Conflicting wants in the family...
jo kirby
Hi All, I am hoping that some of you might have some advice on how to handle this:
My (only) son is 5 (6 in January). He has never been to school. He and I have a very close and loving relationship. With his Dad he is much more on-off, I mean, he is very loving to him at times, and they often have a lot of fun together, but then he is often (pretty much daily) rude and disrespectful and mildly aggressive to him. Today my husband (Jay) described it as being like living with a teenager sticking two fingers up at him.
Jay does get some aspects of unschooling, but I don't think he is completely behind it. We are going through a slow process of me trying to explain and show him various unschooling ideas and practices, which he is very open too. He feels it is very far from the norm and I'm pretty sure that privately he believes the unschooling path is what has led (or maybe allowed) our son to be so contrary. This week he said he thought Sam was so high need because of unschooling, and I can see why he thinks that: we have allowed Sam to have and to express his needs and likes/dislikes, whereas if we had parented more traditionally, they might well have been squashed by now.
We have always asked Sam to speak nicely to Jay (and others), and explained when things are rude or might come across as rude. I think his behaviour is 'worse' when things don't suit him for some reason, which is often when I'm working (two days a week), and he's with his Dad, or when his Dad comes home/in the room and tries to talk with me or even just be around us.
Here's the issue I mainly wanted to ask about: They usually can get along ok if they stay at home (which is what Sam wants to do almost always), but Jay wants to go out sometimes. They have a fortnightly group which is very small and includes Sam's best friend and another very good friend, but still Sam will usually say he doesn't want to go. For Jay, stopping going is not an option he's happy with. He says the group is the only thing keeping his faith in homeschooling, he likes the social contact and support for himself (he's the extrovert) and he feels that it's a dangerous route to "shut yourself away more and more".
I am stuck with what to do to help them here. This morning I told Sam that homeschooling needs to work for everyone in the family, but I don't know how he hears that, maybe at best as yada yada yada..., at worst as me threatening to send him to school(!). In retrospect I don't think that was a useful thing to say at all (but it was a better choice than getting cross!). In general Sam does not seem very receptive to compromise or talking things through as a family and making a plan, I think he just sees that as annoying and him not getting what he wants (not sure if that is an age thing or a personality thing).
This morning I ended up saying to Jay that if in his mind it was not an option to not go to the group (an option Sam would probably choose if he was given the choice), that he (Jay) should be clear with Sam that they were going, and not get into an argument or battle of wills about it. He told Sam they would just go for a couple of hours. They went, but Sam was not really happy and he was not getting what he wanted. In fact none of us were happy: Sam because he didn't want to go, Jay because he was finding it all so difficult and frustrating, and me because I was finding it all so difficult and distressing (not to mention distracting from my work which I'm supposed to be doing!), and it left me feeling bad, down and somewhat lost.
Any suggestions GREATLY received!
Jo
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My (only) son is 5 (6 in January). He has never been to school. He and I have a very close and loving relationship. With his Dad he is much more on-off, I mean, he is very loving to him at times, and they often have a lot of fun together, but then he is often (pretty much daily) rude and disrespectful and mildly aggressive to him. Today my husband (Jay) described it as being like living with a teenager sticking two fingers up at him.
Jay does get some aspects of unschooling, but I don't think he is completely behind it. We are going through a slow process of me trying to explain and show him various unschooling ideas and practices, which he is very open too. He feels it is very far from the norm and I'm pretty sure that privately he believes the unschooling path is what has led (or maybe allowed) our son to be so contrary. This week he said he thought Sam was so high need because of unschooling, and I can see why he thinks that: we have allowed Sam to have and to express his needs and likes/dislikes, whereas if we had parented more traditionally, they might well have been squashed by now.
We have always asked Sam to speak nicely to Jay (and others), and explained when things are rude or might come across as rude. I think his behaviour is 'worse' when things don't suit him for some reason, which is often when I'm working (two days a week), and he's with his Dad, or when his Dad comes home/in the room and tries to talk with me or even just be around us.
