Can someone illustrate a hypothetical unschooling day for me please?
jennwells79
I have a 2, 4, and 6 year old. I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!"). I know it's my own fears and baggage keeping me from trusing the natural learning process. My issue is that I don't feel like we are doing enough during the day and it makes me nervous though I don't know what exactly I'm nervous about. I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children? I have no doubts about the ability of older children, say 10 and older, to discover their world and their interests without constant adult interventions, but I get confused/uncomfortable when it comes to the 5-9 age group. I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
dapsign
I hope to write more about our day here with my sons (5 and 1) later. In the meantime you should read some accounts of typical days here:
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Dina
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Dina
--- In [email protected], "jennwells79" <jennwells79@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 2, 4, and 6 year old. I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!"). I know it's my own fears and baggage keeping me from trusing the natural learning process. My issue is that I don't feel like we are doing enough during the day and it makes me nervous though I don't know what exactly I'm nervous about. I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children? I have no doubts about the ability of older children, say 10 and older, to discover their world and their interests without constant adult interventions, but I get confused/uncomfortable when it comes to the 5-9 age group. I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that?
>
> Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!").-=-
You're going back and forth between things that aren't unschooling.
Neither side is any good.
Why should she be expected to "self-direct" her learning, poor kid? And why should ANYbody be "directing" her learning?
Once you start to see natural learning, you'll see more and more of it. Once you see it, you'll get better at not stepping on it, or crushing the life out of it.
http://sandradodd.com/nest might help
-=-I have no doubts about the ability of older children, say 10 and older, to discover their world and their interests without constant adult interventions, but I get confused/uncomfortable when it comes to the 5-9 age group. -=-
If you stifle her until she's 9, she's less likely to discover the world at 10.
If you look at the way she learned to walk and talk, and to play, you might see how she can learn when she's 5-9.
IS she "in a group"? Or are you looking at a chart instead of looking directly at her?
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-important-is-your-child.html
-=- I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that? -=-
Throwing them out the window? Throwing them out into the middle of the room?
Why not just considering ideas and concepts?
-=-new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home-=-
You want to throw things around in some direction so that your kids are even aware of what does exist outside your home? What about the internet and TV? Those would be some great windows to the world. And then there are the real windows, and then there's getting them out into the world outside your home.
But my concern right now is that you seem resistant to things that would help you be aware of what natural learning looks like. :-) It doesn't look like "directed" learning (not "self-" or "mother-").
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You're going back and forth between things that aren't unschooling.
Neither side is any good.
Why should she be expected to "self-direct" her learning, poor kid? And why should ANYbody be "directing" her learning?
Once you start to see natural learning, you'll see more and more of it. Once you see it, you'll get better at not stepping on it, or crushing the life out of it.
http://sandradodd.com/nest might help
-=-I have no doubts about the ability of older children, say 10 and older, to discover their world and their interests without constant adult interventions, but I get confused/uncomfortable when it comes to the 5-9 age group. -=-
If you stifle her until she's 9, she's less likely to discover the world at 10.
If you look at the way she learned to walk and talk, and to play, you might see how she can learn when she's 5-9.
IS she "in a group"? Or are you looking at a chart instead of looking directly at her?
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-important-is-your-child.html
-=- I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that? -=-
Throwing them out the window? Throwing them out into the middle of the room?
Why not just considering ideas and concepts?
-=-new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home-=-
You want to throw things around in some direction so that your kids are even aware of what does exist outside your home? What about the internet and TV? Those would be some great windows to the world. And then there are the real windows, and then there's getting them out into the world outside your home.
But my concern right now is that you seem resistant to things that would help you be aware of what natural learning looks like. :-) It doesn't look like "directed" learning (not "self-" or "mother-").
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning***
Think for a moment about what "self-directed" learning looks like. It's a loaded phrase because it implies that a child will direct themselves to learn just exactly what the teacher/parent wants them to learn. Which is why you keep stepping in with lesson plans.
What you are missing, is that there is a whole other way of learning and being in the world. Take one thing that your child loves to do. I'm going to use legos as an example. If a kid loves legos and will happily build all day long with legos: 1. You know he's engaged. 2. You know he's thinking. 3. You know he's happy. Those are all key ingredients to learning. Even an ardent teacher would agree.
The next step is seeing WHAT he is learning. That's harder for several reasons. Sometimes kids don't outwardly share what they are learning, it's internal. Sometimes the adult doesn't see what they are doing as learning. Here's an example of how to extrapolate what could potentially be learned from one activity: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design
To get you started, I'll tell you right now that my youngest learned how to multiply by building with legos.
*** I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children?***
This also might help (there is a link at the bottom of that page with other accounts): http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Think for a moment about what "self-directed" learning looks like. It's a loaded phrase because it implies that a child will direct themselves to learn just exactly what the teacher/parent wants them to learn. Which is why you keep stepping in with lesson plans.
What you are missing, is that there is a whole other way of learning and being in the world. Take one thing that your child loves to do. I'm going to use legos as an example. If a kid loves legos and will happily build all day long with legos: 1. You know he's engaged. 2. You know he's thinking. 3. You know he's happy. Those are all key ingredients to learning. Even an ardent teacher would agree.
The next step is seeing WHAT he is learning. That's harder for several reasons. Sometimes kids don't outwardly share what they are learning, it's internal. Sometimes the adult doesn't see what they are doing as learning. Here's an example of how to extrapolate what could potentially be learned from one activity: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design
To get you started, I'll tell you right now that my youngest learned how to multiply by building with legos.
