catherinemforest

Dear friends,

I have always believed in non cohersion and unschooling and working with my children... I have 7 1/2 yo twins and a 6 yo. Needless to say, it is really tough to be the little sister of twins. My little Mathilde always feels like she does not measure up (be it with swimming, drawing or else... she says: I will never be as good as my sisters because they are older than me) and since she is very little she is looking for her twin... She has grown to be very aggressive with me and just very demanding in general. I know that 6 yo is still very little, but everything has to revolve around her or she is throwing a tantrum, whining, etc.

For instance, we are at the restaurant and hungry and wants her food right away (totally understandable). I offer some crackers, a game, a walk with her, etc. but all she wants is her food and she starts pinching me and slapping me. Same thing last night: she wanted an extra pillow (which we didn't have) and threw a huge tantrum about it, keeping every body awake. Today, we went to a zoo here in Costa Rica and it was just beautiful and she whined all day because she did not want to carry her water bottle (I was overloaded and I asked each of them to carry their water bottle), she spent the whole day saying everything was ugly, and again telling me I was stupid, kicking me, etc.

This whole situation makes me really sad and I almost question if she is asking for boundaries (as everybody around me is saying...). I spend one on one time with her regularly (which she craves), show her how much I love her ALL THE TIME, show empathy when she expresses frustrations, etc. But I am at the point where I feel like I don't want to go out with here anymore because it is just ruining the day for everybody else that comes with us...

I feel like I failed her. I don't understand how I can be a better mom to this child. I believe she is suffering if she is acting this way, but I truly do not know how else I could support her...

Any insights?

Catherine

Glenda

===But I am at the point where I feel like I don't want to go out with here anymore because it is just ruining the day for everybody else that
comes with us.===

Does she have the option to stay home with someone if she doesn't want to go out to eat or to the zoo or on other outings? Different people have different levels of tolerance for going-n-doing, and maybe that's coming into play a bit.

Also, keep in mind that she may be picking up on the exasperation you're feeling. I know that when I'm feeling out of sorts and probably not a whole lot of fun to be around, that's when I sure need my husband to be extra-patient and extra-kind, until I can get past that funk. If I feel like he's getting frustrated with me (which is totally understandable on his part!), odds are good I'll end up in tears (because I was probably borderline-tears already).


I keep all this in mind when my son's the one who's feeling out of sorts -- if I begin to feel exasperated, I take a deep breathe and consciously relax my shoulders and let a strong feeling of love wash over me, then I'm able to give that to him and to feel compassion for whatever he might be feeling. With time and practice, it's become easier and more natural. But I still have times when I have to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" to get to that point.

===everything has to revolve around her or she is throwing a tantrum, whining, etc.===

Really? EVERYTHING???

If you stop and think about every single thing that happens in her day, is it really true that everything revolves around her and she's throwing a tantrum or whining if not?

To me, tantrums and whining are good indicators something else is going on. Hunger and tiredness are biggies. Feeling like she doesn't have much control over what she's asked to do or participate in can trigger tantrums and whining. 

===I spend one on one time with her regularly (which she craves)===

If you feel she's craving more time, find ways to give it to her. It may take more to fill her cup than it does to fill yours, or her siblings'.


When you fold laundry, go fold it on her bed and chat with her, or fold it on your bed and ask if she wants to keep you company. Have her pull up a chair when you're prepping food or cooking or doing dishes. Maybe she'll want to help, or maybe she'll be happy hanging out with you and not helping. When she takes a shower or bath, hang out in the bathroom with her and chat with her. 

===show her how much I love her ALL THE TIME===

Not everyone gives or receives love in the same way. It may seem to you you're giving her more than enough love, whereas to her it may not feel like enough.


