frustrated with 9 year old who rarely wants to participate in family life
Lisa
Hi, my son, Joe, is 9. He has been unschooled since he was 3 after I pulled him out of his second preschool.
My son's day is spent playing with his friends on skype or friends who are sleeping over. My husband works outside of the home, I work at home.
For the most part, we have zero issues. There is one issue though that I feel like is getting worse and I am feeling pretty frustrated about it.
Joe rarely wants to go anywhere, or even wants to go outside. He's not interested in anything that doesn't involve the computer. He used to have many interests - animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books. The summer before last he hung outside with us and would talk to his dad about the garden or go fishing sometimes.
Last summer he stayed inside for a lot of it playing on the computer. He would go swimming, and that was about it. He would go to the park with his friends, but only when his friends were going, not when it was just the family. He started resisting anything else last summer.
This spring we are already starting to have issues. He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.
The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.
If we want to hang out with him, we have to sit on the couch and watch him or play with him. He doesn't come to see what we are up to if we are in the garage or whatever. He won't even watch movies anymore, which was really my husband's last thing that they both enjoyed doing together.
We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.
He seems very happy. It is his father and I that are getting unhappy. His father is really having a hard time with it. Yesterday he said to me "when he got interested in video games this is exactly what I said - as long as he still likes to do other things I'm fine with it"
... and now he doesn't like to do other things.
I'm not sure what to do or think here. please help.
My son's day is spent playing with his friends on skype or friends who are sleeping over. My husband works outside of the home, I work at home.
For the most part, we have zero issues. There is one issue though that I feel like is getting worse and I am feeling pretty frustrated about it.
Joe rarely wants to go anywhere, or even wants to go outside. He's not interested in anything that doesn't involve the computer. He used to have many interests - animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books. The summer before last he hung outside with us and would talk to his dad about the garden or go fishing sometimes.
Last summer he stayed inside for a lot of it playing on the computer. He would go swimming, and that was about it. He would go to the park with his friends, but only when his friends were going, not when it was just the family. He started resisting anything else last summer.
This spring we are already starting to have issues. He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.
The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.
If we want to hang out with him, we have to sit on the couch and watch him or play with him. He doesn't come to see what we are up to if we are in the garage or whatever. He won't even watch movies anymore, which was really my husband's last thing that they both enjoyed doing together.
We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.
He seems very happy. It is his father and I that are getting unhappy. His father is really having a hard time with it. Yesterday he said to me "when he got interested in video games this is exactly what I said - as long as he still likes to do other things I'm fine with it"
... and now he doesn't like to do other things.
I'm not sure what to do or think here. please help.
Sandra Dodd
-=- He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.-=-
Is he an only child?
He's nine. Do you really say "Daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something"? I'm asking, because it seems like baby talk, like talking down to him.
"We would like to go do something" isn't very inviting, either. Does your husband REALLY want to go do something? Do you? Or are you trying to do what you think a family should do when all three are in one place?
If your son attended school, and didn't want to go anywhere when he was home, that wouldn't seem too weird, because you and your husband could be thinking he had "done" lots of things at school (whether it was true or not) and school would seem like being out.
Instead of trying to do something with the family, try adding another child or two.
-=- animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books.-=-
Those aren't necessarily huge hobbies. Maybe his curiosity about animals and bugs was fulfilled. Few people keep the same level of interest in anything for years on end. Reading books is input. If he's getting that input from the computer, that's not sloth or sin. It's still input.
-=-The summer before last he hung outside with us and would talk to his dad about the garden or go fishing sometimes.-=-
According to your account, you were both nicer to him last summer, too.
-=- He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.-=-
Don't ask right on the spot. Maybe make a list now of things that might be worth doing. It might be worth including some overnight trips to towns far enough away the you would need to stay in a motel, or with friends, or camp, but not just to go--to see something interesting. A display of video game art, the history of video games or computers, maybe, in a museum. An amusement park. A cavern or waterfall (I don't know what you're near or what might interest him).
-=-The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.-=-
Is he an only child?
Is the "we" you and him sometimes, and sometimes all three of you?
-=-We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.-=-
Can you hire a babysitter who plays video games, and you and your husband go and do some things?
He won't be nine forever. It's still Spring. You said the problem just started. If you get cranky and pressure him, it will push him away and not draw him toward you.
Sandra
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Is he an only child?
He's nine. Do you really say "Daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something"? I'm asking, because it seems like baby talk, like talking down to him.
"We would like to go do something" isn't very inviting, either. Does your husband REALLY want to go do something? Do you? Or are you trying to do what you think a family should do when all three are in one place?
If your son attended school, and didn't want to go anywhere when he was home, that wouldn't seem too weird, because you and your husband could be thinking he had "done" lots of things at school (whether it was true or not) and school would seem like being out.
Instead of trying to do something with the family, try adding another child or two.
-=- animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books.-=-
Those aren't necessarily huge hobbies. Maybe his curiosity about animals and bugs was fulfilled. Few people keep the same level of interest in anything for years on end. Reading books is input. If he's getting that input from the computer, that's not sloth or sin. It's still input.
-=-The summer before last he hung outside with us and would talk to his dad about the garden or go fishing sometimes.-=-
According to your account, you were both nicer to him last summer, too.
