Daughter not living up to husband's expectations of her potential
Sandra Dodd
From e-mail, an anonymous request
Would you mind posting this without my name?
Subject: Daughter not living up to husband's expectations of her potential
Hello,
Our daughter is 6 years old and we have an almost 2 year old son. They get along well, she was happy he was born, likes hanging out with him.
Up until about 4, she was very feisty, very opinionated, still likes things to be just right. She's funny and lively and very engaging, loves to talk, needs someone with her to do all the things she loves. I am an introvert by nature, but have adjusted a lot since she was born, I take lots of little breaks throughout the day just to get my head back on track. I have learned to live around her personality, to side step things that used to throw her into a fit, a loud screaming fit lasting 40 minutes sometimes, and we mostly have fun with each other now. She's learned to live around my personality, grown up quite a bit, and we have both made adjustments through trial and error and a lot of observation and tweaking. She's really good at reading people and she's learned from other people's reactions to her freak outs (as she calls them) that it's not something that helps a situation.
Since I got pregnant with my son, and had not much energy, she started watching a lot of TV, and it seems to have become her companion. Before we watched together, but mostly did other things. Now we do things in between or even during her shows, like painting, knitting, talking about the shows. I read books to her when she's on the toilet to keep her company, try to sneak in a dance party here or there, we go to see friends that she likes about 3 times a week. I do spend a lot of time cleaning up messes that arise from regular kitchen experiments, pencil sharpening parties, confetti making sessions -- lots of things she likes to do are super messy, so I don't spend as much time actually interacting with her as I like. When she helps clean up, the mess just gets out of control, so I kinda keep her at bay during that part for now. We bake, she's learning how to cook simple meals like scrambled eggs and pancakes, she writes things by ear, still wobbly handwriting, but she's getting there. She's playing with numbers in her head. Lately I've been making a bigger effort to bump between her and her brother for set periods of time as he's getting better at entertaining himself. This way we're moving towards more interactions and I'm getting back to what I used to do with her, be more involved.
We're night owls, so when my husband goes to work she's still sleeping, when he gets home from work I'm usually cleaning up from a messy day and she's watching shows on netflix. Sometimes I just collapse and take a nap while the kids watch a movie with him. While they are hanging out he asks her what she did that day and she often says one thing we did and goes back to watching her show. If he talks to me she jumps in and interrupts and starts getting a little crazy, bumping into stuff, hurting herself. Sometimes she tries to join the conversation, but seems to have a hard time following what's going on and makes comments that really make her sound not too bright in his eyes. She's so good at talking, has a huge vocabulary, so when she's in a monologue, she sounds like a genius, but when it comes to listening, it really looks like she's not all there. When she's with friends, it seems to work itself out just fine somehow everyone gets heard, when it's around her dad, it really jarring how much she just doesn't get yet. She also tries to impress him by doing math, which she can do in her head just fine, but to him math is valid only on paper, in correct notation, which she struggles with. When they do their math session (at her requests cuz she knows he likes doing that kind of stuff with her) they both get frustrated cuz he's teaching and she's bopping up and down and ignoring him. She wants to impress him and gets a lesson instead. He sees what's happening of course and understands it to some degree, but hates that she just quits when the going gets tough and she gives up too easy. Then there is reading and he's given up trying to show her how to sound things out cuz she can do it, but starts to pretend and get sounds wrong on purpose.
I try to let it go, it's a thing they do together once in a while and she used to like it a lot, and sometimes she comes out having read a new word and proud of herself. He comes out with a look on his face like we really dropped a ball somewhere. It's not that often anymore, but that's because he's basically given up. The problem is that he thinks we have given her the idea that trying is bad unless there is a measurable positive result. She hates being wrong and being bad at something, and so is afraid to try many new things sometimes. I think she's always been that way, he thinks somehow we taught her this by not insisting that she do things till she's happy with them.
She spends most of her time with me and I don't make her do things, if she shows disinterest in something we move on to something else. Her life so far has been mostly playing with friends and watching shows and sometimes going to museums and other more educational places and the things we do around the house. To me she seems to know waaaay more than most 6 year olds know, but she can't show that to anyone on command, it's in her head and comes out in conversations with friends and strangers, just not her dad. He's just not that impressed.