Here's the issue I mainly wanted to ask about: They usually can get along ok if they stay at home (which is what Sam wants to do almost always), but Jay wants to go out sometimes. They have a fortnightly group which is very small and includes Sam's best friend and another very good friend, but still Sam will usually say he doesn't want to go. For Jay, stopping going is not an option he's happy with. He says the group is the only thing keeping his faith in homeschooling, he likes the social contact and support for himself (he's the extrovert) and he feels that it's a dangerous route to "shut yourself away more and more".
I am stuck with what to do to help them here. This morning I told Sam that homeschooling needs to work for everyone in the family, but I don't know how he hears that, maybe at best as yada yada yada..., at worst as me threatening to send him to school(!). In retrospect I don't think that was a useful thing to say at all (but it was a better choice than getting cross!). In general Sam does not seem very receptive to compromise or talking things through as a family and making a plan, I think he just sees that as annoying and him not getting what he wants (not sure if that is an age thing or a personality thing).
This morning I ended up saying to Jay that if in his mind it was not an option to not go to the group (an option Sam would probably choose if he was given the choice), that he (Jay) should be clear with Sam that they were going, and not get into an argument or battle of wills about it. He told Sam they would just go for a couple of hours. They went, but Sam was not really happy and he was not getting what he wanted. In fact none of us were happy: Sam because he didn't want to go, Jay because he was finding it all so difficult and frustrating, and me because I was finding it all so difficult and distressing (not to mention distracting from my work which I'm supposed to be doing!), and it left me feeling bad, down and somewhat lost.
Any suggestions GREATLY received!
Jo
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:21 AM, jo kirby wrote:
Is there something else they can do together?
As an introvert who was pushed to be extroverted everyday in school -- and introverts everywhere will back me up on this! -- it did not help me be more social. It made it worse. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me. It just meant for 9 months of the years from 6-22 I spent 6 hours a day in a stressful environment.
My daughter is also an introvert. As an unschooled child she got to choose when to be with people and when to stay home. Unlike me she rarely was in situations where she needed to be social when she preferred to be home but because the situations where she didn't get her preference were so rare, because she had the freedom to choose most of the time, it was much easier for her to put up with being social on those occasions.
As a 21 year old, my daughter has no problems going to work each day even though the office is full of people :-) She worked at Starbucks and a music store and had a grand time selling. But it wasn't because she was pushed to be social. It was because who she was was honored. She doesn't feel wrong for being an introvert. She's developed the skills in her own time to be able to be social when she needs and to take the time to retreat to recharge without feeling like there's something wrong with her.
Right now your son may be going through a cocoon stage where he needs more down time than usual to recharge. Forcing him to be social won't "fix" it. There's nothing to fix! Forcing him, though, can make it worse. It can make him cling to home longer than he normally would because it's being forcefully pulled from him.
If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/
My husband read the book and said it should be required reading for everyone :-) He totally gets himself now :-)
Joyce
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> We have always asked Sam to speak nicely to Jay (and others)Rather than telling him, help him be nice, be thoughtful. Work together to do nice things for his Dad. Making something Dad likes especially. Bringing him a cup of coffee. Peeling and orange and arranging it nicely on a plate. Think about things that will make his Dad smile.
> I'm pretty sure that privately he believes the unschooling path isI wouldn't attach the solution of this problem to him understanding unschooling. Do keep sharing information! But don't put an additional agenda on him understanding. Let him grow an understanding in his own time. Tackle the problem of their time together separately.
> what has led (or maybe allowed) our son to be so contrary.
Is there something else they can do together?
> he likes the social contact and support for himself (he's the extrovert)The best, most helpful thing extroverts can understand about introverts is that introversion is part of who people are and not something that needs fixed!
