Do unschooled kids end up feeling superior?
Sandra Dodd
This came with a request for me to post it anonymously:
_________________________________
This email comes due some concerns from my husband to whom I am not able to explain out things by myself. I am not able to frame it very well as a specific question either.
My husband had a recent interaction with a group of individuals who have been a to a particular alternative education setting (a sort of open school) . He felt that they were snooty, felt that they were making an effort to prove themselves superior due to their educational setting . There was a lot of mainstream school bashing going on there and he felt that they did not consider the feelings of those who might have been to school. His own education and mine have been mainstream. He felt it was in poor taste that they felt the need to establish they were "better" educated due to the radical teaching methodologies that they have been exposed to.
He felt that some how we would end up imparting the message to our children ( very young now and not yet school going age) that our way of life was "better" than what our friends chose for their children. And while it very well may be "better" which is why we choose it, that telling our children that it is "better" may lead to problems later on. (A bit ironic since I pretty much have to field questions about school and how that "school is better" on a daily basis so I personally think its quite the reverse).
He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds of people or know to handle all kinds of situations especially .What he worries is a sense of "superiority" attitude that our children might acquire because I genuinely believe that this way of living and learning is better for them. Additionally some of my family members have expressed to him that homeschooling is elitist and that we are eliminating opportunities for our children to mingle with "all natures of people"...
I think of unschooling as a privilege, something that I want to work hard towards maintaining, But my husband's concern made it sound like some sort of belief system that would make my children NOT fit in. Kind of like saying "so much individuality that you won't be able to get along with other people and know how to connect because you know that you are better than others". While I KNOW that's the very opposite of what I believe to be unschooling, but I am struggling with explaining it out to my husband. Part of the problem is that we do not have access to many grown unschoolers. And the unschoolers that we have access to seem aloof, generally less social than what my husband is used to seeing which worries him more.
For some reason my husband fears that "Unschooling" will lead his children down a path that might get lonely because of the fact that they will think they are better than others. He wants our children to be likable. He wonders if grown unschoolers think they are too good for the rest of the world? While I don't have a crystal ball, my hope is that if I radically unschool my children would grow up to be inquisitive, kind people better than if I put them in school and that would understand that what they experienced was a privilege and would look at it that way only and not as something to be snobbish about. I believe that more so since I have met many ivy league/prep school snobs and even the ivy league credentials and smartness couldn't make up for the lack of humility..
_________________________________
This email comes due some concerns from my husband to whom I am not able to explain out things by myself. I am not able to frame it very well as a specific question either.
My husband had a recent interaction with a group of individuals who have been a to a particular alternative education setting (a sort of open school) . He felt that they were snooty, felt that they were making an effort to prove themselves superior due to their educational setting . There was a lot of mainstream school bashing going on there and he felt that they did not consider the feelings of those who might have been to school. His own education and mine have been mainstream. He felt it was in poor taste that they felt the need to establish they were "better" educated due to the radical teaching methodologies that they have been exposed to.
He felt that some how we would end up imparting the message to our children ( very young now and not yet school going age) that our way of life was "better" than what our friends chose for their children. And while it very well may be "better" which is why we choose it, that telling our children that it is "better" may lead to problems later on. (A bit ironic since I pretty much have to field questions about school and how that "school is better" on a daily basis so I personally think its quite the reverse).
He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds of people or know to handle all kinds of situations especially .What he worries is a sense of "superiority" attitude that our children might acquire because I genuinely believe that this way of living and learning is better for them. Additionally some of my family members have expressed to him that homeschooling is elitist and that we are eliminating opportunities for our children to mingle with "all natures of people"...
I think of unschooling as a privilege, something that I want to work hard towards maintaining, But my husband's concern made it sound like some sort of belief system that would make my children NOT fit in. Kind of like saying "so much individuality that you won't be able to get along with other people and know how to connect because you know that you are better than others". While I KNOW that's the very opposite of what I believe to be unschooling, but I am struggling with explaining it out to my husband. Part of the problem is that we do not have access to many grown unschoolers. And the unschoolers that we have access to seem aloof, generally less social than what my husband is used to seeing which worries him more.