-=- He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.-=-
Don't ask right on the spot. Maybe make a list now of things that might be worth doing. It might be worth including some overnight trips to towns far enough away the you would need to stay in a motel, or with friends, or camp, but not just to go--to see something interesting. A display of video game art, the history of video games or computers, maybe, in a museum. An amusement park. A cavern or waterfall (I don't know what you're near or what might interest him).
-=-The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.-=-
Is he an only child?
Is the "we" you and him sometimes, and sometimes all three of you?
-=-We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.-=-
Can you hire a babysitter who plays video games, and you and your husband go and do some things?
He won't be nine forever. It's still Spring. You said the problem just started. If you get cranky and pressure him, it will push him away and not draw him toward you.
Sandra
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Jenny Cyphers
***He won't even watch movies anymore, which was really my husband's last thing that they both enjoyed doing together. ***
Can you watch movies while you guys play or watch him play? I've done that lots. Half the time, the person playing the game on the computer will become so engrossed in the movie that they will stop playing, or they will do both and we all talk about all of it as it happens. I don't think one is exclusive of the other!
***This spring we are already starting to have issues. He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.***
That would be way to vague for either of my kids. It works way better if I have an idea already planned and have been talking about it for a week. Sometimes being spontaneous works, but usually not since both of my kids will likely have their own agendas already in place.
***He doesn't come to see what we are up to if we are in the garage or whatever.***
If your kid is happy and isn't having problems with what he's doing that would require you be in ear shot, I'd say, go about your stuff. That's what I do. If I recognize that my kid isn't going to be able to be by herself, I stay close by. When I am able to go about my stuff, I make sure I pop in on a very regular basis to check in with her, give her a touch, a comment, a question, a listen, offer food, or bring food or drinks.
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Can you watch movies while you guys play or watch him play? I've done that lots. Half the time, the person playing the game on the computer will become so engrossed in the movie that they will stop playing, or they will do both and we all talk about all of it as it happens. I don't think one is exclusive of the other!
***This spring we are already starting to have issues. He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.***
That would be way to vague for either of my kids. It works way better if I have an idea already planned and have been talking about it for a week. Sometimes being spontaneous works, but usually not since both of my kids will likely have their own agendas already in place.
***He doesn't come to see what we are up to if we are in the garage or whatever.***
If your kid is happy and isn't having problems with what he's doing that would require you be in ear shot, I'd say, go about your stuff. That's what I do. If I recognize that my kid isn't going to be able to be by herself, I stay close by. When I am able to go about my stuff, I make sure I pop in on a very regular basis to check in with her, give her a touch, a comment, a question, a listen, offer food, or bring food or drinks.
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Lisa
> Is he an only child?He is an only child. until november.
> He's nine. Do you really say "Daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something"? I'm asking, because it seems like baby talk, like talking down to him.This is a generalization of what we would say. We never talk down to him and never have.
Yes, my husband DOES really want to go to the lake and go fishing. I do really want to go find something new and fun to do. We are not creating things just for the sake of ... appearances or whatever.
> If your son attended school, and didn't want to go anywhere when he was home, that wouldn't seem too weird, because you and your husband could be thinking he had "done" lots of things at school (whether it was true or not) and school would seem like being out.I don't care that he prefers home to out and about. I do care that he almost never wants to leave the house anymore and absolutely won't do something simple like go ride bikes. I've written about this before to this group - when he wouldn't go walk the dog with me anymore. I've stopped even asking, and now it seems like that was part of something larger.
>We do this, often. But I don't want to do it every time. It's not even possible to do it every time we want to go anywhere.
> Instead of trying to do something with the family, try adding another child or two.
> -=-The summer before last he hung outside with us and would talk to his dad about the garden or go fishing sometimes.-=-Sandra, I really don't understand this. Where in my account did I say that we were nicer to him two years ago and aren't now? And this is not last summer - this was two summers ago. Last summer it was also hard to get him to go anywhere.
>
> According to your account, you were both nicer to him last summer, too.
> -=-The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.-=-Yes, he is an only child, and it is me and him sometimes, all three of us sometimes, and him and his dad sometimes. And him and his friends and us sometimes. Can you explain how this is relevant?
>
> Is he an only child?
> Is the "we" you and him sometimes, and sometimes all three of you?
>
> -=-We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.-=-yes, we do this for small things, but I couldn't imagine going to the lake to swim and fish and hang out and leave my 9 year old son at home with the babysitter. The lake is fun. And we are a family and we want to hang out with Joe.
>
> Can you hire a babysitter who plays video games, and you and your husband go and do some things?
> He won't be nine forever. It's still Spring. You said the problem just started. If you get cranky and pressure him, it will push him away and not draw him toward you.I did not say it just started. I said it started last summer (last spring actually) and is already showing signs of being worse this summer. That's why I feel so frustrated right now.
kelly_sturman
===Yes, my husband DOES really want to go to the lake and go fishing.===
Can you go to a lake that has internet access, and maybe go with another family, and have the adults take turns hanging out with kids, while other adults go out and fish or swim or whatever? That's what our family does when we spend time in the lake.
===I do really want to go find something new and fun to do.===
If you want to do something that is new and fun for you, maybe you could do that while your husband stays home with your son. Another time, you could stay home with your son while your husband goes on a fishing trip.
