Cocooning by teenagers
LR
Will some of you with older kids/teens share if you've had experience
with cocooning/very narrowed scopes of interest?
I've been reading and waiting and thinking about this stuff and I hope
I've formed my thoughts clearly enough here.
I've come to understand my teenage son is likely going through a
"cocooning" sort of stage through an offlist conversation (thanks!). I'm
still working on my own adjustment to it. I feel like maybe I'm falling
into benign neglect rather than active unschooling and I feel troubled
by that. I want to respect his space and his process and maintain a
feeling of joy in his exploration of his passions (video gaming,
flipnotes and to a lesser extent watching Mythbusters over and over).
He's 14, and pretty well into a late night, sleep most of the day
routine. I understand that and am content to let him find his own rhythm
with his needs for rest. My own nature tends toward night owl behaviors.
Right now my own life tends to happen more during the day though so I
try to keep a routine that lets me be more effective as a day person
since I struggle with switching back and forth too often now. ;-) I will
poke my head in the door of his room (after knocking) and see if he
needs anything to eat or drink or just to say hi a few times a day.
Sometimes I'll ask about his game and what's happening in it but often
he's online with friends so I don't want to be intrusive. When he comes
downstairs for a break I make sure to be available to chat if he wants
to or invite him to do something with me. Even though he's done his own
laundry since he was young (he wanted to learn how to do it and has just
done it since) I'll ask if he needs anything washed if I'm doing a load.
I try to keep things like that going for the connection. I wonder if I'm
doing enough to help his world expand or if I'm missing something.
I still look for things to do I think he might be interested in, places
to go, things to try. I have picked up here and there books or other
items I think might help him pursue whatever interest he's engaged in or
might be something new to engage in. I look for activities to offer to
take him too. He is taking Parkour classes once a week. We offered to
take him twice a week but for now he's content with it as it is so we
just said it's an open offer if he changes his mind. We have a few
homeschool groups we hang out with and this could be part of my problem
with the uncertainty. One group I enjoy far more than the other. The
third we've been touch and go with because it's the same day as Parkour
and gets hard to manage everything on time. There's really only one
other teen my son feels connected with there that we do get to arrange
time together at other times so he doesn't seem to bothered by not going
to that group. The people are nice but all academically inclined from
what I've observed.
The one I enjoy is the efforts of a friend of mine and although I
think she and I are the only unschoolers, the other folks that come
generally seem to see it as a social time and are easy going with us who
do not do "school" at home. There are a few teens there and it is pretty
relaxed.
The second group... is mainly made up of people who seem to do school at
home. Even the others that I think might be unschoolers have kids who
seem to be very into many different things. There is a lot of
conversation about curriculum, have-to's and pushing/making kids do
things even when they don't want to do it. There also seems to be some
sort of rift/ division between the people who have been there a long
time/school at home types and newer people who may or may not be school
at home, ecclectic or however they identify their education path. I
honestly don't feel great when I hang out there. There are a couple
people I enjoy talking with but I don't feel like I "fit" there. My son
loves hanging out with the teens though. So I bring him there. I usually
bring something to do. If it wasn't such a drive I'd consider dropping
him off and letting him hang with the teens and going to do something on
my own. They have an offshoot book club that my son tried a couple of
times but then he just never mentioned it and if I mention it to see if
he's interested I get a non-committal answer with a shoulder shrug, so I
say if he's interested I'll take him, if not, okay. They had a Dungeons
and Dragons meetup too but that suddenly ended in kind of a strange way
and apparently no one was willing to take over as Dungeon Master so that
was that. Which sucks because he really liked it.
I guess where I'm going is that he is really absorbed with the gaming
and other than the Parkour and park days doesn't seem inclined to leave
the house. Most attempts to offer new things to try out or check into or
explore are rejected. I'm worried he is missing lots of fantastic
opportunities that might lead to other interests he'd like to pursue.
I'm worried when he's older he'll say he wishes I'd pushed him to get
out of his room more.