For some reason my husband fears that "Unschooling" will lead his children down a path that might get lonely because of the fact that they will think they are better than others. He wants our children to be likable. He wonders if grown unschoolers think they are too good for the rest of the world? While I don't have a crystal ball, my hope is that if I radically unschool my children would grow up to be inquisitive, kind people better than if I put them in school and that would understand that what they experienced was a privilege and would look at it that way only and not as something to be snobbish about. I believe that more so since I have met many ivy league/prep school snobs and even the ivy league credentials and smartness couldn't make up for the lack of humility..
Roya Dedeaux
==He wonders if grown unschoolers think they are too good for the rest of
the world? ==
The way this is phrased strikes me as odd in an unschooling life. I was in
the world, experiencing, learning, touching, drawing, writing, discussing -
there's no artificial barrier between me and the world, including a sense
of superiority.
I am 28 years old, and have been unschooled for most of my life. There are
frequently times when I look at someone else's life and experience waves of
immense gratitude for the way my parents brought me up. I am grateful they
didn't beat me, that they didn't do drugs, that they aren't divorced, that
they worked to make enough money that we always had food, that they took us
camping, that we traveled, that we had pets, that we live in southern
California... and yes, that we unschool.
I would say that I have never felt a malicious sense of superiority to
people with a different situation, it has always been in the form of
gratitude to mine. Beyond the gratitude I already listed, some the ones
specific to unschooling are - I am grateful for my parents to teach me the
lesson of not doing what others say just because they say to, of the
constant flow of resources they worked hard to provide, of the way my brain
works now and sees connection, of the time I had to develop my passions, of
their involvement, vigilance, hard work, resourcefulness, and the fact that
they put our family, our happiness, and our relationships above other
things, such as test scores and grades.
I am also grateful that my mother, in particular, spends so much of her
time on email lists, facebook pages, organization boards, and answering
phone calls to new-to-homeschooling parents. She saves a lot of children's
lives. I have never felt superior to those kids, I am lucky, and I have no
way of knowing what aspects of their lives they could be potentially
feeling "superior" about.
I don't know about other people, or how you'll raise your family. Maybe
there is a group of unschoolers sitting around right now laughing about
how much better their lives are than other people. It just hasn't been my
experience - I think for the most part unschoolers realize how lucky they
are. I do wonder how this culture will change as there are more and more
generations away from the schooling alternative. I think gratitude is a
really, really important characteristic that is more prevalent in an
unschooler's life, it walks hand in hand with optimism, and is hard work. I
think something that we do as unschoolers makes optimism and gratitude a
much larger presence, and I don't think it is just because of having a
school-experience to compare to.
==For some reason my husband fears that "Unschooling" will lead his
children down a path that might get lonely because of the fact that they
will think they are better than others.==
At different times in my life I have been lonely, but to my recollection,
never because I felt better than others. There are also times when I have
chosen to stay away from groups or individuals whose philosophies or
opinions about learning did not fit well enough with mine. I know the type
of people I am most drawn to are passionate, curious people who have a real
drive and sense of purpose. I don't need to share every single thing with
every single friend. I have a lot of people that I really like because we
share a hobby, or an experience, rather than the same educational
background.
== He wants our children to be likable. ==
What I would say to a worried parent is - it's an amazing thing to watch
unschooled children because the spark of inquisitiveness does not go away.
That's irresistible to some people. It's an attractive quality, to be
interested and interesting. They will be very likely to be able to cross
social boundaries that people raised without unschooling may have a harder
time doing (such as age). Parents are not sitting around at park days
saying "well my child got into this college, and got 8 A's and 1 B." The
lack of comparing test scores does wonderful things for a community. When
parents aren't comparing a lot of very different types of children using
one flawed measurement scale, it helps prevent a culture in which the
children do that too.
--Roya Dedeaux
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the world? ==
The way this is phrased strikes me as odd in an unschooling life. I was in
the world, experiencing, learning, touching, drawing, writing, discussing -
there's no artificial barrier between me and the world, including a sense
of superiority.