My younger kids (13, 12, and 11 years old) love chatting online and gaming online with their friends. Their friends introduce them to new songs, new youtube videos, etc., etc. My older son (15) likes to go to the local hobby/gaming shop to hang out with friends there, or invite friends back to the house to play games here. I'm happy that they have friends and that they are tuned in to popular culture; I'm learning what is "in" by being willing to take an interest in their interests. They are introducing me to many new things and it has been a (fun, interesting) challenge for me to "step up my game" as far as strewing their lives with things that are equally interesting as what their friends are strewing in my kids' paths. Often, I take something they've shown me and offer something complementary or tangential. I don't think I would be able to do that well if I were feeling resentful of the time they spend with friends, playing.
Kelly Sturman
Can you go to a lake that has internet access, and maybe go with another family, and have the adults take turns hanging out with kids, while other adults go out and fish or swim or whatever? That's what our family does when we spend time in the lake.
===I do really want to go find something new and fun to do.===
If you want to do something that is new and fun for you, maybe you could do that while your husband stays home with your son. Another time, you could stay home with your son while your husband goes on a fishing trip.
My younger kids (13, 12, and 11 years old) love chatting online and gaming online with their friends. Their friends introduce them to new songs, new youtube videos, etc., etc. My older son (15) likes to go to the local hobby/gaming shop to hang out with friends there, or invite friends back to the house to play games here. I'm happy that they have friends and that they are tuned in to popular culture; I'm learning what is "in" by being willing to take an interest in their interests. They are introducing me to many new things and it has been a (fun, interesting) challenge for me to "step up my game" as far as strewing their lives with things that are equally interesting as what their friends are strewing in my kids' paths. Often, I take something they've shown me and offer something complementary or tangential. I don't think I would be able to do that well if I were feeling resentful of the time they spend with friends, playing.
Kelly Sturman
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes, my husband DOES really want to go to the lake and go fishing. I do really want to go find something new and fun to do. We are not creating things just for the sake of ... appearances or whatever. -=-
Then do those things as a couple, or with other adult friends. Don't miss what you want to do and blame your son.
-=-> Is he an only child?
Yes. You said "we" in different contexts.
You're speaking for the group, you're speaking for each dyad.
-=-> Can you hire a babysitter who plays video games, and you and your husband go and do some things?
-=-yes, we do this for small things, but I couldn't imagine going to the lake to swim and fish and hang out and leave my 9 year old son at home with the babysitter. The lake is fun. ...-=-
It's only playing if everyone is playing.
It's only fun if everyone's having fun.
If it can only be fun if you're all three there, without other people, that sounds like a possible case of co-dependency in one direction or another.
Your son is happy, you say.
I don't want to comb through your post for what you did say and didn't say about when what started and who was being frustrated when, and first, and worst. But you seem to indicate that your husband is frustrated. You are frustrated. Your son is happy.
Spring started one month ago. Summer hasn't come, so it can't be showing signs of being worse this summer yet.
You're glorifying the past, worrying about the future, angsty-angst-angst-angst.
Maybe it will get worse. Maybe he'll be a full-blown agoraphobic. Forcing him out would only make that worse. I doubt that's the situation anyway.
What's MUCH more likely is that you and your husband are making a big deal out of something that doesn't need to be a big deal, and you're risking the relationships you could each, individually, have with your son.
"Family life" isn't something separate from your son that he's not wanting to participate in.
You have a vision of "family life" and he's not cooperating.
It sounds like a control issue, and he might be resisting being controlled. Maybe, maybe not.
You don't need to say what you think is true or wrong about any of this. I kinda wish you wouldn't.
Let people comment and let those comments percolate within you while you think, and wait, and watch.
Sandra
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Then do those things as a couple, or with other adult friends. Don't miss what you want to do and blame your son.
-=-> Is he an only child?
> Is the "we" you and him sometimes, and sometimes all three of you?-=-Yes, he is an only child, and it is me and him sometimes, all three of us sometimes, and him and his dad sometimes. And him and his friends and us sometimes. Can you explain how this is relevant?-=-
Yes. You said "we" in different contexts.
You're speaking for the group, you're speaking for each dyad.
-=-> Can you hire a babysitter who plays video games, and you and your husband go and do some things?
-=-yes, we do this for small things, but I couldn't imagine going to the lake to swim and fish and hang out and leave my 9 year old son at home with the babysitter. The lake is fun. ...-=-
It's only playing if everyone is playing.
It's only fun if everyone's having fun.
If it can only be fun if you're all three there, without other people, that sounds like a possible case of co-dependency in one direction or another.
Your son is happy, you say.
I don't want to comb through your post for what you did say and didn't say about when what started and who was being frustrated when, and first, and worst. But you seem to indicate that your husband is frustrated. You are frustrated. Your son is happy.
Spring started one month ago. Summer hasn't come, so it can't be showing signs of being worse this summer yet.
You're glorifying the past, worrying about the future, angsty-angst-angst-angst.
Maybe it will get worse. Maybe he'll be a full-blown agoraphobic. Forcing him out would only make that worse. I doubt that's the situation anyway.
What's MUCH more likely is that you and your husband are making a big deal out of something that doesn't need to be a big deal, and you're risking the relationships you could each, individually, have with your son.
"Family life" isn't something separate from your son that he's not wanting to participate in.
