Lying :(
Kim Thorvaldson
Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everything. Sadly, I am not exaggerating. I am at a loss as to what to do about it. We have talked about the ramifications of this behavior as a family. Knowing what his behavior is doing to his relationships hasn't changed his desire to lie at all. Have any of you dealt with this level of long-term dishonesty? I'm fresh out of ideas and natural consequences don't seem to be helping him.
Help!
Kim
Help!
Kim
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
What is he lying about?
I think it often happens when kids are around 8ish, they start playing around with the truth. It's more experimenting than lying.
But if you can give more information, that will help. Radical unschooling isn't a method for creating perfect kids but seeing a bigger picture and seeing the child rather than a child with a label that needs fixed.
Joyce
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> Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everythingHow old is he?
What is he lying about?
I think it often happens when kids are around 8ish, they start playing around with the truth. It's more experimenting than lying.
But if you can give more information, that will help. Radical unschooling isn't a method for creating perfect kids but seeing a bigger picture and seeing the child rather than a child with a label that needs fixed.
Joyce
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/61832
(Stick the http:// at the beginning of that. My mail program won't send mail if I don't have enough text to go with a link!)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everythingThere as a good thread last year about lying that will give you something to read while you're waiting.
groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/61832
(Stick the http:// at the beginning of that. My mail program won't send mail if I don't have enough text to go with a link!)
Joyce
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Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm fresh out of ideas and natural consequences don't seem to be helping him. -=-
Please explain what you mean by "natural consequences."
Joyce asked about his age.
How long have you unschooled?
Is there a divorce or step parents? Where is he in birth order? Who else is in the house?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please explain what you mean by "natural consequences."
Joyce asked about his age.
How long have you unschooled?
Is there a divorce or step parents? Where is he in birth order? Who else is in the house?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Thorvaldson
Natural consequences for lying - at any age - include loss of trust with those you lie to.
We have unschooled for two months. We are baby stepping through deschooling. We have been relaxed homeschoolers for over a year. Prior to that, he was in public school and day care.
He will be 10 in June.
Yes, my husband and his mother divorced when he was 4. He sees his mother every other weekend, as she lives nearby.
He is the oldest child in our blended family. The other children are almost 8 year old twin girls and 2 1/2 year old girl.
There are six people in our home. His father, who has custody, myself (stepmother), his two stepsisters, and his half sister, the baby.
Thank you for your willingness to discuss. :)
Kim
We have unschooled for two months. We are baby stepping through deschooling. We have been relaxed homeschoolers for over a year. Prior to that, he was in public school and day care.
He will be 10 in June.
Yes, my husband and his mother divorced when he was 4. He sees his mother every other weekend, as she lives nearby.
He is the oldest child in our blended family. The other children are almost 8 year old twin girls and 2 1/2 year old girl.
There are six people in our home. His father, who has custody, myself (stepmother), his two stepsisters, and his half sister, the baby.
Thank you for your willingness to discuss. :)
Kim
On Mar 21, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-I'm fresh out of ideas and natural consequences don't seem to be helping him. -=-
>
> Please explain what you mean by "natural consequences."
>
> Joyce asked about his age.
>
> How long have you unschooled?
> Is there a divorce or step parents? Where is he in birth order? Who else is in the house?
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Thorvaldson
It's not necessarily that it needs fixing, it's that his choices are hurting his relationships with his family, and I'm at a loss for how to help him.
He has SPD, so his "wiring" requires a little more creativity to help him with social issues. And before anybody gets angry with me for "labeling" him, it is a real neurological difference that does affect his life. We are a mixed household of neurological differences, including myself.
Developmentally, his social age is more in the 8 year old range.
He lies about nearly everything. Any question I ask is likely to be answered with a lie. Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on the counter?"
Kim
He has SPD, so his "wiring" requires a little more creativity to help him with social issues. And before anybody gets angry with me for "labeling" him, it is a real neurological difference that does affect his life. We are a mixed household of neurological differences, including myself.
Developmentally, his social age is more in the 8 year old range.
He lies about nearly everything. Any question I ask is likely to be answered with a lie. Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on the counter?"
Kim
On Mar 21, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
>
> > Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everything
>
> How old is he?
>
> What is he lying about?
>
> I think it often happens when kids are around 8ish, they start playing around with the truth. It's more experimenting than lying.
>
> But if you can give more information, that will help. Radical unschooling isn't a method for creating perfect kids but seeing a bigger picture and seeing the child rather than a child with a label that needs fixed.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Natural consequences for lying - at any age - include loss of trust with those you lie to. -=-
Sure. The way you phrased it the first time, I was thinking maybe you were punishing him. I know what it includes. I wondered what you had been doing when he lied.
Two months isn't really unschooling yet, so one good thing to do is keep moving toward unschooling and see whether the new relationships make him feel more confident and trusted.
Avoid situations that will amount to entrapment. If you see that he's in the habit of lying, don't ask him the kinds of questions that have truth-or-lie answers if you can possibly help it, until you get to a different space with him.
You said he's the oldest of your current family. Does he have older siblings elsewhere?
Sometimes when someone is identifying with another family or parent, they fill in the blanks they don't actually know with fantasies and fibs. They create the bonds they don't actually have, perhaps, or create a strength of relationship that doesn't actually exist. If the lies have to do with the mom or other siblings (if any) or anything about the other side of the divorce, that might be understandable. Not ideal, but also not unusual.
-=-We have unschooled for two months. We are baby stepping through deschooling. We have been relaxed homeschoolers for over a year. Prior to that, he was in public school and day care. -=-
So other things weren't going well, at school or with homeschooling. And he was still a baby when you had the twins. So they have another dad too, maybe. That's a lot of people for him to deal with and process and interact with and have (or fail to have) a relationship with. Poor guy!
It's got to be hard for you and your husband, too. Maybe for a while try to accept without a lot of shaming and pressure that what he says might not be true. Try to keep it from hurting the girls, and try to arrange not to need to act on his reports or accounts, if you can. If you can just let one be there, let it be. If you count and nail him every time, he will continue to lose, as he's losing now. At least take down the scoreboard.
Sandra
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Sure. The way you phrased it the first time, I was thinking maybe you were punishing him. I know what it includes. I wondered what you had been doing when he lied.
