joanne.lopers

My daughter will not let me go anywhere without her. I currently cannot walk the dogs around the block when my husband is home and her neighbor friends are over without her needing to come with me. We do a coop once a week and if I leave the room for a minute without telling her, she crys. I try my hardest to tell her every time I go somewhere, out the front gate, to the garage, but I do forget sometimes if she is busy doing something. It is stressful for me to never be able to have a moment away. I like to go meditate to keep my head clear and she wants to come with me there too now. I wanted to go to lunch with my husband today, we don't do this very often at all, and she refused to stay with my Mom, kept following me to the car, crying. She says she is afraid I will not come back. That I take too long when I go out, I am usually gone 1 1/2 hours, and she gets scared. Offered to call her while gone but that didn't help. I try and reasure her that I will come home (I suppose there is always the possibilty that I will not) but she is not being comforted. My husband is frustrated and though I am holding my patience, inwardly I am feeling not so good about this. I know she will not be little for ever but tomorrow I did agree to work for a friend because my husband is not working and I am not sure how I should handle leaving. She begged to come with me. It is stressful for my husband when she cries for long periods of time which she did not so long ago when this started to be a problem. I have been a stay at home unschooling mom for her whole life. There was one time years ago, that she got lost in a department store, which I rarely if ever go into, obviously was scarry for her. It seems to have gotten worse recently though? Looking for some thoughts on this.
Joanne

Schuyler

Figure out how not to leave her. Don't walk the dogs without her. Don't go to the garage, the front gate, to meditate without her. She's five and she's feeling your absence very pointedly. She won't be five forever. Give her the time she needs to have you with her. It helps if you can see what a sweet thing it is to be able to make the world a better place for her just by being near. That's an amazing gift to be able to give. The world is brighter and safer and better and more full of love and happiness for her when you are near. Cherish that. The more you can make it true, the more you can enjoy being with her, the more that can make your world brighter and safer and better and more full of love and happiness by being near her, well, that's a good thing.


Schuyler



________________________________
From: joanne.lopers <wilmalv@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012, 21:51
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Separation Anxiety in 5 year old Daughter

My daughter will not let me go anywhere without her.  I currently cannot walk the dogs around the block when my husband is home and her neighbor friends are over without her needing to come with me.  We do a coop once a week and if I leave the room for a minute without telling her, she crys.  I try my hardest to tell her every time I go somewhere, out the front gate, to the garage, but I do forget sometimes if she is busy doing something. It is stressful for me to never be able to have a moment away.  I like to go meditate to keep my head clear and she wants to come with me there too now.  I wanted to go to lunch with my husband today, we don't do this very often at all, and she refused to stay with my Mom, kept following me to the car, crying. She says she is afraid I will not come back. That I take too long when I go out, I am usually gone 1 1/2 hours, and she gets scared.  Offered to call her while gone but that didn't help. I try and reasure
her that I will come home (I suppose there is always the possibilty that I will not) but she is not being comforted.  My husband is frustrated and though I am holding my patience, inwardly I am feeling not so good about this.  I know she will not be little for ever but tomorrow I did agree to work for a friend because my husband is not working and I am not sure how I should handle leaving.  She begged to come with me. It is stressful for my husband when she cries for long periods of time which she did not so long ago when this started to be a problem.  I have been a stay at home unschooling mom for her whole life.  There was one time years ago, that she got lost in a department store, which I rarely if ever go into, obviously was scarry for her.  It seems to have gotten worse recently though?  Looking for some thoughts on this.
Joanne



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Sandra Dodd

-=-Figure out how not to leave her. Don't walk the dogs without her. Don't go to the garage, the front gate, to meditate without her. -=-

I agree, but as a Plan B, if she's willing to go somewhere with your husband or another friend (not as a sending her away, but as them taking her to do something COOL!) then you could leave to do your errand or you could meditate after she's gone.

My kids didn't mind being without me so much as they minded seeing me leave. They minded being told "you stay here."
But they also liked being taken cool places by other people. You can combine those two things, if your daughter is that way too.

Sandra

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Meredith

Rather than seeing this as a problem, shift your view to see it as a gift - your little girl adores you sooooooo much she doesn't want to be without you. That's sweet. She won't want you with her forever, so bask in it, savor her adoration - make an active choice to savor rather than chafing.

