Deschooling competitive perfectionists
catfish_friend
Our family of competitive perfectionists (3 out of 4 of us are, anyway -- me, hubby and Ca) have been deschooling 2 months now.
I downloaded some iPhone apps for Ca (5.5) and Iz (2.7). Based on ratings and rave reviews, I got Teach Me Toddler and Teach Me Kindergarten. Maybe I should have skipped the apps with "Teach" in the title as they are pretty traditional with giving rewards for consecutive right answers (virtual stickers and coins). I thought the stickers and coins would be fun for my girls who like to collect both, but as I've watched Ca play this app, it seems she is focused more on getting coins than she is interested in learning or asking me questions (she gets stuck on the same adding and subtracting problems). Ca has a competitive and perfectionist streak and she is driven to play this app to get as many coins as possible and asks me to give her the answers.
I am fuzzy on how to proceed -- my girls are so excited to play with these apps, but it seems to me that if getting the rewards are what they are interested in, maybe I should find a game that fits their interest rather than an educational app that has a game-like appeal? I feel like the app is neither a very good learning tool nor a very good game.
Or, am I overthinking this? If my girls like the app, even if my girls are results-driven rather than learning-focused, they are having fun and learning some phonics and math somewhat, I think...
I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene? I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own but when it comes to learning how to read and add, I'm getting confused.
Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)
Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! Deschooling is hard -- even for someone who told one of her HS teachers that all I needed was my textbook and that going to class was not essential...and then I skipped out on a quarter to a third of my last year of HS!!!
Would love some guidance...
Happy New Year to the amazing families represented on this list, especially to the Always Learning veterans who share and give and share all year long!!!
Grateful as always,
Ceci
Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
I downloaded some iPhone apps for Ca (5.5) and Iz (2.7). Based on ratings and rave reviews, I got Teach Me Toddler and Teach Me Kindergarten. Maybe I should have skipped the apps with "Teach" in the title as they are pretty traditional with giving rewards for consecutive right answers (virtual stickers and coins). I thought the stickers and coins would be fun for my girls who like to collect both, but as I've watched Ca play this app, it seems she is focused more on getting coins than she is interested in learning or asking me questions (she gets stuck on the same adding and subtracting problems). Ca has a competitive and perfectionist streak and she is driven to play this app to get as many coins as possible and asks me to give her the answers.
I am fuzzy on how to proceed -- my girls are so excited to play with these apps, but it seems to me that if getting the rewards are what they are interested in, maybe I should find a game that fits their interest rather than an educational app that has a game-like appeal? I feel like the app is neither a very good learning tool nor a very good game.
Or, am I overthinking this? If my girls like the app, even if my girls are results-driven rather than learning-focused, they are having fun and learning some phonics and math somewhat, I think...
I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene? I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own but when it comes to learning how to read and add, I'm getting confused.
Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)
Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! Deschooling is hard -- even for someone who told one of her HS teachers that all I needed was my textbook and that going to class was not essential...and then I skipped out on a quarter to a third of my last year of HS!!!
Would love some guidance...
Happy New Year to the amazing families represented on this list, especially to the Always Learning veterans who share and give and share all year long!!!
Grateful as always,
Ceci
Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
Sandra Dodd
-=it seems to me that if getting the rewards are what they are interested in, maybe I should find a game that fits their interest rather than an educational app that has a game-like appeal? I feel like the app is neither a very good learning tool nor a very good game.-=-
If it's not any fun, they won't play with it. The fun they're having might (will probably) be different from the designer's vision for them. Good!!
-=-Or, am I overthinking this?-=-
Maybe not OVERthinking, but too narrowly thinking.
Give them the answers. What IS the purpose of those apps? What was your purpose in buying them.
When school is involved (and school is a competition) there is such a thing as cheating.
When learning is central, there is no such thing as cheating. However people learn they learn. By whatever means or tricks or games or explorations, it doesn't matter who helps or what they do in a non-standard way. Let learning be your purpose, and then you won't worry about whether it's okay to "give an answer."
-=Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)-=-
The clarity will increase and the fuzziness will recede. :-)
-=-I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene?-=-
Why would you "intervene" with learning?
Let them learn!
