reading several different books at once
tricia
Just looking for some insight here. My 9 year old daughter loves to read. Only she reads in a fashion I haven't seen in my other 10 children who read. One hasn't learned yet. At any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph.
This is pretty much how I prefer reading myself but I feel with my maturity I retain what I am reading and actually learn something from it. But with a 9 year old jumping around like this! I thought I'd ask all you 'professional' unschoolers and see what you think!
thanks,
Tricia
This is pretty much how I prefer reading myself but I feel with my maturity I retain what I am reading and actually learn something from it. But with a 9 year old jumping around like this! I thought I'd ask all you 'professional' unschoolers and see what you think!
thanks,
Tricia
Sandra Dodd
-=-This is pretty much how I prefer reading myself but I feel with my maturity I retain what I am reading and actually learn something from it. -=-
What if you didn't retain ANYthing from reading books? What if you didn't learn anything from a book?
What if you read a book you've read before and you just enjoy reading. I read Slapstick several times (Kurt Vonnegut). I read Oliver Twist repeatedly when I was young, but I could hardly name any of the characters, then or now. I've read a book called Conceptual Blockbusting three or four times. Sometimes I've just read part of it, which is why I can't really count.
I don't think it takes maturity to learn from something interesting.
-=-But with a 9 year old jumping around like this! I thought I'd ask all you 'professional' unschoolers and see what you think!-=-
What I know for an unwavering fact is that if you were to do ANYthing to discourage her from reading the way she wants to, you would be discouraging her from reading. You would be damaging her self-esteem, her creativity, and your relationship with her.
When you look at a painting, whether you look at it and then another painting in the same gallery, and then come back to it, does it matter? How much do you expect to retain or to learn from looking at a painting? How about music? There were people who could transcribe music so well and so fast, before recording devices were invented, that they would to to a concert or a show (Pirates of Penzance by Gilbert and Sullivan is one I know specifically about) and they could write down the tunes in musical notation, take them to people who could typeset them, and would sell bootleg music before it was officially published. It was like bootleg Chinese movies-to=DVD, nowadays, only it took way more knowledge and effort than just holding a digital camera during a movie screening.
So IF a guy could steal the music from a musical as it unfolded, was he "actually learning" from it? Was he retaining what he had heard? I don't think he was enjoying the show at all, or paying any attention to the costumes or staging or dialog between songs.
He might have had "more maturity" in the music-transcription area than other people, but he had LESS maturity in the realm of integrity than those who could attend the show without stealing the intellectual property of the authors.
-=-My 9 year old daughter loves to read. Only she reads in a fashion I haven't seen in my other 10 children who read. One hasn't learned yet. At any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph. -=-
I think you should leave her alone about it and let her read the way she wants to read.
Sandra
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What if you didn't retain ANYthing from reading books? What if you didn't learn anything from a book?
What if you read a book you've read before and you just enjoy reading. I read Slapstick several times (Kurt Vonnegut). I read Oliver Twist repeatedly when I was young, but I could hardly name any of the characters, then or now. I've read a book called Conceptual Blockbusting three or four times. Sometimes I've just read part of it, which is why I can't really count.
I don't think it takes maturity to learn from something interesting.
-=-But with a 9 year old jumping around like this! I thought I'd ask all you 'professional' unschoolers and see what you think!-=-
What I know for an unwavering fact is that if you were to do ANYthing to discourage her from reading the way she wants to, you would be discouraging her from reading. You would be damaging her self-esteem, her creativity, and your relationship with her.
When you look at a painting, whether you look at it and then another painting in the same gallery, and then come back to it, does it matter? How much do you expect to retain or to learn from looking at a painting? How about music? There were people who could transcribe music so well and so fast, before recording devices were invented, that they would to to a concert or a show (Pirates of Penzance by Gilbert and Sullivan is one I know specifically about) and they could write down the tunes in musical notation, take them to people who could typeset them, and would sell bootleg music before it was officially published. It was like bootleg Chinese movies-to=DVD, nowadays, only it took way more knowledge and effort than just holding a digital camera during a movie screening.
So IF a guy could steal the music from a musical as it unfolded, was he "actually learning" from it? Was he retaining what he had heard? I don't think he was enjoying the show at all, or paying any attention to the costumes or staging or dialog between songs.
