learning to read?
A Jones
My daughter wants to read very badly. She has not really responded to a
phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
out words, etc.)
What ways can you suggest to help her?
-april
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
out words, etc.)
What ways can you suggest to help her?
-april
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
You can help her most by being very calm and distracting her from too much
focus on it. Wanting to read and being ready to read aren't the same and
don't always happen at the same time in a child's development.
When Rosie (my now-21 yo) was 4 to 7 years old, she wanted to read and
write very much, but really wasn't ready. One thing that pleased her was
for me to tell me words she wanted to read...she'd say things like umbrella
or dinosaur. I'd write them on an index card and she'd draw a picture on
the other side. First there were only 2 or 3 and then 5 or 6 and finally
after a year or so there were around 30 or 40. She called them, "My Words,"
and could recognize them by sight. I referred to them as "the words you can
read already."
We also played a little game with a few words on index cards. I chose
action words - jump, hop, sit, bow. I didn't pick any words starting with
the same letter, at first. Also I started with just two words. I'd hold
them up and she'd do the action. Or she'd hold them up and I would do it.
Sometimes we'd get goofy and switch them quickly (good workout for me).
Later, I added in a word that started with the same letter as another one.
I added "jog" so both "jump" and "jog" started with "j." I only added words
as she because completely and thoroughly proficient with the ones she had
already and had had a lot of time playing with the ones she knew extremely
well.
Everything you do involving language is part of "learning to read." So play
rhyming games when riding in the car - as simple as go back and forth
saying words that sound like cat....hat, bat, rat, etc. See how many you
can name. Switch from "cat" to "kit" and then to "bat" and then "bit." IF
kids are at the right developmental stage for this, they'll love it. If not
- do something else.
A good car game is "My name is Ann and my husband's name is Alex and we
live in Anchorage and we sell Apples." Next person says, "My name is Barbie
and my husband's name is Bob and we live in Boston and we sell Balls." Take
turns, keep going through the alphabet.
You shouldn't think of these activities so much as reading lessons as fun
things to do with a kid whose interest currently lies in developing
literacy.
Peggy Kaye's book, "Games for Reading," could give you more ideas.
-pam
focus on it. Wanting to read and being ready to read aren't the same and
don't always happen at the same time in a child's development.
When Rosie (my now-21 yo) was 4 to 7 years old, she wanted to read and
write very much, but really wasn't ready. One thing that pleased her was
for me to tell me words she wanted to read...she'd say things like umbrella
or dinosaur. I'd write them on an index card and she'd draw a picture on
the other side. First there were only 2 or 3 and then 5 or 6 and finally
after a year or so there were around 30 or 40. She called them, "My Words,"
and could recognize them by sight. I referred to them as "the words you can
read already."
We also played a little game with a few words on index cards. I chose
action words - jump, hop, sit, bow. I didn't pick any words starting with
the same letter, at first. Also I started with just two words. I'd hold
them up and she'd do the action. Or she'd hold them up and I would do it.
Sometimes we'd get goofy and switch them quickly (good workout for me).
Later, I added in a word that started with the same letter as another one.
I added "jog" so both "jump" and "jog" started with "j." I only added words
as she because completely and thoroughly proficient with the ones she had
already and had had a lot of time playing with the ones she knew extremely
well.
Everything you do involving language is part of "learning to read." So play
rhyming games when riding in the car - as simple as go back and forth
saying words that sound like cat....hat, bat, rat, etc. See how many you
can name. Switch from "cat" to "kit" and then to "bat" and then "bit." IF
kids are at the right developmental stage for this, they'll love it. If not
- do something else.
A good car game is "My name is Ann and my husband's name is Alex and we
live in Anchorage and we sell Apples." Next person says, "My name is Barbie
and my husband's name is Bob and we live in Boston and we sell Balls." Take
turns, keep going through the alphabet.
You shouldn't think of these activities so much as reading lessons as fun
things to do with a kid whose interest currently lies in developing
literacy.
Peggy Kaye's book, "Games for Reading," could give you more ideas.
-pam
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:06 AM, A Jones <dancing_ajones@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> My daughter wants to read very badly. She has not really responded to a
> phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
> out words, etc.)
>
> What ways can you suggest to help her?
>
> -april
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
My 4.4 year old reads (no interest in writing) and she taught herself by playing computer games. We started with Starfall, and now she plays games at pbskids.org all the time. She also loves the show Word girl, and when she was younger, 2.5, she was obsessed with word world and super why. She taught herself via a whole language approach, and she is now working her way through bob readers, by herself, I might add, figuring out the phonics.
