Mealtime issues
jofielding
I'd like some perspectives/further discussion on behaviour at mealtimes, at home, in restaurants and as guests in people's homes. It came up in chat yesterday.
I mentioned that my older children (6 and 4) don't use cutlery except spoons for yoghurts, breakfast cereal, soup. They tend to eat what could be considered finger foods (fries, fishfingers, eggy bread, carrot sticks, sandwiches). I provide cutlery, but they don't use it.
Eating in restaurants is difficult - partly because they get bored, partly because they're pretty restricted in what they like to eat. Cafes are better, shorter meal times and snackier food.
After the chat, I was thinking about mealtimes some more. Freddie (6) prefers not to eat at the table. I don't have a problem with thisat home, though from time to time I ask that we all sit together (maybe once a fortnight or so, if I've made a Sunday roast). We were at my in laws at the weekend, and he refused to come to the table. It was a tricky situation - I couldn't get round the table to get out to the other room where he was sitting without getting 3 family members to stand up out of the way. I spoke to him about it afterwards but it was so awkward.
I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie especially. I'd appreciate any thoughts and guidance.
I mentioned that my older children (6 and 4) don't use cutlery except spoons for yoghurts, breakfast cereal, soup. They tend to eat what could be considered finger foods (fries, fishfingers, eggy bread, carrot sticks, sandwiches). I provide cutlery, but they don't use it.
Eating in restaurants is difficult - partly because they get bored, partly because they're pretty restricted in what they like to eat. Cafes are better, shorter meal times and snackier food.
After the chat, I was thinking about mealtimes some more. Freddie (6) prefers not to eat at the table. I don't have a problem with thisat home, though from time to time I ask that we all sit together (maybe once a fortnight or so, if I've made a Sunday roast). We were at my in laws at the weekend, and he refused to come to the table. It was a tricky situation - I couldn't get round the table to get out to the other room where he was sitting without getting 3 family members to stand up out of the way. I spoke to him about it afterwards but it was so awkward.
I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie especially. I'd appreciate any thoughts and guidance.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie especially. I'd appreciate any thoughts and guidance.-=-
How would it be different if they were in school?
Sometimes it's not an unschooling question. it's a plain life question.
When we were going somewhere with my kids, I briefed them on what they were likely going to be expected to do. If you're going to someone else's home for a meal, say it's that. Don't say you're going to visit, or play. Say you're going to eat, and it will be a sit-down meal, and afterwards he can play, maybe.
Sandra
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How would it be different if they were in school?
Sometimes it's not an unschooling question. it's a plain life question.
When we were going somewhere with my kids, I briefed them on what they were likely going to be expected to do. If you're going to someone else's home for a meal, say it's that. Don't say you're going to visit, or play. Say you're going to eat, and it will be a sit-down meal, and afterwards he can play, maybe.
Sandra
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Don't go to restaurants unless they are very kid friendly and they are eating things that they are supposed to eat with their hands like pizza, burgers etc.
They are still young.
We do not do meal times at my house and we rarely, if ever, sit on the table together.
My husband rather sit in front of the TV after a very long day of work.
My kids eat at the computer desk or in front of the TV most times.
Having said that they do pretty good at the restaurant or someone's table/home. I do help them .
They are 9 and 6. As they get older we will be able to go to more places but for now the fanciest place
we go is the buffet restaurant like Golden Corral. They do pretty good there and I do tell them what is polite what is not.
They do want to learn to be polite. They do want to learn to be social and acceptable.
Alex Polikowsky
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They are still young.
We do not do meal times at my house and we rarely, if ever, sit on the table together.
My husband rather sit in front of the TV after a very long day of work.
My kids eat at the computer desk or in front of the TV most times.
Having said that they do pretty good at the restaurant or someone's table/home. I do help them .
They are 9 and 6. As they get older we will be able to go to more places but for now the fanciest place
we go is the buffet restaurant like Golden Corral. They do pretty good there and I do tell them what is polite what is not.
They do want to learn to be polite. They do want to learn to be social and acceptable.
Alex Polikowsky
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Robin Bentley
>Once upon a time, kids could have their own smaller table at which to
> After the chat, I was thinking about mealtimes some more. Freddie
> (6) prefers not to eat at the table. I don't have a problem with
> thisat home, though from time to time I ask that we all sit together
> (maybe once a fortnight or so, if I've made a Sunday roast). We
> were at my in laws at the weekend, and he refused to come to the
> table. It was a tricky situation - I couldn't get round the table
> to get out to the other room where he was sitting without getting 3
> family members to stand up out of the way. I spoke to him about it
> afterwards but it was so awkward.
