Joyce Fetteroll

I received this today. I do love disentangling this kind of logic, but
since November is National Novel Writing Month, I don't have as much
time to dig into it as I'd like. If anyone would like to respond, I
can forward your thoughts onto her. :-)

Joyce


====================
Hi,

I'm a high school student and I was just reading around on your
website. A lot of that logic is pretty mind-blowing and thought-
provoking. The part on chores especially; I was dead set against the
parents having to do the chores, but as I was reading through that, it
truly opened my mind. However, I'm still convinced that some things
are there that we all have to do as a child that help us later on.
Perhaps you could provide an alternate viewpoint to this idea? I'd
really appreciate that.

On your website (joyfullyrejoycing.com), you say that lots of times
music doesn't need that rote practice and all that people have used
for many years. But I was reading an excerpt of that book that Amy
Chua recently wrote about parenting (sorry, I forgot the title :) ),
and she brought up the good point that music is more fun when, plain
and simple, you're good at it. Now, I'm not terribly great at my
viola, but I do have to agree that as I've progressed, the joy I get
from playing the viola has increased. When I was kid I'll say it was
definitely quite fun to play an instrument; but I also enjoy a lot
now. Perhaps the fact that one matures as he/she ages allows one's
enjoyment from something as deep as music to increase. But the fact of
the matter is getting better at an instrument also brings joy to
playing it. Some of the greatest moments are in an orchestra of your
peers just rocking out to a vibe everyone feels... But the
musicianship of an orchestra can only increase when the people who
play in it start to practice routinely, and work hard, even when they
don't want to, at getting better, because they have that common goal
in mind. Hell, getting better at an instrument, period, requires daily
practice and nothing less. I'm a pretty lazy practicer, and I'm not so
great at the viola either :) Now, I agree that nothing would be as fun
as just playing my instrument with some of my friends for hours on
end, just hanging out. But is the experience of something where
there's a requirement of skill level, achieved by practice and
dedication, worth pushing one's kid for? A child may not have the
foresight to realize that in five or six years they might be missing
out on something truly spectacular if they don't put the effort in
now. Is it the obligation of the parents to push a kid when he/she is
little so that they can enjoy later?

The same might be said about math. When I was really little, like 3
and a half, my parents put me in an extracurricular math program that
was just rote practice every single day with instruction once a week.
I did that for 10 years and the number of tantrums I threw probably
couldn't be counted on the fingers of every person in New York City :)
But after thousands of pages of math, I can honestly say that
mathematics piques my interest to no end. It's beautiful, interesting,
and that ability to do problems and calculations really quickly in my
head helps in all facets of life. Do parents, once again, have the
obligation to set structure for a kid so that he/she can enjoy later?
This might be considered the basis behind getting a kid into college
and what not.

I suppose a counterargument might be... hmm, well you could say that
this method is not necessary, that a kid may explore passions or
interests in other fields. But doesn't it help to just give kids these
options? For example, my parents will be fine with pretty much
anything somewhat practical I do later in life (no philosophy :( ).
They don't need me to be a mathematician, engineer, musician, or
anything of the sort. I'm sure they'd be ok (grudgingly perhaps) if I
say I want to be a historian or newspaper editor. So would you say
that setting kids up with some interesting literature, history, etc.
that they're interested in reading is good for them and setting them
up to be open to anything in the future? Basically what I'm getting at
is is there a certain set of information that children should have,
that they deserve to have so that they can pursue whatever they want
later? If their interest wavers, is it important to keep a kid focused
on something so that they can see the value of finishing something
completely?

Sorry for all the questions; this is a really interesting topic and to
hear your viewpoint would mean a lot. Thanks for taking the time to
read all this!

Rinelle

I posted about my daughter, Ezri, only wanting to eat potato chips (fries?)
about 18 months ago (June 2010). The topic is here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/54498 (not sure if
there is some way to link to the whole topic or not?), and recieved some
great responses. Since then, we've worked really hard on not limiting the
foods she's eating, buying enough of her favourite foods so that she never
runs out (within budget, but we do pretty well), and though my husband and I
stress from time to time, I think she's pretty aware that we don't mind what
she eats, and she can request something and we'll do our best to get it for
her. She also eats a children's multivitamin (in gummi bear form, what a
great idea), which helps us be a bit calmer about it.

However, after 18 months of this, her diet is still very limited. She eats
chicken nuggets (cooked in the oven at home) for breakfast and dinner most
days. In between she'll eat a variety of fruit (about 3 or 4 different
kinds, no where near the variety she used to eat), a lot of rice
crackers/flavoured rice cakes, and a few pieces of bread (usually without
toppings of any kind). Sometimes she'll have something different, like
potato chips/fries, fish fingers, hash browns instead of the nuggets. She
almost never eats what we are having, even the meals that she used to eat
with us. There are one or two meals she still will eat (baked potato,
pizza, though she only has bacon and pineapple on a pizza base without any
other toppings), and we try to have these frequently. She eats a fair bit
of chocolate and other lollies.