I've always spent a good hour a day reading to my kids. I don't think you really need to do more.
My 2.5 year old now wants to read, and his favorite show is now Word world.
Julie
Sent from my iPhone
I've always spent a good hour a day reading to my kids. I don't think you really need to do more.
My 2.5 year old now wants to read, and his favorite show is now Word world.
Julie
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 25, 2012, at 9:06 AM, "A Jones" <dancing_ajones@...> wrote:
> My daughter wants to read very badly. She has not really responded to a
> phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
> out words, etc.)
>
> What ways can you suggest to help her?
>
> -april
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-My daughter wants to read very badly. She has not really responded to a
phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
out words, etc.)-=-
How old is she and how long have you been moving toward unschooling?
-=-What ways can you suggest to help her? -=-
Could anyone with some time to look in the archives please bring links to some of the recent discussions of reading?
Thanks.
April, if you haven't already read here, please do, while other ideas are being brought.
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
phonics approach (playing with blocks/letters and building words, sounding
out words, etc.)-=-
How old is she and how long have you been moving toward unschooling?
-=-What ways can you suggest to help her? -=-
Could anyone with some time to look in the archives please bring links to some of the recent discussions of reading?
Thanks.
April, if you haven't already read here, please do, while other ideas are being brought.
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Julie <matisse22@...> wrote:
Read to them if and because they want you to - because it is a sweet sweet
time of life!! Don't skimp and don't force.
Some kids LOVE being read to - Rosie wanted to be read to for so many hours
every day that I paid her older sister to read to her. Some kids can't
stand to sit still long enough to be read to and an hour would be a lot for
them.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I've always spent a good hour a day reading to my kids. I don't think you"Need to?" You mean for the purpose of them learning to read?
> really need to do more.
Read to them if and because they want you to - because it is a sweet sweet
time of life!! Don't skimp and don't force.
Some kids LOVE being read to - Rosie wanted to be read to for so many hours
every day that I paid her older sister to read to her. Some kids can't
stand to sit still long enough to be read to and an hour would be a lot for
them.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 25, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Julie wrote:
Starfall is good for kids who find it fun and interesting. But it won't teach kids to read. Kids who are ready to read, kids who learn best by building a whole from parts (rather than absorbing wholes and breaking them down into parts) will probably find it fun. But your daughter would have figured out reading about the same time even without Starfall.
It will help parents greatly to understand that -- despite the message from schools -- that reading can't be taught any more than walking can. When kids are ready to walk, they pull themselves up. When kids are developmentally ready to read, they start decoding. What parents can do is create an environment that's rich with print and positive experience with the printed word.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> she taught herself by playing computer gamesLoads of 4 yos have played Starfall. Not all of them end up reading. Those that do were already ready to read, ready to pull in "puzzle pieces" that interested them and piece parts of the puzzle together.
Starfall is good for kids who find it fun and interesting. But it won't teach kids to read. Kids who are ready to read, kids who learn best by building a whole from parts (rather than absorbing wholes and breaking them down into parts) will probably find it fun. But your daughter would have figured out reading about the same time even without Starfall.
It will help parents greatly to understand that -- despite the message from schools -- that reading can't be taught any more than walking can. When kids are ready to walk, they pull themselves up. When kids are developmentally ready to read, they start decoding. What parents can do is create an environment that's rich with print and positive experience with the printed word.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Important.
Very important for this discussion:
Please don't think of it or write of it as "teaching" when you can use "learning."
-=-My 4.4 year old reads (no interest in writing) and she taught herself by playing computer games. We started with Starfall, and now she plays games atpbskids.org all the time. She also loves the show Word girl, and when she was younger, 2.5, she was obsessed with word world and super why. She taught herself via a whole language approach, and she is now working her way through bob readers, by herself, I might add, figuring out the phonics.-=-
Where did your daughter study the whole language approach to early childhood education? I don't think you mean to say she taught herself using that educational philosophy.
Your daughter learned to read by playing computer games.
She learned in a way that more resembled whole language than phonics, and she's figuring phonics out now that she can read.
It will make a difference in the way you see her, and learning, and it will help others see how to help their own children to learn.
Not to help them teach themselves, but to help them learn.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Very important for this discussion:
Please don't think of it or write of it as "teaching" when you can use "learning."
-=-My 4.4 year old reads (no interest in writing) and she taught herself by playing computer games. We started with Starfall, and now she plays games atpbskids.org all the time. She also loves the show Word girl, and when she was younger, 2.5, she was obsessed with word world and super why. She taught herself via a whole language approach, and she is now working her way through bob readers, by herself, I might add, figuring out the phonics.-=-
Where did your daughter study the whole language approach to early childhood education? I don't think you mean to say she taught herself using that educational philosophy.