I am 28 years old, and have been unschooled for most of my life. There are
frequently times when I look at someone else's life and experience waves of
immense gratitude for the way my parents brought me up. I am grateful they
didn't beat me, that they didn't do drugs, that they aren't divorced, that
they worked to make enough money that we always had food, that they took us
camping, that we traveled, that we had pets, that we live in southern
California... and yes, that we unschool.
I would say that I have never felt a malicious sense of superiority to
people with a different situation, it has always been in the form of
gratitude to mine. Beyond the gratitude I already listed, some the ones
specific to unschooling are - I am grateful for my parents to teach me the
lesson of not doing what others say just because they say to, of the
constant flow of resources they worked hard to provide, of the way my brain
works now and sees connection, of the time I had to develop my passions, of
their involvement, vigilance, hard work, resourcefulness, and the fact that
they put our family, our happiness, and our relationships above other
things, such as test scores and grades.
I am also grateful that my mother, in particular, spends so much of her
time on email lists, facebook pages, organization boards, and answering
phone calls to new-to-homeschooling parents. She saves a lot of children's
lives. I have never felt superior to those kids, I am lucky, and I have no
way of knowing what aspects of their lives they could be potentially
feeling "superior" about.
I don't know about other people, or how you'll raise your family. Maybe
there is a group of unschoolers sitting around right now laughing about
how much better their lives are than other people. It just hasn't been my
experience - I think for the most part unschoolers realize how lucky they
are. I do wonder how this culture will change as there are more and more
generations away from the schooling alternative. I think gratitude is a
really, really important characteristic that is more prevalent in an
unschooler's life, it walks hand in hand with optimism, and is hard work. I
think something that we do as unschoolers makes optimism and gratitude a
much larger presence, and I don't think it is just because of having a
school-experience to compare to.
==For some reason my husband fears that "Unschooling" will lead his
children down a path that might get lonely because of the fact that they
will think they are better than others.==
At different times in my life I have been lonely, but to my recollection,
never because I felt better than others. There are also times when I have
chosen to stay away from groups or individuals whose philosophies or
opinions about learning did not fit well enough with mine. I know the type
of people I am most drawn to are passionate, curious people who have a real
drive and sense of purpose. I don't need to share every single thing with
every single friend. I have a lot of people that I really like because we
share a hobby, or an experience, rather than the same educational
background.
== He wants our children to be likable. ==
What I would say to a worried parent is - it's an amazing thing to watch
unschooled children because the spark of inquisitiveness does not go away.
That's irresistible to some people. It's an attractive quality, to be
interested and interesting. They will be very likely to be able to cross
social boundaries that people raised without unschooling may have a harder
time doing (such as age). Parents are not sitting around at park days
saying "well my child got into this college, and got 8 A's and 1 B." The
lack of comparing test scores does wonderful things for a community. When
parents aren't comparing a lot of very different types of children using
one flawed measurement scale, it helps prevent a culture in which the
children do that too.
--Roya Dedeaux
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-The
lack of comparing test scores does wonderful things for a community. When
parents aren't comparing a lot of very different types of children using
one flawed measurement scale, it helps prevent a culture in which the
children do that too.-=-
Roya wrote that. I'm glad. I had wanted to say that I was given a sense of superiority by school. My grades were good I made all-state chorus. Other blah-blah-fancy stuff. And those things weren't worth diddly once I left high school, except for me to compare myself to others in an artificial school-only way.
But back at my school, only a few people felt superior. A huge number felt average. Profoundly not special. And as many as that were certified, on papers that their parents were required to sign and return, failures.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lack of comparing test scores does wonderful things for a community. When
parents aren't comparing a lot of very different types of children using
one flawed measurement scale, it helps prevent a culture in which the
children do that too.-=-
Roya wrote that. I'm glad. I had wanted to say that I was given a sense of superiority by school. My grades were good I made all-state chorus. Other blah-blah-fancy stuff. And those things weren't worth diddly once I left high school, except for me to compare myself to others in an artificial school-only way.