I'm not so much worried about what she's eating, as the fact that she
doesn't seem happy about it. She isn't looking forward to dinner, or any
kind of food really (other than chocolate). When we ask what she wants for
dinner, she doesn't know, and often gets quite upset. If we just served the
food we think she would like, or offered a selection on a platter, she will
scream, and has on one or two occasions thrown the food across the room.
She really wants everyone to eat the same thing, but wants us to eat what
she's eating, not the other way around. We try to do this where possible,
by having a couple of nuggest with whatever we're having, which she seems
satisfied with for now.

She also often doesn't seem to eat enough during the day. She will get
quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't
request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually feel
'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it? I admit to being a little
like this myself. I make a point of eating something for dinner and
breakfast, but often forget to eat for a lot of the rest of the day, so I do
understand why she does it, but I don't yell at everyone when I'm hungry.
It's even worse if we are visiting friends/playing at the park with friends,
as she's so busy playing that she pretty much doesn't eat at all, and gets
very frustrated when her friends stop playing to eat.

She has just gotten to the point where she will request a new food to try,
and we make sure we get these whenever she asks. Usually, she'll try them
once, and either decide she doesn't like them (not a problem), or try them,
say they're nice, but not eat more than one mouthful.

Have we not being doing it for long enough for her to feel good about
eating? Can I expect she might increase her food options in the future?
Should I be worried at how little she's eating? I honestly have gotten to
the point where I don't mind what she eats, I just want her to be able to
find food she enjoys, and eat enough to keep her mood a little bit stable.

Tamara

Messyfish

I was forced to learn the piano. Classical, scales etc. I hour practice a day, 2 hours a day in my final 2 years. When I refused, my hands were held over the keys till I played. I had to take yearly exams that I got top marks in, and perform in competitions. I won them. The last note I played on the piano was the last note of my highschool exam 22 years ago. I hate the sound of piano now. I hate the memories of having no choice. There was no joy in being good at the piano, except that I got "acceptance" from toxic parents.

Kind regards,
Anna
BLOG:
http://messyfish.blogspot.com/
ETSY SHOP:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/messyfish?ref=seller_info

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 13, 2011, at 4:21 AM, Rinelle wrote:

> However, after 18 months of this, her diet is still very limited.

I don't think you should expect it to be not limited. Her body
chemistry is determining what tastes good and what feels good in her
mouth.

Her body chemistry will change as she approaches puberty. (If she's
quite young, yes, that's a long way off!)

Kathryn went through that eating very little variety. And then it
seemed overnight she changed to liking just about anything she tasted.
And I do mean the change was dramatic. Not at all gradual. It really
suggests body chemistry is the culprit.

The Japanese have an entire art form (oekakiben - picture bento and
kyaraben or charaben - character bento) that's evolved around creating
cute food to tempt kids to eat their box lunches (bento). Kids with
limited palates are world wide.


> I'm not so much worried about what she's eating, as the fact that she
> doesn't seem happy about it.

Have done monkey platters to present her with a wide variety of foods?

http://sandradodd.com/monkeyplatters/

The purpose, though, shouldn't be to broaden her palate. The purpose
is to provide choice. And for a child with a limited palate, it can
also provide choices of things she hasn't had before or recently.

It was very frustrating for Kathryn for special meals like a picnic
where she wanted special foods rather than what her body had limited
her to :-/


> When we ask what she wants for
> dinner, she doesn't know, and often gets quite upset.

Imagine how frustrating it must be to be in a world full of food but
most of it tastes yucky! She undoubtedly doesn't know. She just wants
food that doesn't make her gag.

Sympathy. (Not for throwing the food!) Understanding. You can provide
lots of different foods, but you can't change her body chemistry.
Maybe think of it as a broken leg. (Though broken may not be the best
idea to relate it to.) A broken leg is frustrating and uncomfortable.
You can't make that part go away. But you can help the child by
creating a more comfortable, nurturing nest.

> I'm not sure that she does actually feel
> 'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it?

That's quite possible. It's also compounded by not wanting to
interrupt something interesting for something uninteresting. (Which is
not limited to just kids. It's *really* hard to motivate myself to go
to the dump on days I don't have to go out for something else.)

> often forget to eat for a lot of the rest of the day, so I do
> understand why she does it, but I don't yell at everyone when I'm
> hungry.

And how many more years on the planet have you had than she's had?

How much greater is your ability to draw on a head full of different
foods you've experienced, get food from the store and prepare food?

> I honestly have gotten to
> the point where I don't mind what she eats, I just want her to be
> able to
> find food she enjoys, and eat enough to keep her mood a little bit
> stable.

Keep providing. Keep providing sympathy.

I sense a lot of tension in your writing. It might be spilling onto
her. As much as you can, make it about working together to find what
she likes. More of a "We'll keep at it, exploring, and finding things
you like." than feeling like it's you trying to fix her problem.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-I was forced to learn the piano. Classical, scales etc. I hour practice a day, 2 hours a day in my final 2 years. When I refused, my hands were held over the keys till I played. I had to take yearly exams that I got top marks in, and perform in competitions. I won them. The last note I played on the piano was the last note of my highschool exam 22 years ago. I hate the sound of piano now. I hate the memories of having no choice. There was no joy in being good at the piano, except that I got "acceptance" from toxic parents. -=-

Anna, your piano story is sad. If you added up all those practice hours, and all that sorrow...

