joanne.lopers
My 10 year old shot our lap top with a bb gun bullet last night while watching a show in his room and broke the screen. He came and asked when daddy would get paid again because the screen was broken. He sort of skirted around how it happened but I figured it out because I had heard the clicking of the gun a few minutes earlier but had not yet got up to investigate because the clicking had stopped. He has been asked numerous times not to point guns at the screens for this very reason (Should I have bulletless guns around that he can point at the screen and shoot?) He has areas set up to do target practice throughout the house and yard. He had broke this computer before once before about a year ago, frustrated at a game and we replaced it and when he was very little he had broke another monitor out of frustration. He sort of has a tendency towards these things (broke his sisters bedroom window with the handle of a shovel because he said she was teasing him) and I would like to help him react better and listen when we have what we think are reasonable requests but things of this nature keep happening with him. We've asked him not to go ahead and do things without asking us first,(maybe too vague a request) he took the breaks of his new bike so he could be like the guys at the skate park but it is not safe, we think, not to have breaks on a street bike, or skate bike for that matter. Maybe the matter is that I should be checking on him more but he is usually not left alone for that long I feel, he had only been in his room for 20 minutes or so before he shot the screen. My husband just lost his job, we cannot really afford to replace the screen again. I have been reading and trying for a couple of years now. Life is mostly happy and peaceful but I was fairly frustrated with the computer screen and needed to go out for a walk to cool down which is not something I have ever before done. He is a kid who moves very fast and I can't always seem to keep up with him, at least this is how I feel. I guess it irritates me to keep having to replace things that he breaks and I would like for it to be minimized.
Joanne
Joanne
Robin Bentley
My first question is: why does he have/use a gun of any kind in the
house?
Robin B.
house?
Robin B.
On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:18 AM, joanne.lopers wrote:
> My 10 year old shot our lap top with a bb gun bullet last night
> while watching a show in his room and broke the screen. He came and
> asked when daddy would get paid again because the screen was broken.
> He sort of skirted around how it happened but I figured it out
> because I had heard the clicking of the gun a few minutes earlier
> but had not yet got up to investigate because the clicking had
> stopped. He has been asked numerous times not to point guns at the
> screens for this very reason (Should I have bulletless guns around
> that he can point at the screen and shoot?) He has areas set up to
> do target practice throughout the house and yard. He had broke this
> computer before once before about a year ago, frustrated at a game
> and we replaced it and when he was very little he had broke another
> monitor out of frustration. He sort of has a tendency towards these
> things (broke his sisters bedroom window with the handle of a shovel
> because he said she was teasing him) and I would like to help him
> react better and listen when we have what we think are reasonable
> requests but things of this nature keep happening with him. We've
> asked him not to go ahead and do things without asking us first,
> (maybe too vague a request) he took the breaks of his new bike so he
> could be like the guys at the skate park but it is not safe, we
> think, not to have breaks on a street bike, or skate bike for that
> matter. Maybe the matter is that I should be checking on him more
> but he is usually not left alone for that long I feel, he had only
> been in his room for 20 minutes or so before he shot the screen. My
> husband just lost his job, we cannot really afford to replace the
> screen again. I have been reading and trying for a couple of years
> now. Life is mostly happy and peaceful but I was fairly frustrated
> with the computer screen and needed to go out for a walk to cool
> down which is not something I have ever before done. He is a kid who
> moves very fast and I can't always seem to keep up with him, at
> least this is how I feel. I guess it irritates me to keep having to
> replace things that he breaks and I would like for it to be minimized.
> Joanne
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- He has been asked numerous times not to point guns at the screens for this very reason (Should I have bulletless guns around that he can point at the screen and shoot?) -=-
The BB gun shouldn't be in the house. But he shouldn't even be shooting nerf guns at anything glass, or anything that costs $1000.
-= He sort of has a tendency towards these things (broke his sisters bedroom window with the handle of a shovel because he said she was teasing him) and I would like to help him react better and listen when we have what we think are reasonable requests but things of this nature keep happening with him.-=-
Talk to him about making conscious decisions and about breathing. Not all at once, not all in a long lecture, and not because you think it's reasonable, but help him see that it will help him be a better person--a clearer, more powerful person.
-=- Maybe the matter is that I should be checking on him more but he is usually not left alone for that long I feel, he had only been in his room for 20 minutes or so before he shot the screen.-=-
If he was watching a movie, that can be done with an old TV and a DVD player. You can probably get those from Freecycle or a thrift store. If it's watching through netflix, a Roku box is only like $60 now (but would need a newish TV to hook up to---not the newest, but very old ones might not work).
I wouldn't let him use a laptop for a few years, except right in the room where I was, if it were my kid and he had broken two of them.
-=-I have been reading and trying for a couple of years now.-=-
Did unschooling make you think this was necessary? -=-. He has been asked numerous times not to point guns at the screens for this very reason (Should I have bulletless guns around that he can point at the screen and shoot?) He has areas set up to do target practice throughout the house and yard.-=-
TELL him not to point it, don't ask him.
It's not his. He can shoot a laptop when he can buy one, tell him. NOT yours. Not even playing.
ASKING him means that he can if he wants to. You somehow failed to TELL HIM not to.
But why would he need to be told that?
Maybe because you've set up target practice places inside the house. For a BB gun!?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The BB gun shouldn't be in the house. But he shouldn't even be shooting nerf guns at anything glass, or anything that costs $1000.
