Unschooling ourselves
bellumswife77
I always read posts about math and unschoolers and find them interesting. Math was always a struggle for me. My Dad was military and we had several moves when I was in elementary school. I missed large chunks of lessons, struggles with multiplication (finally figured that out as an adult) and never GOT fractions and decimals beyond the basics. I remember being bewildered as a child when my parents would take away my tv, send me to my room with a multiplication chart and tell me to "learn to multiply!" . I was so sad, because I felt so misunderstood. I really didn't understand it! I started getting nervous about math and numbers and remember thinking for the first time that I was stupid. My daughter who is 12 enjoys math, after not "getting it" and in spite of also having discalculia LIKES math. She asked me to help her with decimals and is working through Keys to Decimals. I also got Keys to Fractions-for myself. And am excited to finally be figuring it out! Because of my struggles with math it is also important to me that my children not feel intimidated by math. I try to make my home "math friendly," with games and puzzles for the children, just as I buy good literature. Unschooling to me is.so wonderful and exciting because I finally have the time and inspiration, not being bogged down with homeschooling, to continue educating myself. And as *I* continue to learn my children are likewise encouraged to find their own interests to explore.
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
Sandra Dodd
-=-. My daughter who is 12 enjoys math, after not "getting it" and in spite of also having discalculia LIKES math. She asked me to help her with decimals and is working through Keys to Decimals. I also got Keys to Fractions-for myself. And am excited to finally be figuring it out! -=-
If you're both having fun, that's nice.
If you're doing it for fun, that's sweet.
If you're doing it because you thought she needed to "get it" and because you were told or decided that she "had discalulia," then it's probably not going to lead you toward a better understanding of unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/math/unerzogen might have ideas that would help you relax.
Sandra
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If you're both having fun, that's nice.
If you're doing it for fun, that's sweet.
If you're doing it because you thought she needed to "get it" and because you were told or decided that she "had discalulia," then it's probably not going to lead you toward a better understanding of unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/math/unerzogen might have ideas that would help you relax.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 23, 2012, at 6:08 AM, bellumswife77 wrote:
It's unfortunate that schools lead people to believe that the school approach to math -- solving equations -- *is* math.
Since you've had a lifetime of experience living with fractions, the Keys To could be helping you connect dots you didn't realize were there between real live fractions and notation.
But without that lifetime of experience, what's being learned from the curriculum isn't the same as what gets learned by using fractions and decimals in real life. The Keys To curriculum is halfway between school curriculum and real life. Which for schools is good! But for unschoolers it means it's halfway to school math and further from real life math.
If she can do numbers now, then the diagnosis of dyscalculia was unnecessarily upsetting and really only meant she wasn't developmentally ready to do math when the schools wanted to teach it.
Whether kids have dyslexia or not, when they're given the opportunity to read when they're ready, they learn to read when they're ready. Same with math. (Though some kids will be better at it than others. Just as some are better at shooting baskets, writing, and talking to people.)
Joyce
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> I started getting nervous about math and numbers and remember thinking for the first time that I was stupid.That's cool that you're figuring it out and feeling more comfortable.
> I also got Keys to Fractions-for myself. And am excited to finally be figuring it out!
It's unfortunate that schools lead people to believe that the school approach to math -- solving equations -- *is* math.
Since you've had a lifetime of experience living with fractions, the Keys To could be helping you connect dots you didn't realize were there between real live fractions and notation.
But without that lifetime of experience, what's being learned from the curriculum isn't the same as what gets learned by using fractions and decimals in real life. The Keys To curriculum is halfway between school curriculum and real life. Which for schools is good! But for unschoolers it means it's halfway to school math and further from real life math.
> My daughter who is 12 enjoys math, after not "getting it" andWas she in school before? Is that where she got the idea she couldn't get math? And that she had dyscalculia?
> in spite of also having discalculia LIKES math. She asked me
> to help her with decimals and is working through Keys to Decimals.
If she can do numbers now, then the diagnosis of dyscalculia was unnecessarily upsetting and really only meant she wasn't developmentally ready to do math when the schools wanted to teach it.
Whether kids have dyslexia or not, when they're given the opportunity to read when they're ready, they learn to read when they're ready. Same with math. (Though some kids will be better at it than others. Just as some are better at shooting baskets, writing, and talking to people.)
