Unschooling different ages
sarah
Hi - I have been on the group awhile, been reading about unschooling for longer. I have 2 kids; a 7yo boy and a 3yo girl.
I'm finding it hard to feel that I'm unschooling. What I mean is, I want to devote my time and energy to each child equally, but I find that the 3yo is very vocal about having most of my attention. I know this is normal for a 3yo, but what happens is my 7yo spends a lot of time alone, doing Lego, watching videos, etc.
I would prefer to be sitting with him and participating - really sitting with BOTH of them and participating, but the 3yo crawls all over us, and it's impossible. My 7yo gets frustrated, my 3yo gets destructive, and I end up having to take her out of the room.
I feel really guilty about this. I feel like I am letting him down. I see what unschooling can be, but I don't see how to implement it when their needs are so different.
Of course we have activities that include both of them, like trips to play places, museums, parks, etc. But it's at home that I feel like I'm relegating my older child to the back of the bus. I feel like his life experiences could be SO much richer, if I could give him more time.
Part of me feels like they are so young, perhaps I don't need to worry about it too much, that my 3yo clinger will soon be a 5 or 6yo more independent kid, and then I will be able to devote my time more equally.
Perhaps this is just how it is with more than one kid?
Or are there suggestions for more things they can be doing together? 7 and 3 are pretty far apart in terms of interests and abilities, although they do sometimes, occasionally find common ground. They like to sword fight, play with bubbles, and sometimes play cars. They get along well emotionally. They are generally quite good and sweet siblings, they just prefer different activities - but both really wanting me involved. And I WANT to be involved, I just need to duplicate myself.
In terms of schedule, my 3yo wakes up first, so she and I read and play until my 7yo gets up. My 3yo doesn't nap, so there is no midday break where I might have some good time with my 7yo. My 3yo goes to bed first, and my 7yo spends time until bedtime doing computer games with his dad. So there are no natural places in the day where my 7yo and I can be together.
I have thought of hiring a sitter to take my daughter out once a week, but I already have sitter 2-3 days a week so that I may work and run errands (the kids hate errands, so I try and do them alone), so I feel a little bad having the 3yo with a sitter for even more time.
Should I wait it out, or are there some some suggestions for games activities we can all do together? Maybe we just need to get out more?
Thanks,
Sarah
I'm finding it hard to feel that I'm unschooling. What I mean is, I want to devote my time and energy to each child equally, but I find that the 3yo is very vocal about having most of my attention. I know this is normal for a 3yo, but what happens is my 7yo spends a lot of time alone, doing Lego, watching videos, etc.
I would prefer to be sitting with him and participating - really sitting with BOTH of them and participating, but the 3yo crawls all over us, and it's impossible. My 7yo gets frustrated, my 3yo gets destructive, and I end up having to take her out of the room.
I feel really guilty about this. I feel like I am letting him down. I see what unschooling can be, but I don't see how to implement it when their needs are so different.
Of course we have activities that include both of them, like trips to play places, museums, parks, etc. But it's at home that I feel like I'm relegating my older child to the back of the bus. I feel like his life experiences could be SO much richer, if I could give him more time.
Part of me feels like they are so young, perhaps I don't need to worry about it too much, that my 3yo clinger will soon be a 5 or 6yo more independent kid, and then I will be able to devote my time more equally.
Perhaps this is just how it is with more than one kid?
Or are there suggestions for more things they can be doing together? 7 and 3 are pretty far apart in terms of interests and abilities, although they do sometimes, occasionally find common ground. They like to sword fight, play with bubbles, and sometimes play cars. They get along well emotionally. They are generally quite good and sweet siblings, they just prefer different activities - but both really wanting me involved. And I WANT to be involved, I just need to duplicate myself.
In terms of schedule, my 3yo wakes up first, so she and I read and play until my 7yo gets up. My 3yo doesn't nap, so there is no midday break where I might have some good time with my 7yo. My 3yo goes to bed first, and my 7yo spends time until bedtime doing computer games with his dad. So there are no natural places in the day where my 7yo and I can be together.
I have thought of hiring a sitter to take my daughter out once a week, but I already have sitter 2-3 days a week so that I may work and run errands (the kids hate errands, so I try and do them alone), so I feel a little bad having the 3yo with a sitter for even more time.
Should I wait it out, or are there some some suggestions for games activities we can all do together? Maybe we just need to get out more?
Thanks,
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
-=-I want to devote my time and energy to each child equally-=-
"Equal" isn't always "fair."