-= He sort of has a tendency towards these things (broke his sisters bedroom window with the handle of a shovel because he said she was teasing him) and I would like to help him react better and listen when we have what we think are reasonable requests but things of this nature keep happening with him.-=-
Talk to him about making conscious decisions and about breathing. Not all at once, not all in a long lecture, and not because you think it's reasonable, but help him see that it will help him be a better person--a clearer, more powerful person.
-=- Maybe the matter is that I should be checking on him more but he is usually not left alone for that long I feel, he had only been in his room for 20 minutes or so before he shot the screen.-=-
If he was watching a movie, that can be done with an old TV and a DVD player. You can probably get those from Freecycle or a thrift store. If it's watching through netflix, a Roku box is only like $60 now (but would need a newish TV to hook up to---not the newest, but very old ones might not work).
I wouldn't let him use a laptop for a few years, except right in the room where I was, if it were my kid and he had broken two of them.
-=-I have been reading and trying for a couple of years now.-=-
Did unschooling make you think this was necessary? -=-. He has been asked numerous times not to point guns at the screens for this very reason (Should I have bulletless guns around that he can point at the screen and shoot?) He has areas set up to do target practice throughout the house and yard.-=-
TELL him not to point it, don't ask him.
It's not his. He can shoot a laptop when he can buy one, tell him. NOT yours. Not even playing.
ASKING him means that he can if he wants to. You somehow failed to TELL HIM not to.
But why would he need to be told that?
Maybe because you've set up target practice places inside the house. For a BB gun!?
Sandra
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Felicia Johnson
Not only would I not allow use of a gun in the house, I would not be
replacing things he broke. He can replace them with his own money. My 11
year old son has plenty of jobs and he pays for things he breaks. Teaches
responsibility.
--
Felicia Johnson
All Things Granola - www.allthingsgranola.com
My Life: http://felipsha.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. But in our culture,
we apply for a curse and reject blessings. Something is wrong with this
picture.
Doug Philips(Vision Forum)
https://affiliates.visionforum.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=671
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
replacing things he broke. He can replace them with his own money. My 11
year old son has plenty of jobs and he pays for things he breaks. Teaches
responsibility.
--
Felicia Johnson
All Things Granola - www.allthingsgranola.com
My Life: http://felipsha.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. But in our culture,
we apply for a curse and reject blessings. Something is wrong with this
picture.
Doug Philips(Vision Forum)
https://affiliates.visionforum.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=671
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Not only would I not allow use of a gun in the house, I would not be
replacing things he broke. He can replace them with his own money. My 11
year old son has plenty of jobs and he pays for things he breaks. Teaches
responsibility.-=-
I let that post through too quickly. Sorry.
Unschooling isn't about "teaching" so much as being our children's partner.
This child is ten years old. There are not "plenty of jobs" for most ten year olds.
If I'm not paying attention to my child and he breaks something, our team let something get broken. Children that age are not legally responsible for their actions; their parents are.
Many things traditionally done to "teach responsibility" end up teaching antagonism. Kids sometimes run away and or kill themselves because parents were trying to "teach responsibility."
On the other hand, parents should learn responsibility for their children's happiness, health and learning, and not leave a known screen-killer alone with a weapon and a laptop. (I'm joking, but I'm not.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
replacing things he broke. He can replace them with his own money. My 11
year old son has plenty of jobs and he pays for things he breaks. Teaches
responsibility.-=-
I let that post through too quickly. Sorry.
Unschooling isn't about "teaching" so much as being our children's partner.
This child is ten years old. There are not "plenty of jobs" for most ten year olds.
If I'm not paying attention to my child and he breaks something, our team let something get broken. Children that age are not legally responsible for their actions; their parents are.
Many things traditionally done to "teach responsibility" end up teaching antagonism. Kids sometimes run away and or kill themselves because parents were trying to "teach responsibility."
On the other hand, parents should learn responsibility for their children's happiness, health and learning, and not leave a known screen-killer alone with a weapon and a laptop. (I'm joking, but I'm not.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
The honest answer to his request to replace the screen is that it will take time for you to figure out how to allocate the money to do so. Until then he will have to use whatever other computers are available for his use.
A known offender, a known quick mover, quick to action, quick to destroy stuff is an absolute energy black hole, but that doesn't make it less important that you be with him. If you can't be with him, make sure that he is in a safe place with a minimum dollar figure of things that could be easily and quickly broken. When you replace the computer, don't let it mix with destructive things until you feel that he is unlikely to do something either intentionally or through habitual carelessness that will cause it to break.
More time with him, and being aware of what he is likely to do in certain situations, certain moods, will make a difference. Was he bored? Was he tired? Was he hungry? Was he doing something that frustrates him normally? That kind of knowledge can go some way to helping you see when you can expect something to get broken and when you should be more present.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: joanne.lopers <wilmalv@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 18:18
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] (unknown)
My 10 year old shot our lap top with a bb gun bullet last night while watching a show in his room and broke the screen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A known offender, a known quick mover, quick to action, quick to destroy stuff is an absolute energy black hole, but that doesn't make it less important that you be with him. If you can't be with him, make sure that he is in a safe place with a minimum dollar figure of things that could be easily and quickly broken. When you replace the computer, don't let it mix with destructive things until you feel that he is unlikely to do something either intentionally or through habitual carelessness that will cause it to break.