He might have had "more maturity" in the music-transcription area than other people, but he had LESS maturity in the realm of integrity than those who could attend the show without stealing the intellectual property of the authors.
-=-My 9 year old daughter loves to read. Only she reads in a fashion I haven't seen in my other 10 children who read. One hasn't learned yet. At any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph. -=-
I think you should leave her alone about it and let her read the way she wants to read.
Sandra
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chris ester
I, personally, always found it tortuous to be forced to read one book at a
time. I know that Thomas Jefferson read several books at a time.
If your daughter is actually reading these books, then she will most likely
retain as much as she would if she read them one at a time.
I was struck by your use of the words "thumbing through", as though what
she is doing is somehow less valuable or less rigorous than what you or
another adult would do with a book.
Perhaps she reads and then 'digests' what she read on a less conscious
level, but in the meantime wants to be reading something because she loves
to read (always a beautiful thing!). Or maybe she gets bored after a while
and wants to read something different and then goes back to the first.
Either way, if she is engaged with reading at the age of 8, and she seems
happy, where is the problem.
Have you engaged with your daughter around reading? Reading together,
asking her her opinion about what she is reading, asking her to read to
you... where is the relationship between the two of you?
Chris
time. I know that Thomas Jefferson read several books at a time.
If your daughter is actually reading these books, then she will most likely
retain as much as she would if she read them one at a time.
I was struck by your use of the words "thumbing through", as though what
she is doing is somehow less valuable or less rigorous than what you or
another adult would do with a book.
Perhaps she reads and then 'digests' what she read on a less conscious
level, but in the meantime wants to be reading something because she loves
to read (always a beautiful thing!). Or maybe she gets bored after a while
and wants to read something different and then goes back to the first.
Either way, if she is engaged with reading at the age of 8, and she seems
happy, where is the problem.
Have you engaged with your daughter around reading? Reading together,
asking her her opinion about what she is reading, asking her to read to
you... where is the relationship between the two of you?
Chris
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:28 PM, tricia <vpsmith14@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Just looking for some insight here. My 9 year old daughter loves to read.
> Only she reads in a fashion I haven't seen in my other 10 children who
> read. One hasn't learned yet. At any given time she will have 4 to 5 books
> she picks out of. She is currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda,
> Wind in the Willows, The Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph.
>
> This is pretty much how I prefer reading myself but I feel with my
> maturity I retain what I am reading and actually learn something from it.
> But with a 9 year old jumping around like this! I thought I'd ask all you
> 'professional' unschoolers and see what you think!
>
> thanks,
> Tricia
>
>
>
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Do you have expectations that she is reading with the goal to learn something?I read for information , out of curiosity and mostly because I enjoy or mostly all of those at once!!!
Why do you have expectations? Can she be reading for pure enjoyment and reading several books at once is making her happy?
I am one of those who reads several things at once, plus audio books!
I can watch a show and be on the computer with someone talking or surfing. It kind of drives my husband a little crazy but that is how I am. People are different. They like different things. There is not wrong or right way to read a book.
There is not minimum or maximum number of books one can read at the same time at any age.
And "professional unschoolers" really bothers me. There are a few people that probably would be happy to be consired "professionals" unschoolers because they sell advice and support.
Alex Polikowsky
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Why do you have expectations? Can she be reading for pure enjoyment and reading several books at once is making her happy?
I am one of those who reads several things at once, plus audio books!
I can watch a show and be on the computer with someone talking or surfing. It kind of drives my husband a little crazy but that is how I am. People are different. They like different things. There is not wrong or right way to read a book.
There is not minimum or maximum number of books one can read at the same time at any age.
And "professional unschoolers" really bothers me. There are a few people that probably would be happy to be consired "professionals" unschoolers because they sell advice and support.
Alex Polikowsky
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Have you engaged with your daughter around reading? Reading together,
asking her her opinion about what she is reading, asking her to read to
you... where is the relationship between the two of you?-=-
I think this is another way to harm the relationship AND the unschooling.
It will seem like a test, and unschoolers shouldn't be testing.
If the girl likes a book just for the cover, the illustrations, the font... that should be between her and the book, not between her and her mom (unless she/girl chooses to share it).