I've put it on a page about force. I hope you don't mind.
http://sandradodd.com/force
It's not a very sad page. I think it will help people decide not to force their children to do things, and to think about how they think and speak and see those situations.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-
I sense a lot of tension in your writing. It might be spilling onto
her. As much as you can, make it about working together to find what
she likes. More of a "We'll keep at it, exploring, and finding things
you like." than feeling like it's you trying to fix her problem.-=-

I had thoughts reading the first thing, and Joyce's good response.

If she were in school, would the situation be better?
I don't think so.
If you were trying to force her to eat everything on her plate, or to taste everything, would that make the situation better?
I doubt it.

So it's not about unschooling.
She's unlikely to starve herself to death.

Making food that smells good is a potential allurement. Even if it's not what she wants to eat, smelling food might make her hungry.

Will she dip her chicken nuggets in other things? Hummus? Creamed corn? Honey? Peanut butter / vegemite/marmite / Nutella?

Or maybe the smells are not good for her. What about frozen things? Frozen juice pops? Homemade frozen things? Frozen bananas?

Will she eat rice (with or without other things in it)?
Baked potato (with or without other things in it)?

You don't need to answer any of those questions. They're just things for you to think about.
And just because something isn't appealing this year, it's possibly worth trying again.

Maybe if you taste them yourself instead of just pushing them toward her she will feel the shared meal part.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

"She also often doesn't seem to eat enough during the day. She will get
quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't
request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually feel
'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it? I admit to being a little
like this myself. I make a point of eating something for dinner and
breakfast, but often forget to eat for a lot of the rest of the day, so I do
understand why she does it, "

If remembering to eat is a problem you need to be more proactive about feeding
her. Take the time, every day, a couple of times a day, to put together a few
things that you know she likes on a plate and put it down near her. It is often
hard, when you are focused on what is in front of you, to take time away from it
to do something else. You state that it is a problem you've overcome with
personal discipline. Rather than expecting that of your daughter, you need to
accommodate her. For the peace of her relationships, for the peace of your
lives, figuring out how to meet her needs is a very good thing to do.


You wrote that she's thrown food across the room a couple of times and screamed
when things were offered. Are you waiting too long to offer? Is she already in a
foul mood when you are offering something to eat? Maybe don't give it to her
directly. Maybe just put it down near to her. I can't imagine what would
precipitate such a huge response unless she feels so pressured about food.
Although that may not be it at all. But that's a very negative response to a
generous act. Even so, I would continue trying to get her food before she is
clearly hungry. And I would continue to offer platters. But maybe work more for
them to be things you know she likes and less for them to be things you wish she
would eat.



" but I don't yell at everyone when I'm hungry. "

I do. Well, I don't now, but I have done. It's one of the ways I can tell if
I've gone too long without dealing with my food needs. I start to get grumpy and
snappy. I am quick to see the relationship now, but it took the ideas of people
here to help me to really see that. It took noticing how happy and generous I
was most of the time to see when I was being smaller and mean and what factors
played a role in that. It took a long time for me to see my reaction to things
as a part of how well I was feeling. I wouldn't expect that kind of
understanding to come easily to someone else.


Most of your post is about what she eats and what she doesn't eat. The lack of
variety. I spent much of my childhood refusing to eat food. I was spanked by the
teacher and then by my parents for claiming that I was allergic to food when I
was 6 because I didn't want to eat what the cafeteria was offering and teachers
would monitor what we threw away. Having had a childhood where dinner was a time
of trauma, where I might get stuck sitting at the table staring at food I didn't
want to eat rather than be allowed to go and do something, anything else (my mom
says it only happened once, but my memory is different), where I was often
accused of saying I didn't like something when I couldn't possibly know because
I'd never tried it--what a weird statment that is, food smells, it has
appearance, it has clear texture, you don't have to try it to have already
sensed whether or not it would be an experience you wanted to know--I am now
called a foodie. Not that I think that it is inevitable, that a childhood of not
enjoying food will lead to an adult life of really enjoying food. I don't really
enjoy most food. I struggle with lunch often because I don't want to just eat
anything. My foodie-ness, my love of some food, has grown easily from my dislike
of many foods. And my liking more food than I ever would have anticipated as I
sat, sullenly, angrily, at the table looking at stuffed green peppers for hours
on end, wishing we had a dog, or that my napkin could hold more, has grown from
my enjoyment of some food.


Go with that. She likes chicken nuggets. I like chicken nuggets. I make chicken
nuggets. I have deep fat fryer and I go and buy a chicken and I cut it up and I
marinate the chicken pieces in yoghurt for however long it was from when I
remembered to do the first bit to when I need to get dinner ready, and then I
dip them in flour, and then egg, and then bread crumbs that are a product of the
sourdough bread I make not all getting eaten. I also do pork chops that way and
then David makes a Japanese curry sauce from a packet and rice and we have curry
risu. Or shrimp or sweet potato or carrots or green beans or mushrooms or
whatever else. Or onion rings. But I do those differently, those are just cut up
and put in water and then dipped in flour and fried. But, my lands, are they
ever tasty. Oh, I think I must be hungry.


