Helping young children
jo kirby
Hello All,
Here is something which has been on my mind for a while and I would be very interested to hear what you all think...
I have always done lots of art and craft activities with my son, who is five in a couple of weeks. I have never pushed him to do anything he doesn't want to do, and have always helped when he's asked me to.
We do a wide variety of stuff, sometimes open minded explorations of materials, sometimes a starting idea which he or I might suggest. Generally he leads the ideas, and I make suggestions. Even when it's a craft kit type of thing, we often diverge from the way it's designed to be because he has an alternative idea. Our craft sessions often it feels very lovely, very connecting and close, and we both seem to be having a good time just hanging out together working on something.
For quite a while he has been interested in things being realistic, for example he likes colouring to be neat, he likes pictures to look realistic, he likes the scale of things to match (I mean, he doesn't want to play with two animals together, or have two animals in a drawing, if the scales don't match). I think for these reasons he often asks me to help, by which he means do the actual making bit for him, because he knows it will probably be more realistic and neater than he could do it. I am happy to help, and I do so willingly.
He usually stays beside me directing what he wants me to do as I draw/cut/whatever, and often gets very excited about what's coming. Other times if he seems like he might be getting a bit bored I ask if he wants me to carry on drawing/cutting/etc or shall we change and do something else now. He always refers to our projects as ours, so I'm sure he feels very involved and not left out. I realise it is totally his choice to ask me to do these things for him - I see it that he is using my skills and experience to get the results he wants, and that is wonderful. He does sometimes draw/make stuff by himself, but more often than not he will have me do it for him.
The area on my mind is how to balance adult help with a concern that by doing it for him I am 'doing him out of' something so potentially enjoyable?: the exploration of the materials and making itself.
A couple of times I have suggested "why don't you have a go?" and he says it won't be as neat etc. What are your thoughts/experiences in this area?
Kind regards,
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here is something which has been on my mind for a while and I would be very interested to hear what you all think...
I have always done lots of art and craft activities with my son, who is five in a couple of weeks. I have never pushed him to do anything he doesn't want to do, and have always helped when he's asked me to.
We do a wide variety of stuff, sometimes open minded explorations of materials, sometimes a starting idea which he or I might suggest. Generally he leads the ideas, and I make suggestions. Even when it's a craft kit type of thing, we often diverge from the way it's designed to be because he has an alternative idea. Our craft sessions often it feels very lovely, very connecting and close, and we both seem to be having a good time just hanging out together working on something.
For quite a while he has been interested in things being realistic, for example he likes colouring to be neat, he likes pictures to look realistic, he likes the scale of things to match (I mean, he doesn't want to play with two animals together, or have two animals in a drawing, if the scales don't match). I think for these reasons he often asks me to help, by which he means do the actual making bit for him, because he knows it will probably be more realistic and neater than he could do it. I am happy to help, and I do so willingly.
He usually stays beside me directing what he wants me to do as I draw/cut/whatever, and often gets very excited about what's coming. Other times if he seems like he might be getting a bit bored I ask if he wants me to carry on drawing/cutting/etc or shall we change and do something else now. He always refers to our projects as ours, so I'm sure he feels very involved and not left out. I realise it is totally his choice to ask me to do these things for him - I see it that he is using my skills and experience to get the results he wants, and that is wonderful. He does sometimes draw/make stuff by himself, but more often than not he will have me do it for him.
The area on my mind is how to balance adult help with a concern that by doing it for him I am 'doing him out of' something so potentially enjoyable?: the exploration of the materials and making itself.
A couple of times I have suggested "why don't you have a go?" and he says it won't be as neat etc. What are your thoughts/experiences in this area?
Kind regards,
Jo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
> The area on my mind is how to balance adult help with a concern that by doing it for him I am 'doing him out of' something so potentially enjoyable?: the exploration of the materials and making itself.I'm reading a great book right now that was recommended on this list. It is called _The Book of Learning and Forgetting_ by Frank Smith. I will quote a part in there that talks about how children learn language:
>
> A couple of times I have suggested "why don't you have a go?" and he says it won't be as neat etc. What are your thoughts/experiences in this area?
"Children don't learn to talk by practicing talking--they hear other people talking and learn to talk like them. The learning is vicarious..."
I thought this was really interesting when I read it, because I used to remark to people that Ethan often wanted to watch me do things for a long time before doing them himself. This was curious to me. Even when playing a new video game that he was excited about, he would (and still will) often prefer to watch me for a good while first, before tackling it himself. In fact, he watched me ride my bike forever before he decided to give it a try. He used to ask me to ride around and around on the driveway at our house. Then, when he did try, he got it almost immediately, and told everyone who asked that he got it because he thought about it for a long time first. I didn't really understand how you could learn to ride a bike by thinking about it first, but now I believe a lot of learning (with Ethan, anyway) may happen vicariously...like learning to talk.
Meredith
jo kirby <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
I have a blog post from about a year ago related to this:
http://tinyurl.com/73eqsnj
Maybe he's not interested in the materials. Some people are designers. Some people write. Or draw - architects aren't engineers or construction workers. Home decorators often don't make the drapes or upholster the furniture. The idea that he "should" touch and manipulate the materials is coming from you, not him. He doesn't have to touch them to envision and create.
And! He may get into the materials later. Mo didn't used to draw or paint or write, she "only" cut paper and taped it together. Kids grow and change. It's better to let him come to the materials in his own way, in his own time, rather than spoil the fun for him by insisting he do something which will leave him frustrated and dissatisfied.
---Meredith
>> A couple of times I have suggested "why don't you have a go?" and he says it won't be as neat etc. What are your thoughts/experiences in this area?*****************
I have a blog post from about a year ago related to this:
http://tinyurl.com/73eqsnj
>>> The area on my mind is how to balance adult help with a concern that by doing it for him I am 'doing him out of' something so potentially enjoyable?: the exploration of the materials and making itself.****************
Maybe he's not interested in the materials. Some people are designers. Some people write. Or draw - architects aren't engineers or construction workers. Home decorators often don't make the drapes or upholster the furniture. The idea that he "should" touch and manipulate the materials is coming from you, not him. He doesn't have to touch them to envision and create.
And! He may get into the materials later. Mo didn't used to draw or paint or write, she "only" cut paper and taped it together. Kids grow and change. It's better to let him come to the materials in his own way, in his own time, rather than spoil the fun for him by insisting he do something which will leave him frustrated and dissatisfied.
---Meredith
Meredith
"Karen" <semajrak@...> wrote:
It took me a long time to be okay with the fact that sometimes I need to watch someone else do something in order to learn. Outside of academics, there's an overwhelming expectation that the way to learn is to try: go make friends, jump in the water, put your hands in the cookie dough. And in school, watching another person learn has a dirty name: cheating. Keep your eyes on your own work.
