anita_loomis

My daughter is 4 1/2 and we recently started "de-fooding" which is the term I made up with for letting go of food controls and rethinking/refeeling family attitudes towards food and eating. It feels so much better than the habits I was sliding into as I tried to be a "good" mother and TEACH healthy eating. But I am also feeling a lot of nervousness as I watch my little one choose lemonheads, blowpops, salted ketchup and just eating salt out of a dish. She has just about weaned herself so I feel like we've lost the back-up nutrition of breastmilk. I'm also wondering if any of the choices might be related to that lost food. I'd be interested to hear others' experience around this.

Many thanks,
Anita Loomis-Yamaguchi

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I think one of the big mistakes parents made it to ask kids that were limited and controlled regarding food what they want to eat all the time and then only providing those to the kids.
I think those parents should say yes more.
Mom can I have another cupcake.
Yes honey.

Then mom can make another plate with some cut up apples and cheese , maybe some carrots and chicken and just place it on top of the coffee table or close to where the child is placing or in their kitchen table.

If you asked what she wanted to eat and she said ketchup then bring her the ketchup and also place  little monkey platter with other options she can take it or leave it.

 I hope you did not just tell her she could eat whatever she wanted. A kid that was limited and controlled will eat as much whatever was limited as they can.

I have friends whos kids come over and they will raid my candy and chocolate container! Because they are limited at home. They just cannot stop.My kids do not do it because they can eat whenever they want. My 6 year old will eat all the raspberries in the house! But who can blame her! I can do that too.
 
Alex Polikowsky

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Misa Knight

Anita,

I highly recommend "Overcoming Overeating" and "Kids, Carrots, and Candy".
They talk about what you call de-fooding. There's some stuff in there that
obviously won't be relevant to your situation, but there are things that
will be. They talk about the fears that you have and how you can overcome
them.

- Misa


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anita_loomis

Well, just as you've suggested, I started by switching primarily to monkey platters while saying yes when she makes a specific request (such as a bowl of salted ketchup). She also has free access to the candy that's in the house and she eats some and leaves some. I also prepare something for breakfast and supper and put some of that on a monkey platter. So I probably should give us more credit for the shifts that we have made.

But I have definitely made the mistake of asking "What would you like to eat?" or "Can I get you something to eat?" It comes from wanting to let her have more choices. But maybe it's too open-ended for a 4 year old?

I told her that she can decide what she eats. Really she was already doing that, I was just struggling with allowing her to do that. Right now, she proclaims loudly that she does not eat meat or vegetables. She's whittled herself down to just apples for fruit. Also announced that she doesn't eat cheese anymore, no more pancakes (except MacDonald's). I've tried many of the suggestions on Sandra Dodd's website for increasing protein but it all gets left on the platter or handed back to me to take off the platter. I keep switching things out and breathing, but I do feel my heart breaking and I can see that she is hungry. Maybe it is too much change too fast but I can't see going back to limiting (which was failing and making everyone miserable!).




--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> I think one of the big mistakes parents made it to ask kids that were limited and controlled regarding food what they want to eat all the time and then only providing those to the kids.
> I think those parents should say yes more.
> Mom can I have another cupcake.
> Yes honey.
>
> Then mom can make another plate with some cut up apples and cheese , maybe some carrots and chicken and just place it on top of the coffee table or close to where the child is placing or in their kitchen table.
>
> If you asked what she wanted to eat and she said ketchup then bring her the ketchup and also place  little monkey platter with other options she can take it or leave it.
>
>  I hope you did not just tell her she could eat whatever she wanted. A kid that was limited and controlled will eat as much whatever was limited as they can.
>
> I have friends whos kids come over and they will raid my candy and chocolate container! Because they are limited at home. They just cannot stop.My kids do not do it because they can eat whenever they want. My 6 year old will eat all the raspberries in the house! But who can blame her! I can do that too.
>  
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Alex Polikowsky

Why is she hungry? Get more if what she will eat!! Try different brands , keep bringing out different food and placing there with what you know she will eat.


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 20, 2012, at 4:40 PM, "anita_loomis" <anita_loomis@...> wrote:

> Well, just as you've suggested, I started by switching primarily to monkey platters while saying yes when she makes a specific request (such as a bowl of salted ketchup). She also has free access to the candy that's in the house and she eats some and leaves some. I also prepare something for breakfast and supper and put some of that on a monkey platter. So I probably should give us more credit for the shifts that we have made.
>
> But I have definitely made the mistake of asking "What would you like to eat?" or "Can I get you something to eat?" It comes from wanting to let her have more choices. But maybe it's too open-ended for a 4 year old?
>
> I told her that she can decide what she eats. Really she was already doing that, I was just struggling with allowing her to do that. Right now, she proclaims loudly that she does not eat meat or vegetables. She's whittled herself down to just apples for fruit. Also announced that she doesn't eat cheese anymore, no more pancakes (except MacDonald's). I've tried many of the suggestions on Sandra Dodd's website for increasing protein but it all gets left on the platter or handed back to me to take off the platter. I keep switching things out and breathing, but I do feel my heart breaking and I can see that she is hungry. Maybe it is too much change too fast but I can't see going back to limiting (which was failing and making everyone miserable!).
>
> --- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think one of the big mistakes parents made it to ask kids that were limited and controlled regarding food what they want to eat all the time and then only providing those to the kids.
> > I think those parents should say yes more.
> > Mom can I have another cupcake.
> > Yes honey.
> >
> > Then mom can make another plate with some cut up apples and cheese , maybe some carrots and chicken and just place it on top of the coffee table or close to where the child is placing or in their kitchen table.
> >
> > If you asked what she wanted to eat and she said ketchup then bring her the ketchup and also place little monkey platter with other options she can take it or leave it.
> >
> > I hope you did not just tell her she could eat whatever she wanted. A kid that was limited and controlled will eat as much whatever was limited as they can.
> >
> > I have friends whos kids come over and they will raid my candy and chocolate container! Because they are limited at home. They just cannot stop.My kids do not do it because they can eat whenever they want. My 6 year old will eat all the raspberries in the house! But who can blame her! I can do that too.
> >
> > Alex Polikowsky
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>


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Sandra Dodd

-=-But I have definitely made the mistake of asking "What would you like to eat?" or "Can I get you something to eat?" It comes from wanting to let her have more choices. But maybe it's too open-ended for a 4 year old?-=-

It's not much of a mistake. :-)

Sometimes she might know! Sometimes she might not. Ther's not one single "rule" for every meal.