I did a search on Sandra's site for "enough" and found this quote by Joyce about "needs", on this page: http://sandradodd.com/needs

"Original Poster: He needs a lot of physical stimulation which is very draining.
"Joyce: And imagine what it's like to be bursting with that need. Imagine what
it's like asking for it and being turned down. I'm not saying that to
make you feel guilty. What you need is a mental shift away from
thinking he needs more than you can give.
>
>
>If someone needs 3 glasses of water a day and only gets 2, they'll
spend the rest of the day trying to get that 3rd glass. So it will
seem to others like this person's constantly thirsty and can never get
enough. But if he gets 3 glasses and can have as many as he wants, he
won't seem thirsty at all.
>
>
>
>He can't need less by being given less. He can't modify his needs to
meet what you're willing to give. He can lose faith that you'll meet
his needs. He can look elsewhere to others offering to give what you
won't. (It's how predators work.)
>
>
>If you can mentally shift away from seeing his demands as too much to
his needs being large and you as the one who is privileged with
meeting them, it will help a lot.
>
>
>It will also help to shift away from stuffing down your own needs to
meet his. Shift to finding ways to meet his needs AND yours. His needs
take precedence since he doesn't have the power to meet his own but
you have the power to manipulate the world to meet his and yours."

Glenda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lydia reiter

***Today, we went to a zoo here in Costa Rica and it was just beautiful and she whined all day because she did not want to carry her water bottle
(I was overloaded and I asked each of them to carry their water bottle), she spent the whole day saying everything was ugly, and again telling
me I was stupid, kicking me, etc.***

***But I am at the point where I feel like I don't want to go out with here anymore because it is just ruining the day for everybody else that
comes with us...***

Maybe a whole day is too much of an outing for her.  Maybe the 7 year olds can carry their own water bottles but she is just not ready to take on that responsibility. 



 
Lydia Reiter



________________________________
From: catherinemforest <cforest@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:28 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I don't know how to heal the relationship with my 6 yo


 
Dear friends,

I have always believed in non cohersion and unschooling and working with my children... I have 7 1/2 yo twins and a 6 yo. Needless to say, it is really tough to be the little sister of twins. My little Mathilde always feels like she does not measure up (be it with swimming, drawing or else... she says: I will never be as good as my sisters because they are older than me) and since she is very little she is looking for her twin... She has grown to be very aggressive with me and just very demanding in general. I know that 6 yo is still very little, but everything has to revolve around her or she is throwing a tantrum, whining, etc.

For instance, we are at the restaurant and hungry and wants her food right away (totally understandable). I offer some crackers, a game, a walk with her, etc. but all she wants is her food and she starts pinching me and slapping me. Same thing last night: she wanted an extra pillow (which we didn't have) and threw a huge tantrum about it, keeping every body awake. Today, we went to a zoo here in Costa Rica and it was just beautiful and she whined all day because she did not want to carry her water bottle (I was overloaded and I asked each of them to carry their water bottle), she spent the whole day saying everything was ugly, and again telling me I was stupid, kicking me, etc.

This whole situation makes me really sad and I almost question if she is asking for boundaries (as everybody around me is saying...). I spend one on one time with her regularly (which she craves), show her how much I love her ALL THE TIME, show empathy when she expresses frustrations, etc. But I am at the point where I feel like I don't want to go out with here anymore because it is just ruining the day for everybody else that comes with us...

I feel like I failed her. I don't understand how I can be a better mom to this child. I believe she is suffering if she is acting this way, but I truly do not know how else I could support her...

Any insights?

Catherine




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

>>My little Mathilde always feels like she does not measure up (be it with swimming, drawing or else... she says: I will never be as good as my sisters because they are older than me.<<


Hold her when she says those things and tell her she's right for a lot of that stuff. She will never be as old as they are. And right now, while they are 7 1/2 and 6 the year and a half will make a big difference. She may not want to hear anything in those moments of feeling less than and low and bad. Linnaea will sometimes complain about how much better Simon is at something or t'other than she is. Usually I agree with her. Usually she's right and not just exaggerating because she feels low. She's talking about it, usually, because she feels low. But he is better than she is at some things and she's better than he is at others. She just isn't striving so much in the areas where she is already competent. So she doesn't notice those things as much. But mostly she isn't looking for me to tell her that he's not better than she is, or that she's better than other areas. She feels badly and she wants to be comforted or helped or fed or cuddled or something.
So I try and figure out which it is and not work to gloss over her sense that Simon is better than she is at something. 

