Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this list and Unschoolingdotcom
Pam Hartley
Everyone has a point where the rubber meets the road. Racism is one of those
points with me. I would feel no less sickened if he had a link to child porn
or suggestions on how to beat women so the bruises don't show.
So, for me, it would affect it. I don't willingly hang out with people who
are proud of their racism, whatever other nice qualities they may have.
I can be around people I disagree with one some things. Not this.
Pam
----------
From: Dan Vilter <dvilter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 6:12 AM
My question is: What would you do in this situation?
I'm not asking a political or racial question here, I'm asking an
educational one.
What is the "AlwaysLearning" situation here? What would you tell your 10
year-old son? What kind of future interaction which you have with this
person? Does it affect your relationship to the club? ? ?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
points with me. I would feel no less sickened if he had a link to child porn
or suggestions on how to beat women so the bruises don't show.
So, for me, it would affect it. I don't willingly hang out with people who
are proud of their racism, whatever other nice qualities they may have.
I can be around people I disagree with one some things. Not this.
Pam
----------
From: Dan Vilter <dvilter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 6:12 AM
My question is: What would you do in this situation?
I'm not asking a political or racial question here, I'm asking an
educational one.
What is the "AlwaysLearning" situation here? What would you tell your 10
year-old son? What kind of future interaction which you have with this
person? Does it affect your relationship to the club? ? ?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
Yes, but would you put those sites in a link on your website that you give
out to people, without some kind of disclaimer?
I have nothing against Dan just asking the guy why it's there, for that
matter.
Pam
----------
From: Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 10:28 AM
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about his interest is in that site. My dh
kept the link to the God Hates Fags site, not because he agrees with it, but
because he doesn't, and finds it a useful peek at how some other people
think. I have the HSLDA and Chalcedon Foundation sites bookmarked for the
same reason: easy access to first-source material in formulating the
opposing viewpoint.
In the words of Fats Waller, "One never knows, do one?" ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
out to people, without some kind of disclaimer?
I have nothing against Dan just asking the guy why it's there, for that
matter.
Pam
----------
From: Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 10:28 AM
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about his interest is in that site. My dh
kept the link to the God Hates Fags site, not because he agrees with it, but
because he doesn't, and finds it a useful peek at how some other people
think. I have the HSLDA and Chalcedon Foundation sites bookmarked for the
same reason: easy access to first-source material in formulating the
opposing viewpoint.
In the words of Fats Waller, "One never knows, do one?" ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 4/29/02 12:48 PM, Pam Hartley at pamhartley@... wrote:
don't get why ordinary people who aren't selling stuff even HAVE sites. I
still don't even have a scanner, though I've got a mac G4 now.
Hypothetically, I would not post any links without a disclaimer. If the
robotics guy's site said "Stuff that interests me" I would take that at face
value. I'm interested in WWII, Osama bin Laden, bluegrass music, dogs of
any kind, religion, embroidery, cleaning products, TV, time management,
education, pornography, birds, politics, comic strips, weed killers,
books.... That I'm interested does not mean I'm *supportive* of everything
listed above; I might be interested in earth-friendly weed killing
alternatives, or in the wholesale slaughter of all Pit bulls and anyone who
likes them. You wouldn't know without knowing me. If I had links only to
dog sites about killing off vicious dog breeds, you'd begin to know --
unless I wrote about how wrong I think the sites are.
That's why I wouldn't jump to conclusions -- though I would certainly jump
to suspicions <g> I think, if I was really concerned, I'd ask the guy.
I've had too much recent experience with conclusion-jumping to continue
doing it.
Nancy
--
There are a thousand thoughts lying within a man that he does not know till
he takes up a pen to write.
-William Makepeace Thackeray, novelist
(1811-1863)
> Yes, but would you put those sites in a link on your website that you giveSite? ME? I'm so web-lame, I haven't even considered having a site. I
> out to people, without some kind of disclaimer?
don't get why ordinary people who aren't selling stuff even HAVE sites. I
still don't even have a scanner, though I've got a mac G4 now.
Hypothetically, I would not post any links without a disclaimer. If the
robotics guy's site said "Stuff that interests me" I would take that at face
value. I'm interested in WWII, Osama bin Laden, bluegrass music, dogs of
any kind, religion, embroidery, cleaning products, TV, time management,
education, pornography, birds, politics, comic strips, weed killers,
books.... That I'm interested does not mean I'm *supportive* of everything
listed above; I might be interested in earth-friendly weed killing
alternatives, or in the wholesale slaughter of all Pit bulls and anyone who
likes them. You wouldn't know without knowing me. If I had links only to
dog sites about killing off vicious dog breeds, you'd begin to know --
unless I wrote about how wrong I think the sites are.
That's why I wouldn't jump to conclusions -- though I would certainly jump
to suspicions <g> I think, if I was really concerned, I'd ask the guy.
I've had too much recent experience with conclusion-jumping to continue
doing it.
Nancy
--
There are a thousand thoughts lying within a man that he does not know till
he takes up a pen to write.