What Alex wrote was this. You've missed a crucial detail.

-=-I think one of the big mistakes parents made it to ask kids that were limited
and controlled regarding food what they want to eat all the time and then only
providing those to the kids.-=-

All the time. Don't do it all the time.

Much of the appeal of food is the smell and the appearance. She's too young to know what's available and what could be interesting. Offer variety without pressure. When kids have options, can ask for more, can taste something and not "clean the plate," they will be closer to being able to feel what their bodies need.

-=-we recently started "de-fooding" which is the term I made up with for letting go of food controls -=-

This might seem off topic, bu the topic is unschooling.

You were never "fooding" before. She was not being "fooded." You are not, yourself, in recovery from fooding or foodation.

By separating food from other kinds of nurturing and learning and living in partnership, your own clarity, understanding and progress will be hampered.

If someone makes up a special term or uses jargon, it creates a barrier between simple understanding and clear thought.

If you look at your role as being your child's partner, that will be a change from the controls you were accustomed to, but it should apply to more than just what and when and where she eats. What's she playing with and how? Are you giving her choices aout what to wear, when and where to sleep? Can she sit next to you or not, as she wishes? Can she opt out of a hairdo you're wanting to do to her, or ask to do it later? I think the general question is whether you're moving toward caring more what she wants and helping her make choices. You'll both be learning about each other, about the world, and the more you relax, the more you'll see the benefits to learning and to your relationship.

It's not about food. Food is a small part of the fabric of a peaceful, supportive life.

Sandra




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Sandra Dodd

-=-I told her that she can decide what she eats. Really she was already doing
that, I was just struggling with allowing her to do that. Right now, she
proclaims loudly that she does not eat meat or vegetables. She's whittled
herself down to just apples for fruit. Also announced that she doesn't eat
cheese anymore, no more pancakes (except MacDonald's).-=-

You're still struggling.

She won't starve.

-= I've tried many of the suggestions on Sandra Dodd's website for increasing protein but it all gets left on the platter or handed back to me to take off the platter. I keep switching things out and breathing, but I do feel my heart breaking and I can see that she is hungry.-=-

Heartbreak it too strong.

There are children who are hungry whose parents have no food to give them. You're not in that situation, so don't look at it as heartbreak.
http://sandradodd.com/abundance


-=-Maybe it is too much change too fast but I can't see going back to limiting (which was failing and making everyone miserable!).-=-

It might have been too much too fast.

http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Read that in case there are other areas of your life you can ease more gradually through.

Don't think of the food. Don't think of it as "de-fooding." Think of it as being sweet and gentle and patient. The choices you made before didn't work out for you or her.

If you live where you can go to a buffet restaurant, that can be a good way for kids to try things like garbanzo beans or mushrooms, or to eat small quantities of things like strawberries without the mom needing to do a lot of preparation or food storage. She might like a salad bar, or a cafeteria with lots of choices. But make it light, and about being together, not about filling her up with food.

You can explore food the way kids explore costumes and hair styles and jewelry styles; breeds of dogs, cats horses; songs; shapes. You don't know whether a question will lead to a long conversation or whether she'll change the topic. Let food be that way, too. She might decide she loves pizza, or mac and cheese, and want that every day for months. Or she might try one taste and decide not to try it again for a year. Find a way to appreciate that, rather than to see it as a heartbreak situation.

Sandra




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Sue Solberg

<Anita wrote:
I told her that she can decide what she eats. Really she was already doing
that, I was just struggling with allowing her to do that. Right now, she
proclaims loudly that she does not eat meat or vegetables. She's whittled
herself down to just apples for fruit. Also announced that she doesn't eat
cheese anymore, no more pancakes (except MacDonald's). I've tried many of
the suggestions on Sandra Dodd's website for increasing protein but it all
gets left on the platter or handed back to me to take off the platter. I
keep switching things out and breathing, but I do feel my heart breaking
and I can see that she is hungry. Maybe it is too much change too fast but
I can't see going back to limiting (which was failing and making everyone
miserable!).>

My daughter, who is currently 5 and a half, will tell you the same thing,
at least about vegetables. NO! I *DON'T* eat vegetables! Tonight she got
upset at the thought that I might be eating the last of the turnips with my
guacamole. Sometimes she'll absent-mindedly eat a whole bowl of broccoli
if one is set beside her. She often likes roasted seaweed as a snack
(though she does share hers with the cat, who's quite fond of seaweed
himself), or just plain dehydated seaweed, or carrots, or red bell
peppers. She went through a period of eating mostly pasta and bread, so we
made all different shapes of pasta and tried many different bread recipes.
I made lots of cookies with almond flour. Actually, I still make quite a
few cookies with almond flour, but sometimes she'd rather have pickles or
olives. But I never backed her into a corner by making a big deal either
of her statements about food preferences or what she actually ate. I
offered her things to try, but never made a big deal about her liking or
disliking something. She still likes pasta and bread quite a lot. She'll
also try just about anything that doesn't have eyeballs.

Sue


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Bernadette Lynn

On 20 December 2012 20:22, anita_loomis <anita_loomis@...> wrote:

> But I am also feeling a lot of nervousness as I watch my little one choose
> lemonheads, blowpops, salted ketchup and just eating salt out of a dish.

====================================================



It sounds like she enjoys strongly-flavoured things, so maybe try finding
her strong-flavoured proteins to try. A couple of my children would eat
strong cheese, around that age, but not the milder kinds usually marketed
at children. Also things like grapefruit with yoghurt, and salami sticks.
My children also preferred raw vegetables to cooked: carrot sticks or
celery with hummous, and frozen peas served in little bowls like ice-cream

If she's eating a lot of salt she may not be getting enough through the
food you cook. When I lived in Saudi Arabia my sisters and I would eat salt
by the teaspoon when our mother wasn't looking, and still want the
highly-salted local cheese and pickles and olives we ate every day. Then
we'd come to England for the summer and find the idea of eating plain salt
unpleasant - we only liked the taste when we needed to eat it. I find I
sometimes need extra salt now if we have the central heating on a lot, or
during very hot summers. I used to cook mostly without salt because of all
the scare stories about how bad it is for you, but now I use a bit in
everything and happily add extra if people want it, because with hindsight
I'm firmly convinced that we'd find it too salty, if we were eating too
much.