Asking a child to read aloud just to do it isn't nice, in my opinion. I've seen it do harm.
When one of my kids read aloud, it was out of exuberant enthusiasm to share something cool they had found. And they weren't nine. They were older, and better readers.
Sandra
asking her her opinion about what she is reading, asking her to read to
you... where is the relationship between the two of you?-=-
I think this is another way to harm the relationship AND the unschooling.
It will seem like a test, and unschoolers shouldn't be testing.
If the girl likes a book just for the cover, the illustrations, the font... that should be between her and the book, not between her and her mom (unless she/girl chooses to share it).
Asking a child to read aloud just to do it isn't nice, in my opinion. I've seen it do harm.
When one of my kids read aloud, it was out of exuberant enthusiasm to share something cool they had found. And they weren't nine. They were older, and better readers.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I am one of those who reads several things at once, plus audio books!-=-
I have a book in my bag, and a different one by the bed, and another one in the bathroom I'm reading. Because no one assigned me to read these books, I would rather have them place-specific than carry them around. One is for doctors' offices and airports and that. One is for falling asleep (I finished it; it was called Nine Lives, and was about spirituality in India these days, just in the past few years).
I have lots of books I don't "READ" in a cover-to-cover, retain-and-report way at all. They're for fun or reference.
Sandra
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I have a book in my bag, and a different one by the bed, and another one in the bathroom I'm reading. Because no one assigned me to read these books, I would rather have them place-specific than carry them around. One is for doctors' offices and airports and that. One is for falling asleep (I finished it; it was called Nine Lives, and was about spirituality in India these days, just in the past few years).
I have lots of books I don't "READ" in a cover-to-cover, retain-and-report way at all. They're for fun or reference.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On May 31, 2012, at 5:28 PM, tricia wrote:
Why do you think she's doing this? Presumably she has a choice to read however she wants or do many other things.
She's getting something valuable to her right now self or she wouldn't be doing it.
Joyce
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> but I feel with my maturity I retain what I am reading andIt sounds like you're putting your agenda for what you believe your daughter should be getting from books ahead of what she wants.
> actually learn something from it. But with a 9 year old jumping around like this!
Why do you think she's doing this? Presumably she has a choice to read however she wants or do many other things.
She's getting something valuable to her right now self or she wouldn't be doing it.
Joyce
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sheeboo2
I've always read more than one book at once. When I was your daughter's age and through my teen years, I'd read the same parts of books over and over again, often never finishing any one book; I'd read the last page or chapter, though, but not the whole book, just my favorite parts.
<Slap!> I just realized that Noor watches movies the way I used to read!
I still read more than one book at a time.
There's a famous line from a literary theorist: "The author (God) is dead," which continues, ""To give a text an Author" and assign a single, corresponding interpretation to it "is to impose a limit on that text." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author
What Barthes was saying, in essence, is that authorship actually lies with the reader; the reader creates meaning. There are entire fields of literary theory that follow this line of thought and include among their discussions issues like metafiction (fiction that talks about the act of fiction), intertextuality (when one text refers to another), multivocal narratives, etc.....It sounds like your daughter reads like a post-structuralist/post-modernist. I think there's a lot of value in seeing the world as a swirl of narratives, without pre-imposed lines defining where one story stops and another starts
Brie
<Slap!> I just realized that Noor watches movies the way I used to read!
I still read more than one book at a time.
There's a famous line from a literary theorist: "The author (God) is dead," which continues, ""To give a text an Author" and assign a single, corresponding interpretation to it "is to impose a limit on that text." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author
What Barthes was saying, in essence, is that authorship actually lies with the reader; the reader creates meaning. There are entire fields of literary theory that follow this line of thought and include among their discussions issues like metafiction (fiction that talks about the act of fiction), intertextuality (when one text refers to another), multivocal narratives, etc.....It sounds like your daughter reads like a post-structuralist/post-modernist. I think there's a lot of value in seeing the world as a swirl of narratives, without pre-imposed lines defining where one story stops and another starts
Brie
Meredith
"sheeboo2" <brmino@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>> <Slap!> I just realized that Noor watches movies the way I used to read!I was thinking about movies, too - and video games and dress-up and other kinds of play. Writing and animating and dreaming.