-William Makepeace Thackeray, novelist
(1811-1863)
Pam Hartley
There's a difference, though, between not knowing if someone is a racist and
having someone proudly point out that he's a racist. There's a
benefit-of-the-doubt factor. (Disclaimer: I am here winging cheerfully off
into the theoretical while still operating under the idea that Dan should
ask about the link -- maybe it IS just interesting to this guy the way a
train wreck is, and not his belief system).
I don't know if people are child molesters, wife beaters, racists, etc.
unless they do something to let me know. If they hide it, well, they get the
same benefit of the doubt everyone else does.
It's an imperfect system, but I think it was Maya Angelou who said, "When
people show you who they are, believe them."
Just because I can't know for sure about "everybody" doesn't mean I
shouldn't try to avoid known people who stomp all over my few firmly held
moral beliefs. (It's not hard to be my friend. I can and do like people who
eat dinner at the dining room table, send their kids to school, and own
Alaskan Malamutes).
If the spotlight method works for others, I'm not going to try to argue them
out of it, but it's not for me.
Pam
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 1:42 PM
THEN you'll have to wonder about everyone whose website does NOT have a
link.
Did they have one and just remove it to avoid offending students?
Hmmm?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
having someone proudly point out that he's a racist. There's a
benefit-of-the-doubt factor. (Disclaimer: I am here winging cheerfully off
into the theoretical while still operating under the idea that Dan should
ask about the link -- maybe it IS just interesting to this guy the way a
train wreck is, and not his belief system).
I don't know if people are child molesters, wife beaters, racists, etc.
unless they do something to let me know. If they hide it, well, they get the
same benefit of the doubt everyone else does.
It's an imperfect system, but I think it was Maya Angelou who said, "When
people show you who they are, believe them."
Just because I can't know for sure about "everybody" doesn't mean I
shouldn't try to avoid known people who stomp all over my few firmly held
moral beliefs. (It's not hard to be my friend. I can and do like people who
eat dinner at the dining room table, send their kids to school, and own
Alaskan Malamutes).
If the spotlight method works for others, I'm not going to try to argue them
out of it, but it's not for me.
Pam
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 1:42 PM
THEN you'll have to wonder about everyone whose website does NOT have a
link.
Did they have one and just remove it to avoid offending students?
Hmmm?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Tue, Apr 30, 2002, 10:50 AM
<< I'm not a governement agency, I'm allowed to judge people based on their
beliefs... it's one of the best ways to judge poeple, I think. How else
do you decide who you want to spend time with? >>
Whether they let their kids drink soda.
Whether they let their kids watch South Park or the Simpsons.
Whether they can laugh at goofy stuff without feeling too undignified.
Whether they show up on time or are somewhere between an hour and three days
late.
Whether they're nice to their dog.
I guess those are beliefs, huh?
--------------------
Sure they are. And if people want to judge me or my family on those beliefs
and decide whether they want to spend time with us based on those beliefs,
I'm all for it.
I don't want people who judge me on what *I* think of as silly things around
me anyway, so they should have at it (and quite likely a bigot or a
wife-beater feels the same way -- if they didn't think they were right, and
that black people are inferior or that their wife deserved it because she
wouldn't shut the hell up, they wouldn't do it. Or at least they wouldn't
put it on a website).
It's one reason I don't hush up at homeschooling gatherings when people say,
"I won't allow my children to have chocolate" (I say, "We have a giant big
bowl of it available all the time.") or "I won't allow my children to
associate with people who own guns ("Oh, really? My husband is a competitive
target shooter. I think he has about 10 or 12 guns.") or "I don't let my
children watch any TV but PBS." ("We love TV. Brit's favorite show is
"Survivor" but we like lots of the reality shows.") Sometimes, this is
really helpful to people who look at our kids and see normal, healthy kids,
and are capable of thinking, "Maybe chocolate and TV and all guns aren't
evil." Sometimes I am sure they run away as fast as they can.
So it's fine with me if other people want to look at what I am and find me
"evil enough" not to spend time with. If their deeply held beliefs tell them
I'm going to hell, I truly don't want to be around them anyway. I don't want
them gritting their teeth and seeking my presence just because I'm a good
dog trainer, or bake good cookies. I don't want them having to hover over me
if I speak to their child for fear I might mention and encourage Pokemon.
All I ask is that people judge me on what I really am. If they find that
lacking sorely enough, they *should* move on. If I think they're dumb for
doing so, well, that's MY opinion. Maybe I am going to hell, I won't know
for awhile (well, hopefully not for awhile! <g>)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Tue, Apr 30, 2002, 10:50 AM
<< I'm not a governement agency, I'm allowed to judge people based on their
beliefs... it's one of the best ways to judge poeple, I think. How else
do you decide who you want to spend time with? >>
Whether they let their kids drink soda.
Whether they let their kids watch South Park or the Simpsons.
Whether they can laugh at goofy stuff without feeling too undignified.