It wasn't until I had kids and was trying to watch them learn that I realized how often people learn via watching. And gradually, I gave myself permission to watch, to "cheat" by seeing what others do and how. As a result, I've gotten better at things I wasn't very skilled at doing.
---Meredith
>> I thought this was really interesting when I read it, because I used to remark to people that Ethan often wanted to watch me do things for a long time before doing them himself. This was curious to me.********************
It took me a long time to be okay with the fact that sometimes I need to watch someone else do something in order to learn. Outside of academics, there's an overwhelming expectation that the way to learn is to try: go make friends, jump in the water, put your hands in the cookie dough. And in school, watching another person learn has a dirty name: cheating. Keep your eyes on your own work.
It wasn't until I had kids and was trying to watch them learn that I realized how often people learn via watching. And gradually, I gave myself permission to watch, to "cheat" by seeing what others do and how. As a result, I've gotten better at things I wasn't very skilled at doing.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=- in school, watching another person learn has a dirty name: cheating. Keep your eyes on your own work.-=-
YES!!
I've seen people watch other people play musical instruments for LONG periods of time before ever wanting to touch the instrument themselves. And video gamers will watch others play for hours.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
YES!!
I've seen people watch other people play musical instruments for LONG periods of time before ever wanting to touch the instrument themselves. And video gamers will watch others play for hours.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-For quite a while he has been interested in things being realistic, for example he likes colouring to be neat, he likes pictures to look realistic, he likes the scale of things to match (I mean, he doesn't want to play with two animals together, or have two animals in a drawing, if the scales don't match)-=-
He might like a paint-with-water book where the paint is already embedded in the paper and only needs a wet brush, or perhaps a program like KidPix where he can fill in pictures with colors of his choice using a "paint bucket" of the style used in draw/art/edit programs. That end up being great practice for Photobucket later, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He might like a paint-with-water book where the paint is already embedded in the paper and only needs a wet brush, or perhaps a program like KidPix where he can fill in pictures with colors of his choice using a "paint bucket" of the style used in draw/art/edit programs. That end up being great practice for Photobucket later, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:43 AM, jo kirby <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
artistic vision. I think the fact that a child of his age can express an
artistic vision is beautiful and shows that he has a great deal of talent.
I also think that it is very probable that you might break the system that
you guys have that he seems to be very happy with if you try to 'give him
the benefit' of doing it himself. Your son will keep growing and maturing
and his motor skills will catch up with his creative talent. At that point
he will do his own cutting, pasting, etc and it will be one of those many
bittersweet moments of parenthood where something is lost and something is
gained in what seems like a flash, even though it is just one of those many
steps that a person makes as they keep growing and learning.
From what you have said here, it sounds like he is enjoying the materials
and exploration. When I was very young, I had very clear visions of what I
wanted my projects to look like, but I couldn't achieve those results
because I could not make my hands do the things that were necessary. By
the time that I had developed the fine motor skills to possibly achieve the
intended results I was very angry at art in general because of the
frustration that I experienced when I was young. My mother believed that
it was best for children to do it themselves so that they could learn. I
don't think that she realized how frustrated I was and how angry I felt and
that I translated that to my being 'incapable', not young and progressing
to a place where my hands would be able to do what I wanted them to do,
just incapable...
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **I think that your son is using your mature coordination to realize his
>
>
> @@@@@The area on my mind is how to balance adult help with a concern that
> by doing it for him I am 'doing him out of' something so potentially
> enjoyable?: the exploration of the materials and making itself.@@@@@
>
artistic vision. I think the fact that a child of his age can express an
artistic vision is beautiful and shows that he has a great deal of talent.
I also think that it is very probable that you might break the system that
you guys have that he seems to be very happy with if you try to 'give him
the benefit' of doing it himself. Your son will keep growing and maturing
and his motor skills will catch up with his creative talent. At that point
he will do his own cutting, pasting, etc and it will be one of those many
bittersweet moments of parenthood where something is lost and something is
gained in what seems like a flash, even though it is just one of those many
steps that a person makes as they keep growing and learning.
From what you have said here, it sounds like he is enjoying the materials
and exploration. When I was very young, I had very clear visions of what I
wanted my projects to look like, but I couldn't achieve those results
because I could not make my hands do the things that were necessary. By
the time that I had developed the fine motor skills to possibly achieve the
intended results I was very angry at art in general because of the
frustration that I experienced when I was young. My mother believed that
it was best for children to do it themselves so that they could learn. I
don't think that she realized how frustrated I was and how angry I felt and
that I translated that to my being 'incapable', not young and progressing
to a place where my hands would be able to do what I wanted them to do,
just incapable...
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> **Chris
>
> @@@@@I've seen people watch other people play musical instruments for LONG
> periods of time before ever wanting to touch the instrument themselves. And
> video gamers will watch others play for hours.
>
> Sandra@@@@
>
>
> I am not endorsing nor suggesting the Suzuki Method, but in that method
> the student is asked to listen, listen, listen and watch occasionally the
> piece that is being learned. The program actually requires students to
> listen to the piece for a minimum amount of time each week. The student is
> also encouraged to 'play' with the instrument, just to get a feel for it.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Tammy and Matt Hoeltke
Hi everyone,
My children are aged 23 on down to 4, and all have very different styles! But the one thing that immediately came to mind while reading the posts on this topic was my now-22y/o daughter's experiences playing softball. We had read that a lot of coaches had their players visualize their moves, and that actively visualizing as if they were actually, physically doing the drill or making the shot etc had the same effect on the brain as if the player had actually, physically done the drill. We had a mantra "be the ball", or as we'd drive to the game or practice (lots of drive time, we lived in the countryside then),she'd close her eyes and visualize making the plays as she'd like to........I don't know for sure, of course, if visualization really made the difference, but that year she and her team had a great season, and Al made quite a few really good, confident plays that were game-changers. To this day, our encouraging 'code words' to each other are 'be the ball' or some such.
Maybe not quite the same as your topic, but it felt the same to me! Watching someone who possesses a skill you need, while they perform the task (whether it be in 'reality' or imagining yourself being the skillful one!) is a very excellent way for your brain to create the pathways needed to learn that skill.
Happy New Year to all,
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My children are aged 23 on down to 4, and all have very different styles! But the one thing that immediately came to mind while reading the posts on this topic was my now-22y/o daughter's experiences playing softball. We had read that a lot of coaches had their players visualize their moves, and that actively visualizing as if they were actually, physically doing the drill or making the shot etc had the same effect on the brain as if the player had actually, physically done the drill. We had a mantra "be the ball", or as we'd drive to the game or practice (lots of drive time, we lived in the countryside then),she'd close her eyes and visualize making the plays as she'd like to........I don't know for sure, of course, if visualization really made the difference, but that year she and her team had a great season, and Al made quite a few really good, confident plays that were game-changers. To this day, our encouraging 'code words' to each other are 'be the ball' or some such.