More time with him, and being aware of what he is likely to do in certain situations, certain moods, will make a difference. Was he bored? Was he tired? Was he hungry? Was he doing something that frustrates him normally? That kind of knowledge can go some way to helping you see when you can expect something to get broken and when you should be more present.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: joanne.lopers <wilmalv@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 18:18
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] (unknown)
My 10 year old shot our lap top with a bb gun bullet last night while watching a show in his room and broke the screen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
Personally, I wouldn't allow my kid access to a bb gun without permission, especially if that kid is reckless. If you put it up and out of reach, he can ask for it and then you know when he has it and you can supervise his play. I also wouldn't do target practice inside the house, it leaves too much room for accidents. My 10 yr old has a nice bow and arrow, but we keep it up. There have been a couple of times in bad weather that my husband set up a box target at the end of the hall for using it, but he supervises the whole time and takes it down and puts things away when done.
Perhaps you can set up a screen replacement jar fund, or broken things jar fund. That way, your son can see what goes into it, how long it will take, and could add to it with his own money when he gets some. Some kids just break things by their mere existence! I've known kids like that. My sister was like that. Some kids are very gentle, but you clearly don't have that, so your life should focus on how to live in a world where things will get broken. He may grow out of it, or he may not. I've known adults who live hard too. My uncle and cousin are like that and for them, getting into dune racing was perfect for them. They could race and break a car and fix it and do it all over again.
It's a foreign concept to me, the idea that things are completely replaceable and going out and living in the world that way, living hard and reckless and coming out of it relatively unscathed and finding ways of doing it all over again. There is a bit envy in that, for me. I can see it and admire it in other people, but by nature, I could never be that way!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perhaps you can set up a screen replacement jar fund, or broken things jar fund. That way, your son can see what goes into it, how long it will take, and could add to it with his own money when he gets some. Some kids just break things by their mere existence! I've known kids like that. My sister was like that. Some kids are very gentle, but you clearly don't have that, so your life should focus on how to live in a world where things will get broken. He may grow out of it, or he may not. I've known adults who live hard too. My uncle and cousin are like that and for them, getting into dune racing was perfect for them. They could race and break a car and fix it and do it all over again.
It's a foreign concept to me, the idea that things are completely replaceable and going out and living in the world that way, living hard and reckless and coming out of it relatively unscathed and finding ways of doing it all over again. There is a bit envy in that, for me. I can see it and admire it in other people, but by nature, I could never be that way!
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Meredith
"joanne.lopers" <wilmalv@...> wrote:
It's up to you to help him do that, by being close to him and giving him the kinds of support and information he needs.
As a little kid, Ray would break things by not knowing his own strength. He didn't learn to be careful by having things break, he learned not to value delicate things. It helped him to have durable things around and remove breakables for a few years. It helped to find lots of ways for him to play outside. It helped to look for damaged toys in free bins and even dumpsters so that he could play with them until they broke without any grief. Most of all, it helped to surround him with safety and yeses so the nos were meaningful.
It's tiring to have a kid who needs a lot of attention and has a lot of energy - I know! I've been there. But it doesn't take More energy to give him all the attention he needs than it does to deal with the fallout of an energetic, needy kid whose needs aren't getting met. It's so much less stressful to Be there with him than it is to deal with crisis after crisis after crisis.
If you're going to have any kind of gun - and You're the adult so You have a gun and are letting your child use it - it's a good idea to have at least a basic understanding of gun safety. It's not enough to say "only shoot at targets" a gun is something to take seriously, even a bb gun. Do some research - maybe even take a gun safety course, since you seem a bit unclear on the subject of what's safe and what's not. Lock up the gun until you're clearer on the subject and be clear with your son that You don't know what's safe and right, yourself.
If possible, I'd go to a gun safety course where you can bring him along. Check with local ranges and see what they have - if they don't have something for kids, ask if someone will give you and your kid some lessons in gun safety. Don't make it a punishment, make it what needs to happen so he can have a bb gun - and make it a fun day where he gets to shoot a real rifle and hang out with people who like guns.
---Meredith
> I guess it irritates me to keep having to replace things that he breaks and I would like for it to be minimized.*******************
It's up to you to help him do that, by being close to him and giving him the kinds of support and information he needs.
As a little kid, Ray would break things by not knowing his own strength. He didn't learn to be careful by having things break, he learned not to value delicate things. It helped him to have durable things around and remove breakables for a few years. It helped to find lots of ways for him to play outside. It helped to look for damaged toys in free bins and even dumpsters so that he could play with them until they broke without any grief. Most of all, it helped to surround him with safety and yeses so the nos were meaningful.
It's tiring to have a kid who needs a lot of attention and has a lot of energy - I know! I've been there. But it doesn't take More energy to give him all the attention he needs than it does to deal with the fallout of an energetic, needy kid whose needs aren't getting met. It's so much less stressful to Be there with him than it is to deal with crisis after crisis after crisis.
>> He has areas set up to do target practice throughout the houseCould not be a worse idea. Would you drive a motorcycle through the house? Shooting a gun in the house makes That little sense.
If you're going to have any kind of gun - and You're the adult so You have a gun and are letting your child use it - it's a good idea to have at least a basic understanding of gun safety. It's not enough to say "only shoot at targets" a gun is something to take seriously, even a bb gun. Do some research - maybe even take a gun safety course, since you seem a bit unclear on the subject of what's safe and what's not. Lock up the gun until you're clearer on the subject and be clear with your son that You don't know what's safe and right, yourself.
