question about homeschool vs unschool groups
whisperingwindsacademy
This question is really directed at Sandra, but as always I want to hear others thoughts and opinions.
Sandra, somewhere in your writings, I remember reading something about you organizing or heading up play groups or park days or something like that.
My questions is, did you just meet/hang out with other unschoolers, or homeschoolers and unschoolers?
Ever since learning of unschooling even more so radical unschooling, I have these phrases my mom use to say to me as a child that keep popping in my head.
"Birds of a feather flock together" or "you are what your friends are"
While I do not completely agree with those statements, there is some truth to them.
I have participated in a few homeschool activities in my area, which is a very religious area, and most families seem to be very curriculum driven and strict schedules and such. I am not sure, it just doesn't feel right.
Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?
Stacey
Sandra, somewhere in your writings, I remember reading something about you organizing or heading up play groups or park days or something like that.
My questions is, did you just meet/hang out with other unschoolers, or homeschoolers and unschoolers?
Ever since learning of unschooling even more so radical unschooling, I have these phrases my mom use to say to me as a child that keep popping in my head.
"Birds of a feather flock together" or "you are what your friends are"
While I do not completely agree with those statements, there is some truth to them.
I have participated in a few homeschool activities in my area, which is a very religious area, and most families seem to be very curriculum driven and strict schedules and such. I am not sure, it just doesn't feel right.
Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?
Stacey
Sandra Dodd
-=-My questions is, did you just meet/hang out with other unschoolers, or homeschoolers and unschoolers?-=-
It was before webpages and e-mail, so we had a paper "advertisement"/flyer we could leave places and stick up in places, and pass out to people who came. It was called "The Goof Group" (a signal that it was not a co-op, or a science group, or a homeschool group). And it said the organizers were unschoolers and others were welcome, but curricula and lessons were not to be discussed. So we had some regular homeschoolers who kept quiet about it, and that was fine. :-)
-=-I have participated in a few homeschool activities in my area, which is a very religious area, and most families seem to be very curriculum driven and strict schedules and such. I am not sure, it just doesn't feel right.
-=-Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?-=-
If you can, it's good to be with compatible people. If the best you can do is to associate with other types, just coach your kids to act the way the other group wants kids to act, if they can, when it's most important, and then maybe have some decompression time afterwards.
We went on a field trip with a preschool moms' group once, to Pizza Hut. Part of the cost of the field trip was each child got a whole little pizza and a soda. Several of the other moms jumped up like soda was hydrocloric acid, when it was delivered, or went to head the waiters off, and gave their kids water. I didn't, so I got the glares, and the cold shoulders, and we didn't go to so many of those field trips. Another day there were stairs, and a long concrete ramp. Some moms told their children to USE THE STAIRS and stay off the ramp; stand here, stand still. There are other stories, but too sad for the little four year olds I remember.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It was before webpages and e-mail, so we had a paper "advertisement"/flyer we could leave places and stick up in places, and pass out to people who came. It was called "The Goof Group" (a signal that it was not a co-op, or a science group, or a homeschool group). And it said the organizers were unschoolers and others were welcome, but curricula and lessons were not to be discussed. So we had some regular homeschoolers who kept quiet about it, and that was fine. :-)
-=-I have participated in a few homeschool activities in my area, which is a very religious area, and most families seem to be very curriculum driven and strict schedules and such. I am not sure, it just doesn't feel right.
-=-Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?-=-
If you can, it's good to be with compatible people. If the best you can do is to associate with other types, just coach your kids to act the way the other group wants kids to act, if they can, when it's most important, and then maybe have some decompression time afterwards.
We went on a field trip with a preschool moms' group once, to Pizza Hut. Part of the cost of the field trip was each child got a whole little pizza and a soda. Several of the other moms jumped up like soda was hydrocloric acid, when it was delivered, or went to head the waiters off, and gave their kids water. I didn't, so I got the glares, and the cold shoulders, and we didn't go to so many of those field trips. Another day there were stairs, and a long concrete ramp. Some moms told their children to USE THE STAIRS and stay off the ramp; stand here, stand still. There are other stories, but too sad for the little four year olds I remember.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina
***Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?***
Thanks for bringing this topic up. We struggle with this as well and Sandra's response has been helpful. Looking forward to what others have to say as well. Although this has been our fourth year homeschooling, (now transitioning to unschooling), this has been our first year with access to a homeschool group. We live in a fairly small town and the groups are all religious. It's been challenging. I only know of one unschooling mom, but she is pretty busy. We can and do interact with anyone, but would really enjoy spending some time with people who are on the deschooling/unschooling journey.