Two months isn't really unschooling yet, so one good thing to do is keep moving toward unschooling and see whether the new relationships make him feel more confident and trusted.
Avoid situations that will amount to entrapment. If you see that he's in the habit of lying, don't ask him the kinds of questions that have truth-or-lie answers if you can possibly help it, until you get to a different space with him.
You said he's the oldest of your current family. Does he have older siblings elsewhere?
Sometimes when someone is identifying with another family or parent, they fill in the blanks they don't actually know with fantasies and fibs. They create the bonds they don't actually have, perhaps, or create a strength of relationship that doesn't actually exist. If the lies have to do with the mom or other siblings (if any) or anything about the other side of the divorce, that might be understandable. Not ideal, but also not unusual.
-=-We have unschooled for two months. We are baby stepping through deschooling. We have been relaxed homeschoolers for over a year. Prior to that, he was in public school and day care. -=-
So other things weren't going well, at school or with homeschooling. And he was still a baby when you had the twins. So they have another dad too, maybe. That's a lot of people for him to deal with and process and interact with and have (or fail to have) a relationship with. Poor guy!
It's got to be hard for you and your husband, too. Maybe for a while try to accept without a lot of shaming and pressure that what he says might not be true. Try to keep it from hurting the girls, and try to arrange not to need to act on his reports or accounts, if you can. If you can just let one be there, let it be. If you count and nail him every time, he will continue to lose, as he's losing now. At least take down the scoreboard.
Sandra
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Dola Dasgupta
I am writing after a long time...Joyce's words..about experimenting with
truth...really felt so right here....
My son is 6 and he is currently obsessed with pocketing loose change or
small notes that he sees sometimes on my desk and then puts them into his
piggy bank!
the other day he told his granny that don't leave money around....or else
he will steal them and put it in his piggy bank.....
he often tells me now that he is a professional thief....
We spoke about and it dawned on on us that he needed to have his own
money..to be able to spend as he wished....
My DD is 10 and does not feel the need to have her own money so
deeply.....but I decided to start giving her pocket money too....so that
she can also spend as she wished....
DOLA
truth...really felt so right here....
My son is 6 and he is currently obsessed with pocketing loose change or
small notes that he sees sometimes on my desk and then puts them into his
piggy bank!
the other day he told his granny that don't leave money around....or else
he will steal them and put it in his piggy bank.....
he often tells me now that he is a professional thief....
We spoke about and it dawned on on us that he needed to have his own
money..to be able to spend as he wished....
My DD is 10 and does not feel the need to have her own money so
deeply.....but I decided to start giving her pocket money too....so that
she can also spend as she wished....
DOLA
On Thursday, March 22, 2012, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
>
>> Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everything
>
> How old is he?
>
> What is he lying about?
>
> I think it often happens when kids are around 8ish, they start playing
around with the truth. It's more experimenting than lying.
>
> But if you can give more information, that will help. Radical unschooling
isn't a method for creating perfect kids but seeing a bigger picture and
seeing the child rather than a child with a label that needs fixed.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
thou-art-thy-creator
http://thouartthycreator.wordpress.com/
*"Be kind to yourself and others,*
*Come from love every moment you can,*
*Speak of love with others. Remind each other of your spiritual purpose,*
*Never give up hope,*
*Know that you are loved." - Deepak Chopra from Love Sutras...*
*
*
*'Laughter we share generates more laughter, and the love we create
together spreads by leaps and bounds.' *
*
*
*Much love and warmth*
* Dola Dasgupta*
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Sandra Dodd
-=-the other day he told his granny that don't leave money around....or else
he will steal them and put it in his piggy bank.....-=-
It sounds more like a game, and he's being honest about what he does with it.
Maybe you could leave some out on purpose, in interesting places, for him to find, while reminding him that it's not ever, ever okay to take money from people's purses or wallets. If that seems like a joke to him, talk to him about criminals and jails (very lightly, not horribly). But if he's really liking the idea that he could find a coin and put it in his bank, maybe hiding them for him to find could be fun.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
he will steal them and put it in his piggy bank.....-=-
It sounds more like a game, and he's being honest about what he does with it.
Maybe you could leave some out on purpose, in interesting places, for him to find, while reminding him that it's not ever, ever okay to take money from people's purses or wallets. If that seems like a joke to him, talk to him about criminals and jails (very lightly, not horribly). But if he's really liking the idea that he could find a coin and put it in his bank, maybe hiding them for him to find could be fun.
Sandra
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Schuyler
You wrote that your son has been lying. But he isn't your son. He's your stepson. And that may be a bigger problem than you are acknowledging.
Today I wrote something and I mentioned my mom's husband and my dad's wife and I called them my stepdad and my stepmom. That isn't an easy thing for me to write. They've been in my life for over 20 years; both my parents remarried when I was in my early 20s. Yet I don't think of them as anything but my mom's husband and my dad's wife. I'm glad that they love the people they are with, I'm glad that they have found a new person to love, but they aren't any kind of parent to me, so talking about them as my mom or my dad, in any way, is not something I do comfortably.
Being a step is hard, it takes a recognition of the boundaries of your relationship and if you are the stay at home parent you have a fine line to walk. Don't try to be his mom, 'cause he's got one. Just be his dad's wife the mother of his baby half-sister and as much his friend as you can manage.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Kim Thorvaldson <ThreeHearts429@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2012, 19:56
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Lying :(
Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everything. Sadly, I am not exaggerating. I am at a loss as to what to do about it. We have talked about the ramifications of this behavior as a family. Knowing what his behavior is doing to his relationships hasn't changed his desire to lie at all. Have any of you dealt with this level of long-term dishonesty? I'm fresh out of ideas and natural consequences don't seem to be helping him.
Help!
Kim
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Today I wrote something and I mentioned my mom's husband and my dad's wife and I called them my stepdad and my stepmom. That isn't an easy thing for me to write. They've been in my life for over 20 years; both my parents remarried when I was in my early 20s. Yet I don't think of them as anything but my mom's husband and my dad's wife. I'm glad that they love the people they are with, I'm glad that they have found a new person to love, but they aren't any kind of parent to me, so talking about them as my mom or my dad, in any way, is not something I do comfortably.