Bernadette.


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Meredith

"anita_loomis" <anita_loomis@...> wrote:
>Right now, she proclaims loudly that she does not eat meat or vegetables. She's whittled herself down to just apples for fruit. Also announced that she doesn't eat cheese anymore, no more pancakes (except MacDonald's).
**************

She's 4 - it's pretty common for kids around that age to become very conservative about what they'll eat. It can help to make a list of what she will eat and use that as a guide for offering food - what do you want? is definitely too open ended. Some kids find a picture menu helps them decide.

When kids are conservative it helps to think of ever little variation as a whole new food. It also helps to think of drinks as food.

>>I can see that she is hungry

Will she eat home made desserts? Make lots of those, with the best ingredients you can - good quality fats in particular (whatever that means to you: butter or lard or coconut oil maybe). Little kids need a lot of fat for their growing bodies and brains and it makes food taste richer and be more filling. Adding things like ground nuts to baked goods is an easy way to provide extra nutrition and flavor in one fell swoop.

---Meredith

lalow

My son ate only plain pasta for a long time. Now he eats it with veggie cheese. Probably one meal a day. His only veggies were pickles, now he eats broccoli quiche, baked kale, jalapeños and banana peppers. His only protein was chicken, now he eats no meat but eats eggs, Black beans , refried beans and sun butter. He's almost 10, he lived through the plain pasta stage. I think the most important thing about it all is not making a big deal about it, we always left it open ended so he had a choice later on to like something, he wasn't defined by what he would or wouldn't eat. As he has gotten older he tries a lot more things, somethings he says no thanks to but he he is open if it smells ok.


>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

.<<< I think the most important thing about it all is not making a big deal about it, we always left it open ended so he had a choice later on to like something, he wasn't defined by what he would or wouldn't eat. As he has gotten older he tries a lot more things, somethings he says no thanks to but he he is open if it smells ok. >>>>

This is a great point!
Lots of parents will start calling their kids "picky eaters" or such. In front of the child.  Or they will say to the child " You do not like broccoli" . 
Make no comments. Even when the child says she does not like something. And when they child one day eats a tomato and likes it  just simple offer more and keep offering. 
My kids will eat something for a while , then they will not, then they will again. That is how it goes here. If they are not eating french fries after I make them twice I stop offering for a while. In weeks or months they will ask for it or I will just make it one day for them.

>

 
Alex Polikowsky

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Trista Teeter

--It can help to make a list of what she will eat and use that as a guide for offering food - what do you want? is definitely too open ended.
Some kids find a picture menu helps them decide.--

We made a list of all of the foods we regularly have available plus things my 4 and 6 year old love to eat (but don't always have on hand), then went online and found pictures of them all to print out and stick on the fridge.  It worked like a charm!  We put magnets on the backs so that we could move them--the left side of the fridge (our fridge was split in two--freezer on the left, fridge on the right, so there was a clear distinction) meant that we were out and was great for when I needed to make a quick grocery list.

My 6 year old didn't use it much--she can navigate around the kitchen pretty well and often likes to make her own platters.  But it was a godsend for my 4 year old who would ask for a monkey platter and when I asked if there's anything specific he wanted on it would say, "Put wha-ever you want."  After putting all of the visual choices up, he would sprint to the fridge and point out about 5 different things.  It was incredibly helpful!

After awhile, he didn't rely so much on the images.  He did keep tabs on them though--when we were out of oranges and I hadn't moved the image over, he would remind me.

Trista


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Nancy Noe

Holy crap, de-fooding? I have been learning all sorts of newer parenting
techniques lately like hand in hand parenting and ivebeen enjoying learning
them because they are so empowering for the child, helping them be more
"them."

But letting a child eat whatever?? I've had 4 kids and a medical psych
background and it is obvious to me that children are not aware that when
their bodies require protein, they will have low blood sugar. It will feel
like they "want sweets." But if they give in to sweets or carbs without
protein, they become sugar burners, which sets their bodies on a path
toward constant carb loading for energy. They will be hungry carb cravers
all day, with tendencies toward obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance,
behavior differences, and cancer.

If instead they are taught the truth as they become old enough to learn it,
that when we are truly hungry, protein, healthy fats ( from healthy
animals, or coconut oil or olive oil, avocados) will satisfy us. Carbs
should be from vegetables and fruits and eaten after the protein. And
limited! Sweets should be mostly good quality chocolate and ice cream and
should be sparing, not every day.

Then the child will be a fat burner for energy. This is the way toward
long term health, better for their whole lives. They will be able for
their lives to eat as much as they want, if they focus on healthy animal
proteins and fats. Every carb is sugar to the body. Carbs are not
enemies, but they need to not be more than 30-40% of their calories. Why
not teach the children the truth? And as they get older, allow them
leniency so that they can feel the difference between burning sugar and
burning fat? One feels terrible with hunger often and big cravings. The
other, if you're well fed, you might skip a meal sometime. Food then
satisfies.

Just wondering what good there is in letting a child who knows nothing
about nutrition lead his body's composition. We truly are what we eat. My
nine year old was allowed to eat all his allowed candy. He was miserably
behaved for that month, out of control. But I let hi do it.even he Amit's
it didn't make him feel very good.

I make my young kids start each meal with protein. Other things not happen
until they eat protein. Eggs, cheese, healthy meat. They learn its
importance as they grow, they internalize it, and choose to eat this way,
just as we do for ourselves, when they are 11 or 12.

Maybe I'm missing the point to de- fooding. But I am a little shocked.

