Siblings, equality, being fair, taking turns
Clare
My children are 6, 4, and 2. Over the last few weeks I've been trying to adopt unschooling principles, slowly, and trying to say yes more in previously restricted areas like food and tv. In the main, I'm really appreciating the more relaxed atmosphere and not battling my kids.
But I'm not sure if I'm getting it quite right yet. A system has evolved for watching tv: one child asks for it on, they all sit down and take turns in choosing what to watch (Netflix, DVDs etc - no live channels due to finances).
It's not quite as harmonious as I would like! There are arguments over whose turn it is (my son, 6, gets very upset if he doesn't get to pick first), and no one wants to stop watching until each child has had an equal number of picks.
Is this just because TV is still a novelty, having been restricted before (it used to only go on at 4pm ish when I would make tea)? Or am I approching it wrong, trying to make it fair and equal what they get to watch?
I'm reading "Winning Parent Winning Child" by Jan Fortune, a UK radical unschooler, and she writes "the notion of fairness promotes a climate of sibling rivalry in which children are constantly watching one another and their parents for signals of unfairness or favour... When we treat each child as a unique and independent person, we have to abandon any allegiance to mechanical rules."
There's a similar set up with sweets- if someone asks I will get a big packet with the weekly shop and split it into "sweetie jars" with their name on, which they can then help themselves to any time. It seems to be working quite well, but again is based (I think) on principles of fairness, equality, treating them all the same.
How would a seasoned unschooler approach this? Would love some help with thinking it through. Thank you.
Clare
But I'm not sure if I'm getting it quite right yet. A system has evolved for watching tv: one child asks for it on, they all sit down and take turns in choosing what to watch (Netflix, DVDs etc - no live channels due to finances).
It's not quite as harmonious as I would like! There are arguments over whose turn it is (my son, 6, gets very upset if he doesn't get to pick first), and no one wants to stop watching until each child has had an equal number of picks.
Is this just because TV is still a novelty, having been restricted before (it used to only go on at 4pm ish when I would make tea)? Or am I approching it wrong, trying to make it fair and equal what they get to watch?
I'm reading "Winning Parent Winning Child" by Jan Fortune, a UK radical unschooler, and she writes "the notion of fairness promotes a climate of sibling rivalry in which children are constantly watching one another and their parents for signals of unfairness or favour... When we treat each child as a unique and independent person, we have to abandon any allegiance to mechanical rules."
There's a similar set up with sweets- if someone asks I will get a big packet with the weekly shop and split it into "sweetie jars" with their name on, which they can then help themselves to any time. It seems to be working quite well, but again is based (I think) on principles of fairness, equality, treating them all the same.
How would a seasoned unschooler approach this? Would love some help with thinking it through. Thank you.
Clare
Jenny Cyphers
***There's a similar set up with sweets- if someone asks I will get a big packet with the weekly shop and split it into "sweetie jars" with their name on, which they can then help themselves to any time. It seems to be working quite well, but again is based (I think) on principles of fairness, equality, treating them all the same.***
For the most part, a system like that doesn't work in our house. Food is freely open to all members of the house. Occasionally, we get something specifically requested by one or both kids and those items are set aside for the particular people that wanted them. It doesn't mean that those items don't get shared, it means that it is shared at the discretion of the owner.
The only item we ever parsed out were fudgesicles. We only did that because no matter how many boxes of them we bought, one kid would always eat most of them and everyone else would be a bit sad when they'd go to the freezer to get one and they'd all be gone. So, since she was little, we'd give her an allotment of them and then we'd all graciously give her extra when she asked for more. That made her feel like she was getting more. It was a system that worked. It's not something I would recommend for most things though.
As far as the TV watching, I'd be inclined to put something on myself and let them watch. When it's over ask for suggestions if they want something more. A 2 yr old might be less inclined to want something specific but will learn very quickly that it's the way to do it if there is turn taking. As they get older, you might want more TV's so that they can watch their own things separate and away from siblings that aren't interested. My kids are 7 yrs apart so that was more so early on!
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For the most part, a system like that doesn't work in our house. Food is freely open to all members of the house. Occasionally, we get something specifically requested by one or both kids and those items are set aside for the particular people that wanted them. It doesn't mean that those items don't get shared, it means that it is shared at the discretion of the owner.
The only item we ever parsed out were fudgesicles. We only did that because no matter how many boxes of them we bought, one kid would always eat most of them and everyone else would be a bit sad when they'd go to the freezer to get one and they'd all be gone. So, since she was little, we'd give her an allotment of them and then we'd all graciously give her extra when she asked for more. That made her feel like she was getting more. It was a system that worked. It's not something I would recommend for most things though.
As far as the TV watching, I'd be inclined to put something on myself and let them watch. When it's over ask for suggestions if they want something more. A 2 yr old might be less inclined to want something specific but will learn very quickly that it's the way to do it if there is turn taking. As they get older, you might want more TV's so that they can watch their own things separate and away from siblings that aren't interested. My kids are 7 yrs apart so that was more so early on!