*** I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children?***
This also might help (there is a link at the bottom of that page with other accounts): http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jo Isaac
==I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!").==
I agree with what others have said about the term 'self-directed'. It's a term many new unschoolers cling to or jump on, like 'child-led' - I was guilty of using it also - you need stop thinking in those terms.
== I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children?==
My son is 6 in May, so similarly aged. A typical day looks like us going about the business of life. Watching TV, going shopping, playing Wii and/or Minecraft, drawing, planting seeds in the garden, going to the park with friends, going swimming, doing kitchen experiments, going to the museum or the zoo, playing with lego and play mobil, going to the library, playing board games, playing ipod games, playing domino's, doing jigsaws....I could go on, but you get the picture!
== I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home.==
I don't really understand what you mean by this? How could they not be aware of what is outside your home?
Hope that helps a bit.
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with what others have said about the term 'self-directed'. It's a term many new unschoolers cling to or jump on, like 'child-led' - I was guilty of using it also - you need stop thinking in those terms.
== I would very much appreciate if someone could share what a typical day at home may look like in the world of non-schooling with similarly aged children?==
My son is 6 in May, so similarly aged. A typical day looks like us going about the business of life. Watching TV, going shopping, playing Wii and/or Minecraft, drawing, planting seeds in the garden, going to the park with friends, going swimming, doing kitchen experiments, going to the museum or the zoo, playing with lego and play mobil, going to the library, playing board games, playing ipod games, playing domino's, doing jigsaws....I could go on, but you get the picture!
== I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home.==
I don't really understand what you mean by this? How could they not be aware of what is outside your home?
Hope that helps a bit.
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"jennwells79" <jennwells79@...> wrote:
Rather than thinking about typical days, it might help you to think about learning itself - what it is and how it happens naturally. Here's a good place to start:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
---Meredith
>It will look like playing, getting snacks, helping them find toys and socks and parts of games, helping prevent and resolve interpersonal issues, watching tv, snuggling, talking, and more playing.
> I have a 2, 4, and 6 year old.
> My issue is that I don't feel like we are doing enough during the dayAre the kids bored? It may be that the trouble is you're looking for learning to look like projects and activities, field trips and explanations, rather than kids living their lives. Those things - the projects and trips and whatnot - are a part of living life, but often those are just the highlights. Most learning looks like kids doing perfectly ordinary things in familiar places.
Rather than thinking about typical days, it might help you to think about learning itself - what it is and how it happens naturally. Here's a good place to start:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
---Meredith
jennwells79
>>I don't really understand what you mean by this? How could they not be aware of what is outside your home?I don't really understand what I mean either :) I think these very beginner (based on ignorance and fear) questions are just coming from that little voice from the ingrained, conditioned view of "education" and learning I can't seem to shake. Because as I read my original post, I realize I already know the answers to those questions and I don't really know what it is I am searching for. Maybe I just get nervous during these winter days in a rural area, when it seems we don't do much more than watch movies or play computer games. That little voice in my head tells me we are being lazy and unproductive and the kids arent' learning anything NEW :) I feel like I'm not doing enough to expose them to things, putting new opportunities in their path to see if they are interested.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- Maybe I just get nervous during these winter days in a rural area, when it seems we don't do much more than watch movies or play computer games. That little voice in my head tells me we are being lazy and unproductive and the kids arent' learning anything NEW :) I feel like I'm not doing enough to expose them to things, putting new opportunities in their path to see if they are interested. -=-
Here's a possible exercise, then.
Think of what happens in one day of second grade (or pick some grade)--the quality of the presentations or the worksheets. Compare that to a movie.
Think of what happens at recess, in a school, or what the kids would LIKE to have happened, if they had some free time. Compare that to a video game.
Think of the waiting to go to the awkward school bathroom. Compare that to your bathroom.
Think of the water fountains at a school. Compare that to a glass of water at our house (or juice, or chocolate milk, or keifer, or soda).
Think of the lunch, at school, all the same, all timed, sometimes unwelcome food, often too late after the child is really hungry. Compare that to your food.
Sandra
Here's a possible exercise, then.
Think of what happens in one day of second grade (or pick some grade)--the quality of the presentations or the worksheets. Compare that to a movie.
Think of what happens at recess, in a school, or what the kids would LIKE to have happened, if they had some free time. Compare that to a video game.
Think of the waiting to go to the awkward school bathroom. Compare that to your bathroom.
Think of the water fountains at a school. Compare that to a glass of water at our house (or juice, or chocolate milk, or keifer, or soda).
Think of the lunch, at school, all the same, all timed, sometimes unwelcome food, often too late after the child is really hungry. Compare that to your food.
Sandra
chris ester
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 5:20 PM, jennwells79 <jennwells79@...> wrote:
tried engaging with your child over something that he likes to do? My son
loved to play certain video games and we would sit together and play these
games. Sometimes our whole family would spend time surfing the web,
looking for the answer to whatever questions one of us had come up with.
There really are no stupid questions and now with the internet, you can
look for the answer to any question any time of the day.
process, yourself, your children. Also, you must learn to respect your
children and value them and their desires. So, if your child wants to
learn all about trains, or mold, or mustard, or whatever, if you really
respect her, you support her desires to learn that particular thing and you
don't try to impose what you want her to learn or think that she should
learn. Childhood isn't a race. Just as your children learned how to walk
and talk and eat and a host of other things, they will learn all of the
other stuff that they need to learn to be happy, healthy human beings, in
their own time. No one can force a person to learn anything. You really
can only provide incentives for them to behave in a certain way and that
won't necessarily work.
probably somewhere around 6 weeks. He had been 5 weeks early and low birth
weight, so he was finally getting up to the size of an average newborn. I
was changing him and had to apply some ointment and powder; well, this made
the whole ordeal too slow and he fussed a bit. To express his feelings on
the matter, he kicked his feet up in the air. Well, then he noticed his
own feet. He proceeded to grab one of his feet and pull on it and looked
at it and moved it a bit. He then tried to get it in his mouth and
missed!! He then noticed that he had two of these nifty things and tried
basically the same things with the second foot. I was fascinated to watch
all of this. Here this tiny baby that had had a pretty rough start was
absolutely enthralled with his own two feet!!