>>It is stressful for me to never be able to have a moment away. I like to go meditate to keep my head clear and she wants to come with me there too now.
*****************

If you're chafing at her company, it's hard on her, it's giving any anxiety she might have about your absence some validity - you Want to get away from her, and she can tell, so she's going to hold on as hard and tight as she can lest you get away. The more you can relax into her company, enjoy her company, savor her presence, the more She can relax and begin to feel confident in your return.

---Meredith

Karen

>>>>I currently cannot walk the dogs around the block when my husband is home and her neighbor friends are over without her needing to come with me. <<<<

Invite her to come with you every time. There will come a time she will say, "No thanks." Guaranteed. Then she will be moving toward something of her choosing. You might come to cherish those walks with your daughter and dog in your memory as you grow and age.

>>>>We do a coop once a week and if I leave the room for a minute without telling her, she crys. I try my hardest to tell her every time I go somewhere, out the front gate, to the garage, but I do forget sometimes if she is busy doing something.<<<<

If this were me, I would try really hard not to forget. Let her know that you will be stepping away for a moment, and invite her to join you if she wants. Think of it as an act of kindness and love and consideration. It really is. The bonus too is that she will grow to trust you more and more every time you consider her emotional well being. Gradually she won't need to hold on so tightly, but she will also know, without a doubt, that you will do your best to be there if and when she does need you. I don't know because I haven't gotten there yet, but that, to me, seems like it could be a big plus for the teenage years.

>>>>It is stressful for me to never be able to have a moment away. I like to go meditate to keep my head clear and she wants to come with me there too now.<<<<

I like to meditate too. I had to learn how to do that in the presence of my son. If he was immersed in building with blocks or doing some other activity, I would take an inner moment for myself while I sat there with him. It wasn't long and it wasn't easy at first, but it became easier. I think Thich Nhat Hanh has some suggestions for doing meditation in busy places. I remember being in a meditation class a few years ago, and the teacher talked about meditating at a retreat where there was a lot of construction happening very close by. He said the act of meditating in such a noisy environment was one of his most challenging and yet rewarding meditation exercises. I have a card on my fridge that says, "Peace. It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart." Similar thing, I believe.

>>>>I wanted to go to lunch with my husband today, we don't do this very often at all, and she refused to stay with my Mom, kept following me to the car, crying.<<<<

During this time (which really won't last long) maybe you and your husband could pack a picnic lunch, throw a blanket down on the living room floor, put on one of your daughter's favourite movies or get together some of her favourite activities on a special blanket of her own, and share a nice moment with you husband while you daughter is close by. Invite your daughter to join you. She might come and go. She might just stay. Either way, you and your husband can witness her joy while sharing a special moment together. That, to me, would be infinitely more relaxing than going out to lunch after you have just left your daughter crying in a car.

>>>>She says she is afraid I will not come back. That I take too long when I go out, I am usually gone 1 1/2 hours, and she gets scared. Offered to call her while gone but that didn't help. I try and reasure her that I will come home (I suppose there is always the possibilty that I will not) but she is not being comforted.<<<<

I think that the harder you push, the more resistance you will meet. My son, Ethan, liked constant contact until around the age of five or six. He liked to sit right next to me so that our bodies were always touching. If we sat across from each other at the table, he would hook feet with me. We slept together every night and, even then, he was always reaching a leg or an arm out for me in his sleep. He is nine now. He sleeps most nights on his own. He is reasonably confident in his relationships with the people in his life. I remember feeling kind of self conscious for how much time he and I spent together because it was not seen as normal in my family, but he seemed to need it, and, in hindsight, I wouldn't change a moment of it. I passes faster than it ever feels like it could when you are in the moment. There are some nights I really miss that closeness with him. I just want to roll back the clock. But, I can't, and all is as it should be.

>>>>My husband is frustrated and though I am holding my patience, inwardly I am feeling not so good about this.<<<<

My husband grew more okay with my time with Ethan as *I* grew more okay with my time with Ethan. Some of my husband's frustration came from seeing me frustrated. As I learned to love my time with my son, my husband relaxed, loved being with us, and felt more secure being away from us. I made sure that I did lots of little things for my husband too, so that he felt equally loved and not left out. Seeing the positive impact my loving efforts were having on my family kept me moving forward and feeling better about my choices every day.

>>>>I know she will not be little for ever but tomorrow I did agree to work for a friend because my husband is not working and I am not sure how I should handle leaving. She begged to come with me. It is stressful for my husband when she cries for long periods of time which she did not so long ago when this started to be a problem.<<<<

Is there any way your daughter and husband could plan to go to a play place, library, bookstore with trains, park, science center, mall, or some other fun place, while you go to work? If not, can she come with you?

