[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2002 11:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> Now that I am convinced that I am dull and concerned about the well
> being of my children, is there any real harm in *structuring* time to
> play games from the "Family Math" book, do science experiments, watch
> movies for "history" and "science", do vocabulary cartoon books and
> word puzzle books.

I don't see any reason not to create times to invite your kids to play games,
do science experiments, watch movies or play with puzzle books.

I do all those. So do all unschoolers.

But we don't plan them ahead, on a schedule, with the purpose of covering
certain material.

We JUST DO THEM for their own sakes and the learning always happens. We can't
prevent it.

So - if you can't trust that leaning will just happen and you feel like you
want to make certain that specific learning happens on a particular schedule,
then at least watching movies and doing science experiments is NICER than
reading a boring textbook and answering stupid questions at the ends of the
chapters.

It is remotely possible that you'll start to trust that learning can "just
happen" out of the activities the kids choose to do and that you don't need
to pick certain movies to make sure that they cover certain parts of history
or plan certain science experiments to make sure they learn particular
scientific concepts. But it is really that "trust" that makes unschooling
unschooling - not so much what you and the kids are doing.

If I say, "Hey, Rosie, wanna play some games from the Family Math book?"
She'll say, "Sure." We play them because they're fun - not to learn some
particular skill that I've decided it is time for her to learn. It is NO
different than if I say, "Hey Rosie, wanna play FLUX or UNO or whatever...."
She'll say, "Sure" if she wants to or "Not now" if she doesn't or maybe , "I
don't really LIKE that game, let's play something else."

So - here we might have a parent-led activity that comes right out of a math
book - but it would still be unschooling because of the INTENT. The intent is
to have a good time. We LIKE lots of the family math games - Rosie and I
happen to LOVE strategy games.

I wouldn't probably ASK either of my other daughters if they wanted to play
those games - they don't like those kinds of games.

So I'm not making Rosie play them in an underhanded attempt to make her learn
something. I'm TRULY just offering to play a fun game because we both enjoy
it - the LEARNING happens because learning always happens and we can't
prevent it.

--pamS


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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2002 11:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> Because until we did a science experiment on inertia, I did not know
> what it was. I would never have pointed it out in day to day
> living.

I'm on an "experiment" email list. I get emails that contain really really
simple experiments. I read them all. Every once in a while something comes up
and I jump up and have the ability to demonstrate something in a really
clever way. It is cool. Once in a while the experiments just strike me as so
cool that I jump up from the computer and grab whichever kid is around and
say, "HEY - watch this, it is SO cool."

I don't have a scheduled, pre-decided, course outline for science and I'm not
using these experiments to make a kid learn particular science concepts that
I think she should learn. We're having a cool time doing something fun JUST
because it is fun and cool and for no other reason. And, lo and behold,
Learning Always Happens and we just can't prevent it.

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2002 11:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> Because I'm "dull" in the unschooling sense.

So - brighten up. Get those experiment books and read them. DO them yourself.
Have some fun. Educate yourself and PUT your kids into positions where they
will learn stuff from their environment and from other people around them.
Hang out with NOT-Dull people.

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2002 11:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> > Because if my daughter came to me and asked me what a sousaphone was
> > I would look it up in the dictionary and read the definition.
> >
> So would I. Well, I know what one is already... They'd have to ask me
> what
> (opening dictionary at random) "smectic" means <g> If they were still
> interested, we'd look up "tuba," and maybe look at the encyclopedia for
> John
> Phillip Sousa, and maybe -- if their eyes haven't glazed over yet -- found
> a
> piece of his music from our CD collection or on the Internet. You can
> sample tracks of CD's on bookselling websites like Barnes and Nobel. Note,
> I would stop before the glaze-eyes :-) I try to answer the questions
> without being a complete pest.

Roxana told me a couple of days ago that Wagner invented a new kind of tuba
because he wanted a certain sound for an opera he was writing.

I didn't have to know that - she learned it somewhere else.

I think it is very likely that I learn way more "information" from Roxana
than she does from me.

What I give her is my own sense of enthusiasm for interesting stuff, support
for her interests as being worthwhile and helping her find resources -
driving her places, noticing when things of interest to her are available.

I'm not REAL interested in science fiction, for example, but she is. I saw a
notice that Ray Bradbury is speaking in a couple of weeks very near our home.
So I told her about it and she REALLY wants to go. So I'll take her.

I didn't have to give her "author lessons" - which is what schools do a LOT
of these days. She got interested in authors because she liked their books --
seems sort of, uh, "natural," doesn't it?