Christina.
Thanks for bringing this topic up. We struggle with this as well and Sandra's response has been helpful. Looking forward to what others have to say as well. Although this has been our fourth year homeschooling, (now transitioning to unschooling), this has been our first year with access to a homeschool group. We live in a fairly small town and the groups are all religious. It's been challenging. I only know of one unschooling mom, but she is pretty busy. We can and do interact with anyone, but would really enjoy spending some time with people who are on the deschooling/unschooling journey.
Christina.
Claire
>>>>>>>>>>Several of the other moms jumped up like soda was hydrocloric acid, when it was delivered, or went to head the waiters off, and gave their kids water. I didn't, so I got the glares, and the cold shoulders, and we didn't go to so many of those field trips.>>>>>>>>>>Unfortunately this can happen in unschooling groups too :(
Always-Learning-style unschoolers are hard to find! I hang out pretty much exclusively with unschoolers, but within that group there is a fairly wide range of approaches to things like food, media and even bedtime. But those friendships are important to me and my kids, so I try to focus on all the things we do have in common. When there are differences in our approaches, there is usually a friendly acknowledgement that 'everyone has to make their own choices for their family'. (I sometimes see the fall-out from those choices, but I keep my mouth shut.) I think that as long as the kids are generally playing happily and harmoniously, differences in parental philosophy need not interfere with that. There are also lots of opportunities to see why unschooling (our kind of unschooling ;) works so well.
Claire
Pam Laricchia
<< Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers? >>
We haven't focused much on socializing regularly with other unschoolers. That can definitely be nice, as typically the families are more likely to
share your parenting goals, but life doesn't need to be isolated to this slice of society. There are nice schooled kids as well. Over the years we
have definitely enjoyed going to unschooling conferences and my kids have made good friends that way, but gathering around shared interests is also a
great way to meet and hang out locally with others in a wide range of ages (for us, so far it's been karate, girl guides, and the local animal shelter
- the kids are 14, 17, and 19 now). And from these acquaintances, friendships can grow as the kids find additional common ground.
The motivation wasn't mentioned, but it's worth it to take a moment and ask yourself if your kids are interested in pursuing those outside
relationships, or whether it's a parent thinking that it's necessary. If as a parent you're asking them to participate in things they aren't
interested in doing, chances are they won't be learning what you hope. If they don't want to be there, maybe they're thinking about what they wish
they were doing instead, not about connecting with those around them.
And it's a vicious circle: a parent takes their children out places because they want them to make friends; the kids wish they weren't there so they
think of other things to pass the time, not participating fully and/or connecting with others there; the parent sees that and thinks they need more
"practice" making friends so they take them out more. Round and round and round with frustration on both sides.
We've had fun by focusing on the things we like to do and gathering with others that like to do them too, regardless of the educational approaches
chosen by the other families involved. It sometimes sparks interesting conversations with the kids about parenting too. Learning, learning, learning. :-)
Pam
http://livingjoyfully.ca
We haven't focused much on socializing regularly with other unschoolers. That can definitely be nice, as typically the families are more likely to
share your parenting goals, but life doesn't need to be isolated to this slice of society. There are nice schooled kids as well. Over the years we
have definitely enjoyed going to unschooling conferences and my kids have made good friends that way, but gathering around shared interests is also a
great way to meet and hang out locally with others in a wide range of ages (for us, so far it's been karate, girl guides, and the local animal shelter
- the kids are 14, 17, and 19 now). And from these acquaintances, friendships can grow as the kids find additional common ground.
The motivation wasn't mentioned, but it's worth it to take a moment and ask yourself if your kids are interested in pursuing those outside
relationships, or whether it's a parent thinking that it's necessary. If as a parent you're asking them to participate in things they aren't
interested in doing, chances are they won't be learning what you hope. If they don't want to be there, maybe they're thinking about what they wish
they were doing instead, not about connecting with those around them.
