as mama intuition....
I feel perhaps the maternal intuition would be the well being of the
child..and the cultural fear perhaps in this case is the 'fear of video
games as an addiction.."
If one were to perhaps go with the maternal intuition then the mother would
try out the suggestions that are time and again given by many on this list
about video games, TV, Internet and partnering those with the child.
If one were to perhaps really work towards the well being of the child then
looking at the passion as an addiction is not going to help I feel.
My son Ishaan is seven years old and is totally into Legos...He builds
Legos, he wants to buy only Legos, he watches Lego videos on YouTube, surfs
Lego lists on Flipkart and Amazon and makes a note of the rates and
discounts. He is so sure of his passion that he tells new friends this.."If
you come to my birthday please bring only Legos.." He too gets very very
upset when some kid comes home and touches the structures that he has made.
I need to intervene and make it gently clear to the other kids who come
home to not touch any of the Lego things. He refuses to have his nails cut
as that makes it difficult for him to dismantle the blocks and make them
again!
One day last week, the boy next door came home and went straight for a
harbor structure that Ishaan had made. I was in the other room and I heard
Ishaan tell him once and then twice politely.."Please don't touch that.."
The boy didn't pay any attention to this..By then I was moving faster to
the living room where all this was kept...and Ishaan was beginning to loose
his cool now..and I stopped the boy and told him very firmly.."Please
listen when he is telling you not to touch..."
I understand the neighbor's boy is perhaps not used to his space and things
being respected at home, as most mainstream families are like that. So for
him what Ishaan was saying was so alien...
The point I am trying to make is that my son does get upset and angry when
his real needs are not being met...he has with support from me started to
articulate better, what he needs and if he is still upset I often slow down
and see how I have not listened attentively to his needs.
My daughter expresses unmet needs in different ways..She will remain
silent and sullen. I need to then engage her and draw her into a chat or
conversation to help her access her real needs and help me understand her
better..
I see how both my children have different temperaments and ways of
expressing and I constantly strive to meet them where they are...I make
mistakes sometimes when I judge one way over the other..with time and
practice it has got better for me.
Dola Dasgupta
an unhealthy way to parent. The biggest challenge for any of us may be to
separate our mama intuition from cultural fear.*******
This statement I feel is confusing..as I feel perhaps often the mama
intuition is suppressed by the cultural fear and cultural fear is mistaken
as mama intuition....
I feel perhaps the maternal intuition would be the well being of the
child..and the cultural fear perhaps in this case is the 'fear of video
games as an addiction.."
If one were to perhaps go with the maternal intuition then the mother would
try out the suggestions that are time and again given by many on this list
about video games, TV, Internet and partnering those with the child.
If one were to perhaps really work towards the well being of the child then
looking at the passion as an addiction is not going to help I feel.
My son Ishaan is seven years old and is totally into Legos...He builds
Legos, he wants to buy only Legos, he watches Lego videos on YouTube, surfs
Lego lists on Flipkart and Amazon and makes a note of the rates and
discounts. He is so sure of his passion that he tells new friends this.."If
you come to my birthday please bring only Legos.." He too gets very very
upset when some kid comes home and touches the structures that he has made.
I need to intervene and make it gently clear to the other kids who come
home to not touch any of the Lego things. He refuses to have his nails cut
as that makes it difficult for him to dismantle the blocks and make them
again!
One day last week, the boy next door came home and went straight for a
harbor structure that Ishaan had made. I was in the other room and I heard
Ishaan tell him once and then twice politely.."Please don't touch that.."
The boy didn't pay any attention to this..By then I was moving faster to
the living room where all this was kept...and Ishaan was beginning to loose
his cool now..and I stopped the boy and told him very firmly.."Please
listen when he is telling you not to touch..."
I understand the neighbor's boy is perhaps not used to his space and things
being respected at home, as most mainstream families are like that. So for
him what Ishaan was saying was so alien...
The point I am trying to make is that my son does get upset and angry when
his real needs are not being met...he has with support from me started to
articulate better, what he needs and if he is still upset I often slow down
and see how I have not listened attentively to his needs.
My daughter expresses unmet needs in different ways..She will remain
silent and sullen. I need to then engage her and draw her into a chat or
conversation to help her access her real needs and help me understand her
better..
I see how both my children have different temperaments and ways of
expressing and I constantly strive to meet them where they are...I make
mistakes sometimes when I judge one way over the other..with time and
practice it has got better for me.
Dola Dasgupta
haydee deldenovese
I believe that every parent wants the best for their children, and in this
case I feel the mother is confused as to what she finds is better for her
child. Now, perhaps most feel that it is the child who knows what is best
for him, however I also feel that at the age of 4, a child might not have
the capacity to know when enough is enough.
I see the value in allowing the child to spend time with the brothers and
spend time in the computer, now when the computer is becoming the "new
mommy" that he can't live without, as a mother that would concern me. When
I say the "new mommy" I mean in the sense that usually at 4, the children
want to be playing with mommy when she is home, and in this case it has
gotten to the point where the child brings the computer and turns it on
every two minutes to check it. In my opinion, he can't be present with his
own mom, and I'm sorry but that must hurt her as a mother. So although I do
believe she should work toward the happiness of the child, I also believe
that she is the only one who knows within her heart wheater or not the
child is being overexposed.
...and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.
At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? Maybe that is what the mom here wants, to explore and learn
with her 4 yr old, and maybe because he is watching his brothers in the
computer all day, he too is forgeting that there in fact is a world out
there that is just as exciting and has lots of learning tools as well.
Maybe if she took the child and the computer outdoors for example, the play
would be far more interesting that the child would forget about the
computer games all together during their playful time...
H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
case I feel the mother is confused as to what she finds is better for her
child. Now, perhaps most feel that it is the child who knows what is best
for him, however I also feel that at the age of 4, a child might not have
the capacity to know when enough is enough.
I see the value in allowing the child to spend time with the brothers and
spend time in the computer, now when the computer is becoming the "new
mommy" that he can't live without, as a mother that would concern me. When
I say the "new mommy" I mean in the sense that usually at 4, the children
want to be playing with mommy when she is home, and in this case it has
gotten to the point where the child brings the computer and turns it on
every two minutes to check it. In my opinion, he can't be present with his
own mom, and I'm sorry but that must hurt her as a mother. So although I do
believe she should work toward the happiness of the child, I also believe
that she is the only one who knows within her heart wheater or not the
child is being overexposed.
