not listening
m_aduhene
i have 3 children but it is my youngest two i would welcome your suggestions about please. they are 7 1/2 and 5 1/2. for the past two months i have noticed that when daddy is around the house my children get along fine, they fall out sometimes but life is harmonious. it seems as soon as the door closes and daddy has gone to work or just out then they begin to change their behaviour. they don't listen to me, they argue back, they fight more, they roll their eyes and my youngest has this "look" she gives me, sort of staring and defiant. my son gets a "gangsta" attitude, sort of arms swinging and a "whatever dude" kind of voice. as they are so young i want to try and stop this. i am firm with them and explain this is not respectful behaviour. i am away at the moment with family and am getting emabbarassed by the behaviour. becos i feel pressure to be seen to be punishing them for this behaviour then i have resorted to knocking money off their holiday allowance which is not what i want to do but now feel i have to carry out. their dad is not with us on holiday but they are only behaving like this for me and not when their uncles are present. i am beginning to feel like i am being manipulated. any suggestions?
thanks
blessings
michelle
thanks
blessings
michelle
Glenda
===it seems as soon as the door closes and daddy has gone to work or just out then they begin to change their behaviour===
How does *your* behavior change when their dad isn't home? If you have the expectation their behavior is going to change, chances are good your body and your behavior mirror that expectation, and your kids are picking up on that.
I have this great magnet on my fridge that I bought from Sandra and it says: "To have more peace in your home, be more peaceful." You can't change your kids' behavior, but you can change yours.
Instead of thinking "my youngest has this 'look' she gives me", think about your end of your interactions with her. Think about your tone of voice, body language, looks you give her, expectations you have.
Same thing with your son.
===i am firm with them and explain this is not respectful behaviour===
You said your daughter has "this look" and your son has a "gangsta attitude". Those are not respectful ways in which to think of your children, if that particular look of your daughter's and if being gangsta have negative connotations to you.
===i am away at the moment with family and am getting emabbarassed by the behaviour. becos i feel pressure to be seen to be punishing them for
this behaviour===
Pressure from whom? If your parents, it can help to ask yourself if it's more important to you to be your parents' child or your children's parent.
===then i have resorted to knocking money off their holiday
allowance which is not what i want to do but now feel i have to carry
out===
But you *don't* have to!! Is it going to better your relationship with your kids to knock money off their holiday allowance if they don't meet your expectations of how they should act, or is it going to harm your relationship with them? I know in my family, it would harm my relationship with my son.
You do have the option to apologize to your children and let them know you felt pressured to parent in a way in which you'd rather not, and you do have the option to give back the money you took away from them. You have the option to say and do things that will move towards repairing your relationship with them, rather than harming it further. You have the option of making choices that make it clear to them they are more important to you than what your parents/siblings/aunts/uncles/whoever think about your parenting.
===i am beginning to feel like i am being manipulated===
I cringe when I hear an adult say a child is manipulative. To me, that's an adult framing a child's behavior in negative adult terms. If a parent views their child as manipulative, that's a negative perception of their child. Perhaps you could reframe how you see your children's behaviors, to consider they are likely *reacting* to something, and then give consideration to what they might be reacting. To find the compassion for what they might be feeling, instead of feeling defensive of how others might perceive your parenting or to feel that your kids are doing something *to* you.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How does *your* behavior change when their dad isn't home? If you have the expectation their behavior is going to change, chances are good your body and your behavior mirror that expectation, and your kids are picking up on that.
I have this great magnet on my fridge that I bought from Sandra and it says: "To have more peace in your home, be more peaceful." You can't change your kids' behavior, but you can change yours.
Instead of thinking "my youngest has this 'look' she gives me", think about your end of your interactions with her. Think about your tone of voice, body language, looks you give her, expectations you have.
Same thing with your son.
===i am firm with them and explain this is not respectful behaviour===
You said your daughter has "this look" and your son has a "gangsta attitude". Those are not respectful ways in which to think of your children, if that particular look of your daughter's and if being gangsta have negative connotations to you.
===i am away at the moment with family and am getting emabbarassed by the behaviour. becos i feel pressure to be seen to be punishing them for
this behaviour===
Pressure from whom? If your parents, it can help to ask yourself if it's more important to you to be your parents' child or your children's parent.