Nancy

On Friday, December 21, 2012, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> **
>
>
> .<<< I think the most important thing about it all is not making a big
> deal about it, we always left it open ended so he had a choice later on to
> like something, he wasn't defined by what he would or wouldn't eat. As he
> has gotten older he tries a lot more things, somethings he says no thanks
> to but he he is open if it smells ok. >>>>
>
> This is a great point!
> Lots of parents will start calling their kids "picky eaters" or such. In
> front of the child. Or they will say to the child " You do not like
> broccoli" .
> Make no comments. Even when the child says she does not like something.
> And when they child one day eats a tomato and likes it just simple offer
> more and keep offering.
> My kids will eat something for a while , then they will not, then they
> will again. That is how it goes here. If they are not eating french fries
> after I make them twice I stop offering for a while. In weeks or months
> they will ask for it or I will just make it one day for them.
>
> >
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patricia Platt

Sandra wrote:

<<You can explore food the way kids explore costumes and hair styles
and jewelry styles; breeds of dogs, cats horses; songs; shapes. You
don't know whether a question will lead to a long conversation or
whether she'll change the topic. Let food be that way, too. She might
decide she loves pizza, or mac and cheese, and want that every day for
months. Or she might try one taste and decide not to try it again for
a year. Find a way to appreciate that, rather than to see it as a
heartbreak situation.>>

I really love the way she put that, and I would like to offer some
specific strategies for helping your child (maybe) branch out from her
few favorites:

1. Offer the new with the old. One thing you might try is to offer
something new and either similar or complementary (or just interesting
or delicious) along with the familiar, beloved, old favorite food
stuff. It's the approach those online businesses like Amazon use:
you suggest new stuff based on past purchases. Give her what she asks
for, of course, and, at the same time, offer something new that you
are genuinely excited about her trying (although I wouldn't recommend
making a big deal of it). For instance, put out several different
types of fresh berries or some cut-up tropical fruit along with the
artificial fruit-tasting candy she requested. Or modify a well-loved
dish somewhat, BUT only if you believe the addition/modification will
make the dish more delectable. (And if possible reserve an unchanged
portion of the old favorite in case the modified version is a bomb.)

2. Make it as yummy as possible. You may think this advice is a
no-brainer, but not for everyone! When I was a child, my mother hated
to shop and cook, and she would really just go through the motions of
providing "healthy" food -- but it was really disgusting and inedible
slop -- and then she complained that I just wanted to eat bread and
cheese instead of "my healthy vegetables." I remember once when I said
I was hungry, my mom instructed one of my older siblings to open a can
of gloppy, stringy cooked spinach and plop it into a bowl for me to
eat. Of course, I never touched it and would rather have starved. I
thought I hated spinach until I grew up and ate it fresh and raw and
yummy. It was like a totally different substance. So, it wasn't that I
hated veggies, I just hated the few, gross veggies my mother served.
Bottom line: kids are pickier eaters because they have a keener sense
of smell and taste, so it's important to offer the freshest, tastiest
fruits and veggies either raw or prepared in the most deletable way.

3. (Maybe) say something interesting about it. Often it's nice to
silently set out the new food on a monkey platter, or some other
nicely presented way, along with the familiar faves -- that silent
strategy worked well when my son was younger. But if my son (now 10)
seems receptive, I offer a light and casual explanation and
endorsement of the new food. For instance, I have said, as I set out
cut-up carrots, turnips, and ranch dressing: "Oh, I thought you might
like to try turnips with your carrots today. They are really yummy --
grown by Harve at the Farmer's Market!" [And, it turned out, he liked
the turnips. But it was not a big deal. He just said, casually: "Yea,
they're good" and proceeded to eat a big turnip (cutup) and then ask
if there was more.] Or: "I thought you might want to try baby spinach
on half of your ham and cheese sandwich, since you liked the sweet
lettuce we ate last summer." Sometimes the new
ingredients/preparations are hits with my son and sometimes they are
misses. Baby spinach leaves on the ham and cheese sandwich? Yes!
Tomato? Yuck! Other hits have included - ham bits or bacon or peas
added to mac and cheese, mushrooms with veggie-rice stir-fries, kiwi
fruit, olives, radishes. I have to compost/toss a bit of food that is
rejected, and I've learned to work with small samples so less goes to
waste.

4. Make it *look* good -- so she can "feast first with her eyes." I've
found that it helps to offer food that looks as delicious as it
tastes. A lot of the appeal of candy is the cute and shiny packaging,
and the bite-sized (and smaller) pieces. But whole foods can be
presented appealingly, too. Here's a chance to be creative!

5. Talk about food in a foodie way when your family eats together. Or
do blind taste tests. Can you detect the different tastes (sweet,
salty, bitter, sour, umami)? How would you describe the smells in a
dish/drink? Where did the food come from? What can you tell about
where it came from by the taste? My son and I figured out several
years ago that he can often tell organic from conventional apples by
taste.

6. Respect your child's temperament and personality. My son tends to
go through phases of liking a few food items at a time, in the same
way that he will delve deeply into one or two passionate interests at
a time. My son--who is resistant to change--likes to learn about his
food preferences gradually, from his safe zone, at a comfortable pace,
and I have learned how to respect that his tastes are expanding
through a slow process of evolution. Another child may want to try a
lot of different things all at once. Some people are more or less
adventuresome in certain settings/during certain times.