Chocolate is fabulous. Chocolate fondue is so good. Cut up lots of yummy fruit
and melt up some chocolate and butter and set it all out for a dipping
gloriousness. Totally messy, and fabulous. Or chocolate cake. One of my
favourites is a Pioneer Woman cake
http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2007/06/the_best_chocol/. It isn't quite
cake, it's almost a fudge cake. And it is so very, very good. You could make
bars,
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/magic-cookie-bars-from-eagle-brand/detail.aspx is
my favourite recipe for bars at the moment. They are so wonderfully moreish. You
and she could make lollies and chocolate treats and see what would be good. You
could make gummi bears.


But if you look at what you've listed: potatoes, fruit, rice, bread, chicken,
pizza, chocolate, it's a pretty fair range of things. And it's a range of things
that may, over time, allow for greater exploration. But she's 7, right? My guess
is that she won't be keen to expand her choices yet. And she may still feel very
much pressed to be a better eater than she already is. As I said, my mother's
memories of my sitting at the table are different to mine. My image of myself as
picky, fussy eater made me loathe to go new places or to eat at other people's
homes. It's taken a long time to shake that off.


Schuyler

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- Since then, we've worked really hard on not limiting the
foods she's eating, buying enough of her favourite foods so that she never
runs out (within budget, but we do pretty well), and though my husband and I
stress from time to time, I think she's pretty aware that we don't mind what
she eats, and she can request something and we'll do our best to get it for
her. She also eats a children's multivitamin (in gummi bear form, what a
great idea), which helps us be a bit calmer about it.-=-

I went back to re-read the original.

This doesn't sound like you're calm. "A bit calmer" after working really hard for over a year?

Then I looked at the list of food, and it was a LOT of food! And yes, on baked potatoes, so good!

-=-She eats
chicken nuggets (cooked in the oven at home) for breakfast and dinner most
days. In between she'll eat a variety of fruit (about 3 or 4 different
kinds, no where near the variety she used to eat), a lot of rice
crackers/flavoured rice cakes, and a few pieces of bread (usually without
toppings of any kind). Sometimes she'll have something different, like
potato chips/fries, fish fingers, hash browns instead of the nuggets. She
almost never eats what we are having, even the meals that she used to eat
with us. There are one or two meals she still will eat (baked potato,
pizza, though she only has bacon and pineapple on a pizza base without any
other toppings), and we try to have these frequently. She eats a fair bit
of chocolate and other lollies.-=-

Three or four different kinds of fruit is way more than lots of seven year olds are willing to eat, seriously.
Does she like dried fruit? Dried apples, or raisins?

It sounds like a lot of food and that your worry and stress are the worst parts of it all!

We used to take our kids to buffet restaurants, and sometimes Marty would only eat white food (mashed potatoes and a few other white things) but so? We teased him a bit, pointing out what else was white. They could have all the jello squares they wanted (which was never more than two, but still--a feast of potential jello). We could all sit and talk and laugh even if some people were eating a lot and others hardly anything. It was much more relaxing for me. For a while, when they were all under ten, we would do that two or four times a month, because kids ate free certain nights, or inexpensively. And it was variety for me and Keith, too--things we didn't cook, or that were too labor intensive to do with three little kids in the house.

Sandra

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 13, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> Making food that smells good is a potential allurement. Even if it's
> not what she wants to eat, smelling food might make her hungry.

And cook and bake with her too. One of the mistakes I made (12 years
ago without the understanding and wealth of information) was to try to
involve her in cooking meals when she wanted to make desserts. My
thought was she didn't need a greater variety of sweets she liked! She
needed to explore a greater variety of foods that she could have for
dinner and picnics. And all I could picture was a big cake with her
deciding she doesn't like it, my husband not a cake eater, and me who
would probably eat it. ;-)

I've since found you can freeze cake. You can cut it up into squares.
You can freeze it frosted. You can freeze it unfrosted. If you frost
it frozen, the frosting will crack as it warms but she may not care.
She may eat it frozen. :-) (I like Sara Lee carrot cake out of the
freezer :-)

And garden too. Let her pick out what she wants to grow. Throw some
things in you think she might like. Small container gardens can be
less time consuming if she loses interest and you want to keep it going.

Keep all those separate from getting her to eat or widen her palate.
Just swirl good experiences with food through her life.


> Or maybe the smells are not good for her. What about frozen things?
> Frozen juice pops? Homemade frozen things? Frozen bananas?

Kathryn loved frozen peas and corn.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mitrisue

When I reach a stuck place, and it sounds like you have about food, one of the most helpful things is just spending more time with the person having the issue. To put it in woo-woo language without claiming it is scientifically so, it feels like our brain waves mesh and harmonize, and then new ideas come out of that.

In the past I'd spend more time identifying a problem and trying to fix it from the outside. When I spend more time with the person I think is having a problem, sometimes my whole notion of what is going on shifts.

Julie

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

"We used to take our kids to buffet restaurants, and sometimes Marty
would only eat white food (mashed potatoes and a few other white things) but so? We teased him a bit, pointing out what else was white. They
could have all the jello squares they wanted (which was never more than
two, but still--a feast of potential jello). We could all sit and talk
and laugh even if some people were eating a lot and others hardly
anything. It was much more relaxing for me. For a while, when they
were all under ten, we would do that two or four times a month, because
kids ate free certain nights, or inexpensively. And it was variety for
me and Keith, too--things we didn't cook, or that were too labor
intensive to do with three little kids in the house."