That is natural curiosity and exploration at a very early age. Children
are naturally inquisitive. As a matter of fact, parents spend a lot of
time protecting and (unfortunately) thwarting a child's natural desire to
explore. Every time a child tries to get into the cabinet full of
breakable glass wear or knives or household poisons, they are being
naturally inquisitive. Of course, any reasonable parent prevents a child
from harming themselves, but when a child discovers pens or crayons and
wants to draw and proceeds to explore how they work on the wall, how a
parent handles the conflicting needs of the child to explore and the adult
to have crayon free walls will indicate their parenting philosophy.
As an early unschooler, I grabbed the big roll of paper and taped it on the
wall and let my daughter rip. I spent time watching her draw and drawing
with her. Now, on reflection, I might have asked her to only draw in a
specific place and painted it with really scrubbable paint. I would have
still drawn with her and at some point I would have invited my children to
help me scrub the walls (not required them, just invited) so that I wasn't
the only one having the fun. We would have sung songs about scrubbing the
wall (this is the way we scrub the wall...). This might have failed and I
might have ended up with crayon all over the walls of my home, and we would
have had to gotten out the big roll of paper and have a wall scrubbing
party.... But either way, there would not have been a little girl who was
shamed or punished for exploring the world with crayons.
see if your children will come along for the ride and get interested in
things as well. It is up to you to model active learning as a way of
life. Perhaps you mean you are 'strewing', meaning you place things around
to give your children the opportunity to pick up on that thing. I am sure
that there is something in Sandra's vast library, but I am horrible at
finding such things. (Little help)
Go to a park and look at trees and see if you can figure out what kind of
trees they are, even without their leaves. Go to the library and let
everyone check out any book that they want. Help them look up books on the
electronic catalog, if you don't know how to do this, ask the librarian to
show all of you how to use the library. Read those books to your children,
even if they aren't 'educational' or even if they aren't kids' books. My
daughter loved art and biology and so we spent a lot of time looking at
science texts and reading parts of those books. These were high school and
college books, but she checked them out.... My son loved chemistry and the
periodic table. We spent many hours reading the book of the elements....
Are there any local groups that you can join in on field trips? I am lucky
to have a very unschool friendly group that arranges a bunch of field trips
for great discounts to lots of fun stuff. Everything from the National
Aquarium to pottery classes to a tea party to an indoor fun park. Lots of
fun and it is simply amazing how much the kids learn from everything. We
also have a local group that we meet with every week for a park day. Kids
learn by doing, so do things with them.
Chris
> **Instead of switching back and forth between these two options, have you
>
>
> >>>>>I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old,
> to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because
> "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!").<<<<<
>
tried engaging with your child over something that he likes to do? My son
loved to play certain video games and we would sit together and play these
games. Sometimes our whole family would spend time surfing the web,
looking for the answer to whatever questions one of us had come up with.
There really are no stupid questions and now with the internet, you can
look for the answer to any question any time of the day.
> >>>>I know it's my own fears and baggage keeping me from trusing theIn my opinion, the hardest part of unschooling is learning to trust the
> natural learning process.<<<<
>
process, yourself, your children. Also, you must learn to respect your
children and value them and their desires. So, if your child wants to
learn all about trains, or mold, or mustard, or whatever, if you really
respect her, you support her desires to learn that particular thing and you
don't try to impose what you want her to learn or think that she should
learn. Childhood isn't a race. Just as your children learned how to walk
and talk and eat and a host of other things, they will learn all of the
other stuff that they need to learn to be happy, healthy human beings, in
their own time. No one can force a person to learn anything. You really
can only provide incentives for them to behave in a certain way and that
won't necessarily work.
> >>>>>>> I have no doubts about the ability of older children, say 10 andI remember the first time that my son realized that he had a foot. He was
> older, to discover their world and their interests without constant adult
> interventions, but I get confused/uncomfortable when it comes to the 5-9
> age group.<<<<<<<
>
probably somewhere around 6 weeks. He had been 5 weeks early and low birth
weight, so he was finally getting up to the size of an average newborn. I
was changing him and had to apply some ointment and powder; well, this made
the whole ordeal too slow and he fussed a bit. To express his feelings on
the matter, he kicked his feet up in the air. Well, then he noticed his
own feet. He proceeded to grab one of his feet and pull on it and looked
at it and moved it a bit. He then tried to get it in his mouth and
missed!! He then noticed that he had two of these nifty things and tried
basically the same things with the second foot. I was fascinated to watch
all of this. Here this tiny baby that had had a pretty rough start was
absolutely enthralled with his own two feet!!
That is natural curiosity and exploration at a very early age. Children
are naturally inquisitive. As a matter of fact, parents spend a lot of
time protecting and (unfortunately) thwarting a child's natural desire to
explore. Every time a child tries to get into the cabinet full of
breakable glass wear or knives or household poisons, they are being
naturally inquisitive. Of course, any reasonable parent prevents a child
from harming themselves, but when a child discovers pens or crayons and
wants to draw and proceeds to explore how they work on the wall, how a
parent handles the conflicting needs of the child to explore and the adult
to have crayon free walls will indicate their parenting philosophy.
