Help..... Sinking and scared because of silly assessment
sebrina w
I recently wrote to the group about my 12 year old son possibly having dyslexia and teaching him to read. He really wants to learn and because I have dyslexia myself I didn't know where to start so I contacted a local tutor who specializes in dyslexia assessment and tutoring. I felt as though I had found the right person to help when she told she homeschooled her 4 children. Anyways we took Ryan for an assessment (which by the way he really wanted to do) and she scared the crap out of me. She said he was at a preschool to kindergarten level so it was hard to diagnose dyslexia. He knows most of his letters (always forgets H) but doesn't really know all the sounds they make, he knows some whole words mostly learned from video games. She asked him things like months of the year in order which he didn't know... At the end of the assessment she told me I should take him to the sick kids hospital because she was worried he was brain damaged. I left the office in tears. But my son wants to go forward with tutoring with her and he really likes her.
I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son. Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? She said it would be harder to teach him since he's so old but that goes against what I believe which is its easier when they are ready even if they are older. I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.
Thanks for any advise.
I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son. Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? She said it would be harder to teach him since he's so old but that goes against what I believe which is its easier when they are ready even if they are older. I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.
Thanks for any advise.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
And why does he need to know the sounds of the letters to be able to read?
That is a serious question!!!|
My son is 10 and while he was reading pretty fluently sometimes when he was 6 I think that if you ask him what the sounds of the letters are he is going to look at you stumped! He will however read fluently and impressively fast. He also types fast and has a nice hand writting but rarely writes with a pen.
I do not think he knows all the months in order but that will come. He does know how to use a Calendar so he can look up.
He does know how to look up stuff.
There are kids that graduate from High School , even in Special Ed classes that graduate and cannot read.
Read this:
http://sandradodd.com/r/mikedyslexia%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/reading%c2%a0
And this from Myths too many Parents Believe:
"Children who can't read by the time they're eight will never catch up.
Schools operate to make that true, but in the real world (where so many children unfortunately are prevented from being), it's not a bit true.
Reading
________________________________
This quote came from a discussion on MySpace and was sent to me by one of the participants (not by the author). People do believe these things, though, and it's just not so.
With dyslexia you HAVE to be trained in how to get past it. this isnt just some person that could read at some point. if he isnt trained HOW to see letters in groups that form words he never will be able to do it and it will ALWAYS be frustrating for him. since neither of you are very aware of dyslexia I am going to tell you that some of the unschooling pracitces just do not apply to dyslexics. the whole concept of not insisting they do things doesnt work. people with dyslexia are forced to do these types of eye and mind training so that at some point things suddenly get easier for them."
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: sebrina w <sunmamma@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 3:43 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Help..... Sinking and scared because of silly assessment
I recently wrote to the group about my 12 year old son possibly having dyslexia and teaching him to read. He really wants to learn and because I have dyslexia myself I didn't know where to start so I contacted a local tutor who specializes in dyslexia assessment and tutoring. I felt as though I had found the right person to help when she told she homeschooled her 4 children. Anyways we took Ryan for an assessment (which by the way he really wanted to do) and she scared the crap out of me. She said he was at a preschool to kindergarten level so it was hard to diagnose dyslexia. He knows most of his letters (always forgets H) but doesn't really know all the sounds they make, he knows some whole words mostly learned from video games. She asked him things like months of the year in order which he didn't know... At the end of the assessment she told me I should take him to the sick kids hospital because she was worried he was brain damaged. I left the office
in tears. But my son wants to go forward with tutoring with her and he really likes her.
I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son. Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? She said it would be harder to teach him since he's so old but that goes against what I believe which is its easier when they are ready even if they are older. I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.
Thanks for any advise.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is a serious question!!!|
My son is 10 and while he was reading pretty fluently sometimes when he was 6 I think that if you ask him what the sounds of the letters are he is going to look at you stumped! He will however read fluently and impressively fast. He also types fast and has a nice hand writting but rarely writes with a pen.
I do not think he knows all the months in order but that will come. He does know how to use a Calendar so he can look up.
He does know how to look up stuff.
There are kids that graduate from High School , even in Special Ed classes that graduate and cannot read.