===then i have resorted to knocking money off their holiday
allowance which is not what i want to do but now feel i have to carry
out===
But you *don't* have to!! Is it going to better your relationship with your kids to knock money off their holiday allowance if they don't meet your expectations of how they should act, or is it going to harm your relationship with them? I know in my family, it would harm my relationship with my son.
You do have the option to apologize to your children and let them know you felt pressured to parent in a way in which you'd rather not, and you do have the option to give back the money you took away from them. You have the option to say and do things that will move towards repairing your relationship with them, rather than harming it further. You have the option of making choices that make it clear to them they are more important to you than what your parents/siblings/aunts/uncles/whoever think about your parenting.
===i am beginning to feel like i am being manipulated===
I cringe when I hear an adult say a child is manipulative. To me, that's an adult framing a child's behavior in negative adult terms. If a parent views their child as manipulative, that's a negative perception of their child. Perhaps you could reframe how you see your children's behaviors, to consider they are likely *reacting* to something, and then give consideration to what they might be reacting. To find the compassion for what they might be feeling, instead of feeling defensive of how others might perceive your parenting or to feel that your kids are doing something *to* you.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Glenda
===To find the compassion for what they might be feeling, instead of
feeling defensive of how others might perceive your parenting or to feel that your kids are doing something *to* you.===
The beginning of that sentence should read: "Try to find the compassion...".
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feeling defensive of how others might perceive your parenting or to feel that your kids are doing something *to* you.===
The beginning of that sentence should read: "Try to find the compassion...".
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Radha ma Tayay
I am also struggling with my son's behavior right now but it is mainly due to the fact we are always together without break/ or buffer from a "daddy" or siblings which can get very intense.
As per your two youngest i want to share what I read in a waldorf blog regarding the developmental stages of children. I always stayed away from waldorfy stuff due to dogma but when I read this it really helped me. Basically as per waldorf perspective of the developmental stages of children around the age of 5 1/2 to about 7 there is a huge shift in what is called the "first purberty" in which occurs an etheric separation from the mother (also coinciding with the first teeth). This is especially hard on the mother and can be a turbulent time (which is why waldorf does not add academics into this time of upheaval until after 7). Reading this stuff really helped regain my sanity. The mainstream does not recognize alot of this. Personally, it was like reading a description of my child; it resonated. Maybe it will not apply for you or your children but it really helped me and so wanted to share. You can google the six/seven year change to get more of a taste of what i found to be an refreshingly accurate description of child development. Just having this awareness was a support in that it helped me reframe my perspective about my son's behavior, especially in the face of mainstream parenting and expectation.
As per your two youngest i want to share what I read in a waldorf blog regarding the developmental stages of children. I always stayed away from waldorfy stuff due to dogma but when I read this it really helped me. Basically as per waldorf perspective of the developmental stages of children around the age of 5 1/2 to about 7 there is a huge shift in what is called the "first purberty" in which occurs an etheric separation from the mother (also coinciding with the first teeth). This is especially hard on the mother and can be a turbulent time (which is why waldorf does not add academics into this time of upheaval until after 7). Reading this stuff really helped regain my sanity. The mainstream does not recognize alot of this. Personally, it was like reading a description of my child; it resonated. Maybe it will not apply for you or your children but it really helped me and so wanted to share. You can google the six/seven year change to get more of a taste of what i found to be an refreshingly accurate description of child development. Just having this awareness was a support in that it helped me reframe my perspective about my son's behavior, especially in the face of mainstream parenting and expectation.
--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
>
> i have 3 children but it is my youngest two i would welcome your suggestions about please. they are 7 1/2 and 5 1/2. for the past two months i have noticed that when daddy is around the house my children get along fine, they fall out sometimes but life is harmonious. it seems as soon as the door closes and daddy has gone to work or just out then they begin to change their behaviour. they don't listen to me, they argue back, they fight more, they roll their eyes and my youngest has this "look" she gives me, sort of staring and defiant. my son gets a "gangsta" attitude, sort of arms swinging and a "whatever dude" kind of voice. as they are so young i want to try and stop this. i am firm with them and explain this is not respectful behaviour. i am away at the moment with family and am getting emabbarassed by the behaviour. becos i feel pressure to be seen to be punishing them for this behaviour then i have resorted to knocking money off their holiday allowance which is not what i want to do but now feel i have to carry out. their dad is not with us on holiday but they are only behaving like this for me and not when their uncles are present. i am beginning to feel like i am being manipulated. any suggestions?