...and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.
At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? Maybe that is what the mom here wants, to explore and learn
with her 4 yr old, and maybe because he is watching his brothers in the
computer all day, he too is forgeting that there in fact is a world out
there that is just as exciting and has lots of learning tools as well.
Maybe if she took the child and the computer outdoors for example, the play
would be far more interesting that the child would forget about the
computer games all together during their playful time...
H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I believe that every parent wants the best for their children-=-
That's not the greatest premise to start with, honestly.
Some parents beat and abuse their children. They don't all feel that's best. Some of them are just frustrated and mean.
Some parents don't like their children, didn't want them, are disappointed in them. Sometimes the children remind them of a spouse or partner they've grown to despise, or that they never knew (in the case of rape).
I could go on, but I won't.
For purposes of this discussion, let's not concern ourselves with what someone thinks about what every parent wants, please.
Issues should be examined from the point of view of how and whether unschooling principles could be applied.
-=-Now, perhaps most feel that it is the child who knows what is best
for him, however I also feel that at the age of 4, a child might not have
the capacity to know when enough is enough.-=-
It doesn't matter what most people feel. We're not taking a vote. We're not checking back on what the families here ultimately decide to do. It doesn't matter. We're discussing the ideas.
Certainly there are adults who don't know when enough is enough. And who will decide for them? If the parent comes to the point that she can't encourage/allow/support/enable, then she might say no. Okay. Lots of people say no all the time, often without thinking first. They can. They do.
If a child has options, and chooses to continue playing a game in a given moment, then he's saying that he hasn't had enough yet. When he's had enough, he'll go and do something else. I've seen a lot of boys play a LOT of video games, and have never seen one play "every waking hour," and have not seen anyone who didn't get tired of a game and go and do something else. If that was going to happen, it would easily have happened here. I could name lots of games each of my kids played obsessively. I can't name a single game that was played forever. No one has played 24 hours in a row. Everyone has gone days or weeks without playing a game, even though they have the option to play.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's not the greatest premise to start with, honestly.
Some parents beat and abuse their children. They don't all feel that's best. Some of them are just frustrated and mean.
Some parents don't like their children, didn't want them, are disappointed in them. Sometimes the children remind them of a spouse or partner they've grown to despise, or that they never knew (in the case of rape).
I could go on, but I won't.
For purposes of this discussion, let's not concern ourselves with what someone thinks about what every parent wants, please.
Issues should be examined from the point of view of how and whether unschooling principles could be applied.
-=-Now, perhaps most feel that it is the child who knows what is best
for him, however I also feel that at the age of 4, a child might not have
the capacity to know when enough is enough.-=-
It doesn't matter what most people feel. We're not taking a vote. We're not checking back on what the families here ultimately decide to do. It doesn't matter. We're discussing the ideas.
Certainly there are adults who don't know when enough is enough. And who will decide for them? If the parent comes to the point that she can't encourage/allow/support/enable, then she might say no. Okay. Lots of people say no all the time, often without thinking first. They can. They do.
If a child has options, and chooses to continue playing a game in a given moment, then he's saying that he hasn't had enough yet. When he's had enough, he'll go and do something else. I've seen a lot of boys play a LOT of video games, and have never seen one play "every waking hour," and have not seen anyone who didn't get tired of a game and go and do something else. If that was going to happen, it would easily have happened here. I could name lots of games each of my kids played obsessively. I can't name a single game that was played forever. No one has played 24 hours in a row. Everyone has gone days or weeks without playing a game, even though they have the option to play.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- see the value in allowing the child to spend time with the brothers and
spend time in the computer, now when the computer is becoming the "new
mommy" that he can't live without, as a mother that would concern me.-=-
You're putting words into another poster's mouth, and that's not a good practice.
-=-I say the "new mommy" I mean in the sense that usually at 4, the children
want to be playing with mommy when she is home, and in this case it has
gotten to the point where the child brings the computer and turns it on
every two minutes to check it.-=-
If this is a family you know personally, it's probably best not to comment in such detail.
If this is not a family you know personally, don't embroider or embellish on the mother's own report.
-=-In my opinion, he can't be present with his
own mom, and I'm sorry but that must hurt her as a mother.-=-
He IS present with his own mother.
If she were to get more involved with his current interest, he would be even MORE present with her. If she's not interested, he'll probably play anyway, but to suggest that a mother's hurt feelings are a reason for a child to forego something he's really interested in and excited about, that exists in his own safe home in his mother's presence seems to suggest that children are responsible for their mothers' feelings, and that a mother having a selfish desire is healthy.
-=-So although I do
believe she should work toward the happiness of the child, I also believe
that she is the only one who knows within her heart wheater or not the
child is being overexposed.-=-
Pick one. You can't have equal priorities. Either the happiness of the child is more important, or the idea that a mother's feelings are more important than a child's.
Within my heart, I do not know how my children feel. I can't know. I can only know how I feel, and that's not always. And that's intrapersonal knowledge, and some people have much more of it than others.
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
And someone with the ability to be self-reflective and analytical isn't always in an optimal state.
So a mother isn't the only one who knows something about her child. I can think of lots of instances in my life where a mother was clueless about a child's needs or feelings, but the dad was quite aware. I can think of situations where I knew much more about a friend than either of the parents knew or wanted to know. There are times when information from outside the family is like a floodlight that causes a mystery to make sense!
-=-...and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.-=-
The mother didn't "have the child" play games. It wasn't an assignment.
The child is making choices, at home, without danger. Don't make it seem dangerous.
If a child is playing a game and the mother is critical of it, disapproving, and unwilling to look more closely THAT wouldn't be very good unschooling, but that's not the case here. A mother has come to unschoolers to ask for ideas. That's good! That's what the discussion is for.
-=-At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? -=-
You seem to be disapproving of the children AND the mother. Video games do not prevent exploring, learning, helping, communicating, sharing, spending time together and getting to know each other. They can be the platform and catalyst for those things.