Read this:
http://sandradodd.com/r/mikedyslexia%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/reading%c2%a0
And this from Myths too many Parents Believe:
"Children who can't read by the time they're eight will never catch up.
Schools operate to make that true, but in the real world (where so many children unfortunately are prevented from being), it's not a bit true.
Reading
________________________________
This quote came from a discussion on MySpace and was sent to me by one of the participants (not by the author). People do believe these things, though, and it's just not so.
With dyslexia you HAVE to be trained in how to get past it. this isnt just some person that could read at some point. if he isnt trained HOW to see letters in groups that form words he never will be able to do it and it will ALWAYS be frustrating for him. since neither of you are very aware of dyslexia I am going to tell you that some of the unschooling pracitces just do not apply to dyslexics. the whole concept of not insisting they do things doesnt work. people with dyslexia are forced to do these types of eye and mind training so that at some point things suddenly get easier for them."
>FRom this page:
>http://sandradodd.com/myths%c2%a0
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: sebrina w <sunmamma@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 3:43 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Help..... Sinking and scared because of silly assessment
I recently wrote to the group about my 12 year old son possibly having dyslexia and teaching him to read. He really wants to learn and because I have dyslexia myself I didn't know where to start so I contacted a local tutor who specializes in dyslexia assessment and tutoring. I felt as though I had found the right person to help when she told she homeschooled her 4 children. Anyways we took Ryan for an assessment (which by the way he really wanted to do) and she scared the crap out of me. She said he was at a preschool to kindergarten level so it was hard to diagnose dyslexia. He knows most of his letters (always forgets H) but doesn't really know all the sounds they make, he knows some whole words mostly learned from video games. She asked him things like months of the year in order which he didn't know... At the end of the assessment she told me I should take him to the sick kids hospital because she was worried he was brain damaged. I left the office
in tears. But my son wants to go forward with tutoring with her and he really likes her.
I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son. Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? She said it would be harder to teach him since he's so old but that goes against what I believe which is its easier when they are ready even if they are older. I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.
Thanks for any advise.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son. Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? -=-
I think you should have found songs about the months in order, or played games about them.
Same with letter sounds, or played around with words. If you tried and he didn't understand it at all, then maybe the tutor has a point. But if you never even tried, maybe you could now--as games, somehow. Flashcards, a puzzle, something so he gets the idea that there are twelve months in a certain order.
If he's not opposed to music, there are months names and letter sounds both on this:
http://www.barbaramilne.com/94/
We used to have it in the van sometimes, and sometimes listent to it for going to sleep. All the songs are slow, and good for soothing, quiet times.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think you should have found songs about the months in order, or played games about them.
Same with letter sounds, or played around with words. If you tried and he didn't understand it at all, then maybe the tutor has a point. But if you never even tried, maybe you could now--as games, somehow. Flashcards, a puzzle, something so he gets the idea that there are twelve months in a certain order.
If he's not opposed to music, there are months names and letter sounds both on this:
http://www.barbaramilne.com/94/
We used to have it in the van sometimes, and sometimes listent to it for going to sleep. All the songs are slow, and good for soothing, quiet times.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-And why does he need to know the sounds of the letters to be able to read?
That is a serious question!!!|-=-
But if he can't read, and he doesn't know the letter sounds, the mother could be in trouble with the authorities.
And if he wants help, and the mother hasn't been able to help him and is asking us for ideas, I think we should offer ideas, not just say "never mind."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is a serious question!!!|-=-
But if he can't read, and he doesn't know the letter sounds, the mother could be in trouble with the authorities.
And if he wants help, and the mother hasn't been able to help him and is asking us for ideas, I think we should offer ideas, not just say "never mind."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sebrina w
We have tried two programs to teach him to read. "reading reflex" and "teach your child to read in 100 lessons" He always gets frustrated and says he wants to stop and then comes back a few months later and wants to try again. We've also tried "time for learning" which is an online program and some starfall. All three of his younger siblings can read, they are 10, 8 and 5.
We tried music when he was younger but he got very agitated by it and we had to turn it off.
Sebrina
We tried music when he was younger but he got very agitated by it and we had to turn it off.
Sebrina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-And why does he need to know the sounds of the letters to be able to read?