You have a vision of "family life" and he's not cooperating.
It sounds like a control issue, and he might be resisting being controlled. Maybe, maybe not.
You don't need to say what you think is true or wrong about any of this. I kinda wish you wouldn't.
Let people comment and let those comments percolate within you while you think, and wait, and watch.
Sandra
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My son is 9 and for the last few months he rather be at home doing his things in his computer.
It has been hard for dad. He wants to take MD to do stuff with him but MD will only go when
there is something he really wants to do. Makes sense right!
Forcing the issue or making it an issue only makes MD want to stay home more.
My husband got MD a new bike and they have gone our biking twice.
Maybe he will go more. I do not know.
I can relate to MD because I go through phases that I like to go out and others I love to stay home, read and be in the computer doing a million different things just like my son.
Dad is an athletic guys that is always on the go so he has a hard time understanding that.
I remember when I was 13-14 staying in the house reading Agatha Christie while it was Summer in Brazil and my parents
saying:" Why don;t you go to the pool and get some sun?" It did not change me. I am glad they did not insist or force me.
I changed and changed again.
What I have to say is that forcing the issue only strains our relationship with our son.
My son does go out but when it is something he really wants to do.
He may not want to go to the Zoo anymore but he wants to try Indoor Wall Climbing.
I have heard from other parents that had kids that were happy to stay home around that age.
Maybe he will always be a homebody. Maybe he will change like I did and decides to travel the world when he is older
I was living abroad at 16 and travelled extensively until I was 34.
No I like to stay home a lot too! I am happy going out once or twice a week.
I go out more because my younger daughter likes it but I can stay home happy.
Alex Polikowsky
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It has been hard for dad. He wants to take MD to do stuff with him but MD will only go when
there is something he really wants to do. Makes sense right!
Forcing the issue or making it an issue only makes MD want to stay home more.
My husband got MD a new bike and they have gone our biking twice.
Maybe he will go more. I do not know.
I can relate to MD because I go through phases that I like to go out and others I love to stay home, read and be in the computer doing a million different things just like my son.
Dad is an athletic guys that is always on the go so he has a hard time understanding that.
I remember when I was 13-14 staying in the house reading Agatha Christie while it was Summer in Brazil and my parents
saying:" Why don;t you go to the pool and get some sun?" It did not change me. I am glad they did not insist or force me.
I changed and changed again.
What I have to say is that forcing the issue only strains our relationship with our son.
My son does go out but when it is something he really wants to do.
He may not want to go to the Zoo anymore but he wants to try Indoor Wall Climbing.
I have heard from other parents that had kids that were happy to stay home around that age.
Maybe he will always be a homebody. Maybe he will change like I did and decides to travel the world when he is older
I was living abroad at 16 and travelled extensively until I was 34.
No I like to stay home a lot too! I am happy going out once or twice a week.
I go out more because my younger daughter likes it but I can stay home happy.
Alex Polikowsky
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
No I like to stay home a lot too!
-=-
It should read *Now* I like.....
Alex Polikowsky
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-=-
It should read *Now* I like.....
Alex Polikowsky
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Karen
>>>>> Joe rarely wants to go anywhere, or even wants to go outside. He's not interested in anything that doesn't involve the computer. He used to have many interests - animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books. <<<<<He still has many interests. They may still involve creatures, reading, and a world outside the home. All of those things and more can be found on the computer and in video games. It might be harder for you to see if you are not as engaged as he is in these new interests.
>>>>> Last summer he stayed inside for a lot of it playing on the computer. He would go swimming, and that was about it. He would go to the park with his friends, but only when his friends were going, not when it was just the family. He started resisting anything else last summer.<<<<<The word resisting makes me wonder what he was resisting. From your post, it also very much sounds like you are resisting his interest in the computer and in video games, and lamenting the loss of other more seemingly worthy interests from his earlier childhood. It will be difficult to connect if you are both resisting what each other is interested in. If you want to spend more time together and reconnect with each, maybe bring some things you are interested in to the room your son is playing in. I do this. I draw, work on the computer, knit, build with lego or blocks, make things, do little experiments, read, all right close to my son while he plays his games. He comes and checks out what I'm doing, and I listen to what he is doing. I learn a lot about my son by doing this. Just today I could see he was reading, writing down codes, watching and understanding statistics, learning the how to change the story line of the game by changing strategies, singing along to the music in the game, exploring maps, finding secrets, experimenting with cause and effect, just to name a few things. Very often I play with him, but I'm not as into gaming as he is. I do love it. I just don't play as long or get into all the details and strategies. There are some good books you could read while your son plays. I liked "Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter" by Tom Bissell, "Don't Bother Me Mom - I'm Learning" by Marc Prensky, and "What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy" by James Paul Gee.
>>>>> This spring we are already starting to have issues. He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something". He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.<<<<<Resisting again...What if you said, "Dad's home today. Want to all play some video games together then head to the hobby shop to check out some new games." Maybe on the way, you could stop at his favourite place to eat. Talk to him in the car about his favourite strategy or character. Put on some of his favourite game music. My son loves the Terraria soundtrack, and through listening to it I have developed an appreciation for synthesized music. It's really cool! Maybe on the way home you could swing by a park for a quick game of creeper tag or some such thing. Make the outing centered around him and his interests. Gradually, when you son starts to really appreciate and believe that you understand, appreciate and want to support his interests, you could suggest that for part of the day you can all play games and part of the day you can go to the lake or whatever you and your husband feel like doing as a family. If your son feels your generosity toward his interests, he will likely be more inclined toward generosity as well. If you resist, he will resist. If you mope, he will mope.