As an early unschooler, I grabbed the big roll of paper and taped it on the
wall and let my daughter rip. I spent time watching her draw and drawing
with her. Now, on reflection, I might have asked her to only draw in a
specific place and painted it with really scrubbable paint. I would have
still drawn with her and at some point I would have invited my children to
help me scrub the walls (not required them, just invited) so that I wasn't
the only one having the fun. We would have sung songs about scrubbing the
wall (this is the way we scrub the wall...). This might have failed and I
might have ended up with crayon all over the walls of my home, and we would
have had to gotten out the big roll of paper and have a wall scrubbing
party.... But either way, there would not have been a little girl who was
shamed or punished for exploring the world with crayons.
> >>>>>>I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas andInstead of "throwing out" ideas and concepts, get interested in things and
> concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist
> outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that? <<<<<
>
see if your children will come along for the ride and get interested in
things as well. It is up to you to model active learning as a way of
life. Perhaps you mean you are 'strewing', meaning you place things around
to give your children the opportunity to pick up on that thing. I am sure
that there is something in Sandra's vast library, but I am horrible at
finding such things. (Little help)
Go to a park and look at trees and see if you can figure out what kind of
trees they are, even without their leaves. Go to the library and let
everyone check out any book that they want. Help them look up books on the
electronic catalog, if you don't know how to do this, ask the librarian to
show all of you how to use the library. Read those books to your children,
even if they aren't 'educational' or even if they aren't kids' books. My
daughter loved art and biology and so we spent a lot of time looking at
science texts and reading parts of those books. These were high school and
college books, but she checked them out.... My son loved chemistry and the
periodic table. We spent many hours reading the book of the elements....
Are there any local groups that you can join in on field trips? I am lucky
to have a very unschool friendly group that arranges a bunch of field trips
for great discounts to lots of fun stuff. Everything from the National
Aquarium to pottery classes to a tea party to an indoor fun park. Lots of
fun and it is simply amazing how much the kids learn from everything. We
also have a local group that we meet with every week for a park day. Kids
learn by doing, so do things with them.
Chris
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> __._,_.__
>
Julie
--- In [email protected], "jennwells79" <jennwells79@...> wrote:
I'll describe our lives today:
Tyler (4) got up first, which is normal for him. He spent some time sneaking peaks at the painters working on our walls downstairs. He was too shy to go close, but was really interested in what they were doing. Audrey (2) got up next and I got them both dressed. James (6) sleeps late because he is on my (night owl) schedule and is a night owl himself. He wakes naturally 95% of the time, but today I woke him up to make lunch and a playdate with another unschooler and her son (Hi Marin!). We got in the car and met Marin for lunch. Afterwards, we went to a park to play on the playgrounds. It was sunny and very warm here and the kids were content for hours. James is typically introverted and has never been in any forced child-corralling situation, so I pay close attention at how he interacts with other kids and I was pleased that he was comfortable and happy to play. I wasn't "looking for learning" at the playground, but upon reflection now in writing,this, its clear that a lot was going on: Social dynamics, cooperation, compromise and problem solving, experiments in physics galore on equipment, tests of personal strength, toughness, and bravery, etc
When we left, the kids were wiped out and hungry and grumpy by time we get home. I made them something to eat when we got back - different things for each kid based on what they asked for. Dad came home and sat down and watched "Up" with them, a movie they have watched 5-6 times in the last week. They love for me to narrate the montage of the old man's life at the beginning since it has no dialogue at that point. After a little playing, food was needed again, so we got,them some more food. After that, everyone got baths and played happily. After the bath, they all wanted their hair dried (a new thing, just this week) and teeth were brushed and I put Audrey to bed. Tyler played with Dad and then they went to bed. I cleaned up downstairs and James was on the iPad.
When I returned upstairs, I tried tomget on Minecraft to check it out from James because it's been mentioned here a lot lately and Marin said her son is enjoying it. The page wouldn't load for some reason, so we downloaded the free Minecraft app onto our iPads and explored how it works, a bit. We discovered,we can play in the same world over wifi. Now, James is watching YouTube videos about Minecraft and I am writing this. Next, I'll read chapter 7 of the fifth Harry Potter book to him and we'll turn out the lights. At that point, he'll ask me everything he's currently wondering about and we'll talk, sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes almost an hour. If we really get going and curious despite the lateness, I'll turn on the iPad and start looking stuff up. In the last few months, that has included Jupiter, frog dissection (there's an app for that, seriously), various geographical curiosities (e.g., I went to Phoenix on a rare business,trip and she wanted to know where that was, and about Korea because I spent the trip,with Koreans). iPad resources to satiate curiosities in the middle of the night in the last month have included use of the Internet and Wikipedia, a free NASA app, frog dissection, google earth, a dictionary app, a free science 360 app and you've to watch some Vi Hart videos.
All in all, a pretty rich and varied life for a 6 year old I think. I think sometimes how that, if he was in school, there'd be no late night talks and middle of the night questioning and looking stuff up. And if I was tempted to teach him "lessons" and make his connections for him, I don't think he'd so readily ask the questions and be so excited when he makes connections on his own. In a teaching environment, he'd be too busy being "taught" to read, doing math drills, and homework to even have the brain space to wonder about much else.
I read a great quote the other day that will stick with me forever. I think it was on one of the unschooling Facebook pages, but maybe not. I just googled it to get it right:
"When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of discovering it for himself." ~ Jean Piaget
Ponder that. It's brutal and condemning and may help shut down the urge to give lessons. Spend the effort you would on lessons and beating yourself up later for giving lessons and questioning whether you should give another lesson on living a rich and varied life. There is no better life and no better education than that, especially when there is peace and confidence at home.