> thanks
> blessings
> michelle
>
Glenda
===You can't change your kids' behavior, but you can change yours.===
I'm going to contradict myself just a bit now ;-).
What I've personally experienced is that when I began to change MY behavior in my interactions with my son and my husband so that I was being more peaceful and respectful and compassionate and not making everything about me, the ripples in the pond carried throughout our entire household. My husband's and son's behaviors are their own, of course, but because I was the least peaceful person in our house when we were new to unschooling, when I became more peaceful it had a calming influence on all of us. Their naturally-peaceful demeanors, which had been somewhat squashed by my not-so-peaceful demeanor, were able to come forth again.
I consciously made the effort day after day to change my behavior and my interactions with them. I reminded myself often throughout the day to think before speaking. If I felt snappish or edgy, I made the effort to be extra diligent about not saying something to either of them in anger or because I was tired or hungry or hormonal. I let my husband know that if I sometimes didn't answer right away, it was because I didn't want to reply snappishly and say something I couldn't take back. As the changes in my behavior became second-nature, my guys, especially my husband, no longer felt like being around me required him to walk on eggshells.
I didn't directly change their behavior, but my own behavior changes had a direct impact on how comfortable they felt around me and on our interactions with each other.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm going to contradict myself just a bit now ;-).
What I've personally experienced is that when I began to change MY behavior in my interactions with my son and my husband so that I was being more peaceful and respectful and compassionate and not making everything about me, the ripples in the pond carried throughout our entire household. My husband's and son's behaviors are their own, of course, but because I was the least peaceful person in our house when we were new to unschooling, when I became more peaceful it had a calming influence on all of us. Their naturally-peaceful demeanors, which had been somewhat squashed by my not-so-peaceful demeanor, were able to come forth again.
I consciously made the effort day after day to change my behavior and my interactions with them. I reminded myself often throughout the day to think before speaking. If I felt snappish or edgy, I made the effort to be extra diligent about not saying something to either of them in anger or because I was tired or hungry or hormonal. I let my husband know that if I sometimes didn't answer right away, it was because I didn't want to reply snappishly and say something I couldn't take back. As the changes in my behavior became second-nature, my guys, especially my husband, no longer felt like being around me required him to walk on eggshells.
I didn't directly change their behavior, but my own behavior changes had a direct impact on how comfortable they felt around me and on our interactions with each other.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
You don't say why you think the kids behave so well when their father is
present. Are they afraid of him? Concerned about being punished? Or maybe
he pays a lot of attention to them? Maybe he is fun and entertaining and
gets them into a good mood? Keeps them occupied?
You also don't say why you think they are being rude and oppositional with
you. Do they have reason to be a bit angry with you? You're visiting people
so maybe you are paying a lot of attention to others and disregarding the
children's needs and interests? When at home, do you do the housework?
Maybe they are feeling like you're putting that before paying attention to
them? Are you dissatisfied with them in some way? Do you wish they were
different? Maybe you wish they were quieter or would watch tv less or
something? Does your husband show more unconditional love than you do? Do
they feel a sense of collaboration with him and feel more adversarial with
you? Why?
Just questions - not accusations and not for you to necessarily answer on
the list, but to consider privately.
I don't think it is good to ignore behavior that is very rude or
interfering in other people's enjoyment of their lives. But, very often the
best way to deal with it is to "reset" the stage - create an environment
that works better for the kids.
I'm not sure what "being firm" meant, but it sounds like punishment. Maybe
think more in terms of being clear and kind, rather than firm.
I recommend reading "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids
will Talk" to get some help on understanding ways you might communicate
that don't bring on the hostility you've been experiencing.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
present. Are they afraid of him? Concerned about being punished? Or maybe
he pays a lot of attention to them? Maybe he is fun and entertaining and
gets them into a good mood? Keeps them occupied?
You also don't say why you think they are being rude and oppositional with
you. Do they have reason to be a bit angry with you? You're visiting people
so maybe you are paying a lot of attention to others and disregarding the
children's needs and interests? When at home, do you do the housework?
Maybe they are feeling like you're putting that before paying attention to
them? Are you dissatisfied with them in some way? Do you wish they were
different? Maybe you wish they were quieter or would watch tv less or
something? Does your husband show more unconditional love than you do? Do
they feel a sense of collaboration with him and feel more adversarial with
you? Why?