Being a step is hard, it takes a recognition of the boundaries of your relationship and if you are the stay at home parent you have a fine line to walk. Don't try to be his mom, 'cause he's got one. Just be his dad's wife the mother of his baby half-sister and as much his friend as you can manage.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Kim Thorvaldson <ThreeHearts429@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2012, 19:56
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Lying :(
Lately, my son has been lying and being deceitful about almost everything. Sadly, I am not exaggerating. I am at a loss as to what to do about it. We have talked about the ramifications of this behavior as a family. Knowing what his behavior is doing to his relationships hasn't changed his desire to lie at all. Have any of you dealt with this level of long-term dishonesty? I'm fresh out of ideas and natural consequences don't seem to be helping him.
Help!
Kim
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
>>He lies about nearly everything. Any question I ask is likely to beanswered with a lie. Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on the
counter?"<<
If you knew it was his cup why did you ask him? Don't ask questions you know the answer to, don't trap him. If you wanted him to get the cup and take it into the kitchen, say "take that cup to the kitchen" and be done with it. If you want to ask him to take a cup to the kitchen, be okay with no being the answer. But don't ask him to deal with something in a passive way and then get mad when he lies about it.
You lied when you asked the question. You pretended you didn't know whose cup it was and then trapped him in a lie when he said it wasn't his. Was it his cup? Or was it just a cup he used? Was it your cup and he was borrowing it to drink from? Does he feel like your home is truly his home?
Let it be. Sandra's advice about letting it go, not keeping score, not asking questions that are about truth or lies kind of answers is really on the mark. And maybe you could read The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce and recognise that it takes a lot to move forward from your parents no longer being together. And give him space and time to heal.
Schuyler
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Robin Bentley
>I'm wondering how that's said - "Is that your cup on the counter?"
> He lies about nearly everything. Any question I ask is likely to be
> answered with a lie. Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on
> the counter?"
>
It could be interpreted as a challenge, an accusation, an
interrogation - a way to find out if he's lying. He *could* be
interpreting it that way, especially if he is sensitive to intonation
or body language.
-=- Knowing what his behavior is doing to his relationships hasn't
changed his desire to lie at all.-=-
Which relationships are being damaged? Why, at 10 (or 8) would he care
or understand what that means? If you are talking to him about that,
it's one more thing for him to feel bad and weird about. Perhaps he's
living up to the expectations that have been set for him as someone
with a disorder.
As Schuyler said, he's in a difficult position in your family. He's
the oldest, with a new step-mom and kids who aren't his sisters and a
new-ish baby sister. He went from being the only (admittedly bounced
around with visitations) kid to the eldest of 4 *and* he has a
diagnosis, too.
I might be lying to get some attention myself.
Maybe you need to help him instead of thinking "this kid's a liar and
he's ruining relationships". Find ways to communicate with him, so he
feels safer. Play with him. Read him a book. Muss his hair. Just do
what needs to be done. State your intentions, like "I'm going to put
this cup in the dishwasher. If you want it, come and get it." Stop
asking questions that require him to respond.
Robin B.
Hope Nilges
Hi all, I'm new to the group and relatively new to RU (we started "leaning in" a little over four years ago and it's hard to discern when we completely embraced it but it didn't take long).
Anyway, I wanted to come out of lurkdom to say that when one of my kids is expressing themselves in ways I don't like my first step is to examine the situation and see if I can figure out why they might have chosen (consciously or not) to use this particular tool in their bag. And that's just what I think lying is- a tool in a person's bag they pull from to help them cope. If lying was the behavior that was bothering me I'd first examine when and why I've been untruthful to try to gain some insights into what they *might* be thinking (might because I don't presume my reasons are theirs, this exercise just helps me put myself in their shoes as a starting point).
So, for lying... I know that in my own life when I've been untruthful with people it was for a few reasons:
-It made me feel more powerful in a situation where I actually had little power. (ie: pretending not to care when we were moving *again*)
-I was trying to avoid unpleasant, artificial punishments.
-I was trying to avoid unpleasant tasks.
-I didn't want to change my parents' (or other important people to me) perceptions of me. I was their good little girl and I felt a strong need (which I still have to fight at times) to please them and never alter that view.
-I was seeking attention (fantastical stories about my experiences at my old school helped me overcome shyness about making friends at a new school).
-I didn't think I was good enough and the fictional me was actually the ideal me.
-Sometimes it's just easier. As I become stronger in my convictions regarding unschooling and other things I don't do this as much but there have certainly been times when I've allowed people to think we school-at-home because I knew they wouldn't "get it" no matter what I said.
I'm sure if you polled 100 people about why they have lied (because we ALL have lied, at some point in our lives- either outright, by omission, misleading phrasing, etc.) you'd get 100 different reasons. My point is that instead of trying to fix your stepson ask yourself if there is anything about the situation that needs to change. If he feels powerless, the need to please, pressure to be perfect, etc. then those things need to change so he won't feel the need to pull lying from his coping tool bag.
Hope
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anyway, I wanted to come out of lurkdom to say that when one of my kids is expressing themselves in ways I don't like my first step is to examine the situation and see if I can figure out why they might have chosen (consciously or not) to use this particular tool in their bag. And that's just what I think lying is- a tool in a person's bag they pull from to help them cope. If lying was the behavior that was bothering me I'd first examine when and why I've been untruthful to try to gain some insights into what they *might* be thinking (might because I don't presume my reasons are theirs, this exercise just helps me put myself in their shoes as a starting point).
So, for lying... I know that in my own life when I've been untruthful with people it was for a few reasons:
-It made me feel more powerful in a situation where I actually had little power. (ie: pretending not to care when we were moving *again*)
-I was trying to avoid unpleasant, artificial punishments.
-I was trying to avoid unpleasant tasks.
-I didn't want to change my parents' (or other important people to me) perceptions of me. I was their good little girl and I felt a strong need (which I still have to fight at times) to please them and never alter that view.
-I was seeking attention (fantastical stories about my experiences at my old school helped me overcome shyness about making friends at a new school).
-I didn't think I was good enough and the fictional me was actually the ideal me.
-Sometimes it's just easier. As I become stronger in my convictions regarding unschooling and other things I don't do this as much but there have certainly been times when I've allowed people to think we school-at-home because I knew they wouldn't "get it" no matter what I said.
