Considerations about anonymity and "screen names"
Sandra Dodd
The minecraft writing I've linked and quoted is really great, and I wanted to quote it on my site, and I got permission. But the mom didn't want her name on it. And I want to credit people I quote.
But I do have some things on my site quoted with just a "screenname" or e-mail prefix. It seems unfair to me, though, for someone not to get credit (acknowledgment, word-fame, whatever it might be) for a great idea worth sharing.
But here's that writer's justification for not using her name.
http://mystifiedmom.blogspot.com/2011/06/separating-message-from-messenger.html
Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?
When and why might it be important to know people's names?
I think it's an interesting question, even if just discussed separate from whether or not to quote that cool piece of writing.
Sandra
But I do have some things on my site quoted with just a "screenname" or e-mail prefix. It seems unfair to me, though, for someone not to get credit (acknowledgment, word-fame, whatever it might be) for a great idea worth sharing.
But here's that writer's justification for not using her name.
http://mystifiedmom.blogspot.com/2011/06/separating-message-from-messenger.html
Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?
When and why might it be important to know people's names?
I think it's an interesting question, even if just discussed separate from whether or not to quote that cool piece of writing.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
I'm responding to my own question already. I don't want the blogger to think I'm criticizing her blog. That's not it. I'm concerned about separating writing and writer. And *I* like to know who's writing. I want to know whether it's someone I trust, whose kids I respect, who has been helpful and not hurtful to others exploring unschooling.
And I do know who it is, so it's not that.
And there might be reasons for people to be incognito.
Some people might not care where ideas come from.
Some do. That difference is probably fine.
Sandra
And I do know who it is, so it's not that.
And there might be reasons for people to be incognito.
Some people might not care where ideas come from.
Some do. That difference is probably fine.
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?
When and why might it be important to know people's names?
I think it's an interesting question, even if just discussed separate from whether or not to quote that cool piece of writing.***
For whatever it's worth, it took me less than 10 minutes to find out who wrote the "anonymous" writing.
I like to know who says what, that's just me. It was like a mystery I needed to figure out. However, if you copied the writing onto your blog and listed it as "Mystified Mom", that might be enough because it's a screen name. Like people who write books under another name.
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When and why might it be important to know people's names?
I think it's an interesting question, even if just discussed separate from whether or not to quote that cool piece of writing.***
For whatever it's worth, it took me less than 10 minutes to find out who wrote the "anonymous" writing.
I like to know who says what, that's just me. It was like a mystery I needed to figure out. However, if you copied the writing onto your blog and listed it as "Mystified Mom", that might be enough because it's a screen name. Like people who write books under another name.
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Sure Some people may say things that make sense and are great even if they themselves do
not truly understand or even embrace them.
But are they just repeating something they heard?
If I don't trust someone's advice and that person writes something awesome does
that change how I see the person? Does it make me trust that person?
Alex Polikowsky
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not truly understand or even embrace them.
But are they just repeating something they heard?
If I don't trust someone's advice and that person writes something awesome does
that change how I see the person? Does it make me trust that person?
Alex Polikowsky
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Glenda
=== It seems unfair to me, though, for someone not to get credit
(acknowledgment, word-fame, whatever it might be) for a great idea worth sharing.===
I have a thing or two quoted on your site and if my name wasn't attached to them that would be okay by me. I don't think of it in terms of fair or unfair -- I would be just as comfortable sharing the info without any sort of acknowledgement.
Now, I wouldn't want someone taking my words and attaching their own name to them, so having my name (or screen name) attached is helpful in that respect.
And I'll admit it was neat when you quoted something by me on Just Add Light & Stir, because it was something I didn't recall writing and I was impressed, now, by what I was able to articulate back then. I don't know that I would've recognized myself as the writer if you hadn't identified me, but I still would've enjoyed the writing regardless -- and I'm happy for that quote to be shared regardless of whether it's credited to me or not.
===Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?===
I read a lot of things on your site and I don't often look to see who wrote them. But when I read your site I feel that you've already vetted the content and that what I read there will fall in line with my own views of unschooling and parenting.
In this particular example (of the blog post re: Minecraft), I don't find the information any less valuable or thought-provoking because of not having the author's name attached.
However, because of the age of my child and the number of years we've been unschooling, I'm pretty comfortable reading something described as "unschooling" and determining if it's radical unschooling in the way discussed on this list.
When we were new to unschooling, it definitely helped having names attached to writings because it helped me figure out whose writing I wanted to read more of, which ties into your question about when and why it might be important to know people's names. That said, it wouldn't matter to me if it was that person's real name or a screen name, as long as it was what they consistently used in their writing.
Glenda
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(acknowledgment, word-fame, whatever it might be) for a great idea worth sharing.===
I have a thing or two quoted on your site and if my name wasn't attached to them that would be okay by me. I don't think of it in terms of fair or unfair -- I would be just as comfortable sharing the info without any sort of acknowledgement.
Now, I wouldn't want someone taking my words and attaching their own name to them, so having my name (or screen name) attached is helpful in that respect.
And I'll admit it was neat when you quoted something by me on Just Add Light & Stir, because it was something I didn't recall writing and I was impressed, now, by what I was able to articulate back then. I don't know that I would've recognized myself as the writer if you hadn't identified me, but I still would've enjoyed the writing regardless -- and I'm happy for that quote to be shared regardless of whether it's credited to me or not.
===Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?===
I read a lot of things on your site and I don't often look to see who wrote them. But when I read your site I feel that you've already vetted the content and that what I read there will fall in line with my own views of unschooling and parenting.
In this particular example (of the blog post re: Minecraft), I don't find the information any less valuable or thought-provoking because of not having the author's name attached.
However, because of the age of my child and the number of years we've been unschooling, I'm pretty comfortable reading something described as "unschooling" and determining if it's radical unschooling in the way discussed on this list.
When we were new to unschooling, it definitely helped having names attached to writings because it helped me figure out whose writing I wanted to read more of, which ties into your question about when and why it might be important to know people's names. That said, it wouldn't matter to me if it was that person's real name or a screen name, as long as it was what they consistently used in their writing.
Glenda
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Robin Bentley
> But here's that writer's justification for not using her name.I don't know - I'm not sure I buy the "separating the message from the
>
> http://mystifiedmom.blogspot.com/2011/06/separating-message-from-messenger.html
messenger". To use the original saying "Don't shoot the messenger" -
the messenger is not the author of the message. If someone didn't like
the message, they should shoot the author!