>>For instance, we are at the restaurant and hungry and wants her food right away (totally understandable). I offer some crackers, a game, a walk with her, etc. but all she wants is her food and she starts pinching me and slapping me. <<


Order something that can be served immediately. Dessert maybe, something that she can have right away without waiting for the rest of the meal. Dinner out is a treat, make it a comfortable for all of you. 

>> Same thing last night: she wanted an extra pillow (which we didn't have) and threw a huge tantrum about it, keeping every body awake. <<


She sounds like she was really tired. Really tired after a big day of too much going on. Give her your pillow and snuggle up and when she's asleep slip it out from under her. And if you can't come up with a solution, like rolling up a blanket into a pillow or using a couch cushion or a towel or clothes or the problem isn't a pillow, be sorry and move on. That doesn't mean she has to move on, but you can let her be upset and hold her while you aren't upset in response. Don't take it personally, don't add to the energy of the moment, buffer her against her own disappointment and recognise that at 6 she just isn't ready to handle big days where she is too tired and too hungry to cope with the smaller moments of delay and dissatisfaction. 

>>Today, we went to a zoo here in Costa Rica and it was just beautiful and she whined all day because she did not want to carry her water bottle (I was overloaded and I asked each of them to carry their water bottle), she spent the whole day saying everything was ugly, and again telling me I was stupid, kicking me, etc.<<

When Linnaea was 7 we met up with my dad in London and went to the British Museum after spending a night in a lovely hotel. It was all very exciting and very active and very new. My dad is a bit of a forced march kind of fellow. He sets his mind on his plans for the day and is difficult to sway. So David and I worked to buffer Linnaea from the intensity of the day. She still had a couple of moments in the Oriental arts section of the museum. We have a fabulous picture of her lying with her hair hanging off the back of a settee. But it took both David and I knowing that the day would be too much for her, and working to keep her engaged and happy and amused throughout this giant museum. It took finding the amusing things to look at instead of just the historically interesting one. It took carrying her occasionally. It took a willingness to let all the wonder and the beauty of the museum exist without me necessarily having to see it all. It took being very
aware of her needs and much less feeling that I was being asked to miss out on something simply because she was too little to be able to handle a full day at the British Museum. 

Lower your expectations. She's 6 and she's tired and she's hungry and she doesn't necessarily see the beauty in the Costa Rican zoo. Throw away her water bottle and share your water with her if it's too much for both of you to carry. Throw away something else and carry her water bottle. Don't ask her to do more than she is capable of. Sit down more than you walk. Find cool places to sit on the ground and watch the animals from there. Look to her as your guide for what is possible and don't look to what you want to have done at the Costa Rican zoo to tell you how your day should go. 

Schuyler









________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Needless to say, it is really tough to be the little sister of twins.-=-

I think it depends on the family, and on the individuals. Have you been assuming and acting all along as though it was an inescapable, obvious fact that it's tough to be the little sister of twins? If so, that would be my first guess at what might be fueling difficulties.

-=-and since she is very little she is looking for her twin... -=-

If you want to explain this, it might be helpful.

-=-I have always believed in non cohersion and unschooling and working with my children-=-

Coercion. The spelling can matter when people are trying to think about exact meanings of words. "Non-coercion" doesn't always mesh well with unschooling necessarily, depending what aspect of "non-coercion" you put first in your life.

If learning comes first, the scene will be set differently (in what I've seen of many families whose unschooling wasn't going well) than if the first priorities are anything else.