He doesn't bug us about this, it only comes out when we're talking about unschooling, which I bring up sometimes when I hear an awesome unschooling success story. He says that he doesn't see much of that kind of learning going on here and that other unschoolers must be doing something differently, setting up their kids for success by instilling a love of learning, which our daughter lacks (she does say things like I'm already smart, I don't need to learn anything -- he tells her she's super smart and that's what she gets out of that comment). When he says these things I start thinking I am dropping the ball too. He doesn't want to hurt my feelings or to make her feel bad so he keeps this to himself until it all comes out in a conversation about unschooling, then things die down and we go about our business. I should just stop bring it up and that will keep his thoughts off of my direct radar, but he'll still be thinking them, and I still feel kind of lost...
He spends about 4 or 5 hours a week with us and works or works on his hobby the rest of the time.
Thank you, any input will be appreciated!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Would you mind posting this without my name?
Subject: Daughter not living up to husband's expectations of her potential
Hello,
Our daughter is 6 years old and we have an almost 2 year old son. They get along well, she was happy he was born, likes hanging out with him.
Up until about 4, she was very feisty, very opinionated, still likes things to be just right. She's funny and lively and very engaging, loves to talk, needs someone with her to do all the things she loves. I am an introvert by nature, but have adjusted a lot since she was born, I take lots of little breaks throughout the day just to get my head back on track. I have learned to live around her personality, to side step things that used to throw her into a fit, a loud screaming fit lasting 40 minutes sometimes, and we mostly have fun with each other now. She's learned to live around my personality, grown up quite a bit, and we have both made adjustments through trial and error and a lot of observation and tweaking. She's really good at reading people and she's learned from other people's reactions to her freak outs (as she calls them) that it's not something that helps a situation.
Since I got pregnant with my son, and had not much energy, she started watching a lot of TV, and it seems to have become her companion. Before we watched together, but mostly did other things. Now we do things in between or even during her shows, like painting, knitting, talking about the shows. I read books to her when she's on the toilet to keep her company, try to sneak in a dance party here or there, we go to see friends that she likes about 3 times a week. I do spend a lot of time cleaning up messes that arise from regular kitchen experiments, pencil sharpening parties, confetti making sessions -- lots of things she likes to do are super messy, so I don't spend as much time actually interacting with her as I like. When she helps clean up, the mess just gets out of control, so I kinda keep her at bay during that part for now. We bake, she's learning how to cook simple meals like scrambled eggs and pancakes, she writes things by ear, still wobbly handwriting, but she's getting there. She's playing with numbers in her head. Lately I've been making a bigger effort to bump between her and her brother for set periods of time as he's getting better at entertaining himself. This way we're moving towards more interactions and I'm getting back to what I used to do with her, be more involved.
We're night owls, so when my husband goes to work she's still sleeping, when he gets home from work I'm usually cleaning up from a messy day and she's watching shows on netflix. Sometimes I just collapse and take a nap while the kids watch a movie with him. While they are hanging out he asks her what she did that day and she often says one thing we did and goes back to watching her show. If he talks to me she jumps in and interrupts and starts getting a little crazy, bumping into stuff, hurting herself. Sometimes she tries to join the conversation, but seems to have a hard time following what's going on and makes comments that really make her sound not too bright in his eyes. She's so good at talking, has a huge vocabulary, so when she's in a monologue, she sounds like a genius, but when it comes to listening, it really looks like she's not all there. When she's with friends, it seems to work itself out just fine somehow everyone gets heard, when it's around her dad, it really jarring how much she just doesn't get yet. She also tries to impress him by doing math, which she can do in her head just fine, but to him math is valid only on paper, in correct notation, which she struggles with. When they do their math session (at her requests cuz she knows he likes doing that kind of stuff with her) they both get frustrated cuz he's teaching and she's bopping up and down and ignoring him. She wants to impress him and gets a lesson instead. He sees what's happening of course and understands it to some degree, but hates that she just quits when the going gets tough and she gives up too easy. Then there is reading and he's given up trying to show her how to sound things out cuz she can do it, but starts to pretend and get sounds wrong on purpose.