>>>>> The other 5 to 6 days a week we exactly what he wants to do. Sit on the couch and play video games.<<<<<Consider what this might sound like to someone who enjoys painting: One day a week we ask her to do something we want to do and she mopes about it. The other 5 to 6 days a week we do exactly what she wants to do - stand around in front of a canvas with a brush in our hands.
>>>>> If we want to hang out with him, we have to sit on the couch and watch him or play with him. He doesn't come to see what we are up to if we are in the garage or whatever. He won't even watch movies anymore, which was really my husband's last thing that they both enjoyed doing together.This all sounds like you and your husband are doing him some great favour by sitting on the couch every day, watching him play or playing video games with him. And, you are doing him this favour despite the fact that you want to have a life apart from video games. How do you think this translates to your son?
>
> We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.<<<<<
>>>>> He seems very happy.<<<<<Yay!!! There is a little boy I know who we are very close to who is very unhappy. He has to go to school every day to learn all of the things he is told he should know. He is struggling with being labelled special needs, while (to me) being incredibly smart, creative and full of wonderful (though sometimes misdirected) energy. He knocks on my door nearly every day asking for things he can't get at home. He is not neglected, but he is misunderstood, and that makes him very, very unhappy. Celebrate and nurture your son's happiness. It is not a given.
Pam Sorooshian
9-year-olds really often like a lot of solitary activity.
Some people are very single-minded in their pursuits - some are samplers
who like to do lots of things. People are different.
Are you sad that he doesn't choose to spend time with you and your husband
just because he loves you (maybe like he did until a couple of years ago)?
Don't make his willingness to walk away from playing his games be a test of
his love for you.
-pam
Some people are very single-minded in their pursuits - some are samplers
who like to do lots of things. People are different.
Are you sad that he doesn't choose to spend time with you and your husband
just because he loves you (maybe like he did until a couple of years ago)?
Don't make his willingness to walk away from playing his games be a test of
his love for you.
-pam
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> "Family life" isn't something separate from your son that he's not wanting
> to participate in.
> You have a vision of "family life" and he's not cooperating.
> It sounds like a control issue, and he might be resisting being
> controlled. Maybe, maybe not.
>
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 23, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Lisa wrote:
The computer isn't just one thing. It's a whole world of things. If you keep stuffing them into one box, you'll keep seeing them as a single interest.
Look at the variety of things he's doing on the computer, not the box.
What you're really saying is he used to have many interests that fit into your idea of the role he should play in the family. Now he doesn't. He's not keeping up his end of the bargain that *you* entered him into when you gave birth to him.
And you're complaining that he's not as easy as you'd like him to be.
Rather than trying to pull him into your world that doesn't meet his needs, make your world more inviting, more interesting for someone with his interests. It's not up to him to come up with ideas. It's not up to him to change who he is to like what you offer. Find new things to offer.
And change your mind set. Right now you're trying to pull him away from the computer. And it's going to frustrate you every time he declines an offer. Instead focus on finding things he enjoys. *Not* finding things he enjoys away from the computer. Don't limit yourself to that. Find things he enjoys.
If you want someone to set aside a busy life to join you for dinner, it helps not to serve them something they don't like. It helps to not get upset with them if they don't like the same foods they did before they became vegan. It helps to accept friends where they are. If too many obligations and expectations are piled on them that they can't meet, it strains relationships.
Your son does want a relationship with you. But not the relationship you're trying to cast him into. He wants you to be his supporters. It's very typical of 9 yo boys. Every year it will be different somehow but it's not going to change back to when he was 8. If you accept him where he's at, you'll maintain a good relationship with him. If you create an ideal mold for him to fit into and keep being disappointed that he's not fitting into it, it will damage the relationship.
It will help you find happiness and maintain a good relationships with your son to not make your happiness dependent on him.
Joyce
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> He's not interested in anything that doesn't involve the computer.If someone said her son's not interested in anything that doesn't involve the outdoors, or a ball, or another person, would it sound like a problem?
The computer isn't just one thing. It's a whole world of things. If you keep stuffing them into one box, you'll keep seeing them as a single interest.
> He used to have many interests - animals, bugs, playing outside, reading books.Unless someone builds them, computers aren't interests. Computers are ways to access interests.
Look at the variety of things he's doing on the computer, not the box.
What you're really saying is he used to have many interests that fit into your idea of the role he should play in the family. Now he doesn't. He's not keeping up his end of the bargain that *you* entered him into when you gave birth to him.
> He would go to the park with his friends, but only when his friends were going, not when it was just the family.It sounds like you and your husband aren't providing the same kind of play as friends do. It's understandable. You're not kids. But you're taking it personally. It's not about you. It's about him finding ways to meet his needs. The need for him to play with you is your need. But it isn't a child's obligation to meet his parents' needs. If you need him to play with you, go to him. Go into his world. If you would like him to be with you, he's more likely to come into your world if what you're offering meets the needs of his right now self, not the person he was 2 years ago, not the ideal son you're holding in your head.