So why would she craft intelligent posts, only to keep her identify a
secret? Do you think someone would dismiss her because her name is
otherwise associated with...I don't know...racism? sexism? porn?
>Anonymous quotes are okay if they're folk wisdom :-). And if you use
> Any thoughts about me quoting it without the name?
"MystifiedMom" she already has a presence of sorts, being identified
by that blog name. I suppose the blog could be collected writings of
others. I'd have to read all the posts to determine her "voice". Not
enough time in my day!
>When I want to be able to trust the information. When I want to be
> When and why might it be important to know people's names?
sure someone isn't plagiarizing or quoting someone without attribution.
If a writer won't provide a real name or a real family, why should I
trust the information? Why should I respect someone's opinion on
parenting or radical unschooling (or race car driving or dancing hula)
if they've never done it? If the author is a single man who's never
been married or had children likes to wax philosophical on such
subjects, why would I listen to him? Oh, wait. That's John Holt :-)
But Holt used his own name and became well-known; his experience as a
teacher and his thoughtful real life led me to trust his ideas.
In contrast, Gordon Neufeld has been touted over the years in
attachment parenting/homeschooling circles for his book "Hold on to
Your Kids". He wrote about protecting parent-child relationships,
which segued nicely with a unschooling perspective and he highly
recommended homeschooling/unschooling. He made a lot of money talking
at La Leche League conferences and homeschooling events. But he
wouldn't ever consider homeschooling his own kids. He didn't have
much cred with me after I discovered that. I feel much the same way
about Alfie Kohn; can't make the leap, even though he makes money from
us.
I like to know who people are. I like to see their real lives if they
are giving me advice on how my real life can be better.
Robin B.
catfish_friend
> --- I feel much the same way about Alfie Kohn; can't make the leap, even though he makes money from us. ---I saw Alfie Kohn speak recently at a private school. It was open to the public and I heard about it through a local parenting list. Another mom on the list has been working on a documentary about Unschooling and mentioned that Alfie Kohn was unwilling to be in her documentary because his bread and butter came from speaking engagements at schools; Kohn advocating Unschooling (or any homeschooling) is a conflict of interest as he makes his money from schools speaking about school reform.
I am glad that Kohn is challenging schools and parents of schooled kids to change the school paradigm -- i.e. no homework, no punishments or rewards, not teaching to the test, etc. I am also glad that I don't have to send my children to school and wait for the schools and the culture around them to evolve to something more child-friendly. I am grateful for the experienced unschooling parents who give of their time and energy freely to help me learn about unschooling. I definitely give those people more credit than people like Kohn or Neufeld or Sir Ken Robinson who, while they may be known by more people for their ideas and books, I wonder what their children or their home lives are like.
Ceci
Sandra Dodd
-=- I am also glad that I don't have to send my children to school and wait for the schools and the culture around them to evolve to something more child-friendly.-=-
Kohn doesn't "have to" send his children to school either, but he has chosen to. He doesn't agree with homeschooling, but will speak at their conferences for money.
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Kohn doesn't "have to" send his children to school either, but he has chosen to. He doesn't agree with homeschooling, but will speak at their conferences for money.
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Sandra Dodd
-=-
I like to know who people are. I like to see their real lives if they
are giving me advice on how my real life can be better.-=-
That might be the deciding factor on the Minecraft article. It's not advice. It's effusive, glowing analysis of what's being learned by kids who don't know they're learning.
It becomes a problem then, for me (not for everyone) to divide (which I've never done before) accounts from advice.
I have a fairly big collection of "typical days" and those aren't "advice." They're accounts. And many of them only have one name, and not full ID and place and date. They're like snapshots, but I had reason to believe that the people who wrote those were real people who were unschooling, at the time, even though I don't know exactly who they all are, or what they're doing five or ten years later. Still, the accounts of those days are breezy and energetic and fun.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Like this:
Funny how the happiest days are full of small joys instead of major undertakings.
[Seahawks game, mail, calculator, playing bank, neighbor-baby, 19th century nautical history, hangman, sharing, relaxing] �df/dragonfly
"dragonfly" is Ronnie Maier, who started using her name, but didn't always.
There are people who write to me on facebook or by e-mail who say "Hi, I am (X) and used to be (Y) on AOL" and I had no idea those two (or three) were the same person, and some of them have contributed good ideas and quotes.
Maybe it's my own personal need to categorize and sort that makes me wish people would clearly identify themselves. :-)
Sandra
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I like to know who people are. I like to see their real lives if they
are giving me advice on how my real life can be better.-=-
That might be the deciding factor on the Minecraft article. It's not advice. It's effusive, glowing analysis of what's being learned by kids who don't know they're learning.
It becomes a problem then, for me (not for everyone) to divide (which I've never done before) accounts from advice.
I have a fairly big collection of "typical days" and those aren't "advice." They're accounts. And many of them only have one name, and not full ID and place and date. They're like snapshots, but I had reason to believe that the people who wrote those were real people who were unschooling, at the time, even though I don't know exactly who they all are, or what they're doing five or ten years later. Still, the accounts of those days are breezy and energetic and fun.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Like this:
Funny how the happiest days are full of small joys instead of major undertakings.
[Seahawks game, mail, calculator, playing bank, neighbor-baby, 19th century nautical history, hangman, sharing, relaxing] �df/dragonfly
"dragonfly" is Ronnie Maier, who started using her name, but didn't always.
There are people who write to me on facebook or by e-mail who say "Hi, I am (X) and used to be (Y) on AOL" and I had no idea those two (or three) were the same person, and some of them have contributed good ideas and quotes.
Maybe it's my own personal need to categorize and sort that makes me wish people would clearly identify themselves. :-)
Sandra
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sheeboo2
---So why would she craft intelligent posts, only to keep her identify a secret? Do you think someone would dismiss her because her name is otherwise associated with...I don't know...racism? sexism? porn?-----
Maybe because her children are young still and she lives somewhere conservative, has conservative, unschooling-hostile family members, feels like her views could get her and her family in trouble? Perhaps a job she's afraid to loose?
When I first started keeping a blog it was private, only viewable to people who had a password. For me, that was the only way I was comfortable putting our lives "out there." After some months, and some suggestions to make the blog more public, I considered removing my name and Noor's because I was concerned about the way the information and daily accounts could at some point be used against us, because we live somewhere with tougher-than-avaergae home education laws. When I was still teaching at a local university, I stayed off Facebook, and also kept our blog private for similar reasons.