Your daughter learned to read by playing computer games.
She learned in a way that more resembled whole language than phonics, and she's figuring phonics out now that she can read.
It will make a difference in the way you see her, and learning, and it will help others see how to help their own children to learn.
Not to help them teach themselves, but to help them learn.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Morgan didn't like to be read to as a young child because... because she didn't like speech. She didn't like hearing people talk, didn't like conversation, didn't like stories. And yet she learned to read around 4, while Ray learned around age 7, and nowadays she'll come and hang out while I play an audio book, sometimes with a project and other times she'll just sit and listen.
---Meredith
>Some kids can'tI'll chime in on this because it describes both my kids but in totally different ways. Ray couldn't sit still for an hour if you tied him down! I used to read full length novels aloud to him, though, while he would play next to me.
> stand to sit still long enough to be read to and an hour would be a lot for
> them.
Morgan didn't like to be read to as a young child because... because she didn't like speech. She didn't like hearing people talk, didn't like conversation, didn't like stories. And yet she learned to read around 4, while Ray learned around age 7, and nowadays she'll come and hang out while I play an audio book, sometimes with a project and other times she'll just sit and listen.
---Meredith
dancing_ajones
Sandra,
My daughter is 6 1/2. She has wanted to read for some time. She loves playing on Zoodles, and, after I showed her what it was and how to find it, she spends a couple of hours at a time focusing on games that section, before moving on to her favorite games.
We have been learning about unschooing for about 2 years now.
I understand that 6 is still young. However, I would like to allow her to explore her interest without pushing, but have not really felt that I was offering the opportunities, but instead was just not doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal. (She has set and achieved her own goals many times, like wiping herself at age 5, learning to ride her bike without training wheels this summer) So I feel that I need some ideas for suggesting to her that we could do if she wants to.
Does that help?
April
My daughter is 6 1/2. She has wanted to read for some time. She loves playing on Zoodles, and, after I showed her what it was and how to find it, she spends a couple of hours at a time focusing on games that section, before moving on to her favorite games.
We have been learning about unschooing for about 2 years now.
I understand that 6 is still young. However, I would like to allow her to explore her interest without pushing, but have not really felt that I was offering the opportunities, but instead was just not doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal. (She has set and achieved her own goals many times, like wiping herself at age 5, learning to ride her bike without training wheels this summer) So I feel that I need some ideas for suggesting to her that we could do if she wants to.
Does that help?
April
Sandra Dodd
-=-My daughter is 6 1/2.
We have been learning about unschooing for about 2 years now.
I understand that 6 is still young.
Does that help?-=-
That helps a lot.:-)
-=- I would like to allow her to explore her interest without pushing, but have not really felt that I was offering the opportunities, but instead was just not doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal. -=-
Play games with her that have to do with sounds. Pam suggested one.
Play with words, for fun, in various ways, not necessarily in writing.
If she's interested, maybe get sticky notes and put the names of things on them around the house. Maybe (if she's interested) mix some of them up and help her put them back where they go.
When Holly read, at 11, her vocabulary was already huge. There was no reason for her to read "baby books" or beginning readers. The first thing she read was by Judy Blume and the second was Stephen King.
The purpose of reading is to get information, to have access to stories. Find ways to get stories into her (read them, play recordings of people reading, watch more movies). Don't press for reading now, and literature later.
Maybe write down (print out, type out, however it works) lyrics to songs she likes, and sing along with her, from the lyric sheet. Kirby had a notebook of lyric sheets when he was learning to read.
Find webpages about things she's interested in and read to her--don't run your finger along trying to "help her read." But get the kind of information she would read if she could read, and get it for her, without pressure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have been learning about unschooing for about 2 years now.
I understand that 6 is still young.
Does that help?-=-
That helps a lot.:-)
-=- I would like to allow her to explore her interest without pushing, but have not really felt that I was offering the opportunities, but instead was just not doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal. -=-
Play games with her that have to do with sounds. Pam suggested one.
Play with words, for fun, in various ways, not necessarily in writing.
If she's interested, maybe get sticky notes and put the names of things on them around the house. Maybe (if she's interested) mix some of them up and help her put them back where they go.
When Holly read, at 11, her vocabulary was already huge. There was no reason for her to read "baby books" or beginning readers. The first thing she read was by Judy Blume and the second was Stephen King.
The purpose of reading is to get information, to have access to stories. Find ways to get stories into her (read them, play recordings of people reading, watch more movies). Don't press for reading now, and literature later.