---Meredith
Deb Lewis
***I think there's a lot of value in seeing the world as a swirl of narratives, without pre-imposed lines defining where one story stops and another starts.***
I like the way some authors put words together in unexpected ways. I pick up a lot of books I never buy because I read a paragraph and can guess the next word or the next sentence. I want to be surprised or delighted or provoked when I read. And some of that pleasure can come from reading several books of different styles at the same time. We play a game here where we write random sentences from different books and then put them together as if they were one story. It’s funny and wild and mind bending, sometimes. <g>
If you read a Shakespeare sonnet would you have to read them all before you read Allen Ginsberg? <g>
Maybe your daughter is a poet, experimenting. Maybe she reads like millions of other people read. <g> I think it’s nothing at all to worry over.
Deb Lewis
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I like the way some authors put words together in unexpected ways. I pick up a lot of books I never buy because I read a paragraph and can guess the next word or the next sentence. I want to be surprised or delighted or provoked when I read. And some of that pleasure can come from reading several books of different styles at the same time. We play a game here where we write random sentences from different books and then put them together as if they were one story. It’s funny and wild and mind bending, sometimes. <g>
If you read a Shakespeare sonnet would you have to read them all before you read Allen Ginsberg? <g>
Maybe your daughter is a poet, experimenting. Maybe she reads like millions of other people read. <g> I think it’s nothing at all to worry over.
Deb Lewis
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tricia
Wow, so much information from you all. Thanks so much. I haven't said anything to her about her reading habits nor have I asked her questions regarding what she is reading about. IE, are you retaining anything. This was just an observation I had made with her and it created thoughts in my mind that I knew I could work out here! While I have mostly been a 'relaxed' homeschool mom, I'm still a mom, and until I get past the conveyor belt I was on for over 23 years of homeschooling I'm thinking questions like this will pop into my mind a time or two. Essentially why I came to this group. I'm working on it and ended up purchasing a record keeping book for homeschoolers and I have a feeling that this will be one of the 'tools' I will need to fully jump into and trust my children. Which is something I have learned. To trust them. Funny, I see it, I know it, but in the end, I fear it a little.
Thanks again,
Tricia
Thanks again,
Tricia
Meredith
"tricia" <vpsmith14@...> wrote:
Instead of keeping records in that way, it could be better to blog or scrapbook - fun things, the sorts of things you'll want to look back and smile over later, or send to grandparents to say "look at this cute kid!" If you need to do some reporting, you can still use those to jog your memory, but the more you can do to step back from "record keeping" the more you can relax into the swirl of natural learning.
---Meredith
> I'm working on it and ended up purchasing a record keeping book for homeschoolers*******************
Instead of keeping records in that way, it could be better to blog or scrapbook - fun things, the sorts of things you'll want to look back and smile over later, or send to grandparents to say "look at this cute kid!" If you need to do some reporting, you can still use those to jog your memory, but the more you can do to step back from "record keeping" the more you can relax into the swirl of natural learning.
---Meredith
Patricia Platt
-=-My 9 year old daughter loves to read. Only she reads in a fashion I
haven't seen in my other 10 children who read. One hasn't learned yet. At
any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is
currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The
Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph. -=-
I have always read several books at once, too. When I was your daughter's
age, I realized that one reason I always read several novels at once is
because I typically feel sad when I read the last sentence. If I'm at
different places in several works, the sadness of finishing one of them
isn't so hard to bear. Also, I've always liked comparing different writing
styles and subjects as I read different texts.
Different people read differently, because of our unique gifts and
experiences. I get great pleasure from the rhythm and poetry of beautiful
prose, and I therefore sometimes reread passages and chapters over and over
again. I sometimes read my favorite passages aloud to increase this
pleasure, or at least I "hear" the words in my head as I read. As a child,
I sometimes acted out parts in my favorite novels, as if I were engaging
with a script for a play. As an adult, I often mull over how I would turn a
short story or novel into a screenplay. For all the reasons stated above, I
tend to read slowly. My point in saying all this is that "comprehension"
isn't the only purpose for reading. There is also reading for pure pleasure
of language or story. I think that kind of enjoyment is actually a very
basic, human one.