If possible, I'd go to a gun safety course where you can bring him along. Check with local ranges and see what they have - if they don't have something for kids, ask if someone will give you and your kid some lessons in gun safety. Don't make it a punishment, make it what needs to happen so he can have a bb gun - and make it a fun day where he gets to shoot a real rifle and hang out with people who like guns.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 2, 2012, at 1:18 PM, joanne.lopers wrote:
Don't hold your breath! It's going to take him *years* to figure out ways not to act on an impulse. That's how he's wired. It's how he'll always be wired. But as he grows, with you on his team, he'll mature so the feelings aren't so strong and he'll have gathered up some ideas that he's found help him.
Don't set him up for failure. If you know he's likely to have an impulse to shoot something new for the challenge of it, don't let that happen in the house. Keep expensive things out of rooms where he's liable to be alone like his bedroom, the bathroom. Find *other* things he can do that won't cause him to fail.
Keeping the house safe isn't punishment. It's living practically with an impulsive, high energy child. If a baby has shown she's not ready to be safe around the stairs, do you remove the baby gates and then keep lecturing her about how dangerous the stairs every time she falls down them?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> He sort of has a tendency towards these thingsI'm guessing you believe eventually some explanation, some approach will turn a lightbulb on in his brain and he's going to say "Oh, I need to not do that!"
Don't hold your breath! It's going to take him *years* to figure out ways not to act on an impulse. That's how he's wired. It's how he'll always be wired. But as he grows, with you on his team, he'll mature so the feelings aren't so strong and he'll have gathered up some ideas that he's found help him.
Don't set him up for failure. If you know he's likely to have an impulse to shoot something new for the challenge of it, don't let that happen in the house. Keep expensive things out of rooms where he's liable to be alone like his bedroom, the bathroom. Find *other* things he can do that won't cause him to fail.
Keeping the house safe isn't punishment. It's living practically with an impulsive, high energy child. If a baby has shown she's not ready to be safe around the stairs, do you remove the baby gates and then keep lecturing her about how dangerous the stairs every time she falls down them?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cara Barlow
>This is really important.
> <<<If you're going to have any kind of gun - and You're the adult so You
> have a gun and are letting your child use it - it's a good idea to have at
> least a basic understanding of gun safety. It's not enough to say "only
> shoot at targets" a gun is something to take seriously, even a bb gun. Do
> some research - maybe even take a gun safety course, since you seem a bit
> unclear on the subject of what's safe and what's not. Lock up the gun until
> you're clearer on the subject and be clear with your son that You don't
> know what's safe and right, yourself. >>>
>
One of my childhood friends accidentally shot his brother in the neck with
a bb gun - his brother died from blood loss. I wasn't there when it
happened, but still think about it fairly often. We were 10 years old.
Best wishes, Cara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My son has a bb gun. It does not come in the house. He is aware that it is safer to shoot outside. We are all for safety.
He used to get really mad and frustrated at video games and scream a lot. He has thrown a few controllers around.
Over a year ago he broke his X-box headset when he got mad. When he calmed down we talked. He regretted doing it.
He felt bad he had done it.
We talked about how to handle frustration, breathing, walking away, and some other ways that could help him.
I did not replace it right away because we could not afford.
It was not punishing and he did not feel like I was punishing him because he knew about our money situation and he
, at that point, thought he would rather use any money for other things he wanted more.
A couple months ago I got him a new headphone for Christmas. He as happy. He told me he would be careful not to break it if he gets mad. I have been helping him for years and at 9 he is so much more in control of his temper when he gets frustrated.
Just a few weeks ago his sister punched him in the nose while playing pretend, his nose was bleeding and he did scream at her but he walked away and come to sit next to me and told me what happened. After he calmed down, Gigi had been crying as she felt really really bad, and they talked and she apologized and they were OK.
It takes a lot not to hit back when you get punched in the nose and you are bleeding but I have coached him for years.
He is very safe with his bbgun and the reason it does not come in the house it is safety. We talked a lot about it. About accidents and how to prevent . We live in a farm so he can shoot a lot outside if he wants.
He wants to be safe and keep others safe.
Having said that I have broken my laptop screen twice. Once I stepped over it and the other time I dropped in the floor.|No one punished me for it. I have those kind of insurance that cover those things for our laptop. Laptop are so prone to accidents.
I am careful about them too! But still I have done it twice.
If I did not have the money to replace the screen you still have the option of connecting to a monitor to use it until you can replace the screen or get a new one. You can find very cheap monitors on craigslist sometimes.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He used to get really mad and frustrated at video games and scream a lot. He has thrown a few controllers around.
Over a year ago he broke his X-box headset when he got mad. When he calmed down we talked. He regretted doing it.
He felt bad he had done it.
We talked about how to handle frustration, breathing, walking away, and some other ways that could help him.
I did not replace it right away because we could not afford.
It was not punishing and he did not feel like I was punishing him because he knew about our money situation and he
, at that point, thought he would rather use any money for other things he wanted more.
A couple months ago I got him a new headphone for Christmas. He as happy. He told me he would be careful not to break it if he gets mad. I have been helping him for years and at 9 he is so much more in control of his temper when he gets frustrated.
Just a few weeks ago his sister punched him in the nose while playing pretend, his nose was bleeding and he did scream at her but he walked away and come to sit next to me and told me what happened. After he calmed down, Gigi had been crying as she felt really really bad, and they talked and she apologized and they were OK.
