Disrespectful grandparent....
Melissa
We are pretty new to unschooling... well, I guess we have been slowly making changes over a long period of time, but I just recently considered us unschoolers.
I have the understanding that respect is one of the main keys in the unschooling philosophy. Well, here is the situation...
My parents are all for the concept of freedom in learning. The problem we have is with my parents (particularly my dad) not being respectful to my children. My 10yo son has grown used to it over a period of years, but my 6yo son is pretty sensitive. He has gotten to the point that he doesn't want to even be around my dad anymore (and I can't say I blame him! <sigh>) Dad calls it "teasing" and I think he thinks he is "making him tough" because he thinks I baby him. My son is what I would call a typical boy... energetic and likes all things boyish. I literally feel like he is being picked on and bullied by my own dad!! We have tried talking to him about it a time or 2, but he thinks WE are the ones being rediculous!!! I don't understand why it should be acceptable for my son to be called names like "sissy", "Mama's boy" and told that he is "acting like a whiney 2 year old" by anyone... especially by an adult AND his own grandfather! My dad is literally destroying their relationship and it is breaking my heart... FYI, this is not new. I grew up with this sort of thing and it brings up bad memories, but I am an adult and can ignore/handle it, but I don't want my kids to put up with it. I don't know how I can make my dad understand.. and I am not sure he wold ever change at this point...
Anyone ever deal with this sort of problem? Any advice on how to begin solving this problem??
I have the understanding that respect is one of the main keys in the unschooling philosophy. Well, here is the situation...
My parents are all for the concept of freedom in learning. The problem we have is with my parents (particularly my dad) not being respectful to my children. My 10yo son has grown used to it over a period of years, but my 6yo son is pretty sensitive. He has gotten to the point that he doesn't want to even be around my dad anymore (and I can't say I blame him! <sigh>) Dad calls it "teasing" and I think he thinks he is "making him tough" because he thinks I baby him. My son is what I would call a typical boy... energetic and likes all things boyish. I literally feel like he is being picked on and bullied by my own dad!! We have tried talking to him about it a time or 2, but he thinks WE are the ones being rediculous!!! I don't understand why it should be acceptable for my son to be called names like "sissy", "Mama's boy" and told that he is "acting like a whiney 2 year old" by anyone... especially by an adult AND his own grandfather! My dad is literally destroying their relationship and it is breaking my heart... FYI, this is not new. I grew up with this sort of thing and it brings up bad memories, but I am an adult and can ignore/handle it, but I don't want my kids to put up with it. I don't know how I can make my dad understand.. and I am not sure he wold ever change at this point...
Anyone ever deal with this sort of problem? Any advice on how to begin solving this problem??
Meredith
"Melissa" <laster99@...> wrote:
Does your dad live with your? Is there a way to move him out or separate your living situation enough that your son needn't interact with him?
If he doesn't live with you, and respect is important to you, then give your son the respect of taking his No seriously. Otherwise, you're aiding and abetting the bullying by repeatedly putting your kid in a situation where he's going to get hurt.
You can't make another person understand and you certainly can't change someone else. You can set things up so that your kids have more choices, including the option of avoiding people who will bully and torment them.
It may be that you have an idealized view of "the value of family" in your mind and are hoping to build that. Sometimes it's better to grieve for those fantasies and let them go and build better relationships with other people.
---Meredith
> my 6yo son is pretty sensitive. He has gotten to the point that he doesn't want to even be around my dad anymore***************
Does your dad live with your? Is there a way to move him out or separate your living situation enough that your son needn't interact with him?
If he doesn't live with you, and respect is important to you, then give your son the respect of taking his No seriously. Otherwise, you're aiding and abetting the bullying by repeatedly putting your kid in a situation where he's going to get hurt.
>>I don't know how I can make my dad understand.. and I am not sure he wold ever change at this point...**************
You can't make another person understand and you certainly can't change someone else. You can set things up so that your kids have more choices, including the option of avoiding people who will bully and torment them.
It may be that you have an idealized view of "the value of family" in your mind and are hoping to build that. Sometimes it's better to grieve for those fantasies and let them go and build better relationships with other people.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 10, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Melissa wrote:
Respect is a tool for *you* to use to create an atmosphere for learning for you kids.