My husband, unlike me, reads fast and linearly. I used to think that he was
just "thumbing through" texts, but he is a speed reader and has amazing
"comprehension" (defined, as per the elementary school pop-quiz, as the
ability to regurgitate facts in the short-term), given how fast he reads.
Maybe your daughter, who appears to you to be skimming, is actually
speed-reading the way my husband does.
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haven't seen in my other 10 children who read. One hasn't learned yet. At
any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is
currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The
Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph. -=-
I have always read several books at once, too. When I was your daughter's
age, I realized that one reason I always read several novels at once is
because I typically feel sad when I read the last sentence. If I'm at
different places in several works, the sadness of finishing one of them
isn't so hard to bear. Also, I've always liked comparing different writing
styles and subjects as I read different texts.
Different people read differently, because of our unique gifts and
experiences. I get great pleasure from the rhythm and poetry of beautiful
prose, and I therefore sometimes reread passages and chapters over and over
again. I sometimes read my favorite passages aloud to increase this
pleasure, or at least I "hear" the words in my head as I read. As a child,
I sometimes acted out parts in my favorite novels, as if I were engaging
with a script for a play. As an adult, I often mull over how I would turn a
short story or novel into a screenplay. For all the reasons stated above, I
tend to read slowly. My point in saying all this is that "comprehension"
isn't the only purpose for reading. There is also reading for pure pleasure
of language or story. I think that kind of enjoyment is actually a very
basic, human one.
My husband, unlike me, reads fast and linearly. I used to think that he was
just "thumbing through" texts, but he is a speed reader and has amazing
"comprehension" (defined, as per the elementary school pop-quiz, as the
ability to regurgitate facts in the short-term), given how fast he reads.
Maybe your daughter, who appears to you to be skimming, is actually
speed-reading the way my husband does.
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Sandra Dodd
-=-While I have mostly been a 'relaxed' homeschool mom, I'm still a mom, and...-=-
I don't suppose you meant for that to be insulting.
It's possible that you've spent many years thinking that unschoolers were not good mothers, but I've sent nearly 26 years now being a good mother without having been a mostly 'relaxed' homeschool mom, and many others here have as well.
It's okay not to try to explain or apologize. :-)
On behalf of a large number of radical unschoolers on this list who are well known to me (and their children, husbands, dogs and houses in many cases), I wanted to point out that it is possible to still be a mom and to unschool very well.
-=-... until I get past the conveyor belt I was on for over 23 years of homeschooling I'm thinking questions like this will pop into my mind a time or two.-=-
If you have been a homeschooling mom for 23 years, and you were in school for 12 to 20 years before that, sure--those ideas will pop into your mind.
That doesn't mean people in this discussion should encourage that.
If school seemed fantastic to you, you probably wouldn't have homeschooled.
If homeschooling by the book(s) seemed fantastic to you, you probably wouldn't be in this group now.
-=- I'm working on it and ended up purchasing a record keeping book for homeschoolers and I have a feeling that this will be one of the 'tools' I will need to fully jump into and trust my children.-=-
I don't think a record keeping book for homeschoolers will help you be a better unschooler.
This might help, and maybe blogging (or journaling privately) would.
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Sandra
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I don't suppose you meant for that to be insulting.
It's possible that you've spent many years thinking that unschoolers were not good mothers, but I've sent nearly 26 years now being a good mother without having been a mostly 'relaxed' homeschool mom, and many others here have as well.
It's okay not to try to explain or apologize. :-)
On behalf of a large number of radical unschoolers on this list who are well known to me (and their children, husbands, dogs and houses in many cases), I wanted to point out that it is possible to still be a mom and to unschool very well.
-=-... until I get past the conveyor belt I was on for over 23 years of homeschooling I'm thinking questions like this will pop into my mind a time or two.-=-
If you have been a homeschooling mom for 23 years, and you were in school for 12 to 20 years before that, sure--those ideas will pop into your mind.
That doesn't mean people in this discussion should encourage that.
If school seemed fantastic to you, you probably wouldn't have homeschooled.
If homeschooling by the book(s) seemed fantastic to you, you probably wouldn't be in this group now.
