Children addressing adults by their first names instead of their titles
Kristin Ames
I wanted to know how others would deal with this
My 3 yr old son mostly calls my husband & me by our first names.
I found it disconcerting at first, after 6 months or so of hearing Mommy &
Daddy & discovering, to my surprise, that I was really attached to my
title....but in the end neither of us cares either way & haven't asked him
to call us by our titles.
When it became apparent that he was going to keep it up, I did tell him
that I liked being called mommy & he calls me that in moments of cuddles &
tenderness, which I appreciate. On occasion an injury or altercation will
illicit a "Mommy" too, but not often.
It's mostly first names for us both.
We get some funny looks & snickers from some parents at the neighborhood
playground, who insist their kids "treat them with respect" and use titles,
as it was put to me once, and that kind of sealed the deal for me...I don't
want to MAKE my kid respect me, I want to earn it from him the same as I
would from anyone else.....if I deserve it. & I've said so to them...kind
of a conversation stopper, but I didn't want anyone making him feel bad
about it either.
We began hanging out with a group of homeschooler kids & families a couple
times a week last spring & they haven't even noticed or mentioned it.
The grandparents haven't responded that way tho, to my surprise, as most of
them have asked for specific Grandparent name requests for
themselves...They've noticed it & been amused by it, but no pressure to
change it like from our local community.
My husband & I address each other by our names but will use titles when
talking about the other parent to Eli. We never talked about this it just
happened. On occasion I've called my husband "dad" when all 3 are together
& I get all confused & feel awkward & correct myself & address him by his
name....funny
It's hard getting used to being a parent in many ways...this is just one of
them for me.
My husband's parents have always addressed & called themselves Mom & Dad
instead of using their names & for some reason I always found that to be
uncomfortable to hear......
I remember when I was a kid, about 6yrs, my dad asked me to call him by his
first name & I got really upset, saying I only had one daddy & he was it,
etc.....(my folks divorced when I was little)
Naming is so personal. I feel like you have to trust your own feelings
about it & try not to listen to the snarky voices if they don't sit right
with you.
Kristin (&Eli 3)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My 3 yr old son mostly calls my husband & me by our first names.
I found it disconcerting at first, after 6 months or so of hearing Mommy &
Daddy & discovering, to my surprise, that I was really attached to my
title....but in the end neither of us cares either way & haven't asked him
to call us by our titles.
When it became apparent that he was going to keep it up, I did tell him
that I liked being called mommy & he calls me that in moments of cuddles &
tenderness, which I appreciate. On occasion an injury or altercation will
illicit a "Mommy" too, but not often.
It's mostly first names for us both.
We get some funny looks & snickers from some parents at the neighborhood
playground, who insist their kids "treat them with respect" and use titles,
as it was put to me once, and that kind of sealed the deal for me...I don't
want to MAKE my kid respect me, I want to earn it from him the same as I
would from anyone else.....if I deserve it. & I've said so to them...kind
of a conversation stopper, but I didn't want anyone making him feel bad
about it either.
We began hanging out with a group of homeschooler kids & families a couple
times a week last spring & they haven't even noticed or mentioned it.
The grandparents haven't responded that way tho, to my surprise, as most of
them have asked for specific Grandparent name requests for
themselves...They've noticed it & been amused by it, but no pressure to
change it like from our local community.
My husband & I address each other by our names but will use titles when
talking about the other parent to Eli. We never talked about this it just
happened. On occasion I've called my husband "dad" when all 3 are together
& I get all confused & feel awkward & correct myself & address him by his
name....funny
It's hard getting used to being a parent in many ways...this is just one of
them for me.
My husband's parents have always addressed & called themselves Mom & Dad
instead of using their names & for some reason I always found that to be
uncomfortable to hear......
I remember when I was a kid, about 6yrs, my dad asked me to call him by his
first name & I got really upset, saying I only had one daddy & he was it,
etc.....(my folks divorced when I was little)
Naming is so personal. I feel like you have to trust your own feelings
about it & try not to listen to the snarky voices if they don't sit right
with you.
Kristin (&Eli 3)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kristi_beguin
A close friend of mine has three sons, and her youngest called her by her first name, Carol. As he got older he would use Mom sometimes and Carol. She once told me that her youngest used "Carol" because it was specific to her, not a generic word that most people used. He knew if he called out "Carol!" at a busy park, she would be the one to respond, not ten other Moms. He's now a grown and has his own children and he calls her "Mom."
crow467
my son is 15 and has called my husband and i by our first names for the longest time! i think its so funny when someone comments on it, i just laugh and say we are a hippie family LOL (hardly, not that i'd mind)...there is one woman who is friends with my mom, she gets SO UPSET that kevin calls me meg. i really have to keep her in check because she'll say something like "I will give you a SPANKING if you dont start calling your mother mom!" i mean who does she think she is? sheesh (and no she wouldnt actually spank him)...i make sure to tell kevin it is fine that he call me meg. and i tell him that right in front of her. anyway, i think it's great and fine for a kid to call his parents by their first names. respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.
ok im done lol
ok im done lol
Vicki Dennis
Our two sons used "Big Mama" and "Little Mama" but not exclusively.