-=- My 7yo gets frustrated, my 3yo gets destructive, and I end up having to take her out of the room.-=-
She won't be three for more than a year.
You could play with her near him, and talk to him while you physically play with her, maybe.
-=-I have thought of hiring a sitter to take my daughter out once a week,-=-
I couple of things I did, with three in a five year range, was hire mother's helper sometimes, to be in the house while Iw as there. We had a neighbor who was homeschooled (not unschooled) and she worked for us from the time she was 12 until she was 15, at least two hours a week, and often six or more. It was great for her. I paid her $3 an hour when she was young and $6 when she was old enough to babysit without me, or $5 when she was older and I was home. It might need to be more nowadays, and depending where you are, if you can find someone. Another idea is to find a playmate for your son, someone (male or female, not necessarily exactly his age) to invite with you when you go to the zoo or a playground or museum. It will take the pressure off everyone. We often found that inviting one other child helped everyone get along better, and made the experience different, too, and special.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Equal" isn't always "fair."
-=- My 7yo gets frustrated, my 3yo gets destructive, and I end up having to take her out of the room.-=-
She won't be three for more than a year.
You could play with her near him, and talk to him while you physically play with her, maybe.
-=-I have thought of hiring a sitter to take my daughter out once a week,-=-
I couple of things I did, with three in a five year range, was hire mother's helper sometimes, to be in the house while Iw as there. We had a neighbor who was homeschooled (not unschooled) and she worked for us from the time she was 12 until she was 15, at least two hours a week, and often six or more. It was great for her. I paid her $3 an hour when she was young and $6 when she was old enough to babysit without me, or $5 when she was older and I was home. It might need to be more nowadays, and depending where you are, if you can find someone. Another idea is to find a playmate for your son, someone (male or female, not necessarily exactly his age) to invite with you when you go to the zoo or a playground or museum. It will take the pressure off everyone. We often found that inviting one other child helped everyone get along better, and made the experience different, too, and special.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandynn Stanford
Thank you for asking this question. I was gearing up to ask a similar one myself, but will digest the answers that come from yours. I have five children, girls ages 16, 6, and 11 months, and boys ages 13 and 7. We've unschooled curriculum-wise for many years, and a lot life-wise, but it's only the last few months that I'm coming to better see the beauty when it applies to everything. Working on learning to not overlook the teenagers in the midst of the bustle with little ones.
A thought I had for you regarding errands - perhaps take just the 7 year old with you on errands sometime? He probably dislikes errands when little sister tags along, but going with you one-on-one would be much different. When I take my 7 year old by himself (nursing baby has to come, but he likes her), we get a chance to talk and laugh and share and listen (me) much more than when siblings are in the mix. I slow the pace as much as I can. We can stroll aisles he wants to spend time on because other kids aren't there wanting to get to their aisles. We pick out a pack of gum or candy bar to share, or get a soda, and it's like we're dining at the Ritz Carlton. Later during the day/week I whisper in his ear how much I enjoyed being with him, how much I love him, etc.
Gideon also loves for me to read to him. So I will find times when the baby is fed and happy and will have her on the floor playing with something she hasn't seen in awhile, with Gideon is tucked in my lap. Meribee may crawl up on us now and then, but we generally get a good ten to fifteen minutes of snuggling and reading. Not a lot of time, but it helps.
I make sure to tussle his hair as he runs by during the day, stop and give him a five second hug, thank him for helping me get such and such down from the cabinet, etc. We have a bedtime routine that he instituted and he loves that every night I follow his request to "scratch my back, rub my arms, and run your fingers through my hair."
It's wonderful that yours have a good relationship with each other. My 16 and 13's did when they were little and continue to do so today (most of the time!) and it's a joy to see the richness between them when they're together.
~ Brandynn
A thought I had for you regarding errands - perhaps take just the 7 year old with you on errands sometime? He probably dislikes errands when little sister tags along, but going with you one-on-one would be much different. When I take my 7 year old by himself (nursing baby has to come, but he likes her), we get a chance to talk and laugh and share and listen (me) much more than when siblings are in the mix. I slow the pace as much as I can. We can stroll aisles he wants to spend time on because other kids aren't there wanting to get to their aisles. We pick out a pack of gum or candy bar to share, or get a soda, and it's like we're dining at the Ritz Carlton. Later during the day/week I whisper in his ear how much I enjoyed being with him, how much I love him, etc.