>
> I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a
> part of the society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate
> that to Freddie especially. I'd appreciate any thoughts and
> guidance.
eat their dinner. They got practice sitting and eating "like the grown-
ups" but with shorter sitting times, smaller plates perhaps, and less
scrutiny. Do you think he might enjoy that? Could you set something up
with the in-laws when you're there?
Robin B.
Julie van der Wekken
A lot of the behavior your describing in regards to mealtimes in your children has a lot to do with age. Sounds very familiar to me when my own two were of similar ages.
At my moms house, mealtime is very relaxed. Everyone dishes up when they are hungry. She does have a rule that food must be eaten in the kitchen, but is o.k. if the kids eat a little and then go play for awhile and come back for more.
At my in-laws house mealtime is always sit down with everyone eating at the same time. My mother-in-law has always had a "kids table" for the grandkids to sit at, and she always makes something to go along with the main meal that she knows all the kids like (mac and cheese for instance).
If there are other kids present at your in-laws, maybe your in-laws would be up for setting up a kids table as well as a way to entice or make the meal more special for the younger ones.
My 10 year old has always loved going to restaurants, and even when he was little, was satisfied as long as he was eating something. On the other hand when my 6 year old was younger all he wanted to do was get down and run around. A couple of things helped with this. One, we would order and while waiting for our food either me or my husband would take him outside to run around, and two, I would bring lots of stuff in my bag for him to do to keep him busy (crayons, coloring books, paper, magnet sets, ect...).
Julie v.
At my moms house, mealtime is very relaxed. Everyone dishes up when they are hungry. She does have a rule that food must be eaten in the kitchen, but is o.k. if the kids eat a little and then go play for awhile and come back for more.
At my in-laws house mealtime is always sit down with everyone eating at the same time. My mother-in-law has always had a "kids table" for the grandkids to sit at, and she always makes something to go along with the main meal that she knows all the kids like (mac and cheese for instance).
If there are other kids present at your in-laws, maybe your in-laws would be up for setting up a kids table as well as a way to entice or make the meal more special for the younger ones.
My 10 year old has always loved going to restaurants, and even when he was little, was satisfied as long as he was eating something. On the other hand when my 6 year old was younger all he wanted to do was get down and run around. A couple of things helped with this. One, we would order and while waiting for our food either me or my husband would take him outside to run around, and two, I would bring lots of stuff in my bag for him to do to keep him busy (crayons, coloring books, paper, magnet sets, ect...).
Julie v.
Whatis Myusername
A couple of things we do:
1. We like to go to Japaneses restaurants where we can sit at the sushi bar. It is entertaining for kids to watch the sushi chefs in action. Since we go there so often, the chefs and wait staff know us very well. Sometimes they let my kids play with the live lobsters, abalone...
---go to kids friendly places and get to know the people
2. When we need to go to unfamiliar restaurants, I will do lots of preparation that includes: briefing (what to expect), activities (games, colroing..). And I make sure timing is right (for example, my 3-year-old will not be tired either going to restaurant early or letting her nap in the afternoon)
3. When they are younger, I brought home made food with me. Lots of time they prefer my food. But we can all enjoy eating at restaurants.
4. My son, who is 6 now, still likes me to feed him at home. But when we eat at other people's house, he likes to sit and uses utensils because other big boys were doing that (they are 13, 14, 16).
----maybe you can bring in "role models"?
5. There was an ipad/iphone app, showing what to do or what to expect for kids in different places. It was not a big hit with my kids, but you may check it out.
6. Some TV shows help too. My 3-year-old daughter tried to lie down on the seat in a restaurant recently. I asked her if Angelina Ballerina would do that in a restaurant.
7. My kids have lots of freedom at home, like food choices, when to eat and where to eat and how to eat. I found that helped with following my briefings when we went out.
It doesn't always go smooth. It takes practice. It is part of learning. I would not try to avoid but be prepared, take baby steps and get better over time.
hope this helps
Jihong
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1. We like to go to Japaneses restaurants where we can sit at the sushi bar. It is entertaining for kids to watch the sushi chefs in action. Since we go there so often, the chefs and wait staff know us very well. Sometimes they let my kids play with the live lobsters, abalone...
---go to kids friendly places and get to know the people
2. When we need to go to unfamiliar restaurants, I will do lots of preparation that includes: briefing (what to expect), activities (games, colroing..). And I make sure timing is right (for example, my 3-year-old will not be tired either going to restaurant early or letting her nap in the afternoon)
3. When they are younger, I brought home made food with me. Lots of time they prefer my food. But we can all enjoy eating at restaurants.