-=-... and working with my children-=-

If you've been working with her on looking for her twin, or on helping her through the "needless to say" toughness of being the younger sister of twins, that might be too much focus on twins, and not enough focus on her as a whole individual separate from her surroundings.

-=For instance, we are at the restaurant and hungry and wants her food right away (totally understandable).-=-

It's not totally understandable. If you define it right off the bat as "totally understandable," it seems you want us to agree with you and begin with that assumption, rather than to encourage you to clarify that going to a restaurant does NOT get you food right away. Going to a buffet might, though! That might be what you should do for a while if there's one available. As soon as you're shown where your table will be, take her for a plate of food. Then help others get food. Don't go to restaurants where you have to wait for food to be prepared. Or order a piece of apple pie as soon as you sit down--something already prepared--that she can eat while you wait.

-=-I offer some crackers, a game, a walk with her, etc. but all she wants is her food and she starts pinching me and slapping me.-=-

If I said I wanted food and someone asked if I wanted to play a game, I wouldn't pinch or slap, but I wouldn't think much of the person.

When she pinches and slaps, do you talk to her patiently in phrases of more than five words? Do you try to soothe her? Or do you STOP HER? Some parents talk and talk and talk too much, and when it's in a sing-songy, condescending voice it can be infuriating.

It that doesn't apply to you, no problem. It likely applies to someone else who's reading.

-=-Same thing last night: she wanted an extra pillow (which we didn't have) and threw a huge tantrum about it, keeping every body awake. -=-

Did you try a stuffed animal in a pillow case? A folded sheet or some t-shirts in a pillow case? Some t-shirts in another t-shirt?

Did you try giving her your pillow and then taking one back after she was asleep?

If you talked and talked and explained about pillows, I would say that you kept people awake by not just giving her a pillow of some sort.

-=-Today, we went to a zoo here in Costa Rica and it was just beautiful and she whined all day because she did not want to carry her water bottle (I was overloaded and I asked each of them to carry their water bottle)-=-

If you had carried her water bottle, she couldn't have whined all day because she didn't want to carry her water bottle. You could have taken a rolly cart of some sort maybe, or a baby stroller to carry things in.

-=-she spent the whole day saying everything was ugly, and again telling me I was stupid, kicking me, etc.-=-

If you could have spent some more of the early part of the day making sure she was having fun, maybe everyone's day could have gone better.

If you had a cart or wagon or stroller, you could have pulled or pushed her, and that might have helped some of the time.

-=-This whole situation makes me really sad and I almost question if she is asking for boundaries (as everybody around me is saying...)-=-

She HAS boundaries. You've made some rules (like no extra pillow, take a walk or play a game if you want food, carry your own water bottle) that don't make a lot of sense, but you're fond of them, and you're blaming her for not liking them instead of seeing ways to make life happier.

-=- I spend one on one time with her regularly (which she craves), show her how much I love her ALL THE TIME, show empathy when she expresses frustrations, etc.-=-

"Regularly" apparently isn't enough. She needs more.

If she believes in your shows of love "all the time," why is she kicking, pinching and hitting? I suppose that's what you're hoping people here will help you see, but I'd trying to point out what shows just in the one description you gave us. You're ignoring what she says, which can't always be helped, but I think you're not seeing what you're doing. You even wrote it down and decided to send it out for advice without seeing it.

And I'm guessing she was frustrated before you sat down in the restaurant (or hungry),
and that the night she wanted an extra pillow she maybe wasn't quite tired yet,
and that she was unhappy when you got to the zoo, even before you declared that she must carry her own water.

-=-I feel like I failed her. I don't understand how I can be a better mom to this child. -=-

You've defined what you do as being the best mom you can be, so it seems it's about you. You told us you "have always believed in non cohersion and unschooling and working with [your] children," but somewhere between the belief/theory and the action, something's missing.