Not really knowing or having had the opportunity to see and talk with
other unschoolers/teen unschoolers I'm having a hard time relaxing. My
husband is having a hard time trusting our son will eventually move into
wanting to do other things. He has visions of those negative stereotypes
in his head of the 35 year old gamer living off their parents with no
motivation to move toward self sufficiency. I've asked if he's
interested in reading about what other unschoolers have for experience
and sometimes he is. We've never been to a conference and I think it
will help if we can get to one, just getting time, money and days off to
line up all at the same time has proven to be a challenge. (Not to
mention having him in this country).
His dad is in the military and has been deployed many times in his life.
He's hopefully retiring at the end of this year. Totaling up all the
deployments and other "away" times my husband has been gone close to
half of my son's life. I understand that has an impact on us all. When
my son was little he explored everything I could find for him. Around
the time he was 7 his dad deployed and my son decided handwriting wasn't
fun anymore. Up until then he was often asking for paper to write on,
things to write with. He struggled with forming his letters and would
get frustrated with himself. I tried to just be encouraging and let him
know that everyone I know had to practice in order to get it the way
they wanted to. I don't know if I helped or harmed but I started
re-learning to write left handed again to show him that even I would
have to practice handwriting. (I had to write lefty one year after
injuring my wrist when I was in grade school.) My writing with my left
was far less legible than his handwriting. But at any rate, I didn't
push it and when he said he didn't want to do that anymore I let it go.
He still won't write if he can help it. I get that computers are
everywhere and likely he won't need to hand write the same way I did
growing up, it's still a concern. When he does write it's the same as
when he was seven and he still gets mad at how it looks. (He chooses to
write things like his passwords and wish list or put stuff on the
grocery list if I'm not there when we run out of something.) It's kind
of the same with reading books. He used to read books a LOT and now he
doesn't seem to be interested... not even in the Halo series that he
seemed to really enjoy.
I'm amazed at how many things he can memorize. But he doesn't remember
our phone number or our address. Granted there's not much need in
general because we are usually together but it just seems odd to me that
he chooses not to memorize those things. He does go with friends
sometimes and it seems to me that knowing our address is kind of
important if anything should go wrong.
We moved to where we are now about 16 months ago. This move was really
hard on him. When we moved from the south up to NJ he wasn't super
attached to anyone in particular. During the 7 years we were in NJ he
developed a number of friendships that we know were really hard on him
to leave behind. We actually got him an XBox and his dad got one so they
could keep in touch while his dad was in Korea but we also knew it would
help him stay in touch with friends who also had XBoxes. We got him his
own cell phone so he could use that as well. It's kind of strange to me
because he talks about missing friends, especially those not on XBox,
but he doesn't reach out to connect with them. They have either their
own cell phones, facebook or email but neither my son nor they will
reach out to each other. For the few I'm friends with the parents, we
seem to end up being go-betweens which is fine, it just feels odd to me.
I miss when he was little and still wanted to hang out with me whether
it was watching something on tv, playing a game together, getting
outside for a bit, cooking together or whatever all those things are we
used to do together. I found the uncharted waters easier when he was
little. I hope I can draw on the wisdom of those of you who have already
gone through this stage for some things to think about to find our way
through this next stage.
I'm wordy. Lots on my gray matter these days. :-)
Thanks for being here with the space to hash this stuff out.
LisaR
with cocooning/very narrowed scopes of interest?
I've been reading and waiting and thinking about this stuff and I hope
I've formed my thoughts clearly enough here.
I've come to understand my teenage son is likely going through a
"cocooning" sort of stage through an offlist conversation (thanks!). I'm
still working on my own adjustment to it. I feel like maybe I'm falling
into benign neglect rather than active unschooling and I feel troubled
by that. I want to respect his space and his process and maintain a
feeling of joy in his exploration of his passions (video gaming,
flipnotes and to a lesser extent watching Mythbusters over and over).
He's 14, and pretty well into a late night, sleep most of the day
routine. I understand that and am content to let him find his own rhythm
with his needs for rest. My own nature tends toward night owl behaviors.
Right now my own life tends to happen more during the day though so I
try to keep a routine that lets me be more effective as a day person
since I struggle with switching back and forth too often now. ;-) I will
poke my head in the door of his room (after knocking) and see if he
needs anything to eat or drink or just to say hi a few times a day.