It took me quite a while to feel confident enough in my ability to defend what we do if the need ever arose from being "public" about our full-on radical unschooling. Was I being paranoid? Maybe. But being private felt right to me for some time, and I can absolutely understand where the desire to protect your family from people who don't understand comes from.
I know the mom who wrote the post. We've been learning and traveling this road of radical unschooling together for a number of years. I don't think her intention was to remain anonymous to this group, but she prefers to blog anonymously. I think something might have been lost in that part of the conversation, maybe.
Brie
Maybe because her children are young still and she lives somewhere conservative, has conservative, unschooling-hostile family members, feels like her views could get her and her family in trouble? Perhaps a job she's afraid to loose?
When I first started keeping a blog it was private, only viewable to people who had a password. For me, that was the only way I was comfortable putting our lives "out there." After some months, and some suggestions to make the blog more public, I considered removing my name and Noor's because I was concerned about the way the information and daily accounts could at some point be used against us, because we live somewhere with tougher-than-avaergae home education laws. When I was still teaching at a local university, I stayed off Facebook, and also kept our blog private for similar reasons.
It took me quite a while to feel confident enough in my ability to defend what we do if the need ever arose from being "public" about our full-on radical unschooling. Was I being paranoid? Maybe. But being private felt right to me for some time, and I can absolutely understand where the desire to protect your family from people who don't understand comes from.
I know the mom who wrote the post. We've been learning and traveling this road of radical unschooling together for a number of years. I don't think her intention was to remain anonymous to this group, but she prefers to blog anonymously. I think something might have been lost in that part of the conversation, maybe.
Brie
Sandra Dodd
-=- I don't think her intention was to remain anonymous to this group, but she prefers to blog anonymously. I think something might have been lost in that part of the conversation, maybe.-=-
She wasn't anonymous to me. :-)
But if I put the writing on my site without her name.... that was my question. Anonymity on a blog, once the blog is quoted with a name, is gone. And if people are concerned about people "googling" them, then I should probably not put their names out there.
I was asking the question as a general philosophical question but using real examples (and that great Minecraft stuff).
Sandra
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She wasn't anonymous to me. :-)
But if I put the writing on my site without her name.... that was my question. Anonymity on a blog, once the blog is quoted with a name, is gone. And if people are concerned about people "googling" them, then I should probably not put their names out there.
I was asking the question as a general philosophical question but using real examples (and that great Minecraft stuff).
Sandra
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Robin Bentley
>Of course. I was being facetious, really, and talking more about
> Maybe because her children are young still and she lives somewhere
> conservative, has conservative, unschooling-hostile family members,
> feels like her views could get her and her family in trouble?
> Perhaps a job she's afraid to loose?
bloggers generally (although I see how it came across as specifically).
>But this blog is public, not private, right? Can't anyone read it?
> When I first started keeping a blog it was private, only viewable to
> people who had a password. For me, that was the only way I was
> comfortable putting our lives "out there." After some months, and
> some suggestions to make the blog more public, I considered removing
> my name and Noor's because I was concerned about the way the
> information and daily accounts could at some point be used against
> us, because we live somewhere with tougher-than-avaergae home
> education laws. When I was still teaching at a local university, I
> stayed off Facebook, and also kept our blog private for similar
> reasons.
>
> It took me quite a while to feel confident enough in my ability to
> defend what we do if the need ever arose from being "public" about
> our full-on radical unschooling. Was I being paranoid? Maybe. But
> being private felt right to me for some time, and I can absolutely
> understand where the desire to protect your family from people who
> don't understand comes from.
>I thought Sandra was asking in a philosophical way, not a "this
> I know the mom who wrote the post. We've been learning and traveling
> this road of radical unschooling together for a number of years. I
> don't think her intention was to remain anonymous to this group, but
> she prefers to blog anonymously. I think something might have been
> lost in that part of the conversation, maybe.
person" way.
I think it's fine that your friend wants to keep her identity private.
I said that identifying her as MystifiedMom is fine, as it's her
"name" and her post is very cool. I'm saying *I* prefer to know who's
speaking when I'm considering advice.
Robin B.
Meredith
I'm not so much bothered by the lack of a name as that it wasn't easy to figure out the ages of her kids. She mentioned a 3yo, and refers to others, and maybe I could hunt out the rest somehow, but not once the piece is quoted elsewhere. That might not invalidate what she's saying - there are certainly clues in the piece which suggest the rough ages - but it can skew the information and perspectives.
---Meredith
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
IN the blog under the tab ( about me) you can read the age of the children.
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Considerations about anonymity and "screen names"
I'm not so much bothered by the lack of a name as that it wasn't easy to figure out the ages of her kids. She mentioned a 3yo, and refers to others, and maybe I could hunt out the rest somehow, but not once the piece is quoted elsewhere. That might not invalidate what she's saying - there are certainly clues in the piece which suggest the rough ages - but it can skew the information and perspectives.
---Meredith
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Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Considerations about anonymity and "screen names"
I'm not so much bothered by the lack of a name as that it wasn't easy to figure out the ages of her kids. She mentioned a 3yo, and refers to others, and maybe I could hunt out the rest somehow, but not once the piece is quoted elsewhere. That might not invalidate what she's saying - there are certainly clues in the piece which suggest the rough ages - but it can skew the information and perspectives.
---Meredith
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
In my wanderings around the internet I have come across sites about parenting or homeschooling/unschooling ( can't remember specifics)
that had some nice things written. Every time I have looked for information on who was behind them and if they had kids, ages etc.
When I did not find those I have just mostly just lost interest in the site. Maybe it is my issue.
I have also been in an unschooling group where some frequent posters would write some interesting ideas but then they would also write
in other posts how they were always fighting with their kids or their kids chose school , or how their kids were depressed or were having auto destructive behaviors. The picture they painted of their children and their relationships was not a peaceful joyful one.
That makes me more skeptical of what they write for sure.
I feel the same way about stuff written by Maria Montessori. As much as she has written some wonderful things she , herself, did not even raise her son but wrote repeatedly how the parents are the most important people in a child's life.
John Holt same thing. While I do , like with Maria, appreciate what he has to say about how children learn and some of their great observations about children learning, their parenting advice is something that I would not take in consideration as much or at all.
I remember reading Holt talk about a child that did not like to be away from her mom and how they push her to separate and that she did fine in the end.