Just questions - not accusations and not for you to necessarily answer on
the list, but to consider privately.
I don't think it is good to ignore behavior that is very rude or
interfering in other people's enjoyment of their lives. But, very often the
best way to deal with it is to "reset" the stage - create an environment
that works better for the kids.
I'm not sure what "being firm" meant, but it sounds like punishment. Maybe
think more in terms of being clear and kind, rather than firm.
I recommend reading "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids
will Talk" to get some help on understanding ways you might communicate
that don't bring on the hostility you've been experiencing.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I recommend reading "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids
will Talk" to get some help on understanding ways you might communicate
that don't bring on the hostility you've been experiencing.-=-
Yes, and maybe mention (in just five words or so) something for them to think about. Like "Was that your best option?" And don't drone on about it. Ask the question, plant the reminder, and let him/her have time to think.
But none of that will work until a while after you're doing it yourself.
Some parents want to tell their children to be peaceful without thinking they themselves need to learn to be peaceful first.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There's a sound file at the bottom. It might seem like it's a lot to go through, but if it helps your children live more happily in the world now and forevermore, it's not so much time and effort to invest. And it's free.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
will Talk" to get some help on understanding ways you might communicate
that don't bring on the hostility you've been experiencing.-=-
Yes, and maybe mention (in just five words or so) something for them to think about. Like "Was that your best option?" And don't drone on about it. Ask the question, plant the reminder, and let him/her have time to think.
But none of that will work until a while after you're doing it yourself.
Some parents want to tell their children to be peaceful without thinking they themselves need to learn to be peaceful first.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There's a sound file at the bottom. It might seem like it's a lot to go through, but if it helps your children live more happily in the world now and forevermore, it's not so much time and effort to invest. And it's free.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"Radha ma Tayay" <blissfulcalm@...> wrote:
Piaget called it the "concrete operational" stage and noted that children become better at logical thinking and using symbols. From that perspective, it's a stage where any kind of fuzziness in adult thinking can really grate on a child - much the way teens often find adult inconsistencies frustrating and annoying.
---Meredith
>Basically as per waldorf perspective of the developmental stages of children around the age of 5 1/2 to about 7 there is a huge shift in what is called the "first purberty"**************
Piaget called it the "concrete operational" stage and noted that children become better at logical thinking and using symbols. From that perspective, it's a stage where any kind of fuzziness in adult thinking can really grate on a child - much the way teens often find adult inconsistencies frustrating and annoying.
---Meredith
Glenda
===i am beginning to feel like i am being manipulated===
This has been popping up in my mind every so often, so I wanted to come back to it.
Per www.dictionary.com,
"manipulate" can be defined as: "to manage or influence skillfully,
especially in an unfair manner". There are a couple more definitions,
but, to me, this most closely fits what adults generally mean when they
say their kids are manipulating them.
If kids are being docked money for not behaving in a certain way, that's manipulation on the part of the parent, not the kids.
If the parenting style was more traditional (punitive) before a family came to unschooling, it can take time for kids to begin to trust they will not be punished and will be treated with the same level of respect with which their parents expect to be treated. Each time a parent reverts back to that punitive style of parenting, it chips away at any trust that's begun to form. That's when an apology on the parent's part is invaluable. "I'm sorry. I regret that I did 'x'. That's not how I want to parent." goes a long way, *if* it's not happening so often that the kids become immune to it.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This has been popping up in my mind every so often, so I wanted to come back to it.
Per www.dictionary.com,
"manipulate" can be defined as: "to manage or influence skillfully,
especially in an unfair manner". There are a couple more definitions,
but, to me, this most closely fits what adults generally mean when they
say their kids are manipulating them.
If kids are being docked money for not behaving in a certain way, that's manipulation on the part of the parent, not the kids.
If the parenting style was more traditional (punitive) before a family came to unschooling, it can take time for kids to begin to trust they will not be punished and will be treated with the same level of respect with which their parents expect to be treated. Each time a parent reverts back to that punitive style of parenting, it chips away at any trust that's begun to form. That's when an apology on the parent's part is invaluable. "I'm sorry. I regret that I did 'x'. That's not how I want to parent." goes a long way, *if* it's not happening so often that the kids become immune to it.
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]