And it's a vicious circle: a parent takes their children out places because they want them to make friends; the kids wish they weren't there so they
think of other things to pass the time, not participating fully and/or connecting with others there; the parent sees that and thinks they need more
"practice" making friends so they take them out more. Round and round and round with frustration on both sides.
We've had fun by focusing on the things we like to do and gathering with others that like to do them too, regardless of the educational approaches
chosen by the other families involved. It sometimes sparks interesting conversations with the kids about parenting too. Learning, learning, learning. :-)
Pam
http://livingjoyfully.ca
sheeboo2
-----The motivation wasn't mentioned, but it's worth it to take a moment and ask
yourself if your kids are interested in pursuing those outside relationships, or whether it's a parent thinking that it's necessary.-----
Gosh, this is so very important to think about! When our daughter was younger, around 4, I thought being a good mom meant finding all kinds of exciting social activities for my only child. Ha! If she had been a lonely child, that would have been fine and maybe welcomed. But she was actually very happy to spend her time with her family and family friends. Her favorite outings were into the woods with me or Michael. Playgrounds were stressful during busy times because they were so noisy and other kids were unpredictable; story times were frustrating because Noor liked to be read to in her own very non-linear way; and the few dance classes she went to were an exercise in standing in line and waiting your turn to do fun things to music :(
There are very few radical unschoolers where we live, and while Noor's best friends now are other homeschooled kids, we're the only ones who radically unschool. The co-ops we've gone to were way too academically focused. The larger playdates were more about moms getting a chance to socialize, I think, than experiences where deep friendships flourished between kids.
The food thing can be really annoying in larger groups, as can the way other moms bitch about their kids. Probably even more frustrating is the way moms either ignore or try to control the kids. I've found that for us, we've done much better fostering close relationships with a few families rather than being active in groups.
And, if your kids are old enough to enjoy Skype, that's another really wonderful way for unschooled kids to connect, play games together, draw, role play......
Brie
yourself if your kids are interested in pursuing those outside relationships, or whether it's a parent thinking that it's necessary.-----
Gosh, this is so very important to think about! When our daughter was younger, around 4, I thought being a good mom meant finding all kinds of exciting social activities for my only child. Ha! If she had been a lonely child, that would have been fine and maybe welcomed. But she was actually very happy to spend her time with her family and family friends. Her favorite outings were into the woods with me or Michael. Playgrounds were stressful during busy times because they were so noisy and other kids were unpredictable; story times were frustrating because Noor liked to be read to in her own very non-linear way; and the few dance classes she went to were an exercise in standing in line and waiting your turn to do fun things to music :(
There are very few radical unschoolers where we live, and while Noor's best friends now are other homeschooled kids, we're the only ones who radically unschool. The co-ops we've gone to were way too academically focused. The larger playdates were more about moms getting a chance to socialize, I think, than experiences where deep friendships flourished between kids.
The food thing can be really annoying in larger groups, as can the way other moms bitch about their kids. Probably even more frustrating is the way moms either ignore or try to control the kids. I've found that for us, we've done much better fostering close relationships with a few families rather than being active in groups.
And, if your kids are old enough to enjoy Skype, that's another really wonderful way for unschooled kids to connect, play games together, draw, role play......
Brie
Jo Isaac
==did you just meet/hang out with other unschoolers, or homeschoolers and unschoolers?==
Since we discovered unschooling, we've lived in a few different places. In the first (in the US!), we were lucky enough to have a large group of mostly radical unschoolers, and mostly everyone was on the same page.
We then moved back to Australia and it has been more difficult...the first place we lived we joined a group and many of them described themselves as unschoolers, but compared to our American friends, they didn't look like unschoolers to me! But my son still enjoyed playing with their kids and mostly our differences weren't an issue - and basically there was no-one else around! I have an only child who does enjoying going out with friends most days.
We moved again (different state in Australia), and where we live now there are only 3 or 4 of us I would describe as radical unschoolers, but there is a large homeschool population. We mostly hang out with our radical unschooling friends, to avoid clashing with others over issues including food, screens and toys (guns mostly in our case - my son does love his guns!), but we also participate in some of the organized homeschool activities and my son enjoys it.