I try to let it go, it's a thing they do together once in a while and she used to like it a lot, and sometimes she comes out having read a new word and proud of herself. He comes out with a look on his face like we really dropped a ball somewhere. It's not that often anymore, but that's because he's basically given up. The problem is that he thinks we have given her the idea that trying is bad unless there is a measurable positive result. She hates being wrong and being bad at something, and so is afraid to try many new things sometimes. I think she's always been that way, he thinks somehow we taught her this by not insisting that she do things till she's happy with them.
She spends most of her time with me and I don't make her do things, if she shows disinterest in something we move on to something else. Her life so far has been mostly playing with friends and watching shows and sometimes going to museums and other more educational places and the things we do around the house. To me she seems to know waaaay more than most 6 year olds know, but she can't show that to anyone on command, it's in her head and comes out in conversations with friends and strangers, just not her dad. He's just not that impressed.
He doesn't bug us about this, it only comes out when we're talking about unschooling, which I bring up sometimes when I hear an awesome unschooling success story. He says that he doesn't see much of that kind of learning going on here and that other unschoolers must be doing something differently, setting up their kids for success by instilling a love of learning, which our daughter lacks (she does say things like I'm already smart, I don't need to learn anything -- he tells her she's super smart and that's what she gets out of that comment). When he says these things I start thinking I am dropping the ball too. He doesn't want to hurt my feelings or to make her feel bad so he keeps this to himself until it all comes out in a conversation about unschooling, then things die down and we go about our business. I should just stop bring it up and that will keep his thoughts off of my direct radar, but he'll still be thinking them, and I still feel kind of lost...
He spends about 4 or 5 hours a week with us and works or works on his hobby the rest of the time.
Thank you, any input will be appreciated!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
>> He doesn't bug us about this, it only comes out when we're talking about unschooling, which I bring up sometimes when I hear an awesome unschooling success story. He says that he doesn't see much of that kind of learning going on here and that other unschoolers must be doing something differently****************
I think you need to tell your husband different stories! You've set his expectations of unschooling to something unrealistic - not that unschoolers don't do awesome things, but the way they get to awesome things involves a lot of side-trips and backwaters. I don't have time to dig for links right now, but do you have Sandra's Big Book of Unschooling? That could be a good place to start.
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Why not create a really nice blog with lots of pictures and cool things you all do or that your daughter says?|
That way dad gets to look at what you all do.
There has been times i wrote down on Facebook a few things I did that day and people think I had this amazing busy day !
It just sounds fantastic written down and documented!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That way dad gets to look at what you all do.
There has been times i wrote down on Facebook a few things I did that day and people think I had this amazing busy day !
It just sounds fantastic written down and documented!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mitrisue
<<She's so good at talking, has a huge vocabulary, so when she's in a monologue, she sounds like a genius, but when it comes to listening, it really looks like she's not all there. When she's with friends, it seems to work itself out just fine somehow everyone gets heard, when it's around her dad, it really jarring how much she just doesn't get yet.>>
I've noticed with my 6yo son that when people are approaching him with a subtle or overt attitude of "Are you good enough?", he is not able to listen or focus. I consider that a good sign! Quite naturally, his attention doesn't linger when the mutual trust and respect dynamic feels off.
If I can help social situations by participating or redirecting (like with family members questioning him), I do that.
<<Then there is reading and he's given up trying to show her how to sound things out cuz she can do it, but starts to pretend and get sounds wrong on purpose.>>
<<I try to let it go, it's a thing they do together once in a while and she used to like it a lot, and sometimes she comes out having read a new word and proud of herself. He comes out with a look on his face like we really dropped a ball somewhere. It's not that often anymore, but that's because he's basically given up.>>
This article really helped family members get and understand Dmitri more:
http://www.therightsideofnormal.com/resources-2/right-brained-resources/learning-to-read-typical-right-brained-traits/
I wouldn't label Dmitri strictly as any particular type of learner, but I definitely see him in the descriptions. Now my mom is focusing on his creativity, and I think family members can see a bit better why trying to get Dmitri to sound out words is not a good fit for him.