> That is a serious question!!!|-=-
>
> But if he can't read, and he doesn't know the letter sounds, the mother could be in trouble with the authorities.
> And if he wants help, and the mother hasn't been able to help him and is asking us for ideas, I think we should offer ideas, not just say "never mind."
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pam Sorooshian
The testing person saying he is at preschool level doesn't mean anything
you didn't know. It means she just tested what he knows and he doesn't know
how to read at all - like a typical preschool age kid (and many many older
kids).
I don't think it should terrify you that he doesn't know letter sounds at
12 - it is later than most kids, but not later than any I've ever heard of
who end up reading just fine.
If he was 6, we'd tell you to soothe him and distract him because trying to
help a 6 yo learn to read when the child's brain is just not ready is
frustrating for the child and can make learning even harder.
But at 12 and already tested and diagnosed, this poor guy already must feel
really bad about himself, so reassure him that we have told you that we
know kids who were not able to read at 12 and were reading up a storm a
year or a few years later. And if he feels that he wants some kind of
instruction or program, I wouldn't act like it is necessary at all, but I'd
let him give it a try if I could find something that seemed appropriate for
him.
But a big word of warning --- he's clearly NOT a person who is naturally
learning in an auditory way - he's not picking up the sounds of letters
from seeing them all over and hearing people read them, etc., and that's a
key indication that he is probably not much of an auditory learner. He's
probably a very visual/spatial and/or kinesthetic learner. So when I say
"help him learn to read" I do NOT mean start him on some kind of phonics
program. That is NOT the only way - even though it seems to be the only way
reading specialists and school teachers recognize these days.
Do some research on visual/spatial and kinesthetic learners and see if you
can figure out ways to help him begin to recognize words.
My youngest daughter who is a very athletic and active person (still is at
21) didn't naturally learn phonics and didn't know all the letter sounds
when she began reading at 8 - but she began reading by being able to
recognize words, not sound them out. I used to write words on a card -
action words like "jump" and "sit" and "bend" -- I'd hold them up and she'd
do them. If she didn't recognize the word then I would do it and she'd join
me. I started with two words - "Jump" and "Stop." Then slowly added words
to the little stack of cards - slipping in a new one every so often. I
didn't slip in any until she knew the existing ones well. This was
something we did for maybe 5 minutes or less every once in a while - not as
a program but just for fun. But my point is that there are other ways to
learn to read than by learning letter sounds - and another approach like
that might help your son.
Do some research on how visual/spatial and kinesthetic kids learn to read.
Maybe there is a computer program out there that he might enjoy and would
take more of a sight reading approach or at least a combined phonics/sight
reading approach. Also you might look at the "adult literacy" sites for
ideas.
But don't get freaked out because some reading specialist type was so
negative - remember that she's looking at school kids and if a 12 yo school
kid is not reading that is a pretty big disaster for that kid and a major
failure for the school. For an unschooler, it isn't that big a deal. So
help him learn, yes, but don't act like there is something wrong with him -
pay way more attention to what he does well than what he doesn't yet do.
-pam sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you didn't know. It means she just tested what he knows and he doesn't know
how to read at all - like a typical preschool age kid (and many many older
kids).
I don't think it should terrify you that he doesn't know letter sounds at
12 - it is later than most kids, but not later than any I've ever heard of
who end up reading just fine.
If he was 6, we'd tell you to soothe him and distract him because trying to
help a 6 yo learn to read when the child's brain is just not ready is
frustrating for the child and can make learning even harder.
But at 12 and already tested and diagnosed, this poor guy already must feel
really bad about himself, so reassure him that we have told you that we
know kids who were not able to read at 12 and were reading up a storm a
year or a few years later. And if he feels that he wants some kind of
instruction or program, I wouldn't act like it is necessary at all, but I'd
let him give it a try if I could find something that seemed appropriate for
him.
But a big word of warning --- he's clearly NOT a person who is naturally
learning in an auditory way - he's not picking up the sounds of letters
from seeing them all over and hearing people read them, etc., and that's a
key indication that he is probably not much of an auditory learner. He's
probably a very visual/spatial and/or kinesthetic learner. So when I say
"help him learn to read" I do NOT mean start him on some kind of phonics
program. That is NOT the only way - even though it seems to be the only way
reading specialists and school teachers recognize these days.