Joyce
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Pam Sorooshian
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
none of what might be the good part in some schools.
It is nothing but notation and how to do algorithms --- no explanations of
why or when. There is no context at all - an extreme version of what
Sandra's husband pointed out - they are giving you a coded answer to a
problem without ever telling you anything about the problem. All you're
doing when you do math like that is working out the code to some unknown
problem.
At least when my oldest was in school, they did hands-on activities with
manipulatives - it wasn't entirely memorization. For example, in second
grade they had a little luncheon party in the classroom. They set 6 tables
with the same number of places at each table. They talked about how many
plates and cups they'd need at each table and how many total - the point
was to build up a sense of what multiplication meant. For example, they
might be able to put 5 plates at each table. The teacher often asked kids
if they could think of other ways to figure something out. They could put
plates out on each table and count them all. They could pretend there were
plates out and count the empty spaces. They could set one table and then
add that many plates up 6 times (5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5). And
then she'd point out that that was the same as multiplying 6 times 5.
This kind of experience will occur naturally in life. We don't have to make
up pretend luncheons. Multiplication is convenient - that's why it was
invented! And the convenience of it will become apparent naturally.
Doing the "Keys to" workbooks won't help kids develop conceptual
understanding at all and CAN work against it. Sometimes people think they
"know" something and they never again really think about it. How many of
you "know" that you divide a fraction by another fraction by inverting the
second fraction and multiplying them? How many of you have thought about
that since you memorized it sometime in elementary school? How many of you
could explain when to use it and why it works? Not many! That's because you
thought you "know" all about multiplying fractions when all you'd done is
memorize a trick (and had any curiosity about mathematical concepts drained
out of you because of other aspects of math education).
-pam
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> The Keys To curriculum is halfway between school curriculum and real life.Ya think? I think it is the most boring part of school math with absolutely
none of what might be the good part in some schools.
It is nothing but notation and how to do algorithms --- no explanations of
why or when. There is no context at all - an extreme version of what
Sandra's husband pointed out - they are giving you a coded answer to a
problem without ever telling you anything about the problem. All you're
doing when you do math like that is working out the code to some unknown
problem.
At least when my oldest was in school, they did hands-on activities with
manipulatives - it wasn't entirely memorization. For example, in second
grade they had a little luncheon party in the classroom. They set 6 tables
with the same number of places at each table. They talked about how many
plates and cups they'd need at each table and how many total - the point
was to build up a sense of what multiplication meant. For example, they
might be able to put 5 plates at each table. The teacher often asked kids
if they could think of other ways to figure something out. They could put
plates out on each table and count them all. They could pretend there were
plates out and count the empty spaces. They could set one table and then
add that many plates up 6 times (5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5 plus 5). And
then she'd point out that that was the same as multiplying 6 times 5.
This kind of experience will occur naturally in life. We don't have to make
up pretend luncheons. Multiplication is convenient - that's why it was
invented! And the convenience of it will become apparent naturally.
Doing the "Keys to" workbooks won't help kids develop conceptual
understanding at all and CAN work against it. Sometimes people think they
"know" something and they never again really think about it. How many of
you "know" that you divide a fraction by another fraction by inverting the
second fraction and multiplying them? How many of you have thought about
that since you memorized it sometime in elementary school? How many of you
could explain when to use it and why it works? Not many! That's because you
thought you "know" all about multiplying fractions when all you'd done is
memorize a trick (and had any curiosity about mathematical concepts drained
out of you because of other aspects of math education).
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 23, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
I don't recall any interesting math that Kat brought home from her 2 months in 2nd grade so I was comparing it to that. In Massachusetts they start doing assessment testing in 3rd grade so my guess is there isn't much room for fun math.
But yes, you're right, it was all notation. Kat had zero interest in them.
Joyce
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> Ya think? I think it is the most boring part of school math with absolutelyI guess it's been way too long since I saw it! I recall there were some connections they were trying to show between adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing. And they came at it from several different directions.
> none of what might be the good part in some schools.
I don't recall any interesting math that Kat brought home from her 2 months in 2nd grade so I was comparing it to that. In Massachusetts they start doing assessment testing in 3rd grade so my guess is there isn't much room for fun math.
But yes, you're right, it was all notation. Kat had zero interest in them.
Joyce
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