Gideon also loves for me to read to him. So I will find times when the baby is fed and happy and will have her on the floor playing with something she hasn't seen in awhile, with Gideon is tucked in my lap. Meribee may crawl up on us now and then, but we generally get a good ten to fifteen minutes of snuggling and reading. Not a lot of time, but it helps.
I make sure to tussle his hair as he runs by during the day, stop and give him a five second hug, thank him for helping me get such and such down from the cabinet, etc. We have a bedtime routine that he instituted and he loves that every night I follow his request to "scratch my back, rub my arms, and run your fingers through my hair."
It's wonderful that yours have a good relationship with each other. My 16 and 13's did when they were little and continue to do so today (most of the time!) and it's a joy to see the richness between them when they're together.
~ Brandynn
sarah
Thanks to Sandra and Brandynn for your replies.
After I wrote my post, I was remembering my son at age 3, and how much he needed me. I actually fell into quite a deep depression at the time, because I didn't know yet how to make time for myself. I just wanted to give him EVERYTHING, and I had a totally empty well for myself. I'm so much better about that stuff now, but remembering how high his need was is helping me normalize.
To Sandra, having them in the same room together is pretty hard. If my son tries to talk to me, my daughter goes "MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY" until I respond. I end up having to just be in another room with her, because it is so annoying. I'm working on talking to her about letting other people talk, letting them finish, etc., but she is 3 and it's too far away yet. But you did remind me of the temporariness of 3, and how quickly it will pass. I barely remember that time with my son, until now.
I do have a mother's helper, and am looking into hiring another one to get some more hours. I guess I was thinking the kids need more "me", but maybe they just need more support from lots of other loving people. It doesn't have to be all me - that's good advice.
To Brandynn, I would be happy to take my son on errands, but he super HATES them, even when treats are involved. But you did remind me that there can be many - smaller - points of contact throughout the day, and I'm trying to focus on that now. Trying to really LISTEN and connect, when he can get a word in around his little sis. That helps.
I'm thinking we need more trips out, more places to go, and more things outside of the house. I think they can each have their own unique experiences that way, and I'm still supporting them both.
We visited a friend the other day, and they just bought a new 13' trampoline. GENIUS! That is totally something a 7yo and a 3yo can do together right? So, I will be looking into more of stuff like that. Does anyone have any other ideas?
Sarah
After I wrote my post, I was remembering my son at age 3, and how much he needed me. I actually fell into quite a deep depression at the time, because I didn't know yet how to make time for myself. I just wanted to give him EVERYTHING, and I had a totally empty well for myself. I'm so much better about that stuff now, but remembering how high his need was is helping me normalize.
To Sandra, having them in the same room together is pretty hard. If my son tries to talk to me, my daughter goes "MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY" until I respond. I end up having to just be in another room with her, because it is so annoying. I'm working on talking to her about letting other people talk, letting them finish, etc., but she is 3 and it's too far away yet. But you did remind me of the temporariness of 3, and how quickly it will pass. I barely remember that time with my son, until now.
I do have a mother's helper, and am looking into hiring another one to get some more hours. I guess I was thinking the kids need more "me", but maybe they just need more support from lots of other loving people. It doesn't have to be all me - that's good advice.
To Brandynn, I would be happy to take my son on errands, but he super HATES them, even when treats are involved. But you did remind me that there can be many - smaller - points of contact throughout the day, and I'm trying to focus on that now. Trying to really LISTEN and connect, when he can get a word in around his little sis. That helps.
I'm thinking we need more trips out, more places to go, and more things outside of the house. I think they can each have their own unique experiences that way, and I'm still supporting them both.
We visited a friend the other day, and they just bought a new 13' trampoline. GENIUS! That is totally something a 7yo and a 3yo can do together right? So, I will be looking into more of stuff like that. Does anyone have any other ideas?
Sarah
Meredith
"sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
Does it help if you're holding her, or playing with her while you talk to him? That way she still has your attention, too.
A suggestion which comes up now and then when there's a busy toddler and an older child is to make creative uses of playpens. Your son could work on a project in the playpen, for instance, or even sit in there to play a video game, without having his little sister climb on him or disturb his things. Alternately, you and the toddler could be in the playpen together - so you'd be really close and personal, which might help with talking to the brother.
It might be better to talk with the 7yo about being proactive about meeting his sister's needs - playing with her without her asking in order to get more time to himself later, or letting her have her say (even if she's interrupting) so that he has a better chance of talking without interruption afterwards.
---Meredith
>having them in the same room together is pretty hard. If my son tries to talk to me, my daughter goes "MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY" until I respond.********************
Does it help if you're holding her, or playing with her while you talk to him? That way she still has your attention, too.