I'm sure if you polled 100 people about why they have lied (because we ALL have lied, at some point in our lives- either outright, by omission, misleading phrasing, etc.) you'd get 100 different reasons. My point is that instead of trying to fix your stepson ask yourself if there is anything about the situation that needs to change. If he feels powerless, the need to please, pressure to be perfect, etc. then those things need to change so he won't feel the need to pull lying from his coping tool bag.
Hope
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Hi all, I'm new to the group and relatively new to RU-=-
Thanks for posting,
Please use "unschooling" instead of "RU" (or use radical unschooling) here (and maybe everywhere else).
Special jargon (even "RU" which some pronouce "rue" and some prounounce "are you," both very problematical in English) is confusing and discouraged.
Thanks.
Thanks, too, for the list of possible reasons to lie. They're all good considerations.
-=-I'm sure if you polled 100 people about why they have lied (because we ALL have lied, at some point in our lives- either outright, by omission, misleading phrasing, etc.) you'd get 100 different reasons.-=-
Omission bothers me, in this list, because while "a lie of omission" might be a crime while under oath in court, in a social situation it can be a disaster for someone to feel that not saying everything she thinks is somehow lying.
People think lots of things they shouldn't say in a lifetime. People know things that aren't appropriate to share in every situation.
If a step mother has defined a stepson as a liar, then it will be a problem if she reminds him that he's a liar, but I would hate for her to feel morally obligated to say more than she should out of fear of being dishonest by omission.
At least half the time a parent describes in more detail to me or to this discussion what the problem is between a parent and child, the parent is talking too, too much. Too many words, too many ideas expressed, too much pressure, too much noise. When kids make noise in response, the parent is critical and analytical about the tone, content (and in this case, veracity).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for posting,
Please use "unschooling" instead of "RU" (or use radical unschooling) here (and maybe everywhere else).
Special jargon (even "RU" which some pronouce "rue" and some prounounce "are you," both very problematical in English) is confusing and discouraged.
Thanks.
Thanks, too, for the list of possible reasons to lie. They're all good considerations.
-=-I'm sure if you polled 100 people about why they have lied (because we ALL have lied, at some point in our lives- either outright, by omission, misleading phrasing, etc.) you'd get 100 different reasons.-=-
Omission bothers me, in this list, because while "a lie of omission" might be a crime while under oath in court, in a social situation it can be a disaster for someone to feel that not saying everything she thinks is somehow lying.
People think lots of things they shouldn't say in a lifetime. People know things that aren't appropriate to share in every situation.
If a step mother has defined a stepson as a liar, then it will be a problem if she reminds him that he's a liar, but I would hate for her to feel morally obligated to say more than she should out of fear of being dishonest by omission.
At least half the time a parent describes in more detail to me or to this discussion what the problem is between a parent and child, the parent is talking too, too much. Too many words, too many ideas expressed, too much pressure, too much noise. When kids make noise in response, the parent is critical and analytical about the tone, content (and in this case, veracity).
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Maybe you need to help him instead of thinking "this kid's a liar and
he's ruining relationships". Find ways to communicate with him, so he
feels safer. Play with him. Read him a book. Muss his hair. Just do
what needs to be done. State your intentions, like "I'm going to put
this cup in the dishwasher. If you want it, come and get it." Stop
asking questions that require him to respond.-=-
Good ideas, but as to washing a cup, maybe just wash it and if he needed it give him another one, nicely.
Antagonism has a loser. Sometimes two losers.
Partnership has a team. It takes a while.
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child.html
And he might not ever really want to be your partner.
Still, if you're going to unschool, you at least need to be his learning facilitator, and his life facilitator, just as you would if he were in a hoity-toity alternative school and you were his teacher.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
he's ruining relationships". Find ways to communicate with him, so he
feels safer. Play with him. Read him a book. Muss his hair. Just do
what needs to be done. State your intentions, like "I'm going to put
this cup in the dishwasher. If you want it, come and get it." Stop
asking questions that require him to respond.-=-
Good ideas, but as to washing a cup, maybe just wash it and if he needed it give him another one, nicely.
Antagonism has a loser. Sometimes two losers.
Partnership has a team. It takes a while.
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child.html
And he might not ever really want to be your partner.
Still, if you're going to unschool, you at least need to be his learning facilitator, and his life facilitator, just as you would if he were in a hoity-toity alternative school and you were his teacher.
Sandra
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Meredith
Kim Thorvaldson <ThreeHearts429@...> wrote:
Just to clarify, are you telling him that, or is he having trouble with friends and family members? If you're telling him, he may still be tuning you out, hearing "bwa bwa bwa, bwah" rather than anything meaningful.
You wrote that he was "lying and being deceitful about almost everything" - that's pretty broad. Is he telling stories and exaggerating and making things up? That could be something to play with, let him explore the art of storytelling. Is he "getting in trouble" and then lying about it? That's a different matter! It would probably help him if you made sure there weren't so many Nos and limits in his life so he doesn't feel like he's caught between a rock and a hard place in order to get what he wants.
Oh, sorry, in a later post you gave an example:
Each time he lies, use it as an opportunity to take a look at your parenting and see what you could be doing differently, to make his life sweeter and more peaceful.
---Meredith
>****************
> Natural consequences for lying - at any age - include loss of trust with those you lie to.
Just to clarify, are you telling him that, or is he having trouble with friends and family members? If you're telling him, he may still be tuning you out, hearing "bwa bwa bwa, bwah" rather than anything meaningful.
You wrote that he was "lying and being deceitful about almost everything" - that's pretty broad. Is he telling stories and exaggerating and making things up? That could be something to play with, let him explore the art of storytelling. Is he "getting in trouble" and then lying about it? That's a different matter! It would probably help him if you made sure there weren't so many Nos and limits in his life so he doesn't feel like he's caught between a rock and a hard place in order to get what he wants.
Oh, sorry, in a later post you gave an example:
>>Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on the counter?"Why would you ask? That's important to think about. If he says yes, will he then be told "well, go put it in the sink"? That's what I mean about lying to avoid getting in trouble - maybe not big trouble in that case, but it sets him up to be told what to do, to have his life regulated by someone else. Don't ask about the cup, just put it in the sink for him and be done with it.