I haven't even touched on different food cultures, although I know a
family that tries to eat a cuisine from a different country each
month. In our family, food talk has led us to discussions of ecology,
religion, government, and on and on. And food can be a key to our
inner world, as well. I guess that's why people keep writing books
about food. :-)

Patricia

haydee deldenovese

Perhaps you can try to explore foods with the child. Make every meal
together, and let her do some pealing of the potatoes, cutting of the
carrots, and sample as you go. Try them raw, then cooked, then talk about
the difference in flavors when it changes concistency. Try to make homemade
pancakes instead of boxed ones, and she may preffer those instead of
mcdonalds. Try the salty ketchup with homemade fries, and talk about how
funny that she likes to salt the ketchup instead of the fries, make a game,
you salt your fries, and dip them in fresh ketchup and let her have a
taste, she may change her mind...
I honestly will say that I haven't let go all together my food
"restrictions" because of some fears, so I myself will be reading some of
the books suggested. I just don't buy snacks that aren't healthy (in my
opinion) or to sugary (in my opinion) to keep them in the house. If my
pantry is filled with healthy choices of sweets, they can have all they
want. When we are out and they want a candy, I try suggesting a chocolate
instead. I dnt say u can't have the hard candy, I say "ohh boy that
chocolate does look good" I tnk I will have one myself, and usually they go
for the "healthier (in my opinion) kind of sweet. They have had hard candy
though when they choose it still, but they will ask me "mom, which one is
better out of these ones?"
So, although I am not the perfect candidate to give you advice on how to
let her have anything she wants, I can advice you with perhaps inviting her
in the kitchen... it works very well for me. The kids looove to help, and
see what is happening, then they love and feel proud of what goes in their
tummy.
Good luck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

redknot20

My 9 year old daughter loves salt with tomatoes too, and has for a long time. Here are some of her favorite salty foods:

sliced tomatoes with lime juice and salt on top
fresh salsa with tortilla chips
canned tomato soup
white rice with soy sauce
salted/flavored nuts - pistachios, almonds, walnuts (store bought and homemade)
beef jerky flavored with soy sauce/salt/lemon juice etc
canned olives (together with carrots)

She also enjoys sweet foods like french toast, smoothies, ice cream, cookies, pie, juice, fruit.

Nina


--- In [email protected], "anita_loomis" <anita_loomis@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter is 4 1/2 and we recently started "de-fooding" which is the term I made up with for letting go of food controls and rethinking/refeeling family attitudes towards food and eating. It feels so much better than the habits I was sliding into as I tried to be a "good" mother and TEACH healthy eating. But I am also feeling a lot of nervousness as I watch my little one choose lemonheads, blowpops, salted ketchup and just eating salt out of a dish. She has just about weaned herself so I feel like we've lost the back-up nutrition of breastmilk. I'm also wondering if any of the choices might be related to that lost food. I'd be interested to hear others' experience around this.
>
> Many thanks,
> Anita Loomis-Yamaguchi
>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

 
<<<<Holy crap, de-fooding? >>>>>>

There is no de-fooding.  Sandra already made that point. She wrote:
"You were never "fooding" before. She was not being "fooded." You are not, yourself, in recovery from fooding or foodation. 
By separating food from other kinds of nurturing and learning and living in partnership, your own clarity, understanding and progress will be hampered. 

If someone makes up a special term or uses jargon, it creates a barrier between simple understanding and clear thought. "

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<<<<<<<<<<<<<I have been learning all sorts of newer parenting
techniques lately like hand in hand parenting and ivebeen enjoying learning
them because they are so empowering for the child, helping them be more
"them.">>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
So they can be " empowered" and be more "them" as long as they do what mom wants right???
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

<<<<<<But letting a child eat whatever?? >>>>>

See that is what happens when people join this group , read one thing they do not understand and just make assumptions.
Did you read the email and the group guidelines when you joined?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

<<<<<<<<<<<If instead they are taught the truth as they become old enough to learn it,...>>>>>>>>>>>>>

and you hold "the truth"  about eating and other people's eating??
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<<<<<<<<<< Carbs are not

enemies, but they need to not be more than 30-40% of their calories. >>>>>>>>>>>
So everyone needs to eat like that?  My husband would probably die of malnutrition. When someone burns as much calories as he does there is no way he could eat like this. He would need to eat so much volume of food he would get sick and puke. 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
<<<<<Just wondering what good there is in letting a child who knows nothing
about nutrition lead his body's composition. We truly are what we eat. My
nine year old was allowed to eat all his allowed candy. He was miserably
behaved for that month, out of control. But I let hi do it.even he Amit's
it didn't make him feel very good.>>>>>>>
He only ate until he was miserable because he is limited. I see it in kids that are. Mine are not and do not do that.
They ask for protein, I  am mindful of providing good protein and fats. They have been deciding what they eat and how much  since they were
born. They are healthy , thriving, strong, very tall and muscular children like their dad. 
Do you think kids that can chose what they eat will eat nothing but candy?


<<<<<<<<I make my young kids start each meal with protein. Other things not happen
until they eat protein. Eggs, cheese, healthy meat. They learn its
importance as they grow, they internalize it, and choose to eat this way,
just as we do for ourselves, when they are 11 or 12.>>>>>>>>>>>

Are they really learning what you are trying to teach???
Alex Polikowsky


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

> 4. Make it *look* good -- so she can "feast first with her eyes."

That was important to Mo when she was younger - not just attractive, but fun food. I'd add colors and shapes, wrap things up like tiny presents, make eating part of playing rather than a diversion from playing.

For some kids texture is a big issue, including the "visual texture" - whether a food looks smooth or mushy or whatever.

It's also important to make food convenient for kids - they're busy people and don't always want to take time to stop and eat. So small portions and things easily eaten by hand are helpful.

>>One thing you might try is to offer
> something new and either similar or complementary

Sometimes a different presentation of the same thing - like frozen fruit rather than raw, or fried bread rather than toast. To adults, that can seem silly - it's the same food, after all, but to a young child even a little variation is a big deal, a whole new way of looking at the world. Depending on the child, that could be exciting or intimidating or a blend of both.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-Holy crap, de-fooding?-=-

I let this through just before I went out for errands and had a hard time getting back home for accidents (not mine) and traffic). I need to apologize to the other moderators, because our habit is that if someone lets a difficult post through, she needs to be the one to respond to it. I'm sorry this sat so many hours, and I'm about to leave again for a potluck dinner, so I won't get to respond in detail.

I wouldn't have let a "Holy crap" post through if the person had just joined the discussion, but the author joined at the beginning of December, nearly three weeks ago, and should have caught the tone of the discussion by now.


-=-But letting a child eat whatever?? I've had 4 kids... -=-

If you haven't UNSCHOOLED four kids, it doesn't matter.

-=-If instead they are taught the truth-=

"The truth" about health and nutrition is constantly changing, and has been for generations. In my lifetime the official "best" and "right" has changed repeatedly.