But back at my school, only a few people felt superior. A huge number felt average. Profoundly not special. And as many as that were certified, on papers that their parents were required to sign and return, failures.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
> >>>He felt it was in poor taste that they felt the need to establish theyThey were young and probably felt defensive. That can come across as acting
> were "better" educated due to the radical teaching methodologies that they
> have been exposed to>>
snooty and superior, but ask your husband to consider that they probably
are frequently questioned about their education and that most people they
meet are probably quite skeptical that they are receiving a decent
education.
They also can get very excited about what they are doing and super
enthusiastic about singing the praises of it....I think that could come
across as snooty and superior, too, but it really is a passion and
exuberant happiness over what THEY are getting to do.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
>He wonders if grown unschoolers think they are too good for the rest ofthe world?
************
Of course he does - that's what people who go to "better schools" think. It's reinforced by teacher and parents and all the other kids in school I went to some "better schools" and remember that - it's one of the things which got in the way of understanding unschooling in the beginning, and I still tell my dad that we homeschool because "the schools here are terrible" because He still has that attitude. Better schools turn out better people.
I know there are people who homeschool for that reason - to make better people of their children. I know because I was one, and have friends who still are. I get that. It's not even a bad thing, not wholly - it's hopeful: maybe my kids will be better, have less trouble in life. That's a noble goal. Not very well founded in real world data, but noble.
The unschooling kids I've met don't have that "we all go to the best school in town" Attitude. Most aren't even defensive about the fact they don't go to school, despite the fact they all get asked questions like "how do you learn?" and "are you stupid?" and "you know you'll never get into college, right?"
> He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds of people or know to handle all kinds of situations especially**************
Homeschooled kids in general spend time with a broader range of people than kids in school and are exposed to a wider range of situations. School "socialization" is very, very narrow in scope, and tends to stifle social skills. Even my super-introverted daughter has a muuuuuuch broader range of regular social experiences than if she were in school.
And her friends and associates include people in school! Some are kids, some are adults, all different ages. She doesn't think less of her school friends - although she has asked me why they have such odd ideas about learning.
Then again, I Deliberately answer questions like that with the intent to be thoughtful, not elitist. That might be something you and your husband could discuss - how you want to Talk about education with your kids so that you aren't creating that sense of "we're better because we go to the best school in town".
---Meredith
Robert and Colleen
****The unschooling kids I've met don't have that "we all go to the best school in town" attitude.****
I agree!
A few months back, someone on TV used the word "valedictorian" -
My then-9 year old asked "what's a valedictorian?" and I told him it means the person who gets the very best grades and graduates at the top of their class, usually in high school or college.
He looked at me, sort of laughed, and said "they have a WORD for that?? That's just sad." :-)
I was very academically successful in school and still have, tucked away somewhere, some of the trophies, certificates, pins, and other things I "earned" by getting good grades and good test scores over my in-school years. I am pretty sure I cannot exchange a single one of them for anything of actual value, though I do wish the Apple store would trade me a MacBook for a couple lovely, embossed award papers ;-)
School sets up the idea that there are people who are Superior and people who are Inferior, based on the ability of those people (those children) to complete academic tasks to the satisfaction of teachers and school systems and standardized test creators.
There are no award ceremonies to recognize those who unschool the very best :-) There are no plaques and awards and frames on the living room walls of only those unschoolers who score the highest or play the unschooling game most particularly well.
There is no unschooling game to play, in fact - no winners, no losers. I like that much better - and I agree with my son - picking out He Who Is Best and leaving everyone else in the school world aside as Not Best really does seem rather sad, especially for all those kids who know that no matter how hard they try, they'll never be Best - academics aren't their thing, or their home life is such that they're too tired or hungry to keep up in school, etc. etc.
As an aside, if I think of all of the people I've ever met who think of themselves as superior to others - and that would be more than a small handful of folks... Sure enough - not a one was homeschooled. Or unschooled. :-)
Colleen
I agree!
A few months back, someone on TV used the word "valedictorian" -
My then-9 year old asked "what's a valedictorian?" and I told him it means the person who gets the very best grades and graduates at the top of their class, usually in high school or college.