From about age 4 on, both would use our first names except in situations
when they needed to produce a parent. And then, regardless of who had
taken them to a store or park, it was "my mother is right over here" or
"I'll ask my mother". I thought it clever for them to recognize and adjust
depending on what was needed.
They are now 32 and 28 and often use the terms that the grandchildren use
(su-su and vivi) as well as Susan and Vicki. The younger one still
occasionally says Big Mama or Little Mama. The grandchildren (ages 6 and
4) call their parents Mommy and Daddy now but went through stages of using
their first names. We have fond memories of the oldest calling her mother
"Honey" because that is what her Daddy would say. She is just getting to
the point of writing and recently signed a birthday present her Daddy
wrapped for Susan by putting "Matt, Mommy, Mia,Loki"
We liked it!
We are in the South. And throughout the 80s and 90s coached youth soccer.
We were called a mix of "Coach" or our first names (only after we announced
it was ok). Did not want to have a title and our last name and I am old
enough that "Miss Vicki" makes me think of Tiny Tim with his ukelele!
In my own childhood we were trained to use a title when first introduced
and then it was up to the adult to say what we should call them. By the
way , our parents were expected to follow the same
rules...............using "Christian" names was a familiarity that should
not be presumed by child or unrelated adult.
vicki
P.S.: I am old enough to be able to also talk about various class and race
overtones in how children and adults address other children and adults but
don't really think that is all that relevant except for historical
knowledge.
From about age 4 on, both would use our first names except in situations
when they needed to produce a parent. And then, regardless of who had
taken them to a store or park, it was "my mother is right over here" or
"I'll ask my mother". I thought it clever for them to recognize and adjust
depending on what was needed.
They are now 32 and 28 and often use the terms that the grandchildren use
(su-su and vivi) as well as Susan and Vicki. The younger one still
occasionally says Big Mama or Little Mama. The grandchildren (ages 6 and
4) call their parents Mommy and Daddy now but went through stages of using
their first names. We have fond memories of the oldest calling her mother
"Honey" because that is what her Daddy would say. She is just getting to
the point of writing and recently signed a birthday present her Daddy
wrapped for Susan by putting "Matt, Mommy, Mia,Loki"
We liked it!
We are in the South. And throughout the 80s and 90s coached youth soccer.
We were called a mix of "Coach" or our first names (only after we announced
it was ok). Did not want to have a title and our last name and I am old
enough that "Miss Vicki" makes me think of Tiny Tim with his ukelele!
In my own childhood we were trained to use a title when first introduced
and then it was up to the adult to say what we should call them. By the
way , our parents were expected to follow the same
rules...............using "Christian" names was a familiarity that should
not be presumed by child or unrelated adult.
vicki
P.S.: I am old enough to be able to also talk about various class and race
overtones in how children and adults address other children and adults but
don't really think that is all that relevant except for historical
knowledge.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:35 AM, kristi_beguin <foehn_jye@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> A close friend of mine has three sons, and her youngest called her by her
> first name, Carol. As he got older he would use Mom sometimes and Carol.
> She once told me that her youngest used "Carol" because it was specific to
> her, not a generic word that most people used. He knew if he called out
> "Carol!" at a busy park, she would be the one to respond, not ten other
> Moms. He's now a grown and has his own children and he calls her "Mom."
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-, i think it's great and fine for a kid to call his parents by their first names. respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.
ok im done lol-=-
Please be careful with "LOL" here even if you seem to be laughing at yourself. People are spending a lot of time thinking and sharing what they know.
-=-respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.-=-
And it can, in many instances, be a blatant show of disrespect not to use a title.
Schuyler's husband teaches at a medical school in the UK. It's not a system with which I'm familiar, and I was going to be introducing him to some people, and I asked what title he used. He looked at me, and I asked what his students called him. He said "Sir." So I used "Dr. David Waynforth" for one introduction, and "this is Schuyler's husband, David" another couple of times.
If, in that class, one of the students called him "David," or worse yet "Dave" or "Davey," how far would it go for someone to say "respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.
ok im done lol-"
I think they WOULD be done!