Maybe write down (print out, type out, however it works) lyrics to songs she likes, and sing along with her, from the lyric sheet. Kirby had a notebook of lyric sheets when he was learning to read.
Find webpages about things she's interested in and read to her--don't run your finger along trying to "help her read." But get the kind of information she would read if she could read, and get it for her, without pressure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 26, 2012, at 1:30 AM, dancing_ajones wrote:
First I hope you're NOT building from the posted ideas a rule that unschooling is "learning on their own" or "learning without interference", that you're not to do anything that interferes with that ideal.
(You don't need to reply to that. I'm trying to make perfectly clear what people are saying.)
Unschooling is supporting kids in exploring what interests them.
BUT if you believe some program will unlock the mysteries of reading for her -- and support her in believing it too -- *and* she's not developmentally ready to read, you're likely setting her up to feel she's at fault for not being able to read.
Which leads into: Second, and most important, even if she has a goal she might not be developmentally able to read yet. *If her brain isn't developmentally ready to decode* no amount of games or reading will make it ready. Her brain needs to grow more connections (or whatever it does). And that comes with time.
Live life joyfully. Support her in what she wants to explore. But *DO* let her know her brain might not have grown enough yet to be ready to read. That she *will* read when her brain has grown enough to do what it needs to do to read. If her brain isn't ready, she can't.
Maybe you can liken it to some lack of height issue she may have had. No matter how much she strained, no amount of wanting was going to make her tall enough to reach that light switch or faucet. (Or something she physically wanted to do that her body hadn't grown enough for.) And then one day she *had* grown enough and then she could reach it.
It will be just the same with reading.
Read to her if she wants to. Get Peggy Kaye's Reading Games book and play some games if she wants to. Make available games on line that involve words that she enjoys, even games that are specifically for reading. Write words on cards as Pam suggested, if she wants to. Create a rich, joyful environment that includes words and loads of other things. And then when her brain is ready, she'll read.
(There was a book Pam Sorooshian has recommended for parents and kids about what reading is, that I can never remember the name of. It isn't just reading a page of words. It's pulling information from pictures, from context and so on.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I understand that 6 is still young.6 could be "old" if she was ready to read at 4. ;-) (And *if* she had been ready at 4, she *would* be reading now if she was joyfully interacting with the printed word in a supportive environment.)
> but instead was just not doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal.Two ideas you've expressed in just in those few words that it will help you to examine:
First I hope you're NOT building from the posted ideas a rule that unschooling is "learning on their own" or "learning without interference", that you're not to do anything that interferes with that ideal.
(You don't need to reply to that. I'm trying to make perfectly clear what people are saying.)
Unschooling is supporting kids in exploring what interests them.
BUT if you believe some program will unlock the mysteries of reading for her -- and support her in believing it too -- *and* she's not developmentally ready to read, you're likely setting her up to feel she's at fault for not being able to read.
Which leads into: Second, and most important, even if she has a goal she might not be developmentally able to read yet. *If her brain isn't developmentally ready to decode* no amount of games or reading will make it ready. Her brain needs to grow more connections (or whatever it does). And that comes with time.
Live life joyfully. Support her in what she wants to explore. But *DO* let her know her brain might not have grown enough yet to be ready to read. That she *will* read when her brain has grown enough to do what it needs to do to read. If her brain isn't ready, she can't.
Maybe you can liken it to some lack of height issue she may have had. No matter how much she strained, no amount of wanting was going to make her tall enough to reach that light switch or faucet. (Or something she physically wanted to do that her body hadn't grown enough for.) And then one day she *had* grown enough and then she could reach it.
It will be just the same with reading.
Read to her if she wants to. Get Peggy Kaye's Reading Games book and play some games if she wants to. Make available games on line that involve words that she enjoys, even games that are specifically for reading. Write words on cards as Pam suggested, if she wants to. Create a rich, joyful environment that includes words and loads of other things. And then when her brain is ready, she'll read.
(There was a book Pam Sorooshian has recommended for parents and kids about what reading is, that I can never remember the name of. It isn't just reading a page of words. It's pulling information from pictures, from context and so on.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 25, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
(I'm including the text of the original message because my mail program thinks I'm sending spam if I have links with just a small amount of text with them. It's rather annoying.)
What would you do to help your child learn to read when HE wants to.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67992
Reading When Ready
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67651
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Could anyone with some time to look in the archives pleaseI don't have time, but it's easier than the other things I want to get done ;-)
> bring links to some of the recent discussions of reading?
> Thanks.
(I'm including the text of the original message because my mail program thinks I'm sending spam if I have links with just a small amount of text with them. It's rather annoying.)