-=-I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own-=-
I'm guessing you did hold their hands, though, or provide things they could pull up on, and react pleasantly when they cruised along furniture or a railing. You modelled walking for them (by doing the natural walking around you were doing).
If you had not walked yourself, it might have been more difficult for them to walk.
If you had shown frustration or fear or disapproval of their beginning steps, it would have slowed them down, probably.
So do the things you want them to do, and accept their activities. Help them have access to what they want to explore.
-=-Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! -=-
You're distracting me just writing that. Whatever funding you're looking for and whatever classes you're talking about are very unlikely to make unschooling easier.
-=-Our family of competitive perfectionists (3 out of 4 of us are, anyway -- me, hubby and Ca) have been deschooling 2 months now.-=-
Channel your perfectionism into something besides your children, and into something besides your deschooling, I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If it's not any fun, they won't play with it. The fun they're having might (will probably) be different from the designer's vision for them. Good!!
-=-Or, am I overthinking this?-=-
Maybe not OVERthinking, but too narrowly thinking.
Give them the answers. What IS the purpose of those apps? What was your purpose in buying them.
When school is involved (and school is a competition) there is such a thing as cheating.
When learning is central, there is no such thing as cheating. However people learn they learn. By whatever means or tricks or games or explorations, it doesn't matter who helps or what they do in a non-standard way. Let learning be your purpose, and then you won't worry about whether it's okay to "give an answer."
-=Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)-=-
The clarity will increase and the fuzziness will recede. :-)
-=-I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene?-=-
Why would you "intervene" with learning?
Let them learn!
-=-I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own-=-
I'm guessing you did hold their hands, though, or provide things they could pull up on, and react pleasantly when they cruised along furniture or a railing. You modelled walking for them (by doing the natural walking around you were doing).
If you had not walked yourself, it might have been more difficult for them to walk.
If you had shown frustration or fear or disapproval of their beginning steps, it would have slowed them down, probably.
So do the things you want them to do, and accept their activities. Help them have access to what they want to explore.
-=-Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! -=-
You're distracting me just writing that. Whatever funding you're looking for and whatever classes you're talking about are very unlikely to make unschooling easier.
-=-Our family of competitive perfectionists (3 out of 4 of us are, anyway -- me, hubby and Ca) have been deschooling 2 months now.-=-
Channel your perfectionism into something besides your children, and into something besides your deschooling, I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 4, 2012, at 7:08 AM, catfish_friend wrote:
Forget results driven and learning focused. They sound schoolish and business like.
Where you went "wrong" was in looking for "games for math" and "games for reading" so you had preconceived ideas about how those should play out. If you look for things they enjoy, then when they enjoy them, you've succeeded.
If the games happen to revolve around reading or math or geography that's incidental. Better -- especially while you're still deschooling -- that they revolve around things they like, like animals or favorite characters.
And walking wasn't about getting from here to there so much as a cool physical skill they played with that happened to get from here to there.
Despite the hours and hours and hours that schools devote to math and reading, it doesn't take any where near that long when kids are picking up knowledge and skills as a side effect of exploring their interests. Kathryn learned most of her math from playing Mario Bros. video games. And she did just fine in the college math courses she took. Admittedly she does have a head for math, but seriously, math was learned by using it for real purposes not for the purposes of learning math.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Or, am I overthinking this? If my girls like the app, even ifIf your goal is for them to find things they enjoy, have you succeeded?
> my girls are results-driven rather than learning-focused,
> they are having fun and learning some phonics and math
> somewhat, I think...
Forget results driven and learning focused. They sound schoolish and business like.
Where you went "wrong" was in looking for "games for math" and "games for reading" so you had preconceived ideas about how those should play out. If you look for things they enjoy, then when they enjoy them, you've succeeded.
If the games happen to revolve around reading or math or geography that's incidental. Better -- especially while you're still deschooling -- that they revolve around things they like, like animals or favorite characters.
> I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when,When your kids learned to talk, they didn't talk about talking or focus on talking. The talking was a way to communicate about what they liked. Math and reading can -- should! :-) be like that too!
> how and why intervene? I gave my children time and space to
> learn to walk on their own but when it comes to learning how
> to read and add, I'm getting confused.
And walking wasn't about getting from here to there so much as a cool physical skill they played with that happened to get from here to there.