It takes a lot not to hit back when you get punched in the nose and you are bleeding but I have coached him for years.
He is very safe with his bbgun and the reason it does not come in the house it is safety. We talked a lot about it. About accidents and how to prevent . We live in a farm so he can shoot a lot outside if he wants.
He wants to be safe and keep others safe.
Having said that I have broken my laptop screen twice. Once I stepped over it and the other time I dropped in the floor.|No one punished me for it. I have those kind of insurance that cover those things for our laptop. Laptop are so prone to accidents.
I am careful about them too! But still I have done it twice.
If I did not have the money to replace the screen you still have the option of connecting to a monitor to use it until you can replace the screen or get a new one. You can find very cheap monitors on craigslist sometimes.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joanne.lopers
The targets in the house are for Nerf guns, should have said that. He has one of those disk throwers. I guess I thought nerf guns were made for the house and shooting at targets with soft bullets was not a big deal. The bb guns are for out doors. BB Gun area separate along the side of the house.
"Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him. When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that? He is a challenging child to deal with for me. I have tried to go back and find postes about kids who are more difficult to deal with to keep learning. The other two are more compliant.
I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I guess the alternative is worse.
Thank-you.
Joanne
"Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him. When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that? He is a challenging child to deal with for me. I have tried to go back and find postes about kids who are more difficult to deal with to keep learning. The other two are more compliant.
I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I guess the alternative is worse.
Thank-you.
Joanne
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2012, at 1:18 PM, joanne.lopers wrote:
>
> > He sort of has a tendency towards these things
>
> I'm guessing you believe eventually some explanation, some approach will turn a lightbulb on in his brain and he's going to say "Oh, I need to not do that!"
>
> Don't hold your breath! It's going to take him *years* to figure out ways not to act on an impulse. That's how he's wired. It's how he'll always be wired. But as he grows, with you on his team, he'll mature so the feelings aren't so strong and he'll have gathered up some ideas that he's found help him.
>
> Don't set him up for failure. If you know he's likely to have an impulse to shoot something new for the challenge of it, don't let that happen in the house. Keep expensive things out of rooms where he's liable to be alone like his bedroom, the bathroom. Find *other* things he can do that won't cause him to fail.
>
> Keeping the house safe isn't punishment. It's living practically with an impulsive, high energy child. If a baby has shown she's not ready to be safe around the stairs, do you remove the baby gates and then keep lecturing her about how dangerous the stairs every time she falls down them?
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<< Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him. When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that? He is a challenging child to deal with for me. I have tried to go back and find postes about kids who are more difficult to deal with to keep learning. The other two are more compliant.
I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I guess the alternative is worse.>>>>
Some kids need more, more attention, more presence, more distraction, more interaction . They have more energy, are more impulsive.
My sister's older boy is like that. She kept him home for a couple of years after a disastrous 2 months in 1st grade.
He is back in school now.
My sister never really got how much she needed to be there all the time. It was hard for her.
This past Summer there was a family emergency and my sister flew out to California and left her two boys with me. I knew I had to be with them every minute. I knew I had to facilitate every play between them and between them and my kids. I had to be present and attuned. Things went smoothly but after 4 days I had to take my nephews to the park and leave my kids at home so they could take a break from each other.
Her oldest son has a lot of energy and needs a lot of you. He sounds like your son in some ways. I could not sit down and write this e-mail with him around.
It was not horrible by no means. It was just different than my children who are much easier and mellow . When my son was much younger I did spend all the time with him like that but he has grown and changed. My nephew did not get the same thing. Not that my sister is not there.. She just does not get how to be there and ready and preventing and avoiding situations . She just never got that she needed more connection in a different way.
When her son was little she said a lot of no's, punished and even spanked in a regular basis.
I always said her son needed more of her. Not just to stop when the boys are fighting but to be with them , attentive and recognize when things are going to go south so she could prevent and stop situations before they escalated.
It is very draining but so worth it.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I guess the alternative is worse.>>>>
Some kids need more, more attention, more presence, more distraction, more interaction . They have more energy, are more impulsive.
My sister's older boy is like that. She kept him home for a couple of years after a disastrous 2 months in 1st grade.
He is back in school now.
My sister never really got how much she needed to be there all the time. It was hard for her.
This past Summer there was a family emergency and my sister flew out to California and left her two boys with me. I knew I had to be with them every minute. I knew I had to facilitate every play between them and between them and my kids. I had to be present and attuned. Things went smoothly but after 4 days I had to take my nephews to the park and leave my kids at home so they could take a break from each other.
Her oldest son has a lot of energy and needs a lot of you. He sounds like your son in some ways. I could not sit down and write this e-mail with him around.
It was not horrible by no means. It was just different than my children who are much easier and mellow . When my son was much younger I did spend all the time with him like that but he has grown and changed. My nephew did not get the same thing. Not that my sister is not there.. She just does not get how to be there and ready and preventing and avoiding situations . She just never got that she needed more connection in a different way.
When her son was little she said a lot of no's, punished and even spanked in a regular basis.
I always said her son needed more of her. Not just to stop when the boys are fighting but to be with them , attentive and recognize when things are going to go south so she could prevent and stop situations before they escalated.
