Passions
keetry
I got another question that got me thinking. What about when your child's passions don't include certain things?
I don't know what those things are but I can guess. My assumption is that they are subjects that are taught in schools; history or geometry or a foreign language or maybe earth science. It seems so silly as I'm writing out this list because, to me, it's impossible to not learn about these things. It could be anything, though, whatever that parent thinks is important at the time. It seems to me that a person is more likely to learn about a lot more things by living a rich, full life rather than being limited to a certain number of specific, discrete subjects. A rich, full life is much more well-rounded than any educational curriculum.
Alysia
I don't know what those things are but I can guess. My assumption is that they are subjects that are taught in schools; history or geometry or a foreign language or maybe earth science. It seems so silly as I'm writing out this list because, to me, it's impossible to not learn about these things. It could be anything, though, whatever that parent thinks is important at the time. It seems to me that a person is more likely to learn about a lot more things by living a rich, full life rather than being limited to a certain number of specific, discrete subjects. A rich, full life is much more well-rounded than any educational curriculum.
Alysia
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:55 AM, keetry wrote:
If a parent can't replace her idea that learning is accumulating facts with the idea of learning is growing understanding from experience then unschooling will be scary and frustrating.
Joyce
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> What about when your child's passions don't include certain things?Then the parent will worry and won't be able to unschool well!
> It seems to me that a person is more likely to learn aboutAnd, more importantly, the person will be learning in a totally different way. They'll be making connection, creating theories about how the world works, testing those theories. They'll be building skills that can be used in many areas of their lives, whether they learn it from playing Pokemon or texting their friends or researching on the internet.
> a lot more things by living a rich, full life rather than being
> limited to a certain number of specific, discrete subjects
If a parent can't replace her idea that learning is accumulating facts with the idea of learning is growing understanding from experience then unschooling will be scary and frustrating.
Joyce
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Sandra Dodd
-=-What about when your child's passions don't include certain things? -=-
No one's "passion" includes everything, and not everyone has passion. :-)
Some people have casual interest, at most.
And don't be said if your child isn't passionate about pine cones or Matchbook cars or music. Sometimes the downside of a passionate personality is a corresponding downside, and potentially depression.
"Even keeled" personalities, without waves of up and down, can learn just as much as anybody, but it might not seem as dramatic.
Drama can be detrimental.
Probably I'm answering a different question, Alysia, but that's how it goes sometimes. :-)
-=- It could be anything, though, whatever that parent thinks is important at the time.-=-
If the parent wants a child to be passionate about whatever the parent thinks is important, unit studies would be a better match for that family than unschooling would be.
-=-A rich, full life is much more well-rounded than any educational curriculum.-=-
Nicely worded.
Sandra
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No one's "passion" includes everything, and not everyone has passion. :-)
Some people have casual interest, at most.
And don't be said if your child isn't passionate about pine cones or Matchbook cars or music. Sometimes the downside of a passionate personality is a corresponding downside, and potentially depression.
"Even keeled" personalities, without waves of up and down, can learn just as much as anybody, but it might not seem as dramatic.
Drama can be detrimental.
Probably I'm answering a different question, Alysia, but that's how it goes sometimes. :-)
-=- It could be anything, though, whatever that parent thinks is important at the time.-=-
If the parent wants a child to be passionate about whatever the parent thinks is important, unit studies would be a better match for that family than unschooling would be.
-=-A rich, full life is much more well-rounded than any educational curriculum.-=-
Nicely worded.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-If a parent can't replace her idea that learning is accumulating facts with the idea of learning is growing understanding from experience then unschooling will be scary and frustrating.-=-
Joyce wrote that, and she's right.
And if a parent who can't replace her ideas tries, anyway, to unschool, then that poor child might find unschooling to be scary and frustrating, as her mom goes back and forth between pretending and attempting to give her child options, and then taking them away.
Sandra
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Joyce wrote that, and she's right.
And if a parent who can't replace her ideas tries, anyway, to unschool, then that poor child might find unschooling to be scary and frustrating, as her mom goes back and forth between pretending and attempting to give her child options, and then taking them away.
Sandra
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Meredith
"keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:
Morgan's interests don't include cooking. Sometimes that seems strange to me when I read about people doing things in the kitchen with kids, or her friends come over and are all excited to help make cookies or stir the powder into the mac-n-cheese. But Ray (in our pre-unschooling days) was coaxed and bullied into the kitchen and by the time he left school didn't want to have anything to do with cooking. He learned to make things in the microwave first because those "didn't count" and were fun things like jello and coco and ramen noodles - previously blacklisted foods. Now he does all his own cooking. Mo doesn't have Ray's baggage. Whether she learns to cook or not, she'll never have to go through that stage of feeling like some foods or cooking methods are bad and shameful.
But another angle on that question is that sometimes parents worry about certain things because their ideas about learning still look like school subjects - math is the most obvious example because so many people who went through school have lost sight of what "math" really is. So a kid playing video games, or programming, or creating a treasure map, or playing with legos won't "look like math".
Those are more good examples of learning not looking like school. An interest in dinosaurs, for interest, will naturally lead kids into history and earth science, and touch on some foreign language, too. And you won't get far into earth science or fitting bones together without running into some geometry. And while you're playing around with geometry you'll run into more foreign language and history. But none of that learning will look like worksheets or pop quizzes and it will swirl around into and out of other interests and themes.
Because the focus of schools is on providing a "well rounded education" parents sometimes worry about "gaps" - but there are plenty of gaps in what kids learn in schools, and plenty of the "material" which gets "covered" is forgotten so quickly it might as well never have been learned at all.
---Meredith
>************
> I got another question that got me thinking. What about when your child's passions don't include certain things?