Probably not. But I suspect his certainty that he's right is as great as your certainty that you're right. But certainty doesn't endow someone with the ability to enlighten someone else just with the power of their ideas. (Thank goodness, really!)
You can't make him change. But you can set the conditions of you visiting him with the kids. You can let him know you support the kids in determining what treatment they're willing to put up with from others. And if they don't feel comfortable coming, then you won't bring them. He doesn't have to agree that you're right. But he gets to decide whether or not he gets to see his grandkids.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have the understanding that respect is one of the main keys in the unschooling philosophyRespect isn't something to expect to get from others, including your child and your husband, just because you unschool.
Respect is a tool for *you* to use to create an atmosphere for learning for you kids.
> I don't know how I can make my dad understand..Is there a way for him to make you understand how you're turning your son into a sissy by protecting him?
Probably not. But I suspect his certainty that he's right is as great as your certainty that you're right. But certainty doesn't endow someone with the ability to enlighten someone else just with the power of their ideas. (Thank goodness, really!)
You can't make him change. But you can set the conditions of you visiting him with the kids. You can let him know you support the kids in determining what treatment they're willing to put up with from others. And if they don't feel comfortable coming, then you won't bring them. He doesn't have to agree that you're right. But he gets to decide whether or not he gets to see his grandkids.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
louise.king76
I too have had to deal with this kind of behaviour towards my children from grandparents and other family members.
This is what I think....Protect your children as if they were being physically attacked. Teasing is a kind of verbal abuse, it's hurtful and it must stop.
Your son has to know you will stand up for him no matter WHO criticises him, your are teaching him how to say "NO" to others.
It can be really difficult with family members, I'm still in the process of setting boundaries with my family, hence my last post "Reading when ready". It is very sad and it's harder when the children really love them. I also tried for many years and still do, to explain to my family why their so called "teasing" is not appropriate but they don't get it and probably never will.
After such an incident recently, I came home and wrote an email to my whole family, explaining that my husband and I love both our children dearly and they bring much joy to our loves and we only ask for them (our family) to respect our children as we do, which means no name calling, teasing or "labelling" (as in shy, clingy, needy, too sensitive).
Not one family member replied to me and I am always seen as the "bady" for saying this stuff but at least their know I mean business.
It is an on going battle and sometimes only strong action gets the message across. A couple of years ago I choose not to have any contact with my mother or sister due their negative behaviour towards my children and myself for nearly a year. For them, it just confirmed their beliefs that I am "over reacting" but for me that space helped me gain clarity.
I have a friend who told me that every since his son was little, he used to hide behind his dad's legs when they met someone new. People would say "Oh he's shy isn't he", my friend would reply politely, "He's not SHY, he's being himself".
regards
Louise
This is what I think....Protect your children as if they were being physically attacked. Teasing is a kind of verbal abuse, it's hurtful and it must stop.
Your son has to know you will stand up for him no matter WHO criticises him, your are teaching him how to say "NO" to others.
It can be really difficult with family members, I'm still in the process of setting boundaries with my family, hence my last post "Reading when ready". It is very sad and it's harder when the children really love them. I also tried for many years and still do, to explain to my family why their so called "teasing" is not appropriate but they don't get it and probably never will.
After such an incident recently, I came home and wrote an email to my whole family, explaining that my husband and I love both our children dearly and they bring much joy to our loves and we only ask for them (our family) to respect our children as we do, which means no name calling, teasing or "labelling" (as in shy, clingy, needy, too sensitive).
Not one family member replied to me and I am always seen as the "bady" for saying this stuff but at least their know I mean business.
It is an on going battle and sometimes only strong action gets the message across. A couple of years ago I choose not to have any contact with my mother or sister due their negative behaviour towards my children and myself for nearly a year. For them, it just confirmed their beliefs that I am "over reacting" but for me that space helped me gain clarity.