> and he feels that it's a dangerous route to "shut yourself away more and more".
As an introvert who was pushed to be extroverted everyday in school -- and introverts everywhere will back me up on this! -- it did not help me be more social. It made it worse. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me. It just meant for 9 months of the years from 6-22 I spent 6 hours a day in a stressful environment.
My daughter is also an introvert. As an unschooled child she got to choose when to be with people and when to stay home. Unlike me she rarely was in situations where she needed to be social when she preferred to be home but because the situations where she didn't get her preference were so rare, because she had the freedom to choose most of the time, it was much easier for her to put up with being social on those occasions.
As a 21 year old, my daughter has no problems going to work each day even though the office is full of people :-) She worked at Starbucks and a music store and had a grand time selling. But it wasn't because she was pushed to be social. It was because who she was was honored. She doesn't feel wrong for being an introvert. She's developed the skills in her own time to be able to be social when she needs and to take the time to retreat to recharge without feeling like there's something wrong with her.
Right now your son may be going through a cocoon stage where he needs more down time than usual to recharge. Forcing him to be social won't "fix" it. There's nothing to fix! Forcing him, though, can make it worse. It can make him cling to home longer than he normally would because it's being forcefully pulled from him.
If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/
My husband read the book and said it should be required reading for everyone :-) He totally gets himself now :-)
Joyce
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Jo can you invite the group over? That maybe better for some kids. That way your husband is happy to have people to talk too and your son is home and feeling good.
Maybe a game night for the adults and kids at your house once a month or every two weeks?
Alex Polikowsky
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Maybe a game night for the adults and kids at your house once a month or every two weeks?
Alex Polikowsky
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Sandra Dodd
Joyce wrote:
If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/
=============
That book is great. If you can't get through the whole thing, at least read the last chapter. Or read the end and then read the rest of it.
You can listen to a reading of it, if that would make it easier. Maybe your husband would listen to it in the car.
http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B006TIKUN4
Another good resource for undertanding unschooling itself is Pam Laricchia's book. It's not long and it's not strident. (My book is long and sometimes strident, and sometimes sweet and comforting, but Pam's might be better for a reluctant dad.)
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca
I use that link instead of the one directly to the book, because I just love Pam Laricchia's home page art. She did it herself.
If your husband's "want" that's conflicting with your son's is the "want" to participate in children's gatherings, it might help to see yourselves as facilitators of your son's learning and comfort. Home ed gatherings are NOT a necessary element of learning.
On the other hand, if you ever told your son he could do whatever he watned to and it didn't matter what anyone else thought, you might have done some damage there to your own ability to say "This is important because..." If your husband insists that the weekly gathering is important *to your husband,* and that he can't compromise on that, then you might persuade your son to go for his dad's sake. The dad will see other families there, and that might help him be calmer about home-based learning. It would be better if your husband would relax about it, but if he won't, or he can't, then telling your son that it's the alternative to school might not be at all dishonest, nor undue pressure. The whole family, both parents, need to agree to home education, and if his dad balks, it might be over. You can explain that gently, maybe.
Sandra
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If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/
=============
That book is great. If you can't get through the whole thing, at least read the last chapter. Or read the end and then read the rest of it.
You can listen to a reading of it, if that would make it easier. Maybe your husband would listen to it in the car.
http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B006TIKUN4
Another good resource for undertanding unschooling itself is Pam Laricchia's book. It's not long and it's not strident. (My book is long and sometimes strident, and sometimes sweet and comforting, but Pam's might be better for a reluctant dad.)
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca
I use that link instead of the one directly to the book, because I just love Pam Laricchia's home page art. She did it herself.
If your husband's "want" that's conflicting with your son's is the "want" to participate in children's gatherings, it might help to see yourselves as facilitators of your son's learning and comfort. Home ed gatherings are NOT a necessary element of learning.