My kids also love buffet restaurants . My son always eats the jello cubes!!!!
He also never goes for desert . My daughter likes their chocolate chip cookies ( which we always have at home since dad loves  cookies).

Talking about dad. My husband Brian suffered an accident the year before I met him and was on ICU for a week with a cracked skull.
After the accident , where he hit his head in the pavement going down a hill in his bike very very fast and deer jumped on top of him , he lost his smell and taste almost completely. He can taste salt, sweet and if it is hot ( spicy) but that is it.
So the only things that he eats are things he remembers  and enjoyed the taste and it is all texture and how it looks.
He only eats a dozen things really . He will eat lots of cookies and ice cream. Candy too! So he has lots of that all day,
He will eat dry cereal in the morning and have dinner but never lunch. He only eats baked potatos and tater tots, Fish , chicken or pork. Pizza. baked beans , a salad here and there and a fruit or broccoli here and there  and that is it. For him trying something newis pointless. Brian is 48 years old and super healthy. He runs and bikes and is in great shape.  He is in much better health than I am and I am the one who loves all kind of foods considered healthy

 
Both my kids had times they eat a very small variety of food.. There was a time that Gigi only ate a hand full of  foods.
She is now the one who loves veggie sushi , rice and beans, lots of different veggies with rice. My son is more a meat and bread kind of kid. He does not like foods that are mixed or touching.  They are both healthy and growing well.
I do make them lots of monkey platters. They love it.

I used to complain and ragg Brian about all the cookies and candy he ate. I wanted him to eat like I did and thought it was the ":right" way. Thanks to unschooling I let go of that and now I make sure we have all the candy, cookies and snacks my husband loves all the time.
Thinks are much sweeter at home literally, in every way.


Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Thinks are much sweeter at home literally, in every way.

""" Things"""

 
Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- For him trying something newis pointless. Brian is 48 years old and super healthy. He runs and bikes and is in great shape. He is in much better health than I am and I am the one who loves all kind of foods considered healthy-=-

I was in college with a woman who played banjo (that's how I remember her, from the folk music club) and who had been in an accident and lost her sense of taste completely. She chose foods by texture and "food group."

A variety of foods is for kings (historically), not for peasants. And who was stronger? The peasants.
Western culture emulates higher classes, always. It's cool to have/want/get more, and not cool to settle or simplify.
If you look at traditional diets, they are probably not going to be broad, but more likely narrow. And there will be seasonal realities (in the absence of international shipping and refrigeration) so that in the winter there would be more dry foods boiled; in the fall, more fruit; in the spring, more greens, and preserved/salted meats.

The local traditional menu here involves beans, corn, tortillas and cheese. If meat, chicken, pork, sausage or ground beef are common.
There are Asian menus involving cooked sprouts and vegetables, maybe some meat and sauce, and rice.

Alex P wrote:
|I used to complain and ragg Brian about all the cookies and candy he ate. I wanted him to eat like I did and thought it was the ":right" way. Thanks to unschooling I let go of that and now I make sure we have all the candy, cookies and snacks my husband loves all the time.
Thinks are much sweeter at home literally, in every way."

There are natural sweets in nature, and human breast milk is VERY, very sweet (unlike "baby formula"). Sometimes I wonder if some people's lifelong "sweet tooth" might be making up for a lack of breastfeeding when they were babies. They didn't get enough of what babies are supposed to have for a year or two or more, and they still lack, forever. But fruit is sweet. Bread and crackers, when chewed, turn sweet.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 13, 2011, at 12:15 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> Thinks are much sweeter at home literally, in every way.
>
> """ Things"""

I bet the "thinks" are too :-) It's easier to think in happy ways when
you're feeling happy.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

 


 

<<<<<<<<On Nov 13, 2011, at 12:15 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> Thinks are much sweeter at home literally, in every way.
>
> """ Things"""

I bet the "thinks" are too :-) It's easier to think in happy ways when
you're feeling happy.

Joyce>>>>>>>


YES! Now I love getting him his snacks, cookies and candy. It is an act of love from me to him instead of me being aggravated about him eating them.
 
I loved what Schuyler wrote about how she makes the chicken nuggets and about chocolate. That is embracing what the other person loves and not just putting up with it. If you are just putting up with it and hoping it changes that you are missing so much.

 I went from ragging to putting up with  but it was not until I embraced it that my relationship with my husband became sweeter.  Same with my children.
My husband is big on going shopping or even stopping at the gas station and getting little snacks for the kids. It is thoughtful and loving.
I could be the mom and wife complaining about it or whining. I could be the mom putting up with it but still aggravated. I chose ( and this is the key - to choose) to embrace it. Embrace it and  offer my kids plenty a different food , including vegetables and fruits. I even have a huge garden every year. Just yesterday I made mashed potatoes from just potatoes I just dig up and broccoli I just cut from the garden.