Maybe not quite the same as your topic, but it felt the same to me! Watching someone who possesses a skill you need, while they perform the task (whether it be in 'reality' or imagining yourself being the skillful one!) is a very excellent way for your brain to create the pathways needed to learn that skill.
Happy New Year to all,
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Maybe not quite the same as your topic, but it felt the same to me! Watching someone who possesses a skill you need, while they perform the task (whether it be in 'reality' or imagining yourself being the skillful one!) is a very excellent way for your brain to create the pathways needed to learn that skill.-=-
That works with unschooling, too. :-)
People who find ways to be around other unschooling families can note behaviors they want to emulate, and maybe some they want to avoid, and by picturing those things working through in their own family, they gain a larger range of options when they make choices.
If people don't decide to make choices, or practice choosing, consciously, many times a day, they can't make that progress.
Some people decide once to "be unschoolers" and then try to figure out which behaviors will get them approval from other unschoolers.
A better way to be is to decide to make conscious decisions as many times a day as possible (sometimes five or ten will do it; other days might need 200), and to learn to sort through one's own prejudices and fears and conditioned responses, over weeks and months and years, to hone the ability to choose within a range that supports one's intentions and principles.
So with doing crafts, I have questions. (Not questions you need to answer, but questions that could use consideration.)
-=-Even when it's a craft kit type of thing, we
often diverge from the way it's designed to be because he has an alternative
idea. Our craft sessions often it feels very lovely, very connecting and close,
and we both seem to be having a good time just hanging out together working on
something.-=-
Schools have "craft sessions" because then they can check off "small motor coordination" and "used glue" and "used scissors" because they have a curriculum and a set of expected proficiencies to meet. Also, they want something physical for the kids to send home so the parents think school days are productive.
If what is produced didn't *need* to be produced, though--if it's the production of junk the kids didn't really want to make and the parents aren't wildly excited about receiving--then the children are getting confusing messages about both process and product.
So behind the question of whether it's okay for the child to only want to watch is the question of the purpose for the crafts session in the first place. If he doesn't want to do it, is the craft itself fulfilling a purpose that will lead to a better relationship between child and parent? Might it be better to do something less permanent--sand or mud play, or playdough, or painting with water on a wall or hot sidewalk (not the season for it in England, but some places, and some other times)? Chalk that can be washed off ? Fingerpaints in the tub?
If the mom is frustrated and the child is saying "I don't want to do it; you do it," perhaps another activity would be better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That works with unschooling, too. :-)
People who find ways to be around other unschooling families can note behaviors they want to emulate, and maybe some they want to avoid, and by picturing those things working through in their own family, they gain a larger range of options when they make choices.
If people don't decide to make choices, or practice choosing, consciously, many times a day, they can't make that progress.
Some people decide once to "be unschoolers" and then try to figure out which behaviors will get them approval from other unschoolers.
A better way to be is to decide to make conscious decisions as many times a day as possible (sometimes five or ten will do it; other days might need 200), and to learn to sort through one's own prejudices and fears and conditioned responses, over weeks and months and years, to hone the ability to choose within a range that supports one's intentions and principles.
So with doing crafts, I have questions. (Not questions you need to answer, but questions that could use consideration.)
-=-Even when it's a craft kit type of thing, we
often diverge from the way it's designed to be because he has an alternative
idea. Our craft sessions often it feels very lovely, very connecting and close,
and we both seem to be having a good time just hanging out together working on
something.-=-
Schools have "craft sessions" because then they can check off "small motor coordination" and "used glue" and "used scissors" because they have a curriculum and a set of expected proficiencies to meet. Also, they want something physical for the kids to send home so the parents think school days are productive.
If what is produced didn't *need* to be produced, though--if it's the production of junk the kids didn't really want to make and the parents aren't wildly excited about receiving--then the children are getting confusing messages about both process and product.
So behind the question of whether it's okay for the child to only want to watch is the question of the purpose for the crafts session in the first place. If he doesn't want to do it, is the craft itself fulfilling a purpose that will lead to a better relationship between child and parent? Might it be better to do something less permanent--sand or mud play, or playdough, or painting with water on a wall or hot sidewalk (not the season for it in England, but some places, and some other times)? Chalk that can be washed off ? Fingerpaints in the tub?
If the mom is frustrated and the child is saying "I don't want to do it; you do it," perhaps another activity would be better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mightylittledude
Hi,
Just a few quick thoughts - my son is similar in that he will often ask me to draw for him, exclusively. From a very early age, I had a lot of input from a close relative telling me I was damaging my son's artistic expression, since he was not drawing himself...but finally I figured out (with supportive help from others) that it really was not damaging him in any way at all. It was a wonderful way to be close and communicate and explore. My son now does also do his own drawings, and will still ask me to draw for him too, after a good few years of me doing all the drawing.
Also, if your son is free to be expressive in other ways, then it's maybe (in my opinion) not so very important to be expressive through any particular medium. So a pencil or crayons or paint on paper may not be such a top priority with some children as, say, story telling or Lego. That was my thought at the time. I think my critical relative's experience was a classic academic school experience, and art was the only real means of free expression they had, and that gave it a certain huge weighty gravitas...and a skewed importance.
One last thought - sometimes my son wants to colour in drawings but doesn't like how his colouring goes outside the lines. Sometimes I mask off the edges of drawings (with masking tape, but there are other things you can use like masking fluid or card stencils). Other times I offer to cut out the picture once he has coloured it in (which cuts away the 'stray' lines). He sometimes will opt for one of those options, or art directing, or doing his own art, or a combination. And sometimes he will join in a picture I start.
All the best,
Cornelia
Just a few quick thoughts - my son is similar in that he will often ask me to draw for him, exclusively. From a very early age, I had a lot of input from a close relative telling me I was damaging my son's artistic expression, since he was not drawing himself...but finally I figured out (with supportive help from others) that it really was not damaging him in any way at all. It was a wonderful way to be close and communicate and explore. My son now does also do his own drawings, and will still ask me to draw for him too, after a good few years of me doing all the drawing.
Also, if your son is free to be expressive in other ways, then it's maybe (in my opinion) not so very important to be expressive through any particular medium. So a pencil or crayons or paint on paper may not be such a top priority with some children as, say, story telling or Lego. That was my thought at the time. I think my critical relative's experience was a classic academic school experience, and art was the only real means of free expression they had, and that gave it a certain huge weighty gravitas...and a skewed importance.