On the other hand, if you ever told your son he could do whatever he watned to and it didn't matter what anyone else thought, you might have done some damage there to your own ability to say "This is important because..." If your husband insists that the weekly gathering is important *to your husband,* and that he can't compromise on that, then you might persuade your son to go for his dad's sake. The dad will see other families there, and that might help him be calmer about home-based learning. It would be better if your husband would relax about it, but if he won't, or he can't, then telling your son that it's the alternative to school might not be at all dishonest, nor undue pressure. The whole family, both parents, need to agree to home education, and if his dad balks, it might be over. You can explain that gently, maybe.
Sandra
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casouthworth
>>>>>>With his Dad he is much more on-off, I mean, he is very loving to him at times, and they often have a lot of fun together, but then he is often (pretty much daily) rude and disrespectful and mildly aggressive to him. Today my husband (Jay) described it as being like living with a teenager sticking two fingers up at him.<<<<<<How do you treat your husband? Don't answer that but think about it. When my girls were being less than wonderful to their dad, I started out by trying to talk to them about it but got nowhere fast. I think it was something somebody on one of the lists said or posted but I started looking at how I was treating my husband. I realized that I wasn't being mean to him but I wasn't building him up either. I wasn't openly expressing my gratitude to him. I wasn't openly proclaiming how much I love him and how lucky I am to have him as my partner. So, I started doing that. I would look for awesome things about my husband and I would share them with the girls. When it is time for dad to come home, I get excited and let the girls know that dad is coming home. I try to greet him with a kiss and a smile.
The changes did not happen immediately but over time the girls have become a lot more loving towards dad. The minute he comes in the back door in the evenings, he is greeted with "Welcome home daddy." A couple of the girls will run up to him and give him great big hugs. They still have their moments of being rude and disrespectful to dad but it is a lot less noticeable and he doesn't seem to mind as much because we are doing a better job of making him feel loved. Not that long ago, my husband was in a really good mood so I asked him about it. He said that he felt really good because "I actually feel loved." Whoa, that was huge because it made me realize that even though I wasn't being mean, I was not doing much to help him feel loved by me or the kids.
>>>>>>Jay does get some aspects of unschooling, but I don't think he is completely behind it.<<<<<<Why would anybody get behind something that pits the parent's needs against the child's needs? Why would anybody get behind something that seems to create selfish and demanding children? Why would anybody get behind something that requires them to accept rudeness on a regular basis? Why would somebody get behind something that prevents him from being able to do something that he enjoys? Why would anybody get behind something that seems to routinely dismiss his concerns? If your husband feels all of those things, or even some of them, then I think he would be remiss to even think of getting behind unschooling or supporting it.
>>>>>>We are going through a slow process of me trying to explain and show him various unschooling ideas and practices, which he is very open too.<<<<<<Stop explaining and start showing. You are not being your husband's partner. You are being his teacher. I know that I have to be very careful because it is really easy to slip into that pattern. I have quit making things about unschooling. In all honesty, I don't really care about unschooling as much as I care about making sure that each and every member of my family is happy and feels loved. If that means that I resort to something that might not fit within unschooling, so be it. My family is more important than unschooling will ever be.
>>>>>>This week he said he thought Sam was so high need because of unschooling, and I can see why he thinks that: we have allowed Sam to have and to express his needs and likes/dislikes, whereas if we had parented more traditionally, they might well have been squashed by now.<<<<<<It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. I am not a big fan of traditional parenting but it doesn't have to be demonized. There have been times that I have resorted to things that might be considered traditional simply because it is what created the most peace. I am not parenting my children alone. My husband is a big part of our lives and should have just as much say about how our kids are raised as I do. If I am not giving him as much say, then I am not being his partner.
My parenting tool box is full of all sorts of ideas from all sorts of places. I do not limit myself to unschooling ideas because I think that goes against unschooling ideas. : ) How can I make informed choices and evaluate individual situations if I am limiting myself to one set of ideas only? The focus of this list is radical unschooling but the focus of my life is not. People can parent in all sorts of different ways without squashing a child's ability to express him/herself.