Julie M
>I also have a 2, 4, and 6 year old, but am never remotely tempted to give short lessons ;)
> I have a 2, 4, and 6 year old. I keep switching back from self-directed learning with my 6 year old, to me planning short "lessons", and back to self-directed learning (because "why are you forcing me to do this boring stuff!")..
I'll describe our lives today:
Tyler (4) got up first, which is normal for him. He spent some time sneaking peaks at the painters working on our walls downstairs. He was too shy to go close, but was really interested in what they were doing. Audrey (2) got up next and I got them both dressed. James (6) sleeps late because he is on my (night owl) schedule and is a night owl himself. He wakes naturally 95% of the time, but today I woke him up to make lunch and a playdate with another unschooler and her son (Hi Marin!). We got in the car and met Marin for lunch. Afterwards, we went to a park to play on the playgrounds. It was sunny and very warm here and the kids were content for hours. James is typically introverted and has never been in any forced child-corralling situation, so I pay close attention at how he interacts with other kids and I was pleased that he was comfortable and happy to play. I wasn't "looking for learning" at the playground, but upon reflection now in writing,this, its clear that a lot was going on: Social dynamics, cooperation, compromise and problem solving, experiments in physics galore on equipment, tests of personal strength, toughness, and bravery, etc
When we left, the kids were wiped out and hungry and grumpy by time we get home. I made them something to eat when we got back - different things for each kid based on what they asked for. Dad came home and sat down and watched "Up" with them, a movie they have watched 5-6 times in the last week. They love for me to narrate the montage of the old man's life at the beginning since it has no dialogue at that point. After a little playing, food was needed again, so we got,them some more food. After that, everyone got baths and played happily. After the bath, they all wanted their hair dried (a new thing, just this week) and teeth were brushed and I put Audrey to bed. Tyler played with Dad and then they went to bed. I cleaned up downstairs and James was on the iPad.
When I returned upstairs, I tried tomget on Minecraft to check it out from James because it's been mentioned here a lot lately and Marin said her son is enjoying it. The page wouldn't load for some reason, so we downloaded the free Minecraft app onto our iPads and explored how it works, a bit. We discovered,we can play in the same world over wifi. Now, James is watching YouTube videos about Minecraft and I am writing this. Next, I'll read chapter 7 of the fifth Harry Potter book to him and we'll turn out the lights. At that point, he'll ask me everything he's currently wondering about and we'll talk, sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes almost an hour. If we really get going and curious despite the lateness, I'll turn on the iPad and start looking stuff up. In the last few months, that has included Jupiter, frog dissection (there's an app for that, seriously), various geographical curiosities (e.g., I went to Phoenix on a rare business,trip and she wanted to know where that was, and about Korea because I spent the trip,with Koreans). iPad resources to satiate curiosities in the middle of the night in the last month have included use of the Internet and Wikipedia, a free NASA app, frog dissection, google earth, a dictionary app, a free science 360 app and you've to watch some Vi Hart videos.
All in all, a pretty rich and varied life for a 6 year old I think. I think sometimes how that, if he was in school, there'd be no late night talks and middle of the night questioning and looking stuff up. And if I was tempted to teach him "lessons" and make his connections for him, I don't think he'd so readily ask the questions and be so excited when he makes connections on his own. In a teaching environment, he'd be too busy being "taught" to read, doing math drills, and homework to even have the brain space to wonder about much else.
I read a great quote the other day that will stick with me forever. I think it was on one of the unschooling Facebook pages, but maybe not. I just googled it to get it right:
"When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of discovering it for himself." ~ Jean Piaget
Ponder that. It's brutal and condemning and may help shut down the urge to give lessons. Spend the effort you would on lessons and beating yourself up later for giving lessons and questioning whether you should give another lesson on living a rich and varied life. There is no better life and no better education than that, especially when there is peace and confidence at home.
Julie M
Karen
> As an early unschooler, I grabbed the big roll of paper and taped it on theAnd some paint or drawings on the wall by a child can be a world opening up to good things:
> wall and let my daughter rip. I spent time watching her draw and drawing
> with her. Now, on reflection, I might have asked her to only draw in a
> specific place and painted it with really scrubbable paint. I would have
> still drawn with her and at some point I would have invited my children to
> help me scrub the walls (not required them, just invited) so that I wasn't
> the only one having the fun. We would have sung songs about scrubbing the
> wall (this is the way we scrub the wall...). This might have failed and I
> might have ended up with crayon all over the walls of my home, and we would
> have had to gotten out the big roll of paper and have a wall scrubbing
> party.... But either way, there would not have been a little girl who was
> shamed or punished for exploring the world with crayons.
http://jamesfamilyedutrip.blogspot.com/2011/07/sleeping-and-eating.html (the top photo)
That painting on my son's wall started when he had an idea. He grabbed a ladder from our garage. He grabbed some paint from my stash. He painted some. I painted some. He told me what he wanted to see...an apple tree, a robin, a raven, some sunflowers. Now it covers half of his room, and he loves that place. You never know where their inspiration will take them. You never know where it will take you if you are bold enough to follow!
