family decisions
tania
hello to all,
not new to the list but hardly ever writing. so i present myself: 32,
a german in italy, unschooling since pregnancy with the first, now
nearly four, the second son three months.
we are currently looking for a new house. we are not bound to a place,
not even to a country, my husband and i both dont work, mainly because
we both want to stay home with the kids. i am asking myself how to
involve my son in the decision making where to move.
my husband and i would like to move close to people we like, we want
to eat together with, maybe even do projects together like farming,
animals, music and so on. and to live close to children who dont go to
kindergarden and school - something pretty rare in italy. we are
currently looking together with a unschooling family with three girls.
we also want to be not too far from the sea and in the countryside.
my son would like to live closer to his friends (also the same family)
but mainly he wants to live close to or even with my parents who live
in germany. germany would be - because of having to attend school -
only a solution for nearly three years, but also then my son could
decide that being close to his grandparents is more important than not
going to school? we can make it happen to go to germany. i dont know
if he can really tell what a difference for example the weather makes.
he doesnt really understand (i think) that it is much warmer here than
in germany and what this means for his life (he spends a good part of
every day out and up to now he dislikes the cold very much). he says
he wants to be close to the sea, he wants to have animals around and
so on but his main point remains being close to his grandparents. (i
would also like to live with my parents, but my father is still
working and is in general quite bound to his city where he was also
born. plus: they both dont speak italian.)
all this so you understand a bit the kind of decision we are making.
what would you do in a situation like that? i hope you understand my
question, thank you, tania
not new to the list but hardly ever writing. so i present myself: 32,
a german in italy, unschooling since pregnancy with the first, now
nearly four, the second son three months.
we are currently looking for a new house. we are not bound to a place,
not even to a country, my husband and i both dont work, mainly because
we both want to stay home with the kids. i am asking myself how to
involve my son in the decision making where to move.
my husband and i would like to move close to people we like, we want
to eat together with, maybe even do projects together like farming,
animals, music and so on. and to live close to children who dont go to
kindergarden and school - something pretty rare in italy. we are
currently looking together with a unschooling family with three girls.
we also want to be not too far from the sea and in the countryside.
my son would like to live closer to his friends (also the same family)
but mainly he wants to live close to or even with my parents who live
in germany. germany would be - because of having to attend school -
only a solution for nearly three years, but also then my son could
decide that being close to his grandparents is more important than not
going to school? we can make it happen to go to germany. i dont know
if he can really tell what a difference for example the weather makes.
he doesnt really understand (i think) that it is much warmer here than
in germany and what this means for his life (he spends a good part of
every day out and up to now he dislikes the cold very much). he says
he wants to be close to the sea, he wants to have animals around and
so on but his main point remains being close to his grandparents. (i
would also like to live with my parents, but my father is still
working and is in general quite bound to his city where he was also
born. plus: they both dont speak italian.)
all this so you understand a bit the kind of decision we are making.
what would you do in a situation like that? i hope you understand my
question, thank you, tania
jencookies43
When my family moved from California to Arizona, I was miserable. I was 7 years old and most of my belongings were sold, without my permission, to make room for more "important" things. As a child I only knew that I was loosing... Things, family, friends, familiarity.
Having said all that, I would take your family on a vacation where you and your husband would like to move to. Or view as much as you can on the web, in travel books, etc. talk about what it would be like. Ask him his concerns and joys. Be very familiar with him and any fears he may have. Explain about the cold weather and having to attend school. Let him experience the cold weather in a visit to a colder climate near you. Maybe he has changed his opinion on being cold. Talk about what school would be like in Germany. Inform him about every aspect that you two can think of together.
After our move to Arizona, my grandparents would always drive out to pick my sister and I up so we could spend the whole summer with them. It was bliss for me. That maybe something you can present to him as well. That he can spend time with his grandpa for a few weeks here and there.
When my husband and I were thinking of moving, we rented a house in the town we were interested in. The kids were apprehensive about a new unfamiliar place to live. By renting the house and exploring the town, after 4 days, my kids were all on board and ready to move. And, we did not sell a single one of their belongings. ;)
~Jen
Having said all that, I would take your family on a vacation where you and your husband would like to move to. Or view as much as you can on the web, in travel books, etc. talk about what it would be like. Ask him his concerns and joys. Be very familiar with him and any fears he may have. Explain about the cold weather and having to attend school. Let him experience the cold weather in a visit to a colder climate near you. Maybe he has changed his opinion on being cold. Talk about what school would be like in Germany. Inform him about every aspect that you two can think of together.