>>>>I have been a stay at home unschooling mom for her whole life. There was one time years ago, that she got lost in a department store, which I rarely if ever go into, obviously was scarry for her. It seems to have gotten worse recently though?<<<<

I noticed at five Ethan's general fears became strong at times, and he began to express emotions in a very big way. I'm not well read on this, but I believe at that age many children are starting to comprehend their independence. That new understanding can probably feel very powerful and very scary.

JustSayin

My son, who is now 8, is still nervous when I am not near. We sometimes get weird looks and comments, but it is who he is. In our case, though, he went to preschool and hated every minute (well, almost) of it. And I hated leaving him. But that's just "what you did" so I did it. His temperament may play a part, but "leaving him" over and over again broke a bond of trust that I still work very hard to get back.

I remember being at a beach gathering a year or so ago and the moms were sitting on chairs farther up from the water and the kids had all gone down to the water. My son wanted me to go down to the water with him. The moms were all giving reasons why he should be able to go by himself, and to be honest I was torn for a moment - lounging around with a cocktail in hand was inviting. But I chose to bring comfort and confidence to my son, and walked to the water with him. There I witnessed the kids happily playing in the water, where they found all sorts of neat sea creatures, and I was able to be by myself with no <adult> distractions. Once he was settled in with the other kids, I stood there on the beach and looked out at the vast Gulf of Mexico with the sun setting slowly and had such a profound sense of peace it still brings tears to my eyes when I think back on it.

Oh what I would have missed if I had said "just go, you're being silly". Not only would I have missed my own profound moment of peace, but I would have eroded the trust that I work so hard to gain. I'm not saying every time you join your daughter where she needs you to be will be like this, but it COULD be. And you don't want to miss it.

5 is so young in the big picture. It won't last forever. I still remember vividly the day my son DIDN'T interrupt me or ask me to play with him several times a day. I felt a little crack in my heart - I thought ah, he saw I didn't want to be with him, and now he doesn't want to be with me (though I'm pretty sure this is not literally true, he was older and better equipped to do things on his own, it's absolutely what I felt at the time). I'm betting you will not like that day either, and you will wish for the days when your daughter longed to be with you all the time.

My choices are usually made by asking myself (and I have to pay homage to Sandra for this) "will this strengthen my relationship with my child?" Within that framework, most choices are pretty easy.

--Melissa

--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> Rather than seeing this as a problem, shift your view to see it as a gift - your little girl adores you sooooooo much she doesn't want to be without you. That's sweet. She won't want you with her forever, so bask in it, savor her adoration - make an active choice to savor rather than chafing.
>
> >>It is stressful for me to never be able to have a moment away. I like to go meditate to keep my head clear and she wants to come with me there too now.
> *****************
>
> If you're chafing at her company, it's hard on her, it's giving any anxiety she might have about your absence some validity - you Want to get away from her, and she can tell, so she's going to hold on as hard and tight as she can lest you get away. The more you can relax into her company, enjoy her company, savor her presence, the more She can relax and begin to feel confident in your return.
>
> ---Meredith
>

usuheinerfam

--- In [email protected], "Karen" <semajrak@...> wrote:
>
> Invite her to come with you every time. There will come a time she >.will say, "No thanks." Guaranteed. Then she will be moving toward >something of her choosing. You might come to cherish those walks >with your daughter and dog in your memory as you grow and age.


I loved every bit of this post because it mirrored how my oldest daughter was. Until she was six years old, I never spent a night apart from her. She didn't spend an entire night in a bed away from me until she was seven.

Now at eight years old she loves to spend the night with one of her cousins, likes being dropped off at friend's houses to play without her siblings around, and only comes into my bed when she needs extra cuddles.

I love the advice to invite her to come with you every time because at the very least it will do two things - help her feel like you want to be with her and if you're feeling grumpy, just the ask of asking sweetly is like smiling when you don't feel like it - it subtly changes your mood just a little bit, sometimes enough to help you really appreciate her insistence that there is no one she'd rather be with than you.
>
> I think that the harder you push, the more resistance you will >meet. My son, Ethan, liked constant contact until around the age of >five or six. He liked to sit right next to me so that our bodies >were always touching. If we sat across from each other at the >table, he would hook feet with me. We slept together every night >>and, even then, he was always reaching a leg or an arm out for me >in his sleep.