Alex Polikowsky


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed Wendell

Zachariah is 17 and eats very few foods. He ate basically everything/anything up until the age of 5 and then started eliminating foods he once loved. Although he never really liked fruits to begin with, now he never eats fruit. The veggies he will eat now and then are french fries pretty much anywhere and salad at Olive garden (just the lettuce and crutons). All foods have to be a certain brand and fixed a certain way. He will eat some foods at a particular restaurant but not at other restaurants nor at home, etc.

When he was younger he would stand in the kitchen and cry because he was hungry but reject everything I offered to fix him, saying "I'm starving but nothing sounds good." If it was something he was used to eating he might say he was tired of that but nothing else sounds good.

He too will try something different every once in a while but either says he does not like it or says it isn't too bad but does not want more.

He goes through cycles of what he will eat. For a couple of years it was almost exclusively tacos every meal - flour tortillas, 90% ground beef with Taco Bell seasoning, shredded iceberg lettuce - now he won't touch them. Sometimes he cycles back to something - roast beef from the deli on sourdough bread is one he will eat for a couple of weeks and then not for a year and then back to it. The other day the deli gave us a different brand of roast beef and he could not eat it.

His biggest constant (for at home meals) for the past several years has been hamburgers: ground round & shredded cheddar cheese on a bun, along with tortilla chips & salsa.

He rarely gets sick - maybe a sniffle once a winter and that is it. He is healthy and has grown very well. He is 6'4" and a healthy weight.

There are a lot of people that eat very few foods - variety is not their thing - and they are healthy and happy. If one thinks back into history most people did not eat a wide variety of foods. Foods were regional and people ate the same foods over and over again. I grew up on a farm and we pretty much ate the same basic meals over and over - we had roast with potatoes and carrots every Sunday after church.


Lisa W.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-He too will try something different every once in a while but either says he does not like it or says it isn't too bad but does not want more.-=-

Holly will do that, and she's 20. :-)
She'll taste something, and say it's good, but not want a whole serving.

I wouldn't worry.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"Rinelle" <rinelle@...> wrote:
>> However, after 18 months of this, her diet is still very limited.

I counted ten things listed, some of them "several kinds of" - that's pretty varied, from my perspective. There's starch, protein and fruits, plus the multi-vitamin. If you don't know other kids who have conservatives tastes, it probably doesn't seem like much, but conservatives tastes run in my family - your kid eats ten different foods? Not counting varieties? Score.

>>She isn't looking forward to dinner, or any
> kind of food really (other than chocolate).

She may be really busy with other things. My kids don't really "look forward to" meals, they get hungry and eat things. Food is more often fuel than anything else. I forget how old your daughter is. When Mo was little, I would "dress up" food to get her attention while she was playing - wrap things up like little presents, or serve food using toys as cups and plates. It was a way to make food interesting enough to get her to notice it - otherwise she'd forget to eat and end up nauseated and unAble to eat. Actually, that's not true (its been a few years!) she could eat candy when she was that hungry sick and usually after a few pieces of candy she could drink milk, so that was our emergency fallback plan for days when food wasn't anywhere on her radar.

> Should I be worried at how little she's eating?

Mo eats such minuscule amounts that a handful of m&ms and a large glass of milk was easily a whole meal when she was younger. Now - at 10 - she still has a very dainty appetite. She's very robust, though, so it's hard to actually worry about her - it's kind of amazing to see how much she can do on practically no "fuel".

> It's even worse if we are visiting friends/playing at the park with friends,
> as she's so busy playing that she pretty much doesn't eat at all, and gets
> very frustrated when her friends stop playing to eat.

Snacks in the car! That's my ongoing gameplan so that Mo will eat something either on the way to or from a playdate. That and stopping for ice-cream on the way home. Little things like popcorn or dry breakfast cereal are really handy for car snacks - especially cereal since you can get something colorful and attractive and sweet but also loaded up with vitamins.

The other thing is lots of beverages - juice boxes and milk are ideal for car-snacks and make a great source of nutrition for a child who doesn't really care about eating. Mo will notice she's thirsty long before she's hungry.

---Meredith

Meredith

Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>> Making food that smells good is a potential allurement. Even if it's not what she wants to eat, smelling food might make her hungry.
**************

Oh! that reminds me. Sometimes kids don't like to eat because of sinus or related issues (ear or throat) or just a weak sense of smell. The folks in my extended family who have conservative tastes, including Mo, all have a very weak sense of smell or allergies. That's something to think about if the smell of food doesn't seem interesting to your child and/or if she seems very focused on things like texture - without smell, looks and texture are much, much more important.

---Meredith

Karen

> She eats
> chicken nuggets (cooked in the oven at home) for breakfast and dinner most
> days. In between she'll eat a variety of fruit (about 3 or 4 different
> kinds, no where near the variety she used to eat), a lot of rice
> crackers/flavoured rice cakes, and a few pieces of bread (usually without
> toppings of any kind). Sometimes she'll have something different, like
> potato chips/fries, fish fingers, hash browns instead of the nuggets. She
> almost never eats what we are having, even the meals that she used to eat
> with us. There are one or two meals she still will eat (baked potato,
> pizza, though she only has bacon and pineapple on a pizza base without any
> other toppings), and we try to have these frequently. She eats a fair bit
> of chocolate and other lollies.