It is very draining but so worth it.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him.-=-
He didn't point it at the TV. He pointed it at the laptop. So he followed the rule. You made the mistake of making a narrow rule, rather than helping him understand the principle. If the rule is "don't point it at the TV, that means lamps, mirrors and windows are okay. If you have a rule that says "Don't poke the cat in the eye" then it's okay to poke it in the ears, nose, mouth and butt, or to spray it in the eye.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
-=-The other two are more compliant. -=-
"Compliant" means they comply; they follow rules.
Are you unschooling? How's the unschooling going other than this BB gun situation?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He didn't point it at the TV. He pointed it at the laptop. So he followed the rule. You made the mistake of making a narrow rule, rather than helping him understand the principle. If the rule is "don't point it at the TV, that means lamps, mirrors and windows are okay. If you have a rule that says "Don't poke the cat in the eye" then it's okay to poke it in the ears, nose, mouth and butt, or to spray it in the eye.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
-=-The other two are more compliant. -=-
"Compliant" means they comply; they follow rules.
Are you unschooling? How's the unschooling going other than this BB gun situation?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that?***
You take several steps back from telling him not to shoot the screen, way before he even has the gun in his hand. If you are his partner, then you can get the gun down from it's safe location, when he asks to use it, and help set him up outside to shoot, then help him put the gun away.
If you do end up treating it as a real gun, lock it up. I've known lots of kids who have been injured by bb guns. I wouldn't treat it like a toy. Nerf guns are toys, but even they can do damage to fragile things.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You take several steps back from telling him not to shoot the screen, way before he even has the gun in his hand. If you are his partner, then you can get the gun down from it's safe location, when he asks to use it, and help set him up outside to shoot, then help him put the gun away.
If you do end up treating it as a real gun, lock it up. I've known lots of kids who have been injured by bb guns. I wouldn't treat it like a toy. Nerf guns are toys, but even they can do damage to fragile things.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joanne.lopers
I got it about leaving him alone with a weapon and laptop. The bbguns are outdoor things though they are stored in the house, now they will be stored in the safe. The boys go shooting with their dad and he is well versed in gun safety as are the boys. They have goggles and a specific area to shoot the bb guns.
When I said compliant I meant that if I said to the other two children, "Don't point the nerf gun at the tv." they'd probably not do it again or comply with my request. In our house there is not much else that I would care about getting broken by a nerf gun bullet. I get most things at garage sales and am not a collector of pretty things that break.
I do not know why he feels the need to point the nerf guns at the tv and scream bang bang bang? But he is more prone to acting in a manner that I question. Strange things. Biting his toe nails infront of his grand mother. Nose picking. Acting out infront of others seemingly suddenly, I guess I miss the cues but they are not always so apparent.
I would say I am present 90% of the time. There are periods that things run smoothly for a long time, and when I say smoothly it is never that easy with him but I am there and prevent and forsee and remember all his triggers etc. But there are periods when I miss or am tired mentally or I have a time when my brain just shuts down until I can reboot it again because he is being more diffucult that just normal. Not that often but it happens. This incident happened late at night when I think I thought I was off duty. Things were calm and quiet.
I think our unschooling journey is going pretty well and is fairly typical from what I read about here. I wrote a lot about what we do but I think you were getting at why I chose to use the word comply and it was just more a discription of how the younger ones are though I could have said many other words to describe their agreeable natures. I've read your principles posts many times though I probably don't live it to a T.
I'll adjust some things on my part and see how things go.
Joanne
When I said compliant I meant that if I said to the other two children, "Don't point the nerf gun at the tv." they'd probably not do it again or comply with my request. In our house there is not much else that I would care about getting broken by a nerf gun bullet. I get most things at garage sales and am not a collector of pretty things that break.
I do not know why he feels the need to point the nerf guns at the tv and scream bang bang bang? But he is more prone to acting in a manner that I question. Strange things. Biting his toe nails infront of his grand mother. Nose picking. Acting out infront of others seemingly suddenly, I guess I miss the cues but they are not always so apparent.
I would say I am present 90% of the time. There are periods that things run smoothly for a long time, and when I say smoothly it is never that easy with him but I am there and prevent and forsee and remember all his triggers etc. But there are periods when I miss or am tired mentally or I have a time when my brain just shuts down until I can reboot it again because he is being more diffucult that just normal. Not that often but it happens. This incident happened late at night when I think I thought I was off duty. Things were calm and quiet.
I think our unschooling journey is going pretty well and is fairly typical from what I read about here. I wrote a lot about what we do but I think you were getting at why I chose to use the word comply and it was just more a discription of how the younger ones are though I could have said many other words to describe their agreeable natures. I've read your principles posts many times though I probably don't live it to a T.
I'll adjust some things on my part and see how things go.
Joanne
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> <<<<< Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him. When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that? He is a challenging child to deal with for me. I have tried to go back and find postes about kids who are more difficult to deal with to keep learning. The other two are more compliant.
> I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I guess the alternative is worse.>>>>
>
>
>
> Some kids need more, more attention, more presence, more distraction, more interaction . They have more energy, are more impulsive.
>
> My sister's older boy is like that. She kept him home for a couple of years after a disastrous 2 months in 1st grade.
> He is back in school now.
> My sister never really got how much she needed to be there all the time. It was hard for her.
>
> This past Summer there was a family emergency and my sister flew out to California and left her two boys with me. I knew I had to be with them every minute. I knew I had to facilitate every play between them and between them and my kids. I had to be present and attuned. Things went smoothly but after 4 days I had to take my nephews to the park and leave my kids at home so they could take a break from each other.