I remember not agreeing with that at all. My son was not one to go with anyone but me, his dad and maybe his grandmothers. Doing that to him
would have definitely done some harm in his trust. He separates just fine now and have for many years without needing any of what he thought it was good for that child.
Alex Polikowsky
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that had some nice things written. Every time I have looked for information on who was behind them and if they had kids, ages etc.
When I did not find those I have just mostly just lost interest in the site. Maybe it is my issue.
I have also been in an unschooling group where some frequent posters would write some interesting ideas but then they would also write
in other posts how they were always fighting with their kids or their kids chose school , or how their kids were depressed or were having auto destructive behaviors. The picture they painted of their children and their relationships was not a peaceful joyful one.
That makes me more skeptical of what they write for sure.
I feel the same way about stuff written by Maria Montessori. As much as she has written some wonderful things she , herself, did not even raise her son but wrote repeatedly how the parents are the most important people in a child's life.
John Holt same thing. While I do , like with Maria, appreciate what he has to say about how children learn and some of their great observations about children learning, their parenting advice is something that I would not take in consideration as much or at all.
I remember reading Holt talk about a child that did not like to be away from her mom and how they push her to separate and that she did fine in the end.
I remember not agreeing with that at all. My son was not one to go with anyone but me, his dad and maybe his grandmothers. Doing that to him
would have definitely done some harm in his trust. He separates just fine now and have for many years without needing any of what he thought it was good for that child.
Alex Polikowsky
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Sandra Dodd
Some side responses, quoted in part, a couple of people:
Sometimes there are other homeschoolers who know the family and that can cause complications, too--when people are going to be critical in a larger social group.
==========
I don't think my husband's co-workers should know how much time our kids spend playing video games, or how much sleep we get, or any of the other personal details that get discussed on these lists. And I've written that sentence six or eight times trying to get across what I mean -- which is basically that it's none of their business and I'm trying to protect my husband's privacy.
What Brie wrote about people with small children living in conservative areas pretty much describes how I feel.
I'm also active in a bunch of online groups not related to homeschooling, where I do use my real name. And I'm not sure how closely I want that linked to whatever I might say about homeschooling.
==========
If I am looking for pure radical unschooling advice, then it might be helpful to know Pam from Dayna. I know that if I want pure radical unschooling information, I can go to your site. If something is listed on your site, then I assume that you have already filtered the information to make sure that it fits your criteria for radical unschooling.
--------------------------------------------------
The first one is totally understandable. People who are keeping names secret have a limited range of motion and influence. They can't be invited to speak at conferences very well, for instance.
The second one is of interest.
Going purely by information, Someone could LOVE something written by someone by a nameless or named blogger without knowing the ideas or even the phrases were plagiarized. So that's not a problem solved by using or not using real names, really. When I quote things on my site, it's usually from a discussion I'm in where the information was not only useful, but withstood the discussion. The best of the ideas from an exchange, and the ideas that weren't shot down or taken apart.
But a typical day or a list of benefits aren't in that category of philosophical advice anyway, so yeah.... two different sorts of sharings.
Sandra
Sometimes there are other homeschoolers who know the family and that can cause complications, too--when people are going to be critical in a larger social group.
==========
I don't think my husband's co-workers should know how much time our kids spend playing video games, or how much sleep we get, or any of the other personal details that get discussed on these lists. And I've written that sentence six or eight times trying to get across what I mean -- which is basically that it's none of their business and I'm trying to protect my husband's privacy.
What Brie wrote about people with small children living in conservative areas pretty much describes how I feel.
I'm also active in a bunch of online groups not related to homeschooling, where I do use my real name. And I'm not sure how closely I want that linked to whatever I might say about homeschooling.
==========
If I am looking for pure radical unschooling advice, then it might be helpful to know Pam from Dayna. I know that if I want pure radical unschooling information, I can go to your site. If something is listed on your site, then I assume that you have already filtered the information to make sure that it fits your criteria for radical unschooling.
--------------------------------------------------
The first one is totally understandable. People who are keeping names secret have a limited range of motion and influence. They can't be invited to speak at conferences very well, for instance.
The second one is of interest.
Going purely by information, Someone could LOVE something written by someone by a nameless or named blogger without knowing the ideas or even the phrases were plagiarized. So that's not a problem solved by using or not using real names, really. When I quote things on my site, it's usually from a discussion I'm in where the information was not only useful, but withstood the discussion. The best of the ideas from an exchange, and the ideas that weren't shot down or taken apart.
But a typical day or a list of benefits aren't in that category of philosophical advice anyway, so yeah.... two different sorts of sharings.
Sandra
sheeboo2
--- I'm saying *I* prefer to know who's speaking when I'm considering advice.----
Right. Me too! Especially in regards to unschooling, and now another close-to-home kid issue, I've found that I want to know how old the person's children are, how long they've been at it, and if possible, how much of what they're writing about, experience-wise, is true.
I'm 110% with you that all information isn't equally valuable.
---But this blog is public, not private, right? Can't anyone read it?----
With this particular blog, though, I think the intention is "food for thought," and not necessarily focused entirely on unschooling, more than "this is how to do X." That's a worthy distinction.
--I thought Sandra was asking in a philosophical way, not a "this person" way.-----
You're right, Robin. I agree. And I think it is a worthy philosophical question, especially when more and more folks are making money off of being unschooling gurus, without being completely transparent or honest.
Brie
Right. Me too! Especially in regards to unschooling, and now another close-to-home kid issue, I've found that I want to know how old the person's children are, how long they've been at it, and if possible, how much of what they're writing about, experience-wise, is true.
I'm 110% with you that all information isn't equally valuable.
---But this blog is public, not private, right? Can't anyone read it?----
With this particular blog, though, I think the intention is "food for thought," and not necessarily focused entirely on unschooling, more than "this is how to do X." That's a worthy distinction.
--I thought Sandra was asking in a philosophical way, not a "this person" way.-----
You're right, Robin. I agree. And I think it is a worthy philosophical question, especially when more and more folks are making money off of being unschooling gurus, without being completely transparent or honest.
Brie
Robin Bentley
> ---But this blog is public, not private, right? Can't anyone readYes, Brie. That's true. As Sandra said it's "effusive, glowing
> it?----
>
> With this particular blog, though, I think the intention is "food
> for thought," and not necessarily focused entirely on unschooling,
> more than "this is how to do X." That's a worthy distinction.
analysis" :-) I liked it very much.