-=-Maybe that is what the mom here wants, to explore and learn
with her 4 yr old, and maybe because he is watching his brothers in the
computer all day, he too is forgeting that there in fact is a world out
there that is just as exciting and has lots of learning tools as well.-=-
I highly recommend that you read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch. Watch your own children's reactions to things, and try to avoid thinking that "the world out there" doesn't include computers. You wrote that on a computer of some sort. It's a learning tool. It can be exciting. It is in the world out there. To create a dichotomy with games on one sid and an exciting world "out there" will only confuse you and make it difficult to see clearly and to make reasonable observations.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
spend time in the computer, now when the computer is becoming the "new
mommy" that he can't live without, as a mother that would concern me.-=-
You're putting words into another poster's mouth, and that's not a good practice.
-=-I say the "new mommy" I mean in the sense that usually at 4, the children
want to be playing with mommy when she is home, and in this case it has
gotten to the point where the child brings the computer and turns it on
every two minutes to check it.-=-
If this is a family you know personally, it's probably best not to comment in such detail.
If this is not a family you know personally, don't embroider or embellish on the mother's own report.
-=-In my opinion, he can't be present with his
own mom, and I'm sorry but that must hurt her as a mother.-=-
He IS present with his own mother.
If she were to get more involved with his current interest, he would be even MORE present with her. If she's not interested, he'll probably play anyway, but to suggest that a mother's hurt feelings are a reason for a child to forego something he's really interested in and excited about, that exists in his own safe home in his mother's presence seems to suggest that children are responsible for their mothers' feelings, and that a mother having a selfish desire is healthy.
-=-So although I do
believe she should work toward the happiness of the child, I also believe
that she is the only one who knows within her heart wheater or not the
child is being overexposed.-=-
Pick one. You can't have equal priorities. Either the happiness of the child is more important, or the idea that a mother's feelings are more important than a child's.
Within my heart, I do not know how my children feel. I can't know. I can only know how I feel, and that's not always. And that's intrapersonal knowledge, and some people have much more of it than others.
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
And someone with the ability to be self-reflective and analytical isn't always in an optimal state.
So a mother isn't the only one who knows something about her child. I can think of lots of instances in my life where a mother was clueless about a child's needs or feelings, but the dad was quite aware. I can think of situations where I knew much more about a friend than either of the parents knew or wanted to know. There are times when information from outside the family is like a floodlight that causes a mystery to make sense!
-=-...and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.-=-
The mother didn't "have the child" play games. It wasn't an assignment.
The child is making choices, at home, without danger. Don't make it seem dangerous.
If a child is playing a game and the mother is critical of it, disapproving, and unwilling to look more closely THAT wouldn't be very good unschooling, but that's not the case here. A mother has come to unschoolers to ask for ideas. That's good! That's what the discussion is for.
-=-At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? -=-
You seem to be disapproving of the children AND the mother. Video games do not prevent exploring, learning, helping, communicating, sharing, spending time together and getting to know each other. They can be the platform and catalyst for those things.
-=-Maybe that is what the mom here wants, to explore and learn
with her 4 yr old, and maybe because he is watching his brothers in the
computer all day, he too is forgeting that there in fact is a world out
there that is just as exciting and has lots of learning tools as well.-=-
I highly recommend that you read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch. Watch your own children's reactions to things, and try to avoid thinking that "the world out there" doesn't include computers. You wrote that on a computer of some sort. It's a learning tool. It can be exciting. It is in the world out there. To create a dichotomy with games on one sid and an exciting world "out there" will only confuse you and make it difficult to see clearly and to make reasonable observations.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel
."..and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.
At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? "
Yes, I think it is because you are deschooling because if you weren't, you would know that it is at those times that exploring, learning, communicating etc is happening. Those and other times throughout the day. They are not mutually exclusive, in fact just the opposite.
When my daughter is playing minecraft or any other game, or watching her favourites programmes, or going out, or we are playing, those things are happening. I think the way you could stop them happening would be to be negative or disparaging about what they are doing.
Rachel
unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.
At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
other better? "
Yes, I think it is because you are deschooling because if you weren't, you would know that it is at those times that exploring, learning, communicating etc is happening. Those and other times throughout the day. They are not mutually exclusive, in fact just the opposite.
When my daughter is playing minecraft or any other game, or watching her favourites programmes, or going out, or we are playing, those things are happening. I think the way you could stop them happening would be to be negative or disparaging about what they are doing.
Rachel
On 11 Mar 2013, at 16:06, haydee deldenovese <shybarbie22@...> wrote:
> child is being overexposed.
> ...and maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to
> unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
> together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling.
> At what time in the day is there exploring, learning, helping,
> communicating, sharing, and spending time together to get to know each
> other better? M
Pam Sorooshian
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Rachel <rachk2000@...> wrote:
When my daughter is playing minecraft or any other game, or watching her
> favourites programmes, or going out, or we are playing, those things are
> happening. I think the way you could stop them happening would be to be
> negative or disparaging about what they are doing.
Also - there are always deeper messages being sent/received.
When a little child is repeatedly made aware that her parents think he or
she makes poor choices, that his/her preferences are to be ignored, the
child can grow up without confidence that he/she can make good choices as a
teen and adult. This is dangerous. Later, when your kid thinks a friend has
been drinking too much, but the friend says, "You're wrong. I'm fine. I can
drive," do you want your child to doubt his/her choice to find another
driver?"
The habit of not respecting children's preferences and choices is insidious
and always justified on the basis of it being for their own good. But, in
the long run, it is far more for their own good to support them in growing
up with a strong sense of self. This means self-respect for their own
preferences and choices.
-pam sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
haydee deldenovese <shybarbie22@...> wrote:
There's some big bad cultural pressure against the idea that children have passions. I remember when I was first reading about unschooling getting all creeped out at the word "passion" applied to children. Children shouldn't be passionate, they should be well-rounded. Even though adults aren't well rounded at all!
The child in the original post has brothers and sisters - Mo has a half-brother. If he's around, he fills up all her social needs really quickly. If the child in the original post is a strong introvert as well as being really passionate about what he's doing, it could easily be that he's a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of people in his life. That's not a problem with the computer, it's someone using the computer as a tool. Without it, he might use books, or painting, or paper cutting. He could easily be spending exactly as much time indoors, focused on his passion and/or protective shield.