What would you do to help your child learn to read when HE wants to.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67992
> My 12 year old wants to learn to read. His younger brothers who are 10 and 8 canAnd maybe:
> read and his sister who is 5 is starting to read as well. He has asked me to
> help him and we've tried a few different methods and it's not clicking for him.
> I'm not sure where to go from here. He is sad and frustrated. He has a lot of
> the symptoms of dyslexia. I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a child so I can see
> it very much in him but I don't know if that means he can or can't learn to read
> without a trained tutor? I would be happy to wait and see but he wants this
> badly and he is telling me he thinks he is stupid because all his younger
> siblings are passing him :(
Reading When Ready
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67651
> thank you everyone for taking time to respond to my questions! IJoyce
> really apreciate the insights and thinkings. I will follow up on
> various research ideas (books/links etc) once I get home. In the
> meantime, I would be interested if anyone is able to expand on the
> advantages of late reading. I remember someone once talking about a
> book called 'better late than early' - has anyone read this?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex
> (There was a book Pam Sorooshian has recommended for parents and kids about what reading is, that I can never remember the name of. It isn't just reading a page of words. It's pulling information from pictures, from context and so on.)I don't remember reading a recommendation from Pam, but we have one we stumbled on used called Hey! I'm Reading! by Betty Miles. It's available used on Amazon. My 5yo asks me to read it to her periodically. I think it's very reassuring for a kid who loves books but isn't really ready to decode. For example, it points out that if you know the names of the letters O and K, you can read the word OK. My daughter maybe knows the names of 7-12 letters but as she has a K name she can do that.
Alex N.
Meredith
"dancing_ajones" <dancing_ajones@...> wrote:
It can help to think a little more clearly about "her interest" considering that it may not be Possible for her to learn to read right now. Chances are, she's Not interested in hours of frustration and feeling stupid and inept! So what does she really want? The independence of reading without you? Look for audio books, read-alongs, and subtitled shows and movies. Does she want the luxury of being able to read the same thing over and over without mom sighing in frustration? That's an easy fix ;) Does she need a "trick" to show grandma or the neighbors? Help her find another cool trick to show off.
Does she not like to be read to at all? Read to her as much as she wants. If, like my daughter, she's not a fan of speech, look at pictures together, and diagrams and charts. Do you have any of the really simple books where everything in the picture is labeled? Those were handy for Mo.
Keep in mind that if daughter's not ready, it won't matter what you do, you'll end up with a frustrated little girl. If she's ready, she'll start reading things - that sounds like some kind of magic trick, but learning to read works like learning to walk or speak. A kid who likes a good puzzle will start puzzling out phonetic correspondences using clues like the alphabet song, or arranging the magnetic letters on your fridge (if you don't have any, get some) and asking you to pronounce them. Other kids will start reciting books along with mom while reading, or shout out words at appropriate times in the text, or pointing out street signs. Not all those things will lead directly to reading, but those are all examples of what kids do while learning to read. If she's doing things like that but not reading on her own, chances are she's not ready yet, or she's still building a collection of words she recognizes.
But it still may be important for you to offer reassurance and distraction, if she's not really ready to read.
---Meredith
>> I understand that 6 is still young. However, I would like to allow her to explore her interest without pushing**************
It can help to think a little more clearly about "her interest" considering that it may not be Possible for her to learn to read right now. Chances are, she's Not interested in hours of frustration and feeling stupid and inept! So what does she really want? The independence of reading without you? Look for audio books, read-alongs, and subtitled shows and movies. Does she want the luxury of being able to read the same thing over and over without mom sighing in frustration? That's an easy fix ;) Does she need a "trick" to show grandma or the neighbors? Help her find another cool trick to show off.
>>So I feel that I need some ideas for suggesting to her that we could do if she wants to.**************
Does she not like to be read to at all? Read to her as much as she wants. If, like my daughter, she's not a fan of speech, look at pictures together, and diagrams and charts. Do you have any of the really simple books where everything in the picture is labeled? Those were handy for Mo.
Keep in mind that if daughter's not ready, it won't matter what you do, you'll end up with a frustrated little girl. If she's ready, she'll start reading things - that sounds like some kind of magic trick, but learning to read works like learning to walk or speak. A kid who likes a good puzzle will start puzzling out phonetic correspondences using clues like the alphabet song, or arranging the magnetic letters on your fridge (if you don't have any, get some) and asking you to pronounce them. Other kids will start reciting books along with mom while reading, or shout out words at appropriate times in the text, or pointing out street signs. Not all those things will lead directly to reading, but those are all examples of what kids do while learning to read. If she's doing things like that but not reading on her own, chances are she's not ready yet, or she's still building a collection of words she recognizes.