Do some research on visual/spatial and kinesthetic learners and see if you
can figure out ways to help him begin to recognize words.
My youngest daughter who is a very athletic and active person (still is at
21) didn't naturally learn phonics and didn't know all the letter sounds
when she began reading at 8 - but she began reading by being able to
recognize words, not sound them out. I used to write words on a card -
action words like "jump" and "sit" and "bend" -- I'd hold them up and she'd
do them. If she didn't recognize the word then I would do it and she'd join
me. I started with two words - "Jump" and "Stop." Then slowly added words
to the little stack of cards - slipping in a new one every so often. I
didn't slip in any until she knew the existing ones well. This was
something we did for maybe 5 minutes or less every once in a while - not as
a program but just for fun. But my point is that there are other ways to
learn to read than by learning letter sounds - and another approach like
that might help your son.
Do some research on how visual/spatial and kinesthetic kids learn to read.
Maybe there is a computer program out there that he might enjoy and would
take more of a sight reading approach or at least a combined phonics/sight
reading approach. Also you might look at the "adult literacy" sites for
ideas.
But don't get freaked out because some reading specialist type was so
negative - remember that she's looking at school kids and if a 12 yo school
kid is not reading that is a pretty big disaster for that kid and a major
failure for the school. For an unschooler, it isn't that big a deal. So
help him learn, yes, but don't act like there is something wrong with him -
pay way more attention to what he does well than what he doesn't yet do.
-pam sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons is possibly the worst program
every invented - it is a torture device. Seriously. Poor guy. I don't know
the other one.
Lay off the extreme phonics approaches and find something that is aimed
more at visual/spatial learners rather than auditory learners. Play to his
strengths!
Maybe take a look at the materials and research on the Lindamood-Bell
learning centers website. Or look at the learning styles stuff on Mariaemma
Willis website.
every invented - it is a torture device. Seriously. Poor guy. I don't know
the other one.
Lay off the extreme phonics approaches and find something that is aimed
more at visual/spatial learners rather than auditory learners. Play to his
strengths!
Maybe take a look at the materials and research on the Lindamood-Bell
learning centers website. Or look at the learning styles stuff on Mariaemma
Willis website.
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, sebrina w <sunmamma@...> wrote:
> We have tried two programs to teach him to read. "reading reflex" and
> "teach your child to read in 100 lessons" He always gets frustrated and
> says he wants to stop and then comes back a few months later and wants to
> try again.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"sebrina w" <sunmamma@...> wrote:
Maybe there is. It's kind of hard for complete strangers over the internet to know for certain! Mostly I think you're feeling out of your depth and floundering and that's not helping your son. You need better resources and you don't seem to have much confidence in your own abilities. That's not a good set up for unschooling.
Given that, it might be a good idea to get an assessment by someone who actually knows something about development and learning and knows that those things don't necessarily "track" with grade levels. It might be tricky to find someone like that... someone who works with "gifted" kids could be a good bet, since they'll be used to the idea of asynchronous development and not automatically jump to the conclusion such a thing is bad.
But it's entirely possible he's not ready to read, and That's what's "wrong" with him. If that's the case, lessons won't help.
If you want to help your son directly, go back and read the whole previous thread, which starts here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67992
There's useful information and good advice in that thread as to how you can help in a number of different ways.
How does she plan on tutoring him? Can she tutor Both of you so that you can feel more confident about helping him at home? Can you pay by the session so your son can decide to stop after a few weeks if it's not "working" by then? If he's ready to read, in a few weeks there will be a marked difference in how well he reads - and if not, there's no point in continuing.
If her plans involve phonics, don't do it. Seriously, later readers almost invariably have trouble with phonics - as in they can't make use of letter-sound correspondences to decode until After they've learned to read.
---Meredith
>> I guess my question is do you think there IS something wrong with my son.*****************
Maybe there is. It's kind of hard for complete strangers over the internet to know for certain! Mostly I think you're feeling out of your depth and floundering and that's not helping your son. You need better resources and you don't seem to have much confidence in your own abilities. That's not a good set up for unschooling.