Actually, that would explain this from the original post:
seems to feel naked without the laptop, so he brings it and turns back to it
every minute or two.<<
It's also important to note that he's Not doing One thing, he's doing several:
playing Minecraft
watching videos
skyping
reading
writing
The fact that all those things seem to revolve around a single subject isn't any different than another child who wants pirate clothes, pirate stories, pirate movies, pirate pajamas, pirate sheets, and pirate themed food.
The biggest problem is that mom Isn't supporting the kids on the computer enough.
---Meredith
> I also feel that at the age of 4, a child might not haveWhat does that mean "when enough is enough"? I'm sure I don't know. What's more, I work with a 72 year old woman who doesn't seem to know when "enough is enough" - she sleeps something like four hours a night and spends most of the rest of her time upholstering furniture. She's been doing that for 40 years.
> the capacity to know when enough is enough.
There's some big bad cultural pressure against the idea that children have passions. I remember when I was first reading about unschooling getting all creeped out at the word "passion" applied to children. Children shouldn't be passionate, they should be well-rounded. Even though adults aren't well rounded at all!
>I mean in the sense that usually at 4, the childrenAt 4, my daughter was already pretty introverted, and from birth she has prefered to do things for long stretches of time. When she was 4, a lot of what she did - hours every day - was cut shapes out of paper. She'd go through a whole stack of computer paper a week, easily, sometimes two. That much paper. Hours and hours every day. We went to our first unschooling conference that year - Live and Learn - and I stayed in a largish cabin with a shared kitchen/common room. I spent a lot of time cleaning up paper, and other parents commented on that: does your kid do this All the Time? It was only about half her waking hours, really, but that was still a lot. She's moved on from that to other things, but she still spends hours every day on her current passion. For awhile it was legos. Now it's fan-fiction.
> want to be playing with mommy when she is home
The child in the original post has brothers and sisters - Mo has a half-brother. If he's around, he fills up all her social needs really quickly. If the child in the original post is a strong introvert as well as being really passionate about what he's doing, it could easily be that he's a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of people in his life. That's not a problem with the computer, it's someone using the computer as a tool. Without it, he might use books, or painting, or paper cutting. He could easily be spending exactly as much time indoors, focused on his passion and/or protective shield.
Actually, that would explain this from the original post:
>>Sometimes whatwe are doing looks SO interesting and fun that he wants to participate, but he
seems to feel naked without the laptop, so he brings it and turns back to it
every minute or two.<<
It's also important to note that he's Not doing One thing, he's doing several:
playing Minecraft
watching videos
skyping
reading
writing
The fact that all those things seem to revolve around a single subject isn't any different than another child who wants pirate clothes, pirate stories, pirate movies, pirate pajamas, pirate sheets, and pirate themed food.
>maybe it is because I am still deschooling, but I feel like if to"Having" kids do anything is problematic, but supporting kids in what they value and care about is the basis of How unschooling works. Replace "playing games" with other things a kid might become passionate about and see if that changes your perspective: play an instrument, paint, read, build, climb...
> unschool is to be with the children helping them, explooring, and learning
> together, then having the children playing games all day isn't unschooling
The biggest problem is that mom Isn't supporting the kids on the computer enough.
---Meredith
Claire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Am I evolving into what I saw discussed a few days ago "free range" parenting? Do I just let them play MC because it requiresso little from me?! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wish I had more time to respond, but my first thought was that it looks like more IS required - more of your presence and input. With 4 kids over an 11 year age range, making unschooling work well at your place is going to take lots of energy and creativity from you. It's not surprising that with 2 big brothers, your 4 year old will be introduced to lots of things earlier than many other 4 year olds. How you manage this is the interesting part.
Claire
supermomblues
I'm a little late in this conversation, but I wanted to throw my two cents in :-)
My son is five and has been playing minecraft for well over a year. In the course of his minecraft "career" he has learned to read, learned spatial concepts, learned geometry and other math concepts, and has learned to spell words such as "nether" "fortress" and "zombie". He spends a great deal of time playing minecraft, and I am just fine with that.
Children of a certain age do tend to obsess a little sometimes, and sometimes don't quite know how to accept a loss. Sometimes my five year old gets like that and I consider it my job to listen to him and sympathize.
*Jennifer*
My son is five and has been playing minecraft for well over a year. In the course of his minecraft "career" he has learned to read, learned spatial concepts, learned geometry and other math concepts, and has learned to spell words such as "nether" "fortress" and "zombie". He spends a great deal of time playing minecraft, and I am just fine with that.
Children of a certain age do tend to obsess a little sometimes, and sometimes don't quite know how to accept a loss. Sometimes my five year old gets like that and I consider it my job to listen to him and sympathize.
>>Do I just let them play MC because it requires so little from me?!<<If you're worried about the reasons why, maybe offer to play with them? It really is a marveolous game and you can have quite the experience playing it with a youngling.
>>Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer all day?????<<*raises hand* There's nothing wrong with it. He's safe, he's happy (for the most part) and, most importantly, he's LEARNING.
*Jennifer*
--- In [email protected], Ali Zeljo <azeljo@...> wrote:
>
> Hello. I recently joined this forum looking for inspiration and support in unschooling. I finally found Sandra Dodd's website, which led me here. I have four sons. They are 13,9,4,2. For about a year, the oldest three have been playing Minecraft. My question for you is about addiction to it. Have any of you faced this issue? My oldest child tends to get passionate about one thing and pursue it intensely for years. His brothers tend to follow his lead. For the first 6 years of his life it was basketball. That was fun and easy to pursue with him. The next 6-7 years were Lego. Now the family is onto Minecraft. This is the first time the passion looks like addiction at times and I'm not sure what to do.
>
> As a mom, I've learned that doing nothing at first is usually wise, observing and waiting-- usually things unravel and solve themselves. My husband is getting upset. I sometimes feel sick with worry. Here is a picture of our life these days.