> Her oldest son has a lot of energy and needs a lot of you. He sounds like your son in some ways. I could not sit down and write this e-mail with him around.
> It was not horrible by no means. It was just different than my children who are much easier and mellow . When my son was much younger I did spend all the time with him like that but he has grown and changed. My nephew did not get the same thing. Not that my sister is not there.. She just does not get how to be there and ready and preventing and avoiding situations . She just never got that she needed more connection in a different way.
> When her son was little she said a lot of no's, punished and even spanked in a regular basis.
>
> I always said her son needed more of her. Not just to stop when the boys are fighting but to be with them , attentive and recognize when things are going to go south so she could prevent and stop situations before they escalated.
>
> It is very draining but so worth it.
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Stacey Propst
Just a thought, if he really likes shooting at the tv, how about the gun
attachment to the Wii or some other video game where he can actually use a
"game" gun and shoot at the tv screen safely?
Stacey
attachment to the Wii or some other video game where he can actually use a
"game" gun and shoot at the tv screen safely?
Stacey
On Feb 3, 2012 9:38 AM, "joanne.lopers" <wilmalv@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I got it about leaving him alone with a weapon and laptop. The bbguns are
> outdoor things though they are stored in the house, now they will be stored
> in the safe. The boys go shooting with their dad and he is well versed in
> gun safety as are the boys. They have goggles and a specific area to shoot
> the bb guns.
> When I said compliant I meant that if I said to the other two children,
> "Don't point the nerf gun at the tv." they'd probably not do it again or
> comply with my request. In our house there is not much else that I would
> care about getting broken by a nerf gun bullet. I get most things at garage
> sales and am not a collector of pretty things that break.
> I do not know why he feels the need to point the nerf guns at the tv and
> scream bang bang bang? But he is more prone to acting in a manner that I
> question. Strange things. Biting his toe nails infront of his grand mother.
> Nose picking. Acting out infront of others seemingly suddenly, I guess I
> miss the cues but they are not always so apparent.
> I would say I am present 90% of the time. There are periods that things
> run smoothly for a long time, and when I say smoothly it is never that easy
> with him but I am there and prevent and forsee and remember all his
> triggers etc. But there are periods when I miss or am tired mentally or I
> have a time when my brain just shuts down until I can reboot it again
> because he is being more diffucult that just normal. Not that often but it
> happens. This incident happened late at night when I think I thought I was
> off duty. Things were calm and quiet.
> I think our unschooling journey is going pretty well and is fairly typical
> from what I read about here. I wrote a lot about what we do but I think you
> were getting at why I chose to use the word comply and it was just more a
> discription of how the younger ones are though I could have said many other
> words to describe their agreeable natures. I've read your principles posts
> many times though I probably don't live it to a T.
> I'll adjust some things on my part and see how things go.
> Joanne
>
> --- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > <<<<< Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say,
> obviously was not enough for him. When he directly does not comply with
> this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that? He is a challenging
> child to deal with for me. I have tried to go back and find postes about
> kids who are more difficult to deal with to keep learning. The other two
> are more compliant.
> > I'll try to be more present with him and alter my ways to be more there
> for him. I do stop many incidents. It is hard to be "on" all of the time. I
> guess the alternative is worse.>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> > Some kids need more, more attention, more presence, more distraction,
> more interaction . They have more energy, are more impulsive.
> >
> > My sister's older boy is like that. She kept him home for a couple of
> years after a disastrous 2 months in 1st grade.
> > He is back in school now.
> > My sister never really got how much she needed to be there all the time.
> It was hard for her.
> >
> > This past Summer there was a family emergency and my sister flew out to
> California and left her two boys with me. I knew I had to be with them
> every minute. I knew I had to facilitate every play between them and
> between them and my kids. I had to be present and attuned. Things went
> smoothly but after 4 days I had to take my nephews to the park and leave my
> kids at home so they could take a break from each other.
> > Her oldest son has a lot of energy and needs a lot of you. He sounds
> like your son in some ways. I could not sit down and write this e-mail with
> him around.
> > It was not horrible by no means. It was just different than my children
> who are much easier and mellow . When my son was much younger I did spend
> all the time with him like that but he has grown and changed. My nephew did
> not get the same thing. Not that my sister is not there.. She just does not
> get how to be there and ready and preventing and avoiding situations . She
> just never got that she needed more connection in a different way.
> > When her son was little she said a lot of no's, punished and even
> spanked in a regular basis.
> >
> > I always said her son needed more of her. Not just to stop when the boys
> are fighting but to be with them , attentive and recognize when things are
> going to go south so she could prevent and stop situations before they
> escalated.
> >
> > It is very draining but so worth it.
> >
> >
> > Alex Polikowsky
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lukesmama2003
-=-Don't point the guns at the t.v." which is what I would say, obviously was not enough for him.-=-
***When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way
deal with that?***
In just considering this one statement/question, it sounds like you were not partnering with him to keep things safe. I don't mean that to come off harshly, but it is something that should be addressed. I just don't understand why a BB gun would be in the house? That really has nothing to do with unschooling and saying yes more when it is a safety hazard. Saying yes more would be to use the gun at appropriate times and places whenever he asked to do so. My 8.5 year old son also has a bb gun. It is kept out in the pole barn. NEVER in the house so I would never need to say "don't point guns at the TV."