Ny son just likes playing with other kids - he doesn't care if they are radical unschoolers or homeschoolers, or even if they go to school - so it's up to me to get over myself and just hang out with everyone!
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since we discovered unschooling, we've lived in a few different places. In the first (in the US!), we were lucky enough to have a large group of mostly radical unschoolers, and mostly everyone was on the same page.
We then moved back to Australia and it has been more difficult...the first place we lived we joined a group and many of them described themselves as unschoolers, but compared to our American friends, they didn't look like unschoolers to me! But my son still enjoyed playing with their kids and mostly our differences weren't an issue - and basically there was no-one else around! I have an only child who does enjoying going out with friends most days.
We moved again (different state in Australia), and where we live now there are only 3 or 4 of us I would describe as radical unschoolers, but there is a large homeschool population. We mostly hang out with our radical unschooling friends, to avoid clashing with others over issues including food, screens and toys (guns mostly in our case - my son does love his guns!), but we also participate in some of the organized homeschool activities and my son enjoys it.
Ny son just likes playing with other kids - he doesn't care if they are radical unschoolers or homeschoolers, or even if they go to school - so it's up to me to get over myself and just hang out with everyone!
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
******
Thanks for bringing this topic up. We struggle with this as well and
Sandra's response has been helpful. Looking forward to what others have to
say as well. Although this has been our fourth year homeschooling, (now
transitioning to unschooling), this has been our first year with access to
a homeschool group. We live in a fairly small town and the groups are all
religious. It's been challenging. I only know of one unschooling mom, but
she is pretty busy. We can and do interact with anyone, but would really
enjoy spending some time with people who are on the deschooling/unschooling
journey.
Christina.********
It is funny that this came up today. I just got back from our "Unschoolers
and Others" park day. This is a group headed up by an unschooler, but
everyone is welcome. Several of the families are "eclectic" and some
follow some kind of curriculum for all subjects, but all of the families
are good at allowing the children to play as they want and only getting
involved when asked to do so by the children. For instance, none of the
parents went spastic when most of the kids were playing volley ball
barefooted (in Maryland in February). The kids range in age from 4 to 16
and they usually play all together and organize things amongst themselves.
We had several new families come today, which was great. Two of the moms
that came with their children seemed very curriculum based, very new to
homeschooling and seemed to be looking for some support. Both of these new
moms related that they had been desperately looking for a group in the area
that they felt would be "comfortable" (code for not fundamentally
religious, homeschooling for God folks). Neither had met any other
homeschooling families that weren't in some religious group, and then they
found that we secular homeschoolers actually outnumber (looking at the
numbers of the various groups) the religious ones. My point being that you
are probably not the only unschooling or relaxed or at least relaxed enough
homeschooler desperate to meet someone who is also not strict about things
in general. Maybe you could try starting an email group with the intent of
having weekly park days or game days or play dates.
The worse that could happen is that you get no response.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for bringing this topic up. We struggle with this as well and
Sandra's response has been helpful. Looking forward to what others have to
say as well. Although this has been our fourth year homeschooling, (now
transitioning to unschooling), this has been our first year with access to
a homeschool group. We live in a fairly small town and the groups are all
religious. It's been challenging. I only know of one unschooling mom, but
she is pretty busy. We can and do interact with anyone, but would really
enjoy spending some time with people who are on the deschooling/unschooling
journey.
Christina.********
It is funny that this came up today. I just got back from our "Unschoolers
and Others" park day. This is a group headed up by an unschooler, but
everyone is welcome. Several of the families are "eclectic" and some
follow some kind of curriculum for all subjects, but all of the families
are good at allowing the children to play as they want and only getting
involved when asked to do so by the children. For instance, none of the
parents went spastic when most of the kids were playing volley ball
barefooted (in Maryland in February). The kids range in age from 4 to 16
and they usually play all together and organize things amongst themselves.
We had several new families come today, which was great. Two of the moms
that came with their children seemed very curriculum based, very new to
homeschooling and seemed to be looking for some support. Both of these new
moms related that they had been desperately looking for a group in the area
that they felt would be "comfortable" (code for not fundamentally
religious, homeschooling for God folks). Neither had met any other
homeschooling families that weren't in some religious group, and then they
found that we secular homeschoolers actually outnumber (looking at the
numbers of the various groups) the religious ones. My point being that you
are probably not the only unschooling or relaxed or at least relaxed enough
homeschooler desperate to meet someone who is also not strict about things
in general. Maybe you could try starting an email group with the intent of
having weekly park days or game days or play dates.