If a mother intends to TEACH and if she thinks she knows "the truth," then unschooling, deschooling, and reading on this discussion could be a problem for her.

http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

-=-Just wondering what good there is in letting a child who knows nothing
about nutrition lead his body's composition.-=-

Holy crap! Are YOU the mom going to "lead his body's composition"?

A baby who knows nothing about nutrition knows when he wants to nurse and knows when he's done. A toddler who knows nothing about nutrition knows which foods don't smell good to him, and which do.

A ten or fifteen year old who has been told what to eat, when, where and how, who has been shamed about his preferences, punished for eating too little and scorned for eating too much has *NO IDEA* how to listen to his body's cues. None. He will eat what he's been forbidden to eat. He will watch the calendar until he can get away and make his own decisions (or will, as my husband did, eat his mother's little measured meals and then out for a burger or pizza).

http://sandradodd.com/food

That's the collection so some of the good parts of nearly 15 years worth of people's discussions about this in an unschooling context.

Everyone's first impression is wrong. The assumption that kids who can choose food from infancy will be eating a bunch of candy is wrong. It's the kids who were NOT allowed candy who will eat and eat it.

-=-I make my young kids start each meal with protein. Other things not happen
until they eat protein.-=-

#1, proof your posts.
#2, WHAT other things "not happen"?

-=-Maybe I'm missing the point to de- fooding. But I am a little shocked.-=-

Being shocked is fine. Not reading to the end of the thread before responding wasn't ideal, as you're new to the ideas.

Read this and follow every single link and read every link there before posting again.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/

Sandra
the list owner
who's going to a potluck party now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alex Polikowsky

Yes!! Fried bread with butter rocks! Pinterest has great ideas for "decorating" kids food! Also Bento boxes are too cute!
Alex Polikowsky

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2012, at 4:59 PM, "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> > 4. Make it *look* good -- so she can "feast first with her eyes."
>
> That was important to Mo when she was younger - not just attractive, but fun food. I'd add colors and shapes, wrap things up like tiny presents, make eating part of playing rather than a diversion from playing.
>
> For some kids texture is a big issue, including the "visual texture" - whether a food looks smooth or mushy or whatever.
>
> It's also important to make food convenient for kids - they're busy people and don't always want to take time to stop and eat. So small portions and things easily eaten by hand are helpful.
>
> >>One thing you might try is to offer
> > something new and either similar or complementary
>
> Sometimes a different presentation of the same thing - like frozen fruit rather than raw, or fried bread rather than toast. To adults, that can seem silly - it's the same food, after all, but to a young child even a little variation is a big deal, a whole new way of looking at the world. Depending on the child, that could be exciting or intimidating or a blend of both.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Nancy Noe <nancy.anne.noe@...> wrote:
>if they give in to sweets or carbs without
> protein, they become sugar burners, which sets their bodies on a path
> toward constant carb loading for energy. They will be hungry carb cravers
> all day, with tendencies toward obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance,
> behavior differences, and cancer.

Before you make big blanket statements about what you believe will happy, you might want to ask if that's what Actually happens in homes where kids have a big wide range of choices where food is concerned.

Just as schools can make hash of learning and lead to kids being resistant, disinterested, and unmotivated, "schooling" kids about food can result in kids who seem to have no understanding of their bodies' needs. That skews parents understanding and expectation by creating a self-fulfilling prophecy: "obviously" kids need to be taught and pushed and motivated and limited, based on their behavior when the teaching and limiting is removed. That's why experienced unschoolers recommend parents transition slowly, saying yes more rather than dumping all their old parenting ideas at once.

>Why not teach the children the truth?

The most fundamental principle of unschooling is that learning is personal. Teaching never, ever guarantees what another person will learn because one can never, ever control the perceptions and perspectives of another person. So teaching Anything is problematic, and truth? Talk about a can of worms... even narrowing "truth" down to "facts about nutrition" is problematic because different bodies have different needs and those needs change over time. All four members of my immediate family have different dietary needs, different preferences, sensitivities, etc. Where food is concerned, there's no overarching "truth" in my home.

Happily, it's not necessary to teach kids about food. It's possible to live with them, providing variety and information as they explore their interests and preferences. Kids are curious about the world! They want to know about bodies and what goes into them, what makes them energetic and strong. They want to have the strength and verve to pursue their interests to the fullest.

If you want more details about how that looks in real life, keep reading - there are many people on this list with years of experience with kids who've never been taught how to eat yet are very healthy indeed.

---Meredith

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Nancy Noe <nancy.anne.noe@...> wrote:
>
>
> Just wondering what good there is in letting a child who knows nothing
> about nutrition lead his body's composition.


When my children were growing up and eating anything they liked and not eating what they didn't like, of course I didn't trust a child who knows nothing about nutrition. I trusted the human body - of which my children each had one - to know what it needed.

I don't know where the idea comes from that this leads to bizarre eating behaviours and excessive ingestion of detrimental foodstuffs. Nothing of the sort happened in my experience.

My 'children', now 27 and 17, grew up healthy and have never, as it turned out, had much interest in foods customarily deemed unhealthy. A bowl of cornflakes at midnight wasn't unknown, but neither of them ever asked for ice cream for breakfast. Is that an urban myth? I wonder. Given the opportunity to eat all the candy they wanted, they ate very little. They could literally take it or leave it. They've grown up slim people too. Unlike their parents who both grew up in households with conventional attitudes to children and food. The "eat your greens" mentality, as I call it.

My mother, God bless her, who, by the way, raised her children on traditional home cooking, said to me as a boy, "If you read in the newspaper this week that tomatoes are good for you, you'll read in another newspaper next week that tomatoes are bad for you", and she was right. Nutritionists and dieticians can't even agree among themselves and that's a fact.

Bob

Sandra Dodd

-=-A bowl of cornflakes at midnight wasn't unknown, but neither of them ever asked for ice cream for breakfast. Is that an urban myth? I wonder. Given the opportunity to eat all the candy they wanted, they ate very little. They could literally take it or leave it. They've grown up slim people too. Unlike their parents who both grew up in households with conventional attitudes to children and food.-=-

Bob wrote that. I have exactly the same experience with my three now-grown children.