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Meredith
"Clare" <cmccaughren@...> wrote:
Time to get another tv. For that matter, do you have a tv as well as a computer? Someone can watch on the computer while someone else watches on the tv.
When a favorite resource is shared by too many people, that's a kind of limit - a "natural" limit, but people respond to limits the same way whether they're natural or imposed. If you can find a way to create a sense of "enough" rather than limitation, it will help your kids make choices using a broader range of criteria.
It only does so when someone perceives a sense of limitation - the problem with "fair" is that it's Subjective. If everyone is feeling like he or she has enough, issues of fairness drop by the wayside - so focus on whether or not kids are getting enough of what they want, and looking for ways to help them feel "full". If that happens to be equal amounts, that's not a bad thing.
For now! It may continue to work, but kids change so what works right now my not work the same way in a week or month or year, and then you can look for another option or set of options. In the meantime, don't make a rule in your head about fairness. Instead, look at your kids and see what their needs and interests and desires are and how you can give them a sense of abundance.
---Meredith
>> It's not quite as harmonious as I would like! There are arguments over whose turn it is (my son, 6, gets very upset if he doesn't get to pick first), and no one wants to stop watching until each child has had an equal number of picks.***************
Time to get another tv. For that matter, do you have a tv as well as a computer? Someone can watch on the computer while someone else watches on the tv.
When a favorite resource is shared by too many people, that's a kind of limit - a "natural" limit, but people respond to limits the same way whether they're natural or imposed. If you can find a way to create a sense of "enough" rather than limitation, it will help your kids make choices using a broader range of criteria.
>> Jan Fortune, a UK radical unschooler, and she writes "the notion of fairness promotes a climate of sibling rivalry in which children are constantly watching one another and their parents for signals of unfairness or favour...***************
It only does so when someone perceives a sense of limitation - the problem with "fair" is that it's Subjective. If everyone is feeling like he or she has enough, issues of fairness drop by the wayside - so focus on whether or not kids are getting enough of what they want, and looking for ways to help them feel "full". If that happens to be equal amounts, that's not a bad thing.
> There's a similar set up with sweets- if someone asks I will get a big packet with the weekly shop and split it into "sweetie jars" with their name on, which they can then help themselves to any time. It seems to be working quite well**************
For now! It may continue to work, but kids change so what works right now my not work the same way in a week or month or year, and then you can look for another option or set of options. In the meantime, don't make a rule in your head about fairness. Instead, look at your kids and see what their needs and interests and desires are and how you can give them a sense of abundance.
---Meredith
Clare
Hi, thanks for your responses.
****The only item we ever parsed out were fudgesicles. We only did that because no matter how many boxes of them we bought, one kid would always eat most of them and everyone else would be a bit sad when they'd go to the freezer to get one and they'd all be gone.****
With my son, if the sweets are communal he will just eat and eat (like DH!), whereas my girls only want one every so often, and then there are none left. If the sweets have his name on, I think maybe that makes him feel more secure and he will spread them out, only eating a couple a day as he knows they won't be gone. I *think*, anyway. I will bear in mind what Meredith said about things changing.
Thanks for the advice with tv as well. We didn't "take turns" today - one watched the telly and if the others wanted something else there was the iPad or the computer. It made a *big* difference, thank you. It also helped me realise something - I wanted to use the telly to try and teach them how to take turns and share - I think that was definitely me forcing that on them, when all the time there were other options.
Meredith, I loved the words you used - enough, full, abundance. I will def concentrate on that for the moment, rather than fair, equal, sharing.
****In the meantime, don't make a rule in your head about fairness. Instead, look at your kids and see what their needs and interests and desires are and how you can give them a sense of abundance.****
Thanks again,
Clare
****The only item we ever parsed out were fudgesicles. We only did that because no matter how many boxes of them we bought, one kid would always eat most of them and everyone else would be a bit sad when they'd go to the freezer to get one and they'd all be gone.****
With my son, if the sweets are communal he will just eat and eat (like DH!), whereas my girls only want one every so often, and then there are none left. If the sweets have his name on, I think maybe that makes him feel more secure and he will spread them out, only eating a couple a day as he knows they won't be gone. I *think*, anyway. I will bear in mind what Meredith said about things changing.
Thanks for the advice with tv as well. We didn't "take turns" today - one watched the telly and if the others wanted something else there was the iPad or the computer. It made a *big* difference, thank you. It also helped me realise something - I wanted to use the telly to try and teach them how to take turns and share - I think that was definitely me forcing that on them, when all the time there were other options.
Meredith, I loved the words you used - enough, full, abundance. I will def concentrate on that for the moment, rather than fair, equal, sharing.
****In the meantime, don't make a rule in your head about fairness. Instead, look at your kids and see what their needs and interests and desires are and how you can give them a sense of abundance.****
Thanks again,
Clare