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> > Because I'm "dull" in the unschooling sense.
>
>So - brighten up. Get those experiment books and read them. DO them yourself.
>Have some fun. Educate yourself and PUT your kids into positions where they
>will learn stuff from their environment and from other people around them.
>Hang out with NOT-Dull people.

And spend some of the time and energy you've been putting into
understanding unschooling (and it's been considerable) learning something
else you've always been curious about. If there isn't anything right now
that you're curious about, spend some time at the library browsing the
non-fiction shelves.
Since you like lists, <g> pick at least 2 books from at least 3 different
sections. You don't have to read them. Take them home and browse through
them. Give yourself permission to put them down if they aren't
interesting. See if anything catches your fancy. Leave them where your
girls might pick them up and glance at them. If nothing grabs you or them,
go back and get some more. Explore sections you've never been interested
in. Walk down a row of bookshelves and randomly pick 3 books. I like to
do this in the youth section. A lot of non-fiction concepts are easier to
understand if you read a kid's book about them first.
If you feel the need to schedule activities, why not schedule a time each
day when you will be available to do whatever they want with them. Read to
them or play games or watch movies or do experiments or go for a walk or go
shopping. Whatever *they* want to do. Have a few ideas ready in case they
can't think of anything at first.
Try to think out loud more than you probably do now. (This is a biggie for
me - hard to remember.) At the grocery store, do some of your mental math
out loud. (Assuming they're with you. Might be embarassing otherwise - grin)
You're so close, Pat. It's right there under your nose. %^) Don't give
up now.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>
>Roxana told me a couple of days ago that Wagner invented a new kind of tuba
>because he wanted a certain sound for an opera he was writing.

Yup. The Wagner Tuba is played by the French horn players, but I've never
had a chance to play one. Mahler and Bruckner used them in some of their
symphonies. Now you know even more about them. <g>
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Nancy Wooton

on 5/8/02 1:36 PM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:

> The Wagner Tuba is played by the French horn players, but I've never
> had a chance to play one. Mahler and Bruckner used them in some of their
> symphonies. Now you know even more about them. <g>

Oh, goody. Wagner, Mahler AND Bruckner?

Zzzzzzzzz....

Anyone ever see P.D.Q. Bach in concert? He makes a tuba from a garden hose,
a funnel, and a mouthpiece. Basic, but it works <ggg>

Nancy

Tia Leschke

>
>Oh, goody. Wagner, Mahler AND Bruckner?
>
>Zzzzzzzzz....

Sacrilege!!!!

<g> Obviously you're not a brass player.


>Anyone ever see P.D.Q. Bach in concert? He makes a tuba from a garden hose,
>a funnel, and a mouthpiece. Basic, but it works <ggg>

Dennis Brain (famous horn player) did that on one of the old Hoffnung
Festival records.

Hey, I can do it with a piece of bull kelp and no mouthpiece. (a little
stinky though)
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Nancy Wooton

on 5/9/02 9:39 AM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:

>> Oh, goody. Wagner, Mahler AND Bruckner?
>>
>> Zzzzzzzzz....
>
> Sacrilege!!!!
>
> <g> Obviously you're not a brass player.

Recorder, piano and cello. None very well.

My faves are either much older (Telemann, Vivaldi, Mozart, Bach) or newer
(R. Vaughan Williams, Arvo Part, John Tavener).

I think it was a Bruckner symphony my dj dh and his former co-workers at the
classical station liked: you could put the CD on and take a nap for an hour
and a half.

;-) Nancy

Tia Leschke

>
>Recorder, piano and cello. None very well.

Hey, I do those too. <g>


>My faves are either much older (Telemann, Vivaldi, Mozart, Bach) or newer
>(R. Vaughan Williams, Arvo Part, John Tavener).

I started playing the cello a few years ago because I loved the Baroque
bass line. I love Baroque music, and the classical period, and the
romantics, and, and, and. A lot of contemporary music sounds to me like it
was meant to be as ugly as possible, but I do like R. Vaughn Williams,
Hanson, Shostakovich, and some others. Our orchestra is doing a premier of
a work by a New Zealand composer next month. I forget her name. It's
actually quite nice.


>I think it was a Bruckner symphony my dj dh and his former co-workers at the
>classical station liked: you could put the CD on and take a nap for an hour
>and a half.

Well yes. They're long. But I'm not sure how anyone could nap during any
but the slow movements. My college boyfriend and I used to stay up all
night listening to Mahler. The joy of my life was getting to play in
Mahler's sixth symphony. I had also gotten to play in his first symphony
at one time, but that was when I discovered that French horns actually have
strings . . . . . . . and they can break. %^(
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island