-=- I'm working on it and ended up purchasing a record keeping book for homeschoolers and I have a feeling that this will be one of the 'tools' I will need to fully jump into and trust my children.-=-
I don't think a record keeping book for homeschoolers will help you be a better unschooler.
This might help, and maybe blogging (or journaling privately) would.
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-
Maybe your daughter, who appears to you to be skimming, is actually
speed-reading the way my husband does.-=-
Speed reading was a big fad in the 1960's and people would pay money to learn to "read" fast (to skim, really). In my later school years, we were coached to speed read by some of the teachers. It's fine if you're looking in an article for something particular, but it's like flying instead of driving, if what you wanted was to notice the scenery.
I think of someone speed reading anything that's beautifully written--Pride and Prejudice, Lord of the Rings, The Sneetches--instead of lingering over the setting of a scene, or a really excellent rhyme or alliterative phrase.
There are many parts of life where "fast" is detrimental.
Sandra
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Maybe your daughter, who appears to you to be skimming, is actually
speed-reading the way my husband does.-=-
Speed reading was a big fad in the 1960's and people would pay money to learn to "read" fast (to skim, really). In my later school years, we were coached to speed read by some of the teachers. It's fine if you're looking in an article for something particular, but it's like flying instead of driving, if what you wanted was to notice the scenery.
I think of someone speed reading anything that's beautifully written--Pride and Prejudice, Lord of the Rings, The Sneetches--instead of lingering over the setting of a scene, or a really excellent rhyme or alliterative phrase.
There are many parts of life where "fast" is detrimental.
Sandra
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riasplace3
--- In [email protected], "tricia" <vpsmith14@...> wrote:
Ria
>I've always read like this....sometimes you want something "light", sometimes something "heavier" - and it might be different things for different places/times, even! I have books on my bedside table for late-night reading, and different types of books for reading in the van, the library, the bathroom...... It's a good thing! :)
> At any given time she will have 4 to 5 books she picks out of. She is currently thumbing through Jane Eyre, Matilda, Wind in the Willows, The Children's Hour, and Trial and Triumph.
Ria
Kelley
I hope it's okay to comment since I'm new. I wish I could remember where I read it recently but I had read about kids being able to read 4 or 5 books at the same time. It may have even been in the allergy book I was recently reading. Some kids just learn differently. And they can pick it up from each book, and know what they are reading.
Kelley
Kelley
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:18 AM, Kelley wrote:
Oh, wait, you don't think when you're watching TV. Or you get overloaded. Depends which fear monger you listen to ;-)
Joyce
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> I had read about kids being able to read 4 or 5 books at the same timeAnd how different is it from following several TV series at the same time?
Oh, wait, you don't think when you're watching TV. Or you get overloaded. Depends which fear monger you listen to ;-)
Joyce
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Pam Sorooshian
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Kelley <cabrals6@...> wrote:
few weeks after joining. You should read a lot and post little, if at all,
at the beginning, because this list is quite different than most lists and
we want people to get a sense of what kind of responses to expect before
they decide to post.
kids who have multiple books going at the same time. I think it is
extremely common.
of the basic principles of unschooling.
unschooling context. In schools, kids have reading assignments and they
often spend time reading books without much comprehension. But that doesn't
happen with unschoolers because people don't continue to read books,
voluntarily, when they don't understand what they are reading.
-pam
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> I hope it's okay to comment since I'm new.>>I let this post through, but we do request that you not post for at least a
few weeks after joining. You should read a lot and post little, if at all,
at the beginning, because this list is quite different than most lists and
we want people to get a sense of what kind of responses to expect before
they decide to post.
> >> I wish I could remember where I read it recently but I had read aboutPeople here on this list have just posted about themselves and their own
> kids being able to read 4 or 5 books at the same time. >>
kids who have multiple books going at the same time. I think it is
extremely common.
>>>It may have even been in the allergy book I was recently reading. SomeEVERY kid learns in their own way if they are allowed to do so. That's one
> kids just learn differently. >>>
of the basic principles of unschooling.
>>And they can pick it up from each book, and know what they are reading.>>>The concept of not knowing what they are reading makes no sense in an
unschooling context. In schools, kids have reading assignments and they
often spend time reading books without much comprehension. But that doesn't
happen with unschoolers because people don't continue to read books,
voluntarily, when they don't understand what they are reading.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-EVERY kid learns in their own way if they are allowed to do so. -=-
No one can prevent a child from learning in his own way.