Sometimes I'll ask about his game and what's happening in it but often
he's online with friends so I don't want to be intrusive. When he comes
downstairs for a break I make sure to be available to chat if he wants
to or invite him to do something with me. Even though he's done his own
laundry since he was young (he wanted to learn how to do it and has just
done it since) I'll ask if he needs anything washed if I'm doing a load.
I try to keep things like that going for the connection. I wonder if I'm
doing enough to help his world expand or if I'm missing something.
I still look for things to do I think he might be interested in, places
to go, things to try. I have picked up here and there books or other
items I think might help him pursue whatever interest he's engaged in or
might be something new to engage in. I look for activities to offer to
take him too. He is taking Parkour classes once a week. We offered to
take him twice a week but for now he's content with it as it is so we
just said it's an open offer if he changes his mind. We have a few
homeschool groups we hang out with and this could be part of my problem
with the uncertainty. One group I enjoy far more than the other. The
third we've been touch and go with because it's the same day as Parkour
and gets hard to manage everything on time. There's really only one
other teen my son feels connected with there that we do get to arrange
time together at other times so he doesn't seem to bothered by not going
to that group. The people are nice but all academically inclined from
what I've observed.
The one I enjoy is the efforts of a friend of mine and although I
think she and I are the only unschoolers, the other folks that come
generally seem to see it as a social time and are easy going with us who
do not do "school" at home. There are a few teens there and it is pretty
relaxed.
The second group... is mainly made up of people who seem to do school at
home. Even the others that I think might be unschoolers have kids who
seem to be very into many different things. There is a lot of
conversation about curriculum, have-to's and pushing/making kids do
things even when they don't want to do it. There also seems to be some
sort of rift/ division between the people who have been there a long
time/school at home types and newer people who may or may not be school
at home, ecclectic or however they identify their education path. I
honestly don't feel great when I hang out there. There are a couple
people I enjoy talking with but I don't feel like I "fit" there. My son
loves hanging out with the teens though. So I bring him there. I usually
bring something to do. If it wasn't such a drive I'd consider dropping
him off and letting him hang with the teens and going to do something on
my own. They have an offshoot book club that my son tried a couple of
times but then he just never mentioned it and if I mention it to see if
he's interested I get a non-committal answer with a shoulder shrug, so I
say if he's interested I'll take him, if not, okay. They had a Dungeons
and Dragons meetup too but that suddenly ended in kind of a strange way
and apparently no one was willing to take over as Dungeon Master so that
was that. Which sucks because he really liked it.
I guess where I'm going is that he is really absorbed with the gaming
and other than the Parkour and park days doesn't seem inclined to leave
the house. Most attempts to offer new things to try out or check into or
explore are rejected. I'm worried he is missing lots of fantastic
opportunities that might lead to other interests he'd like to pursue.
I'm worried when he's older he'll say he wishes I'd pushed him to get
out of his room more.
Not really knowing or having had the opportunity to see and talk with
other unschoolers/teen unschoolers I'm having a hard time relaxing. My
husband is having a hard time trusting our son will eventually move into
wanting to do other things. He has visions of those negative stereotypes
in his head of the 35 year old gamer living off their parents with no
motivation to move toward self sufficiency. I've asked if he's
interested in reading about what other unschoolers have for experience
and sometimes he is. We've never been to a conference and I think it
will help if we can get to one, just getting time, money and days off to
line up all at the same time has proven to be a challenge. (Not to
mention having him in this country).
His dad is in the military and has been deployed many times in his life.
He's hopefully retiring at the end of this year. Totaling up all the
deployments and other "away" times my husband has been gone close to
half of my son's life. I understand that has an impact on us all. When
my son was little he explored everything I could find for him. Around
the time he was 7 his dad deployed and my son decided handwriting wasn't
fun anymore. Up until then he was often asking for paper to write on,
things to write with. He struggled with forming his letters and would
get frustrated with himself. I tried to just be encouraging and let him
know that everyone I know had to practice in order to get it the way
they wanted to. I don't know if I helped or harmed but I started
re-learning to write left handed again to show him that even I would
have to practice handwriting. (I had to write lefty one year after
injuring my wrist when I was in grade school.) My writing with my left
was far less legible than his handwriting. But at any rate, I didn't
push it and when he said he didn't want to do that anymore I let it go.