> He says there is nothing he wants to do and he really gets mopey.He's communicating that he doesn't know how to meet his needs with what you're offering.
And you're complaining that he's not as easy as you'd like him to be.
> This spring we are already starting to have issues.Which combination of you is the "we" referring to this time? The issue really isn't with him. IT's with your and your husband's expectations of who he should be. You're picturing a child who happily accompanies his parents on outings to complete the ideal family picture you're holding in your heads. And he's not living up to the ideal. Maybe if you'd let him know that before he was born, he could have picked a different family.
> He is resisting us when we say "daddy is off work today and we would like to go do something"Who is "we"? I'd resist too. It's not inviting. It's a royal pronouncement about how "we" must spend "our" day because "we" have had it up to here not getting "our" needs met.
Rather than trying to pull him into your world that doesn't meet his needs, make your world more inviting, more interesting for someone with his interests. It's not up to him to come up with ideas. It's not up to him to change who he is to like what you offer. Find new things to offer.
And change your mind set. Right now you're trying to pull him away from the computer. And it's going to frustrate you every time he declines an offer. Instead focus on finding things he enjoys. *Not* finding things he enjoys away from the computer. Don't limit yourself to that. Find things he enjoys.
If you want someone to set aside a busy life to join you for dinner, it helps not to serve them something they don't like. It helps to not get upset with them if they don't like the same foods they did before they became vegan. It helps to accept friends where they are. If too many obligations and expectations are piled on them that they can't meet, it strains relationships.
Your son does want a relationship with you. But not the relationship you're trying to cast him into. He wants you to be his supporters. It's very typical of 9 yo boys. Every year it will be different somehow but it's not going to change back to when he was 8. If you accept him where he's at, you'll maintain a good relationship with him. If you create an ideal mold for him to fit into and keep being disappointed that he's not fitting into it, it will damage the relationship.
> We will sit on the couch and play with him and watch him but we want to have lives outside of that.I think this sums up your whole problem here. It's the "we" you're insisting on seeing the family as. You're a collection of unique individuals not a single unit. You and your husband sit and play with him. That's good. If you desire a relationship with someone, going to them is how you do it. You and your husband want more than video games. So find ways to do that.
It will help you find happiness and maintain a good relationships with your son to not make your happiness dependent on him.
Joyce
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Sandra Dodd
-=-And he's not living up to the ideal. Maybe if you'd let him know that before he was born, he could have picked a different family.-=-
EEEK.
:-)
Nine year olds aren't old enough (mature enough, aware enough) to enter into a contract. Neither are unborn babies. :-)
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EEEK.
:-)
Nine year olds aren't old enough (mature enough, aware enough) to enter into a contract. Neither are unborn babies. :-)
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Lisa
I've spent some time thinking about this and the responses I received. I have gained more clarity on exactly what about this situation is bothering me and it is this.
I am 100% on board with unschooling and unschooling principles and I spend a lot of time every day thinking about it and trying to improve my thoughts and behaviors.
My husband is not 100% on board with unschooling. He sees the value in much of it, because he sees how happy and healthy our son is and how much he is learning.
If it were just me and my son, we probably would stay home and not go anywhere unless my son wanted to. I enjoy going new places and doing new things but now that I am a mother that has taken a backseat to my son's preferences and desires.
However, it is not just me and my son. It is me, my husband, and our son. There is very little chance that anything I could ever say would convince my husband that Joe should not be outside playing in the sunshine at least once every few days. I strongly doubt that I will ever be able to convince my husband that staying home and indoors all year long is good for Joe.
My husband is actually really good about most of the things that I want for Joe - free access to his friends, free access to his own computer, no arbitrary restrictions or limits or requirements on anything - but I am afraid that this is going to be the issue that makes my husband come down a lot on unschooling and really start to be against it in some ways.
I don't want him to be against it at all.
This may be angst, angst, angst, but I personally feel like I am acting like I would act with two siblings who have a tendency to fight. I'm right there, trying to head off the trouble before it starts. I'm foreseeing the issue and trying to figure out how I can make it better for everyone. This is what I need help with.
I am 100% on board with unschooling and unschooling principles and I spend a lot of time every day thinking about it and trying to improve my thoughts and behaviors.
My husband is not 100% on board with unschooling. He sees the value in much of it, because he sees how happy and healthy our son is and how much he is learning.
If it were just me and my son, we probably would stay home and not go anywhere unless my son wanted to. I enjoy going new places and doing new things but now that I am a mother that has taken a backseat to my son's preferences and desires.
However, it is not just me and my son. It is me, my husband, and our son. There is very little chance that anything I could ever say would convince my husband that Joe should not be outside playing in the sunshine at least once every few days. I strongly doubt that I will ever be able to convince my husband that staying home and indoors all year long is good for Joe.
My husband is actually really good about most of the things that I want for Joe - free access to his friends, free access to his own computer, no arbitrary restrictions or limits or requirements on anything - but I am afraid that this is going to be the issue that makes my husband come down a lot on unschooling and really start to be against it in some ways.
I don't want him to be against it at all.
This may be angst, angst, angst, but I personally feel like I am acting like I would act with two siblings who have a tendency to fight. I'm right there, trying to head off the trouble before it starts. I'm foreseeing the issue and trying to figure out how I can make it better for everyone. This is what I need help with.