-=-there is one woman who is friends with my mom, she gets SO UPSET that kevin calls me meg. i really have to keep her in check because she'll say something like "I will give you a SPANKING if you dont start calling your mother mom!" i mean who does she think she is? sheesh-=-
She's a friend of your mother's.
Does your fifteen year old son need to call you Meg where his grandmother's friend is if he knows it bothers her?
Would he use really bad language in front of her?
I think the threat of a spanking is rude, but I think being dismissive of the idea of respect is equally rude.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ok im done lol-=-
Please be careful with "LOL" here even if you seem to be laughing at yourself. People are spending a lot of time thinking and sharing what they know.
-=-respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.-=-
And it can, in many instances, be a blatant show of disrespect not to use a title.
Schuyler's husband teaches at a medical school in the UK. It's not a system with which I'm familiar, and I was going to be introducing him to some people, and I asked what title he used. He looked at me, and I asked what his students called him. He said "Sir." So I used "Dr. David Waynforth" for one introduction, and "this is Schuyler's husband, David" another couple of times.
If, in that class, one of the students called him "David," or worse yet "Dave" or "Davey," how far would it go for someone to say "respect? i mean, what?? it's a name for goodness sakes.
ok im done lol-"
I think they WOULD be done!
-=-there is one woman who is friends with my mom, she gets SO UPSET that kevin calls me meg. i really have to keep her in check because she'll say something like "I will give you a SPANKING if you dont start calling your mother mom!" i mean who does she think she is? sheesh-=-
She's a friend of your mother's.
Does your fifteen year old son need to call you Meg where his grandmother's friend is if he knows it bothers her?
Would he use really bad language in front of her?
I think the threat of a spanking is rude, but I think being dismissive of the idea of respect is equally rude.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire Darbaud
2012/2/27 Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
call me Claire or Maman. I was a little shocked at first and I thought
"well, I guess it"s my name" and I don't mind really. I actually think it"s
pretty cute.
But some people had some vivid reactions about it. My mom, for one, didn't
like it. Not because of respect, but she says they will meet a lot of other
Claire but I will always be their one and only Mum. I gave it some
thoughts, talked about it with my kids and we decided it was ok that they
call me Claire if they wish.
We totally respect other people's titles and call them as they wish to be
called.
What I don"t get is: why should somebody be offended by the way my kids
call ME? Isn't that a private question between them and me? Like in the
post where a friend of the grand mother gets offended. If the children
respectfully call that person "Mrs Soandso", why should she decide how they
should call their own mother in her presence? Is that how it works? I don't
get it...
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-there is one woman who is friends with my mom, she gets SO UPSET thatInteresting way to look at it. I have been wondering about that. My kids
> kevin calls me meg. i really have to keep her in check because she'll say
> something like "I will give you a SPANKING if you dont start calling your
> mother mom!" i mean who does she think she is? sheesh-=-
>
> She's a friend of your mother's.
>
> Does your fifteen year old son need to call you Meg where his
> grandmother's friend is if he knows it bothers her?
> Would he use really bad language in front of her?
>
call me Claire or Maman. I was a little shocked at first and I thought
"well, I guess it"s my name" and I don't mind really. I actually think it"s
pretty cute.
But some people had some vivid reactions about it. My mom, for one, didn't
like it. Not because of respect, but she says they will meet a lot of other
Claire but I will always be their one and only Mum. I gave it some
thoughts, talked about it with my kids and we decided it was ok that they
call me Claire if they wish.
We totally respect other people's titles and call them as they wish to be
called.
What I don"t get is: why should somebody be offended by the way my kids
call ME? Isn't that a private question between them and me? Like in the
post where a friend of the grand mother gets offended. If the children
respectfully call that person "Mrs Soandso", why should she decide how they
should call their own mother in her presence? Is that how it works? I don't
get it...
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=If the children
respectfully call that person "Mrs Soandso", why should she decide how they
should call their own mother in her presence? Is that how it works? I don't
get it...-=-
Women are the keepers of culture.
If you don't spank your children why should you get to decide whether others spank their children in your presence?
If you don't insult and threaten your children, why should you get to decide whether others do it to their children (or yours) in your home?
It has long been said (in college courses) that humans have no instincts left, but it's not true. Men's instincts have to do with providing shelter and resources. Women's have to do with keeping peace and order. Because people have moved around and intermarried and made extreme changes in cultures out of conscious decision, and we have millions of people around us instead of a small tribe or a village with a clear hierarchy, things go wonky.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
respectfully call that person "Mrs Soandso", why should she decide how they
should call their own mother in her presence? Is that how it works? I don't
get it...-=-
Women are the keepers of culture.