I've heard Dmitri, in conversations with others who seem to be checking up on him, giving "wrong" responses even though I knew he was misrepresenting his abilities. I think what happens is that when the other person's motivation is not genuine in the sense of truly being interested in what he has to say, Dmitri has no impulse to focus. It's not like he's intentionally trying to throw people off; it's seems more like he has no real reason to dip into his knowledge pool in that particular situation. Facts and abilities are there when he needs them, and not when he doesn't. Being tested is not really a situation that requires his facts and abilities. It's more about the other person not being sure about him and trying to get him to give them a sure feeling, which is not his job.
<<The problem is that he thinks we have given her the idea that trying is bad unless there is a measurable positive result. She hates being wrong and being bad at something, and so is afraid to try many new things sometimes. I think she's always been that way, he thinks somehow we taught her this by not insisting that she do things till she's happy with them.>>
When talking about trying something new, I think we're often talking more about "Do what I say now because I think it will make me more comfortable." Kids try new stuff all the time, although it may be within a narrow subset that adults don't know how to respect. Dmitri tries so many new things every day as a builder of Mario video game levels, but most people aren't able to recognize and admire what he's doing.
Maybe you could help your husband see what's new to her? It doesn't work too well for me when I try too hard to do stuff like this, but it does work well to stay alert for inspiration to share with others. If I make it my job to change someone else's mind, I fail, but I can help someone else appreciate what's going on with us through sharing.
Julie
I've noticed with my 6yo son that when people are approaching him with a subtle or overt attitude of "Are you good enough?", he is not able to listen or focus. I consider that a good sign! Quite naturally, his attention doesn't linger when the mutual trust and respect dynamic feels off.
If I can help social situations by participating or redirecting (like with family members questioning him), I do that.
<<Then there is reading and he's given up trying to show her how to sound things out cuz she can do it, but starts to pretend and get sounds wrong on purpose.>>
<<I try to let it go, it's a thing they do together once in a while and she used to like it a lot, and sometimes she comes out having read a new word and proud of herself. He comes out with a look on his face like we really dropped a ball somewhere. It's not that often anymore, but that's because he's basically given up.>>
This article really helped family members get and understand Dmitri more:
http://www.therightsideofnormal.com/resources-2/right-brained-resources/learning-to-read-typical-right-brained-traits/
I wouldn't label Dmitri strictly as any particular type of learner, but I definitely see him in the descriptions. Now my mom is focusing on his creativity, and I think family members can see a bit better why trying to get Dmitri to sound out words is not a good fit for him.
I've heard Dmitri, in conversations with others who seem to be checking up on him, giving "wrong" responses even though I knew he was misrepresenting his abilities. I think what happens is that when the other person's motivation is not genuine in the sense of truly being interested in what he has to say, Dmitri has no impulse to focus. It's not like he's intentionally trying to throw people off; it's seems more like he has no real reason to dip into his knowledge pool in that particular situation. Facts and abilities are there when he needs them, and not when he doesn't. Being tested is not really a situation that requires his facts and abilities. It's more about the other person not being sure about him and trying to get him to give them a sure feeling, which is not his job.
<<The problem is that he thinks we have given her the idea that trying is bad unless there is a measurable positive result. She hates being wrong and being bad at something, and so is afraid to try many new things sometimes. I think she's always been that way, he thinks somehow we taught her this by not insisting that she do things till she's happy with them.>>
When talking about trying something new, I think we're often talking more about "Do what I say now because I think it will make me more comfortable." Kids try new stuff all the time, although it may be within a narrow subset that adults don't know how to respect. Dmitri tries so many new things every day as a builder of Mario video game levels, but most people aren't able to recognize and admire what he's doing.
Maybe you could help your husband see what's new to her? It doesn't work too well for me when I try too hard to do stuff like this, but it does work well to stay alert for inspiration to share with others. If I make it my job to change someone else's mind, I fail, but I can help someone else appreciate what's going on with us through sharing.
Julie