Sandra Dodd
-=-My husband is actually really good about most of the things that I want for Joe - free access to his friends, free access to his own computer, no arbitrary restrictions or limits or requirements on anything - but I am afraid that this is going to be the issue that makes my husband come down a lot on unschooling and really start to be against it in some ways.-=-
Then tell your son that. Tell him that if he wants to keep unschooling, he needs to schedule time out, and time with his dad. Make that the cost of unschooling, and make it light and happy.
The learning curves will cross, and at some point your husband will probably relax about his worries.
Going to a conference where other dads and kids are would help your husband.
-=I personally feel like I am acting like I would act with two siblings who have a tendency to fight.-=-
But your husband has more say, more ownership, more veto power over the situation than your son does, so it might have been a mistake to move so far toward unschooling with an unsold partner. It's something a couple needs to decide together.
If I went and bought a Mercedes convertible this afternoon and told my husband it was going to be find, eventually, and wrote to the Mercedes owners discussion list (if there is one; probably is) and said
I am 100% on board with Mercedes ownership and principles, and I spend a lot of time every day thinking about it and trying to improve my Mercedes-owner thoughts and behaviors.
My husband is not 100% on board with my owning that Mercedes.... I don't think many people would suggest I should continue as I was going.
You could tell your son you moved too fast for his dad, and he doesn't need to go to school, but that you (the two of you, you and your son) do need to figure out how to schedule and do the things his dad wants, too.
Sandra
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Then tell your son that. Tell him that if he wants to keep unschooling, he needs to schedule time out, and time with his dad. Make that the cost of unschooling, and make it light and happy.
The learning curves will cross, and at some point your husband will probably relax about his worries.
Going to a conference where other dads and kids are would help your husband.
-=I personally feel like I am acting like I would act with two siblings who have a tendency to fight.-=-
But your husband has more say, more ownership, more veto power over the situation than your son does, so it might have been a mistake to move so far toward unschooling with an unsold partner. It's something a couple needs to decide together.
If I went and bought a Mercedes convertible this afternoon and told my husband it was going to be find, eventually, and wrote to the Mercedes owners discussion list (if there is one; probably is) and said
I am 100% on board with Mercedes ownership and principles, and I spend a lot of time every day thinking about it and trying to improve my Mercedes-owner thoughts and behaviors.
My husband is not 100% on board with my owning that Mercedes.... I don't think many people would suggest I should continue as I was going.
You could tell your son you moved too fast for his dad, and he doesn't need to go to school, but that you (the two of you, you and your son) do need to figure out how to schedule and do the things his dad wants, too.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 24, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Don't say it in a rule-like way. It's a kindness toward your husband to help him feel less uncomfortable. It's something that you're both going to work on together to help Dad.
It's in the same vein as putting on headphones to keep noise down. Or not eating that smelly cheese he doesn't like when he's around ;-) Think of it like that.
Brainstorm ideas together in a fun way.
Keep revisiting it and talk with your son about what's working and what isn't and make changes.
Joyce
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> Then tell your son that. Tell him that if he wants to keep unschooling,Sandra beat me to what I was going to say.
> he needs to schedule time out, and time with his dad.
Don't say it in a rule-like way. It's a kindness toward your husband to help him feel less uncomfortable. It's something that you're both going to work on together to help Dad.
It's in the same vein as putting on headphones to keep noise down. Or not eating that smelly cheese he doesn't like when he's around ;-) Think of it like that.
Brainstorm ideas together in a fun way.
Keep revisiting it and talk with your son about what's working and what isn't and make changes.
Joyce
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Pam Sorooshian
Also - you are very vague about exactly what his dad wants him to do. Go
fishing at the lake with him - play outdoors - go to some unspecified new
places....
If I was in your shoes, I'd think about some places to go and some things
to do that I thought would be most likely to interest my child.
You must have insisted he do some things that didn't work well for him or
he would not be so resistant. So - make up for that by doing some super
super cool things at least for the next things you insist on. Don't try to
make him go fishing at the lake because his DAD likes that. Think about the
real little boy you have there - not some imaginary kid who "should" like
"doing things and going places."
Entice him to go with you and your husband to something super fun AND take
a friend of his along. Make the outings so fun that he starts to change his
attitude. Does he have a DS or something portable to play with in the car?
Take a friend - I know you said you don't always want to because YOU have
this idealized image of your family togetherness and it doesn't include his
attention being on his friend and not you and his dad. I get that. But take
this one step at a time. If he goes with you and brings a friend and they
have a really good time - then you've made some progress with finding out
what is fun for him to do with you and HE has a positive experience that
might reduce his resistance to going along with just you guys another time.
He's into videogames - what about a midnight release for a new game where
you go wait for hours in line with other game fans? That's outdoors! <G>
The teens who help plan the HomeSchool Association of California conference
did something really cool last year - they created a live-action Mario
game...it had mini-trampolines for jumping and all KINDS of cool stuff -
including Mario himself! This year they're doing another videogame (I can't
remember which). It was a huge hit! My local homeschool group did a
"Zoombinis Day" once - that is an old computer game...and everyone dressed
like all the characters and the kids went around and solved puzzles like in
the game. Maybe your husband would help him create a live action version of
his favorite game and invite some friends over to play (outdoors).