Each time he lies, use it as an opportunity to take a look at your parenting and see what you could be doing differently, to make his life sweeter and more peaceful.
---Meredith
Robin Bentley
>Good point! I was going to modify that "If you want it" part, after re-
> Good ideas, but as to washing a cup, maybe just wash it and if he
> needed it give him another one, nicely.
reading it.
>I was thinking about step-parents' expectations of "one big happy
> Antagonism has a loser. Sometimes two losers.
> Partnership has a team. It takes a while.
> http://sandradodd.com/partners/child.html
>
> And he might not ever really want to be your partner.
family" and how likely that is to occur. Sometimes it's hard in a
biological family with widely differing personalities. Blended
families probably take even more work to get to something that looks
like partnership. And a whole lot of patience, too.
Robin B.
Hope Nilges
=Please use "unschooling" instead of "RU" (or use radical unschooling) here (and maybe everywhere else).
Special jargon (even "RU" which some pronouce "rue" and some prounounce
"are you," both very problematical in English) is confusing and
discouraged.=
Thanks for pointing that out.
It's always helpful to know these things up front instead of annoying
everyone unknowingly.
=Omission bothers me, in this list, because while "a lie of omission" might be a crime while under oath in court, in a social situation it can be a disaster for someone to feel that not saying everything she thinks is somehow lying.=
Good point, I should have been more clear. What I actually meant was intentionally omitting information with the intent to deceive. Such as hiding a broken dish in the bottom of the trash or not telling your spouse about those new shoes already tucked away in the back of the closet. My intent was to illustrate that calling someone a liar when we are all capable of varying degrees of dishonesty is somewhat hypocritical. However, I didn't explain that well and I can see where it could be misconstrued.
Hope
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Special jargon (even "RU" which some pronouce "rue" and some prounounce
"are you," both very problematical in English) is confusing and
discouraged.=
Thanks for pointing that out.
It's always helpful to know these things up front instead of annoying
everyone unknowingly.
=Omission bothers me, in this list, because while "a lie of omission" might be a crime while under oath in court, in a social situation it can be a disaster for someone to feel that not saying everything she thinks is somehow lying.=
Good point, I should have been more clear. What I actually meant was intentionally omitting information with the intent to deceive. Such as hiding a broken dish in the bottom of the trash or not telling your spouse about those new shoes already tucked away in the back of the closet. My intent was to illustrate that calling someone a liar when we are all capable of varying degrees of dishonesty is somewhat hypocritical. However, I didn't explain that well and I can see where it could be misconstrued.
Hope
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Kim Thorvaldson
***If you knew it was his cup why did you ask him? Don't ask questions you know the answer to, don't trap him. If you wanted him to get the cup and take it into the kitchen, say "take that cup to the kitchen" and be done with it. If you want to ask him to take a cup to the kitchen, be okay with no being the answer. But don't ask him to deal with something in a passive way and then get mad when he lies about it.
You lied when you asked the question. You pretended you didn't know whose cup it was and then trapped him in a lie when he said it wasn't his. Was it his cup? Or was it just a cup he used? Was it your cup and he was borrowing it to drink from? Does he feel like your home is truly his home?***
Oh, goodness. :) It was just a hypothetical question I pulled out of thin air to show that it could be anything.
And, yes, this is his home. :)
I'll use an actual situation this time.
We go to a homeschool recess group twice a week. My friend's son brought a Koosh ball with him one day. When we were getting ready to leave, I noticed my son had the ball in his hands.
I said, "Honey, please go give that to your friend. He's getting ready to leave."
He said, "He gave it to me."
The next time we went to the park, my friend was asking if we had seen it. Her son had been looking for it frantically because he thought he had lost it.
I told my son what had happened, and he maintained his story even when the little boy was standing in front of him crying because he realized he had taken it.
Here's another one.
His sisters went to Disney with their father. They brought home little bags of chocolate covered malt balls. They put the bags in the kitchen cabinet outside of curious toddler range. :)
The next day, one of the bags was open and obviously missing some candy. The rightful owner of the candy was very upset. I checked with my husband to see if he had taken a few, he said no. I didn't touch them, and the baby couldn't reach.
So, we discussed the situation together, expressing concern that we were being dishonest with each other. Both girls were upset that their special treat had been eaten and were in tears. After many adamant denials, my son eventually confessed to eating about half the bag before anyone else was awake in the morning.
Kim
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You lied when you asked the question. You pretended you didn't know whose cup it was and then trapped him in a lie when he said it wasn't his. Was it his cup? Or was it just a cup he used? Was it your cup and he was borrowing it to drink from? Does he feel like your home is truly his home?***
Oh, goodness. :) It was just a hypothetical question I pulled out of thin air to show that it could be anything.
And, yes, this is his home. :)
I'll use an actual situation this time.
We go to a homeschool recess group twice a week. My friend's son brought a Koosh ball with him one day. When we were getting ready to leave, I noticed my son had the ball in his hands.
I said, "Honey, please go give that to your friend. He's getting ready to leave."
He said, "He gave it to me."
The next time we went to the park, my friend was asking if we had seen it. Her son had been looking for it frantically because he thought he had lost it.
I told my son what had happened, and he maintained his story even when the little boy was standing in front of him crying because he realized he had taken it.
Here's another one.
His sisters went to Disney with their father. They brought home little bags of chocolate covered malt balls. They put the bags in the kitchen cabinet outside of curious toddler range. :)
The next day, one of the bags was open and obviously missing some candy. The rightful owner of the candy was very upset. I checked with my husband to see if he had taken a few, he said no. I didn't touch them, and the baby couldn't reach.
So, we discussed the situation together, expressing concern that we were being dishonest with each other. Both girls were upset that their special treat had been eaten and were in tears. After many adamant denials, my son eventually confessed to eating about half the bag before anyone else was awake in the morning.
Kim
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Kim Thorvaldson
Which relationships are being damaged? Why, at 10 (or 8) would he care
or understand what that means? If you are talking to him about that,
it's one more thing for him to feel bad and weird about. Perhaps he's
living up to the expectations that have been set for him as someone
with a disorder.