One last thought - sometimes my son wants to colour in drawings but doesn't like how his colouring goes outside the lines. Sometimes I mask off the edges of drawings (with masking tape, but there are other things you can use like masking fluid or card stencils). Other times I offer to cut out the picture once he has coloured it in (which cuts away the 'stray' lines). He sometimes will opt for one of those options, or art directing, or doing his own art, or a combination. And sometimes he will join in a picture I start.
All the best,
Cornelia
Lisa
I really like Karen's reply here, because this has been my experience too.
When my son was 5 or so, we got our first video game system. I was a gamer as a teen so I liked video games, and we were a bit bored so we were looking for some new experiences.
For about a year - maybe a bit more, "we" would play video games every evening for about 6 hours straight. Which meant I would play, and he would watch, and we would refer to the gameplay as something "we" were doing. He took as much ownership in beating the game as I did.
Now, he's an excellent gamer - EXCELLENT. He's 8, and his skills far exceed what mine ever will.
He also loves to watch people play video games on youtube. That's normally how he finds new games to play is he watches someone play it first on youtube. He's not interested in much he hasn't already seen someone else play.
And the funny thing is, he can pick up any game and be good at it immediately. There's none of that awkward trying and dying phase. He just gets in there and plays well from the beginning.
He also did this with bike riding.
When he was 7 I decided he needed to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels because we were in Idaho by ourselves and didn't have a car and we needed to walk about 3 miles every day to our friends house. I thought it would be easier than his scooter and we didn't have a bike with training wheels and I wasn't going to get him one because some "bike expert" had told me that getting a kid training wheels was the worst thing you could ever do if you wanted them to learn how to ride a bike. (what a horrible mistake that was listening to that man)
I took him out and put him on the bike and tried to teach him. He had no interest whatsoever and didn't even try to learn. I gave up. Eventually I got him a nice bike with training wheels.
6 months later, he hops on one of his friend's bikes without training wheels and rides it down the driveway no problem. He didn't even wobble. !!!!!
Last night, after reading Karen's message about Ethan thinking about how to ride a bike, I read it to Joe, my son, and asked him what he thought about it. He got really excited and said YES, this is how he learns! He thinks a LOT about things.
I asked him if he sits and thinks about it actively or if it's something that happens while he's doing other things.
He said his brain thinks about it while he's doing other things, like watching youtube or sleeping.
My son doesn't like to go through awkward phases of not being good at something, and honestly, he doesn't. He doesn't pick anything up or try anything until he's sure he can be good at it.
It sometimes can be frustrating to me because he's not willing to try much that he hasn't initiated, but when I think about it in this way, it's a good frustration-reducing strategy.
Lisa
When my son was 5 or so, we got our first video game system. I was a gamer as a teen so I liked video games, and we were a bit bored so we were looking for some new experiences.
For about a year - maybe a bit more, "we" would play video games every evening for about 6 hours straight. Which meant I would play, and he would watch, and we would refer to the gameplay as something "we" were doing. He took as much ownership in beating the game as I did.
Now, he's an excellent gamer - EXCELLENT. He's 8, and his skills far exceed what mine ever will.
He also loves to watch people play video games on youtube. That's normally how he finds new games to play is he watches someone play it first on youtube. He's not interested in much he hasn't already seen someone else play.
And the funny thing is, he can pick up any game and be good at it immediately. There's none of that awkward trying and dying phase. He just gets in there and plays well from the beginning.
He also did this with bike riding.
When he was 7 I decided he needed to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels because we were in Idaho by ourselves and didn't have a car and we needed to walk about 3 miles every day to our friends house. I thought it would be easier than his scooter and we didn't have a bike with training wheels and I wasn't going to get him one because some "bike expert" had told me that getting a kid training wheels was the worst thing you could ever do if you wanted them to learn how to ride a bike. (what a horrible mistake that was listening to that man)
I took him out and put him on the bike and tried to teach him. He had no interest whatsoever and didn't even try to learn. I gave up. Eventually I got him a nice bike with training wheels.
6 months later, he hops on one of his friend's bikes without training wheels and rides it down the driveway no problem. He didn't even wobble. !!!!!
Last night, after reading Karen's message about Ethan thinking about how to ride a bike, I read it to Joe, my son, and asked him what he thought about it. He got really excited and said YES, this is how he learns! He thinks a LOT about things.
I asked him if he sits and thinks about it actively or if it's something that happens while he's doing other things.
He said his brain thinks about it while he's doing other things, like watching youtube or sleeping.
My son doesn't like to go through awkward phases of not being good at something, and honestly, he doesn't. He doesn't pick anything up or try anything until he's sure he can be good at it.
It sometimes can be frustrating to me because he's not willing to try much that he hasn't initiated, but when I think about it in this way, it's a good frustration-reducing strategy.
Lisa
> I thought this was really interesting when I read it, because I used to remark to people that Ethan often wanted to watch me do things for a long time before doing them himself. This was curious to me. Even when playing a new video game that he was excited about, he would (and still will) often prefer to watch me for a good while first, before tackling it himself. In fact, he watched me ride my bike forever before he decided to give it a try. He used to ask me to ride around and around on the driveway at our house. Then, when he did try, he got it almost immediately, and told everyone who asked that he got it because he thought about it for a long time first. I didn't really understand how you could learn to ride a bike by thinking about it first, but now I believe a lot of learning (with Ethan, anyway) may happen vicariously...like learning to talk.
>
jo kirby
Thank you to all for sharing these experiences and points-of-view, they have helped me find further peace of mind in this area. It has always felt right to do the things my son asked me to willingly and happily, and not refuse or push him to do them himself. Now I have a better understanding of why this felt right.
I have also realised that I can use this technique myself!- something which I had never thought of before. As some of you said, we were taught to 'do it ourselves' and 'try our best' at all costs...
We are soon to be getting a piano. It's at my request, although I have never played in my life, but I have fingers that like to move and I have always fancied trying. I was thinking I wouldn't get lessons (not straight away at least...) but everyone I mention it to immediately looks at me rather crossly and says "oh, you'll need a good teacher!" (especially as you've never played before!). I just don't want to get a teacher. I want to try by myself. I want to watch Youtube videos of people playing and see what happens. This discussion has given me more confidence that this crazy idea is at least worth trying...!
The crux of the reason I don't want to get a teacher is because I don't want to be put off, either by their personality, style of communication or by my not being able to do it 'properly'. I want to start off privately, not in front of an 'expert', who gets to grade my efforts.
All the best,
Jo
________________________________
From: Lisa <lisa@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 20:07
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Helping young children
I really like Karen's reply here, because this has been my experience too.
When my son was 5 or so, we got our first video game system. I was a gamer as a teen so I liked video games, and we were a bit bored so we were looking for some new experiences.
For about a year - maybe a bit more, "we" would play video games every evening for about 6 hours straight. Which meant I would play, and he would watch, and we would refer to the gameplay as something "we" were doing. He took as much ownership in beating the game as I did.