The old parenting axiom "What you resist will persist is especially true in this case. You push her away, even subconciously, even out of her hearing, and she will feel it and feel that she's right in her fear that you'll not come back one day or take too long and she'll cling tighter and longer.

Also, just an aside, my oldest daughter was *very* attached, my second daughter was not as 'clingy', and my third child, now 4 years old, didn't want to be touched at all from when he was 4 months old (right after he got out of intensive care at the hospital) until almost right at his 3rd birthday. It's a lot more painful to have a child not want to be touched at all, ever, in any way, even crying out in his sleep if you kiss him, than it is annoying to have a child that wants to touch you all of the time. :)

> I noticed at five Ethan's general fears became strong at times, and >he began to express emotions in a very big way. I'm not well read >on this, but I believe at that age many children are starting to >comprehend their independence. That new understanding can probably >feel very powerful and very scary.
>

I remember in my reading when my oldest was little that this time (5 years old) is when children have been realizing that they're not one with Mommy for a little while and it can scare the crap out of some, that idea that they're 'on their own', even in a supportive family.

I think it was in the fantastic book 'Raising Our Babies, Raising Ourselves' by Meredith Small that she talks about a tribe in Africa that takes advantage of this time in a child's life to cement her/him more fully to the tribe. On a child's fifth birthday they go to sleep in the family bed where they've always slept and in the morning they wake up in a different family's bed in the same tribe. They may pass their mother in the street but she won't acknowledge them until they've accepted that the *tribe* is their family, and the child will never live with their birth family again. It's incredibly harsh and incredibly effective because it's done at just the right age for the transferrance of dependence.

mitrisue

Maybe hearing that it's natural and a shared experience will help? My son, now seven, doesn't even care when I go out the door anymore (and his dad's home), and he's even proud to stay alone in the house with my cell phone number when his sister and I walk across the street to pick something up from the pizzeria. (He can watch us out the front window.) He proudly goes outside by himself to play, and he happily stays inside when I take his sister in the yard, knowing he can call out the window.

He still loves frequent closeness and is not ready to transition out of some aspects of it yet. He doesn't want to go to friends' houses without me. He spends a lot of time in my lap just after he wakes up, and we've got to work hard to keep the peace when he and his sister both want this space exclusively. When we went to observe a hip hop class, he either held my hand or stayed in my lap the whole time.

When the intense need for me recedes, it often happens in a very gradual way I don't notice until later, but it's happening. There were times when I wondered if my particular way of parenting was making him fearful, but that was just mainstream society stirring up muck. His younger sister has a completely different personality, and while she is even more attached than he was in some ways, she'll happily spend a whole afternoon away from me with grandma.

Julie

Sandra Dodd

-=-He proudly goes outside by himself to play, and he happily stays inside when I take his sister in the yard, knowing he can call out the window.-=-

The "proudly" and "happily" are important, because they're about his choices and his power to decide when and how to be separated from his mom.

Early forced separations with tears and fears prevent later proud and happy choices.

Sandra

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Karen

>>>> The "proudly" and "happily" are important, because they're about his choices and his power to decide when and how to be separated from his mom.
>
> Early forced separations with tears and fears prevent later proud and happy choices.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<<<

My proudly and happily were measured by my mom's approval as a child. She needed me to be independent before I was ready, so I quickly learned to get her attention by doing things that relieved her, or made her life easier, or made her proud. It has taken me 40 plus years to even see that, let alone begin to proudly and happily do my thing, my way, for my self. Even today, whenever I visit my mom, I'm still looking for her attention. Giving a child your full attention lasts only a few precious years in a mom's life, but the effects of the withholding of that attention can last a lifetime in the child.

Sandra Dodd

-=-My proudly and happily were measured by my mom's approval as a child. She needed me to be independent before I was ready, so I quickly learned to get her attention by doing things that relieved her, or made her life easier, or made her proud. -=-

Me, too. I appeased her and justified her for a long time, which made it easier for me to stop doing it when I was old enough to see that he was choosing things for her comfort and not so much for the good of others around her.

When I was an older kid, teen, I used to brag that my mom wanted me to be independent, so she sent me to school on my own, rather than taking me.

Even while I could remember the fear and the tears and the confusion on my part, and (in retrospect) the exasperation of the teachers and administrators who helped me, there, crying by myself, somehow my instinctive response to it all was to let it heal into a scar I could be proud of.

Sandra

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