Given that, it might be a good idea to get an assessment by someone who actually knows something about development and learning and knows that those things don't necessarily "track" with grade levels. It might be tricky to find someone like that... someone who works with "gifted" kids could be a good bet, since they'll be used to the idea of asynchronous development and not automatically jump to the conclusion such a thing is bad.
But it's entirely possible he's not ready to read, and That's what's "wrong" with him. If that's the case, lessons won't help.
If you want to help your son directly, go back and read the whole previous thread, which starts here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/67992
There's useful information and good advice in that thread as to how you can help in a number of different ways.
>>I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.**************
How does she plan on tutoring him? Can she tutor Both of you so that you can feel more confident about helping him at home? Can you pay by the session so your son can decide to stop after a few weeks if it's not "working" by then? If he's ready to read, in a few weeks there will be a marked difference in how well he reads - and if not, there's no point in continuing.
If her plans involve phonics, don't do it. Seriously, later readers almost invariably have trouble with phonics - as in they can't make use of letter-sound correspondences to decode until After they've learned to read.
---Meredith
Meredith
Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Another way some people like to read is by creating their own short stories and reading those. Mom does the writing or typing at first and they read the story together. Even for a kid who isn't ready to read, he can memorize a short story and build up some confidence in his ability that way. He'll learn more about literacy in the process, even if he doesn't read per se.
---Meredith
> I used to write words on a card -Really social people sometimes like to start with names and some people find it easier to start with phrases and short sentences - think about meaningful units. "On the table" is more meaningful than "on" or "the" so it's easier for some people to read the phrase than the individual words, even when you change out the preposition: "under the table". You can also make prefix and suffix cards and play around with those and how they change meanings.
> action words like "jump" and "sit" and "bend" -- I'd hold them up and she'd
> do them.
Another way some people like to read is by creating their own short stories and reading those. Mom does the writing or typing at first and they read the story together. Even for a kid who isn't ready to read, he can memorize a short story and build up some confidence in his ability that way. He'll learn more about literacy in the process, even if he doesn't read per se.
---Meredith
Pam Sorooshian
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Meredith <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
about different kinds of learners and if you are going to get him outside
help, they might be a good place to start.
Again, this isn't intended as general advice for everyone - I have know 12
year olds who don't read and they are just fine and dandy and they usually
learn to read pretty soon after that in their own way and their own time.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Given that, it might be a good idea to get an assessment by someone whoCheck out the Lindamood-Bell learning centers - read some of their website
> actually knows something about development and learning and knows that
> those things don't necessarily "track" with grade levels. It might be
> tricky to find someone like that... someone who works with "gifted" kids
> could be a good bet, since they'll be used to the idea of asynchronous
> development and not automatically jump to the conclusion such a thing is
> bad.
about different kinds of learners and if you are going to get him outside
help, they might be a good place to start.
Again, this isn't intended as general advice for everyone - I have know 12
year olds who don't read and they are just fine and dandy and they usually
learn to read pretty soon after that in their own way and their own time.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sebrina w
> How does she plan on tutoring him? Can she tutor Both of you so thatyou can feel more confident about helping him at home? Can you pay by
the session so your son can decide to stop after a few weeks if it's not
"working" by then? If he's ready to read, in a few weeks there will be a
marked difference in how well he reads - and if not, there's no point in
continuing.
She plans on using the Orton Gillingham method which she said is a multi
sensory method? I need to research more about that. Yes she can tutor
both of us and she said she will give me some help to help him in
between session. I do pay by the session so I can stop anytime.
>almost invariably have trouble with phonics - as in they can't make use
> If her plans involve phonics, don't do it. Seriously, later readers
of letter-sound correspondences to decode until After they've learned to
read.
a quick google search turned this
uphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orton-GillinghamShe basically said she
would start at the very beginning, going through one letter at a time,
teaching him to print each one and the sound each one makes. She did a
bit with him today and he was very open to it, they used some clay to
form the letter I and she got him a special pencil to write with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***She asked him things like months of the year in order which he didn't know... At the end of the assessment she told me I should take him to the sick kids hospital because she was worried he was brain damaged.***
If I knew an "expert" that used the phrase "sick kids hospital", I might lose all respect for them. I guess, the real question is whether YOU think he has brain damage. If your kid is just fine in all other aspects of life then I'd be willing to bet that he isn't at all brain damaged but simply isn't able to read yet. Dyslexia, as far as I know, isn't caused by brain damage. Lots of kids don't keep track of time either, however having calendars around and visible is very useful.
***Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? ***
My oldest daughter is 18. She had signed up for a GED program at the local community college and opted out of it shortly after because everything was hand written and she doesn't do that well or quickly. Next year it will all be computer. If it was that way now, she likely would have stayed in the program. She can write but it's slow. She spells great, has excellent grammar and knows how to write. She learned to read at 11. It was slow in leading up to that ability and phonics didn't make sense at all to her. She gets phonics now that she already knows how to read but it took a while of reading before it made sense. She also would have been diagnosed with dyslexia and still, if asked to physically write something, will get letters and numbers backwards. Most of the ones she consistently switched around, she remembers now, but there are still moments she gets it wrong.
Being interested in anime and manga, playing video games, using the keyboard online, and texting all helped her learn how to read and write.
***I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.***
How many choices have you given him? If he sees his choice as doing a reading program at home or going to a specialized tutor, I could see how he might choose the tutor. I remember when my daughter really wanted to know how to read and couldn't. There was no amount of specialized programs that could have helped her with it. My main focus was on alleviating any frustration she had. I played video games with her and read the parts for her. We listened to so many books on tape and CD's that I couldn't even list them all. She was "well read" in that way, so it helped when other people talked about books, she could jump right into the conversation in a meaningful way. I reminded her of the words she DID know and what she COULD read.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If I knew an "expert" that used the phrase "sick kids hospital", I might lose all respect for them. I guess, the real question is whether YOU think he has brain damage. If your kid is just fine in all other aspects of life then I'd be willing to bet that he isn't at all brain damaged but simply isn't able to read yet. Dyslexia, as far as I know, isn't caused by brain damage. Lots of kids don't keep track of time either, however having calendars around and visible is very useful.
***Is it so bad that he can't print (he hates to hold a pencil) and he doesn't know all the sounds the letters make at 12? ***
My oldest daughter is 18. She had signed up for a GED program at the local community college and opted out of it shortly after because everything was hand written and she doesn't do that well or quickly. Next year it will all be computer. If it was that way now, she likely would have stayed in the program. She can write but it's slow. She spells great, has excellent grammar and knows how to write. She learned to read at 11. It was slow in leading up to that ability and phonics didn't make sense at all to her. She gets phonics now that she already knows how to read but it took a while of reading before it made sense. She also would have been diagnosed with dyslexia and still, if asked to physically write something, will get letters and numbers backwards. Most of the ones she consistently switched around, she remembers now, but there are still moments she gets it wrong.
Being interested in anime and manga, playing video games, using the keyboard online, and texting all helped her learn how to read and write.
***I don't know if I should continue with the tutoring. Like I said my son does want to do it.***
How many choices have you given him? If he sees his choice as doing a reading program at home or going to a specialized tutor, I could see how he might choose the tutor. I remember when my daughter really wanted to know how to read and couldn't. There was no amount of specialized programs that could have helped her with it. My main focus was on alleviating any frustration she had. I played video games with her and read the parts for her. We listened to so many books on tape and CD's that I couldn't even list them all. She was "well read" in that way, so it helped when other people talked about books, she could jump right into the conversation in a meaningful way. I reminded her of the words she DID know and what she COULD read.
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mitrisue
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
<<But a big word of warning --- he's clearly NOT a person who is naturally learning in an auditory way - he's not picking up the sounds of letters from seeing them all over and hearing people read them, etc., and that's a key indication that he is probably not much of an auditory learner. He's probably a very visual/spatial and/or kinesthetic learner.>>
Something I've noticed about my son (7) is that knowledge is there when he needs it, but not necessarily there in the presence of someone who is questioning him to decide whether or not he is good enough. There are many topics that, when directly questioned about them in a deciding-are-you-okay way, he'll "know" nothing about. But then I see his awareness of that information peeping out in various ways later.
