Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 325
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:56:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
themselves all they need to know at 16 to be successful in college. They are
learning all the time - not waiting until they are 16. That includes learning
what they need to be successful in college.
We could talk more about what it really IS that they need -- I have some
pretty strong opinions on that, based on 27 years of teaching at at least six
different colleges, ranging from large public universities to selective
private colleges to community colleges. (HINT - it isn't chemistry <BEG>)
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> <<Assuming that your kids will suddenly discover and teach themselves allUnschoolers aren't assuming that kids will suddenly discover and teach
> they need to know at 16 to be successful in college is risky IMO. Big
> dreams
> require some planning. Being highly skilled demands discipline. >>
>
themselves all they need to know at 16 to be successful in college. They are
learning all the time - not waiting until they are 16. That includes learning
what they need to be successful in college.
We could talk more about what it really IS that they need -- I have some
pretty strong opinions on that, based on 27 years of teaching at at least six
different colleges, ranging from large public universities to selective
private colleges to community colleges. (HINT - it isn't chemistry <BEG>)
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:56:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Friday, she gets herself up at about 6:30 am and gets ready, makes a lunch,
and is out the door by 7:30 for her 8 am job. On Saturday she works 10 to 2.
On Tuesdays and Thursdays she takes community college courses from 11 am to
10 pm (with some breaks, in between, of course). I don't tell her when to get
up (or go to bed) and I don't keep up with her laundry for her and I don't
know what schoolwork she has or when she has exams, etc. She's fully
responsible. She has a 3.8-something grade point average and over 60 semester
units.
I'm telling you this because you seem to assume that this will be harder for
an unschooled kid than for a schooled kid who has had to be on someone else's
schedule most of their lives. It isn't ANY harder (or easier <g>).
--pam
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[email protected] writes:
> <<Success in college or having any job requires the ability to schedule yourMy unschooled 17 yo goes to work four days a week. On Monday, Wednesday and
>
> time and being able to show up to do work even when you don't feel like it.>
> >
Friday, she gets herself up at about 6:30 am and gets ready, makes a lunch,
and is out the door by 7:30 for her 8 am job. On Saturday she works 10 to 2.
On Tuesdays and Thursdays she takes community college courses from 11 am to
10 pm (with some breaks, in between, of course). I don't tell her when to get
up (or go to bed) and I don't keep up with her laundry for her and I don't
know what schoolwork she has or when she has exams, etc. She's fully
responsible. She has a 3.8-something grade point average and over 60 semester
units.
I'm telling you this because you seem to assume that this will be harder for
an unschooled kid than for a schooled kid who has had to be on someone else's
schedule most of their lives. It isn't ANY harder (or easier <g>).
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:56:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
form of taking community college courses. Roxana is here on this list - she
started community college courses this semester, at 14. I think it is that,
for some kids, their interests get to the point that they'd prefer to study
something in a systematic way with help from someone with expertise - taking
a course is a way to do that (not the only way).
--pamS
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[email protected] writes:
> What was even more surprising was that during another session which PeterMy kids have wanted that as they got older and have gotten it largely in the
> was presenting, he and his fiance ( one of the participants from the video
> ) commented that they like homeschooling, and unschooling in the early
> years, but wished they had had more structure / guidance during the
> highschool years.
>
form of taking community college courses. Roxana is here on this list - she
started community college courses this semester, at 14. I think it is that,
for some kids, their interests get to the point that they'd prefer to study
something in a systematic way with help from someone with expertise - taking
a course is a way to do that (not the only way).
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:56:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
I didn't have the whole thing when I replied. I totally misunderstood the
point, I think.
So -- NEVERMIND!!! <G>
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Assuming that your kids will suddenly discover and teach themselves all theyI'm sorry - I got THIS message AFTER ones that quoted and replied to it - so
>
> need to know at 16 to be successful in college is risky IMO. That's the age
>
> when MANY kids first start "buckling down" and preparing for college.
> Unschooled kids may have been doing this all along if that's where their
> interests lie.
I didn't have the whole thing when I replied. I totally misunderstood the
point, I think.
So -- NEVERMIND!!! <G>
--pam
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[email protected]
In a message dated 4/23/2002 2:46:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PSoroosh@... writes:
> We could talk more about what it really IS that they need -- I have someElaborate---or wait until October!
