Dad's ideas... and talking to learn
Claire Darbaud
My husband watched a very depressing documentary last night called "my life
without a diploma". It was about young people who drop out of school
without a diploma. They interviewed 4 teenagers who where saying how lost
and anxious they felt and some were saying how badly they wanted to get
back into school. The documentary said that in France alone, schools kicks
goodbye 223 000 kids every year...
And then, my husband turned to me: you see what you are doing to our kids?
What?
I see what schools does to kids. If anything, last night's documentary
brings water to my mill and convinces me that I really don't want to risk
school with my children. I tried to explain: these kids on TV, they
actually went to school for at least 10 years! And that's what SCHOOL did
to them: it convinced them they were good for nothing, gave them no time to
explore life and find their passion(s), it killed all the sparkle in their
lives and eventually left them on the side of the road...
There was a touching scene with a yound man, meeting one of his "old"
teacher on the street (pardon my engligh, I don't mean old as in a big age,
I mean old as in the man had been his teacher several years before). The
teacher asked how the young man was doing and the young man explained his
struggle, life in a constant job search, 2 days contracts after 2 days
contracts... The teacher was almost in tears and said he was sorry that
school had so badly failed him.
I asked my husband, where did you see unschoolers in the documentary? How
can you take a doc about school's failures and use it as a proof that
unschooling will not work? He said: that's what happens when kids don't go
to school... He says he has seen a lot of kids who never went to school in
Madagascar and they all end up on the street. I tried to explain we are not
in Madagascar and that the kids he refers too where not "unschooled", they
were working or begging from very early childhood and that unschooled kids
get a lot of free time to learn and explore their passions and they thrive.
He said "only in the States, it can't work in France". I got Andre Stern's
book out (a 40 year old french man who was very happily unschooled and grew
up to be very successfull and wrote a book about it). He mumbled and turned
away.
I guess my main question is can unschooling when the dad is convinced it
will not? He doesn't even want to try to understand what it is I am doing
here. He says so: it doesn't fit my thinking, I don't want to know :-(
The reason we're still unschooling is that he will not force the kids to go
to school and they really don't want to go. And in his mind, that's nothing
to do with school being an unfriendly place: it's my fault!
When he was a child, he didn't want to go to school. He escaped from school
several times. I think he was about 4 or 5 when he last escaped and his dad
locked him in a dark room untill he agreed to go and promised he wouldn't
escape anymore. :-(
I started a private blog exploring my kid's learning daily. He doesn't want
to read it.
Last night, I told him that I am getting more convinced, day after day of
watching how much they learn, that unschooling is the best choice. I said
when they grow up to be successfull and thiving, I'll share the credit
(thanks Sandra for that one, I love it). He almost had tears in his eyes
and said "I hope you're right, and you can keep the credit".
...
HEY... As I was writing, it just dawned on me! I am going to write to Andre
Stern and ask him if he would agree to talk to my husband. Guy to guy...!!
...
I am getting to the end of this email and it strikes me how writing it
actually helped me. Wording my problem brings so much solution. In a talk
about his "turning learning right side up" book, Daniel Greenberg explains
that the first way people learn is by talking. And then I read a book
about a young woman who was born completely deaf and had no access to
language until she discovered sign language when she was 7. She describes
how confused she was in her childhood. Not having words for things meant
she had no way to "arrange them" in her thinking. And in fact she couldn't
really "think" let alone communicate before she had a language and it was
very scary and miserable.
In this email I just worded out my stuff... and it's so much clearer now.
Waohhh! I don't feel I need the list's advice anymore. And yet I would love
a discusion about how talking, or writing (as opposed to listening or
gathering info) is central to learning. It feels like it's like accessing
knowledge from within. I am very intrigued.
Have some of you had this experience of writing an email to a list and by
the time you're done writing, you've got your answer and don't need to send
the email?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
without a diploma". It was about young people who drop out of school
without a diploma. They interviewed 4 teenagers who where saying how lost
and anxious they felt and some were saying how badly they wanted to get
back into school. The documentary said that in France alone, schools kicks
goodbye 223 000 kids every year...
And then, my husband turned to me: you see what you are doing to our kids?
What?
I see what schools does to kids. If anything, last night's documentary
brings water to my mill and convinces me that I really don't want to risk
school with my children. I tried to explain: these kids on TV, they
actually went to school for at least 10 years! And that's what SCHOOL did
to them: it convinced them they were good for nothing, gave them no time to
explore life and find their passion(s), it killed all the sparkle in their
lives and eventually left them on the side of the road...
There was a touching scene with a yound man, meeting one of his "old"
teacher on the street (pardon my engligh, I don't mean old as in a big age,
I mean old as in the man had been his teacher several years before). The
teacher asked how the young man was doing and the young man explained his
struggle, life in a constant job search, 2 days contracts after 2 days
contracts... The teacher was almost in tears and said he was sorry that
school had so badly failed him.
I asked my husband, where did you see unschoolers in the documentary? How
can you take a doc about school's failures and use it as a proof that
unschooling will not work? He said: that's what happens when kids don't go
to school... He says he has seen a lot of kids who never went to school in
Madagascar and they all end up on the street. I tried to explain we are not
in Madagascar and that the kids he refers too where not "unschooled", they
were working or begging from very early childhood and that unschooled kids
get a lot of free time to learn and explore their passions and they thrive.
He said "only in the States, it can't work in France". I got Andre Stern's
book out (a 40 year old french man who was very happily unschooled and grew
up to be very successfull and wrote a book about it). He mumbled and turned
away.
I guess my main question is can unschooling when the dad is convinced it
will not? He doesn't even want to try to understand what it is I am doing
here. He says so: it doesn't fit my thinking, I don't want to know :-(
The reason we're still unschooling is that he will not force the kids to go
to school and they really don't want to go. And in his mind, that's nothing
to do with school being an unfriendly place: it's my fault!