>I sort of tripped off into the money-making train of thought there.
> --I thought Sandra was asking in a philosophical way, not a "this
> person" way.-----
>
> You're right, Robin. I agree. And I think it is a worthy
> philosophical question, especially when more and more folks are
> making money off of being unschooling gurus, without being
> completely transparent or honest.
Sandra's correct - there is a difference between advice and the
"typical days" kind of stuff. Though at some point, I think they can
get a bit muddled up together.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
Alex P wrote:
-=-In my wanderings around the internet I have come across sites about parenting or homeschooling/unschooling ( can't remember specifics)
that had some nice things written. Every time I have looked for information on who was behind them and if they had kids, ages etc.
When I did not find those I have just mostly just lost interest in the site. Maybe it is my issue.-=-
Me too, and it's frustrating for me to see something great, or something disparaging and irritating, and not to have any idea who the author is. Sometimes they don't allow comments, either--though I'd be unlikely to comment on a wholly anonymous blog like that.
-=-I have also been in an unschooling group where some frequent posters would write some interesting ideas but then they would also write
in other posts how they were always fighting with their kids or their kids chose school , or how their kids were depressed or were having auto destructive behaviors. The picture they painted of their children and their relationships was not a peaceful joyful one.
That makes me more skeptical of what they write for sure.-=-
It makes me wish they would read what they write and do what they recommend, sometimes. :-)
Lives are rarely ideal and sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. Military service of one parent or another; living with in-laws; sudden disability of a parent; catastrophic financial or medical problems.
Unschooling needs some peace and space and privacy to be able to operate.
Few people would hop in bed with someone they didn't know, especially if they couldn't see their faces.
And politically and socially, sometimes, supporting or promoting another person is on a par with that (minus the risk of physical harm or disease or pregnancy).
For some people, I suppose reading what others write about unschooling is like people-watching in a public square. They sit on a bench and say "nice" or "odd" or ignore some people or wonder about some people. They're not worried about being asked to endorse someone.
For others, there can be a level of benefit or detriment beyond just casual personal opinion. If someone has me to speak at a conference, and it turns out I don't really have three kids at all, it will make them look bad to be associated with me, for example. (I do have three kids, and have had since Holly was born; just sayin'. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-In my wanderings around the internet I have come across sites about parenting or homeschooling/unschooling ( can't remember specifics)
that had some nice things written. Every time I have looked for information on who was behind them and if they had kids, ages etc.
When I did not find those I have just mostly just lost interest in the site. Maybe it is my issue.-=-
Me too, and it's frustrating for me to see something great, or something disparaging and irritating, and not to have any idea who the author is. Sometimes they don't allow comments, either--though I'd be unlikely to comment on a wholly anonymous blog like that.
-=-I have also been in an unschooling group where some frequent posters would write some interesting ideas but then they would also write
in other posts how they were always fighting with their kids or their kids chose school , or how their kids were depressed or were having auto destructive behaviors. The picture they painted of their children and their relationships was not a peaceful joyful one.
That makes me more skeptical of what they write for sure.-=-
It makes me wish they would read what they write and do what they recommend, sometimes. :-)
Lives are rarely ideal and sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. Military service of one parent or another; living with in-laws; sudden disability of a parent; catastrophic financial or medical problems.
Unschooling needs some peace and space and privacy to be able to operate.
Few people would hop in bed with someone they didn't know, especially if they couldn't see their faces.
And politically and socially, sometimes, supporting or promoting another person is on a par with that (minus the risk of physical harm or disease or pregnancy).
For some people, I suppose reading what others write about unschooling is like people-watching in a public square. They sit on a bench and say "nice" or "odd" or ignore some people or wonder about some people. They're not worried about being asked to endorse someone.
For others, there can be a level of benefit or detriment beyond just casual personal opinion. If someone has me to speak at a conference, and it turns out I don't really have three kids at all, it will make them look bad to be associated with me, for example. (I do have three kids, and have had since Holly was born; just sayin'. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> I don't think my husband's co-workers should know how much time ourIt's why I don't have a blog :-) I'm on unschooling lists where non-
> kids spend playing video games, or how much sleep we get, or any of
> the other personal details that get discussed on these lists. And
> I've written that sentence six or eight times trying to get across
> what I mean -- which is basically that it's none of their business
> and I'm trying to protect my husband's privacy.
unschooling people are unlikely to find me. I'm on Facebook, but I
don't discuss radical unschooling on my personal page (and most people
are not likely to explore my group activity).
If I was going to have a blog where I wrote about our unschooling
lives, it would be private and by invitation only.
>I get that. Not everyone has the right to know my business. But if I
> What Brie wrote about people with small children living in
> conservative areas pretty much describes how I feel.
was going to have a *public* blog, I think I would use my own name.
>Yes.
> ==========
>
> If I am looking for pure radical unschooling advice, then it might
> be helpful to know Pam from Dayna. I know that if I want pure
> radical unschooling information, I can go to your site. If something
> is listed on your site, then I assume that you have already filtered
> the information to make sure that it fits your criteria for radical
> unschooling.
> The second one is of interest.That's true. But it's hard to know someone's reputation without
> Going purely by information, Someone could LOVE something written by
> someone by a nameless or named blogger without knowing the ideas or
> even the phrases were plagiarized. So that's not a problem solved
> by using or not using real names, really.
knowing something about them. I know of at least one person who writes
very nice posts about unschooling and if I didn't know her irl, I'd be
inclined to think "wow, she really gets it and her home must be
awesome" and that I'd like to hang out with her, based on what's she
writes. But that's not the case at all. She isn't the person she seems
to be online.
> When I quote things on my site, it's usually from a discussion I'mI appreciate that very much, Sandra. And you have a knack for picking
> in where the information was not only useful, but withstood the
> discussion. The best of the ideas from an exchange, and the ideas
> that weren't shot down or taken apart.
out the best gems.
Robin B.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<"That's true. But it's hard to know someone's reputation without
knowing something about them. I know of at least one person who writes
very nice posts about unschooling and if I didn't know her irl, I'd be
inclined to think "wow, she really gets it and her home must be
awesome" and that I'd like to hang out with her, based on what's she
writes. But that's not the case at all. She isn't the person she seems
to be online. ">>>>>
I have heard that too. The good thing is that with all the connection that the internet and Conference, gatherings
and events it is really rare that you do not know someone who has not met the you.