He looked at me, sort of laughed, and said "they have a WORD for that?? That's just sad." :-)
I was very academically successful in school and still have, tucked away somewhere, some of the trophies, certificates, pins, and other things I "earned" by getting good grades and good test scores over my in-school years. I am pretty sure I cannot exchange a single one of them for anything of actual value, though I do wish the Apple store would trade me a MacBook for a couple lovely, embossed award papers ;-)
School sets up the idea that there are people who are Superior and people who are Inferior, based on the ability of those people (those children) to complete academic tasks to the satisfaction of teachers and school systems and standardized test creators.
There are no award ceremonies to recognize those who unschool the very best :-) There are no plaques and awards and frames on the living room walls of only those unschoolers who score the highest or play the unschooling game most particularly well.
There is no unschooling game to play, in fact - no winners, no losers. I like that much better - and I agree with my son - picking out He Who Is Best and leaving everyone else in the school world aside as Not Best really does seem rather sad, especially for all those kids who know that no matter how hard they try, they'll never be Best - academics aren't their thing, or their home life is such that they're too tired or hungry to keep up in school, etc. etc.
As an aside, if I think of all of the people I've ever met who think of themselves as superior to others - and that would be more than a small handful of folks... Sure enough - not a one was homeschooled. Or unschooled. :-)
Colleen
Sandra Dodd
-=-Homeschooled kids in general spend time with a broader range of people than kids in school and are exposed to a wider range of situations. School "socialization" is very, very narrow in scope, and tends to stifle social skills. Even my super-introverted daughter has a muuuuuuch broader range of regular social experiences than if she were in school.-=-
My kids knew a much greater range of ages, and knew people from different parts of the country, and some from other countries. I hardly did, as a kid.
On the other hand, I grew up in a smallish town where anglos (any English speakers not native to the area) were 15% of the school population, native Americans (Pueblo kids) were 15% and the other 70% were northern New Mexico hispanic kids, most of whose parents spoke Spanish and English, and grandparents spoke only Spanish. I had a rich mix of friends, and never had an anglo boyfriend until I was in my 20's.
My kids' friends came from La Leche League, Pokemon games, the gaming store, and homeschooling groups. We were in Albuquerque, a city big enough to be more (voluntarily) segregated, and in central New Mexico the Indian kids go to their own schools and aren't much in town (not that my kids were in school in town anyway). So their range was as big, but different, from what I grew up with.
That's another thing to remember. My kids can't possibly grow up as I did. Those days are gone. That town has changed.
When parents enrich a child's life, the child's life is richer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids knew a much greater range of ages, and knew people from different parts of the country, and some from other countries. I hardly did, as a kid.
On the other hand, I grew up in a smallish town where anglos (any English speakers not native to the area) were 15% of the school population, native Americans (Pueblo kids) were 15% and the other 70% were northern New Mexico hispanic kids, most of whose parents spoke Spanish and English, and grandparents spoke only Spanish. I had a rich mix of friends, and never had an anglo boyfriend until I was in my 20's.
My kids' friends came from La Leche League, Pokemon games, the gaming store, and homeschooling groups. We were in Albuquerque, a city big enough to be more (voluntarily) segregated, and in central New Mexico the Indian kids go to their own schools and aren't much in town (not that my kids were in school in town anyway). So their range was as big, but different, from what I grew up with.
That's another thing to remember. My kids can't possibly grow up as I did. Those days are gone. That town has changed.
When parents enrich a child's life, the child's life is richer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-School sets up the idea that there are people who are Superior and people who are Inferior, based on the ability of those people (those children) to complete academic tasks to the satisfaction of teachers and school systems and standardized test creators. -=-
It's not an "idea." It is a fact, upon which huge amounts of money are heaped, in scholarships and honors (those certificates and trophies and badges and sashes cost money, too).
Once the test is set, or the crucible, some materials fail and some are transmuted into the gold the alchemists intend to create.
Then, though, the clock strikes midnight and much of it turns to mice and pumpkins. Amidst the confusion and disappointment are many people who will feel that stamp of inferiority for life.
School is a contest. There are scores, added up into grades. Kids have stats (GPAs). Some go pro (college, grad school, academia) and most retire and try to broker what they can salvage into resume bytes and jobs.
Some unschoolers hop in at that pro point, and do fine. :-)
The way the parents talk to the kids about their schools is more important than the school or lack of school.