>
> The youngest player was 3 when he started. He is a marvel- the tiny little fingers expertly controlling that boxy figure. Now 4 years old, he wakes up in the morning and goes straight to the computer. He has to check who is on Z-Craft (the boys run a public server). Most days, he never stops playing or watching youtube videos of other people playing, the entire day. If he does stop, it is because he is enticed by the 2 year old or by me into something fun- but never for more than a few minutes- gotta run back to the computer. If we have to leave the house for any reason, he brings the laptop and plays single player in the car. I bring him food, drinks, powercord. He often Skypes with 10-12 year olds and plays Minecraft Hunger Games with them or discusses issues on Z-Craft. I see him learning to read words, typing tons of commands, learning strategies, making friends... This is a very deep place for him- he is SO young and has so much to learn from the opportunities it provides. But his little face is getting so pale, sometimes even looks yellow. And he is SO young! There is a part of me that feels like he is missing out on the real world, these fabulous years of interacting with mommy! I check in with him and ask him about what he's doing...but mostly I'm engaged in playing with the 2 year old or doing household stuff with the 2 year old. It is very easy to just leave him playing minecraft with his brothers while I do___ with the little guy. Sometimes what we are doing looks SO interesting and fun that he wants to participate, but he seems to feel naked without the laptop, so he brings it and turns back to it every minute or two. How do I decide if this is a problem that I need to do something about? (Fear scenario running thru my head: HEADLINE: parents "unschool" kid and from age 3, he spends every waking minute gaming on Minecraft until he can no longer do anything else. He is so addicted and entrenched in the Minecraft world, that his fingers can't leave the keyboard- even though he wants to do other things- the addiction is so strong, he cannot break away)
>
> The 9 & 13 year olds sleep later and roll out of bed and sit and stare for a while. After talking with 4 year old about server issues, or new kits on MCPvp, they grab their computers and start to play. However, their lives are considerably more busy- a couple days a week they go to activities that they enjoy, they have friends who come over and entice them outside to play kickball, they play on sports teams and willingly get off Minecraft for games & practices. Even still, they manage to play minecraft or watch minecraft videos for around 6 hours per day on busy days and on free days (3-4 per week) they play 12-14 hours or even more.
>
> The 4 & 13 year olds are mostly docile and sweet and easy. But the 9 year old tends to get angry, loud, and violent. These issues are scary for me. So he is DETERMINED to win at this minecraft server that offers Hunger Games scenarios with 150 players- last one left alive wins. This is entirely engaging to him. He has won 11 times. He wants to win 100 times. There is $ involved- they sell kits with powers and monthly fees for ranks. He buys all these things. The pattern has been that as the evening comes on, he gets more and more desperate to win one game! He plays over and over, getting more and more heightened. He cannot go to bed. He must win! He is getting so tired, everyone else in the house has fallen asleep. He is still awake, trying again and again! I wake up, I hear him crying! He is SO tired. He can't stop. He keeps coming in second or third! Why can't I win? Sometimes he gives in to snuggling in bed with me at this point (usually 12:30-1am). I am way too exhausted to stay up with him. Other times he just keeps playing and I'm not sure when he gets in bed! ;(
>
> I sometimes sit next to him and watch. He gets so explosive with a loss that he will lash out at whoever is near. Just yesterday I could tell he was at explosion point and asked if he wanted to walk the dogs with me. He said yes, but then as the game ended he jumped up and attacked me, his whole body shaking and eyes popping out. I was scared and was grateful his body is still small enough that he can't truly hurt me! He came on the walk and calmed down. I explained how scary that attack was for me, and how scary and dangerous it is for his brothers when he does it to them. He seems to take it in. We get home, he runs straight back to the computer to play more. No more violent episodes that day. Phew.
>
> Is there an addiction component? Am I evolving into what I saw discussed a few days ago "free range" parenting? Do I just let them play MC because it requires so little from me?! Anyone else here struggling with similar issues? I feel alone in this world, like everyone around me is not safe to talk to. Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer all day?????
>
> Thank you for input and wisdom!!
>
> Warmly,
> Ali
>
Sandra Dodd
-=->>Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer all day?????<<-=-
I talked to Kirby (who is now grown and works for a computer gaming company) about this idea recently. He refreshed my memory about a season here at our house.
Final Fantasy X had come out. It was a beautiful, mesmerizing game with the best music any of us had ever heard in a game.
Kirby had a job and went to karate, so that limited his play. Marty played sometimes when Kirby was gone or asleep. That year, when they were 13 and 16 or so, Kirby had a friend who was 15 or 16 and lived walking distance. His home was very unsafe for him, physically (crazy brother who had been in jail or mental lock-up for trying to kill the younger brother with a shovel--not Joey, but Joey had seen it and was afraid, and now that violent brother was home, and the parents were not very helpful)... Joey was staying here, like a ghost. Not officially. Kirby made a bed on the floor under his desk. He would take Joey food in there. Joey didn't want to come out and eat with the family.
At night after Kirby and Marty were asleep, Joey would go in the den and play Final Fantasy. It was as though he had the night shift. But in the morning, I would find Joey asleep, with the remote in his hand, and the game paused or on a menu, but playing that soothing music.
Three teenaged boys together couldn't play that game all day and all night. :-) And it's not that they didn't try, and it's not that we didn't let them, but they all slept, sometime in that 24 hour cycle, and all three at once when it was really late.
They've all grown up to be nice guys with jobs and friends who don't play video games all the time, but do play them sometimes.
It's not Minecraft, but it's a true story that might help people feel better.
There are dozens and hundreds of things teenaged boys could be doing that aren't good for them or the neighborhood, but these were in the house taking turns with a video game, reading comic, playing card games and board games between times. Other kids would come to play other things, or to watch someone (usually Kirby) play Final Fantasy. I remember it as a peaceful time of intense interest in something elaborate and challenging.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I talked to Kirby (who is now grown and works for a computer gaming company) about this idea recently. He refreshed my memory about a season here at our house.
Final Fantasy X had come out. It was a beautiful, mesmerizing game with the best music any of us had ever heard in a game.
Kirby had a job and went to karate, so that limited his play. Marty played sometimes when Kirby was gone or asleep. That year, when they were 13 and 16 or so, Kirby had a friend who was 15 or 16 and lived walking distance. His home was very unsafe for him, physically (crazy brother who had been in jail or mental lock-up for trying to kill the younger brother with a shovel--not Joey, but Joey had seen it and was afraid, and now that violent brother was home, and the parents were not very helpful)... Joey was staying here, like a ghost. Not officially. Kirby made a bed on the floor under his desk. He would take Joey food in there. Joey didn't want to come out and eat with the family.
At night after Kirby and Marty were asleep, Joey would go in the den and play Final Fantasy. It was as though he had the night shift. But in the morning, I would find Joey asleep, with the remote in his hand, and the game paused or on a menu, but playing that soothing music.