What CAN be done is for someone to thwart a child's natural learning by not allowing him access to the materials, input and experiences he could use.
No one can require a child to learn in any way other than the way(s) he learns. The attempt to do that causes much unhappiness in the world, and many people to believe that they are not bright or able.
-=->>>It may have even been in the allergy book I was recently reading. Some
Unschooling will work for every child, if parents can figure out how to provide a good environment for unschooling--and that should include a parent or two who understand natural learning, even if they need to go way out of their way to change their thinking and gain awareness of how learning works in a thousand non-schoolish ways.
Thinking that changing a diet will make a child learn differently is a plan to control food in an attempt to control behavior, and that is a Very Bad Plan. http://sandradodd.com/control
-=->>And they can pick it up from each book, and know what they are reading.>>>
-=-The concept of not knowing what they are reading makes no sense in an
unschooling context. In schools, kids have reading assignments and they
often spend time reading books without much comprehension. But that doesn't
happen with unschoolers because people don't continue to read books,
voluntarily, when they don't understand what they are reading.-=-
I think there is no such thing as reading without knowing what one is reading.
IF there is a difference between "reading" and "reading comprehension," then I can read in several languages! I would have no comprehension whatsoever, but if I could sound out the words at the pace of normal language, not making too many errors in pronunciation, would I be reading? Reading German? Italian, Spanish and French? Reading Swedish?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No one can prevent a child from learning in his own way.
What CAN be done is for someone to thwart a child's natural learning by not allowing him access to the materials, input and experiences he could use.
No one can require a child to learn in any way other than the way(s) he learns. The attempt to do that causes much unhappiness in the world, and many people to believe that they are not bright or able.
-=->>>It may have even been in the allergy book I was recently reading. Some
> kids just learn differently. >>>-=-Any allergy book that's talking about how children learn should be put away and not opened again for many years, if ever, in my personal experience.
Unschooling will work for every child, if parents can figure out how to provide a good environment for unschooling--and that should include a parent or two who understand natural learning, even if they need to go way out of their way to change their thinking and gain awareness of how learning works in a thousand non-schoolish ways.
Thinking that changing a diet will make a child learn differently is a plan to control food in an attempt to control behavior, and that is a Very Bad Plan. http://sandradodd.com/control
-=->>And they can pick it up from each book, and know what they are reading.>>>
-=-The concept of not knowing what they are reading makes no sense in an
unschooling context. In schools, kids have reading assignments and they
often spend time reading books without much comprehension. But that doesn't
happen with unschoolers because people don't continue to read books,
voluntarily, when they don't understand what they are reading.-=-
I think there is no such thing as reading without knowing what one is reading.
IF there is a difference between "reading" and "reading comprehension," then I can read in several languages! I would have no comprehension whatsoever, but if I could sound out the words at the pace of normal language, not making too many errors in pronunciation, would I be reading? Reading German? Italian, Spanish and French? Reading Swedish?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Catherine GB
Hi Tricia
I have always done it !! I loved reading from the start and remember
having a book downstairs, and at least 2 in my bedroom, with the
favorite one for reading just before bed.
If you do it yourself, maybe you can share with your daughter the "why"
and what you enjoy while having many different books on the go ?
Cat
I have always done it !! I loved reading from the start and remember
having a book downstairs, and at least 2 in my bedroom, with the
favorite one for reading just before bed.
If you do it yourself, maybe you can share with your daughter the "why"
and what you enjoy while having many different books on the go ?
Cat
Pam Sorooshian
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Italian especially well. I can't read French nearly so well and I can read
some Farsi, but I can't read Chinese at all. That would be considered the
"decoding reader" stage of reading. It might seem silly to call that
reading - since there isn't much point to it.
I think reading without comprehension means they can read the words, one at
a time, but in doing that process they are not putting the words together
into sentences that have overall meaning.
They are reading: "The dog chased the black cat," the same way they would
read a list of words such as, "dog, tree, house, sleep, blue, go." It is
what happens when children are learning to decode words and all their focus
is on that. My kids never did that - because they were reading for meaning
from the beginning - getting meaning was the point of reading. But kids
being taught to read aren't choosing to read for meaning, they are doing
lessons on decoding written letters into sounds. It isn't that surprising
that they just do that, one word at a time and each word a separate task.