I had a friend whose dad was superintendent. The friend wanted to go to the private school in town, and the family could afford it, but it wouldn't look good, politically (and that was a political job, truly) if the superintendent's children didn't go to those schools. So for those boys, they KNEW deeply, that their parents believed and were sorrowful, that they were going to an inferior school. Yikes!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's not an "idea." It is a fact, upon which huge amounts of money are heaped, in scholarships and honors (those certificates and trophies and badges and sashes cost money, too).
Once the test is set, or the crucible, some materials fail and some are transmuted into the gold the alchemists intend to create.
Then, though, the clock strikes midnight and much of it turns to mice and pumpkins. Amidst the confusion and disappointment are many people who will feel that stamp of inferiority for life.
School is a contest. There are scores, added up into grades. Kids have stats (GPAs). Some go pro (college, grad school, academia) and most retire and try to broker what they can salvage into resume bytes and jobs.
Some unschoolers hop in at that pro point, and do fine. :-)
The way the parents talk to the kids about their schools is more important than the school or lack of school.
I had a friend whose dad was superintendent. The friend wanted to go to the private school in town, and the family could afford it, but it wouldn't look good, politically (and that was a political job, truly) if the superintendent's children didn't go to those schools. So for those boys, they KNEW deeply, that their parents believed and were sorrowful, that they were going to an inferior school. Yikes!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CarenKH
=-=Additionally some of my family members have expressed to him that homeschooling is elitist and that we are eliminating opportunities for our children to mingle with "all natures of people"...=-=
By having a home with more than one room, more than enough food to eat, a personal computer that runs on electricity that goes right to our home, running water in our house, our own washer and dryer, more than enough clothing, and our own car, we are already decidedly living a very privileged life compared to much of the world. Would my refusing those things help those who didn't have them? By choosing to unschool, by showing that learning happens without lessons, coercion, textbooks, workbooks, draconion control of children, tests, or curriculum, unschoolers are showing others what's possible. Maybe people with more time and more inclincation than I can study that, see why it works, and implement it in a setting where more kids would benefit - but change for all won't happen without *someone* changing first. I won't sacrifice the wholeness, happiness, and joy in learning of my children so some folks might not feel bad, or so some other folks might not think we're elitist.
This is a place where getting clear with priorities can help. Is it more important that your kids are natural learners, in a home and relationship that supports who they are and what they're interested in, or that your family doesn't look privileged to others? Is what others think of you more important than how your kids live their lives?
Caren
By having a home with more than one room, more than enough food to eat, a personal computer that runs on electricity that goes right to our home, running water in our house, our own washer and dryer, more than enough clothing, and our own car, we are already decidedly living a very privileged life compared to much of the world. Would my refusing those things help those who didn't have them? By choosing to unschool, by showing that learning happens without lessons, coercion, textbooks, workbooks, draconion control of children, tests, or curriculum, unschoolers are showing others what's possible. Maybe people with more time and more inclincation than I can study that, see why it works, and implement it in a setting where more kids would benefit - but change for all won't happen without *someone* changing first. I won't sacrifice the wholeness, happiness, and joy in learning of my children so some folks might not feel bad, or so some other folks might not think we're elitist.
This is a place where getting clear with priorities can help. Is it more important that your kids are natural learners, in a home and relationship that supports who they are and what they're interested in, or that your family doesn't look privileged to others? Is what others think of you more important than how your kids live their lives?
Caren
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
As long as you're accepting of differences, there's no reason for your kids to think their different is better than other people's different.
There isn't be a reason for "This is why I like this, This is why I don't like this," to be heard by the kids as "People who like this are better than people who like that," unless that attitude is in the home.
There is probably no time in anyone's life when being different is more painful and less accepted than at school. Schools are all about kids accepting that one way of thinking and being is best for everyone. And if you're different, you're inferior. They're all about looking down on different choices.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> He felt it was in poor taste that they felt the need to establishThey didn't pick that attitude up from having a different experience. They picked it up from parents and, perhaps, teachers who were telling them their school was better than other schools, maybe even telling the kids that would make them better.
> they were "better" educated due to the radical teaching methodologies
> that they have been exposed to.
