Racial Hatred problem
Sandra Dodd
I have permission to post this and the mom says it didn't need to be anonymous.
Hi Sandra,
I am new to the list and usually read and learn. I've not seen anything about what my question is however, if you have a link to help I'll read it.
My question is this, how do I help my 13 y/o son handle a situation where he is being called a nigger by a 16 y/o male? He has been going to an afterschool program at a fitness center by our house where kids play video games and do athletic activities for 8 days. For 6 of theses days he has been called a nigger by this boy. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today. The boy is older (to me only 3 yrs but in kid world that's a lot) and he is considerably taller. My first reaction, all bets are off when it comes to my kids. I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. Yet, I do have time before he goes tomorrow to calm down and think it through in a way that will help my son. If you think this appropriate to be posted to the list I have no problem with it. I want sure. I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.
Thank You~ Lesa
Hi Sandra,
I am new to the list and usually read and learn. I've not seen anything about what my question is however, if you have a link to help I'll read it.
My question is this, how do I help my 13 y/o son handle a situation where he is being called a nigger by a 16 y/o male? He has been going to an afterschool program at a fitness center by our house where kids play video games and do athletic activities for 8 days. For 6 of theses days he has been called a nigger by this boy. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today. The boy is older (to me only 3 yrs but in kid world that's a lot) and he is considerably taller. My first reaction, all bets are off when it comes to my kids. I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. Yet, I do have time before he goes tomorrow to calm down and think it through in a way that will help my son. If you think this appropriate to be posted to the list I have no problem with it. I want sure. I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.
Thank You~ Lesa
Sandra Dodd
-=- He has been going to an afterschool program at a fitness center by our house where kids play video games and do athletic activities for 8 days-=-
My first thought was that any afterschool program is not only full of schoolkids, but schoolkids at the end of a long day. It's not likely to be a peaceful environment for anyone.
But if that action would be illegal in an adult, maybe you could state that. Find out what the policies of the center are about harrassment, and maybe they will remove that boy from the program. But there's only one or two days left, right?
-=-. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today.-=-
"For whatever reason" sounds like the same reason millions of people don't respond to bullies. The fear of being grabbed and getting more abuse.
-=- I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. -=-
I would do it with the director of the program there. Maybe today. Maybe ask the director to keep that other boy in the office until the parents come and you can speak with them. I think that's what I would do.
-=I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.-=-
I don't think unschooling philosophy is designed to cover all aspects of school (and an afterschool program is an extension of school; it's "extracurricular" stuff). You could think of not doing something your son doesn't want, but as a mother I would have a hard time standing by while my child took more abuse. Yet much of the sports world and military training and fraternities involve systemic abuse and belittling (and worse) and mothers' sons voluntarily participate in those things all the time.
I think if my child were willing not to return, I would write a letter to the director with a copy to the parents of that boy, say he wasn't coming back, and state clearly why. I would tell them they need to take better care of what's going on with kids there, and have better supervision.
Don't be surprised if they pull the "sensitive homeschooler" move on you.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My first thought was that any afterschool program is not only full of schoolkids, but schoolkids at the end of a long day. It's not likely to be a peaceful environment for anyone.
But if that action would be illegal in an adult, maybe you could state that. Find out what the policies of the center are about harrassment, and maybe they will remove that boy from the program. But there's only one or two days left, right?
-=-. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today.-=-
"For whatever reason" sounds like the same reason millions of people don't respond to bullies. The fear of being grabbed and getting more abuse.
-=- I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. -=-
I would do it with the director of the program there. Maybe today. Maybe ask the director to keep that other boy in the office until the parents come and you can speak with them. I think that's what I would do.
-=I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.-=-
I don't think unschooling philosophy is designed to cover all aspects of school (and an afterschool program is an extension of school; it's "extracurricular" stuff). You could think of not doing something your son doesn't want, but as a mother I would have a hard time standing by while my child took more abuse. Yet much of the sports world and military training and fraternities involve systemic abuse and belittling (and worse) and mothers' sons voluntarily participate in those things all the time.
I think if my child were willing not to return, I would write a letter to the director with a copy to the parents of that boy, say he wasn't coming back, and state clearly why. I would tell them they need to take better care of what's going on with kids there, and have better supervision.