I have a friend who told me that every since his son was little, he used to hide behind his dad's legs when they met someone new. People would say "Oh he's shy isn't he", my friend would reply politely, "He's not SHY, he's being himself".
regards
Louise
Jenna Brotherton (nee. Lacey)
For me it's pretty simple - if my son doesn't want to be around someone
(who isn't in our immediate family; ie. living with us) then that's his
choice and I will respect that and make sure that person is kept away from
him.
J.
(who isn't in our immediate family; ie. living with us) then that's his
choice and I will respect that and make sure that person is kept away from
him.
J.
On 11 June 2012 07:12, louise.king76 <louise.j.king@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> I too have had to deal with this kind of behaviour towards my children
> from grandparents and other family members.
> This is what I think....Protect your children as if they were being
> physically attacked. Teasing is a kind of verbal abuse, it's hurtful and it
> must stop.
> Your son has to know you will stand up for him no matter WHO criticises
> him, your are teaching him how to say "NO" to others.
>
> It can be really difficult with family members, I'm still in the process
> of setting boundaries with my family, hence my last post "Reading when
> ready". It is very sad and it's harder when the children really love them.
> I also tried for many years and still do, to explain to my family why their
> so called "teasing" is not appropriate but they don't get it and probably
> never will.
>
> After such an incident recently, I came home and wrote an email to my
> whole family, explaining that my husband and I love both our children
> dearly and they bring much joy to our loves and we only ask for them (our
> family) to respect our children as we do, which means no name calling,
> teasing or "labelling" (as in shy, clingy, needy, too sensitive).
> Not one family member replied to me and I am always seen as the "bady" for
> saying this stuff but at least their know I mean business.
>
> It is an on going battle and sometimes only strong action gets the message
> across. A couple of years ago I choose not to have any contact with my
> mother or sister due their negative behaviour towards my children and
> myself for nearly a year. For them, it just confirmed their beliefs that I
> am "over reacting" but for me that space helped me gain clarity.
>
> I have a friend who told me that every since his son was little, he used
> to hide behind his dad's legs when they met someone new. People would say
> "Oh he's shy isn't he", my friend would reply politely, "He's not SHY, he's
> being himself".
>
> regards
> Louise
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kris
Those words are, in my opinion, extreme and I wouldn't want to be around
it. Hearing it directed towards my child would be even worse. If this
were a relative or friend of mine I would let them know I want to spend
time with them but not under those conditions. You can only control
yourself and your dad doesn't have to agree with you but he can adapt his
own behavior to have time with you.
Kris
Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Melissa <laster99@...> wrote:
�We all question our place in the future. The artist�s job is not to
succumb to despair but to find an antidote for the emptiness of existence.
You have a clear and lively voice. Don�t be such a defeatist.� Gertrude
Stein, Midnight In Paris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it. Hearing it directed towards my child would be even worse. If this
were a relative or friend of mine I would let them know I want to spend
time with them but not under those conditions. You can only control
yourself and your dad doesn't have to agree with you but he can adapt his
own behavior to have time with you.
Kris
Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Melissa <laster99@...> wrote:
> I don't understand why it should be acceptable for my son to be called--
> names like "sissy", "Mama's boy" and told that he is "acting like a whiney
> 2 year old" by anyone...
�We all question our place in the future. The artist�s job is not to
succumb to despair but to find an antidote for the emptiness of existence.
You have a clear and lively voice. Don�t be such a defeatist.� Gertrude
Stein, Midnight In Paris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Eva
--- I don't understand why it should be acceptable for my son to be called names like "sissy", "Mama's boy" and told that he is "acting like a whiney 2 year old" by anyone... especially by an adult AND his own grandfather! ---
--- Anyone ever deal with this sort of problem? Any advice on how to begin solving this problem?? ---
My son and my father have problems getting along too. My father doesn't call him names, but he does things to make my 7 yo go into overdrive and then when things escalate, my father gets really angry at him and shouts at him and has even hit him.
On the other hand, they are very alike, they like a lot of similar things and can have a lot of fun together. Building fires, making mentos cola rockets etc.
My solution to all of this has been two things: when we stay at my father's house or he stays with us, either my husband or I will keep a very close eye to what is happening. We stay very near or join them in their activities. The second thing is that when I see that my 7 yo or my father is getting tired, I make sure to get them away from eachother. I take my son to the guest room to watch a movie for example. Things go a lot more smoothly that way.