He doesn't know that he has SPD. He does know that he, his sister, and I all have ADHD. He is not singled out around here, he's one of many with similar wiring. We celebrate it. When we explain it to the kids, we compare it to Apple and IBM computers - they're both computers and do the same job, it's just the way they do things that's different. Different "wiring". :) It's never a "disorder". Additionally, among our friends, there is at least one child in each family with similar wiring to us or is on the ASD spectrum. Again, it is celebrated and embraced by all. And all varieties of wiring are celebrated and embraced equally. The human brain is a beautiful thing. :)
As for the relationships being damaged, it's between him and his family and friends. Because he chooses to lie to all of us, his sisters and friends choose not to trust him. We sadly think twice when he says anything. It's awful and heartbreaking to see his hurt and not be able to help. I would love to be able to just let it be, but it affects him and so many other people. Please read the response I posted before this for specific examples of how it affects his family and friends. That's why I posted here for ideas of ways to help him. I'm at a loss for what else to do beyond explaining the consequences of his choice each time he lies. Because that isn't working. He's just lying more often. I find it unfathomable that he might not understand that lying causes people to not trust you and is hurtful.
And he gets plenty of positive attention. :) We have parent/kid one-on-one dates regularly. The kids all plan family activities for us to enjoy together. I am home with them 24/7. We do all sorts of things together, including playing, board games, video games, gardening, crafts, reading, outings, cooking, etc.
Kim
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or understand what that means? If you are talking to him about that,
it's one more thing for him to feel bad and weird about. Perhaps he's
living up to the expectations that have been set for him as someone
with a disorder.
He doesn't know that he has SPD. He does know that he, his sister, and I all have ADHD. He is not singled out around here, he's one of many with similar wiring. We celebrate it. When we explain it to the kids, we compare it to Apple and IBM computers - they're both computers and do the same job, it's just the way they do things that's different. Different "wiring". :) It's never a "disorder". Additionally, among our friends, there is at least one child in each family with similar wiring to us or is on the ASD spectrum. Again, it is celebrated and embraced by all. And all varieties of wiring are celebrated and embraced equally. The human brain is a beautiful thing. :)
As for the relationships being damaged, it's between him and his family and friends. Because he chooses to lie to all of us, his sisters and friends choose not to trust him. We sadly think twice when he says anything. It's awful and heartbreaking to see his hurt and not be able to help. I would love to be able to just let it be, but it affects him and so many other people. Please read the response I posted before this for specific examples of how it affects his family and friends. That's why I posted here for ideas of ways to help him. I'm at a loss for what else to do beyond explaining the consequences of his choice each time he lies. Because that isn't working. He's just lying more often. I find it unfathomable that he might not understand that lying causes people to not trust you and is hurtful.
And he gets plenty of positive attention. :) We have parent/kid one-on-one dates regularly. The kids all plan family activities for us to enjoy together. I am home with them 24/7. We do all sorts of things together, including playing, board games, video games, gardening, crafts, reading, outings, cooking, etc.
Kim
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lalow
I have a 6 year old that tends to do this. Although i initially looked at it as lying, i now look at it as denying. I think kids, especially those who have been through traumatic experiences react from fear without concsiousy think about it. My son denies almost everything immediately. For example, hes playing with my daughters markers and gets up to do something else, she comes in and says," who left thelid off my marker?". He immediately denies it.
Things that have helped us is not to ask questions about who did what. If i suspect or know he did something, for example the markers, i just call andnicely ask him if would help me clean up the markers so we can keep them nice for his sister. Usually he complies happily. If accused and then ordered to clean them up he gets mad and resentful.
Try to help reduce the number of oppurtunities for him to lie. When i do ask a question about who did something, i will often preface with assurance that im not angry just want to talk about it.
Things that have helped us is not to ask questions about who did what. If i suspect or know he did something, for example the markers, i just call andnicely ask him if would help me clean up the markers so we can keep them nice for his sister. Usually he complies happily. If accused and then ordered to clean them up he gets mad and resentful.
Try to help reduce the number of oppurtunities for him to lie. When i do ask a question about who did something, i will often preface with assurance that im not angry just want to talk about it.
>
> He lies about nearly everything. Any question I ask is likely to be answered with a lie. Even simple things like, "Is that your cup on the counter?"
>
> Kim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
jo kirby
Hi Kim,
I thought it was interesting that both of these real examples involve your son trying to get something. I wonder if that's an avenue which might be worth exploring? I mean,�is he getting enough of a sense of abundance for himself? Perhaps he feels jealous of the sweets and the ball? Often I think you can pre-empt jealously, I mean, if his sisters come home with two special bags of sweets, could you gather him up as soon as possible and take him to the store to pick out some for himself so he has his own bag?
All the best,
Jo
I thought it was interesting that both of these real examples involve your son trying to get something. I wonder if that's an avenue which might be worth exploring? I mean,�is he getting enough of a sense of abundance for himself? Perhaps he feels jealous of the sweets and the ball? Often I think you can pre-empt jealously, I mean, if his sisters come home with two special bags of sweets, could you gather him up as soon as possible and take him to the store to pick out some for himself so he has his own bag?
All the best,
Jo
Colleen
***His sisters went to Disney with their father. They brought home little bags of chocolate covered malt balls. They put the bags in the kitchen cabinet outside of curious toddler range. :) The next day, one of the bags was open and obviously missing some candy. The rightful owner of the candy was very upset. I checked with my husband to see if he had taken a few, he said no. I didn't touch them, and the baby couldn't reach. So, we discussed the situation together, expressing concern that we were being dishonest with each other. Both girls were upset that their special treat had been eaten and were in tears. After many adamant denials, my son eventually confessed to eating about half the bag before anyone else was awake in the morning.***
His sisters went to Disney and he didn't because he didn't want to, or wasn't invited, or ??
And they brought home candy for themselves and not for him because ?
You don't need to answer these questions on-list but they might be something you want to think about. I should think that any young child, presented with sisters who went to Disney and got candy, would be feeling rather crummy and would want a piece of that for themselves. And since he couldn't get a piece of the trip, what he was left with is getting himself some of the "treats" that came home.
My family went to my sister's house for Easter when my son was 5 years old. My sister's inlaws were there. They had bought Easter Baskets full of candy and toys for my sister's 2 children, and presented these baskets to her children in front of my son. They gave him nothing.