Don't be surprised if they pull the "sensitive homeschooler" move on you.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
I would get in touch with the leader or director before the next class and ask to speak with him or her before class. If your son was willing to be there, I would encourage him. If not, I would arrange to talk while he was occupied. At that meeting, I would encourage the organization to have anti-hate literature posted. Here is an example of posters I have seen around our community:
http://bikeithaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/United-Against-Hate-poster-PDF.pdf
I think you can print that one as an example. I would also ask that it be written clearly in the class agreement that bullying and actions of hate of any sort will not be tolerated. If the people in charge of the program were not open to discussing these changes, I would write a letter to he editor of the local paper, and I would let the organization know I was doing so.
I know it is not at all your responsibility to educate bullies or racists, but I do believe it would help your son feel empowered and not victimized to see you work toward a resolution that allows him to feel safe in his community. I would also ask my son if he wanted me to stay present during the class. If so, I would. If not, I would ask an instructor to keep a closer eye on the situation.
http://bikeithaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/United-Against-Hate-poster-PDF.pdf
I think you can print that one as an example. I would also ask that it be written clearly in the class agreement that bullying and actions of hate of any sort will not be tolerated. If the people in charge of the program were not open to discussing these changes, I would write a letter to he editor of the local paper, and I would let the organization know I was doing so.
I know it is not at all your responsibility to educate bullies or racists, but I do believe it would help your son feel empowered and not victimized to see you work toward a resolution that allows him to feel safe in his community. I would also ask my son if he wanted me to stay present during the class. If so, I would. If not, I would ask an instructor to keep a closer eye on the situation.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I have permission to post this and the mom says it didn't need to be anonymous.
>
> Hi Sandra,
>
> I am new to the list and usually read and learn. I've not seen anything about what my question is however, if you have a link to help I'll read it.
>
> My question is this, how do I help my 13 y/o son handle a situation where he is being called a nigger by a 16 y/o male? He has been going to an afterschool program at a fitness center by our house where kids play video games and do athletic activities for 8 days. For 6 of theses days he has been called a nigger by this boy. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today. The boy is older (to me only 3 yrs but in kid world that's a lot) and he is considerably taller. My first reaction, all bets are off when it comes to my kids. I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. Yet, I do have time before he goes tomorrow to calm down and think it through in a way that will help my son. If you think this appropriate to be posted to the list I have no problem with it. I want sure. I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.
>
> Thank You~ Lesa
>
Sandra Dodd
-= If the people in charge of the program were not open to discussing these changes, I would write a letter to he editor of the local paper, and I would let the organization know I was doing so. -=-
Good idea.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good idea.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Call ahead and talk to someone. The leader or that person's supervisor. Let them know your son is being bullied and how - ask your son if he wants names named the first time, or if he'd rather just have a leader "lurk" in his vicinity to make sure nothing like this happens again.
Sandra's thoughts about talking in person to the staff and parents of the other boy are good, too, but I'd call the place before your son ever goes back and try to get something started in advance.
---Meredith
>When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger.**************
Call ahead and talk to someone. The leader or that person's supervisor. Let them know your son is being bullied and how - ask your son if he wants names named the first time, or if he'd rather just have a leader "lurk" in his vicinity to make sure nothing like this happens again.
Sandra's thoughts about talking in person to the staff and parents of the other boy are good, too, but I'd call the place before your son ever goes back and try to get something started in advance.
---Meredith
Lesa Owens
I was thinking in terms of unschooling in that I should be able to help learn how to handle, not just this type of situation but any in relation to bullies. The norm is leave him alone. Let him handle it. I was actually given that advice from a man. I didn't want to jump in and pull him out without helping him see other options if there were any. I couldn't come up with choices to present him with being that I've never had to deal with it in my own life nor that of my other two children (30,23). I also didn't think leaving him in after I spoke to everyone and the boy is left to stay in would be good because it could get worse. The leaders are 20 somethings who go to the local university (we live in a college town) and look up from doing homework or playing on the computer ocassionally to tell the kids to stop cussing. They don't get involved with what the kids are playing though they are supposed to based on their literature they give out.
--- In AlwaysLearning@..., Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- He has been going to an afterschool program at a fitness center by our house where kids play video games and do athletic activities for 8 days-=-
>
> My first thought was that any afterschool program is not only full of schoolkids, but schoolkids at the end of a long day. It's not likely to be a peaceful environment for anyone.
>
> But if that action would be illegal in an adult, maybe you could state that. Find out what the policies of the center are about harrassment, and maybe they will remove that boy from the program. But there's only one or two days left, right?