>>>>I think his behaviour is 'worse' when things don't suit him for some reason, which is often when I'm working (two days a week), and he's with his Dad, or when his Dad comes home/in the room and tries to talk with me or even just be around us. <<<<<<Your son is 5. I have a 5 year old and she is sometimes contrary. Don't make this about dad or unschoooling. Some of your child's behavior could be normal 5 year old behavior. That doesn't make it okay but perhaps it might help you to reframe things. One of the things that I have figured out is that part of the reason that my girls reject dad is that they don't like him going to work. They want him as much as they want me. In thinking about the situation and paying attention to the little things that the girls have said, some of the rejection of dad is a result of them not wanting to get too attached because they know that he is going to get up and go to work tomorrow or Monday or whenever.
>>>>>He says the group is the only thing keeping his faith in homeschooling, he likes the social contact and support for himself (he's the extrovert) and he feels that it's a dangerous route to "shut yourself away more and more". <<<<<<Joyce recommended going somewhere else or doing something else. Something to think about is whether or not you could substitute some kind of class or other activity for the homeschool group. As a lifelong introvert, I do not do well in groups where I am expected to socialize and talk about random stuff with random people. My girls don't care for it either. We all seem to do much better in situations where there is some kind of goal that we can focus on without having to actually talk and socialize. My 8 year old loves choir and goes to choir practice weekly. It works because she can focus on singing and paying attention to the choir director without having to figure out what to do next or deal with any unpredictability. My husband chit chats with the other parents, my daughter is doing something she loves, and everybody is happy.
>>>>>In general Sam does not seem very receptive to compromise or talking things through as a family and making a plan, I think he just sees that as annoying and him not getting what he wants (not sure if that is an age thing or a personality thing).<<<<<<He is 5 and it seems like you are talking about him as though he were a teenager. I have a 5 year old and it can sometimes be a bit deceptive because on one hand she seems really grown up but on the other, she is still so young and there are lots of things that she simply does not grasp. I have to be very careful not to expect too much from her. Five year olds are very self-centered and talking about things as a family and making plans is a bit much for my 5 year old. I am on my third 5 year old and still have one more to go. I have found 5 to be an age of lots of transitions because it seems that there is a huge cognitive growth as well as physical growth. At 5, toddlerhood is pretty much gone. People treat 5 year olds differently than they treat toddlers and babies and that can be rough. With each of my girls, I have seen the shift in the way people treat kids of different ages. If you know that your husband wants to go, don't try to compromise and don't talk things through as a family. You and your husband can discuss what needs to be done and then let your son know. Make it fun. Make it enjoyable. Don't present it negatively. Talk about all of the fun and wonderful things about what is going to be done. Throw in a fun activity like stopping for ice cream on the way home.
Connie
Sandra Dodd
-=-Why would anybody get behind something that pits the parent's needs against the child's needs? Why would anybody get behind something that seems to create selfish and demanding children? Why would anybody get behind something that requires them to accept rudeness on a regular basis? Why would somebody get behind something that prevents him from being able to do something that he enjoys? Why would anybody get behind something that seems to routinely dismiss his concerns? If your husband feels all of those things, or even some of them, then I think he would be remiss to even think of getting behind unschooling or supporting it. -=-
Connie wrote that. It's pretty nice. :-)
-=- If you know that your husband wants to go, don't try to compromise and don't talk things through as a family. You and your husband can discuss what needs to be done and then let your son know. Make it fun. Make it enjoyable. Don't present it negatively. Talk about all of the fun and wonderful things about what is going to be done. Throw in a fun activity like stopping for ice cream on the way home.