Despite the hours and hours and hours that schools devote to math and reading, it doesn't take any where near that long when kids are picking up knowledge and skills as a side effect of exploring their interests. Kathryn learned most of her math from playing Mario Bros. video games. And she did just fine in the college math courses she took. Admittedly she does have a head for math, but seriously, math was learned by using it for real purposes not for the purposes of learning math.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
Everything I would have said about the game/app has already been said but I wanted to offer a suggestion here, not just for you, but for anyone who lives in a place (Alaska, California and places in Canada come to mind) that offers homeschooling youth funding/government stipends when they sign up with an umbrella school.
---Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella
schools (for funding) for classes next fall! -----
That distraction will only increase if you have to tow-the-line with the requirements of even the most unschooling-friendly umbrella school. Deschooling will be all the more difficult if you're picking apart your children's daily activities so that you can fit them into neat little sections of grade-appropriate work.
Forget about the funding you'd receive if you signed up. Forget. About. It. Pretend you live somewhere where that money wasn't offered. Most unschoolers live in places where they aren't eligible for government funding and still manage to make it work.
Look at that money as dirty money that would be buying your children's freedom to learn how they want to. There will be significantly more reporting, significantly more oversight, significantly more stress to conform to someone else's standards.
Another thing: signing up for umbrella schools when you aren't required by law to do so, validates the state's belief that parents need help educating their children. Do you believe you need the state's help? Do you believe that a group of 'educators' you've never met know your children better than you do and that you need their assistance in creating a learning-centered life?
Furthermore, I think that the more people take advantage of these programs, the more likely they are to become requirements where you don't have the option of saying, "no thanks."
It is a slippery slope, one that unschoolers would do well to avoid if they have the option to do so.
Brie
---Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella
schools (for funding) for classes next fall! -----
That distraction will only increase if you have to tow-the-line with the requirements of even the most unschooling-friendly umbrella school. Deschooling will be all the more difficult if you're picking apart your children's daily activities so that you can fit them into neat little sections of grade-appropriate work.
Forget about the funding you'd receive if you signed up. Forget. About. It. Pretend you live somewhere where that money wasn't offered. Most unschoolers live in places where they aren't eligible for government funding and still manage to make it work.
Look at that money as dirty money that would be buying your children's freedom to learn how they want to. There will be significantly more reporting, significantly more oversight, significantly more stress to conform to someone else's standards.
Another thing: signing up for umbrella schools when you aren't required by law to do so, validates the state's belief that parents need help educating their children. Do you believe you need the state's help? Do you believe that a group of 'educators' you've never met know your children better than you do and that you need their assistance in creating a learning-centered life?
Furthermore, I think that the more people take advantage of these programs, the more likely they are to become requirements where you don't have the option of saying, "no thanks."
It is a slippery slope, one that unschoolers would do well to avoid if they have the option to do so.
Brie
Sandra Dodd
-=-Furthermore, I think that the more people take advantage of these programs, the more likely they are to become requirements where you don't have the option of saying, "no thanks."
-=-It is a slippery slope, one that unschoolers would do well to avoid if they have the option to do so.-=-
Yes.
Even if the program promises they have "no reporting requirements" the first year they form up, they WILL gather more and more requirements as time goes on.
I've seen it happen repeatedly in very different places.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-It is a slippery slope, one that unschoolers would do well to avoid if they have the option to do so.-=-
Yes.
Even if the program promises they have "no reporting requirements" the first year they form up, they WILL gather more and more requirements as time goes on.
I've seen it happen repeatedly in very different places.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jo70mo
I read something in this that I am not sure has been picked up - or even if it was actually meant in the original post. It seemed to be a question about, having seen the "pitfalls" with these particular apps, was it detrimental to continue to let them play on them or would it be better to "remove" them. It seeemed like a concern about possible damage to unschooling from the educational approach of the app.
My initial thought would be to leave the apps on the devices - if they enjoy them they'll play with them and if they dislike them they will probably stop. However it would be good to add some other apps on so they have a wide choice of stuff to choose from and to use different and more joy/fun based criteria to choose them. Maybe even trial a few cool things out yourself and see if they show excitement/ curiosity about the things you are trying - then you could help them get the ones they like on their devices.