I have not met Meredith officially for example, but my mom watched her daughter at a Conference while we went to
while both of us attended the session without even knowing !
I have seen 2 of Sandra's children for days at a Conference and could see what kind of people they were without their mom around.
I have introduced my self to Pam and heard her talk with one of her daughters.
( I bet she does not remember me but that is OK)
Sandra just had a friend of mine in her house this past week I think. A friend who has come several times to my home and knows me for years.
She can ask if my home is nice, peaceful or not. If my kids and I get along and much much more.
So it is bound to come out in the open who I am.
I am far from being this great unschooling mom. I struggle. I try, I am getting better. I have my moments like today when
I am sick again.
But if you know me you know I am the person I say I am.
Schuyler also has been to my home. I have learned so much more since the last time she was here. I think I am better. I hope I am.
When Schuyler writes I can totally trust what she writes because I have met her and I know her and her family.
And they are even more wonderful than what they seem on posts.
They really are that awesome.
I have a friend, a close friend in my town, that has met Sandra when she was here in Minnesota 5 years ago and unfortunately I did not get to see her.
She told me the same thing Schuyler told me. That watching Sandra with her children, ( with Holly here in MN) was amazing.
The amount of attention and connection she has with them. How she related to them was inspiring . My friend said she was
just in awe and learned to much by just spending a few hours with her.
So yes, going to a Conference and getting to meet people and watch them was /is fabulous. It puts a different spin in how you see what the posters write in the lists.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
knowing something about them. I know of at least one person who writes
very nice posts about unschooling and if I didn't know her irl, I'd be
inclined to think "wow, she really gets it and her home must be
awesome" and that I'd like to hang out with her, based on what's she
writes. But that's not the case at all. She isn't the person she seems
to be online. ">>>>>
I have heard that too. The good thing is that with all the connection that the internet and Conference, gatherings
and events it is really rare that you do not know someone who has not met the you.
I have not met Meredith officially for example, but my mom watched her daughter at a Conference while we went to
while both of us attended the session without even knowing !
I have seen 2 of Sandra's children for days at a Conference and could see what kind of people they were without their mom around.
I have introduced my self to Pam and heard her talk with one of her daughters.
( I bet she does not remember me but that is OK)
Sandra just had a friend of mine in her house this past week I think. A friend who has come several times to my home and knows me for years.
She can ask if my home is nice, peaceful or not. If my kids and I get along and much much more.
So it is bound to come out in the open who I am.
I am far from being this great unschooling mom. I struggle. I try, I am getting better. I have my moments like today when
I am sick again.
But if you know me you know I am the person I say I am.
Schuyler also has been to my home. I have learned so much more since the last time she was here. I think I am better. I hope I am.
When Schuyler writes I can totally trust what she writes because I have met her and I know her and her family.
And they are even more wonderful than what they seem on posts.
They really are that awesome.
I have a friend, a close friend in my town, that has met Sandra when she was here in Minnesota 5 years ago and unfortunately I did not get to see her.
She told me the same thing Schuyler told me. That watching Sandra with her children, ( with Holly here in MN) was amazing.
The amount of attention and connection she has with them. How she related to them was inspiring . My friend said she was
just in awe and learned to much by just spending a few hours with her.
So yes, going to a Conference and getting to meet people and watch them was /is fabulous. It puts a different spin in how you see what the posters write in the lists.
Alex Polikowsky
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Jenny Cyphers
***For some people, I suppose reading what others write about unschooling is like people-watching in a public square. They sit on a bench and say "nice" or "odd" or ignore some people or wonder about some people. They're not worried about being asked to endorse someone.
For others, there can be a level of benefit or detriment beyond just casual personal opinion.***
Once that happens it is hard to turn back. Beyond casual personal opinion, in my experience, will involve my kids. Once my kids are involved and things are in a different level of benefit, it's wonderful, but the detriment part, pretty awful.
Not all unschooling parents are who they say they are, or behave how they lead you to believe they will, even ones that write great things. It's definitely led me to sit back and read more and get to "know" people online better.
Even so, I do understand wanting a blog to be private in order to make it public. There are some things I simply don't share about our lives because I'm not hiding my name. If you know me in person, you get to hear about that stuff. If people find things out about me in rumor mill gossip fashion, I'm okay with that!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For others, there can be a level of benefit or detriment beyond just casual personal opinion.***
Once that happens it is hard to turn back. Beyond casual personal opinion, in my experience, will involve my kids. Once my kids are involved and things are in a different level of benefit, it's wonderful, but the detriment part, pretty awful.
Not all unschooling parents are who they say they are, or behave how they lead you to believe they will, even ones that write great things. It's definitely led me to sit back and read more and get to "know" people online better.
Even so, I do understand wanting a blog to be private in order to make it public. There are some things I simply don't share about our lives because I'm not hiding my name. If you know me in person, you get to hear about that stuff. If people find things out about me in rumor mill gossip fashion, I'm okay with that!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I sort of tripped off into the money-making train of thought there.
Sandra's correct - there is a difference between advice and the
"typical days" kind of stuff. Though at some point, I think they can
get a bit muddled up together.-=-
Apparently in my own mind they've been a big muddle until today. :-)
I suppose it's because my own writing flows back and forth, and my stories are examples intended to help people get it, understand it, and try it at home!
There are blogs without a name that consist largely of borrowed information and that have tons of those adds in the sidebars, and "sponsors" where they et money per click. And they show up in searches and it can't be helped. There's one with a section about me. I didn't object, because people who find it will read some of my ideas. The page doesn't lead to my site, though. The person would need to do a google search for me. I'd rather be there making her a few pennies on occasion than to have her pull it out entirely. I'm the only female represented there, so I leave it alone; else it will be male "experts" who either didn't at all whatsoever unschool their kids, or kind of did, but they ended up in school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra's correct - there is a difference between advice and the
"typical days" kind of stuff. Though at some point, I think they can
get a bit muddled up together.-=-
Apparently in my own mind they've been a big muddle until today. :-)
I suppose it's because my own writing flows back and forth, and my stories are examples intended to help people get it, understand it, and try it at home!
