Safety in the Summer
Rach
To give you a small amount of background: I am a mother of four children who bless me with their intelligence, curiosity, and affection daily. My oldest is 9 and my youngest is 2. We live in a poor neighborhood where everything is crowded and ugly and most of our friends are children whose parents don't have time or motivation to be with them. So they end up in our yard for most of the summer.
A friend of mine and I recently decided to walk to a swimming hole where many of the neighborhood kids go when they tell their parents they are at a friend's house. It's wonderful. It's a mile walk, and the walk is a little less than safe because of narrow roads and no sidewalks in some places. But it was worth it. The swimming hole is a wide river and it's beautiful. The water is a little fast and the depths vary. The last time we went, two neighborhood children came along with us. They asked permission from their mothers, who asked them to behave themselves and stay close to us. We had a total of eight children with two adults.
So my question is this: how would a well-developed unschooling family handle safety in this situation? There are parts of the river that are more dangerous than others. I don't want to be yelling at them to stay here, don't go so far. I love that they are exploring. But at the same time, I have responsibility for two kids that aren't my own. My four year old stays naturally near me and my two year old stays in a stroller that I move into the water so he can kick his toes in. Since I have the little ones, going out to the deeper parts wouldn't really be easy or helpful - the stroller doesn't go and if I had him in my arms, I couldn't help someone who went under.
So far it's been great and there have been no problems, but as I am growing in my understanding of myself and my children and trying to allow what I believe and what I do to be the same, I wanted to see if anyone had any advice. Thank you.
A friend of mine and I recently decided to walk to a swimming hole where many of the neighborhood kids go when they tell their parents they are at a friend's house. It's wonderful. It's a mile walk, and the walk is a little less than safe because of narrow roads and no sidewalks in some places. But it was worth it. The swimming hole is a wide river and it's beautiful. The water is a little fast and the depths vary. The last time we went, two neighborhood children came along with us. They asked permission from their mothers, who asked them to behave themselves and stay close to us. We had a total of eight children with two adults.
So my question is this: how would a well-developed unschooling family handle safety in this situation? There are parts of the river that are more dangerous than others. I don't want to be yelling at them to stay here, don't go so far. I love that they are exploring. But at the same time, I have responsibility for two kids that aren't my own. My four year old stays naturally near me and my two year old stays in a stroller that I move into the water so he can kick his toes in. Since I have the little ones, going out to the deeper parts wouldn't really be easy or helpful - the stroller doesn't go and if I had him in my arms, I couldn't help someone who went under.
So far it's been great and there have been no problems, but as I am growing in my understanding of myself and my children and trying to allow what I believe and what I do to be the same, I wanted to see if anyone had any advice. Thank you.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Since I have the little ones, going out to the deeper parts wouldn't really be easy or helpful - the stroller doesn't go and if I had him in my arms, I couldn't help someone who went under. -=-
Not even your older two?
If your friend swims, maybe you could take turns being with the smallest kids.
As to not yelling at them, I would say before you left that they could go IF they stay close to you. And if they don't, don't take them in the future.
I don't think this is an unschooling question, really, though, is it? It's more about legalities and interpersonals. The situation would be the same even if your kids were in school and this was happening on a Saturday.
Sandra
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Not even your older two?
If your friend swims, maybe you could take turns being with the smallest kids.
As to not yelling at them, I would say before you left that they could go IF they stay close to you. And if they don't, don't take them in the future.
I don't think this is an unschooling question, really, though, is it? It's more about legalities and interpersonals. The situation would be the same even if your kids were in school and this was happening on a Saturday.
Sandra
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Robert and Colleen
*****We live in a poor neighborhood where everything is crowded and ugly...****
Not what you're asking about :-) but this jumped out at me.
Even in the poorest, most crowded neighborhoods I've ever seen, there are still things of beauty. In places of great poverty one might find (not each time in every place, but rather at various times and places)... old buildings or interesting architecture, even if those buildings are rundown. Flowers and hummingbird feeders on someone's porch. Dogs or kittens playing on the sidewalks or in the road. Interesting views, sparrows flitting around, pretty blue skies, funky cloud formations overhead. Children playing, old folks talking, people wearing interesting clothes or eating interesting food. Etc, etc.
No matter where you live, describing the world your children inhabit as "ugly" seems harsh to me, and not a way to spread happiness in and around their life :-)
Not what you're asking about :-) but this jumped out at me.
Even in the poorest, most crowded neighborhoods I've ever seen, there are still things of beauty. In places of great poverty one might find (not each time in every place, but rather at various times and places)... old buildings or interesting architecture, even if those buildings are rundown. Flowers and hummingbird feeders on someone's porch. Dogs or kittens playing on the sidewalks or in the road. Interesting views, sparrows flitting around, pretty blue skies, funky cloud formations overhead. Children playing, old folks talking, people wearing interesting clothes or eating interesting food. Etc, etc.