Jo
My initial thought would be to leave the apps on the devices - if they enjoy them they'll play with them and if they dislike them they will probably stop. However it would be good to add some other apps on so they have a wide choice of stuff to choose from and to use different and more joy/fun based criteria to choose them. Maybe even trial a few cool things out yourself and see if they show excitement/ curiosity about the things you are trying - then you could help them get the ones they like on their devices.
Jo
--- In [email protected], catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...> wrote:
>
> Our family of competitive perfectionists (3 out of 4 of us are, anyway -- me, hubby and Ca) have been deschooling 2 months now.
>
> I downloaded some iPhone apps for Ca (5.5) and Iz (2.7). Based on ratings and rave reviews, I got Teach Me Toddler and Teach Me Kindergarten. Maybe I should have skipped the apps with "Teach" in the title as they are pretty traditional with giving rewards for consecutive right answers (virtual stickers and coins). I thought the stickers and coins would be fun for my girls who like to collect both, but as I've watched Ca play this app, it seems she is focused more on getting coins than she is interested in learning or asking me questions (she gets stuck on the same adding and subtracting problems). Ca has a competitive and perfectionist streak and she is driven to play this app to get as many coins as possible and asks me to give her the answers.
>
> I am fuzzy on how to proceed -- my girls are so excited to play with these apps, but it seems to me that if getting the rewards are what they are interested in, maybe I should find a game that fits their interest rather than an educational app that has a game-like appeal? I feel like the app is neither a very good learning tool nor a very good game.
>
> Or, am I overthinking this? If my girls like the app, even if my girls are results-driven rather than learning-focused, they are having fun and learning some phonics and math somewhat, I think...
>
> I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene? I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own but when it comes to learning how to read and add, I'm getting confused.
>
> Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)
>
> Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! Deschooling is hard -- even for someone who told one of her HS teachers that all I needed was my textbook and that going to class was not essential...and then I skipped out on a quarter to a third of my last year of HS!!!
>
> Would love some guidance...
>
> Happy New Year to the amazing families represented on this list, especially to the Always Learning veterans who share and give and share all year long!!!
>
> Grateful as always,
> Ceci
>
> Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
>
jo kirby
Yes I would second what Jo says about getting some other apps too. We have both the apps you mentioned, along with lots of others. My son used to enjoy them quite a lot and he still plays them occasionally.
I'm not sure we can really know what someone else's is true interest in something is (unless they are able to articulate it to us). I mean, for your daughter, collecting stickers might not be about getting 'rewards', it might be about the joy of putting a collection together and/or making it into a picture. And getting as many coins as possible might be about a challenge for herself of seeing how many she can pile up, or whether the game ever suprises her with something other than a coin, or about getting a certain number... My point is, you probably don't know/can't know what her real motivation is, but if she's enjoying it, trust that it's some good reason, not something to worry about like she's less interested in learning than in reaching a goal. The two are inseparable, and that's why you got the apps in the first place: because your daughters like collecting coins and stickers! They WILL learn along the way if they're enjoying the games. They may
not learn exactly what you had planned for them to learn, but they will learn what they need to learn.
I could suggest some other apps your girls might enjoy if you would like?
All the best,
Jo
________________________________
From: jo70mo <ben@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 19:49
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Deschooling competitive perfectionists
I read something in this that I am not sure has been picked up - or even if it was actually meant in the original post. It seemed to be a question about, having seen the "pitfalls" with these particular apps, was it detrimental to continue to let them play on them or would it be better to "remove" them. It seeemed like a concern about possible damage to unschooling from the educational approach of the app.
My initial thought would be to leave the apps on the devices - if they enjoy them they'll play with them and if they dislike them they will probably stop. However it would be good to add some other apps on so they have a wide choice of stuff to choose from and to use different and more joy/fun based criteria to choose them. Maybe even trial a few cool things out yourself and see if they show excitement/ curiosity about the things you are trying - then you could help them get the ones they like on their devices.
Jo
I'm not sure we can really know what someone else's is true interest in something is (unless they are able to articulate it to us). I mean, for your daughter, collecting stickers might not be about getting 'rewards', it might be about the joy of putting a collection together and/or making it into a picture. And getting as many coins as possible might be about a challenge for herself of seeing how many she can pile up, or whether the game ever suprises her with something other than a coin, or about getting a certain number... My point is, you probably don't know/can't know what her real motivation is, but if she's enjoying it, trust that it's some good reason, not something to worry about like she's less interested in learning than in reaching a goal. The two are inseparable, and that's why you got the apps in the first place: because your daughters like collecting coins and stickers! They WILL learn along the way if they're enjoying the games. They may
not learn exactly what you had planned for them to learn, but they will learn what they need to learn.