Mine didn't eat ice cream for breakfast. I have heard of some zealous-convert unschooling families who did that as part of a wild celebratory doing-the-opposite frenzy. Because at my house the kids chose or rejected foods from birth, there was no frenzy necessary.

-=-My mother, God bless her, who, by the way, raised her children on traditional home cooking, said to me as a boy, "If you read in the newspaper this week that tomatoes are good for you, you'll read in another newspaper next week that tomatoes are bad for you", and she was right. Nutritionists and dieticians can't even agree among themselves and that's a fact.-=-

Yes. Tomatoes are one of those things in hamburgers, and I'm a 59-year-old-American. In my lifetime, every part of a cheeseburger has been the good part, and the worst part.
Bread
beef
cheese
iceberg lettuce
tomato
pickles (vinegar)
condiment (salt/sugar)

Each was going to save us, or kill us, at various times.

Probably the best thing is to eat the whole thing, and not sort it into devils and angels, life and death. The sorting and labelling are worse for mind, soul and digestion than any single substance.

And this is quite the first-world problem, too. Anyone who has actually ever been hungry, when there wasn't even baloney or a hot dog or an egg in the refrigerator, at least had a refrigerator. There might be some people here reading who have lived in a war- or famine-zone, where any food was great food.

I think it can be bad for a person's soul to get all het up about the precise ingredients of something they're paying an hour's wages for, that can be obtained in a less pure form for a dollar. It's elitist and immoral. It's like showing off your $300 high heels to someone whose only pair of shoes have holes in the soles, on a snowy day.

Someone who frightens children about normal everyday foods is not a good, kindhearted person. It doesn't create peace.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Noe

I asked my 15 year old out of the blue yesterday about how he eats, and if
he feels he needs protein when he has actual hunger. He definitely does.
He is experimenting with new "foods" like energy drinks and things like
that.

If you were sort of calling me judgmental by calling me an outsider, new,
did I read the rules, please remember that you are saying that I am
"limiting" my child in a pejorative way. It's ok to disagree. It's ok to
feel as you do and as I do. As you see, I allow my kids foods that are
quite unhealthy ---- I let the one boy have all his junky halloween candy;
I let the other experiment with GMO corn syrup and caffeine, lol.

Nutrition, and not the kind taught by the government, is the basis for
health. It IS true. My number one job is to keep my kids well and whole.
I love unschooling, I love learning. I agree that forbidding and forcing
have no place in feeding kids, unless there is an overlying reason:
religious or medical. Let them enjoy the bounty of food, but I believe
they should understand how the body works.

My husband and one son are athletes too. My husband takes in most calories
as fat and is sooo skinny and strong. I am jealous. But it is true that
the carbohydrate need goes up for athletes.

Food is for pleasure, but not only. There is wisdom in building the body.
When we eat, we are literally building our bodies.

Sorry if I upset you but I just cannot agree with this way of thinking. I
respect you, though.

Nancy



On Friday, December 21, 2012, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
>
> <<<<Holy crap, de-fooding? >>>>>>
>
> There is no de-fooding. Sandra already made that point. She wrote:
> "You were never "fooding" before. She was not being "fooded." You are not,
> yourself, in recovery from fooding or foodation.
> By separating food from other kinds of nurturing and learning and living
> in partnership, your own clarity, understanding and progress will be
> hampered.
>
> If someone makes up a special term or uses jargon, it creates a barrier
> between simple understanding and clear thought. "
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<I have been learning all sorts of newer parenting
> techniques lately like hand in hand parenting and ivebeen enjoying learning
> them because they are so empowering for the child, helping them be more
> "them.">>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> So they can be " empowered" and be more "them" as long as they do what mom
> wants right???
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> <<<<<<But letting a child eat whatever?? >>>>>
>
> See that is what happens when people join this group , read one thing they
> do not understand and just make assumptions.
> Did you read the email and the group guidelines when you joined?
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<If instead they are taught the truth as they become old enough
> to learn it,...>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> and you hold "the truth" about eating and other people's eating??
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> <<<<<<<<<< Carbs are not
>
> enemies, but they need to not be more than 30-40% of their calories.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> So everyone needs to eat like that? My husband would probably die of
> malnutrition. When someone burns as much calories as he does there is no
> way he could eat like this. He would need to eat so much volume of food he
> would get sick and puke.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> <<<<<Just wondering what good there is in letting a child who knows nothing
> about nutrition lead his body's composition. We truly are what we eat. My
> nine year old was allowed to eat all his allowed candy. He was miserably
> behaved for that month, out of control. But I let hi do it.even he Amit's
> it didn't make him feel very good.>>>>>>>
> He only ate until he was miserable because he is limited. I see it in kids
> that are. Mine are not and do not do that.
> They ask for protein, I am mindful of providing good protein and fats.
> They have been deciding what they eat and how much since they were
> born. They are healthy , thriving, strong, very tall and muscular children
> like their dad.
> Do you think kids that can chose what they eat will eat nothing but candy?
>
> <<<<<<<<I make my young kids start each meal with protein. Other things
> not happen
> until they eat protein. Eggs, cheese, healthy meat. They learn its
> importance as they grow, they internalize it, and choose to eat this way,
> just as we do for ourselves, when they are 11 or 12.>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Are they really learning what you are trying to teach???
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-If you were sort of calling me judgmental by calling me an outsider, new,
did I read the rules, please remember that you are saying that I am
"limiting" my child in a pejorative way.-=-

I want EVERYONE to read the rules before posting.

You were judgmental because you were jugmental.
Because you are new to the goup, you're unaware of the extent of your judgmentalism. That's not a sin, it's inevitable. You should read more before you post, and be less strident, because you're new to the discussion and to the ideas.

-=-It's ok to disagree. It's ok to feel as you do and as I do.-=-

Again, you are taking the podium and the microphone and telling all of us, including the list owner and moderators, what is okay, and how this discussion should work.

It is okay for you to think anything you want to. I don't care if you spank your children, cheat on your husband and sacrifice goats!
It is not okay for you to come to this discussion and insult the principles of unschooling.

We don't need to read things we can read all over the internet. If you don't need to read about unschooling, then why are you here?