Three teenaged boys together couldn't play that game all day and all night. :-) And it's not that they didn't try, and it's not that we didn't let them, but they all slept, sometime in that 24 hour cycle, and all three at once when it was really late.
They've all grown up to be nice guys with jobs and friends who don't play video games all the time, but do play them sometimes.
It's not Minecraft, but it's a true story that might help people feel better.
There are dozens and hundreds of things teenaged boys could be doing that aren't good for them or the neighborhood, but these were in the house taking turns with a video game, reading comic, playing card games and board games between times. Other kids would come to play other things, or to watch someone (usually Kirby) play Final Fantasy. I remember it as a peaceful time of intense interest in something elaborate and challenging.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patricia Platt
Re: the question:
-=->>Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer
all day?????<<-=-
Meredith already wrote beautifully about supporting children in
following their passions, and in regard to the playing of Minecraft in
particular, several people have posted on AlwaysLearning about what
their children have learned playing the game. Really, the
opportunities for learning through Minecraft are limited only by the
player's own imagination and access to the game.
For folks who respond better to numbers, research, and such, here are
some facts and figures. Minecraft is played by millions of people
around the world, people of all ages and from many cultures. When I
checked the statistics at https://minecraft.net/stats just now,
9,760,164 people had bought the game, and in the last 24 hours, 11,805
people had bought the game. Many thousands of people have attended the
past Minecraft conventions. (My family attended one of those
conventions, and we met some lovely unschooling families there!)
For those who question the tastes of the masses: Minecraft is NOT a
first person shooter and can be played in creative and non-violent
modes. Moreover, Minecraft is part of the required curriculum in
Sweden for 13 year olds. Really. Google it. They use it to teach city
planning, project planning, environmentalism, and other things.
Minecraft is used in U.S. high schools, as well. Here is a quote from
Beyond Educational Technology 2012
(http://dml2012.dmlcentral.net/content/rml-learning-and-around-games-minecraft-affinity-space):
"Minecraft has also become a site for immersive and interactive
learning, as teachers begin to adopt it for in-class activities, clubs
pop up at schools around the world, and both kids and adults (even
parents!) come together in diverse online forums, video sharing sites,
and communities."
So, to reframe the question: "Who on earth thinks it's okay to let a 4
year old passionately experiment with architecture, city planning,
forms of government (and on and on; you name it), while learning math,
anthropology, mythology, social skills (and on and on; you name it)
all day?" This very young child is happily and voluntarily doing what
many school children are now required to do. Would you have a problem
if the 4 year old wanted to compose symphonies (or paint, or dance, or
solve physics or math problems or -- you name the passion) all day?
Look at the learning. Look at the passion. Look at the child. How
wonderful that such a young child already has such a rich life with
such passionate engagement!
-=->>Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer
all day?????<<-=-
Meredith already wrote beautifully about supporting children in
following their passions, and in regard to the playing of Minecraft in
particular, several people have posted on AlwaysLearning about what
their children have learned playing the game. Really, the
opportunities for learning through Minecraft are limited only by the
player's own imagination and access to the game.
For folks who respond better to numbers, research, and such, here are
some facts and figures. Minecraft is played by millions of people
around the world, people of all ages and from many cultures. When I
checked the statistics at https://minecraft.net/stats just now,
9,760,164 people had bought the game, and in the last 24 hours, 11,805
people had bought the game. Many thousands of people have attended the
past Minecraft conventions. (My family attended one of those
conventions, and we met some lovely unschooling families there!)
For those who question the tastes of the masses: Minecraft is NOT a
first person shooter and can be played in creative and non-violent
modes. Moreover, Minecraft is part of the required curriculum in
Sweden for 13 year olds. Really. Google it. They use it to teach city
planning, project planning, environmentalism, and other things.
Minecraft is used in U.S. high schools, as well. Here is a quote from
Beyond Educational Technology 2012
(http://dml2012.dmlcentral.net/content/rml-learning-and-around-games-minecraft-affinity-space):
"Minecraft has also become a site for immersive and interactive
learning, as teachers begin to adopt it for in-class activities, clubs
pop up at schools around the world, and both kids and adults (even
parents!) come together in diverse online forums, video sharing sites,
and communities."
So, to reframe the question: "Who on earth thinks it's okay to let a 4
year old passionately experiment with architecture, city planning,
forms of government (and on and on; you name it), while learning math,
anthropology, mythology, social skills (and on and on; you name it)
all day?" This very young child is happily and voluntarily doing what
many school children are now required to do. Would you have a problem
if the 4 year old wanted to compose symphonies (or paint, or dance, or
solve physics or math problems or -- you name the passion) all day?
Look at the learning. Look at the passion. Look at the child. How
wonderful that such a young child already has such a rich life with
such passionate engagement!
Alex Polikowsky
My 7 year old daughter is playing minecraft right now with friends from the UK! ( we are in the US).
She has made some great friends and talks to them on Skype while playing!
When my son was 5 he was into Roblox and it was amazing for him!
I let him Play as much as he wanted .
Gigi was not really into video games at 5. It was not until this winter that she has done a lot of video games. She had played more in the Winter than Summer.
Different personalities!
Alex Polikowsky
Sent from my iPhone
She has made some great friends and talks to them on Skype while playing!
When my son was 5 he was into Roblox and it was amazing for him!
I let him Play as much as he wanted .
Gigi was not really into video games at 5. It was not until this winter that she has done a lot of video games. She had played more in the Winter than Summer.
Different personalities!
Alex Polikowsky
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 18, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Patricia Platt <pnplatt@...> wrote:
> Re: the question:
>
> -=->>Who on earth thinks its ok to let a 4 year old on the computer
> all day?????<<-=-
>
> Meredith already wrote beautifully about supporting children in
> following their passions, and in regard to the playing of Minecraft in
> particular, several people have posted on AlwaysLearning about what
> their children have learned playing the game. Really, the
> opportunities for learning through Minecraft are limited only by the
> player's own imagination and access to the game.
>
> For folks who respond better to numbers, research, and such, here are
> some facts and figures. Minecraft is played by millions of people
> around the world, people of all ages and from many cultures. When I
> checked the statistics at https://minecraft.net/stats just now,
> 9,760,164 people had bought the game, and in the last 24 hours, 11,805
> people had bought the game. Many thousands of people have attended the
> past Minecraft conventions. (My family attended one of those
> conventions, and we met some lovely unschooling families there!)