I wanted to share this to show you an example where it hasn't been necessary to stop having contact, but to solve the problem by acting as a buffer, by helping them get along better.
What I have noticed during all of this is that it's especially hard to deal with these kinds of issues when they trigger all kinds of emotions from when you were a child yourself. Since you wrote that that's the case for you too, I think that would be worth looking into. I think that these emotions got in my way so I wasn't able to solve this problem as well or as quickly as I would have otherwise. My father and my son are doing a lot better now, but my father and I have had a lot of arguments about this that took their toll on our relationship.
Eva
Berend (7) & Fiene (5)
The Netherlands
--- Anyone ever deal with this sort of problem? Any advice on how to begin solving this problem?? ---
My son and my father have problems getting along too. My father doesn't call him names, but he does things to make my 7 yo go into overdrive and then when things escalate, my father gets really angry at him and shouts at him and has even hit him.
On the other hand, they are very alike, they like a lot of similar things and can have a lot of fun together. Building fires, making mentos cola rockets etc.
My solution to all of this has been two things: when we stay at my father's house or he stays with us, either my husband or I will keep a very close eye to what is happening. We stay very near or join them in their activities. The second thing is that when I see that my 7 yo or my father is getting tired, I make sure to get them away from eachother. I take my son to the guest room to watch a movie for example. Things go a lot more smoothly that way.
I wanted to share this to show you an example where it hasn't been necessary to stop having contact, but to solve the problem by acting as a buffer, by helping them get along better.
What I have noticed during all of this is that it's especially hard to deal with these kinds of issues when they trigger all kinds of emotions from when you were a child yourself. Since you wrote that that's the case for you too, I think that would be worth looking into. I think that these emotions got in my way so I wasn't able to solve this problem as well or as quickly as I would have otherwise. My father and my son are doing a lot better now, but my father and I have had a lot of arguments about this that took their toll on our relationship.
Eva
Berend (7) & Fiene (5)
The Netherlands
Sandra Dodd
These are good ideas and I'm glad you wrote this, Eva:
-=-My solution to all of this has been two things: when we stay at my father's house or he stays with us, either my husband or I will keep a very close eye to what is happening. We stay very near or join them in their activities. The second thing is that when I see that my 7 yo or my father is getting tired, I make sure to get them away from eachother. I take my son to the guest room to watch a movie for example. Things go a lot more smoothly that way.
I wanted to share this to show you an example where it hasn't been necessary to stop having contact, but to solve the problem by acting as a buffer, by helping them get along better. -=-
-=-What I have noticed during all of this is that it's especially hard to deal with these kinds of issues when they trigger all kinds of emotions from when you were a child yourself. Since you wrote that that's the case for you too, I think that would be worth looking into. I think that these emotions got in my way so I wasn't able to solve this problem as well or as quickly as I would have otherwise. My father and my son are doing a lot better now, but my father and I have had a lot of arguments about this that took their toll on our relationship. --=-
Yes. And a child with two attentive parents who want his life to be peaceful can endure occasional old-timey negativity from a grandparent without being scarred. If a parent reacts sharply and too strongly, it's probably the parent who needs to recover from childhood hurts, rather than the grandchild who needs to be protected.
A grandparent has a relationship to a grandchild. I think that for "the middle man" to absolutely cut off communication is more likely to be for meanness to the parent than kindness to the child. That is not healthy, right, or good.
When my mother in law was dismissive of our kids, they were prepared in advance, and they were comforted afterwards. They didn't take her seriously. They weren't dependent on her for their self-esteem, for permissions, or for anything else.They were polite to her, knowing that she had had a harsh life, that she had been a harsh mother to their dad, and knowing above all that they were only with her for a very short time. And for them it was kind of interesting, to be around someone who wasn't so directly connected with them, but who was going more by a script, and being critical.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-My solution to all of this has been two things: when we stay at my father's house or he stays with us, either my husband or I will keep a very close eye to what is happening. We stay very near or join them in their activities. The second thing is that when I see that my 7 yo or my father is getting tired, I make sure to get them away from eachother. I take my son to the guest room to watch a movie for example. Things go a lot more smoothly that way.