-=- As you see, I allow my kids foods that are
quite unhealthy ---- I let the one boy have all his junky halloween candy;
I let the other experiment with GMO corn syrup and caffeine, lol.-=-

The worst part of that quote is the "lol." It's not funny. You shouldn't think it's funny. You're belittling your children here.

When you refer to food as junk and as unhealthy, it's a problem. It's the same as telling your kids that some books are lofty and virtuous and other books are crap; that some movies are uplifting and some are garbage.

If you sort through the world for them, and label what YOU think is good and what YOU think is bad (perhaps you like opera but not country and western, or you love modern art and belittle folkart), then your children will not be able to make their own choices in a truly analytical way. They will be zig-zagging through the minefield of judgmental labels you've left all over the place. They will not choose a food for reasons of taste and the effect on them. They will be considering whether what they're eating will meet with your approval or not, and whether they want to worry about you or not.

You can be the center of your own universe, but each of them should be the center of his own.
You can't be the center of this discussion, nor even NEAR the center, until you've read and considered the ideas on my page and Joyce's. I suspect you haven't even read them, because you believe you already know The Truth.

-=-My number one job is to keep my kids well and whole.-=-

Some of your ideas will prevent their wholeness.

-=-Food is for pleasure, but not only. There is wisdom in building the body.
When we eat, we are literally building our bodies.-=-

You seem to be implying that we think food is for pleasure, that we are unwise, and that we are unaware.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Read the story there of the zen student.

-=-Sorry if I upset you but I just cannot agree with this way of thinking. I
respect you, though.-=-

I'm not upset. I've been doing this for many years. You don't know what "this way of thinking" is so to disagree within a single day is defensive ignorance.

You don't respect me. If you think that saying what I think is something you can't agree with, and to imagine that you've upset me shows a large glop of disdain.

If this is new, it shouldn't be:

Posts for this list need to fulfill at least one of these criteria:

helps lots of people understand unschooling
asks a question that actually needs an answer
requests help seeing different aspects of a situation
helps people have more peaceful and joyful lives (helps lots of people on the list)
ALL posts should be
honest
proofread
sincere
clear
If that is NOT new, you ran your eyes over it bu didn't understand it.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gwen Montoya

My always unschooled 6 year old has gone weeks having ice cream for breakfast. She likes it in a little bowl, so the serving size ends up being only a couple of spoonfuls.

I think she had ice cream at some point last week. Before that...probably a month or more since she has had any. I keep it at her eye level in the freezer. I buy the all natural kind (cream, sugar, etc).

She is one of those kids who is very selective about what she eats. Right now it is mostly pizza (frozen, cooked in the microwave) and bagels with cream cheese.

At one time she devoured apples, bananas, hard boiled eggs, and string cheese.

But we are going to eat dim sum (Chinese food) on Christmas Day and New Year's Day - so she'll be eating sticky rice and shu mai and bau because she loves them.

Gwen


>
> Mine didn't eat ice cream for breakfast. I have heard of some zealous-convert unschooling families who did that as part of a wild celebratory doing-the-opposite frenzy. Because at my house the kids chose or rejected foods from birth, there was no frenzy necessary.

Robert and Colleen

****My 'children', now 27 and 17, grew up healthy and have never, as it
turned out, had much interest in foods customarily deemed unhealthy. A bowl
of cornflakes at midnight wasn't unknown, but neither of them ever asked for
ice cream for breakfast. Is that an urban myth? I wonder.****



I have learned over the years that the only time my son (now 9) asks for ice
cream for breakfast is when he's coming down with a cold.



First, a couple days before he's obviously sick, he'll start asking for lots
of apple juice and orange juice to drink, while asking specifically *not* to
have milk (which he usually drinks every day).



Then he'll wake up one morning and ask for ice cream. And then I know to
make sure I have the tissues and vaporizer ready, because by that night
he'll say his throat hurts and he's not well.



I think it's pretty awesome - that he listens to what his body needs, and
that he's comfortable and confident enough to make his needs known without
worrying that we'll say "that's not a breakfast food!"



Even though this means we're an unschooling family that can say yes, our
child does sometimes have a bowl of ice cream at 8 AM :-)



Colleen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

>Let them enjoy the bounty of food, but I believe
> they should understand how the body works.

The way that's stated implies that "understanding" comes from outside of them - that they "need to be taught". It's an idea which comes from teaching rather than from seeing how people (including children) learn. Kids do want to know how their bodies work - although the specifics of what they want to know and how they prefer to learn it will vary a great deal.

It also implies that understanding how the body works is necessary for eating well and/or being healthy - and that's not true at all. If anything I've experienced exactly the opposite; people can get so tangled up with different "facts" about foods and health and eating as to create health problems.

> I asked my 15 year old out of the blue yesterday about how he eats, and if
> he feels he needs protein when he has actual hunger. He definitely does.

My daughter knows in a general sort of way that protein is one of the building blocks of living tissue - it's a subject which has come up a time or two. Most recently it came up when discussing whether werewolves could be vegetarians. Dogs can be vegetarians, but not cats because their bodies need a particular protein which is only available by eating meat. So we decided that while werewolves could be vegetarians, were-cats could not. Maybe my science was a little shaky, there, but you get the idea ;)

Some days she gets up and has something sweet right away. If she's too hungry she can't stomach anything really solid and a sweet will help kick start her appetite. Then she usually goes for something with protein, but she doesn't think of it that way. She likes something wants something like milk or cheese or an egg-taco, or french toast. Or cookies - George's home-made cookies are multi-grain and made with nut-meal, so that's a protein, if you want to be picky about it. She does that without fussing over the details of ingredients and carbs versus proteins versus whatever - she eats when she is hungry and if she's Too hungry, she knows she needs to do something about that. Not because she's been taught, but because she and I worked it out together way back when she was little and woke up grumpy, or played so hard she forgot to eat and got grumpy. We both learned, together, what helped her get her needs met.

She's 11, by the way, and in the next few days we'll be getting her a new trampoline. She spends so much time on hers she has worn it out - I didn't know that could happen. So I suppose you could say she's athletic.

---Meredith