I have never in my life given something to one child when there were other children around. I would get no joy out of making some children happy while others looked on with nothing. All I could think that Easter as I watched was "who does that? What kind of person is happy doing that??" We haven't gone to her house for holidays where the inlaws will be there again :-)
I also wonder if you knew you hadn't eaten the candy, your husband hadn't, and your girls hadn't then you knew your stepson had.
Confronting him and watching him deny it over and over and then finally admit what he had done I'm not sure what that proved? You knew he had done it. You could have addressed why it happened and why it wasn't ok, without needing to push him til he admitted what you already knew.
I'd think of that going like this - "gosh I can see that you got into the girls' candy and ate some. It must have been hard to know there was candy in the house for your sisters, and none for you. Next time they bring candy home I'll make sure there's some for you too." Something along those lines not necessarily with that many words or that exact way.
I was raised in a "blended family" and in many ways it wasn't a ton of fun. It's not easy, sharing your parent living where there might be different rules and expectations for different children, depending if they're dad's kids or mom's kids or shared kids etc. If your stepson is lying, taking candy, sneaking around now it'd be much better to build up a supportive relationship with him then to accuse and confront him. Later instead of candy, it could be money from your wallet liquor from the liquor cabinet things like that that start to go missing (that's what I saw happen at my house growing up). If he sees you as an adversary instead of a friend, things will get harder not easier.
His sisters went to Disney and he didn't because he didn't want to, or wasn't invited, or ??
And they brought home candy for themselves and not for him because ?
You don't need to answer these questions on-list but they might be something you want to think about. I should think that any young child, presented with sisters who went to Disney and got candy, would be feeling rather crummy and would want a piece of that for themselves. And since he couldn't get a piece of the trip, what he was left with is getting himself some of the "treats" that came home.
My family went to my sister's house for Easter when my son was 5 years old. My sister's inlaws were there. They had bought Easter Baskets full of candy and toys for my sister's 2 children, and presented these baskets to her children in front of my son. They gave him nothing.
I have never in my life given something to one child when there were other children around. I would get no joy out of making some children happy while others looked on with nothing. All I could think that Easter as I watched was "who does that? What kind of person is happy doing that??" We haven't gone to her house for holidays where the inlaws will be there again :-)
I also wonder if you knew you hadn't eaten the candy, your husband hadn't, and your girls hadn't then you knew your stepson had.
Confronting him and watching him deny it over and over and then finally admit what he had done I'm not sure what that proved? You knew he had done it. You could have addressed why it happened and why it wasn't ok, without needing to push him til he admitted what you already knew.
I'd think of that going like this - "gosh I can see that you got into the girls' candy and ate some. It must have been hard to know there was candy in the house for your sisters, and none for you. Next time they bring candy home I'll make sure there's some for you too." Something along those lines not necessarily with that many words or that exact way.
I was raised in a "blended family" and in many ways it wasn't a ton of fun. It's not easy, sharing your parent living where there might be different rules and expectations for different children, depending if they're dad's kids or mom's kids or shared kids etc. If your stepson is lying, taking candy, sneaking around now it'd be much better to build up a supportive relationship with him then to accuse and confront him. Later instead of candy, it could be money from your wallet liquor from the liquor cabinet things like that that start to go missing (that's what I saw happen at my house growing up). If he sees you as an adversary instead of a friend, things will get harder not easier.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 23, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
Rather than focusing on how poor the tool he's using is, focus on helping him get what he wants in more socially acceptable ways. Think about the last time someone reamed you out for trying to get something in the wrong way. Like standing in the wrong line. It can make you feel like the worst criminal! But, if instead, someone says "Here, let me help you .." the atmosphere changes completely.
Joyce
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> We sadly think twice when he says anything. It's awful andAt this point since you've told him numerous times, the problem isn't one of lack of understanding. It's not having the tools or ability to use them or the maturity to wait to get what he wants without lying.
> heartbreaking to see his hurt and not be able to help. I would
> love to be able to just let it be, but it affects him and so many other people.
Rather than focusing on how poor the tool he's using is, focus on helping him get what he wants in more socially acceptable ways. Think about the last time someone reamed you out for trying to get something in the wrong way. Like standing in the wrong line. It can make you feel like the worst criminal! But, if instead, someone says "Here, let me help you .." the atmosphere changes completely.
Joyce
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Joyce Fetteroll
> I told my son what had happened, and he maintained his storyMaybe his story *is* what he heard. We don't always take in what other people say accurately. So what the other boy said may be different from what you son heard.
> even when the little boy was standing in front of him crying
> because he realized he had taken it.
Since you know his version may not line up with what other people say, I'd accept that and compensate. You could have said "Let's just double check with him to make sure he still does want you to have it."
If he balked, suggesting he knew the boy hadn't given it to him, my next guess is he wouldn't be confident that if he asked if you could buy him one that you'd say yes. So you could say, "Why don't we stop on the way home and get you one?"
Can you see him being stuck between a lie to get what he wants or the truth that gets him nothing?
> His sisters went to Disney with their father. They broughtDid they bring a bag home for him? Even as an adult, I get miffed if people walk into the house with treats without having thought about bringing me one.
> home little bags of chocolate covered malt balls.
> They put the bags in the kitchen cabinet outside of curious toddler range.It should be out of his range too if he can't have it. Don't set him up to fail.
Even better would be to take him out so he can pick out his own treat.
Joyce
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
It's conventional, adopted-Christian belief that children need the badness knocked out of them in order to be good.
A more relationship building view is that children inherently want to be nice but have needs and wants that they're trying to meet. Being nice *and* getting what you is a complex process. Kids are lacking in both tools and power. They need you to be their tools and their power while they work on building their own and getting older.
Joyce
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> Oh, goodness. :) It was just a hypothetical question IIt *couldn't* be anything. And that may be where you're getting stuck. People do things for reasons. See actions as communication, as indicators of a child trying to get something they want.
> pulled out of thin air to show that it could be anything.
It's conventional, adopted-Christian belief that children need the badness knocked out of them in order to be good.
A more relationship building view is that children inherently want to be nice but have needs and wants that they're trying to meet. Being nice *and* getting what you is a complex process. Kids are lacking in both tools and power. They need you to be their tools and their power while they work on building their own and getting older.