This tendency of his has caused me to question the adult habit of deciding about kids based on their responses to a few questions. One assumption threaded through this conversation is that because the kid in question didn't produce the correct answers when asked in a we're-deciding-about-you situation, that he doesn't "know" or have access to that information. In my son's case, his information flow pretty much dries up when a situation feels off. This has caused me to redefine the idea of knowing. Now I tend to think of it more as information accessibility and flow.
It's certainly not easy making space for kids like this in a world where adults just want kids to regurgitate and to hold information in readiness to please others, especially as they get older, but it's also fascinating to see how information comes when it is needed, and not when it's truly not, especially in situations where adults are attempting to make decisions about who and what kids are.
Julie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 13, 2012, at 4:43 PM, sebrina w wrote:
You could put up calendars and make a point to refer to them regularly, like discussing plans for the upcoming week and month at the beginning of each. If you're planning something in say September, count ahead out loud "July, August, September, so less than 3 months." Get the information swirling around him.
You could check YouTube to see if he favorite cartoon or game character has done a song for the months of the year and show it to him because of the character rather than because of the months. The problem with most learning songs is they're geared to the tastes of little kids.
Joyce
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> She asked him things like months of the year in order which he didn't knowKat didn't know the months of the year or days of the weeks until mid teens maybe. For home schooled kids all the days blend together so it's not information that sticks naturally until they're older and are thinking about time in more adult terms.
You could put up calendars and make a point to refer to them regularly, like discussing plans for the upcoming week and month at the beginning of each. If you're planning something in say September, count ahead out loud "July, August, September, so less than 3 months." Get the information swirling around him.
You could check YouTube to see if he favorite cartoon or game character has done a song for the months of the year and show it to him because of the character rather than because of the months. The problem with most learning songs is they're geared to the tastes of little kids.
> At the end of the assessment she told me I should take him to the sick kids hospital because she was worried he was brain damaged.I would be concerned that since she sees him like that that he'll pick up on it.
> But my son wants to go forward with tutoring with her and he really likes her.I would give him other options so he can choose. Right now he's picking her for what he believes she can do for him. If he only has her or nothing, that's not a real choice.
Joyce
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folkymom
Pam said:
~Kelli
>Lay off the extreme phonics approaches and find something that is aimedThe book "Games for Learning" by Peggy Kaye has some great ideas for more kinetic or visual learners. Once you read through her ideas, you may be able to create similar games tailored to your particular child's interests. I find that I very often take other people's ideas and then immediately change them to suit me better. . .like recipes, not every ingredient is going to be palatable to you or your child, so feel free to read someone else's recipe, and then go wild and add chocolate! ;)
>more at visual/spatial learners rather than auditory learners. Play to his
>strengths!
~Kelli
Sandra Dodd
-=-basically said she
would start at the very beginning, going through one letter at a time,
teaching him to print each one and the sound each one makes. She did a
bit with him today and he was very open to it, they used some clay to
form the letter I and she got him a special pencil to write with.-=-
If he's enjoying it, I don't think it can hurt. Honestly, with three younger siblings "ahead," his self esteem can't be in the cheery/hopeful range.
If you feel like sharing more, I have a question below.
If you don't feel like sharing about it, just ignore this like I didn't even ask.
Is he a biologicall full sibling of the other three? Is he by another father, or adopted? Or did he suffer trauma pre-utero, in infancey or early childhood?
If yes to any of that, it's even more reason to avoid comparisons, and whether it's yes or no, intervention that he welcomes into his life is something special for him, and whether it "helps" (whether he quickly learns to read) or not, you'll know more, and he'll have another adult in his life, which is sometimes nice.
Sandra
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would start at the very beginning, going through one letter at a time,
teaching him to print each one and the sound each one makes. She did a
bit with him today and he was very open to it, they used some clay to
form the letter I and she got him a special pencil to write with.-=-
If he's enjoying it, I don't think it can hurt. Honestly, with three younger siblings "ahead," his self esteem can't be in the cheery/hopeful range.
If you feel like sharing more, I have a question below.
If you don't feel like sharing about it, just ignore this like I didn't even ask.
Is he a biologicall full sibling of the other three? Is he by another father, or adopted? Or did he suffer trauma pre-utero, in infancey or early childhood?