I could suggest some other apps your girls might enjoy if you would like?
All the best,
Jo
________________________________
From: jo70mo <ben@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 19:49
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Deschooling competitive perfectionists
I read something in this that I am not sure has been picked up - or even if it was actually meant in the original post. It seemed to be a question about, having seen the "pitfalls" with these particular apps, was it detrimental to continue to let them play on them or would it be better to "remove" them. It seeemed like a concern about possible damage to unschooling from the educational approach of the app.
My initial thought would be to leave the apps on the devices - if they enjoy them they'll play with them and if they dislike them they will probably stop. However it would be good to add some other apps on so they have a wide choice of stuff to choose from and to use different and more joy/fun based criteria to choose them. Maybe even trial a few cool things out yourself and see if they show excitement/ curiosity about the things you are trying - then you could help them get the ones they like on their devices.
Jo
--- In [email protected], catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...> wrote:
>
> Our family of competitive perfectionists (3 out of 4 of us are, anyway -- me, hubby and Ca) have been deschooling 2 months now.
>
> I downloaded some iPhone apps for Ca (5.5) and Iz (2.7). Based on ratings and rave reviews, I got Teach Me Toddler and Teach Me Kindergarten. Maybe I should have skipped the apps with "Teach" in the title as they are pretty traditional with giving rewards for consecutive right answers (virtual stickers and coins). I thought the stickers and coins would be fun for my girls who like to collect both, but as I've watched Ca play this app, it seems she is focused more on getting coins than she is interested in learning or asking me questions (she gets stuck on the same adding and subtracting problems). Ca has a competitive and perfectionist streak and she is driven to play this app to get as many coins as possible and asks me to give her the answers.
>
> I am fuzzy on how to proceed -- my girls are so excited to play with these apps, but it seems to me that if getting the rewards are what they are interested in, maybe I should find a game that fits their interest rather than an educational app that has a game-like appeal? I feel like the app is neither a very good learning tool nor a very good game.
>
> Or, am I overthinking this? If my girls like the app, even if my girls are results-driven rather than learning-focused, they are having fun and learning some phonics and math somewhat, I think...
>
> I am trying to get my head around learning naturally and when, how and why intervene? I gave my children time and space to learn to walk on their own but when it comes to learning how to read and add, I'm getting confused.
>
> Deschooling has got me all fuzzy in my brain and at very brief moments, miraculously clear. Mostly fuzzy right now, though :)
>
> Not to mention I'm already distracted from deschooling looking into umbrella schools (for funding) for classes next fall! Deschooling is hard -- even for someone who told one of her HS teachers that all I needed was my textbook and that going to class was not essential...and then I skipped out on a quarter to a third of my last year of HS!!!
>
> Would love some guidance...
>
> Happy New Year to the amazing families represented on this list, especially to the Always Learning veterans who share and give and share all year long!!!
>
> Grateful as always,
> Ceci
>
> Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catfish_friend
On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:39 PM, jo kirby <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
And, thank you to all for your responses! I really appreciate how thoughtful everyone is. I can be totally fuzzy and be led to clearer thinking here! I love how unschooling is helping me to continue learning so much myself...
Oh so grateful!
Ceci
> ---I could suggest some other apps your girls might enjoy if you would like?---Yes, please!
And, thank you to all for your responses! I really appreciate how thoughtful everyone is. I can be totally fuzzy and be led to clearer thinking here! I love how unschooling is helping me to continue learning so much myself...
Oh so grateful!
Ceci
jo kirby
Hi Ceci, these are some which my son played the most (in no particular order):
Dino Train - you have to find dinosaur eggs amongst the landscape.
Monkey's Preschool Lunchbox - matching pictures, choosing colours, counting etc. with a fun little monkey.
Tozzle - Drag components to make animated pictures (like a fancy jigsaw).
Monkey Preschool When I Grow Up - picking outfits for little monkeys!