He still won't write if he can help it. I get that computers are
everywhere and likely he won't need to hand write the same way I did
growing up, it's still a concern. When he does write it's the same as
when he was seven and he still gets mad at how it looks. (He chooses to
write things like his passwords and wish list or put stuff on the
grocery list if I'm not there when we run out of something.) It's kind
of the same with reading books. He used to read books a LOT and now he
doesn't seem to be interested... not even in the Halo series that he
seemed to really enjoy.
I'm amazed at how many things he can memorize. But he doesn't remember
our phone number or our address. Granted there's not much need in
general because we are usually together but it just seems odd to me that
he chooses not to memorize those things. He does go with friends
sometimes and it seems to me that knowing our address is kind of
important if anything should go wrong.
We moved to where we are now about 16 months ago. This move was really
hard on him. When we moved from the south up to NJ he wasn't super
attached to anyone in particular. During the 7 years we were in NJ he
developed a number of friendships that we know were really hard on him
to leave behind. We actually got him an XBox and his dad got one so they
could keep in touch while his dad was in Korea but we also knew it would
help him stay in touch with friends who also had XBoxes. We got him his
own cell phone so he could use that as well. It's kind of strange to me
because he talks about missing friends, especially those not on XBox,
but he doesn't reach out to connect with them. They have either their
own cell phones, facebook or email but neither my son nor they will
reach out to each other. For the few I'm friends with the parents, we
seem to end up being go-betweens which is fine, it just feels odd to me.
I miss when he was little and still wanted to hang out with me whether
it was watching something on tv, playing a game together, getting
outside for a bit, cooking together or whatever all those things are we
used to do together. I found the uncharted waters easier when he was
little. I hope I can draw on the wisdom of those of you who have already
gone through this stage for some things to think about to find our way
through this next stage.
I'm wordy. Lots on my gray matter these days. :-)
Thanks for being here with the space to hash this stuff out.
LisaR
dana_burdick
You might consider moving his computer out in a more common area. We have a room off the kitchen where we have a big craft table and my son (15) is set up there with his computer. He is very much into playing games and chatting with online friends and spends many hours each day with it. With him being so close to the kitchen, we have more bits of conversation throughout the day. He shares a lot about his game and the players involved. There is lots and lots of listening on my part, but I can do that while cooking or whatever and it works out great. I also get a chance to help him out if he is having a difficult time with any players. He's learned so much recently about group dynamics and how to gracefully navigate some difficult personalities. It's really been enjoyable to see his growth in this area.
If your son has a haven set up in his room and doesn't want to move things, you might consider getting an IPAD or Window's Surface so he is more mobile. It's not a duplicate of a full on computer, but he might enjoy sitting with it in other parts of the house to read mail or whatever.
You might also consider getting him a gaming magazine subscription. My son always looks forward to it coming in the mail.
-Dana
If your son has a haven set up in his room and doesn't want to move things, you might consider getting an IPAD or Window's Surface so he is more mobile. It's not a duplicate of a full on computer, but he might enjoy sitting with it in other parts of the house to read mail or whatever.
You might also consider getting him a gaming magazine subscription. My son always looks forward to it coming in the mail.
-Dana
Sandra Dodd
Kirby, my oldest, went through a couple of periods of being very quiet and insular. He had karate twice a week, and went to the gaming shop, but when he was home he wasn't hanging out with the rest of us much. I worried that we weren't being welcoming enough, maybe, but he was tired a lot, and playing games, and he was growing. During growth spurts and times of hormonal upheaval, it's not good to expect that budding men will behave as little boys. They plateau, and then grow again, and eventually it levels out.
One bad thing schools do is make strong young men sit in too-small desks, lined up in random fashion and told to be quiet. It's not healthy for lots of reasons—physical, social, emotional...
Parents can cause some similar damage, I think, if they're not careful.
I recommend movies, as shared and bonding experiences. Movies, music, humor.
Sandra
One bad thing schools do is make strong young men sit in too-small desks, lined up in random fashion and told to be quiet. It's not healthy for lots of reasons—physical, social, emotional...