>
> For those who question the tastes of the masses: Minecraft is NOT a
> first person shooter and can be played in creative and non-violent
> modes. Moreover, Minecraft is part of the required curriculum in
> Sweden for 13 year olds. Really. Google it. They use it to teach city
> planning, project planning, environmentalism, and other things.
> Minecraft is used in U.S. high schools, as well. Here is a quote from
> Beyond Educational Technology 2012
> (http://dml2012.dmlcentral.net/content/rml-learning-and-around-games-minecraft-affinity-space):
> "Minecraft has also become a site for immersive and interactive
> learning, as teachers begin to adopt it for in-class activities, clubs
> pop up at schools around the world, and both kids and adults (even
> parents!) come together in diverse online forums, video sharing sites,
> and communities."
>
> So, to reframe the question: "Who on earth thinks it's okay to let a 4
> year old passionately experiment with architecture, city planning,
> forms of government (and on and on; you name it), while learning math,
> anthropology, mythology, social skills (and on and on; you name it)
> all day?" This very young child is happily and voluntarily doing what
> many school children are now required to do. Would you have a problem
> if the 4 year old wanted to compose symphonies (or paint, or dance, or
> solve physics or math problems or -- you name the passion) all day?
> Look at the learning. Look at the passion. Look at the child. How
> wonderful that such a young child already has such a rich life with
> such passionate engagement!
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
We're new to unschooling. My son is 6 and has been home from school since February. We used to have restrictions on TV, computer, etc. We've lifted those as we moved to unschooling 3 weeks ago.
Obviously, we're still very much in the "deschooling" phase with him and ourselves, as parents. Our older son (10) is in a private school and says he'd like to remain there. His feelings on that might change as he sees more and more what unschooling is about.
We have 2 computers. The boys play Minecraft & Roblox. One has a bigger screen and it's the one they prefer to play on.
Colum, the 6 year old, gets angry - screams, slams doors, etc. if he doesn't get the bigger screened computer - for example, if Rory wakes up first and plays on it. He's broken things before.
We've tried taking turns (2 hours each, then they switch) and Colum screams, cries, etc. We give warnings, "It'll be time to switch in 5 minutes..." and he's very pleasant, he agrees it's a great idea, etc. but when the time comes, he goes through the same emotions with screaming, crying, stomping, etc.
We've also encountered this if we have to go somewhere and therefore he has to leave the computer - crying, screaming, sometimes hitting. This only happens about twice a week, we're not making him leave all the time. We both work at home so most of the time, there's a parent who can stay with him to allow him to play. But occasionally something comes up. We always give advance notice to him for this as well.
I realize he loves the game and because of the restrictions placed on it before he has a lot of anxiety that it'll be taken away again, he's afraid to lose it.
How can we avoid these meltdowns while also giving Rory the opportunity to use the bigger screened computer?
When kids have to share a resource, how can we do it without conflict / friction?
Or how can we help him (and ourselves) deal with the meltdowns better?
Thoughts appreciated.
-Michelle
Obviously, we're still very much in the "deschooling" phase with him and ourselves, as parents. Our older son (10) is in a private school and says he'd like to remain there. His feelings on that might change as he sees more and more what unschooling is about.
We have 2 computers. The boys play Minecraft & Roblox. One has a bigger screen and it's the one they prefer to play on.
Colum, the 6 year old, gets angry - screams, slams doors, etc. if he doesn't get the bigger screened computer - for example, if Rory wakes up first and plays on it. He's broken things before.
We've tried taking turns (2 hours each, then they switch) and Colum screams, cries, etc. We give warnings, "It'll be time to switch in 5 minutes..." and he's very pleasant, he agrees it's a great idea, etc. but when the time comes, he goes through the same emotions with screaming, crying, stomping, etc.
We've also encountered this if we have to go somewhere and therefore he has to leave the computer - crying, screaming, sometimes hitting. This only happens about twice a week, we're not making him leave all the time. We both work at home so most of the time, there's a parent who can stay with him to allow him to play. But occasionally something comes up. We always give advance notice to him for this as well.
I realize he loves the game and because of the restrictions placed on it before he has a lot of anxiety that it'll be taken away again, he's afraid to lose it.
How can we avoid these meltdowns while also giving Rory the opportunity to use the bigger screened computer?
When kids have to share a resource, how can we do it without conflict / friction?
Or how can we help him (and ourselves) deal with the meltdowns better?
Thoughts appreciated.
-Michelle
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> The habit of not respecting children's preferences and choices is insidious
> and always justified on the basis of it being for their own good. But, in
> the long run, it is far more for their own good to support them in growing
> up with a strong sense of self. This means self-respect for their own
> preferences and choices.
>
> -pam sorooshian
Sandra Dodd
-=-When kids have to share a resource, how can we do it without conflict / friction? -=-
I would suggest that he use it while his brother is at school, and let the school-going boy use it first when he's home, but try to do it without a resentment being built up about the return from school.
That might sound more complicated than it needs to be.
We didn't measure turns here, but let each person play until he was done. But they were all around, and nobody was at school, so you have that complication.
Here are some ideas from past discussions.
http://sandradodd.com/sharing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would suggest that he use it while his brother is at school, and let the school-going boy use it first when he's home, but try to do it without a resentment being built up about the return from school.
That might sound more complicated than it needs to be.
We didn't measure turns here, but let each person play until he was done. But they were all around, and nobody was at school, so you have that complication.
Here are some ideas from past discussions.
http://sandradodd.com/sharing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=- I would suggest that he use it while his brother is at school, and let the school-going boy use it first when he's home, but try to do it without a resentment being built up about the return from school. -=-
That's what we have been doing and the screaming, crying, wailing happens when it is the afternoon / evening and our older son's turn. Colum isn't mad at Rory about it, he's mad and us for making him stop playing on the "good" computer.
We've done timers and we've let the kids work out what they think is fair and he's very agreeable about the ideas, but when the time actually comes to switch, he totally loses it. No matter who's idea it is, even if it's something he came up with.
Given that this freedom is new, the idea of letting him play until he was done (on Sandra's "Sharing page") hasn't allow Rory any opportunity to play, as Colum hasn't been done in 3 weeks since we let go of the rules.