Dream Zoo - Collect animals in a fun fantasy zoo.
Cover Orange - protect cute little oranges from the rain (this is brilliant fun we played it together for hours...)
Peppa Parrot - 4 or 5 mini Peppa games to do with finding stuff.
Tiny Tower - build floors, operate the lifts, choose shops etc. on a mini virtual tower.
Solitaire - I got this for myself but my son loves it too.
Tiny Trax - build your own train then watch it go by on a choice of landscapes.
Toca Doctor - fit animated bits of the body together like a jigsaw.
Also, not a game as such but we downloaded and enabled Emoticons (it's free), and now my son can send text messages to his Dad with pictures on them! (You need someone else with an iphone who doesn't mind receiving them!)
All of these represented brilliant value to us, we got loads of fun from playing them.
I wish you all the best...
Jo
________________________________
From: catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2012, 9:23
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Deschooling competitive perfectionists
Dino Train - you have to find dinosaur eggs amongst the landscape.
Monkey's Preschool Lunchbox - matching pictures, choosing colours, counting etc. with a fun little monkey.
Tozzle - Drag components to make animated pictures (like a fancy jigsaw).
Monkey Preschool When I Grow Up - picking outfits for little monkeys!
Dream Zoo - Collect animals in a fun fantasy zoo.
Cover Orange - protect cute little oranges from the rain (this is brilliant fun we played it together for hours...)
Peppa Parrot - 4 or 5 mini Peppa games to do with finding stuff.
Tiny Tower - build floors, operate the lifts, choose shops etc. on a mini virtual tower.
Solitaire - I got this for myself but my son loves it too.
Tiny Trax - build your own train then watch it go by on a choice of landscapes.
Toca Doctor - fit animated bits of the body together like a jigsaw.
Also, not a game as such but we downloaded and enabled Emoticons (it's free), and now my son can send text messages to his Dad with pictures on them! (You need someone else with an iphone who doesn't mind receiving them!)
All of these represented brilliant value to us, we got loads of fun from playing them.
I wish you all the best...
Jo
________________________________
From: catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2012, 9:23
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Deschooling competitive perfectionists
On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:39 PM, jo kirby <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
> ---I could suggest some other apps your girls might enjoy if you would like?---
Yes, please!
And, thank you to all for your responses! I really appreciate how thoughtful everyone is. I can be totally fuzzy and be led to clearer thinking here! I love how unschooling is helping me to continue learning so much myself...
Oh so grateful!
Ceci
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JustSayin
I thought this was important:
I only say all that because he got another cool math game-thing at Christmas (all my relatives give the boys resource books or "educational" toys since we started unschooling. Anyone else notice that phenomenon? It used to annoy me, now I have learned to appreciate the cool things they get), and playing with that prompted him to get out his multiplication board. He and my husband started talking about why we use multiplication (shortcut for adding). My son tried to figure out two "problems" my husband threw out there and couldn't, so my son got very frustrated. To his credit, my husband kept talking to him about the concepts and you could almost literally see the lightbulb go off in my son's head. Then my husband started throwing some "problems" out there an he answered every one (no help from the board).
It amazed me. I have such math anxiety because of the way it was taught to me in school that it makes this even more significant. My son learned multiplication, without any pressure to do so, just because it was cool, in 10 minutes.
We probably spent months in school trying to learn the same thing. No one told me it was fun, no one told me it was OK to experiment until it made sense to me. And to this day I tense up if I have to solve a math problem. Crazy.
I just wanted to mention this because I think a lot of us think it's hard to learn stuff, or we think we have to push it because who the heck would WANT to learn it? But it is helpful I think to remember stories like this and also understand, as Joyce said, that schools often make "learning" a lot harder than it is. Maybe to justify their existence, maybe to fill the days, maybe because no one thinks about having fun.
Good to always keep in mind that for adults or for kids, it really does not take long at all to learn something that is interesting to you.
--Melissa
P.S. I hesitated to write this because this particluar bit of learning was so schoolish looking. So I want to be clear I am not advocating that this is the only way someone can learn math; kids use math all the time in video games, when they want to save up for something, or even when they are trying to figure out how many days until their birthday. And as Joyce said: "as a side effect of exploring their interests". My son just happens to like the concrete-ness of looking at the numbers and seeing what can be done with them.