There are blogs without a name that consist largely of borrowed information and that have tons of those adds in the sidebars, and "sponsors" where they et money per click. And they show up in searches and it can't be helped. There's one with a section about me. I didn't object, because people who find it will read some of my ideas. The page doesn't lead to my site, though. The person would need to do a google search for me. I'd rather be there making her a few pennies on occasion than to have her pull it out entirely. I'm the only female represented there, so I leave it alone; else it will be male "experts" who either didn't at all whatsoever unschool their kids, or kind of did, but they ended up in school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Bob
>That's why I didn't offer him a feature page at my newsletter website for his book "Unconditional Parenting" when the opportunity arose. I was a fan of Alfie Kohn's work from way back, but his faith in school reform has become, in my view at least, increasingly irrational. Nothing personal, I like the guy a lot, but I think any sensible parent who has been as critical of the school system as Alfie Kohn has been over such a long time would have removed their children from it by now. That's my opinion anyway.
> -=- I am also glad that I don't have to send my children to school and wait for the schools and the culture around them to evolve to something more child-friendly.-=-
>
> Kohn doesn't "have to" send his children to school either, but he has chosen to. He doesn't agree with homeschooling, but will speak at their conferences for money.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Bob
Miliana Johnson
I try to separate an idea or argument from its source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
It's entirely possible for someone who doesn't have real life experience in subject A to have valid ideas about it. In terms of probability the chances of that happening are slim. But, for pure objectivity, each idea should be weighed on its own merit without regard to its source.
That said, there are two reasons I can see for wanting to judge an idea in the context of its source:
a) Ideas are not always put forth for objective reasons. The internet is not the philosophical equivalent of an objective, scientific lab. Knowing the source and the context can be very important when sussing out fallacies in an argument or idea.
b) Knowing the source can lead one to other ideas. Like all those links when you first google topic A and find yourself, hours later, learning about topic Q. Knowing the source can be a door to learning more.
Aloha,
Miliana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
It's entirely possible for someone who doesn't have real life experience in subject A to have valid ideas about it. In terms of probability the chances of that happening are slim. But, for pure objectivity, each idea should be weighed on its own merit without regard to its source.
That said, there are two reasons I can see for wanting to judge an idea in the context of its source:
a) Ideas are not always put forth for objective reasons. The internet is not the philosophical equivalent of an objective, scientific lab. Knowing the source and the context can be very important when sussing out fallacies in an argument or idea.
b) Knowing the source can lead one to other ideas. Like all those links when you first google topic A and find yourself, hours later, learning about topic Q. Knowing the source can be a door to learning more.
Aloha,
Miliana
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I'm responding to my own question already. I don't want the blogger to think I'm criticizing her blog. That's not it. I'm concerned about separating writing and writer. And *I* like to know who's writing. I want to know whether it's someone I trust, whose kids I respect, who has been helpful and not hurtful to others exploring unschooling.
>
> And I do know who it is, so it's not that.
> And there might be reasons for people to be incognito.
>
> Some people might not care where ideas come from.
> Some do. That difference is probably fine.
>
> Sandra
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I try to separate an idea or argument from its source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority-=-
Is one of those listed as a better option, or are they both listed as fallacies?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority-=-
Is one of those listed as a better option, or are they both listed as fallacies?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Miliana Johnson
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishmentSister fallacies, perhaps.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority-=-
>
> Is one of those listed as a better option, or are they both listed as fallacies?
People who have accomplished more in a specific field tend to have greater authority in that field. There is nothing wrong with that - one way we learn is by seeing what other people do and how well that works - but dismissing an idea because the person has neither authority nor accomplishment is fallacious. The idea may fail for other reasons but, at least when discussing philosophy, can't be dismissed out of hand because of the status of the person presenting the idea.
Aloha,
Miliana
Pam Sorooshian
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Miliana Johnson
<milianajohnson@...>wrote:
level involved in actual unschooling, it may not be worthwhile to take time
to deeply consider the ideas of someone without experience. They may be
generalizing based on too little experience. They may mislead about the
amount of experience they have. They may talk about "outcomes" prematurely.
Etc.
These two statements look the same:
1. My daughter says she's going to unschool her own kids.
2. My daughter says she's going to unschool her own kids.
What if #1 is written by a completely unknown person?
What if #2 is written by my daughter - it means something more to those who
know she's a college graduate, finishing an MA degree in counseling,
married, 27 years old, unschooled herself, and pregnant.
It seems to me it matters a LOT - #2 would seem to me to be a lot more
interesting and have a lot more potential implications, and certainly be
more encouraging. #1's daughter might be 4 years old for all we know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<milianajohnson@...>wrote:
> The idea may fail for other reasons but, at least when discussingEven when discussing philosophy, if we are bringing it to the practical
> philosophy, can't be dismissed out of hand because of the status of the
> person presenting the idea.
>>>
level involved in actual unschooling, it may not be worthwhile to take time
to deeply consider the ideas of someone without experience. They may be
generalizing based on too little experience. They may mislead about the
amount of experience they have. They may talk about "outcomes" prematurely.
Etc.
These two statements look the same:
1. My daughter says she's going to unschool her own kids.
2. My daughter says she's going to unschool her own kids.
What if #1 is written by a completely unknown person?
What if #2 is written by my daughter - it means something more to those who
know she's a college graduate, finishing an MA degree in counseling,
married, 27 years old, unschooled herself, and pregnant.
It seems to me it matters a LOT - #2 would seem to me to be a lot more
interesting and have a lot more potential implications, and certainly be
more encouraging. #1's daughter might be 4 years old for all we know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Miliana Johnson
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
I'm not saying "hey, don't dismiss the newbies," I'm just talking about the technical fallacy of doing so. Everyone does it all the time as a time management tool. But sometimes it means we miss opportunities - to correct actual errors in the idea/argument, to strengthen our own positions/arguments/ideas, or to find an actual nugget of truth.
> It seems to me it matters a LOT - #2 would seem to me to be a lot moreThe circumstances don't negate the validity of the statement but of course they can make it more interesting. There's a difference between saying a statement is true/not true and saying it is interesting/not interesting.
> interesting and have a lot more potential implications, and certainly be
> more encouraging. #1's daughter might be 4 years old for all we know.
> Even when discussing philosophy, if we are bringing it to the practicalAs I said in my first point, knowing the context can give you clues on where to start when you want to pull apart an argument. It's useful for that reason. But it's fallacious to dismiss an argument because of the status of the person making the argument.
> level involved in actual unschooling, it may not be worthwhile to take time
> to deeply consider the ideas of someone without experience. They may be
> generalizing based on too little experience. They may mislead about the
> amount of experience they have. They may talk about "outcomes" prematurely.