-=-
I agree with this. Don't make a situation where there is a winner and a loser. Make it good for both of them, all three of you. Don't tell your son he has the veto about every decision you or your husband make. And if you've done that, and he's vetoing a bunch of stuff, I'm guessing the relationships need sweetening up.
When a parent has misunderstood something or made a big mistake (like telling a child that he doesn't have to do what his dad wants him to do), sometimes the best thing to do is say "I'm sorry; I made a mistake. We need to change things before they get worse. It was my fault. Sorry." And then change things in a new, nice, exciting, sweet, productive, sensible way.
Sandra
Sandra
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Connie wrote that. It's pretty nice. :-)
-=- If you know that your husband wants to go, don't try to compromise and don't talk things through as a family. You and your husband can discuss what needs to be done and then let your son know. Make it fun. Make it enjoyable. Don't present it negatively. Talk about all of the fun and wonderful things about what is going to be done. Throw in a fun activity like stopping for ice cream on the way home.
-=-
I agree with this. Don't make a situation where there is a winner and a loser. Make it good for both of them, all three of you. Don't tell your son he has the veto about every decision you or your husband make. And if you've done that, and he's vetoing a bunch of stuff, I'm guessing the relationships need sweetening up.
When a parent has misunderstood something or made a big mistake (like telling a child that he doesn't have to do what his dad wants him to do), sometimes the best thing to do is say "I'm sorry; I made a mistake. We need to change things before they get worse. It was my fault. Sorry." And then change things in a new, nice, exciting, sweet, productive, sensible way.
Sandra
Sandra
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casouthworth
>>>>>>When a parent has misunderstood something or made a big mistake (like telling a child that he doesn't have to do what his dad wants him to do), sometimes the best thing to do is say "I'm sorry; I made a mistake. We need to change things before they get worse. It was my fault. Sorry." And then change things in a new, nice, exciting, sweet, productive, sensible way.<<<<<Yesterday, we did this very thing. Before going to Grandma's to eat Thanksgiving dinner. The girls talked about wanting to do something exciting and fun after we left Grandma's. We talked about the different possibilities and mentioned some places we could go and things we could do. By the time we left Grandma's my husband and our oldest wasn't feeling well and the younger two were too tired to try to do anything but go home and chill. Our 8 year old was really disappointed. We apologized but made it clear that we would not be going out as a family.
After the little ones rested a bit, they wanted to do something too. My husband and I didn't feel like attempting a family outing so I brainstormed some things to do. My husband and our 8 year old made a cheesecake together. Then I decided that I would try to make fudge because grandma didn't have any and that is the one thing that the girls wanted. I didn't have marshmallow cream and I only had half a bag of chocolate chips. Plus, I have never ever attempted to make fudge before. I got busy and found a recipe for fudge that only required chocolate chips, peanut butter, and sweetened condensed milk. We improvised and used a candy bar and some Hershey's kisses to make up for the fact that we only had half a bag of chocolate chips. The girls had a blast opening the kisses and putting them in the bowl. They also had fun watching the chocolate and peanut butter melt in the microwave. When it was all said and done, we had some yummy fudge and the girls were happy. It was a very sweet and productive evening even though there was some disappointment and a change of plans that didn't include discussion with the girls. Now the girls are excited to get more ingredients so we can try out different variations of easy to make fudge.
Connie
jo kirby
Thank you all for your very thoughtful and wise replies. And for your TIME. I really appreciate it.
Joyce said: "Rather than telling him, help him be nice, be thoughtful" and Connie said: " I started looking at how I was treating my husband. I realized that I wasn't being mean to him but I wasn't building him up either. I wasn't openly expressing my gratitude to him. I wasn't openly proclaiming how much I love him and how lucky I am to have him as my partner."