Joyce
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Kim Thorvaldson
-=-It's got to be hard for you and your husband, too. Maybe for a while try to accept without a lot of shaming and pressure that what he says might not be true. Try to keep it from hurting the girls, and try to arrange not to need to act on his reports or accounts, if you can. If you can just let one be there, let it be. If you count and nail him every time, he will continue to lose, as he's losing now. At least take down the scoreboard.-=-
Thank you.
We are trying very hard to avoid the shaming and blaming. It's a challenge, considering our harsh upbringing tells us to punish. Ouch. :( I give myself a time out in my bedroom until I can deal with the situation without being an ugly knee jerk.
I very much appreciate your advice to try to arrange not to need to act on his reports or accounts. I really do think that will alleviate a big chunk of the lying choices he is making.
Kim
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Thank you.
We are trying very hard to avoid the shaming and blaming. It's a challenge, considering our harsh upbringing tells us to punish. Ouch. :( I give myself a time out in my bedroom until I can deal with the situation without being an ugly knee jerk.
I very much appreciate your advice to try to arrange not to need to act on his reports or accounts. I really do think that will alleviate a big chunk of the lying choices he is making.
Kim
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Kim Thorvaldson
-=-I have a 6 year old that tends to do this. Although i initially looked at it as lying, i now look at it as denying. I think kids, especially those who have been through traumatic experiences react from fear without concsiousy think about it. My son denies almost everything immediately. For example, hes playing with my daughters markers and gets up to do something else, she comes in and says," who left thelid off my marker?". He immediately denies it.
-=-Things that have helped us is not to ask questions about who did what. If i suspect or know he did something, for example the markers, i just call andnicely ask him if would help me clean up the markers so we can keep them nice for his sister. Usually he complies happily. If accused and then ordered to clean them up he gets mad and resentful.
-=-Try to help reduce the number of oppurtunities for him to lie. When i do ask a question about who did something, i will often preface with assurance that im not angry just want to talk about it. -=-
Wow! Yes! Thank you. That adds beautifully to Sandra's suggestion to not need his responses that would lead him to lie.
Kim
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-=-Things that have helped us is not to ask questions about who did what. If i suspect or know he did something, for example the markers, i just call andnicely ask him if would help me clean up the markers so we can keep them nice for his sister. Usually he complies happily. If accused and then ordered to clean them up he gets mad and resentful.
-=-Try to help reduce the number of oppurtunities for him to lie. When i do ask a question about who did something, i will often preface with assurance that im not angry just want to talk about it. -=-
Wow! Yes! Thank you. That adds beautifully to Sandra's suggestion to not need his responses that would lead him to lie.
Kim
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Kim Thorvaldson
-=-His sisters went to Disney and he didn't because he didn't want to, or wasn't invited, or ??
-=-And they brought home candy for themselves and not for him because�?-=-
I'm sorry I didn't clarify. They have different fathers. The girls went with their biological father while on visitation.
Kim
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-=-And they brought home candy for themselves and not for him because�?-=-
I'm sorry I didn't clarify. They have different fathers. The girls went with their biological father while on visitation.
Kim
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Kim Thorvaldson
The ghost of Sandra pops in here to edit a post that came without quotes. It's a quote until this line comes back in:
********************
Even better would be to take him out so he can pick out his own treat.
********************
The situation with the Koosh was very straightforward. My son knew who it belonged to. He knew it wasn't given to him. He wanted it, so he took it. Generally normal behavior at some point in a child's life. The problem was that when we brought it back to recess and the boy asked for his toy back, he maintained the lie even though it brought the other boy to tears. We have plenty of sensory type toys at home, including Koosh style balls. I'm not sure why this one had more meaning to him than the ones we already have.
As far as the candy goes, the kids have access to a variety of candy at all times. We have a big candy jar right on the counter - chocolate, gum, hard candy, mints, the works. Every time we go to the grocery store, we pick out something fun to add to the jar. There are even little single packets of Whoppers in there leftover from Halloween. :) But he still opened the malt balls the girls' dad got them in a sneaky way and lied about it when they were upset with him. Again, I'm not sure why these malt balls had more meaning to him than the ones we already had.
This is exactly why we are struggling with this. He has candy. He has attention. He has toys. He has his own room. We get him the things he wants within reason (we're not rich lol). Heck, each kid even has their own laptop computer that they received as a Christmas present. We all honor the laws of property in our home. If it belongs to one person, we don't use/eat it without permission. If it belongs to all, we share fairly.
Kim
********************
> I told my son what had happened, and he maintained his storyMaybe his story *is* what he heard. We don't always take in what other people say accurately. So what the other boy said may be different from what you son heard.
> even when the little boy was standing in front of him crying
> because he realized he had taken it.
> His sisters went to Disney with their father. They broughtDid they bring a bag home for him? Even as an adult, I get miffed if people walk into the house with treats without having thought about bringing me one.
> home little bags of chocolate covered malt balls.
> They put the bags in the kitchen cabinet outside of curious toddler range.It should be out of his range too if he can't have it. Don't set him up to fail.
Even better would be to take him out so he can pick out his own treat.
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The situation with the Koosh was very straightforward. My son knew who it belonged to. He knew it wasn't given to him. He wanted it, so he took it. Generally normal behavior at some point in a child's life. The problem was that when we brought it back to recess and the boy asked for his toy back, he maintained the lie even though it brought the other boy to tears. We have plenty of sensory type toys at home, including Koosh style balls. I'm not sure why this one had more meaning to him than the ones we already have.
As far as the candy goes, the kids have access to a variety of candy at all times. We have a big candy jar right on the counter - chocolate, gum, hard candy, mints, the works. Every time we go to the grocery store, we pick out something fun to add to the jar. There are even little single packets of Whoppers in there leftover from Halloween. :) But he still opened the malt balls the girls' dad got them in a sneaky way and lied about it when they were upset with him. Again, I'm not sure why these malt balls had more meaning to him than the ones we already had.
This is exactly why we are struggling with this. He has candy. He has attention. He has toys. He has his own room. We get him the things he wants within reason (we're not rich lol). Heck, each kid even has their own laptop computer that they received as a Christmas present. We all honor the laws of property in our home. If it belongs to one person, we don't use/eat it without permission. If it belongs to all, we share fairly.
Kim