Now, he's an excellent gamer - EXCELLENT. He's 8, and his skills far exceed what mine ever will.
He also loves to watch people play video games on youtube. That's normally how he finds new games to play is he watches someone play it first on youtube. He's not interested in much he hasn't already seen someone else play.
And the funny thing is, he can pick up any game and be good at it immediately. There's none of that awkward trying and dying phase. He just gets in there and plays well from the beginning.
He also did this with bike riding.
When he was 7 I decided he needed to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels because we were in Idaho by ourselves and didn't have a car and we needed to walk about 3 miles every day to our friends house. I thought it would be easier than his scooter and we didn't have a bike with training wheels and I wasn't going to get him one because some "bike expert" had told me that getting a kid training wheels was the worst thing you could ever do if you wanted them to learn how to ride a bike. (what a horrible mistake that was listening to that man)
I took him out and put him on the bike and tried to teach him. He had no interest whatsoever and didn't even try to learn. I gave up. Eventually I got him a nice bike with training wheels.
6 months later, he hops on one of his friend's bikes without training wheels and rides it down the driveway no problem. He didn't even wobble. !!!!!
Last night, after reading Karen's message about Ethan thinking about how to ride a bike, I read it to Joe, my son, and asked him what he thought about it. He got really excited and said YES, this is how he learns! He thinks a LOT about things.
I asked him if he sits and thinks about it actively or if it's something that happens while he's doing other things.
He said his brain thinks about it while he's doing other things, like watching youtube or sleeping.
My son doesn't like to go through awkward phases of not being good at something, and honestly, he doesn't. He doesn't pick anything up or try anything until he's sure he can be good at it.
It sometimes can be frustrating to me because he's not willing to try much that he hasn't initiated, but when I think about it in this way, it's a good frustration-reducing strategy.
Lisa
I have also realised that I can use this technique myself!- something which I had never thought of before. As some of you said, we were taught to 'do it ourselves' and 'try our best' at all costs...
We are soon to be getting a piano. It's at my request, although I have never played in my life, but I have fingers that like to move and I have always fancied trying. I was thinking I wouldn't get lessons (not straight away at least...) but everyone I mention it to immediately looks at me rather crossly and says "oh, you'll need a good teacher!" (especially as you've never played before!). I just don't want to get a teacher. I want to try by myself. I want to watch Youtube videos of people playing and see what happens. This discussion has given me more confidence that this crazy idea is at least worth trying...!
The crux of the reason I don't want to get a teacher is because I don't want to be put off, either by their personality, style of communication or by my not being able to do it 'properly'. I want to start off privately, not in front of an 'expert', who gets to grade my efforts.
All the best,
Jo
________________________________
From: Lisa <lisa@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 20:07
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Helping young children
I really like Karen's reply here, because this has been my experience too.
When my son was 5 or so, we got our first video game system. I was a gamer as a teen so I liked video games, and we were a bit bored so we were looking for some new experiences.
For about a year - maybe a bit more, "we" would play video games every evening for about 6 hours straight. Which meant I would play, and he would watch, and we would refer to the gameplay as something "we" were doing. He took as much ownership in beating the game as I did.
Now, he's an excellent gamer - EXCELLENT. He's 8, and his skills far exceed what mine ever will.
He also loves to watch people play video games on youtube. That's normally how he finds new games to play is he watches someone play it first on youtube. He's not interested in much he hasn't already seen someone else play.
And the funny thing is, he can pick up any game and be good at it immediately. There's none of that awkward trying and dying phase. He just gets in there and plays well from the beginning.
He also did this with bike riding.
When he was 7 I decided he needed to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels because we were in Idaho by ourselves and didn't have a car and we needed to walk about 3 miles every day to our friends house. I thought it would be easier than his scooter and we didn't have a bike with training wheels and I wasn't going to get him one because some "bike expert" had told me that getting a kid training wheels was the worst thing you could ever do if you wanted them to learn how to ride a bike. (what a horrible mistake that was listening to that man)
I took him out and put him on the bike and tried to teach him. He had no interest whatsoever and didn't even try to learn. I gave up. Eventually I got him a nice bike with training wheels.
6 months later, he hops on one of his friend's bikes without training wheels and rides it down the driveway no problem. He didn't even wobble. !!!!!
Last night, after reading Karen's message about Ethan thinking about how to ride a bike, I read it to Joe, my son, and asked him what he thought about it. He got really excited and said YES, this is how he learns! He thinks a LOT about things.
I asked him if he sits and thinks about it actively or if it's something that happens while he's doing other things.
He said his brain thinks about it while he's doing other things, like watching youtube or sleeping.
My son doesn't like to go through awkward phases of not being good at something, and honestly, he doesn't. He doesn't pick anything up or try anything until he's sure he can be good at it.
It sometimes can be frustrating to me because he's not willing to try much that he hasn't initiated, but when I think about it in this way, it's a good frustration-reducing strategy.
Lisa
> I thought this was really interesting when I read it, because I used to remark to people that Ethan often wanted to watch me do things for a long time before doing them himself. This was curious to me. Even when playing a new video game that he was excited about, he would (and still will) often prefer to watch me for a good while first, before tackling it himself. In fact, he watched me ride my bike forever before he decided to give it a try. He used to ask me to ride around and around on the driveway at our house. Then, when he did try, he got it almost immediately, and told everyone who asked that he got it because he thought about it for a long time first. I didn't really understand how you could learn to ride a bike by thinking about it first, but now I believe a lot of learning (with Ethan, anyway) may happen vicariously...like learning to talk.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Lovelyjessie82
--- I just don't want to get a teacher. I want to try by myself. I want to watch Youtube videos of people playing and see what happens. This discussion has given me more confidence that this crazy idea is at least worth trying...!!---
I wish that I hadn't have had lessons growing up, or that they had been more relaxed and I had been asked what *I* wanted to learn. When I was about 5, I started playing songs by ear on my little toy piano. My parents did the natural thing for many parents to do and put me in piano lessons. My teacher was wonderfully nice, but she didn't encourage experimentation. She wanted me to learn how to read music, so I wasn't allowed to watch her hands as she played, that way I couldn't "cheat". I only learned classical music, which isn't a passion of mine, but I almost pursued a piano performance degree in college because I wanted to continue playing music, but didn't know how. So I'm just now, at 30, trying to figure out my relationship to music. In contrast to that, my husband learned how to play the guitar on his own, and experiences a lot of freedom and joy from what he writes and plays.
Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wish that I hadn't have had lessons growing up, or that they had been more relaxed and I had been asked what *I* wanted to learn. When I was about 5, I started playing songs by ear on my little toy piano. My parents did the natural thing for many parents to do and put me in piano lessons. My teacher was wonderfully nice, but she didn't encourage experimentation. She wanted me to learn how to read music, so I wasn't allowed to watch her hands as she played, that way I couldn't "cheat". I only learned classical music, which isn't a passion of mine, but I almost pursued a piano performance degree in college because I wanted to continue playing music, but didn't know how. So I'm just now, at 30, trying to figure out my relationship to music. In contrast to that, my husband learned how to play the guitar on his own, and experiences a lot of freedom and joy from what he writes and plays.
Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Suzie
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Thank you very much for this piece of clarity! Itâs something I have been stuck on for a while. My son is a similar age to the original posterâs. He very often doesnât want to try new things unless he is sure he can be successful on the first go. I have had the assumption that children learn by trying, making mistakes, trying again, making more mistakes, until they become adept at the particular skill they are wanting to master. Learning by error, I suppose. And I have been worrying about it, as with my son this doesnât seem to be the case at all. I presumed that it was a lack confidence that was preventing him trying or persisting with something, but perhaps it is more developmental? Often he can suddenly do something with no apparent effort or practice.
He does becomes incredibly frustrated and intense when things are not going according to his plan, even if itâs me who is making the mistake when I am trying to help him. He will sometimes scream at me, or give up and say âI canât do it!!â, or become angry and throw something, or bang on the computer/mouse if itâs a game. This is particularly true if I ask him if he wants to a go. He tends to be a bit of a perfectionist. Itâs difficult to reach him when heâs angry in this explosive way. I have tried asking him to breath, but he often refuses. I try and explain later on that he canât do such and such a thing YET and that one day he will be able to do it. I remind him of things he can now do that he used to struggle with. Sometimes I say that practice will help, but now after reading some of the posts I wonder if this is a myth about learning and has been making it worse? Am I drawing attention to an end result? I find myself becoming frustrated with his frustration, which clearly is not helping! Iâd be really grateful to know how others would handle anger in young children over similar issues. Do I need to back off? Change activity? Am I expecting too much of him not to be angry and frustrated? The potential destructiveness of his anger bothers me.
Thanks very much,
Suzie
> It took me a long time to be okay with the fact that sometimes I need to watch someone else do something in order to learn. Outside of academics, there's an overwhelming expectation that the way to learn is to try <***********************
Thank you very much for this piece of clarity! Itâs something I have been stuck on for a while. My son is a similar age to the original posterâs. He very often doesnât want to try new things unless he is sure he can be successful on the first go. I have had the assumption that children learn by trying, making mistakes, trying again, making more mistakes, until they become adept at the particular skill they are wanting to master. Learning by error, I suppose. And I have been worrying about it, as with my son this doesnât seem to be the case at all. I presumed that it was a lack confidence that was preventing him trying or persisting with something, but perhaps it is more developmental? Often he can suddenly do something with no apparent effort or practice.
He does becomes incredibly frustrated and intense when things are not going according to his plan, even if itâs me who is making the mistake when I am trying to help him. He will sometimes scream at me, or give up and say âI canât do it!!â, or become angry and throw something, or bang on the computer/mouse if itâs a game. This is particularly true if I ask him if he wants to a go. He tends to be a bit of a perfectionist. Itâs difficult to reach him when heâs angry in this explosive way. I have tried asking him to breath, but he often refuses. I try and explain later on that he canât do such and such a thing YET and that one day he will be able to do it. I remind him of things he can now do that he used to struggle with. Sometimes I say that practice will help, but now after reading some of the posts I wonder if this is a myth about learning and has been making it worse? Am I drawing attention to an end result? I find myself becoming frustrated with his frustration, which clearly is not helping! Iâd be really grateful to know how others would handle anger in young children over similar issues. Do I need to back off? Change activity? Am I expecting too much of him not to be angry and frustrated? The potential destructiveness of his anger bothers me.
Thanks very much,
Suzie
Sandra Dodd
-=- She wanted me to learn how to read music, so I wasn't allowed to watch her hands as she played, that way I couldn't "cheat". -=-
This is very sad.
I could read music before I could read English. It was the 1950's, and people did press those lessons on any kid who showed musical interest. It caused many people to decide they didn't like music after all. :-/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is very sad.
I could read music before I could read English. It was the 1950's, and people did press those lessons on any kid who showed musical interest. It caused many people to decide they didn't like music after all. :-/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have had the assumption that children learn by trying, making mistakes, trying again, making more mistakes, until they become adept at the particular skill they are wanting to master. Learning by error, I suppose. And I have been worrying about it, as with my son this doesn�t seem to be the case at all. I presumed that it was a lack confidence that was preventing him trying or persisting with something, but perhaps it is more developmental? Often he can suddenly do something with no apparent effort or practice.-=-
Some things can't be learned just by watching. That creates a passive knowledge, but not an active knowledge.
Unschooling, for example. Watching others can be very helpful, but can't replace trying it until you can do it yourself. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some things can't be learned just by watching. That creates a passive knowledge, but not an active knowledge.
Unschooling, for example. Watching others can be very helpful, but can't replace trying it until you can do it yourself. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"Suzie" <suzepetch@...> wrote:
Maybe don't offer - let him be the one to decide without prompting. Some kids get frustrated more easily than others. It doesn't mean they'll always be frustrated, or always give up. Mo will give up on games, for instance, and come back to them months later. She's given up on riding her bike several times and come back to it again.
If he's screaming and banging things, I'd focus on trying to de-escalate the situation however works for your son - with Mo that often means I'll offer a quick, one or two word apology and then back off a little - not leave, but get out of her personal space and give her time to cool down. Sometimes I'll suggest she take a break or ask if she wants a snack, but generally those aren't helpful if she's already worked up. I do make sure she doesn't break things she cares about - the controller or mouse, for instance.
---Meredith
>I have had the assumption that children learn by tryingThat's One way people learn. Most people learn several different ways - sometimes at once, sometimes one, then the other - watching, then trying, then watching again, for instance.
>>He will sometimes scream at me, or give up and say âI canât do it!!â, or become angry and throw something, or bang on the computer/mouse if itâs a game. This is particularly true if I ask him if he wants to a go.**************
Maybe don't offer - let him be the one to decide without prompting. Some kids get frustrated more easily than others. It doesn't mean they'll always be frustrated, or always give up. Mo will give up on games, for instance, and come back to them months later. She's given up on riding her bike several times and come back to it again.
If he's screaming and banging things, I'd focus on trying to de-escalate the situation however works for your son - with Mo that often means I'll offer a quick, one or two word apology and then back off a little - not leave, but get out of her personal space and give her time to cool down. Sometimes I'll suggest she take a break or ask if she wants a snack, but generally those aren't helpful if she's already worked up. I do make sure she doesn't break things she cares about - the controller or mouse, for instance.