After our move to Arizona, my grandparents would always drive out to pick my sister and I up so we could spend the whole summer with them. It was bliss for me. That maybe something you can present to him as well. That he can spend time with his grandpa for a few weeks here and there.
When my husband and I were thinking of moving, we rented a house in the town we were interested in. The kids were apprehensive about a new unfamiliar place to live. By renting the house and exploring the town, after 4 days, my kids were all on board and ready to move. And, we did not sell a single one of their belongings. ;)
~Jen
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 24, 2012, at 4:46 PM, tania wrote:
I think it's easier to visit grandparents for extended stays than friends that you don't see often.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> my son would like to live closer to his friends (also the same family)While I would take his preferences seriously, it's good to recognize that he's 4 and at 5, at 8, at 12 he'll be a very different person with different needs. It wouldn't be reasonable to build a life around someone who won't be there next year, so to speak.
> but mainly he wants to live close to or even with my parents who live
> in germany.
I think it's easier to visit grandparents for extended stays than friends that you don't see often.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tucsonhmn
We had a similar situation and we regret our decision... We moved to Arizona in 2004 and my son was born there. Originally my husband and I moved there from Pennsylvania which is 2000 miles away across the U.S. We were happy with our homeschool community and other friends. We loved the Arizona weather, the lifestyle, the pace, etc.
When our son was almost 5 we thought that it may be better to move back to where family was in Pennsylvania and New Jersey for various reasons. Since we arrived here we have had so many problems and family was not really as close and supportive as the friends we left behind. My son's behavior deteriorated from not having the type of friends he left. He really is an outdoor desert kid with the need to be outdoors all year around with friends...and with the winters, people tend to stay inside where we now live when itis cold. Our unschooling is very boring. Even though we still homeschool here, the homeschool community is lacking the unity we used to have. Our son is turning eight in February and we are trying to plan a move back to Arizona. It was not worth the move here as we could have just done extended visits with family and kept living the way we did in the warmth of Arizona.
I am not sure what traveling to Germany from Italy is like but have your son consider how much time he will actually spend in Germany with family and being in school versus being in Italy with friends in unschooling freedom and extended visits with family.
When our son was almost 5 we thought that it may be better to move back to where family was in Pennsylvania and New Jersey for various reasons. Since we arrived here we have had so many problems and family was not really as close and supportive as the friends we left behind. My son's behavior deteriorated from not having the type of friends he left. He really is an outdoor desert kid with the need to be outdoors all year around with friends...and with the winters, people tend to stay inside where we now live when itis cold. Our unschooling is very boring. Even though we still homeschool here, the homeschool community is lacking the unity we used to have. Our son is turning eight in February and we are trying to plan a move back to Arizona. It was not worth the move here as we could have just done extended visits with family and kept living the way we did in the warmth of Arizona.
I am not sure what traveling to Germany from Italy is like but have your son consider how much time he will actually spend in Germany with family and being in school versus being in Italy with friends in unschooling freedom and extended visits with family.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2012, at 4:46 PM, tania wrote:
>
> > my son would like to live closer to his friends (also the same family)
> > but mainly he wants to live close to or even with my parents who live
> > in germany.
>
> While I would take his preferences seriously, it's good to recognize that he's 4 and at 5, at 8, at 12 he'll be a very different person with different needs. It wouldn't be reasonable to build a life around someone who won't be there next year, so to speak.
>
> I think it's easier to visit grandparents for extended stays than friends that you don't see often.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Rippy and Graham Dusseldorp
-=- what would you do in a situation like that? -=-
I would physically spend time in the places I'm interested in living. I would rent a place to stay (or camp or caravan) and imagine what our unschooling lives would be like in that community. I would think about the types of activities we would do, places we would visit, resources we would have access to, travel distances to family and friends, etc.