> pretty strong opinions on that, based on 27 years of teaching at at least
> six
> different colleges, ranging from large public universities to selective
> private colleges to community colleges. (HINT - it isn't chemistry <BEG>)
>
>
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Gernerts
>I agree with this to a point, but I think some of it depends on their nature. I have two girls, one
> Unschoolers aren't assuming that kids will suddenly discover and teach
> themselves all they need to know at 16 to be successful in college. They are
> learning all the time - not waiting until they are 16. That includes learning
> what they need to be successful in college.
will always delve into a new topic that she is interested in and will 'play with it' until she is done.
The other doesn't seem to have interests that draw her in. She needs more guidance and
encouragement to broaden her horizons and interests.
Tarla
Lovehome
Throwing wrenches.
Thanks for all the great replies. You may be right about the music. I do
think some people are born to play and others need more encouragement to do
well. With practice, most people can do better at anything, but when we
discover our gifts(my dd's writing and art) our passion is awakened and
encouragement is less of an issue. The unschooling idea is new to me. Maybe
my future grandchildren.
'The wide boulevards of opportunity'--very nice. 'Many doors opened' has
been my common perception, but even that visual seems limiting in
comparison.
Perhaps my dd's dreams don't require a college degree, but the document
usually raises earning potential. The lack of one has seemed an obstacle to
me, even with lots of credits.
Your stories inspire. Unschooling cultivates that natural curiosity and
commitment many ps kids have squashed, must struggle to maintain or discover
again afterward. Unschooling does prepare kids for college or whatever they
want to do. The actual learning ability is what colleges and employers are
looking for anyway.
My point that some kids may need specific skill building to do well in their
chosen fields was kind of lost. Opening a discussion with my wrench was the
hope though<g>. Keep those stories of the older kids' experiences coming.
They encourage the rest of us and lay to rest our uncertainties.
Collette
Thanks for all the great replies. You may be right about the music. I do
think some people are born to play and others need more encouragement to do
well. With practice, most people can do better at anything, but when we
discover our gifts(my dd's writing and art) our passion is awakened and
encouragement is less of an issue. The unschooling idea is new to me. Maybe
my future grandchildren.
'The wide boulevards of opportunity'--very nice. 'Many doors opened' has
been my common perception, but even that visual seems limiting in
comparison.
Perhaps my dd's dreams don't require a college degree, but the document
usually raises earning potential. The lack of one has seemed an obstacle to
me, even with lots of credits.
Your stories inspire. Unschooling cultivates that natural curiosity and
commitment many ps kids have squashed, must struggle to maintain or discover
again afterward. Unschooling does prepare kids for college or whatever they
want to do. The actual learning ability is what colleges and employers are
looking for anyway.
My point that some kids may need specific skill building to do well in their
chosen fields was kind of lost. Opening a discussion with my wrench was the
hope though<g>. Keep those stories of the older kids' experiences coming.
They encourage the rest of us and lay to rest our uncertainties.
Collette
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/23/2002 8:43:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lovehome@... writes:
(2nd semester junior by credit hours---I went 3 straight years with summer
school every year, but kept transferring, so I kept losing hours), I think I
would have felt pidgeon-holed and that I'd HAVE to stay within that "major"
field. By getting out, I've had the world opened (not that it REALLY wasn't
already!<g>)
As a groomer, I was actually netting more a lot than my vet friends because
of my low overhead. And I had fewer headaches---and at least MY clients
didn't die and they looked better when they left! Plus, my friends were still
paying off student loans.
Learning potential is more important than earning potential!
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lovehome@... writes:
>>>> Perhaps my dd's dreams don't require a college degree, but the documentDepends on what field you're looking in. Had I not dropped out of college
> usually raises earning potential. The lack of one has seemed an obstacle
> to
> me, even with lots of credits.
>
(2nd semester junior by credit hours---I went 3 straight years with summer
school every year, but kept transferring, so I kept losing hours), I think I
would have felt pidgeon-holed and that I'd HAVE to stay within that "major"
field. By getting out, I've had the world opened (not that it REALLY wasn't
already!<g>)
As a groomer, I was actually netting more a lot than my vet friends because
of my low overhead. And I had fewer headaches---and at least MY clients
didn't die and they looked better when they left! Plus, my friends were still
paying off student loans.
Learning potential is more important than earning potential!
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]