We went to a museum once that had all kinds of amazing art from World of
Warcraft...I did not know the game but the art was incredible and we spent
an hour or two there - maybe more - and I thought it was super fun and
interesting. LOOK for videogame related events and exhibits and activities.
SUPPORT his interest and expand his world.
There are concerts (often concerts in the park for free) which do an entire
program of music from videogames - I've been to several of them.
"Go outside and play" is too vague, these days. That feels like being
pushed out - not drawn out by something enticing. Might he like to
skateboard? Build a ramp? Play croquet? You said he likes swimming - can
you set up a regular, maybe daily, swimming opportunity? Can you get one of
those big above-ground pools (assuming you don't have a backyard pool).
Would he like a trampoline to play on when his friends are over?
About his friends - he likes sleepovers with friends....where is he meeting
them and what do they do when having sleepovers? Maybe you can take him and
some friends to hit baseballs or drive bumpercars or play miniature golf?
I think you need to be careful about not too quickly rejecting ideas and
you need to be more creative and specific about what you want him to do
with you. And get over not wanting his friend along - if that makes it
palatable for him, then that's an easy way to make it happen more easily.
-pam
fishing at the lake with him - play outdoors - go to some unspecified new
places....
If I was in your shoes, I'd think about some places to go and some things
to do that I thought would be most likely to interest my child.
You must have insisted he do some things that didn't work well for him or
he would not be so resistant. So - make up for that by doing some super
super cool things at least for the next things you insist on. Don't try to
make him go fishing at the lake because his DAD likes that. Think about the
real little boy you have there - not some imaginary kid who "should" like
"doing things and going places."
Entice him to go with you and your husband to something super fun AND take
a friend of his along. Make the outings so fun that he starts to change his
attitude. Does he have a DS or something portable to play with in the car?
Take a friend - I know you said you don't always want to because YOU have
this idealized image of your family togetherness and it doesn't include his
attention being on his friend and not you and his dad. I get that. But take
this one step at a time. If he goes with you and brings a friend and they
have a really good time - then you've made some progress with finding out
what is fun for him to do with you and HE has a positive experience that
might reduce his resistance to going along with just you guys another time.
He's into videogames - what about a midnight release for a new game where
you go wait for hours in line with other game fans? That's outdoors! <G>
The teens who help plan the HomeSchool Association of California conference
did something really cool last year - they created a live-action Mario
game...it had mini-trampolines for jumping and all KINDS of cool stuff -
including Mario himself! This year they're doing another videogame (I can't
remember which). It was a huge hit! My local homeschool group did a
"Zoombinis Day" once - that is an old computer game...and everyone dressed
like all the characters and the kids went around and solved puzzles like in
the game. Maybe your husband would help him create a live action version of
his favorite game and invite some friends over to play (outdoors).
We went to a museum once that had all kinds of amazing art from World of
Warcraft...I did not know the game but the art was incredible and we spent
an hour or two there - maybe more - and I thought it was super fun and
interesting. LOOK for videogame related events and exhibits and activities.
SUPPORT his interest and expand his world.
There are concerts (often concerts in the park for free) which do an entire
program of music from videogames - I've been to several of them.
"Go outside and play" is too vague, these days. That feels like being
pushed out - not drawn out by something enticing. Might he like to
skateboard? Build a ramp? Play croquet? You said he likes swimming - can
you set up a regular, maybe daily, swimming opportunity? Can you get one of
those big above-ground pools (assuming you don't have a backyard pool).
Would he like a trampoline to play on when his friends are over?
About his friends - he likes sleepovers with friends....where is he meeting
them and what do they do when having sleepovers? Maybe you can take him and
some friends to hit baseballs or drive bumpercars or play miniature golf?
I think you need to be careful about not too quickly rejecting ideas and
you need to be more creative and specific about what you want him to do
with you. And get over not wanting his friend along - if that makes it
palatable for him, then that's an easy way to make it happen more easily.
-pam
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> You could tell your son you moved too fast for his dad, and he doesn't
> need to go to school, but that you (the two of you, you and your son) do
> need to figure out how to schedule and do the things his dad wants, too.
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Heather
Last Saturday, I drove my son 2 hrs north, picked up a friend of his (that
he met playing xbox online), went to dinner and then to the symphony.
The symphony played music from the Zelda video games and had some Zelda
video in the background.
They boys (both age 16) LOVED it.
Maybe you can find something near you.
http://zelda-symphony.com/
heather
he met playing xbox online), went to dinner and then to the symphony.
The symphony played music from the Zelda video games and had some Zelda
video in the background.
They boys (both age 16) LOVED it.
Maybe you can find something near you.
http://zelda-symphony.com/
heather
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:
> **
>
>
>
>
> He's into videogames - what about a midnight release for a new game where
> you go wait for hours in line with other game fans? That's outdoors! <G>
>
....
>
> We went to a museum once that had all kinds of amazing art from World of
> Warcraft...I did not know the game but the art was incredible and we spent
> an hour or two there - maybe more - and I thought it was super fun and
> interesting. LOOK for videogame related events and exhibits and activities.
> SUPPORT his interest and expand his world.
>
> There are concerts (often concerts in the park for free) which do an entire
> program of music from videogames - I've been to several of them.
>
>
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