But it still may be important for you to offer reassurance and distraction, if she's not really ready to read.
---Meredith
Robin Bentley
> We have been learning about unschooing for about 2 years now.This jumped out at me. Is it you and your partner who have been
learning about unschooling? Because your daughter doesn't really need
to think about that.
>My daughter did not learn to read at 6 or 7 or even 9. She read, when
> I understand that 6 is still young. However, I would like to allow
> her to explore her interest without pushing, but have not really
> felt that I was offering the opportunities, but instead was just not
> doing ANYTHING to help her reach her goal. (She has set and achieved
> her own goals many times, like wiping herself at age 5, learning to
> ride her bike without training wheels this summer) So I feel that I
> need some ideas for suggesting to her that we could do if she wants
> to.
she was ready, at around 10.
We read to her from the time she could hold her head up. Sometimes,
like Meredith's Ray, she was doing something else while I read. More
often, it was our connecting-cuddle time. Especially at 6!
Senna wanted to read, but not for reading's sake (which seems to be
your understanding of your daughter's goal). She wanted to read so she
could build more enclosures and take care of more animals and
understand the running of a zoo better in Zoo Tycoon 2. It's not that
she wasn't reading at all. She'd been on the path for years. But she
said "when I could read 'reticulated giraffe' I knew I could
read" (which meant to the level she'd set herself).
What does your daughter enjoy doing? Bring her words (books, websites,
games, etc.) that feed those interests. Reading will come eventually
as part of her learning through her passions.
Help her when she needs help. Does she ask you to tell her what words
say? Do you do that, without comment?
I'm not sure about this, but I wonder if you think unschooling is
leaving all the responsibility for learning up to her?
Robin B.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Alex wrote:
http://amzn.to/MLGXSO
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't remember reading a recommendation from Pam, butYes, that's it :-) Here's the link:
> we have one we stumbled on used called Hey! I'm Reading! by Betty Miles
http://amzn.to/MLGXSO
Joyce
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Pam Sorooshian
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Alex <missalexmissalex@...> wrote:
reassuring to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > (There was a book Pam Sorooshian has recommended for parents and kidsHa - that is the one I've recommended. I liked it a lot and it was very
> about what reading is, that I can never remember the name of. It isn't just
> reading a page of words. It's pulling information from pictures, from
> context and so on.)
>
> I don't remember reading a recommendation from Pam, but we have one we
> stumbled on used called Hey! I'm Reading! by Betty Miles.
>
reassuring to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CarenKH
=-=For example, it points out that if you know the names of the letters O and K, you can read the word OK. =-=
I don't know how this would be as a "learn to read" book, but the OK thing reminded me of a book my son really enjoyed: CDB! by William Steig (author of Shrek). Before Seth was decoding words, but knew most of the letters, he could read this - when you read the letters, it sounds like words. Examples, besides the title (See the Bee!), is K-T S D-Z. I C Y. (Katie is dizzy. I see why.) Or D N S 5 X. (The hen has 5 eggs.)
We had so much fun with that book!
Caren
I don't know how this would be as a "learn to read" book, but the OK thing reminded me of a book my son really enjoyed: CDB! by William Steig (author of Shrek). Before Seth was decoding words, but knew most of the letters, he could read this - when you read the letters, it sounds like words. Examples, besides the title (See the Bee!), is K-T S D-Z. I C Y. (Katie is dizzy. I see why.) Or D N S 5 X. (The hen has 5 eggs.)
We had so much fun with that book!
Caren
Christine Milne
> It can help to think a little more clearly about "her interest" considering that it may not be Possible for her to learn to read right now. Chances are,My daughter Astra is also six. When she expressed a desire to be able to read, it was because some of the children at our Storytime were reading books aloud. She wanted to be a part of that. She didn’t actually care if she could read or not, but she didn’t want to be left out of the, ‘everyone look at and listen to me’ thing. So one thing we did was chain storytelling with a bag of random props. And making up plays with puppets. Another thing we have done is to use wordless books, Astra really enjoys reading these out loud.
> she's Not interested in hours of frustration and feeling stupid and inept! So what does she really want? The independence of reading without you?....
> .....Does she need a "trick" to show grandma or the neighbors? Help her find another cool trick to show off.
A couple of wordless books I’d recommend are, ‘Up and Up’, by Shirley Hughes, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Up-Red-Fox-picture-books/dp/0099922509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343331985&sr=1-1
and also, ‘One Frog Too Many’, by Mercer and Marianna Mayer, http://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Frog-Too-Many-Boy/dp/0803728859/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343332096&sr=1-2 . There is a series of these books.