A suggestion which comes up now and then when there's a busy toddler and an older child is to make creative uses of playpens. Your son could work on a project in the playpen, for instance, or even sit in there to play a video game, without having his little sister climb on him or disturb his things. Alternately, you and the toddler could be in the playpen together - so you'd be really close and personal, which might help with talking to the brother.
>> I'm working on talking to her about letting other people talk, letting them finish, etc., but she is 3 and it's too far away yet.****************
It might be better to talk with the 7yo about being proactive about meeting his sister's needs - playing with her without her asking in order to get more time to himself later, or letting her have her say (even if she's interrupting) so that he has a better chance of talking without interruption afterwards.
>>That is totally something a 7yo and a 3yo can do together right?Get one with an enclosure and add some balls and soft toys to the mix. You can have a whole lot of fun on a trampoline with a ball or a pile of stuffed animals - and all the excess stuff changes the dynamic so the 7yo isn't tempted to try tricks the little one can't do yet - there just won't be space for any kind of fancy jumping. Toys also bring the level of energy down a little - which is really important for parents who may not have the endurance of young children right away!
---Meredith
Vanessa Orsborn
I have a 2 1/2 and 6 yr old. These are a list of what we can play together- although the length of play might not be that long sometimes.
Balloons
Setting up obstacle courses or challenges
Hide and seek
Tag
Drawing
Play doh
Toy kitchen/shop/restaurant pretend play
My daughter (6) and I can play dolls together with my son who would be the pet digger or have a dinosaur chasing the dolls etc.
Throwing balls threw hoops - I hold a hula hoop at different heights depending on their abilities.
I hope some of that might help.
Vanessa
Sent from my iPhone
Balloons
Setting up obstacle courses or challenges
Hide and seek
Tag
Drawing
Play doh
Toy kitchen/shop/restaurant pretend play
My daughter (6) and I can play dolls together with my son who would be the pet digger or have a dinosaur chasing the dolls etc.
Throwing balls threw hoops - I hold a hula hoop at different heights depending on their abilities.
I hope some of that might help.
Vanessa
Sent from my iPhone
On 9 Mar 2012, at 19:44, "sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
> Thanks to Sandra and Brandynn for your replies.
>
> After I wrote my post, I was remembering my son at age 3, and how much he needed me. I actually fell into quite a deep depression at the time, because I didn't know yet how to make time for myself. I just wanted to give him EVERYTHING, and I had a totally empty well for myself. I'm so much better about that stuff now, but remembering how high his need was is helping me normalize.
>
> To Sandra, having them in the same room together is pretty hard. If my son tries to talk to me, my daughter goes "MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY" until I respond. I end up having to just be in another room with her, because it is so annoying. I'm working on talking to her about letting other people talk, letting them finish, etc., but she is 3 and it's too far away yet. But you did remind me of the temporariness of 3, and how quickly it will pass. I barely remember that time with my son, until now.
>
> I do have a mother's helper, and am looking into hiring another one to get some more hours. I guess I was thinking the kids need more "me", but maybe they just need more support from lots of other loving people. It doesn't have to be all me - that's good advice.
>
> To Brandynn, I would be happy to take my son on errands, but he super HATES them, even when treats are involved. But you did remind me that there can be many - smaller - points of contact throughout the day, and I'm trying to focus on that now. Trying to really LISTEN and connect, when he can get a word in around his little sis. That helps.
>
> I'm thinking we need more trips out, more places to go, and more things outside of the house. I think they can each have their own unique experiences that way, and I'm still supporting them both.
>
> We visited a friend the other day, and they just bought a new 13' trampoline. GENIUS! That is totally something a 7yo and a 3yo can do together right? So, I will be looking into more of stuff like that. Does anyone have any other ideas?
>
> Sarah
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sarah
Love the suggestions about the trampoline, thanks Meredith. I'm also thinking blankets and making it a lovely place to lay and watch the leaves.
I like also the idea of talking to my 7yo about meeting his sister's needs. I have to help him a lot in terms of getting him to respond to her, like saying "what is it?" when she calls his name, etc. Maybe I can also enlist him in helping me invent things we 3 can do together.
S
I like also the idea of talking to my 7yo about meeting his sister's needs. I have to help him a lot in terms of getting him to respond to her, like saying "what is it?" when she calls his name, etc. Maybe I can also enlist him in helping me invent things we 3 can do together.