I see that you're going by longterm measures: "always" and "all day."
I think this will help you:
http://sandradodd.com/moment
Aim for making choices that make one moment better.
Before you do or say something, make a choice.
http://sandradodd.com/choices

You can't choose to be an unschooler 7 and a half years ago and expect that one choice to see you through life. You have to choose several times an hour.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claire Darbaud

2012/1/25 Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>

> **
>
> "Non-coercion" doesn't always mesh well with unschooling necessarily,
> depending what aspect of "non-coercion" you put first in your life.
>
If learning comes first, the scene will be set differently (in what I've
> seen of many families whose unschooling wasn't going well) than if the
> first priorities are anything else.
>
Would it be ok for you to expend on that? Can you explain how non-coercion
doesn't mesh well with unschooling? What priorities can mess up unschooling
when they come first? Is learning the very top one? Above safety, peace,
kindness, strong marriage?

I did reread this (I mean just now) http://sandradodd.com/priorities
But I'd love to read some more (of that's ok with you)

Claire


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

I had written:
"Non-coercion" doesn't always mesh well with unschooling necessarily,
depending what aspect of "non-coercion" you put first in your life.

If learning comes first, the scene will be set differently (in what I've
seen of many families whose unschooling wasn't going well) than if the
first priorities are anything else.-=-

Claire D wrote:

-=-Would it be ok for you to expend on that? Can you explain how non-coercion
doesn't mesh well with unschooling?-=-

There was/is a group in the UK that promoted "NCP" (non-coercive parenting) and that would turn by default to homeschooling, it seemed, because their kids were not to be pressured in any way, subtle or otherwise, to do anything. When that came first, they could easily bat away any ideas unschoolers came up with, and although those who used to come to the discussions refused on principle (or rule of their group) to name their kids or give their ages, or even to confirm or deny whether they even HAD kids, or how things were at their house, they would sit by and say "That's coercive" about all sorts of things unschoolers were describing happening at their houses.

Coercion to me (and to the dictionary) means pressing a person unfairly, immorally, cruelly, to do something they really, clearly don't want to do.

The expanded definition of NCP included even persuasion, or the mom even stating a preference. Advice was coercion.

They couldn't even really talk about unschooling. I was only interested in talking about unschooling. Some people were more in between, but when someone comes to a discussion such as this one and says "I'm a non-coercive parent," they might have no idea that they're aligning themselves with extremists. :-)

And for me to say "I'm bugged by NCP" causes some people who see and think in extremes to say "OH, so you're coercive?"

Balance. http://sandradodd.com/balance
I don't accept the extreme newspeak definition of coercion promoted by NCP.
So my answer is "it depends."
I live with my children in the real world. I don't try to "make them" do chores or go to school or sleep when they're not sleepy. I never coerce them to "clean their plate" in any way. They have been making real-life choices, and big ones, for many years. People can call that what they want to. I call it having the opportunity to make a lot of choices.

-=-What priorities can mess up unschooling
when they come first? -=-

discipline
obedience
competitive academics
competitive sports (especially if the parents are pushing it)
Japanese home decorating (too sparse a house)
politics/cynicism/activism

There are surely others.

-=-Is learning the very top one? Above safety, peace,
kindness, strong marriage?

For me, safety is big.
Peace doesn't conflict with learning; it aids it.
Kindness doesn't conflict with learning; it bolsters it.
Learning, peace and kindness make marriages better.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Quoting a list I started earlier, and I'll bring another list from elsewhere:


-=-What priorities can mess up unschooling
when they come first? -=-

discipline
obedience
competitive academics
competitive sports (especially if the parents are pushing it)
Japanese home decorating (too sparse a house)
politics/cynicism/activism

There are surely others.