Whether they show up on time or are somewhere between an hour and three days
late.
Whether they're nice to their dog.
I guess those are beliefs, huh?
--------------------
Sure they are. And if people want to judge me or my family on those beliefs
and decide whether they want to spend time with us based on those beliefs,
I'm all for it.
I don't want people who judge me on what *I* think of as silly things around
me anyway, so they should have at it (and quite likely a bigot or a
wife-beater feels the same way -- if they didn't think they were right, and
that black people are inferior or that their wife deserved it because she
wouldn't shut the hell up, they wouldn't do it. Or at least they wouldn't
put it on a website).
It's one reason I don't hush up at homeschooling gatherings when people say,
"I won't allow my children to have chocolate" (I say, "We have a giant big
bowl of it available all the time.") or "I won't allow my children to
associate with people who own guns ("Oh, really? My husband is a competitive
target shooter. I think he has about 10 or 12 guns.") or "I don't let my
children watch any TV but PBS." ("We love TV. Brit's favorite show is
"Survivor" but we like lots of the reality shows.") Sometimes, this is
really helpful to people who look at our kids and see normal, healthy kids,
and are capable of thinking, "Maybe chocolate and TV and all guns aren't
evil." Sometimes I am sure they run away as fast as they can.
So it's fine with me if other people want to look at what I am and find me
"evil enough" not to spend time with. If their deeply held beliefs tell them
I'm going to hell, I truly don't want to be around them anyway. I don't want
them gritting their teeth and seeking my presence just because I'm a good
dog trainer, or bake good cookies. I don't want them having to hover over me
if I speak to their child for fear I might mention and encourage Pokemon.
All I ask is that people judge me on what I really am. If they find that
lacking sorely enough, they *should* move on. If I think they're dumb for
doing so, well, that's MY opinion. Maybe I am going to hell, I won't know
for awhile (well, hopefully not for awhile! <g>)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Scott P. Cook
Eeeeew! You LIKE people who have MALAMUTES? LOL
Laurel in Burke, VA
(Owner of beautiful spotty dogs who are vastly superior to those hairy
drool factories)
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Hartley [mailto:pamhartley@...]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about
this list and Unschoolingdotcom
There's a difference, though, between not knowing if someone is a racist
and
having someone proudly point out that he's a racist. There's a
benefit-of-the-doubt factor. (Disclaimer: I am here winging cheerfully
off
into the theoretical while still operating under the idea that Dan
should
ask about the link -- maybe it IS just interesting to this guy the way a
train wreck is, and not his belief system).
I don't know if people are child molesters, wife beaters, racists, etc.
unless they do something to let me know. If they hide it, well, they get
the
same benefit of the doubt everyone else does.
It's an imperfect system, but I think it was Maya Angelou who said,
"When
people show you who they are, believe them."
Just because I can't know for sure about "everybody" doesn't mean I
shouldn't try to avoid known people who stomp all over my few firmly
held
moral beliefs. (It's not hard to be my friend. I can and do like people
who
eat dinner at the dining room table, send their kids to school, and own
Alaskan Malamutes).
If the spotlight method works for others, I'm not going to try to argue
them
out of it, but it's not for me.
Pam
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about
this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 1:42 PM
THEN you'll have to wonder about everyone whose website does NOT have a
link.
Did they have one and just remove it to avoid offending students?
Hmmm?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Laurel in Burke, VA
(Owner of beautiful spotty dogs who are vastly superior to those hairy
drool factories)
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Hartley [mailto:pamhartley@...]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about
this list and Unschoolingdotcom
There's a difference, though, between not knowing if someone is a racist
and
having someone proudly point out that he's a racist. There's a
benefit-of-the-doubt factor. (Disclaimer: I am here winging cheerfully
off
into the theoretical while still operating under the idea that Dan
should
ask about the link -- maybe it IS just interesting to this guy the way a
train wreck is, and not his belief system).
I don't know if people are child molesters, wife beaters, racists, etc.
unless they do something to let me know. If they hide it, well, they get
the
same benefit of the doubt everyone else does.
It's an imperfect system, but I think it was Maya Angelou who said,
"When
people show you who they are, believe them."
Just because I can't know for sure about "everybody" doesn't mean I
shouldn't try to avoid known people who stomp all over my few firmly
held
moral beliefs. (It's not hard to be my friend. I can and do like people
who
eat dinner at the dining room table, send their kids to school, and own
Alaskan Malamutes).
If the spotlight method works for others, I'm not going to try to argue
them
out of it, but it's not for me.
Pam
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What would you do? Was: Questions about
this
list and Unschoolingdotcom
Date: Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 1:42 PM
THEN you'll have to wonder about everyone whose website does NOT have a
link.
Did they have one and just remove it to avoid offending students?
Hmmm?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
HYPERLINK
"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
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0849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account"
HYPERLINK
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pmail/S=1705542111:HM/A=1042587/rand=745933608"
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Sharon Rudd
"We have a giant big
Oh goodie!! :-)
Sharon of the Swamp
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