I remember when Ethan was around 3. I left the room very briefly to answer the phone. We had been drawing. As I was talking I heard, "Circles. Circles." I came out to see what he was doing to find him drawing big circles on a freshly painted wall. His circles I could paint over at any time. I still had lots of that colour of paint. That pride at drawing big beautiful shapes I could never recapture at any cost if I had have chosen to scold him. He turned to me all smiles. He had discovered circles. I had rediscovered what exuberant learning looked like.
joanne.lopers
I like the typical unschool days that might have something like this involved. My sons got to watch our toilet be replaced. It kept getting plugged because roots were clogging the pipes. That was fun for a while. Later that evening a neighbor came to rewire our garage. My oldest son saudered something for him and they had some questions for him about what they already new about electricity and what he was doing. This same neighbor gave my son a small dirt bike that he spent the one evening putting together. He told my son he has a weed eater motor he can help him put in it. They came to dig up the street for a leaky pipe. Middle son watched for a long time. Boys go to work with their dad when its possible. My oldest son went up to a neighbors and when I drove by he was raking their leaves, alone? Thought that was funny. All the other kids were, who knows where. An other time they painted their new bunkbeds with them.
Utube has inspire lots of activities, cake decorating, building things with connects, miming, all sorts of science related fun experiments. Bubbles, straws, food coloring and a glass surface made one day real fun. I went on line and found that there are all sorts of things to be learned from bubble play but we didn't learn them all!
Kids really liked it when I decided to try baking more and they would come and go with helping me.
We take chalk for a walk and write kind notes to people on the sidewalk. We like your house mailbox and such.
Typical seems to change more often than the seasons, sometimes with more activity and busy out of the house things and sometimes we are more home bound.
Joanne
Utube has inspire lots of activities, cake decorating, building things with connects, miming, all sorts of science related fun experiments. Bubbles, straws, food coloring and a glass surface made one day real fun. I went on line and found that there are all sorts of things to be learned from bubble play but we didn't learn them all!
Kids really liked it when I decided to try baking more and they would come and go with helping me.
We take chalk for a walk and write kind notes to people on the sidewalk. We like your house mailbox and such.
Typical seems to change more often than the seasons, sometimes with more activity and busy out of the house things and sometimes we are more home bound.
Joanne
m_aduhene
I did some volunteering in a school a couple of times because I need to get some "classroom experience" so I can go on the supply teacher's register here in the UK. Not 100% sure about it but money is needed and I will only be working with the little ones where play is still allowed (sometimes).
Anyway when I have a wobble about if what I am doing is enough I look back to the days in the school. I wonder if it will help the OP.
Maths : Adding doubles on two dice and writing down the answer. Time given for activity 1 hour. Most children finished in 10 mins and told to go back and make up their own. By this time children getting restless. There is only so much you can do with two dice and so many times you can add them up.
Maths : Guessing and estimating weight of shoes. Only one set of scales for 15-20 pupils.....that was fun! (not)
English : sticking down their descriptive words they had written the other day on a piece of paper.
I was sitting with a young boy who had been kept in from playtime because he had not done enough writing. I was in the classroom with him and he was looking like he needed some help, so I asked him if he did. He said he would like some help and managed two more sentences in the 20 mins of break (I was fine with that, not sure if the teacher was). He chatted while we "worked" and he said, "You know Miss, my family have a problem with writing, we just can't seem to do it.....". He was 7!!!!
There was also a young man of 7 who was playing with the eraser in the middle of the table while listening to the teacher's explanantion of what they were going to do in the session. He then began flopping about a bit and laying his head on his arms. The teacher moved him from the table to the carpet (which to me gave him the space and freedom he was craving and so perhaps was not a great idea on the part of the teacher. And did not achieve what she wanted, him to sit still). He got more and more restless. He was then punished by being kept in 5 mins at lunchtime.
I could give you many more examples, I know even on a what I perceive as a "bad and unproductive" day in my house it never gets as bad as this.
Hope it helps. Sorry for the schoolish angle but I thought it might highlight the perception of "the alternative", that keeps nagging at the OP, is not always so great.
blessings
michelle
Anyway when I have a wobble about if what I am doing is enough I look back to the days in the school. I wonder if it will help the OP.
Maths : Adding doubles on two dice and writing down the answer. Time given for activity 1 hour. Most children finished in 10 mins and told to go back and make up their own. By this time children getting restless. There is only so much you can do with two dice and so many times you can add them up.
Maths : Guessing and estimating weight of shoes. Only one set of scales for 15-20 pupils.....that was fun! (not)
English : sticking down their descriptive words they had written the other day on a piece of paper.
I was sitting with a young boy who had been kept in from playtime because he had not done enough writing. I was in the classroom with him and he was looking like he needed some help, so I asked him if he did. He said he would like some help and managed two more sentences in the 20 mins of break (I was fine with that, not sure if the teacher was). He chatted while we "worked" and he said, "You know Miss, my family have a problem with writing, we just can't seem to do it.....". He was 7!!!!
There was also a young man of 7 who was playing with the eraser in the middle of the table while listening to the teacher's explanantion of what they were going to do in the session. He then began flopping about a bit and laying his head on his arms. The teacher moved him from the table to the carpet (which to me gave him the space and freedom he was craving and so perhaps was not a great idea on the part of the teacher. And did not achieve what she wanted, him to sit still). He got more and more restless. He was then punished by being kept in 5 mins at lunchtime.
I could give you many more examples, I know even on a what I perceive as a "bad and unproductive" day in my house it never gets as bad as this.
Hope it helps. Sorry for the schoolish angle but I thought it might highlight the perception of "the alternative", that keeps nagging at the OP, is not always so great.
blessings
michelle
Sandra Dodd
Julie M wrote this:
**********
I read a great quote the other day that will stick with me forever. I think it was on one of the unschooling Facebook pages, but maybe not. I just googled it to get it right:
"When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of discovering it for himself." ~ Jean Piaget
Ponder that. It's brutal and condemning and may help shut down the urge to give lessons. Spend the effort you would on lessons and beating yourself up later for giving lessons and questioning whether you should give another lesson on living a rich and varied life. There is no better life and no better education than that, especially when there is peace and confidence at home.