There are reading instruction methods that purposely do not use letter
combinations with real meaning - they don't use real words while the kids
are learning to sound out. So the kids learn to "read" with lists like
this: dat, caf, eld, fol, lum, stug, and so on.
In Farsi (Persian), they don't have these two different kinds of reading -
decoding versus reading for meaning because they don't put the vowel sounds
in words (the vowel sounds don't have corresponding letters) so you have to
know the meaning of the sentence to know what word is meant. For example,
if we had no vowels in English writing, you might have an expression like,
"rd cp" and you would have to know the context to know if it was "red cup"
or "red cap" or "rude cop." So, for them, there is phonics to be learned,
but you really can't just sound out words without knowing the meaning.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I think there is no such thing as reading without knowing what one isYes - you can read in several languages - me too. I can read in Spanish and
> reading.
> IF there is a difference between "reading" and "reading comprehension,"
> then I can read in several languages!>>>
>
Italian especially well. I can't read French nearly so well and I can read
some Farsi, but I can't read Chinese at all. That would be considered the
"decoding reader" stage of reading. It might seem silly to call that
reading - since there isn't much point to it.
I think reading without comprehension means they can read the words, one at
a time, but in doing that process they are not putting the words together
into sentences that have overall meaning.
They are reading: "The dog chased the black cat," the same way they would
read a list of words such as, "dog, tree, house, sleep, blue, go." It is
what happens when children are learning to decode words and all their focus
is on that. My kids never did that - because they were reading for meaning
from the beginning - getting meaning was the point of reading. But kids
being taught to read aren't choosing to read for meaning, they are doing
lessons on decoding written letters into sounds. It isn't that surprising
that they just do that, one word at a time and each word a separate task.
There are reading instruction methods that purposely do not use letter
combinations with real meaning - they don't use real words while the kids
are learning to sound out. So the kids learn to "read" with lists like
this: dat, caf, eld, fol, lum, stug, and so on.
In Farsi (Persian), they don't have these two different kinds of reading -
decoding versus reading for meaning because they don't put the vowel sounds
in words (the vowel sounds don't have corresponding letters) so you have to
know the meaning of the sentence to know what word is meant. For example,
if we had no vowels in English writing, you might have an expression like,
"rd cp" and you would have to know the context to know if it was "red cup"
or "red cap" or "rude cop." So, for them, there is phonics to be learned,
but you really can't just sound out words without knowing the meaning.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sandralynndodd
--- In [email protected], Catherine GB <cgoudou@...> wrote:
-=If you do it yourself, maybe you can share with your daughter the "why"
and what you enjoy while having many different books on the go ?-=-
Ack!!! Why!?
The daughter was fine. Why should the mom explain anything to her?
This started off about a mom wanting (it seemed) to get us to say she should limit her daughter to one book at a time.
Explaining to a child why the mom might be reading more than one book at a time holds no advantage unless the daughter asked the mom what the deal was with so many partially-read books.
renee_cabatic
> In Farsi (Persian), they don't have these two different kinds of reading -This is fascinating to me. Xander and XuMei (never schooled, 11) are learning to read and often leave the vowels out when reading and writing. They figure out the vowel sounds through the meaning.
> decoding versus reading for meaning because they don't put the vowel sounds
> in words (the vowel sounds don't have corresponding letters) so you have to
> know the meaning of the sentence to know what word is meant. For example,
> if we had no vowels in English writing, you might have an expression like,
> "rd cp" and you would have to know the context to know if it was "red cup"
> or "red cap" or "rude cop." So, for them, there is phonics to be learned,
> but you really can't just sound out words without knowing the meaning.
>
> -pam
>
>
XuMei read my t-shirt, "I am as big as I can drem? Dram? Drum? Dream? Dream!"
I said something about vowels changing the meaning and Xander asked what a vowel was. I didn't know for sure so I guessed that it was the sounds we make when our mouth is open in between the other sounds. Then I googled it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel
They also love the idea of a "word jail" for words that are spelled illogically.
--Renee Cabatic