This has already made a difference. Like you used to Connie, I often forget in the hub-bub of the week to stop and take a moment to let Jay know how much he is loved and appreciated, or to offer him a cup of tea or a foot massage. I have now made a list for myself of little things I can do for him to show him how much I care. I have been thinking of things I can do whilst Sam is around (as that's pretty much always), that won't be in-your-face for Sam or really bother him that much, because if he feels he's not getting what he wants (usually attention) he will interrupt us anyway. Just words I can say, or snacks I can make, or a foot rub while Jay reads to Sam - that sort of thing. It could be a coincidence but I don't think so - today Sam was SO much nicer to Jay! He came and told me he wanted some time to just chill out together (I have been working all day and I assumed he was meaning just him and I, because we hadn't had much time together), but
instead he said no, he meant all three of us chilling out together! That is pretty much a first! So we played games all evening and now they are asleep together upstairs.
Sandra said "Don't tell your son he has the veto about every decision you or your husband make. And if you've done that, and he's vetoing a bunch of stuff, I'm guessing the relationships need sweetening up." We haven't done that, but we have told Sam on more than one occasion that his opinion counts and we will always try to take his needs or wishes into account. I can see how that may well have led him to step up and have his say on anything that doesn't quite suit him ;-) Hopefully the sweetening up of the relationships will help with that a bit.
Another thing which I understood, which is incredibly useful, and feels like a big relief - is to stop mixing up behaviours and issues and stuff that's going on for us as a family, with unschooling or whatever ideas I am trying to use. I am not overly concerned with being 'unschoolers', but I do use a lot of the tools and ideas that this list offers, and I did go to the Unschooling conference organised by Julie Daniel this year in the UK, and sometimes Jay will say "Why are we doing this xxx?" or "Where did you get that idea from?" and I refer to unschooling. Then, next time something is not going well, rather than looking at it for what it is (something which just as easily could be happening or could be even worse if we were more traditional or if Sam were in school) we both fall into a trap of looking at it as some kind of failure. A failure of our expectations?, our hopes? A failure of our choices?, our lifestyle? our parenting and educational
decisions?. A failure of ours, but mainly mine. My failure to have understood things well, since it's me who brings the ideas and does all the reading, my failure to have known what to do, my failure to have got things 'right', my failure to parent well :-( Then I/we really can get bogged down - our child doing xxx is all because we did or didn't do yyy. We messed things up, we somehow got it wrong - again. But feeling like a failure is our own baggage and is NOT good for unschooling! Something important has clicked - the whole set-up does not help me be my child's partner! I can and should be forward thinking and attentive, but when my child is upset despite my care, the tools are there to help, not to guarantee that nothing difficult will ever occur in the first place (people would have to have no personalities for that to happen!).
"If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
Another good resource for undertanding unschooling itself is Pam Laricchia's book. It's not long and it's not strident. (My book is long and sometimes strident, and sometimes sweet and comforting, but Pam's might be better for a reluctant dad.)" After seeing that talk earlier this year I understood myself SO much better. So many things fell into place. I am eagerly waiting for her book to come out here - it's out in January, but I think I'm going to pre-order it. I did buy another book though (The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Lany), and I asked Jay to read it. He said he had a much better understanding of me afterwards, and it has helped our relationship since. I don't think he is ready to acknowledge that Sam also seems to be an introvert though! We have both also read Pam's book, but I haven't given him yours yet Sandra ;-)
"He is 5 and it seems like you are talking about him as though he were a teenager." I suspected that were the case! In some ways he seems so much older, and he's my one and only, so I don't have previous experience! I have to be very careful not to expect too much, more than he is capable of. I think trust comes in here - if I trust he is doing his best - he will show me when something is beyond him. Then I can focus on helping him and adjusting my own expectations.
Thank you again, sincerely.
Jo
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Joyce said: "Rather than telling him, help him be nice, be thoughtful" and Connie said: " I started looking at how I was treating my husband. I realized that I wasn't being mean to him but I wasn't building him up either. I wasn't openly expressing my gratitude to him. I wasn't openly proclaiming how much I love him and how lucky I am to have him as my partner."