4. My son, who is 6 now, still likes me to feed him at home. But when we eat at other people's house, he likes to sit and uses utensils because other big boys were doing that (they are 13, 14, 16).
----maybe you can bring in "role models"?
5. There was an ipad/iphone app, showing what to do or what to expect for kids in different places. It was not a big hit with my kids, but you may check it out.
6. Some TV shows help too. My 3-year-old daughter tried to lie down on the seat in a restaurant recently. I asked her if Angelina Ballerina would do that in a restaurant.
7. My kids have lots of freedom at home, like food choices, when to eat and where to eat and how to eat. I found that helped with following my briefings when we went out.
It doesn't always go smooth. It takes practice. It is part of learning. I would not try to avoid but be prepared, take baby steps and get better over time.
hope this helps
Jihong
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Meredith
"jofielding" <joannefielding@...> wrote:
They don't need years and years of preparation - you can wait until they're older and have more skills before taking them to places where they can't behave properly. It's better to set them up to succeed for now, taking them places where there behavior isn't a big deal. Skip meals at the in-laws for awhile - show up too later or early to eat, or set up a kid-table with a project/activity and kid food, maybe in another room so the adults can hang out and not fuss at the kids.
---Meredith
>> I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie especially.***************
They don't need years and years of preparation - you can wait until they're older and have more skills before taking them to places where they can't behave properly. It's better to set them up to succeed for now, taking them places where there behavior isn't a big deal. Skip meals at the in-laws for awhile - show up too later or early to eat, or set up a kid-table with a project/activity and kid food, maybe in another room so the adults can hang out and not fuss at the kids.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-They don't need years and years of preparation - you can wait until they're older and have more skills before taking them to places where they can't behave properly. It's better to set them up to succeed for now, taking them places where there behavior isn't a big deal. Skip meals at the in-laws for awhile - show up too later or early to eat, or set up a kid-table with a project/activity and kid food, maybe in another room so the adults can hang out and not fuss at the kids. -=-
Y'know, I think it's just easier to coach them on table manners.
Unschoolers shouldn't be living in a different universe where kids don't use spoons and forks. I think it's going too far into alternative-whatever-world for a family to say "well we'er unschoolers, so..." and then finish that off with anything that has to do with living in the ways normal people live in the world. Not going to school. Not spanking and yelling. But wearing shoes in restaurants, yes. Being quiet late at night when others are trying to sleep, absolutely. Sitting at the table on a special occasion to eat, at the age of six or seven? I think so.
Sandra
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Y'know, I think it's just easier to coach them on table manners.
Unschoolers shouldn't be living in a different universe where kids don't use spoons and forks. I think it's going too far into alternative-whatever-world for a family to say "well we'er unschoolers, so..." and then finish that off with anything that has to do with living in the ways normal people live in the world. Not going to school. Not spanking and yelling. But wearing shoes in restaurants, yes. Being quiet late at night when others are trying to sleep, absolutely. Sitting at the table on a special occasion to eat, at the age of six or seven? I think so.
Sandra
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otherstar
>>>>Y'know, I think it's just easier to coach them on table manners.<<<<This caught my attention. Coaching is good but it should be done with a good attitude. In the past, I have coached my kids about proper manners but it didn’t work because I had a bad attitude. I was coaching them to do things but my coaching was coming from a place within me where I was not happy about it. I was thinking things like, “Why should have I have to do this? Why can’t people accept the fact that my kids are little and imperfect?” Coaching was not successful for me until I lost my bad attitude and started approaching it as something positive.
>>>Sitting at the table on a special occasion to eat, at the age of six or seven? I think so.<<<<My 7 year old can sit and eat at the table without any problems unless there are other factors at play. For example, going to a big family gathering can be overwhelming for some kids. When my child gets overwhelmed, all of the coaching goes out the window. In those cases, it is important for me to stay close and run a lot of interference to help her be successful. The example that was given earlier was that of a child that got up and was running around during meal time at a family gathering. If the parent knows that the child has that tendency and there is no kids table, ask the host if you can arrange to sit next to your child. Whenever we go anywhere to eat, my husband and I try to sit as close to the kids as possible so we can help them with whatever they need. If we see signs of boredom, we can talk to them or make suggestions as to quiet and fun things that can be done without disturbing others.
Connie
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Sandra Dodd
-=->>>>Y'know, I think it's just easier to coach them on table manners.<<<<
-=-This caught my attention. Coaching is good but it should be done with a good attitude.-=-
Yes, but ALL of life should be done with a good attitude.