If yes to any of that, it's even more reason to avoid comparisons, and whether it's yes or no, intervention that he welcomes into his life is something special for him, and whether it "helps" (whether he quickly learns to read) or not, you'll know more, and he'll have another adult in his life, which is sometimes nice.
Sandra
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sebrina w
> Is he a biologicall full sibling of the other three? Is he by another father, or adopted? Or did he suffer trauma pre-utero, in infancey or early childhood?**** Yes he is a full biological child to me and my husband and a full sibling to both of the boys, my daughter is adopted from Ethiopia. He did have a traumatic birth (4 hours of the pushing stage and then they used a vacuum to get him out) He also had a bad reaction to the vaccines we used up until his MMR at 18 months at which point he had several seizures following it and was never vaccinated again) ******
>
> If yes to any of that, it's even more reason to avoid comparisons, and whether it's yes or no, intervention that he welcomes into his life is something special for him, and whether it "helps" (whether he quickly learns to read) or not, you'll know more, and he'll have another adult in his life, which is sometimes nice.
>
Sebrina
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
It depends on the teacher at this point - the approach she's using is a kind of "whole language" method, and those "work" by being accessible to a variety of learning styles. As long as she's skillful and adaptable rather than systematic, she's well set up to provide him with a framework which will be helpful once he's actually ready to read. The method she's using is said to be very systematic, though, so if she won't allow him to "advance" until he's master earlier stages, it could undermine his ability to read. That's the worst thing about reading education - it can actually keep people from learning to read, if it's done badly.
If having a tutor helps this guy build some confidence, that's a good thing. And with luck, he'll be ready to read soon anyway.
---Meredith
>> If he's enjoying it, I don't think it can hurt.It can hurt, if he gets the idea that in order to learn to read he needs to "sound things out" and he's unable to do that. It's a common problem among semi-literate adults - they went through school with phonics training at every turn and are convinced that's the way to learn to read. Once they're assured that the Worst thing they can do is sound things out, that they were taught wrong, they learn to read pretty quickly.
It depends on the teacher at this point - the approach she's using is a kind of "whole language" method, and those "work" by being accessible to a variety of learning styles. As long as she's skillful and adaptable rather than systematic, she's well set up to provide him with a framework which will be helpful once he's actually ready to read. The method she's using is said to be very systematic, though, so if she won't allow him to "advance" until he's master earlier stages, it could undermine his ability to read. That's the worst thing about reading education - it can actually keep people from learning to read, if it's done badly.
If having a tutor helps this guy build some confidence, that's a good thing. And with luck, he'll be ready to read soon anyway.
---Meredith
Pam Sorooshian
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Meredith <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
plus.
I wouldn't be down on the tutor if she hadn't said that awful thing about
brain damage - that was so ignorant that it is hard to believe she will be
good for him to be around.
I'd hope that mom would talk with her about his strengths. Many many many
(most) times tutors think they are there to help improve weaknesses and
that could mean that she'd focus on phonics instead of helping him learn to
read in HIS best way (clearly that is not phonics).
From the little said about her methods, though, it doesn't sound awful
(truly awful for him would the something like the 100 Easy Lessons book).
It sounds enlightened in the sense that she's going to try to approach it
in a variety of different ways. As she gets to know him, one would hope
she'd do more of what works rather than getting hung up on pushing what
doesn't work so well for him.
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> If having a tutor helps this guy build some confidence, that's a goodChances are relatively good that, at 12, he is close to ready. So that's a
> thing. And with luck, he'll be ready to read soon anyway.
plus.
I wouldn't be down on the tutor if she hadn't said that awful thing about
brain damage - that was so ignorant that it is hard to believe she will be
good for him to be around.
I'd hope that mom would talk with her about his strengths. Many many many
(most) times tutors think they are there to help improve weaknesses and
that could mean that she'd focus on phonics instead of helping him learn to
read in HIS best way (clearly that is not phonics).
From the little said about her methods, though, it doesn't sound awful
(truly awful for him would the something like the 100 Easy Lessons book).
It sounds enlightened in the sense that she's going to try to approach it
in a variety of different ways. As she gets to know him, one would hope
she'd do more of what works rather than getting hung up on pushing what
doesn't work so well for him.
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