>
> -=-. When he went to tell one of the leaders, the boy grabbed him and said come back here nigger. For whatever reason my son did not say anything to this boy and only just told me today.-=-
>
> "For whatever reason" sounds like the same reason millions of people don't respond to bullies. The fear of being grabbed and getting more abuse.
>
> -=- I want to go and have it out with his parents in front of him and pull my son out as well as tell the parents of the other boy he calls this name to. -=-
>
> I would do it with the director of the program there. Maybe today. Maybe ask the director to keep that other boy in the office until the parents come and you can speak with them. I think that's what I would do.
>
> -=I'd really like to know how to handle this for him based on an unschooling philosophy.-=-
>
> I don't think unschooling philosophy is designed to cover all aspects of school (and an afterschool program is an extension of school; it's "extracurricular" stuff). You could think of not doing something your son doesn't want, but as a mother I would have a hard time standing by while my child took more abuse. Yet much of the sports world and military training and fraternities involve systemic abuse and belittling (and worse) and mothers' sons voluntarily participate in those things all the time.
>
> I think if my child were willing not to return, I would write a letter to the director with a copy to the parents of that boy, say he wasn't coming back, and state clearly why. I would tell them they need to take better care of what's going on with kids there, and have better supervision.
>
> Don't be surprised if they pull the "sensitive homeschooler" move on you.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Deb Lewis
Let your son know it’s ok to say something directly to the other kid. Sometimes nice people are too polite to speak up when rude people are being awful. Your son might not want to, but let him know it’s not rude to tell rude people to stop. It probably won’t change the behavior of the other kid but it may help your son feel less victimized to say, “You’re insulting me and I want you to stop. “
And I would talk directly to the other kid, and to the person in charge, at the same time so as to avoid being accused of threatening or intimidating the other child. If you son is willing to be there too it might benefit him to see how other people handle such things.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And I would talk directly to the other kid, and to the person in charge, at the same time so as to avoid being accused of threatening or intimidating the other child. If you son is willing to be there too it might benefit him to see how other people handle such things.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was thinking in terms of unschooling in that I should be able to help learn how to handle, not just this type of situation but any in relation to bullies.-=-
That would be true whether he was unschooled or not.
-=- The norm is leave him alone. Let him handle it. I was actually given that advice from a man. -=-
That doesn't make it the norm, or good advice.
Unschooling is more than just ignoring the norm.
Does your son WANT to be in that after school program? Can you find him other sports outlets and let him play video games at home? That's the more-to-the-unschooling angle to take.
-=-The leaders are 20 somethings who go to the local university (we live in a college town) and look up from doing homework or playing on the computer ocassionally to tell the kids to stop cussing. They don't get involved with what the kids are playing though they are supposed to based on their literature they give out.
-=-
Then complain about that, strongly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That would be true whether he was unschooled or not.
-=- The norm is leave him alone. Let him handle it. I was actually given that advice from a man. -=-
That doesn't make it the norm, or good advice.
Unschooling is more than just ignoring the norm.
Does your son WANT to be in that after school program? Can you find him other sports outlets and let him play video games at home? That's the more-to-the-unschooling angle to take.
-=-The leaders are 20 somethings who go to the local university (we live in a college town) and look up from doing homework or playing on the computer ocassionally to tell the kids to stop cussing. They don't get involved with what the kids are playing though they are supposed to based on their literature they give out.
-=-
Then complain about that, strongly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I'd call the place before your son ever goes back and try to get something started in advance. -=-
This is a good point. But if the volunteers watch and don't see it happen, it will be (for that other boy) as though it didn't happen. He doesn't get caught or called on it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a good point. But if the volunteers watch and don't see it happen, it will be (for that other boy) as though it didn't happen. He doesn't get caught or called on it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>I remember being told that I should put my daughter in school so she'd
> I was thinking in terms of unschooling in that I should be able to
> help learn how to handle, not just this type of situation but any
> in relation to bullies. The norm is leave him alone. Let him handle
> it.
learn to deal with bullies. I thought just the opposite - I was
keeping her away from that environment, helping her learn what kind
and appropriate behavior is. She'll be ready to deal with it when
she's older.
In the meantime, some aggressive behavior would occur in a group
setting, even among unschoolers. Moms or dads were always there to
intervene and help the kids sort things out. Parents would be present
to stop it in its tracks.