Morgan's interests don't include cooking. Sometimes that seems strange to me when I read about people doing things in the kitchen with kids, or her friends come over and are all excited to help make cookies or stir the powder into the mac-n-cheese. But Ray (in our pre-unschooling days) was coaxed and bullied into the kitchen and by the time he left school didn't want to have anything to do with cooking. He learned to make things in the microwave first because those "didn't count" and were fun things like jello and coco and ramen noodles - previously blacklisted foods. Now he does all his own cooking. Mo doesn't have Ray's baggage. Whether she learns to cook or not, she'll never have to go through that stage of feeling like some foods or cooking methods are bad and shameful.
But another angle on that question is that sometimes parents worry about certain things because their ideas about learning still look like school subjects - math is the most obvious example because so many people who went through school have lost sight of what "math" really is. So a kid playing video games, or programming, or creating a treasure map, or playing with legos won't "look like math".
>> My assumption is that they are subjects that are taught in schools; history or geometry or a foreign language or maybe earth science.*************
Those are more good examples of learning not looking like school. An interest in dinosaurs, for interest, will naturally lead kids into history and earth science, and touch on some foreign language, too. And you won't get far into earth science or fitting bones together without running into some geometry. And while you're playing around with geometry you'll run into more foreign language and history. But none of that learning will look like worksheets or pop quizzes and it will swirl around into and out of other interests and themes.
Because the focus of schools is on providing a "well rounded education" parents sometimes worry about "gaps" - but there are plenty of gaps in what kids learn in schools, and plenty of the "material" which gets "covered" is forgotten so quickly it might as well never have been learned at all.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-but there are plenty of gaps in what kids learn in schools, and plenty of the "material" which gets "covered" is forgotten so quickly it might as well never have been learned at all. -=-
I think it was NOT learned at all, just held temporarily, as one might hold one's breath, or hold coke in the mouth until it burns and you have to swallow or spit it out.
"Short-term memory" is worthless, pretty much, unless you're remembering an address long enough to tell it to a cab driver or something like that. A telephone number long enough to write it down.
And I think most of the learning in school is that kind of "learning."
Sandra
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I think it was NOT learned at all, just held temporarily, as one might hold one's breath, or hold coke in the mouth until it burns and you have to swallow or spit it out.
"Short-term memory" is worthless, pretty much, unless you're remembering an address long enough to tell it to a cab driver or something like that. A telephone number long enough to write it down.
And I think most of the learning in school is that kind of "learning."
Sandra
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Tam
--I think it was NOT learned at all, just held temporarily, as one might hold one's breath, or hold coke in the mouth until it burns and you have to swallow or spit it out. --
This is *exactly* how I remember feeling in the few hours run up to my GCSE and A-level exams (in England at 15 and 17 years old), a long time ago now. It was a physical feeling, in my head, that I was holding all this information in and had to get it into the exam room and tip it onto the paper... then as soon as the exam finished...exhale... and it was gone.
Tam
http://sprout-and-squidge.blogspot.com/
________________________________
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This is *exactly* how I remember feeling in the few hours run up to my GCSE and A-level exams (in England at 15 and 17 years old), a long time ago now. It was a physical feeling, in my head, that I was holding all this information in and had to get it into the exam room and tip it onto the paper... then as soon as the exam finished...exhale... and it was gone.
Tam
http://sprout-and-squidge.blogspot.com/
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
== Morgan's interests don't include cooking. Sometimes that seems strange to me when I read about people doing things in the kitchen with kids, or her friends come over and are all excited to help make cookies or stir the powder into the mac-n-cheese. But Ray (in our pre-unschooling days) was coaxed and bullied into the kitchen and by the time he left school didn't want to have anything to do with cooking.==
I don't like to cook. It bores me.
My next door neighbor was forced and bullied into doing repair/building projects around the house when he was a kid. He hates doing that kind of thing now and will do just about anything to get out of it, including making his teenaged daughter do it instead.
==But another angle on that question is that sometimes parents worry about certain things because their ideas about learning still look like school subjects==
Yes, I mention that it helps if one stops looking at it through school-colored glasses. Let go of any notions of subjects that one has to know and that are more important than other things in life. Knowing how to ride a bike is just as important as knowing how to read or add. You never know how it may enrich one's life.
==Because the focus of schools is on providing a "well rounded education" parents sometimes worry about "gaps" - but there are plenty of gaps in what kids learn in schools, and plenty of the "material" which gets "covered" is forgotten so quickly it might as well never have been learned at all.==
Yes, again. Even someone who is an expert in her field most likely doesn't know everything about that field. Schools can't provide information on everything a child could learn and know. And, a lot of times, what is taught in schools turns out to be wrong or outdated or biased or purposely containing gaps.
Alysia
I don't like to cook. It bores me.
My next door neighbor was forced and bullied into doing repair/building projects around the house when he was a kid. He hates doing that kind of thing now and will do just about anything to get out of it, including making his teenaged daughter do it instead.
==But another angle on that question is that sometimes parents worry about certain things because their ideas about learning still look like school subjects==
Yes, I mention that it helps if one stops looking at it through school-colored glasses. Let go of any notions of subjects that one has to know and that are more important than other things in life. Knowing how to ride a bike is just as important as knowing how to read or add. You never know how it may enrich one's life.
==Because the focus of schools is on providing a "well rounded education" parents sometimes worry about "gaps" - but there are plenty of gaps in what kids learn in schools, and plenty of the "material" which gets "covered" is forgotten so quickly it might as well never have been learned at all.==
Yes, again. Even someone who is an expert in her field most likely doesn't know everything about that field. Schools can't provide information on everything a child could learn and know. And, a lot of times, what is taught in schools turns out to be wrong or outdated or biased or purposely containing gaps.
Alysia