> He felt that some how we would end up imparting the messageMaking a choice you believe is right for you isn't the same as believing it's a choice everyone should make. Better for you won't be equated with better for everyone else unless that attitude is in the home.
> to our children ( very young now and not yet school going age)
> that our way of life was "better" than what our friends chose for their children
As long as you're accepting of differences, there's no reason for your kids to think their different is better than other people's different.
There isn't be a reason for "This is why I like this, This is why I don't like this," to be heard by the kids as "People who like this are better than people who like that," unless that attitude is in the home.
> He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds ofIt's much easier to accept differences in others when you're different yourself.
> people or know to handle all kinds of situations
There is probably no time in anyone's life when being different is more painful and less accepted than at school. Schools are all about kids accepting that one way of thinking and being is best for everyone. And if you're different, you're inferior. They're all about looking down on different choices.
Joyce
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Sandra Dodd
-=-It's much easier to accept differences in others when you're different yourself. -=-
Sweet!
A child can be very conservative in dress and atittude and still be different for just going to ANY different school than most of her friends. Or for being homeschooled.
Sandra
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Sweet!
A child can be very conservative in dress and atittude and still be different for just going to ANY different school than most of her friends. Or for being homeschooled.
Sandra
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K Pennell
I felt superior at school in some ways. I was a good student. Give me the info, I'll memorize it and parrot it back for the test. Then I'll forget it. I hated P.E., but academic classes were the ONE thing that gave me a sense of self worth. Then I went out in the real world, and I had nothing.
My son is already in the real world. His sense of self worth is not tied to something artificial. I haven't seen him "acting superior" at all. I've seen him be far kinder and friendlier to kids much older and younger than him. I wish I could say that about myself as a kid, but I can't. It warms my heart to see him playing and interacting in such a natural way. He is so much less afraid to "be himself" than I was as a kid. I would feel pressure to conform. He's fine to say "no, I don't want to do this" even if his friends are. It doesn't mean he is superior, but he doesn't feel "less than" if he doesn't conform to the group, either. I hope I'm expressing myself well enough.
My son is already in the real world. His sense of self worth is not tied to something artificial. I haven't seen him "acting superior" at all. I've seen him be far kinder and friendlier to kids much older and younger than him. I wish I could say that about myself as a kid, but I can't. It warms my heart to see him playing and interacting in such a natural way. He is so much less afraid to "be himself" than I was as a kid. I would feel pressure to conform. He's fine to say "no, I don't want to do this" even if his friends are. It doesn't mean he is superior, but he doesn't feel "less than" if he doesn't conform to the group, either. I hope I'm expressing myself well enough.
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Do unschooled kids end up feeling superior?
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 1:04 PM
-=-The
lack of comparing test scores does wonderful things for a community. When
parents aren't comparing a lot of very different types of children using
one flawed measurement scale, it helps prevent a culture in which the
children do that too.-=-
Roya wrote that. I'm glad. I had wanted to say that I was given a sense of superiority by school. My grades were good I made all-state chorus. Other blah-blah-fancy stuff. And those things weren't worth diddly once I left high school, except for me to compare myself to others in an artificial school-only way.
But back at my school, only a few people felt superior. A huge number felt average. Profoundly not special. And as many as that were certified, on papers that their parents were required to sign and return, failures.
Sandra
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------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Pam Sorooshian
> > He felt that some how we would end up imparting the messageConvoluted thinking, though. He'd rather purposely not do what he thinks is
> > to our children ( very young now and not yet school going age)
> > that our way of life was "better" than what our friends chose for their
> children>>
>
actually better because his friends are not?
-pam
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lukeandelizabeth
Hi, I haven't posted before but had some thoughts on this...
=== He felt that some how we would end up imparting the message to our children (
very young now and not yet school going age) that our way of life was "better"
than what our friends chose for their children. And while it very well may be
"better" which is why we choose it, that telling our children that it is
"better" may lead to problems later on. ====
My children, 10 and 8, don't think they are better than other children just because they are unschooled, but they do think they are luckier and they do think we parent better than most other parents they see. I think that's just great. They do have honest open criticism of our parenting too :-)
They don't boast about being luckier or thinking they have better parents though.