-=- i dont know if he can really tell what a difference for example the weather makes. he doesnt really understand (i think) that it is much warmer here than in germany and what this means for his life (he spends a good part of every day out and up to now he dislikes the cold very much).-=-
Could you go for an extended holiday to visit your parents this winter? It would give you and your son an idea of the types of activities he could do in the winter. You can also get an idea of how it would be like to visit your family for an extended period of time. Maybe their house is big enough to comfortably stay there for a few weeks at a time. If not, you can research short term rental possibilities in the area. If your son is thriving there, it might be a good option.
This concerns me though:
-=- unschooling since pregnancy with the first, now nearly four, the second son three months. -=-
You have been *learning* about unschooling since pregnancy, but you have not yet started unschooling. Unschooling is an alternative to school. A family starts unschooling once their eldest child reaches school age.
This distinction is important, especially in a place like Europe. When your children are very young, there are usually lots of other preschool children around. It's easier to fit in and not stand out. When the majority of your son's age mates start going to school, you may face some scrutiny and your son may miss having friends during school hours. I imagine a place like Germany could be isolating for unschoolers. Most children may start attending school before attendance is compulsory and German homeschooled children are a rarity.
Are your parents supportive of unschooling? Some grandparents feel very uncomfortable when their grandchild is the only child in their city not attending school (we have personal experience with this). That might be something to think about.
-=- my husband and i would like to move close to people we like, we want to eat together with, maybe even do projects together like farming, animals, music and so on. -=-
Have you heard of wwoofing (world wide opportunities on organic farms)? It is an exchange of volunteer labour for room and board on a working farm. You might find interesting opportunities with them, and sometimes wwoofers are homeschoolers themselves. Some places may have space for two families. It might be an inexpensive way to explore different areas to live: www.wwoof.org
Our family also had the luxury of being able to choose where to live. I wrote about how we came to our decision on my blog. Maybe some parts of our decision making process will be helpful to you: www.seekingnectar.blogspot.nl/2012/11/effervescence.html
We do a lot of extended visits in our family. We get several visitors each year. Our local friends joke that we're a little B&B. Sometimes local friends stay over too, even though some only live a 5 minute bike ride away :-)
My mom usually lives with us (or we live with her) for three months each year. Our guest bedroom is called 'Nanima's room' all year round. I think it gives the idea to the children that Nanima (grandmom) is not too far, even though she lives a 10 hour flight away. Our parents make sure that their grandchildren have their own space in each of their homes. Gianluca and Gisele feel very much at home at both their grandparents.
-=- what would you do in a situation like that? -=-
I would choose a place to live that would be interesting and vibrant for my children. If my children had big social needs, I would choose a place with other homeschooled children within a reasonable distance. I would make sure there was enough space for our loved ones to come visit and stay for extended periods of time. I would do my best to make sure my children could visit people that they love for extended periods of time.
Rippy
(Gianluca 8, Gisele 6)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would physically spend time in the places I'm interested in living. I would rent a place to stay (or camp or caravan) and imagine what our unschooling lives would be like in that community. I would think about the types of activities we would do, places we would visit, resources we would have access to, travel distances to family and friends, etc.
-=- i dont know if he can really tell what a difference for example the weather makes. he doesnt really understand (i think) that it is much warmer here than in germany and what this means for his life (he spends a good part of every day out and up to now he dislikes the cold very much).-=-
Could you go for an extended holiday to visit your parents this winter? It would give you and your son an idea of the types of activities he could do in the winter. You can also get an idea of how it would be like to visit your family for an extended period of time. Maybe their house is big enough to comfortably stay there for a few weeks at a time. If not, you can research short term rental possibilities in the area. If your son is thriving there, it might be a good option.
This concerns me though:
-=- unschooling since pregnancy with the first, now nearly four, the second son three months. -=-
You have been *learning* about unschooling since pregnancy, but you have not yet started unschooling. Unschooling is an alternative to school. A family starts unschooling once their eldest child reaches school age.
This distinction is important, especially in a place like Europe. When your children are very young, there are usually lots of other preschool children around. It's easier to fit in and not stand out. When the majority of your son's age mates start going to school, you may face some scrutiny and your son may miss having friends during school hours. I imagine a place like Germany could be isolating for unschoolers. Most children may start attending school before attendance is compulsory and German homeschooled children are a rarity.
Are your parents supportive of unschooling? Some grandparents feel very uncomfortable when their grandchild is the only child in their city not attending school (we have personal experience with this). That might be something to think about.