---Meredith
Pam Sorooshian
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Suzie <suzepetch@...> wrote:
that do not have an "end product." Imaginative play is what comes to mind
as the main thing. Martial arts has "progression" but there really is never
a time it is done and finished and everyone is always working on their own
thing at their own level. Acting/singing, maybe? Roller skating/ice skating
(not sports - there is too much "judging" of how good a kid is). Going
swimming - free swim, not competitive swim team. I'm sure you can come up
with more ideas.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sometimes I say that practice will help, but now after reading some of theI would try to find many many more activities for him to be involved in
> posts I wonder if this is a myth about learning and has been making it
> worse? Am I drawing attention to an end result?
that do not have an "end product." Imaginative play is what comes to mind
as the main thing. Martial arts has "progression" but there really is never
a time it is done and finished and everyone is always working on their own
thing at their own level. Acting/singing, maybe? Roller skating/ice skating
(not sports - there is too much "judging" of how good a kid is). Going
swimming - free swim, not competitive swim team. I'm sure you can come up
with more ideas.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
>>>>> He does becomes incredibly frustrated and intense when things are not going according to his plan, even if itâs me who is making the mistake when I am trying to help him. He will sometimes scream at me, or give up and say âI canât do it!!<<<<<I have talked with Ethan about how mistakes can lead people in some interesting new directions. But, I don't talk about this when he is frustrated...maybe the next day, or a few days later. One example he really liked was that Edison made over a thousand mistakes before he finally made a working lightbulb. There is also a nice book called "Mistakes That Worked." It is about mistakes that led to inventions that changed the world. Ethan also really likes the movie "Meet the Robinsons" which is about learning to celebrate mistakes. It might help your son to see mistakes as an important part of the process of achieving any goal.
Karen.
Tori
--- In [email protected], jo kirby <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
Tori
>Oh yes, do just go ahead a begin to play! I studied piano with good teachers for years and even taught beginners for a few years. Although I love music, can sight read and have a pretty good ear I don't play nearly so beautifully as my husband who has never had a formal lesson. There are many ways to learn and you'll know when there is something you need from someone else. Even then there are many options besides hiring a teacher to give you traditional lessons. Meanwhile enjoy moving those fingers!
> The crux of the reason I don't want to get a teacher is because I don't want to be put off, either by their personality, style of communication or by my not being able to do it 'properly'. I want to start off privately, not in front of an 'expert', who gets to grade my efforts.
>
Tori
Suzie
Thank you everyone who replied to my post! I really appreciate all of the suggestions and I think they will help a great deal. We are new to unschooling, and I have been reading this list constantly since the beginning of the summer - it's fantastic to have some help with clearing my fog.
Suzie
Suzie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:02 AM, Suzie wrote:
By this point he knows practice will help. Just because someone isn't doing something doesn't mean they don't know! It's a pretty obvious idea that anyone can figure out from life ;-) But he wants the end point, and the process getting there doesn't look appealing to him.
That's okay. Some kids will be called lazy for wanting something but not wanting to put the work into it. It's not lazy if the process getting to something isn't worth the end product. I really like ice cream but I won't climb Mt Everest for it ;-) And it may be it feels like that to him.
My husband is playing lots and lots of chess games on the computer. He's watching his chess rating go up slowly because of it. Practice does help. But he's practicing -- *playing* -- because he enjoys the chess games *and* he has some ongoing feedback that he's improving.
I would love to know Japanese and how to play the guitar. But the process of getting there, even with some fun things I have, isn't as much fun as other things I can spend my time on. I do other things like writing that take effort but the effort is also enjoyable and satisfying so it's worth it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sometimes I say that practice will help, but now after readingHe will benefit more from exploring and doing what he enjoys than from "practicing".
> some of the posts I wonder if this is a myth about learning
> and has been making it worse?
By this point he knows practice will help. Just because someone isn't doing something doesn't mean they don't know! It's a pretty obvious idea that anyone can figure out from life ;-) But he wants the end point, and the process getting there doesn't look appealing to him.
That's okay. Some kids will be called lazy for wanting something but not wanting to put the work into it. It's not lazy if the process getting to something isn't worth the end product. I really like ice cream but I won't climb Mt Everest for it ;-) And it may be it feels like that to him.
My husband is playing lots and lots of chess games on the computer. He's watching his chess rating go up slowly because of it. Practice does help. But he's practicing -- *playing* -- because he enjoys the chess games *and* he has some ongoing feedback that he's improving.
I would love to know Japanese and how to play the guitar. But the process of getting there, even with some fun things I have, isn't as much fun as other things I can spend my time on. I do other things like writing that take effort but the effort is also enjoyable and satisfying so it's worth it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Suzie
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> That's okay. Some kids will be called lazy for wanting something but not wanting to put the work into it. It's not lazy if the process getting to something isn't worth the end product. I really like ice cream but I won't climb Mt Everest for it ;-) And it may be it feels like that to him.I think the process in itself is often appealing to him. For example he does enjoy playing computer games, but when he is struggling to get to the next bit the intensity of his emotions seem to overwhelm him. His emotions overwhelm me too if I'm honest and I do sometime react negatively. So it seems to me that his frustration and mine are not making the journey as happy as it could be. Or is it all part of the same thing and I'm splitting hairs?
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think the process in itself is often appealing to him. For example he does enjoy playing computer games, but when he is struggling to get to the next bit the intensity of his emotions seem to overwhelm him. His emotions overwhelm me too if I'm honest and I do sometime react negatively. So it seems to me that his frustration and mine are not making the journey as happy as it could be. Or is it all part of the same thing and I'm splitting hairs?-=-
I have two kids of three who expressed emotion freely in such situations. I can share a couple of things I did, but I wanted to ask about this first:
-=-His emotions overwhelm me too if I'm honest and I do sometime react negatively. -=-
"If I'm honest"?
Would there be a way not to be honest?
Some moms recommend accepting and encouraging all the emotional outpouring a kid can produce, but I didn't do that myself. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes it's too much for a situation where other people are involved or affected. Very often, though, parents think they somehow have the right to have everything their way, and that's not a good way to be. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have two kids of three who expressed emotion freely in such situations. I can share a couple of things I did, but I wanted to ask about this first:
-=-His emotions overwhelm me too if I'm honest and I do sometime react negatively. -=-
"If I'm honest"?
Would there be a way not to be honest?
Some moms recommend accepting and encouraging all the emotional outpouring a kid can produce, but I didn't do that myself. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes it's too much for a situation where other people are involved or affected. Very often, though, parents think they somehow have the right to have everything their way, and that's not a good way to be. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Suzie
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Thanks
Suzie
> "If I'm honest"?I didnât phrase that very well, sorry. I am being honest. I feel bad that I donât handle his frustrations better than I do. He can move from peaceful to explosive in an instant and it scares me. Iâm not sure how to help him without making the situation worse and inflaming his anger. I donât feel I have enough tools in these situations and I am so preoccupied trying to stay calm myself, rather than focusing on my son.