==== He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds of people or know to
handle all kinds of situations especially .What he worries is a sense of
"superiority" attitude that our children might acquire because I genuinely
believe that this way of living and learning is better for them.====
Because my two feel lucky they are very accepting of other people and do get along with all sorts of children; schooled, unschooled and home-schooled.
====I think of unschooling as a privilege,===
Absolutely!
====But my husband's concern made it sound like some sort of
belief system that would make my children NOT fit in. Kind of like saying "so
much individuality that you won't be able to get along with other people and
know how to connect because you know that you are better than others".====
Being lucky and privileged does not need to make you think you are better than others, in fact it might help you have a deep respect for people who haven't had the luck and privilege you have had.
==== While I don't
have a crystal ball, my hope is that if I radically unschool my children would
grow up to be inquisitive, kind people better than if I put them in school and
that would understand that what they experienced was a privilege and would look
at it that way only and not as something to be snobbish about. ====
That's exactly what I see in my children, they are able to be friends with all sorts of people, they tend to describe their lives from the perspective of being lucky, they downplay their difference.
Hope that helps
Elizabeth
=== He felt that some how we would end up imparting the message to our children (
very young now and not yet school going age) that our way of life was "better"
than what our friends chose for their children. And while it very well may be
"better" which is why we choose it, that telling our children that it is
"better" may lead to problems later on. ====
My children, 10 and 8, don't think they are better than other children just because they are unschooled, but they do think they are luckier and they do think we parent better than most other parents they see. I think that's just great. They do have honest open criticism of our parenting too :-)
They don't boast about being luckier or thinking they have better parents though.
==== He wants our children to learn to get along with all kinds of people or know to
handle all kinds of situations especially .What he worries is a sense of
"superiority" attitude that our children might acquire because I genuinely
believe that this way of living and learning is better for them.====
Because my two feel lucky they are very accepting of other people and do get along with all sorts of children; schooled, unschooled and home-schooled.
====I think of unschooling as a privilege,===
Absolutely!
====But my husband's concern made it sound like some sort of
belief system that would make my children NOT fit in. Kind of like saying "so
much individuality that you won't be able to get along with other people and
know how to connect because you know that you are better than others".====
Being lucky and privileged does not need to make you think you are better than others, in fact it might help you have a deep respect for people who haven't had the luck and privilege you have had.
==== While I don't
have a crystal ball, my hope is that if I radically unschool my children would
grow up to be inquisitive, kind people better than if I put them in school and
that would understand that what they experienced was a privilege and would look
at it that way only and not as something to be snobbish about. ====
That's exactly what I see in my children, they are able to be friends with all sorts of people, they tend to describe their lives from the perspective of being lucky, they downplay their difference.
Hope that helps
Elizabeth
Schuyler
>>My husband had a recent interaction with a group of individuals who have been a to a particular alternative education setting (a sort of open school) . He felt that they were snooty, felt that they were making an effort to prove themselves superior due to their educational setting . There was a lot of mainstream school bashing going on there and he felt that they did not consider the feelings of those who might have been to school. His own education and mine have been mainstream. He felt it was in poor taste that they felt the need to establish they were "better" educated due to the radical teaching methodologies that they have been exposed to.I wonder if the superior sounding attitude was shyness and in group behaviour. I'm not shy, but I'm on the introverted side of the scale. Although extroverted for my immediate family. I tend to not to be good in conversations that are more social in nature. I'm good with ideas but I'm not so good with general topic conversations. I imagine that I can come off as aloof or superior, even though I don't think I feel loftier than thou.
It may also be that there were riffing off of each other. Enjoying the company of each other in a clique sort of way. One on one they may not have spoken about themselves or of their education in the same way as they did in a group. Particularly as the group they were in existed in relationship to their common educational experience.
Maybe they were advertising their school. Maybe they were talking up their good experiences and radical educational methodologies because they really wanted to big up their school.
I wouldn't hold it against them or their educational background. I bet it is a rare thing to have someone talk well about their school experience. When I dropped out of high school I know I wasn't talking about how brilliant my experience had been.
Schuyler
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