-=- my husband and i would like to move close to people we like, we want to eat together with, maybe even do projects together like farming, animals, music and so on. -=-
Have you heard of wwoofing (world wide opportunities on organic farms)? It is an exchange of volunteer labour for room and board on a working farm. You might find interesting opportunities with them, and sometimes wwoofers are homeschoolers themselves. Some places may have space for two families. It might be an inexpensive way to explore different areas to live: www.wwoof.org
Our family also had the luxury of being able to choose where to live. I wrote about how we came to our decision on my blog. Maybe some parts of our decision making process will be helpful to you: www.seekingnectar.blogspot.nl/2012/11/effervescence.html
We do a lot of extended visits in our family. We get several visitors each year. Our local friends joke that we're a little B&B. Sometimes local friends stay over too, even though some only live a 5 minute bike ride away :-)
My mom usually lives with us (or we live with her) for three months each year. Our guest bedroom is called 'Nanima's room' all year round. I think it gives the idea to the children that Nanima (grandmom) is not too far, even though she lives a 10 hour flight away. Our parents make sure that their grandchildren have their own space in each of their homes. Gianluca and Gisele feel very much at home at both their grandparents.
-=- what would you do in a situation like that? -=-
I would choose a place to live that would be interesting and vibrant for my children. If my children had big social needs, I would choose a place with other homeschooled children within a reasonable distance. I would make sure there was enough space for our loved ones to come visit and stay for extended periods of time. I would do my best to make sure my children could visit people that they love for extended periods of time.
Rippy
(Gianluca 8, Gisele 6)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tania
thank you, jen.
Am 26/dic/12 um 03:23 schrieb jencookies43:
school (in some years) or having to move again are all not things he
can really grasp. he wants to see his grandparents today and tomorrow.
and there it stops. which means i am only informing him, the decision
is ours. and that doesn't feel good. if i had the impression he does
actually have an understanding about the whole thing i would consider
his wishes more. and this doesn't feel good..
weeks and we spent every year a month with them. but it is not enough
for him. and because we are anyway moving, why not move in with them?
that's what he thinks.
thank you again, tania
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Am 26/dic/12 um 03:23 schrieb jencookies43:
> Having said all that, I would take your family on a vacation whereyes, this we do. it remains the problem that cold(er) weather and
> you and your husband would like to move to. Or view as much as you
> can on the web, in travel books, etc. talk about what it would be
> like. Ask him his concerns and joys. Be very familiar with him and
> any fears he may have. Explain about the cold weather and having to
> attend school. Let him experience the cold weather in a visit to a
> colder climate near you. Maybe he has changed his opinion on being
> cold. Talk about what school would be like in Germany. Inform him
> about every aspect that you two can think of together.
>
school (in some years) or having to move again are all not things he
can really grasp. he wants to see his grandparents today and tomorrow.
and there it stops. which means i am only informing him, the decision
is ours. and that doesn't feel good. if i had the impression he does
actually have an understanding about the whole thing i would consider
his wishes more. and this doesn't feel good..
> After our move to Arizona, my grandparents would always drive out tothe contact is pretty close, my mother visits us regularly for two
> pick my sister and I up so we could spend the whole summer with
> them. It was bliss for me. That maybe something you can present to
> him as well. That he can spend time with his grandpa for a few weeks
> here and there.
>
weeks and we spent every year a month with them. but it is not enough
for him. and because we are anyway moving, why not move in with them?
that's what he thinks.
thank you again, tania
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
tania <tania.loewe@...> wrote:
Moving is hard - it's stressful for adults as well as children. Rather than focusing on a perfect destination, it might be better to think about ways to make that difficult transition easier for everyone in the family. Plan on doing a lot of whatever you and your child find reassuring and comforting wherever you move.
---Meredith
> he wants to see his grandparents today and tomorrow.Can you step back from wanting to make a perfect decision? You can't predict the future. What you can do is make your best guess based on what you know now.
> and there it stops. which means i am only informing him, the decision
> is ours. and that doesn't feel good. if i had the impression he does
> actually have an understanding about the whole thing i would consider
> his wishes more. and this doesn't feel good..
Moving is hard - it's stressful for adults as well as children. Rather than focusing on a perfect destination, it might be better to think about ways to make that difficult transition easier for everyone in the family. Plan on doing a lot of whatever you and your child find reassuring and comforting wherever you move.
---Meredith