Christine
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Meredith
> > (There was a book Pam Sorooshian has recommended for parents and kids about what reading is, that I can never remember the name of. It isn't just reading a page of words. It's pulling information from pictures, from context and so on.)***************
Another good book is Literacy Through Play by Gretchen Owocki.
It's nice because, as the title suggests, it looks at a bigger picture than just "reading" - learning about print in different contexts, learning about the nature of stories, learning about communication, learning about providing and gathering information, etc, are all tied in to what we often think of more narrowly as "learning to read". It doesn't discuss late readers in particular, but it does help to give a complex picture of all the different kinds of learning which tie into reading. Thinking in terms of literacy, a kid who watches movies and plays games, tells stories and has conversations, is becoming more literate all the time, whether or not he or she sits down with a book.
---Meredith
sylviawoodman
Some other wordless books that we like here are Pancakes for Breakfast http://www.amazon.com/Pancakes-Breakfast-Tomie-dePaola/dp/0156707683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343348042&sr=1-1&keywords=pancakes+for+breakfast
and Tuesday
http://www.amazon.com/Tuesday-David-Wiesner/dp/0395870828/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343348102&sr=1-1&keywords=tuesday
Warmly,
Sylvia
and Tuesday
http://www.amazon.com/Tuesday-David-Wiesner/dp/0395870828/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343348102&sr=1-1&keywords=tuesday
Warmly,
Sylvia
--- In [email protected], "Christine Milne" <wastesaver@...> wrote:
>
> > It can help to think a little more clearly about "her interest" considering that it may not be Possible for her to learn to read right now. Chances are,
> > she's Not interested in hours of frustration and feeling stupid and inept! So what does she really want? The independence of reading without you?....
> > .....Does she need a "trick" to show grandma or the neighbors? Help her find another cool trick to show off.
> My daughter Astra is also six. When she expressed a desire to be able to read, it was because some of the children at our Storytime were reading books aloud. She wanted to be a part of that. She didnât actually care if she could read or not, but she didnât want to be left out of the, âeveryone look at and listen to meâ thing. So one thing we did was chain storytelling with a bag of random props. And making up plays with puppets. Another thing we have done is to use wordless books, Astra really enjoys reading these out loud.
> A couple of wordless books Iâd recommend are, âUp and Upâ, by Shirley Hughes, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Up-Red-Fox-picture-books/dp/0099922509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343331985&sr=1-1
> and also, âOne Frog Too Manyâ, by Mercer and Marianna Mayer, http://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Frog-Too-Many-Boy/dp/0803728859/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343332096&sr=1-2 . There is a series of these books.
>
> Christine
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
dancing_ajones
Thank you to everyone for the suggestions and book recommendations. I am excited to offer some new ideas and see what she enjoys doing. (:
Robin - no, my husband is not supportive of unschooling. Although, to be honest, I only just found out about this after he moved out suddenly 10 days ago. I do not want to push my daughter to read, and I was planning to ask this question here anyway, simply because she was saying that she wanted to learn to read, and I have seen her doing what I have shown her with determination.
But, he really needs to see some progress, or I might lose the home education entirely. In spite of all that, I want to do it in a way that honors my daughter's journey. I figure if she really is as ready as she seems, and is as determined as she seems, then if I can find the right tools for her, it could happen. Or at least we could pick up some "tricks" (as some suggested) along the way that would allow my husband to see some progress and relax, and give us some breathing room.
I know the pressure of our situation is going to probably hinder her progress right now. As well, I might be tempted to push her. Being aware, and watching for it seem like the best I can do right now.
Please understand that I REALLY am committed to letting her have the space and time she needs - but am really wanting to introduce some new ideas of how we can accomplish it. I am only familiar with the "teach by phonics" approach. So all ideas and suggestions, explanation about how reading happens, etc. are all helpful. Yes, I'm reading Sandra's articles, but the paradgm shift is sometimes a slow process. (:
Quitting the old ways might be easy to do, but this dog is not so young and learning new tricks - er, I mean, tools - is hard.
Thank you again for everyone's patience and suggestions. I am looking forward to playing some new games and activities with her.
April
Robin - no, my husband is not supportive of unschooling. Although, to be honest, I only just found out about this after he moved out suddenly 10 days ago. I do not want to push my daughter to read, and I was planning to ask this question here anyway, simply because she was saying that she wanted to learn to read, and I have seen her doing what I have shown her with determination.