I don't want to support or condone someone having children without enough social skills to function, and them blaming it on unschooling.
My kids could sit at a table at a very young age, because we didn't ignore them or make it awful. It was rare, it was special, and they cooperated because they trusted us and they were being included in something as people not as little kids made to do something they didn't want to do.
I never needed to ask anyone if I could sit by my youngest child. I just did it. Thanksgiving, restaurant... who has the authority to say I can't sit with my own baby? It it had been a formal dinner with place cards, I woudn't have had a baby or toddler with me.
Sandra
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-=-This caught my attention. Coaching is good but it should be done with a good attitude.-=-
Yes, but ALL of life should be done with a good attitude.
I don't want to support or condone someone having children without enough social skills to function, and them blaming it on unschooling.
My kids could sit at a table at a very young age, because we didn't ignore them or make it awful. It was rare, it was special, and they cooperated because they trusted us and they were being included in something as people not as little kids made to do something they didn't want to do.
I never needed to ask anyone if I could sit by my youngest child. I just did it. Thanksgiving, restaurant... who has the authority to say I can't sit with my own baby? It it had been a formal dinner with place cards, I woudn't have had a baby or toddler with me.
Sandra
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Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
This part from the original post makes me think mom may be doing too much coaching in the latter sense - and maybe too much talking and explaining, as well:
<<I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the
society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie
especially.>>
If mom's been trying and struggling to explain and the kids aren't interested or ready, or are overwhelmed by too many outings, it's better if she can step back a little, pare those particular experiences down to those which have a good chance of success without much talking.
Kids don't need to be "prepared" in the sense of given lots of little lessons over and over - they don't need lessons on how to behave in public, they need a word to the wise when it will most do some good and some help along the way. If the "word to the wise" is falling on dull ears, then it's better to avoid certain situations for awhile until kids are better able to handle them - better able to actually find the information useful.
---Meredith
>> Y'know, I think it's just easier to coach them on table manners.Coach in the sense of offer helpful information at useful times - not in the sense of regular drills.
This part from the original post makes me think mom may be doing too much coaching in the latter sense - and maybe too much talking and explaining, as well:
<<I'm mindful of my responsibilities in preparing my children to be a part of the
society they live in, but I'm struggling to communicate that to Freddie
especially.>>
If mom's been trying and struggling to explain and the kids aren't interested or ready, or are overwhelmed by too many outings, it's better if she can step back a little, pare those particular experiences down to those which have a good chance of success without much talking.
Kids don't need to be "prepared" in the sense of given lots of little lessons over and over - they don't need lessons on how to behave in public, they need a word to the wise when it will most do some good and some help along the way. If the "word to the wise" is falling on dull ears, then it's better to avoid certain situations for awhile until kids are better able to handle them - better able to actually find the information useful.
---Meredith
otherstar
>>>>I never needed to ask anyone if I could sit by my youngest child. I just did it. Thanksgiving, restaurant... who has the authority to say I can't sit with my own baby? It it had been a formal dinner with place cards, I woudn't have had a baby or toddler with me.<<<<I was thinking of a specific situation from when I used to live with my in-laws and they would host large family get togethers. At the time, I only had three kids that were 8 months, 3, and 6. It was assumed that the younger two would be close to me but it was not assumed that my oldest would want to sit with me or my husband too. My mother-in-law runs a very tight ship and when there were big get togethers she would usually tell people where to sit. It didn’t have to be anything fancy. She liked to tell people where to sit. When she was telling everyone where to sit, I would ask her to make sure that our 6 year old got to sit with me or my husband. Some people think that it wouldn’t/shouldn’t matter where a 6 year old sat. Having our 6 year old close to me or my husband helped tremendously because my mother in law had rules that stipulated that you had to ask to be excused from the table and couldn’t come back once you had been excused. Our then 6 year old could lean over and tell my husband or I what she needed and we could get it for her or help her phrase things so that they were more acceptable to grandma.
It was my mother in laws house so she did have authority to tell people where to sit. I could have chosen to not participate or I could have chosen to try to find ways to make things work. I tried to figure out ways to make things work and one of the things that I did was ask that my 6 year old be next to me or my husband. At big gatherings, the baby was either in my lap or in the high chair and I had my 3 year old on one side and my 6 year old on the other side.
Now that I have four kids, I sit between the youngest two and my husband will try to sit between the oldest two depending on where we are. We tend to not go to restaurants unless it is a buffet or a drive through because big places with lots of noise tend to be too overwhelming for our 4 year old and 7 year old.
Connie
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