*************
I'm quoting that whole post, Julie, as a typical day and it will be, but isn't all cleaned up (might be by the time some people click it) here:
http://sandradodd.com/day/juliem
The Piaget quote has additional importance for unschooling, I think. If a parent can learn how to "facilitate learning"--to help a child get what he needs or wants--rather than to direct or try to own it, all of unschooling goes better. And if a child learns to read without "reading instruction," that can open the world up like nothing else can.
http://sandradodd.com/r/deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**********
I read a great quote the other day that will stick with me forever. I think it was on one of the unschooling Facebook pages, but maybe not. I just googled it to get it right:
"When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of discovering it for himself." ~ Jean Piaget
Ponder that. It's brutal and condemning and may help shut down the urge to give lessons. Spend the effort you would on lessons and beating yourself up later for giving lessons and questioning whether you should give another lesson on living a rich and varied life. There is no better life and no better education than that, especially when there is peace and confidence at home.
*************
I'm quoting that whole post, Julie, as a typical day and it will be, but isn't all cleaned up (might be by the time some people click it) here:
http://sandradodd.com/day/juliem
The Piaget quote has additional importance for unschooling, I think. If a parent can learn how to "facilitate learning"--to help a child get what he needs or wants--rather than to direct or try to own it, all of unschooling goes better. And if a child learns to read without "reading instruction," that can open the world up like nothing else can.
http://sandradodd.com/r/deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alma
--- In [email protected], "jennwells79" <jennwells79@...> wrote:
I feel like I need to be constantly throwing out new ideas and concepts and whatever just so they are even AWARE of what does exist outside of our home. Is this true, and how do I do that?
>
=-=-=-=
I want to talk a bit about strewing, and getting the world outside the home into it. "Constantly throwing out new ideas" sounds a very active thing. A lot of bringing the world into the home is more responsive. For example, you don't need to think "OMG, countries, they don't know about different countries, where do I start? I'd better show them a map of India, and ". Rather, when your child is looking through a beloved picture book of animals you can say things like "Yes, it's a lovely tiger." And then, depending on the engagement of the child, you talk about where they live wild, where (and why) they live in captivity, what they eat, how they live, how big they are, that they purr like Kitty, that they're endangered (and why, and what people are doing about it) etc etc etc. It might spin off into maps, youtube clips etc. Not all at once as this is not a unit study in tigers but a conversation lasting only as long as the child is interested (and that may be not at all). My point is that the big wide world is brought alive in every conversation with your child, in every pursuit of interest by your child. And they retain information they find interesting in the moment.
I have two sons aged 6 and 9. At first I understood strewing to be buying new and different things like games or books and leaving them where the child could see them and pick them up if interested (this *is* strewing but only part of it). I used to think strewing didn't work with my 9 yr old because whatever I left lying around for him to discover was just pushed aside to create space for whatever he was doing. So I stopped strewing in that kind of way and started to look at his interests and think of things either directly to do with them or very similar eg he loves lego, so I've bought large plywood pieces for lego layouts, introduced lego computer games, Minecraft, The Brick Show (http://www.brickshow.com/), youtube lego animations, other construction type kits (eg meccano) etc etc. Some stick, some don't. Some lead further eg watching The Brick Show led to him making his own lego kit review videos. My second son is much more likely to pick up random things lying around, and want to play with, read or watch whatever it is. So for him my earlier view of strewing is appropriate and so as well as expanding his current interests I consciously strew a wider variety of things for him.
Bringing the world into the home is not only about the children's interests but the adults. DH and I have become more curious and expanded our own interests and we too are living a richer life through unschooling. Our children are aware of many of those things too, even if it doesn't seem so.
Sometimes the world comes into the home in unexpected ways. For example, our children had been given a book called something like "25 great paintings every kid should know" which was lying around gathering dust. One day we were all together. The boys were playing lego on the floor and I picked up the book and asked DH if he wanted to see how many of these great paintings he knew. Being competitive he accepted the challenge and for 45 minutes we talked art. Several days later my older son, in reference to something completely different mentioned something in "one of those paintings you and daddy were looking at".
When children are young there is so much already in the home that can be played with, explored, talked about etc. So much is new to them. If you are alert to your children and their interests and talk and explore with them you will find that they learn so much about the world beyond your home even while snugly inside it.
Alison
DS(6) and DS(9)
Sandra Dodd
I saved part of what Chris wrote here:
http://sandradodd.com/babies
The part about discovering feet, and coloring.
I didn't notice at first that the question was for us to "illustrate a hypothetical unschooling day." That question might have made sense 20 years ago, but people have over 300 REAL unschooling days every years. Many families are in the thousands of unschooling days now, and hypotheticals aren't necessary.
Sandra
http://sandradodd.com/babies
The part about discovering feet, and coloring.
I didn't notice at first that the question was for us to "illustrate a hypothetical unschooling day." That question might have made sense 20 years ago, but people have over 300 REAL unschooling days every years. Many families are in the thousands of unschooling days now, and hypotheticals aren't necessary.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-Think for a moment about what "self-directed" learning looks like. It's a loaded phrase because it implies that a child will direct themselves to learn just exactly what the teacher/parent wants them to learn. -=-
Or even to direct themselves to learn that much stuff, somehow, of their own design and devising. Neither one is what radical unschooling looks like, though.
Learning can happen easily and constantly, when it's not prevented. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Or even to direct themselves to learn that much stuff, somehow, of their own design and devising. Neither one is what radical unschooling looks like, though.