This has already made a difference. Like you used to Connie, I often forget in the hub-bub of the week to stop and take a moment to let Jay know how much he is loved and appreciated, or to offer him a cup of tea or a foot massage. I have now made a list for myself of little things I can do for him to show him how much I care. I have been thinking of things I can do whilst Sam is around (as that's pretty much always), that won't be in-your-face for Sam or really bother him that much, because if he feels he's not getting what he wants (usually attention) he will interrupt us anyway. Just words I can say, or snacks I can make, or a foot rub while Jay reads to Sam - that sort of thing. It could be a coincidence but I don't think so - today Sam was SO much nicer to Jay! He came and told me he wanted some time to just chill out together (I have been working all day and I assumed he was meaning just him and I, because we hadn't had much time together), but
instead he said no, he meant all three of us chilling out together! That is pretty much a first! So we played games all evening and now they are asleep together upstairs.
Sandra said "Don't tell your son he has the veto about every decision you or your husband make. And if you've done that, and he's vetoing a bunch of stuff, I'm guessing the relationships need sweetening up." We haven't done that, but we have told Sam on more than one occasion that his opinion counts and we will always try to take his needs or wishes into account. I can see how that may well have led him to step up and have his say on anything that doesn't quite suit him ;-) Hopefully the sweetening up of the relationships will help with that a bit.
Another thing which I understood, which is incredibly useful, and feels like a big relief - is to stop mixing up behaviours and issues and stuff that's going on for us as a family, with unschooling or whatever ideas I am trying to use. I am not overly concerned with being 'unschoolers', but I do use a lot of the tools and ideas that this list offers, and I did go to the Unschooling conference organised by Julie Daniel this year in the UK, and sometimes Jay will say "Why are we doing this xxx?" or "Where did you get that idea from?" and I refer to unschooling. Then, next time something is not going well, rather than looking at it for what it is (something which just as easily could be happening or could be even worse if we were more traditional or if Sam were in school) we both fall into a trap of looking at it as some kind of failure. A failure of our expectations?, our hopes? A failure of our choices?, our lifestyle? our parenting and educational
decisions?. A failure of ours, but mainly mine. My failure to have understood things well, since it's me who brings the ideas and does all the reading, my failure to have known what to do, my failure to have got things 'right', my failure to parent well :-( Then I/we really can get bogged down - our child doing xxx is all because we did or didn't do yyy. We messed things up, we somehow got it wrong - again. But feeling like a failure is our own baggage and is NOT good for unschooling! Something important has clicked - the whole set-up does not help me be my child's partner! I can and should be forward thinking and attentive, but when my child is upset despite my care, the tools are there to help, not to guarantee that nothing difficult will ever occur in the first place (people would have to have no personalities for that to happen!).
"If your husband will, share Susan Cain'sTED Talk about her book, The Power of Introverts:
Another good resource for undertanding unschooling itself is Pam Laricchia's book. It's not long and it's not strident. (My book is long and sometimes strident, and sometimes sweet and comforting, but Pam's might be better for a reluctant dad.)" After seeing that talk earlier this year I understood myself SO much better. So many things fell into place. I am eagerly waiting for her book to come out here - it's out in January, but I think I'm going to pre-order it. I did buy another book though (The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Lany), and I asked Jay to read it. He said he had a much better understanding of me afterwards, and it has helped our relationship since. I don't think he is ready to acknowledge that Sam also seems to be an introvert though! We have both also read Pam's book, but I haven't given him yours yet Sandra ;-)
"He is 5 and it seems like you are talking about him as though he were a teenager." I suspected that were the case! In some ways he seems so much older, and he's my one and only, so I don't have previous experience! I have to be very careful not to expect too much, more than he is capable of. I think trust comes in here - if I trust he is doing his best - he will show me when something is beyond him. Then I can focus on helping him and adjusting my own expectations.
Thank you again, sincerely.
Jo
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