I wanted to share this to show you an example where it hasn't been necessary to stop having contact, but to solve the problem by acting as a buffer, by helping them get along better. -=-
-=-What I have noticed during all of this is that it's especially hard to deal with these kinds of issues when they trigger all kinds of emotions from when you were a child yourself. Since you wrote that that's the case for you too, I think that would be worth looking into. I think that these emotions got in my way so I wasn't able to solve this problem as well or as quickly as I would have otherwise. My father and my son are doing a lot better now, but my father and I have had a lot of arguments about this that took their toll on our relationship. --=-
Yes. And a child with two attentive parents who want his life to be peaceful can endure occasional old-timey negativity from a grandparent without being scarred. If a parent reacts sharply and too strongly, it's probably the parent who needs to recover from childhood hurts, rather than the grandchild who needs to be protected.
A grandparent has a relationship to a grandchild. I think that for "the middle man" to absolutely cut off communication is more likely to be for meanness to the parent than kindness to the child. That is not healthy, right, or good.
When my mother in law was dismissive of our kids, they were prepared in advance, and they were comforted afterwards. They didn't take her seriously. They weren't dependent on her for their self-esteem, for permissions, or for anything else.They were polite to her, knowing that she had had a harsh life, that she had been a harsh mother to their dad, and knowing above all that they were only with her for a very short time. And for them it was kind of interesting, to be around someone who wasn't so directly connected with them, but who was going more by a script, and being critical.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I started this post 18 hours ago, and am not where the internet works the way I would like for it to. Sorry.
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-=-I have the understanding that respect is one of the main keys in the unschooling philosophy.-=-
No doubt your dad would say you aren't being respectful of him.
I agree that teasing is bullying, and maybe you can look for research, articles, commentary on that. But unschooling doesn't make one immune from the world around. His grandfather would have been that way with or without the unschooling. And I don't think a family can, or should, say "We're unschoolers, and so you (friends, relatives, neighbors) must either become unschoolers too, or stay away from us."
Looking for information to show your dad to request that he not be verbally bullying--something about the effect of negative words--might be more helpful, both to your own recovery and your relationship with him, and to his with his grandchildren.
Telling him it's because you're unschoolers isn't probably the swiftest move.
If you want to give him something to read, though, about unschooling, Pam Laricchia's new book might be short enough that he would read it. It's clear and inspiring.
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/ (upper left; I LOVE the intro page to Pam's site, so am not sending you straight to the book page)
http://sandradodd.com/respect
There might be ideas in there to help, too. Setting an example for your children of big DISrespect for your own parents is unlikely to help them learn how to negotiate interpersonal situations. Preparing them with responses might be good, but not with hateful responses--with questions or responses that maintain their boundaries politely.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----------------------------------------------
-=-I have the understanding that respect is one of the main keys in the unschooling philosophy.-=-
No doubt your dad would say you aren't being respectful of him.
I agree that teasing is bullying, and maybe you can look for research, articles, commentary on that. But unschooling doesn't make one immune from the world around. His grandfather would have been that way with or without the unschooling. And I don't think a family can, or should, say "We're unschoolers, and so you (friends, relatives, neighbors) must either become unschoolers too, or stay away from us."
Looking for information to show your dad to request that he not be verbally bullying--something about the effect of negative words--might be more helpful, both to your own recovery and your relationship with him, and to his with his grandchildren.
Telling him it's because you're unschoolers isn't probably the swiftest move.
If you want to give him something to read, though, about unschooling, Pam Laricchia's new book might be short enough that he would read it. It's clear and inspiring.
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/ (upper left; I LOVE the intro page to Pam's site, so am not sending you straight to the book page)
http://sandradodd.com/respect
There might be ideas in there to help, too. Setting an example for your children of big DISrespect for your own parents is unlikely to help them learn how to negotiate interpersonal situations. Preparing them with responses might be good, but not with hateful responses--with questions or responses that maintain their boundaries politely.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]