If you don't spank your children why should you get to decide whether others spank their children in your presence?
If you don't insult and threaten your children, why should you get to decide whether others do it to their children (or yours) in your home?
It has long been said (in college courses) that humans have no instincts left, but it's not true. Men's instincts have to do with providing shelter and resources. Women's have to do with keeping peace and order. Because people have moved around and intermarried and made extreme changes in cultures out of conscious decision, and we have millions of people around us instead of a small tribe or a village with a clear hierarchy, things go wonky.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire Darbaud
2012/2/28 Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
back to people outside the family deciding how children should call their
mother. It's not so much the "women are the keepers of the culture" part,
It's your whole post I don't understand (I didn't want to quote the whole
post out of repsct for the posting guidelines).
Would your answer have been different if it was grandpa's male friend that
insisted the kids call their mother using a title rather then her name?
How does that tie to spanking?
I'm not trying to be clever, I'm really curious and I really don't get it.
Can you help me understand your reasoning?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> *** Women are the keepers of culture. ***I'm sorry Sandra, I don't understand what you're saying and how it ties
>
back to people outside the family deciding how children should call their
mother. It's not so much the "women are the keepers of the culture" part,
It's your whole post I don't understand (I didn't want to quote the whole
post out of repsct for the posting guidelines).
Would your answer have been different if it was grandpa's male friend that
insisted the kids call their mother using a title rather then her name?
How does that tie to spanking?
I'm not trying to be clever, I'm really curious and I really don't get it.
Can you help me understand your reasoning?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 29, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Claire Darbaud wrote:
Understanding why someone's acting as they do can make it easier to respect their needs and wishes even if you don't agree with them.
So it's not whether they're right or wrong in their actions, or whether they get to decide how others should act, it's about respecting their feelings and making them more comfortable when you're with them. And if their rules about how people should treat each other are more than you can bear, then spend as little time as possible with them!
Those who don't see the world through "controlling" glasses, see rules of conduct as about the comfort of the group. And they can be more generous with their behavior and adapt to the group rather than making it about themselves.
As people are saying, What's the big deal about what people call each other? Is it that difficult to adjust what you call each other for that short period of time to make someone more comfortable? Is it too difficult to coach a child on what makes someone feel comfortable? If what the other person needs to feel comfortable is more than you or your child feel comfortable giving then don't visit. You'll both be happier since you won't be upsetting them with your behavior and you won't have to do uncomfortable things ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> *** Women are the keepers of culture. ***She was explaining where that desire to define right and wrong behavior comes from. It's inherent in women's chemistry. It's not strong but if it's nurtured by culture, it can make some women feel like it's a moral imperative to be the guardians of how people act toward each other. So it's unlikely a grandfather would even care what people call each other ;-)
>
> I'm sorry Sandra, I don't understand what you're saying and how it ties
> back to people outside the family deciding how children should call their
> mother.
Understanding why someone's acting as they do can make it easier to respect their needs and wishes even if you don't agree with them.
So it's not whether they're right or wrong in their actions, or whether they get to decide how others should act, it's about respecting their feelings and making them more comfortable when you're with them. And if their rules about how people should treat each other are more than you can bear, then spend as little time as possible with them!
> why should she decide how theyThose who have been controlled in their lives can feel like rules of conduct are about them and what they can and can't do.
> should call their own mother in her presence? Is that how it works? I don't
> get it.
Those who don't see the world through "controlling" glasses, see rules of conduct as about the comfort of the group. And they can be more generous with their behavior and adapt to the group rather than making it about themselves.
As people are saying, What's the big deal about what people call each other? Is it that difficult to adjust what you call each other for that short period of time to make someone more comfortable? Is it too difficult to coach a child on what makes someone feel comfortable? If what the other person needs to feel comfortable is more than you or your child feel comfortable giving then don't visit. You'll both be happier since you won't be upsetting them with your behavior and you won't have to do uncomfortable things ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire Darbaud
Thanks Joyce, I get it now. :-)
And it makes sens I think (I need to think about it more though).
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And it makes sens I think (I need to think about it more though).
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> *** Women are the keepers of culture. ***
back to people outside the family deciding how children should call their
mother. It's not so much the "women are the keepers of the culture" part,
It's your whole post I don't understand (I didn't want to quote the whole
post out of repsct for the posting guidelines).-=-
But when you're saying I'm not making sense, it would be courteous to at least quote the part you're talking about. When it makes sense to quote a whole post, then it's good to do it, or else people end up needing to go back and find it, or not knowing what you're talking about.