That sounds pretty good!

> I'm not so much worried about what she's eating, as the fact that she
> doesn't seem happy about it. She isn't looking forward to dinner, or any
> kind of food really (other than chocolate).

We did a couple things to make eating more fun. We made some snack bowls together out of clay. He loves eating from them. When our friends come over, the kids request their favourites too. Whenever we are at the thrift shop, Ethan usually picks out some kind of bowl or plate he thinks is special. Perhaps your daughter would enjoy some dishes of her very own?

Another thing we did was introduce games while we all shared some food together - easy games like dice games, or charades, or pictionary, or dinner games...games that would make us laugh, and have some fun while we ate. It has been a lot of fun so far.

> She also often doesn't seem to eat enough during the day. She will get
> quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't
> request food if she's hungry.

I almost always have food out somewhere close to where Ethan is playing. I don't say anything more than, "Here's a snack for you." It usually gets nibbled down. I make sure to fill the bowls or plate with things he likes, with the occasional new thing. If he tries the new thing, then great! If not, that's okay too. I don't say too much about it.

> She has just gotten to the point where she will request a new food to try,
> and we make sure we get these whenever she asks. Usually, she'll try them
> once, and either decide she doesn't like them (not a problem), or try them,
> say they're nice, but not eat more than one mouthful.

When we are at the grocery store together, Ethan often picks one exotic item from the produce department to bring home to cut open. Half the time, Ethan is just interested in what it looks like inside. I usually taste whatever it is. Sometimes he does too. Sometimes he likes it, and then we go on a run of getting that whenever we shop. Often, he thinks it tastes too weird. That's okay too. I love that adventure! The other day, we brought home celleric (sp?). Ethan thought it looked so creepy. He spent about 20 minutes cutting off the outer layer to make it look better. He didn't try it, but he was excited for us to, and he had a lot of fun preparing it for us.

Karen.

Regan

I think a lot of what you're missing is that people who develop their own interests will often become highly skilled at what they do, without ever being "forced" to practise it. Perhaps you have not seen this very much because a lot of people are forced to do things by parents, school etc. But without that forcing, people's skill levels can grow really beautifully, with no shadows brought into it by having been forced to do things that they did not want to do. They find their own understandings which are deeply meaningful to them and will stay with them. Their understandings are able to grow unhindered by the weighty baggage that years of forcing bring.

In my experience, it is the people who haven't been forced, whose skills are deepest, strongest; whose understandings are the greatest, and whose joy in what they do is fully intact. They seem to be able to take things further because their passions and drive have not withered under the forcing.

An analogy: I like eating, but only when I'm hungry. If I was repeatedly forced to eat when I wasn't hungry, eating would lose some of its joy and pleasure, even when I was hungry. The pleasure in eating when hungry would get all muddied from my having been forced to eat when I didn't want to. The more I was forced, the more of a mess I would be with food, the less joy I would find in eating. And joy is important!

I see the same type of thing happen with music. I see a great many musicians who can play the notes, but who drag ensembles down with their negativity, clock-watching and unresponsive, lifeless playing. Lots of the professional orchestras where I live, are known for not being happy workplaces. It appears to me that a lot of this comes from many/most of the players having been forced to do practice etc (usually repeatedly) and now not knowing how to enjoy what they do and/or to do what they enjoy.

Whereas the people who run with music of their own accord, are usually really fabulous players who find joy all over the place, are adaptable, creative, responsive etc. From what I've seen they are the ones who will make the music come to life. Their spirit of adventure, of fun, of depth etc is intact. They have not been damaged by being forced to do what they didn't want to do.

> I'm still convinced that some things
> are there that we all have to do as a child that help us later on.

Perhaps you could spend some time thinking deeply about that conviction - try to be open-minded about the answers to 'why' and 'why not'. Sometimes there is a conditioned response along the lines of "because you have to", "everyone does", because the predominance of schoolish ways, can block out the view of other ways, which do nonetheless exist, even though you may never have seen them.

> ... But the
> musicianship of an orchestra can only increase when the people who
> play in it start to practice routinely, and work hard, even when they
> don't want to, at getting better, because they have that common goal
> in mind.

Orchestras work best when everyone who's there wants to be there and can play well enough to be able to have fun with what they're playing. It's best to leave "work hard, even when they don't want to" out of it altogether.

> Hell, getting better at an instrument, period, requires daily
> practice and nothing less.

Er, no. That's a pretty narrow-minded approach and it doesn't accord with reality. People learn naturally in their own ways. It's quite interesting how different people reach skilled levels at anything, and your statement above is not accurate.

> I'm a pretty lazy practicer, and I'm not so
> great at the viola either :)

The concept of a "lazy" practiser is laden with judgement as to what is good practising and what isn't. If joy is leading the way, life is happy and learning will happen.

> ... But is the experience of something where
> there's a requirement of skill level, achieved by practice and
> dedication, worth pushing one's kid for? A child may not have the
> foresight to realize that in five or six years they might be missing
> out on something truly spectacular if they don't put the effort in
> now.