Learning can happen easily and constantly, when it's not prevented. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Using the word "directed" makes learning seem like we need someone to tell
us to learn (and when and how and what) and if someone else isn't telling
us, we have to tell ourselves to do it.
-pam
us to learn (and when and how and what) and if someone else isn't telling
us, we have to tell ourselves to do it.
-pam
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> Or even to direct themselves to learn that much stuff, somehow, of their
> own design and devising. Neither one is what radical unschooling looks
> like, though.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I did some volunteering in a school a couple of times because I need to get some "classroom experience" so I can go on the supply teacher's register here in the UK. Not 100% sure about it but money is needed and I will only be working with the little ones where play is still allowed (sometimes).
Anyway when I have a wobble about if what I am doing is enough I look back to the days in the school. I wonder if it will help the OP.***
I'm glad you posted this! In other places online where unschooling and natural learning are discussed and a teacher from the UK jumps in, it seems that from their perspective UK schools are the most awesome and progressive things on the planet! I'm always wondering, thinking maybe there's something magical about UK schools where kids are happy and teachers are all awesome. I seriously doubted this to be the case, but it's hard to argue something I know nothing about.
Perhaps the difference is all in teacher training ;) I don't know, but thanks for helping to dispel this myth that somehow these things aren't happening in other places around the world!
The only thing I knew for sure was that in the UK they have compulsory education as opposed to compulsory attendance like what the US has. Plus Sir Ken Robinson makes a pretty convincing argument that schools kill creativity and he's been knighted!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anyway when I have a wobble about if what I am doing is enough I look back to the days in the school. I wonder if it will help the OP.***
I'm glad you posted this! In other places online where unschooling and natural learning are discussed and a teacher from the UK jumps in, it seems that from their perspective UK schools are the most awesome and progressive things on the planet! I'm always wondering, thinking maybe there's something magical about UK schools where kids are happy and teachers are all awesome. I seriously doubted this to be the case, but it's hard to argue something I know nothing about.
Perhaps the difference is all in teacher training ;) I don't know, but thanks for helping to dispel this myth that somehow these things aren't happening in other places around the world!
The only thing I knew for sure was that in the UK they have compulsory education as opposed to compulsory attendance like what the US has. Plus Sir Ken Robinson makes a pretty convincing argument that schools kill creativity and he's been knighted!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***...like we need someone to tell
us to learn (and when and how and what) and if someone else isn't telling
us, we have to tell ourselves to do it.***
Well, that IS the generally assumed way that kids learn anything. That's why teachers are so necessary since kids won't do that stuff on their own, they NEED to have teachers there forcing it into them and/or making sure they force it into themselves during their allotted time to work on this stuff.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
us to learn (and when and how and what) and if someone else isn't telling
us, we have to tell ourselves to do it.***
Well, that IS the generally assumed way that kids learn anything. That's why teachers are so necessary since kids won't do that stuff on their own, they NEED to have teachers there forcing it into them and/or making sure they force it into themselves during their allotted time to work on this stuff.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Pam wrote:
-=-Using the word "directed" makes learning seems like we need someone to tell us to learn...-=-
Might non-directed learning work better?
Our local group is a "non-directed support group" for similar reasons. A "directed" group might emphasize the direction (or director) over the support.
With either self-directed, parent-directed, or parent-directed learning the emphasis is on the direction/director not the learning.
Kelly
Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile
-=-Using the word "directed" makes learning seems like we need someone to tell us to learn...-=-
Might non-directed learning work better?
Our local group is a "non-directed support group" for similar reasons. A "directed" group might emphasize the direction (or director) over the support.
With either self-directed, parent-directed, or parent-directed learning the emphasis is on the direction/director not the learning.
Kelly
Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile
Sandra Dodd
-=-Might non-directed learning work better? -=-
I don't see how it's any better.
How about "learning"?
-=-Our local group is a "non-directed support group" for similar reasons. A "directed" group might emphasize the direction (or director) over the support. -=-
I've never heard of a "directed" support group. Maybe it should be called "a support group."
Unnecessary words added on to what might simply and more clearly have been clarity create muddy muddly mud.
Sandra
I don't see how it's any better.
How about "learning"?
-=-Our local group is a "non-directed support group" for similar reasons. A "directed" group might emphasize the direction (or director) over the support. -=-
I've never heard of a "directed" support group. Maybe it should be called "a support group."
Unnecessary words added on to what might simply and more clearly have been clarity create muddy muddly mud.
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
we have a compulsory education law, not a compulsory attendance law.
In practice - I've never heard of there being any difference.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>Every state in the US is different, but at least in my state (California)
> The only thing I knew for sure was that in the UK they have compulsory
> education as opposed to compulsory attendance like what the US has. >>>
we have a compulsory education law, not a compulsory attendance law.
In practice - I've never heard of there being any difference.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-In practice - I've never heard of there being any difference.-=-
Not in practice, but in legal liability. Some states were sued for not providing an education. Kids grew up without reading or arithmetic, or whatever, and there were lawsuits. So they changed the phrasing, so that the state's obligation is to provide schools and require kids to attend. Then, they figure, if the kid doesn't learn, it's not their fault.
They're making public school children responsible for their own learning. :-/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not in practice, but in legal liability. Some states were sued for not providing an education. Kids grew up without reading or arithmetic, or whatever, and there were lawsuits. So they changed the phrasing, so that the state's obligation is to provide schools and require kids to attend. Then, they figure, if the kid doesn't learn, it's not their fault.
They're making public school children responsible for their own learning. :-/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]