I liked Joyce's response, but there's more to the passing down of culture by women, anthropologically. Our culture (western Europe and its colonial spawn) moved to an in-print alpha female system largely--etiquette books. But even in smaller situations, women decide how other people should act in social situations, and they (instinctively and naturally) try to pass that on.
-=-Would your answer have been different if it was grandpa's male friend that
insisted the kids call their mother using a title rather then her name?-=-
It wasn't. Hypothetical situations aren't as good to discuss as the real ones. Real-world, it was a woman. I wasn't surprised. I responded to a real-life question. A grandpa's male friend might advise a boy on a handshake or whether to wear a hat inside, or remind him to hold a door open for his grandmother. A smaller, more particular social realm.
--------------------------
-=-How does that tie to spanking?
I'm not trying to be clever, I'm really curious and I really don't get it.
Can you help me understand your reasoning?-=-
--------------------------
When people here become defensive and indignant over a woman advising other women how to act, I want them (the women here) to consider (by themselves, if possible, without coaching in each instance from now on) whether there are instances in which they (the women here) would object to the behavior of another woman with her child.
If someone says "Don't call your mother by her first name," she has reasons, in her head.
If someone here says "Who does she think she is?" we could leave that rhetorical question (actually an idiomatic insult), or we (I, specifically in this case) could answer the question, for the benefit of the person who was asking it.
She is who she is. She has a relationship to the other people (close or distant) or the offending (to her) behavior took place in her house or sphere or her presence.
If I say to someone "Don't talk to your child that way," they can easily say "Who does she think she is?"
If I were to say to someone (as I did one day when a man threatened to spank his daughter at my house at an unschooling gathering), "Not in my house you won't," then "Who does she think she is?" is "The owner of the house."
If there is NOTHING in the whole world that you (Claire) would object to in another adult/child interaction, then that's one thing. If there *IS* anything (like spanking, or aggressive insult in public, or reports of sexual abuse, or whatever in the world it might be) that you would object to, then I wanted you to feel that, to imagine that, to try to understand why a woman would express an opinion to another woman or child on behalf of peace and safety, respect and decency.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm sorry Sandra, I don't understand what you're saying and how it ties
back to people outside the family deciding how children should call their
mother. It's not so much the "women are the keepers of the culture" part,
It's your whole post I don't understand (I didn't want to quote the whole
post out of repsct for the posting guidelines).-=-
But when you're saying I'm not making sense, it would be courteous to at least quote the part you're talking about. When it makes sense to quote a whole post, then it's good to do it, or else people end up needing to go back and find it, or not knowing what you're talking about.
I liked Joyce's response, but there's more to the passing down of culture by women, anthropologically. Our culture (western Europe and its colonial spawn) moved to an in-print alpha female system largely--etiquette books. But even in smaller situations, women decide how other people should act in social situations, and they (instinctively and naturally) try to pass that on.
-=-Would your answer have been different if it was grandpa's male friend that
insisted the kids call their mother using a title rather then her name?-=-
It wasn't. Hypothetical situations aren't as good to discuss as the real ones. Real-world, it was a woman. I wasn't surprised. I responded to a real-life question. A grandpa's male friend might advise a boy on a handshake or whether to wear a hat inside, or remind him to hold a door open for his grandmother. A smaller, more particular social realm.
--------------------------
-=-How does that tie to spanking?
I'm not trying to be clever, I'm really curious and I really don't get it.
Can you help me understand your reasoning?-=-
--------------------------
When people here become defensive and indignant over a woman advising other women how to act, I want them (the women here) to consider (by themselves, if possible, without coaching in each instance from now on) whether there are instances in which they (the women here) would object to the behavior of another woman with her child.
If someone says "Don't call your mother by her first name," she has reasons, in her head.
If someone here says "Who does she think she is?" we could leave that rhetorical question (actually an idiomatic insult), or we (I, specifically in this case) could answer the question, for the benefit of the person who was asking it.
She is who she is. She has a relationship to the other people (close or distant) or the offending (to her) behavior took place in her house or sphere or her presence.
If I say to someone "Don't talk to your child that way," they can easily say "Who does she think she is?"
If I were to say to someone (as I did one day when a man threatened to spank his daughter at my house at an unschooling gathering), "Not in my house you won't," then "Who does she think she is?" is "The owner of the house."
If there is NOTHING in the whole world that you (Claire) would object to in another adult/child interaction, then that's one thing. If there *IS* anything (like spanking, or aggressive insult in public, or reports of sexual abuse, or whatever in the world it might be) that you would object to, then I wanted you to feel that, to imagine that, to try to understand why a woman would express an opinion to another woman or child on behalf of peace and safety, respect and decency.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]