> I didn't want to jump in and pull him out without helping him seeCan you be there, at the program? I think that your presence would
> other options if there were any.
help your son see that this is unacceptable behavior, that you're on
his side. He'd be learning that you're his partner. That's
unschooling :-)
> I couldn't come up with choices to present him with being that I'veSometimes it takes an adult to stand up to this kind of thing. Giving
> never had to deal with it in my own life nor that of my other two
> children (30,23).
him choices for him to use *is* "letting him handle it".
> I also didn't think leaving him in after I spoke to everyone and theTime to step in and stop it. That might not be the only nasty behavior
> boy is left to stay in would be good because it could get worse. The
> leaders are 20 somethings who go to the local university (we live in
> a college town) and look up from doing homework or playing on the
> computer ocassionally to tell the kids to stop cussing. They don't
> get involved with what the kids are playing though they are supposed
> to based on their literature they give out.
going on. And I'll bet there aren't many parents hanging out to see it.
Robin B.
bellumswife77
I am a minority, which means I have no patience for this type of thing. *at all*. Press charges against the teenager (legal adult!!!) for harassment and I believe you can press charges for assault based on how he grabbed him. Perhaps this will turn the young derelicts life around.
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
Deb Lewis
*** Press charges against the teenager (legal adult!!!) for harassment and I believe you can press charges for assault based on how he grabbed him. Perhaps this will turn the young derelicts life around.*
This is harsh. We don’t know anything at all about the kid. He’s very young. Maybe he’s misguided and thinks he’s being cool or funny when he uses that word. Maybe he doesn’t have much guidance or help from parents. Maybe he doesn’t have very nice parents. Making his life even more miserable will probably not have positive benefits for him or the rest of society.
He deserves what any other person deserves. To be addressed directly about his comments and actions and to be asked to stop. What happens after that, I hope, takes ordinary, rational steps toward solving the problem, without jumping straight to assault charges for a sixteen year old.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is harsh. We don’t know anything at all about the kid. He’s very young. Maybe he’s misguided and thinks he’s being cool or funny when he uses that word. Maybe he doesn’t have much guidance or help from parents. Maybe he doesn’t have very nice parents. Making his life even more miserable will probably not have positive benefits for him or the rest of society.
He deserves what any other person deserves. To be addressed directly about his comments and actions and to be asked to stop. What happens after that, I hope, takes ordinary, rational steps toward solving the problem, without jumping straight to assault charges for a sixteen year old.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa Owens
My son really wants to stay in the program because all of the kids on our block go to school and don't get off the bus until 3:30 and then have homework and housework to do so they usually don't come out until Saturday and Sunday. Going to the afterschool program enables him to see kids everyday 4-5 days a week.
I spoke with the director who said they have a zero tolerance policy. She asked that I let her speak with the parents and the boy. She also told the leader in the room that day to speak to the boy. While I filled out the incident report, my son went into the room. He told the boy that he didn't appreciate being called that name and told on him. The boy laughed and said, I didn't say that." Then he said it doesn't matter because his parents weren't going to say anything anyway. He felt better because he said something and stood up to this *16* y/o.
My son likes Sandra's idea of trying to find something else he can do. They have a martial arts class 2 days a week. Its only an hour per session but he's interested. The local library just started a teen craft program and an anime club once a month so we'll add those.
We appreciate everyones advice. It really helped.
Thanks~ Lesa & Jalen
I spoke with the director who said they have a zero tolerance policy. She asked that I let her speak with the parents and the boy. She also told the leader in the room that day to speak to the boy. While I filled out the incident report, my son went into the room. He told the boy that he didn't appreciate being called that name and told on him. The boy laughed and said, I didn't say that." Then he said it doesn't matter because his parents weren't going to say anything anyway. He felt better because he said something and stood up to this *16* y/o.
My son likes Sandra's idea of trying to find something else he can do. They have a martial arts class 2 days a week. Its only an hour per session but he's interested. The local library just started a teen craft program and an anime club once a month so we'll add those.
We appreciate everyones advice. It really helped.
Thanks~ Lesa & Jalen
--- In [email protected], "Deb Lewis" <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>
> Let your son know itâs ok to say something directly to the other kid. Sometimes nice people are too polite to speak up when rude people are being awful. Your son might not want to, but let him know itâs not rude to tell rude people to stop. It probably wonât change the behavior of the other kid but it may help your son feel less victimized to say, âYouâre insulting me and I want you to stop. â
>
> And I would talk directly to the other kid, and to the person in charge, at the same time so as to avoid being accused of threatening or intimidating the other child. If you son is willing to be there too it might benefit him to see how other people handle such things.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>