But, he really needs to see some progress, or I might lose the home education entirely. In spite of all that, I want to do it in a way that honors my daughter's journey. I figure if she really is as ready as she seems, and is as determined as she seems, then if I can find the right tools for her, it could happen. Or at least we could pick up some "tricks" (as some suggested) along the way that would allow my husband to see some progress and relax, and give us some breathing room.
I know the pressure of our situation is going to probably hinder her progress right now. As well, I might be tempted to push her. Being aware, and watching for it seem like the best I can do right now.
Please understand that I REALLY am committed to letting her have the space and time she needs - but am really wanting to introduce some new ideas of how we can accomplish it. I am only familiar with the "teach by phonics" approach. So all ideas and suggestions, explanation about how reading happens, etc. are all helpful. Yes, I'm reading Sandra's articles, but the paradgm shift is sometimes a slow process. (:
Quitting the old ways might be easy to do, but this dog is not so young and learning new tricks - er, I mean, tools - is hard.
Thank you again for everyone's patience and suggestions. I am looking forward to playing some new games and activities with her.
April
Sandra Dodd
-=-Robin - no, my husband is not supportive of unschooling. Although, to be honest, I only just found out about this after he moved out suddenly 10 days ago.-=-
Stop everything else you're doing and thinking, and see if you can salvage your marriage.
Unschooling cannot, should not be done by one person without the other parent at least trying to understand it, without the primary unschooling parent sharing what's going on in loving, supportive ways.
http://sandradodd.com/spouses
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
In cases of divorce, very often the child ends up in school after a while anyway.
Any avoidable divorce is bad for children. (Unavoidable ones suck as well.)
Any salvageable marriage with children should be salvaged.
I have ideas for counsellors or coaches if you want.
There are things unschooling needs that will go away if you're divorced. Stability, spending money, peace, security, time with your child even.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stop everything else you're doing and thinking, and see if you can salvage your marriage.
Unschooling cannot, should not be done by one person without the other parent at least trying to understand it, without the primary unschooling parent sharing what's going on in loving, supportive ways.
http://sandradodd.com/spouses
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
In cases of divorce, very often the child ends up in school after a while anyway.
Any avoidable divorce is bad for children. (Unavoidable ones suck as well.)
Any salvageable marriage with children should be salvaged.
I have ideas for counsellors or coaches if you want.
There are things unschooling needs that will go away if you're divorced. Stability, spending money, peace, security, time with your child even.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:36 AM, dancing_ajones wrote:
Here's what reading in first grade is defined as for a school Claremont CA (The first one that popped up.)
Even if you list just 5 of those, it will sound like she's on a reading track.
> Please understand that I REALLY am committed to letting her have the space and time she needsYou can also redefine what "reading" is to help your husband trust she's making progress. It's what schools have done. Schools define reading in terms of what they can get kids to do. Reading in school isn't, as it is outside of school, being able to read whatever text someone finds in front of them.
Here's what reading in first grade is defined as for a school Claremont CA (The first one that popped up.)
Even if you list just 5 of those, it will sound like she's on a reading track.
> Standard 1:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Reading Process
>
> To progress toward the content standard in Reading Skills and Strategies, first grade
> students will:
>
> Demonstrate an understanding of how print is organized and read.
>
> To progress toward meeting the grade level standard, students will:
> � Recognize and name all upper and lower-case letters.
> � Match some high frequency oral words to some high frequency printed words.
> � Recognize the function of empty space in establishing word boundaries.
>
> Demonstrate developmentally appropriate levels of phonemic awareness,
> decoding and word recognition.
>
> To progress toward meeting the grade level standard, students will:
> � Hear each separate sound in words.
> � Identify middle and ending consonant sounds.
> � Blend sounds such as /c/ /a/ /t/ into �cat�.
> � Change ending sound to create new words, such as cat into /c/ /a/ /n/.
> � Delete beginning sounds to make a new word, such as, �If I had �cat� and I took
> off/c/ what would be left?�
> � Identify all upper and lower case letters.
> � Identify all corresponding consonant sounds and approximate vowel sounds.
> � Break words into syllables.
> � Read familiar text.
> � Use decoding strategies (phonics) to explore new text.
> � Look for word parts.
>
> To progress toward the content standard in Reading Comprehension, first grade students
> will:
>
> Respond to fictional texts to develop understanding of a story read aloud.
>
> To progress toward meeting the grade level standard, students will:
> � Recognize topic or main idea.
> � Clearly retell stories including beginning, middle and end.
> � Respond to who, what, where, when and how questions.
> � Summarize simple narrative passages.
> � Use who, what, where, when and how questions to compare various versions
> of the same text.
> � Identify a story as a type of literature.
>
> Respond to nonfiction text or informational material that has been read aloud to
> develop understanding and expertise.