================================

From a chat on October 8, 2010; Pamela Corkey started the list and others contributed:
Example of priorities than can hamper unschooling:

Having control over your household
Impressing the neighbors
Money
Bragging rights
Extreme dietary restrictions
Anti-"violence"
"Protecting kids from themselves"
Career
Clean and tidy house; everything in its place
Fitness and health
Quiet; discouragement of enthusiasm
Aiming for "age-appropriate capability"
Raising "independent" children
Wealthy suburban "lifestyle"
Organic eco-conscious "lifestyle"
"Everyone has a lifestyle, but putting that first ahead of your relationships can destroy things fast."
�Pamela Corkey

http://sandradodd.com/priorities

=========

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>> -=-What priorities can mess up unschooling
> when they come first? -=-
>
> discipline
> obedience
> competitive academics
> competitive sports (especially if the parents are pushing it)
> Japanese home decorating (too sparse a house)
> politics/cynicism/activism
>
> There are surely others.


Specific parenting/communication strategies! Like Non-violent communication (NVC), or consensus processing. When sticking to a particular format for problem solving becomes more important than real people with real needs. Somewhat ironically, the NVC, consensus, and non-coercion folks seem to be the most likely to try to talk their kids into submission, explaining and explaining and explaining until the kids give in (if they're lucky).

---Meredith

Pam Sorooshian

Too much concern about housework
Parents expecting too much "adult time"

-pam

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> Quoting a list I started earlier, and I'll bring another list from
> elsewhere:
>
>
> -=-What priorities can mess up unschooling
> when they come first? -=-
>
> discipline
> obedience
> competitive academics
> competitive sports (especially if the parents are pushing it)
> Japanese home decorating (too sparse a house)
> politics/cynicism/activism
>
> There are surely others.
>
> ================================
>
> From a chat on October 8, 2010; Pamela Corkey started the list and others
> contributed:
> Example of priorities than can hamper unschooling:
>
> Having control over your household
> Impressing the neighbors
> Money
> Bragging rights
> Extreme dietary restrictions
> Anti-"violence"
> "Protecting kids from themselves"
> Career
> Clean and tidy house; everything in its place
> Fitness and health
> Quiet; discouragement of enthusiasm
> Aiming for "age-appropriate capability"
> Raising "independent" children
> Wealthy suburban "lifestyle"
> Organic eco-conscious "lifestyle"
> "Everyone has a lifestyle, but putting that first ahead of your
> relationships can destroy things fast."
> 猶amela Corkey
>
> http://sandradodd.com/priorities
>
> =========
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Catherine Forest

Thank you Sandra for your answer. This is making me realize a lot of things.

You asked me to explain this further:
-=-and since she is very little she is looking for her twin... –=-

It seems like Mathilde is looking for that unique relationship she sees her sister having. But yes, maybe it is me that is making that up. It’s totally possible. Mathilde was a totally happy child until she got sick with chicken pox complications at 18 months (pretty traumatizing hospital experience, I wasn’t there, only her dad was) and I stopped breastfeeding her pretty much around that time (mostly her decision since we were quite separated at the time because she had to go to the hospital every 6-8 hours to get antibiotics through IV, I was home with the twins and JF was with her at the hospital). Anyways, it all started around this time. She kind of became aware of her sisters special bond and was trying to separate them (still does to this day... she promises stuff to one of them – money, a toy, etc. – in exchange for twinship). She is VERY fond of men, even since she was 3... She would follow the guy that was building our barn everywhere, then the guy who was caring for the neighbors’ horses. It’s like she wants to be loved so badly...

And I hear what you are saying: Yes, I probably do not listen to her as well as I could. I am sure I can do better and I will try my best. I can always do better. What you make me realize is that I get stuck trying to understand why she is acting like this and feeling sorry for herself and myself and not even seeing how I can be creative and make the situation better for her... like in the pillow situation.

So what you are saying is that if/when she pinches me, I need to stop talking and just stop her. Is that what you are saying?

Thank you all a lot for your insights. It is very helpful.