S
>
> >> I'm working on talking to her about letting other people talk, letting them finish, etc., but she is 3 and it's too far away yet.
> ****************
>
> It might be better to talk with the 7yo about being proactive about meeting his sister's needs - playing with her without her asking in order to get more time to himself later, or letting her have her say (even if she's interrupting) so that he has a better chance of talking without interruption afterwards.
>
> >>That is totally something a 7yo and a 3yo can do together right?
>
> Get one with an enclosure and add some balls and soft toys to the mix. You can have a whole lot of fun on a trampoline with a ball or a pile of stuffed animals - and all the excess stuff changes the dynamic so the 7yo isn't tempted to try tricks the little one can't do yet - there just won't be space for any kind of fancy jumping. Toys also bring the level of energy down a little - which is really important for parents who may not have the endurance of young children right away!
>
> ---Meredith
>
sarah
Thanks Vanessa, that does help. Balloons are good, especially if they are filled with water. We fill the big balloons up for a bigger sploosh.
They will occasionally do play doh together as well.
Thanks for your suggestions and list!
S
They will occasionally do play doh together as well.
Thanks for your suggestions and list!
S
--- In [email protected], Vanessa Orsborn <orangeness1@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 2 1/2 and 6 yr old. These are a list of what we can play together- although the length of play might not be that long sometimes.
>
> Balloons
> Setting up obstacle courses or challenges
> Hide and seek
> Tag
> Drawing
> Play doh
> Toy kitchen/shop/restaurant pretend play
> My daughter (6) and I can play dolls together with my son who would be the pet digger or have a dinosaur chasing the dolls etc.
> Throwing balls threw hoops - I hold a hula hoop at different heights depending on their abilities.
>
Vanessa Orsborn
Making dens/camps is another :-)
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
On 13 Mar 2012, at 05:02, "sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
> Love the suggestions about the trampoline, thanks Meredith. I'm also thinking blankets and making it a lovely place to lay and watch the leaves.
...
Bun
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
With many people in our household, there have been times when everyone tried to speak to me at once and I explained that I could not hear anyone with everyone talking at the same time. I'd say something like, "If no one has an emergency (no one was getting hurt or would be hurt if I didn't hear them first), let's try to let Kanoa (youngest) say what he needs to say and then let Katie (who was talking first) finish what she was saying. Then Li and Makana, I will listen to you. I do want to hear what you have to say too." (and usually I make physical contact by hugging one of them close or touching their head or something while they are waiting...because it is hard to wait and I think that contact helps sometimes.)
Laurie
> It might be better to talk with the 7yo about being proactive about >meeting his sister's needs - (snip) letting her have her say (even if >she's interrupting) so that he has a better chance of talking without >interruption afterwards.My kids are 14, 10, 6 and 3 and like what Meredith wrote above, we encouraged our kids to let their younger sibling(s) say what they needed to when they were little. Often young children do not have the awareness or ability to wait. Sometimes even adults interrupt. It was easier and faster for us to get back to our conversations if we let the person who had to speak go ahead and say or ask what they needed to. My ten year old especially has so much patience in letting little children speak even if he is in the middle of a conversation. Patience can develop over time, and it can be helpful if it is modeled (although I think personality plays a part too).
With many people in our household, there have been times when everyone tried to speak to me at once and I explained that I could not hear anyone with everyone talking at the same time. I'd say something like, "If no one has an emergency (no one was getting hurt or would be hurt if I didn't hear them first), let's try to let Kanoa (youngest) say what he needs to say and then let Katie (who was talking first) finish what she was saying. Then Li and Makana, I will listen to you. I do want to hear what you have to say too." (and usually I make physical contact by hugging one of them close or touching their head or something while they are waiting...because it is hard to wait and I think that contact helps sometimes.)
Laurie
Bun
--- In [email protected], Vanessa Orsborn <orangeness1@...> wrote:
One thing my three yr old son Kanoa and six year old sister Makana are doing right now is playing Kirby's Epic Yarn together. Kanoa LOVES either playing it with someone (to the best of his ability) or watching Makana and someone else play it. Laurie
>We just picked up two free refrigerator boxes at a local store yesterday and making forts and tunnels was something my 10, 6 and 3 yr old did all together for a while. Cardboard boxes can be used for so many things.
> Making dens/camps is another :-)
One thing my three yr old son Kanoa and six year old sister Makana are doing right now is playing Kirby's Epic Yarn together. Kanoa LOVES either playing it with someone (to the best of his ability) or watching Makana and someone else play it. Laurie