Parents can cause some similar damage, I think, if they're not careful.
I recommend movies, as shared and bonding experiences. Movies, music, humor.
Sandra
LR
Thank you for this. Not long after I sent the email to the group the
other day, we made a decision to go out to eat which we don't do
regularly anymore because I have food allergies that are kind of a pain
to work around, it's pretty expensive and we are trying to get to a
happier place financially. I think maybe we all just needed a relaxing
night out of the house though because when I suggested it both my
husband and my son were enthusiastic about it. Then when we got home my
son stayed downstairs to watch Walking Dead with us. I still chuckle
that the kid who was scared of Scooby Doo cartoons now loves playing
zombie games and watching Walking Dead. It felt really nice having him
there with us. I think it may become a regular thing- watching Walking
Dead together.
I'll keep inviting and offering. I asked him if he finds it annoying
when I look for things to check out that I think he might be interested
in and ask him about them. He said he doesn't mind, he's just not
interested in most of them right now. I asked him also to let me know if
he thought of anything that would help him do more of what he loves. We
are getting a small tax refund this year and as we've done for the last
couple of years we save some, use some to pay a bill and the rest is
split it evenly between the three of us in the family. I asked him what
he thought he would do with it. There's a computer program he has been
hoping to get that has something to do with recording himself playing
video games... like others on youtube that do walkthroughs or reviews. I
forget the name but I'll ask him again so I can try to learn some of it
as well.
It's an interesting phase, this boy becoming man. Shortly before he
turned 14 he was able to grow a full beard. I was really not ready for
that! He's grown around 6 inches in the last year so I guess it makes
sense that all that energy going into growing would affect other aspects
of his life.
Dana, thanks for the ideas about the location of his computer. He
definitely enjoys having his "command center" (as we refer to it around
here) in his room. ;-) We actually used to have the XBox and computer in
a common area of the house. I have a hard time with the noise (he's an
exuberant player at times) and with the screen motion of the game play
(or even watching too much tv) giving me a sense of motion sickness.
Also his privacy is important to me, my being earshot range for his
conversations with his friends might disrupt their flow. If he knows
things are going to get loud (he uses headphones already) he'll close
the door and I'll put on some soothing background noise. It works well
for us overall. Something portable is an interesting idea. I'll look
into that some more.
LisaR
other day, we made a decision to go out to eat which we don't do
regularly anymore because I have food allergies that are kind of a pain
to work around, it's pretty expensive and we are trying to get to a
happier place financially. I think maybe we all just needed a relaxing
night out of the house though because when I suggested it both my
husband and my son were enthusiastic about it. Then when we got home my
son stayed downstairs to watch Walking Dead with us. I still chuckle
that the kid who was scared of Scooby Doo cartoons now loves playing
zombie games and watching Walking Dead. It felt really nice having him
there with us. I think it may become a regular thing- watching Walking
Dead together.
I'll keep inviting and offering. I asked him if he finds it annoying
when I look for things to check out that I think he might be interested
in and ask him about them. He said he doesn't mind, he's just not
interested in most of them right now. I asked him also to let me know if
he thought of anything that would help him do more of what he loves. We
are getting a small tax refund this year and as we've done for the last
couple of years we save some, use some to pay a bill and the rest is
split it evenly between the three of us in the family. I asked him what
he thought he would do with it. There's a computer program he has been
hoping to get that has something to do with recording himself playing
video games... like others on youtube that do walkthroughs or reviews. I
forget the name but I'll ask him again so I can try to learn some of it
as well.
It's an interesting phase, this boy becoming man. Shortly before he
turned 14 he was able to grow a full beard. I was really not ready for
that! He's grown around 6 inches in the last year so I guess it makes
sense that all that energy going into growing would affect other aspects
of his life.
Dana, thanks for the ideas about the location of his computer. He
definitely enjoys having his "command center" (as we refer to it around
here) in his room. ;-) We actually used to have the XBox and computer in
a common area of the house. I have a hard time with the noise (he's an
exuberant player at times) and with the screen motion of the game play
(or even watching too much tv) giving me a sense of motion sickness.