No matter where you live, describing the world your children inhabit as "ugly" seems harsh to me, and not a way to spread happiness in and around their life :-)
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Sandra Dodd
I think an unattractive neighborhood could make a swimming hole even more glorious by contrast, though.
Rach
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>That's all I meant. Our home is full of books, games, toys, science experiments. We grow things in the yard, we discover places at museums. The swimming hole is like heaven to us, to find something natural and beautiful and so BIG is just fun for all of us, especially the kids whose parents aren't necessarily expanding their worlds the way our family tries to do. To me it was an unschooling question because of the contrast between the freedom to explore that I want to give my own kids as opposed to the trust I may not be able to share with the other kids. I suppose it's more of an "attentive parenting" parenting question than an unschooling question. Thanks for the insight about spreading positivity.
> I think an unattractive neighborhood could make a swimming hole even more glorious by contrast, though.
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 23, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Rach wrote:
As Sandra says, an If-then agreement. I have this page:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/changing%20parenting/ifthencontracts.html
While it sounds like a rule with punishments for breaking it -- and might sound so to the neighbor kids at first -- it isn't. The difference is you're not trying to get the kids to change. You're creating a safe environment. The difference is your response to them not staying close isn't arbitrary. It's you making the safe choice. *They* get to decide whether or not to help you create a safe time.
Joyce
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> But at the same time, I have responsibility for two kids that aren't my ownYou let them know what you need to feel comfortable. It's information. If they show they can't (yet) give it to you, let them know you can't take them the next time.
As Sandra says, an If-then agreement. I have this page:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/changing%20parenting/ifthencontracts.html
While it sounds like a rule with punishments for breaking it -- and might sound so to the neighbor kids at first -- it isn't. The difference is you're not trying to get the kids to change. You're creating a safe environment. The difference is your response to them not staying close isn't arbitrary. It's you making the safe choice. *They* get to decide whether or not to help you create a safe time.
Joyce
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Meredith
"Rach" <bostwick@...> wrote:
It's not a terrible thing to do a little yelling in the sense of reminding them before they've gone too far, and some kids will need more reminders than others. Talk to them before you leave, reminding them you have the little kids to keep an eye on - if they're going to run off, you won't be able to bring them again, and you Want to be able to bring them to the swimming hole.
---Meredith
>I don't want to be yelling at them to stay here, don't go so far. I love that they are exploring. But at the same time, I have responsibility for two kids that aren't my own.****************
It's not a terrible thing to do a little yelling in the sense of reminding them before they've gone too far, and some kids will need more reminders than others. Talk to them before you leave, reminding them you have the little kids to keep an eye on - if they're going to run off, you won't be able to bring them again, and you Want to be able to bring them to the swimming hole.
>>We had a total of eight children with two adults.If that's a regular thing, have one adult stay with the little kids and one lead an exploring party. Depending on the kids, you might ask one of the older kids to stay and help you with the little ones while others go off on an adventure.
---Meredith
emstrength3
======
I was thinking about this today- the difference between consequences, and the suggestion here to not take the kids who couldn't stay close enough to be safe.
Some parents would read that and definitely think it is a consequence. I think the difference is that for parents who are thinking in terms of consequences, the questions that follow are "Is it a fair consequence? How long will I have to uphold the consequence? What consequence should I enact for the next misbehavior?" and the focus becomes what they are *doing to* the child.
The way I read it, and what I would be thinking if I said it, is that it's about common sense and safety and logistics. Then the focus becomes, "How can we make this safe? What could we change logistically?" and the focus becomes how the adult can *work with* the child.
Emily
> While it sounds like a rule with punishments for breaking it -- and might sound so to the neighbor kids at first -- it isn't. The difference is you're not trying to get the kids to change. You're creating a safe environment. The difference is your response to them not staying close isn't arbitrary. It's you making the safe choice. *They* get to decide whether or not to help you create a safe time.=======
I was thinking about this today- the difference between consequences, and the suggestion here to not take the kids who couldn't stay close enough to be safe.
Some parents would read that and definitely think it is a consequence. I think the difference is that for parents who are thinking in terms of consequences, the questions that follow are "Is it a fair consequence? How long will I have to uphold the consequence? What consequence should I enact for the next misbehavior?" and the focus becomes what they are *doing to* the child.
The way I read it, and what I would be thinking if I said it, is that it's about common sense and safety and logistics. Then the focus becomes, "How can we make this safe? What could we change logistically?" and the focus becomes how the adult can *work with* the child.
Emily