My hope is that over time he'll get to the point where he trusts us and won't have this massive meltdown when/if it's time to switch from the "good" computer. But he is now.
How can we help him with the meltdowns?
-Michelle
That's what we have been doing and the screaming, crying, wailing happens when it is the afternoon / evening and our older son's turn. Colum isn't mad at Rory about it, he's mad and us for making him stop playing on the "good" computer.
We've done timers and we've let the kids work out what they think is fair and he's very agreeable about the ideas, but when the time actually comes to switch, he totally loses it. No matter who's idea it is, even if it's something he came up with.
Given that this freedom is new, the idea of letting him play until he was done (on Sandra's "Sharing page") hasn't allow Rory any opportunity to play, as Colum hasn't been done in 3 weeks since we let go of the rules.
My hope is that over time he'll get to the point where he trusts us and won't have this massive meltdown when/if it's time to switch from the "good" computer. But he is now.
How can we help him with the meltdowns?
-Michelle
Ali Zeljo
> How can we help him with the meltdowns?This issue has come up a lot in our house too. I aim for prevention. In our case what helps the most is for me to get in a really calm centered loving state, and then join with the child who is going to have a rough transition with the computer sharing. Watch him, Talk to him about what he is doing. I'd get on the "bad" computer and ask him to show me how to get where he is. I would stay fully involved and present with what he is working on and eventually mention he could take over for me on this computer since it will soon be brother's turn on that one. I would aim to keep the focus on what we are doing together and not on the switching computers. This tends to help my kids. It feels a bit like I'm carrying them over a huge chasm that they can't leap on their own. Warnings, reminders, etc feel like triggers. One of my kids told me that reminders feel like unfair controlling rules. Maybe even for your son, a reminder feels like computer time is about to be over?
>
It can also help for the older brother to mention something cool he found on the bad computer and ask if he wants him to leave it up for him on his turn?
Also, after some questioning, I realized that our bad computer had a really unresponsive tracking pad- so we got an external mouse for it. That helped the bad computer's status a little. If it is screen size, can you try running it thru your TV for fun?
Also, not sure if you have a history of asking the older brother to give in since it means so much to younger brother. I did this for a while and then realized I was creating a situation where the younger brother learned to get out of control and use bullying threat tactics to get his way. It's been very hard to remedy. I'm still working constantly. What I realize now is that those big fits at a time of transition are often way less about the object and way more about big emotion. Gosh I wish I had just focused on dealing with his big feelings and not trying to make him feel better by getting what he wanted. With my most explosive son, he often has immense jealous feelings about his older brother--so having to give over the good thing to the brother he is often jealous of really brings on the bang! I'm not sure if this is taking it way deeper than your personal situation, but I wish I had realized this piece years ago! Now, I get right there with him while he's having a meltdown. I help him identify what he's feeling. I help him try out healthy ways of releasing the rage. I help him take ownership of his actions. My son is now 9 and is slowly getting better at managing the bursts of emotion. I could use more wisdom on helping kids with enormous emotions too!
Warmly,
Ali
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Priscilla Rolvers
Is trading the smaller size monitor for a same sized monitor an idea?
Priscilla
Priscilla
On May 2, 2013 5:50 AM, "michellemacp@..." <michellemacp@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> -=- I would suggest that he use it while his brother is at school, and let
> the school-going boy use it first when he's home, but try to do it without
> a resentment being built up about the return from school. -=-
>
> That's what we have been doing and the screaming, crying, wailing happens
> when it is the afternoon / evening and our older son's turn. Colum isn't
> mad at Rory about it, he's mad and us for making him stop playing on the
> "good" computer.
>
> We've done timers and we've let the kids work out what they think is fair
> and he's very agreeable about the ideas, but when the time actually comes
> to switch, he totally loses it. No matter who's idea it is, even if it's
> something he came up with.
>
> Given that this freedom is new, the idea of letting him play until he was
> done (on Sandra's "Sharing page") hasn't allow Rory any opportunity to
> play, as Colum hasn't been done in 3 weeks since we let go of the rules.
>
> My hope is that over time he'll get to the point where he trusts us and
> won't have this massive meltdown when/if it's time to switch from the
> "good" computer. But he is now.
>
> How can we help him with the meltdowns?
>
> -Michelle
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 7:04 PM, michellemacp@...
<michellemacp@...>wrote:
others want to be left very much entirely alone when they are upset.
Leaving the game is hard but going to something else might be easier. So
when you're talking about what's going to happen when Rory gets home and
wants to use the big screen, come up with something extra cool for Colum to
do - something he'll look forward to. It could be simple like save a candy
bar or ice cream for then. Or it could be that you go out of the house
somewhere (maybe for ice cream) if you can go and leave Rory playing.
Also - it might help if he had a friend come over at that time.
Do you have other really fun stuff to do? Trampoline, nerf guns, etc?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<michellemacp@...>wrote:
> How can we help him with the meltdowns?How does he like to be helped? Some kids want attention and comforting and
others want to be left very much entirely alone when they are upset.
Leaving the game is hard but going to something else might be easier. So
when you're talking about what's going to happen when Rory gets home and
wants to use the big screen, come up with something extra cool for Colum to
do - something he'll look forward to. It could be simple like save a candy
bar or ice cream for then. Or it could be that you go out of the house
somewhere (maybe for ice cream) if you can go and leave Rory playing.
Also - it might help if he had a friend come over at that time.
Do you have other really fun stuff to do? Trampoline, nerf guns, etc?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 1, 2013, at 6:43 PM, michellemacp@... wrote:
Or is it not the monitor at all? Is the smaller computer slower? The sound not as good?
Ask him when he's not upset about it. Ask them both.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html
Some kids don't like warnings. It builds up the tension. He may need a different approach.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> One has a bigger screen and it's the one they prefer to play onHow about an external monitor for it? Or hooking it up to a TV? They're easily available on Craig's list. (Though the picture might not be as crisp if the TV is old.)
Or is it not the monitor at all? Is the smaller computer slower? The sound not as good?
Ask him when he's not upset about it. Ask them both.
> We've also encountered this if we have to go somewhere and therefore he has to leave the computerI have a bunch of transition ideas gathered here:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html
Some kids don't like warnings. It builds up the tension. He may need a different approach.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]