>> Despite the hours and hours and hours that schools devote to math and reading, it doesn't take any where near that long when kids are picking up knowledge and skills as a side effect of exploring their interests.My younger son (8) got a multiplication board when he was little just because it looked cool. The board has (for example) 7x2 and when they press down the button it shows the answer. I am so opposed to anything schoolish it kind of made me cringe (but I have learned to be careful about this) but he loved it just for fun.
I only say all that because he got another cool math game-thing at Christmas (all my relatives give the boys resource books or "educational" toys since we started unschooling. Anyone else notice that phenomenon? It used to annoy me, now I have learned to appreciate the cool things they get), and playing with that prompted him to get out his multiplication board. He and my husband started talking about why we use multiplication (shortcut for adding). My son tried to figure out two "problems" my husband threw out there and couldn't, so my son got very frustrated. To his credit, my husband kept talking to him about the concepts and you could almost literally see the lightbulb go off in my son's head. Then my husband started throwing some "problems" out there an he answered every one (no help from the board).
It amazed me. I have such math anxiety because of the way it was taught to me in school that it makes this even more significant. My son learned multiplication, without any pressure to do so, just because it was cool, in 10 minutes.
We probably spent months in school trying to learn the same thing. No one told me it was fun, no one told me it was OK to experiment until it made sense to me. And to this day I tense up if I have to solve a math problem. Crazy.
I just wanted to mention this because I think a lot of us think it's hard to learn stuff, or we think we have to push it because who the heck would WANT to learn it? But it is helpful I think to remember stories like this and also understand, as Joyce said, that schools often make "learning" a lot harder than it is. Maybe to justify their existence, maybe to fill the days, maybe because no one thinks about having fun.
Good to always keep in mind that for adults or for kids, it really does not take long at all to learn something that is interesting to you.
--Melissa
P.S. I hesitated to write this because this particluar bit of learning was so schoolish looking. So I want to be clear I am not advocating that this is the only way someone can learn math; kids use math all the time in video games, when they want to save up for something, or even when they are trying to figure out how many days until their birthday. And as Joyce said: "as a side effect of exploring their interests". My son just happens to like the concrete-ness of looking at the numbers and seeing what can be done with them.
Miliana Johnson
Hi Ceci,
My daughters are 4 and 6. We have the following ipad apps:
Morris (a book about books)
KidsBank (so they can keep an eye on their finances)
Bugs & Buttons (a lot of fun games all in one) - they play this one most often
DuckShoot (like the old-fashioned boardwalk game)
Balloonimals (very cute)
Sketches (easy to use drawing app)
Lulu Australia (a book about Australia)
Grow Your Garden (math/logic) - my 6 year old plays this one often
Violet (a book)
Bartleby's Buttons vol 1 (a book with puzzles to solve)
Adding Apples (a counting game, replete with reward coins and completion statues) - both girls like this game. My 4 year old sometimes asks me to help with the answers and we count the apples together
We also have:
MiniPiano
Recorder
VoiceBand (turns your voice into any instrument sound)
8mm
Photo Booth
Per a previous poster's app list I'm about to download Toca Doctor and Toca Robot. I also am downloading The Bard's Tale.
Let me know if you discover any other good ones!
Aloha,
Miliana
My daughters are 4 and 6. We have the following ipad apps:
Morris (a book about books)
KidsBank (so they can keep an eye on their finances)
Bugs & Buttons (a lot of fun games all in one) - they play this one most often
DuckShoot (like the old-fashioned boardwalk game)
Balloonimals (very cute)
Sketches (easy to use drawing app)
Lulu Australia (a book about Australia)
Grow Your Garden (math/logic) - my 6 year old plays this one often
Violet (a book)
Bartleby's Buttons vol 1 (a book with puzzles to solve)
Adding Apples (a counting game, replete with reward coins and completion statues) - both girls like this game. My 4 year old sometimes asks me to help with the answers and we count the apples together
We also have:
MiniPiano
Recorder
VoiceBand (turns your voice into any instrument sound)
8mm
Photo Booth
Per a previous poster's app list I'm about to download Toca Doctor and Toca Robot. I also am downloading The Bard's Tale.
Let me know if you discover any other good ones!
Aloha,
Miliana