The worse that could happen is that you get no response.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zurro
When Caitlyn was younger I sought out like minded families for my own socialization needs, support, and the opportunity to be around experienced unschoolers. When we moved to where we currently live there were several unschooling groups in the county, all on Yahoo, which I pulled together in a central Facebook group. That group has grown to more than 50 families.
The unschoolers in our group range from more eclectic/relaxed homeschoolers moving towards unschooling to a few of us who are radical unschoolers. We do a weekly park day with the group as well as outings that various people set up.
Although we still attend some activities lately Caitlyn has been less interested in park days and scheduled activities and more in favor of staying home or doing smaller get-togethers. I'm not the only one who is also experiencing this. Sometimes a park day has several families that plan to attend and by the time the day arrives, kids have decided they want to do something else like staying home. So, while it's nice to have local unschooling families for support and connection, I've come to realize it's not the necessity I once believed it was. I'm sure as Caitlyn gets older, we will find connections based more on shared interests than simply because other families are unschoolers.
Also, the Internet is a huge part of our unschooling connection. And as I said above, even our local group is very active online. I think I'd feel more isolated as an unschooler if you took away my Internet...
Laura Z
The unschoolers in our group range from more eclectic/relaxed homeschoolers moving towards unschooling to a few of us who are radical unschoolers. We do a weekly park day with the group as well as outings that various people set up.
Although we still attend some activities lately Caitlyn has been less interested in park days and scheduled activities and more in favor of staying home or doing smaller get-togethers. I'm not the only one who is also experiencing this. Sometimes a park day has several families that plan to attend and by the time the day arrives, kids have decided they want to do something else like staying home. So, while it's nice to have local unschooling families for support and connection, I've come to realize it's not the necessity I once believed it was. I'm sure as Caitlyn gets older, we will find connections based more on shared interests than simply because other families are unschoolers.
Also, the Internet is a huge part of our unschooling connection. And as I said above, even our local group is very active online. I think I'd feel more isolated as an unschooler if you took away my Internet...
Laura Z
Rippy and Graham Dusseldorp
-----Do you find issues or problems doing things with other homeschoolers? Is it best to just try to associate with other unschoolers?-----
I'm part of a homeschooling group that has both unschooling and homeschooling families. We haven't had any serious issues in the 18 months since I created the group. The meetings are really relaxed and informal, but there is a very formal charter that states what the group is about and how to participate within the group. Any time there have been issues, I've been able to point to the charter and the family has either adapted or left the group.
I'm friendly with everyone in the group, but we tend to have more one-on-one visits with the families that live without media and food restrictions. It's been really wonderful for me to be in the company of parents who are completely relaxed and calm about media and food, especially since I wasn't calm about it and the neither were most families that I knew. I notice (to my disappointment) that when I'm around friends that are negative about media and sugar, I *still* tend to get unsettled, even though I've been unschooling since 2009. I've gotten drastically more comfortable and confident about it since then, but I'm still not solid. Being around people who are so easy about it, helps me be easier about it too.
Rippy
(Gianluca 7, Gisele 5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm part of a homeschooling group that has both unschooling and homeschooling families. We haven't had any serious issues in the 18 months since I created the group. The meetings are really relaxed and informal, but there is a very formal charter that states what the group is about and how to participate within the group. Any time there have been issues, I've been able to point to the charter and the family has either adapted or left the group.
I'm friendly with everyone in the group, but we tend to have more one-on-one visits with the families that live without media and food restrictions. It's been really wonderful for me to be in the company of parents who are completely relaxed and calm about media and food, especially since I wasn't calm about it and the neither were most families that I knew. I notice (to my disappointment) that when I'm around friends that are negative about media and sugar, I *still* tend to get unsettled, even though I've been unschooling since 2009. I've gotten drastically more comfortable and confident about it since then, but I'm still not solid. Being around people who are so easy about it, helps me be easier about it too.
Rippy
(Gianluca 7, Gisele 5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]