Catherine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catherinemforest

Schuyler,

Your words have been with me all day today and it made such a huge difference in my relationship with Mathilde. I've played connexion games with her today, held her even more and saw things from her perspective more. You really have helped me realize that I forget how small she is and how much I expect of her. I focused how making our day fun. And it worked. And this is really all that matter.

Thank you so much for your wise and compassionate words. I will re-read them often!

Catherine

Sandra Dodd

-=-So what you are saying is that if/when she pinches me, I need to stop talking and just stop her. Is that what you are saying?-=-

I hope you're not going to do anything just because it's what you thought I said to do.

I hope whatever you do will be the better choices of two things you've considered.
If you don't think before you act, you will have acted thoughtlessly.

If you're talking and she's pinching, maybe she's saying more clearly than I ever could that you're talking too much. :-)
Many parents talk too much.

Save your words for the important stuff!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"Catherine Forest" <cforest@...> wrote:
>She is VERY fond of men, even since she was 3... She would follow the guy that was building our barn everywhere, then the guy who was caring for the neighbors’ horses. It’s like she wants to be loved so badly...
*****************

Or maybe she just likes men - some kids do, girls as well as boys. Men are fascinating. They're big and interesting and smell good. They aren't moms. They have big voices and can be very physical in ways moms aren't and have special skills moms don't (necessarily).

Does she have friends who are boys? She might like some. Does she have friends of her own outside of the family, for that matter? That in and of itself might help. You're focusing on "twins" but maybe it's more a "best friend" thing - both her sisters have a best friend, but she doesn't. So help her find some friends all her own.

> So what you are saying is that if/when she pinches me, I need to stop talking and just stop her. Is that what you are saying?
***************

Clear and direct is generally better than "blah blah blah, my feelings, blah blah."

I think sometimes parents new to unschooling worry that a straightforward "don't do that!" or even "hey, knock it off, that hurts" is somehow like setting an arbitrary rule. It's not, it's giving valuable information! Too many don'ts can become arbitrary, but in an environment where you're mostly working to help kids get what they want, a simple "no" is much more meaningful.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-Clear and direct is generally better than "blah blah blah, my feelings, blah blah." -=-

Meredith wrote that and it's worth repeating.

Bill Cosby, in a comedy routine called Chicken Heart talks about the difference between the way his mom talked to him and the way his dad did. It's generally an example of parenting from the late 1940's and it's not unschooling at all, but it was pretty funny back in the day when we were more used to parents making rules and calling kids idiots. (Most people my age had seen much worse.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhwF2d8QyvU has a sound file (part one of two, but part one is where he describes how his mom goes on and on and on.

Sandra






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Catherine Forest

Yes, that’s the thing with friends. We have said that for a long time: she would enjoy a best friend. We are traveling right now (currently in Costa Rica) and it is very hard to mingle with local kids. Yesterday at the beach a little girl wanted to play with her but she kept talking with her baby voice and climbing all over her dad in the sea... I asked her if she wanted me to go with her to play with the little girl (she was building a castle alone), but she didn’t... I remember how hard it is to connect with new friends at first.

Back at home, it is a bit similar. When someone shows interest to her, she starts being annoying, hitting them, etc. and it always ends up that they (the friends) team up with the twins against Mathilde... And it feels like she has taken up that role now... I don’t really know how to help her out...

Meredith, you are totally right about men. I realize that I have been assuming a lot of stuff, based on my on guilt (she was not a planned child and was supposed to be aborted... but since we lived up North and there was only 2 abortions per week, I had to wait 3 months... which obviously was not an option. So we decided to welcome her and obviously are super happy we did, but there was a lot of fear involved since I almost died giving birth to the twins...).

I will remember what you say about the direct answer (giving information). It is very true that we often assume that it is better to state our feelings and talk them out of their actions, but it is not, most of the time, at least for little children...

Thanks a lot,

Catherine

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