> Etc.
I'm not saying "hey, don't dismiss the newbies," I'm just talking about the technical fallacy of doing so. Everyone does it all the time as a time management tool. But sometimes it means we miss opportunities - to correct actual errors in the idea/argument, to strengthen our own positions/arguments/ideas, or to find an actual nugget of truth.
Sandra Dodd
-=-The circumstances don't negate the validity of the statement but of course they can make it more interesting. There's a difference between saying a statement is true/not true and saying it is interesting/not interesting.-=-
Unschooling isn't passed on by individual statements, though, but by sets of experiences, and by ideas polished by discussions.
It's possible for someone to come to this discussion and say something very cool that nobody's ever thought before. When it happens, they get praise and "good idea!" And sometimes THAT validates the idea. Sometimes others quote it, or it goes on a webpage, and that adds some validity (or accessibility and fans).
Because we're not in a test situation where answers are given by one person for the purpose of competition, the ideas go into a swirl and are used as a set. Some people come and leave because their ideas were questioned or dismantled a bit. They don't like that, and the leave. But it's the examination of the ideas that sifts and sorts and leaves the best of them.
There are a few statements from years ago that I WISH I had saved names for. We had no idea there would be discussions and blogs and webpages fifteen years later and we would want citations. But since then I've kept names with quotes to prevent the snagging and claiming of quotes by people who didn't originate them. (Most notably that happened with "...like throwing marshmallows at their heads and calling it eating.")
In the past few years, I've started adding dates and sometimes a link.
To me, for the purpose of what I do, it matters.
-=-The circumstances don't negate the validity of the statement but of course they can make it more interesting. There's a difference between saying a statement is true/not true and saying it is interesting/not interesting.-=-
I think they don't negate the veracity of the statement. Someone with a four year old daughter could be telling the god's-honest truth that her daughter did indeed state that when she grows up, she will unschool her child. A four year old wouldn't say that, though. And a four year old might end up in school at the age of five. So the *validity* of the statement in a discussion such as this one is insignificant.
Valid has value.
Lots of things have value.
It depends what use it's to be put to, though, whether it's sufficiently valuable within a context, and the purpose of this discussion is to deal in these issues:
*******
How and why does unschooling work? What kind of parents and parenting does it take? What will help, and what will hinder?
This is a list for the examination of the philosophy of unschooling and attentive parenting and a place for sharing examined lives based on the principles underlying unschooling.
*******
I suppose it helps to know whether the words are coming from someone who is living a life based on the principles of unschooling, and has examined that life. :-)
On the other hand, it's okay that some people's writing is more valuable than others, and it can't be helped. It's the way life is. Some people write quickly and clearly. Some write clearly but it takes a while. Some don't write as well, but they have great ideas. People have their favorite other authors, too, after a while. It's normal and natural.
If someone came and refused to say whether she had kids or not, and said "You should read my posts, though, because my ideas might be the best you've ever seen," I wouldn't want to read her posts. I only have so much time, and if someone's going to be irritating, it's not good for the peace and prosperity of this discussion.
That condition isn't true of the blogger about which this all started, though. She's real and does say who her kids are; she's just obscuring personal details.
Sometimes I bring a post anonymously. When I do that, it's anonymous for the purposes of the list, and it gains validity because people trust that I know who wrote it and that it's being brought in that fashion for some good reason. (And those are usually questions, not so much advice, though a time or two there was a professional opinion brought that way from a professional who didn't want to be on the record.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unschooling isn't passed on by individual statements, though, but by sets of experiences, and by ideas polished by discussions.
It's possible for someone to come to this discussion and say something very cool that nobody's ever thought before. When it happens, they get praise and "good idea!" And sometimes THAT validates the idea. Sometimes others quote it, or it goes on a webpage, and that adds some validity (or accessibility and fans).
Because we're not in a test situation where answers are given by one person for the purpose of competition, the ideas go into a swirl and are used as a set. Some people come and leave because their ideas were questioned or dismantled a bit. They don't like that, and the leave. But it's the examination of the ideas that sifts and sorts and leaves the best of them.
There are a few statements from years ago that I WISH I had saved names for. We had no idea there would be discussions and blogs and webpages fifteen years later and we would want citations. But since then I've kept names with quotes to prevent the snagging and claiming of quotes by people who didn't originate them. (Most notably that happened with "...like throwing marshmallows at their heads and calling it eating.")
In the past few years, I've started adding dates and sometimes a link.
To me, for the purpose of what I do, it matters.
-=-The circumstances don't negate the validity of the statement but of course they can make it more interesting. There's a difference between saying a statement is true/not true and saying it is interesting/not interesting.-=-
I think they don't negate the veracity of the statement. Someone with a four year old daughter could be telling the god's-honest truth that her daughter did indeed state that when she grows up, she will unschool her child. A four year old wouldn't say that, though. And a four year old might end up in school at the age of five. So the *validity* of the statement in a discussion such as this one is insignificant.
Valid has value.
Lots of things have value.
It depends what use it's to be put to, though, whether it's sufficiently valuable within a context, and the purpose of this discussion is to deal in these issues:
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How and why does unschooling work? What kind of parents and parenting does it take? What will help, and what will hinder?
This is a list for the examination of the philosophy of unschooling and attentive parenting and a place for sharing examined lives based on the principles underlying unschooling.
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I suppose it helps to know whether the words are coming from someone who is living a life based on the principles of unschooling, and has examined that life. :-)
On the other hand, it's okay that some people's writing is more valuable than others, and it can't be helped. It's the way life is. Some people write quickly and clearly. Some write clearly but it takes a while. Some don't write as well, but they have great ideas. People have their favorite other authors, too, after a while. It's normal and natural.
If someone came and refused to say whether she had kids or not, and said "You should read my posts, though, because my ideas might be the best you've ever seen," I wouldn't want to read her posts. I only have so much time, and if someone's going to be irritating, it's not good for the peace and prosperity of this discussion.
That condition isn't true of the blogger about which this all started, though. She's real and does say who her kids are; she's just obscuring personal details.
Sometimes I bring a post anonymously. When I do that, it's anonymous for the purposes of the list, and it gains validity because people trust that I know who wrote it and that it's being brought in that fashion for some good reason. (And those are usually questions, not so much advice, though a time or two there was a professional opinion brought that way from a professional who didn't want to be on the record.)
Sandra
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