Also his privacy is important to me, my being earshot range for his
conversations with his friends might disrupt their flow. If he knows
things are going to get loud (he uses headphones already) he'll close
the door and I'll put on some soothing background noise. It works well
for us overall. Something portable is an interesting idea. I'll look
into that some more.
LisaR
On 2/11/2013 10:30 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Kirby, my oldest, went through a couple of periods of being very quiet and insular. He had karate twice a week, and went to the gaming shop, but when he was home he wasn't hanging out with the rest of us much. I worried that we weren't being welcoming enough, maybe, but he was tired a lot, and playing games, and he was growing. During growth spurts and times of hormonal upheaval, it's not good to expect that budding men will behave as little boys. They plateau, and then grow again, and eventually it levels out.
>
> One bad thing schools do is make strong young men sit in too-small desks, lined up in random fashion and told to be quiet. It's not healthy for lots of reasonsphysical, social, emotional...
> Parents can cause some similar damage, I think, if they're not careful.
>
> I recommend movies, as shared and bonding experiences. Movies, music, humor.
>
> Sandra
>
>
Sandra Dodd
This jumped up and tweaked my nose this morning:
-=-and we are trying to get to a happier place financially.-=-
People spend money on counsellors to be happier.
If a family isn't at peace and a meal out will help, the idea that saving money would lead to happiness strikes me as odd.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
If someone's thinking "we will be happier when..." it's worth remembering that there are ways to be happy now, without waiting.
This isn't criticism of the post or of the author or family, just a reminder for everyone that joy can be now. Maybe the mom with allergies could just drink water and watch her family eat happily, things that she doesn't usually make!
And for anyone thinking they have more money than happiness and might could use a counselor, here's my recently-finished collection: http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy
And for those who don't have money for a counsellor, there are these things
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/being
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-and we are trying to get to a happier place financially.-=-
People spend money on counsellors to be happier.
If a family isn't at peace and a meal out will help, the idea that saving money would lead to happiness strikes me as odd.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
If someone's thinking "we will be happier when..." it's worth remembering that there are ways to be happy now, without waiting.
This isn't criticism of the post or of the author or family, just a reminder for everyone that joy can be now. Maybe the mom with allergies could just drink water and watch her family eat happily, things that she doesn't usually make!
And for anyone thinking they have more money than happiness and might could use a counselor, here's my recently-finished collection: http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy
And for those who don't have money for a counsellor, there are these things
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/being
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
>>There's a computer program he has beenhoping to get that has something to do with recording himself playing
video games... like others on youtube that do walkthroughs or reviews. <<
There is a program called Fraps that you can download to use for free. www.fraps.com. The free version works, I think, almost identically to the pay for version but you don't get the words www.fraps.com at the bottom of the screen. Simon and Linnaea used it more than a few years ago and it was easy and great. He may already know about that option, but if not...
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pomondade
I used gamebooster by the razer peripheral company. Not only does it record for free with out putting the website on it, but it also closes programs when you start playing a game then reopens them when you close the game. This is to help boost performance. My boss and I both bought fraps years ago, but I just use game booster now.
--- In [email protected], Schuyler wrote:
>
> >>There's a computer program he has been
>
> hoping to get that has something to do with recording himself playing
> video games... like others on youtube that do walkthroughs or reviews. <<
>
> There is a program called Fraps that you can download to use for free. www.fraps.com. The free version works, I think, almost identically to the pay for version but you don't get the words www.fraps.com at the bottom of the screen. Simon and Linnaea used it more than a few years ago and it was easy and great. He may already know about that option, but if not...
>
> Schuyler
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
pomondade
Sorry i forgot to add the link
http://www.razerzone.com/gamebooster
http://www.razerzone.com/gamebooster
--- In [email protected], Schuyler wrote:
>
> >>There's a computer program he has been
>
> hoping to get that has something to do with recording himself playing
> video games... like others on youtube that do walkthroughs or reviews. <<
>
> There is a program called Fraps that you can download to use for free. www.fraps.com. The free version works, I think, almost identically to the pay for version but you don't get the words www.fraps.com at the bottom of the screen. Simon and Linnaea used it more than a few years ago and it was easy and great. He may already know about that option, but if not...
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> Schuyler
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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