When he was a child, he didn't want to go to school. He escaped from school
several times. I think he was about 4 or 5 when he last escaped and his dad
locked him in a dark room untill he agreed to go and promised he wouldn't
escape anymore. :-(
I started a private blog exploring my kid's learning daily. He doesn't want
to read it.
Last night, I told him that I am getting more convinced, day after day of
watching how much they learn, that unschooling is the best choice. I said
when they grow up to be successfull and thiving, I'll share the credit
(thanks Sandra for that one, I love it). He almost had tears in his eyes
and said "I hope you're right, and you can keep the credit".
...
HEY... As I was writing, it just dawned on me! I am going to write to Andre
Stern and ask him if he would agree to talk to my husband. Guy to guy...!!
...
I am getting to the end of this email and it strikes me how writing it
actually helped me. Wording my problem brings so much solution. In a talk
about his "turning learning right side up" book, Daniel Greenberg explains
that the first way people learn is by talking. And then I read a book
about a young woman who was born completely deaf and had no access to
language until she discovered sign language when she was 7. She describes
how confused she was in her childhood. Not having words for things meant
she had no way to "arrange them" in her thinking. And in fact she couldn't
really "think" let alone communicate before she had a language and it was
very scary and miserable.
In this email I just worded out my stuff... and it's so much clearer now.
Waohhh! I don't feel I need the list's advice anymore. And yet I would love
a discusion about how talking, or writing (as opposed to listening or
gathering info) is central to learning. It feels like it's like accessing
knowledge from within. I am very intrigued.
Have some of you had this experience of writing an email to a list and by
the time you're done writing, you've got your answer and don't need to send
the email?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
> Last night, I told him that I am getting more convinced, day after day ofWhen I was young, it was believed by my parents that if they gave me too much of anything I would become spoiled and ultimately amount to nothing much. So, they always held back. My dad never held my hand, never told me he loved me. My mom never cuddled with me, never told me I was too good at anything. As a result, I have always (until recently) lived in fear of spoiling somehow. Consequently, I have always (again, until recently) held back kindness to myself.
> watching how much they learn, that unschooling is the best choice. I said
> when they grow up to be successfull and thiving, I'll share the credit
> (thanks Sandra for that one, I love it). He almost had tears in his eyes
> and said "I hope you're right, and you can keep the credit".
My son was five or so, and I was laying with him one night. He loves to cuddle. That night, I chose to swap places with him. I chose to imagine that I was him, and that it was my mom cuddling with me like I had always wished for, but dared not ask. I felt my own warmth and love, and I filled up to the brim with it. To my delight, I didn't turn rotten! In fact, I turned more sweet. For a good while after, I did this whenever I met a need of Ethan's. As I pretended to be him, I let myself feel trusted, loved and supported in my needs. I also looked at myself through his eyes, and saw a trustworthy, loving and supportive mom. That was all very healing.
I can almost feel the tears in your husband's eyes. I was once convinced that we humans are inherently bad. Early on, I was often told that I was spoiling my son--that he would become lazy and selfish because I indulged him too much. Thankfully, I quietly ignored their warnings. He is only nine, but he is quickly becoming one of the most motivated, generous people I have had the good fortune to know. He has shown me the inherent goodness in people that shines brightest when they are trusted and supported. He has shown me the goodness in myself.
So I'm wondering...perhaps your husband needs to see and feel the goodness in himself through the eyes of you and your children. Maybe, give him lots of extra love. Point out all the good he brings to his family when he gives. Add those things to your blog. Maybe if he learns to trust himself again (without having to be locked in a closet) he will let go of his fear of ruin, and begin to trust his children more easily too.
Sandra Dodd
Karen, that was a beautiful post.
-=- Maybe if he learns to trust himself again (without having to be locked in a closet) he will let go of his fear of ruin, and begin to trust his children more easily too. -=-
Today at Just Add Light:
If we've been conditioned to believe that children are unworthy and inferior but we consciously step away from that place and see the wholeness in our children, then one of the easiest things to see is the lack of wholeness in ourselves. It can be frightening.
When we see the level of thoughtfulness and competence a small child can have when he hasn�t been belittled or discouraged or shushed, we can start to think that if we undo the discouraging, belittling and shushing voices inside of us, we might regenerate our own native thoughtfulness and competence.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2012/01/native-competence.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=- Maybe if he learns to trust himself again (without having to be locked in a closet) he will let go of his fear of ruin, and begin to trust his children more easily too. -=-
Today at Just Add Light:
If we've been conditioned to believe that children are unworthy and inferior but we consciously step away from that place and see the wholeness in our children, then one of the easiest things to see is the lack of wholeness in ourselves. It can be frightening.
When we see the level of thoughtfulness and competence a small child can have when he hasn�t been belittled or discouraged or shushed, we can start to think that if we undo the discouraging, belittling and shushing voices inside of us, we might regenerate our own native thoughtfulness and competence.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2012/01/native-competence.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
> HEY... As I was writing, it just dawned on me! I am going to write to AndreThere is a movie called Between the Folds:
> Stern and ask him if he would agree to talk to my husband. Guy to guy...!!
http://www.greenfusefilms.com/
It is a cool film about folding paper, but in it is a young man named Erik Demaine:
http://erikdemaine.org/
a Canadian unschooler who is now a professor at MIT, and who still works closely with his father who is a glass blower and artist. Perhaps your husband would find Erik's dedication to his passion interesting, as well as the strong bond between he and his father as a result of their chosen way of life.
My husband met Erik and his dad at MIT, and said he was taken with how inspired they were and how close. It might be good for your husband to see more inspirational stories. That is one that I can think of.