My husband hunts and has a few guns. The guns are kept unloaded and locked up. My oldest son is interested in guns and hunting so my husband spends time with him doing those things. My son, Luke, is very aware of gun dangers and how to be safe but we don't leave it all up to him. We are there with him, and keep the gun out doors for safe use.
If my 8.5 wanted to drive - it would not be safe to say "YES, here are the keys." However, we might be able to simulate driving by going go carting or playing mario kart. Maybe though, it is just that he wants to drive a car for real and hates that he has to wait until he is old enough to take drivers ed or whatever he needs to do. In that case, I just need to listen, understand that and hear his desire and validate him. That is partnering.
Putting it another way with regard to things not getting broken:
I have 4 sons; 8.5, 6. 3.75 and 1. We have 3 computers for my sons to use. They enjoy them very much. My youngest is 3.75 and has his own computer now. There were times before where he used my laptop. When he got frustrated he often would bang on the keys. I would sit with him and help him with the games (or get his something to eat, drink etc if that was a factor feeding the frustration). But there were many times where I just had to close it up and put it away for a bit. I would spend the time with him doing something else; playing a game, wrestling him or just holding him. It was not a rule and he was not being punished. As his partner, I could not stand by while he potentially broke the laptop. No lecture or shaming - just got to the point and told him he couldn't do that.
It would not serve anyone to have a broken computer. At the same time I had to consider what might be leading to his frustrations. Being the mom of 4 young boys, I am busy with one of them most of the time so it is possible that he was needing more of me in those moments (or the moments leading up to the frustration). He also is VERY computer/game savvy for his age but finds himself on website with very hard games or rules that are not easily figured out by just playing it. So in those instances I needed to sit and read the instructions and play it for a bit, or validate his frustrations, or call it a stupid game or something silly.
BUT if he was still banging on the computer, or I could get there in time to buffer the other things leading up to the major frustration then I I would close the laptop or move to a desktop or Wii or just breath with him.
In case point is not coming through - there are many things/layers to look at and deal with as a partner/facilitator to your children. It might not be one answer or a variety of things to do on a daily basis. However, it is still my responsibility to keep the environment safe, and expensive items such as computers and TVs out of harms way so they can be used and enjoyed by everyone for their purpose.
Peace,
Karen
***When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way
deal with that?***
In just considering this one statement/question, it sounds like you were not partnering with him to keep things safe. I don't mean that to come off harshly, but it is something that should be addressed. I just don't understand why a BB gun would be in the house? That really has nothing to do with unschooling and saying yes more when it is a safety hazard. Saying yes more would be to use the gun at appropriate times and places whenever he asked to do so. My 8.5 year old son also has a bb gun. It is kept out in the pole barn. NEVER in the house so I would never need to say "don't point guns at the TV."
My husband hunts and has a few guns. The guns are kept unloaded and locked up. My oldest son is interested in guns and hunting so my husband spends time with him doing those things. My son, Luke, is very aware of gun dangers and how to be safe but we don't leave it all up to him. We are there with him, and keep the gun out doors for safe use.
If my 8.5 wanted to drive - it would not be safe to say "YES, here are the keys." However, we might be able to simulate driving by going go carting or playing mario kart. Maybe though, it is just that he wants to drive a car for real and hates that he has to wait until he is old enough to take drivers ed or whatever he needs to do. In that case, I just need to listen, understand that and hear his desire and validate him. That is partnering.
Putting it another way with regard to things not getting broken:
I have 4 sons; 8.5, 6. 3.75 and 1. We have 3 computers for my sons to use. They enjoy them very much. My youngest is 3.75 and has his own computer now. There were times before where he used my laptop. When he got frustrated he often would bang on the keys. I would sit with him and help him with the games (or get his something to eat, drink etc if that was a factor feeding the frustration). But there were many times where I just had to close it up and put it away for a bit. I would spend the time with him doing something else; playing a game, wrestling him or just holding him. It was not a rule and he was not being punished. As his partner, I could not stand by while he potentially broke the laptop. No lecture or shaming - just got to the point and told him he couldn't do that.
It would not serve anyone to have a broken computer. At the same time I had to consider what might be leading to his frustrations. Being the mom of 4 young boys, I am busy with one of them most of the time so it is possible that he was needing more of me in those moments (or the moments leading up to the frustration). He also is VERY computer/game savvy for his age but finds himself on website with very hard games or rules that are not easily figured out by just playing it. So in those instances I needed to sit and read the instructions and play it for a bit, or validate his frustrations, or call it a stupid game or something silly.
BUT if he was still banging on the computer, or I could get there in time to buffer the other things leading up to the major frustration then I I would close the laptop or move to a desktop or Wii or just breath with him.
In case point is not coming through - there are many things/layers to look at and deal with as a partner/facilitator to your children. It might not be one answer or a variety of things to do on a daily basis. However, it is still my responsibility to keep the environment safe, and expensive items such as computers and TVs out of harms way so they can be used and enjoyed by everyone for their purpose.
Peace,
Karen
--- In [email protected], Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
> ***When he directly does not comply with this. How do you in a partnership way deal with that?***
>
> You take several steps back from telling him not to shoot the screen, way before he even has the gun in his hand. If you are his partner, then you can get the gun down from it's safe location, when he asks to use it, and help set him up outside to shoot, then help him put the gun away.
>
> If you do end up treating it as a real gun, lock it up. I've known lots of kids who have been injured by bb guns. I wouldn't treat it like a toy. Nerf guns are toys, but even they can do damage to fragile things.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>