> Would there be a way not to be honest? <
> Some moms recommend accepting and encouraging all the emotional outpouring a kid can produce, but I didn't do that myself. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes it's too much for a situation where other people are involved or affected. <If we are out and about, or have friends/family visiting, it can feel out of control if he screams or is angry about something or someone. Often he is more emotional because we are with others, particularly if itâs in our home and particularly if itâs an unexpected visit. I think he feels out of control of the situation and his behaviour becomes more challenging. How do I help in these situations? At the moment I feel ineffectual. I would like people to be able to come into our home and feel comfortable and welcome.
Thanks
Suzie
Pam Sorooshian
You should read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. I'm not saying you
should follow every bit of advice in that book, but the ideas will be
useful for you as you develop your own "tools."
You might be looking for a kind of advice you're not likely to get here -
something that will "fix" your child. Instead, what you're getting are ways
for you to change yourself, to change the way you are thinking. When you do
that, you will be able to come up with your own ways to respond to him to
make life more smooth, easy, and joyful.
-pam
should follow every bit of advice in that book, but the ideas will be
useful for you as you develop your own "tools."
You might be looking for a kind of advice you're not likely to get here -
something that will "fix" your child. Instead, what you're getting are ways
for you to change yourself, to change the way you are thinking. When you do
that, you will be able to come up with your own ways to respond to him to
make life more smooth, easy, and joyful.
-pam
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Suzie <suzepetch@...> wrote:
> He can move from peaceful to explosive in an instant and it scares me. Im
> not sure how to help him without making the situation worse and inflaming
> his anger. I dont feel I have enough tools in these situations and I am so
> preoccupied trying to stay calm myself, rather than focusing on my son.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
delphini004
> or perhaps a program like KidPix where he can fill in pictures with colors of his choice using a "paint bucket" of the style used in draw/art/edit programs.When my children were young, they loved www.coloriage.com (http://www.coloring.fr/) to fill up every part of the online coloring page of the day with colors. What's really funny with this website is that when you click on a flag at the bottom, on the left, you see the names of the colors in a different language. My children enjoyed as much coloring and recoloring with other colors on the same page several times each morning, and changed the language to learn the names of colors in Spanish, for example.
>
Edith
zurro
I remember when I used to feel frustrated because Caitlyn would ask me to draw things she couldn't - I had the misguided worry that she wouldn't find her own creative ways to draw...that period is thankfully behind us.
Video gaming got me thinking about Caitlyn and her Pokepark Wii game. Just a few weeks ago she couldn't pass even the most basic skill challenges - asking me or her dad to do them for her. After putting in a lot of hours watching her dad and his techniques, as well as the different ones I use, she is now able to out battle us and spent the weekend screaming with excitement because she could now finish the attractions and telling us to watch how she does it so we can do better.
I couldn't help also thinking about how so many things are learned through watching others do it. Things that come to mind off the top of my head - an herbalist or a doctor or a plumber.
Finally, Mo's comments (and her blog post) about not having the be the one to execute something connected with me as I was reading this post. I was watching the final challenge of Face Off (for those of you who aren't familiar it's a competition show for special effects makeup artists). So in the final challenge they brought back some of the contestants who didn't make it to the finale and they worked in teams with the final four. The guy who won utilized a couple of techniques that one of his team members came up with, and let that person be the one to execute the technique.
I think there is as much value in the guiding as there is in the doing.
Laura Z
Video gaming got me thinking about Caitlyn and her Pokepark Wii game. Just a few weeks ago she couldn't pass even the most basic skill challenges - asking me or her dad to do them for her. After putting in a lot of hours watching her dad and his techniques, as well as the different ones I use, she is now able to out battle us and spent the weekend screaming with excitement because she could now finish the attractions and telling us to watch how she does it so we can do better.
I couldn't help also thinking about how so many things are learned through watching others do it. Things that come to mind off the top of my head - an herbalist or a doctor or a plumber.
Finally, Mo's comments (and her blog post) about not having the be the one to execute something connected with me as I was reading this post. I was watching the final challenge of Face Off (for those of you who aren't familiar it's a competition show for special effects makeup artists). So in the final challenge they brought back some of the contestants who didn't make it to the finale and they worked in teams with the final four. The guy who won utilized a couple of techniques that one of his team members came up with, and let that person be the one to execute the technique.
I think there is as much value in the guiding as there is in the doing.
Laura Z
zurro
I remember when I used to feel frustrated because Caitlyn would ask me to draw things she couldn't - I had the misguided worry that she wouldn't find her own creative ways to draw...that period is thankfully behind us.
Video gaming got me thinking about Caitlyn, who just turned 5, and her PokePark Wii game. Just a few weeks ago she couldn't pass even the most basic skill challenges - asking me or her dad to do them for her. After putting in a lot of hours watching her dad and his techniques, as well as the different ones I use, she is now able to out battle us and spent the weekend screaming with excitement because she could now finish the attractions and telling us to watch how she does it so we can do better.
I couldn't help also thinking about how so many things are learned through watching others do it. Things that come to mind off the top of my head - an herbalist or a doctor or a plumber.
Finally, Mo's comments (and her blog post) about not having the be the one to execute something connected with me as I was reading this post. I was watching the final challenge of Face Off (for those of you who aren't familiar it's a competition show for special effects makeup artists). So in the final challenge they brought back some of the contestants who didn't make it to the finale and they worked in teams with the final four. The guy who won utilized a couple of techniques that one of his team members came up with, and let that person be the one to execute the technique.
I think there is as much value in the guiding as there is in the doing.
Laura Z
Video gaming got me thinking about Caitlyn, who just turned 5, and her PokePark Wii game. Just a few weeks ago she couldn't pass even the most basic skill challenges - asking me or her dad to do them for her. After putting in a lot of hours watching her dad and his techniques, as well as the different ones I use, she is now able to out battle us and spent the weekend screaming with excitement because she could now finish the attractions and telling us to watch how she does it so we can do better.
I couldn't help also thinking about how so many things are learned through watching others do it. Things that come to mind off the top of my head - an herbalist or a doctor or a plumber.
Finally, Mo's comments (and her blog post) about not having the be the one to execute something connected with me as I was reading this post. I was watching the final challenge of Face Off (for those of you who aren't familiar it's a competition show for special effects makeup artists). So in the final challenge they brought back some of the contestants who didn't make it to the finale and they worked in teams with the final four. The guy who won utilized a couple of techniques that one of his team members came up with, and let that person be the one to execute the technique.
I think there is as much value in the guiding as there is in the doing.
Laura Z