They will be "missing out on something truly spectacular" if they are forced repeatedly to practise now. They'll be missing out on happiness now, emotional wellbeing in the future and the chance to have become skilled in ways that work best for them. Doing what we love to do, is important throughout life, and if this is not tampered with, it will continue to guide us happily through life. If playing music with people is a part of that, then help it to happen. Don't force it because of some idea that it's good for you.

> Is it the obligation of the parents to push a kid when he/she is
> little so that they can enjoy later?

No. Little kids are people now, too, and they will enjoy more later if they are allowed to enjoy now.

> ...my parents put me in an extracurricular math program that
> was just rote practice every single day with instruction once a week.
> I did that for 10 years and the number of tantrums I threw probably
> couldn't be counted on the fingers of every person in New York City :)
> But after thousands of pages of math, I can honestly say that
> mathematics piques my interest to no end. It's beautiful, interesting,
> and that ability to do problems and calculations really quickly in my
> head helps in all facets of life.

No-one knows how you would feel about mathematical concepts now, if you had not done the math program. You would probably be struggling less with these ideas about forcing being essential to skill development/future happiness, if you had not be forced to do the program.

> Do parents, once again, have the
> obligation to set structure for a kid so that he/she can enjoy later?
> This might be considered the basis behind getting a kid into college
> and what not.
>
> I suppose a counterargument might be... hmm, well you could say that
> this method is not necessary, that a kid may explore passions or
> interests in other fields. But doesn't it help to just give kids these
> options?

Sure, open as many doors as look interesting to kids, but don't force them to stay in rooms they don't enjoy, in the hope that this will lead to more happiness later on. They will miss out on so much happiness now and as with the eating analogy above, it's hard to continue to find true joy in something when forcing's been a part of it, unless those wounds are healed.

> ... So would you say
> that setting kids up with some interesting literature, history, etc.
> that they're interested in reading is good for them and setting them
> up to be open to anything in the future? Basically what I'm getting at
> is is there a certain set of information that children should have,
> that they deserve to have so that they can pursue whatever they want
> later?

Support them in pursuing whatever interests/excites them in their childhoods and they will happily continue to pursue what they love later on.

> If their interest wavers, is it important to keep a kid focused
> on something so that they can see the value of finishing something
> completely?

I don't see much value in "finishing something completely", especially when I compare it to being able to grow with love and support, developing one's own unique passions. If people were 'keeping me focused on something', I think it would build resentment more than I would come to see the value of finishing something. Sometimes what happens is that people can take on the worldview of people who exercise control over them, and see themselves as flawed unless they... finish something compeletely, do that day's practice etc etc. That leads to unhappy lives and/or lots of healing needed, because it's not true.

Debbie.

Lisa

sandra wrote:

> There are natural sweets in nature, and human breast milk is VERY, very sweet (unlike "baby formula"). Sometimes I wonder if some people's lifelong "sweet tooth" might be making up for a lack of breastfeeding when they were babies. They didn't get enough of what babies are supposed to have for a year or two or more, and they still lack, forever. But fruit is sweet. Bread and crackers, when chewed, turn sweet.
>

I was breastfed. I'm not sure for how long. probably for close to a year. My mother was a young, poor hippie.

I still have a major sweet tooth. A lot of it is probably genetics - my son also has a major sweet tooth - but if I were to guess why I am sometimes unable or unwilling to turn down sweets I would attach it to the fact that I never was allowed them. They were sometimes in the house but I was told not to eat them. Sometimes I would anyway and then I would get punished.

Candy bars were the only thing I have ever stolen in my whole life. And I was YOUNG. maybe 3rd or 4th grade. I did it several times at a neighborhood store on the way home from school - shoving all I could carry into my backpack while no one was looking and then finding a place to sit in private and eat them all at once.

It's memories like this that have allowed me to let go of my food fears. No matter how much sugar my son eats at least he's not hiding somewhere shoving stolen chocolate into his mouth.

My son can actually say no thanks when he's full and he turns down sweet stuff that he doesn't like that much (cake, pie, certain kinds of candy, certain flavors). He's already leaps and bounds ahead of his mother.

Lisa

hmbpie

=She will get quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually feel 'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it?=

Austin doesn't recognize when he is hungry until it gets to the painful point. He's talked to me about it saying that he knows he's hungry when his stomach hurts. I mentioned that if his stomach hurts he may have waited too long to eat. That his body was probably gently telling him before that that it was hungry, but when his stomach hurts it's like his body is yelling at him that it's time to eat! With lights flashing to get his attention. He's recovering from 9 years of being told when he's hungry, when it's time to eat and what he will eat. Now he's listening and recognizing signals in his body. I have to try very hard not to mess that up with my anxiety.

I try to make sure he has a plate next to him throughout the day that way if his body gives him a signal there is food right there for him to eat before the signals get to loud. I also will say sometimes, "Just in case." That way he doesn't feel any pressure to eat what I have brought him. He also likes it if I go through what is on the plate, like they do at fancy restaurants when telling you the special. "Today we have turkey roll ups with a side of Ritz crackers with American cheese on top with a side of watermelon juice."




--- In [email protected], "Rinelle" <rinelle@...> wrote:
>
> I posted about my daughter, Ezri, only wanting to eat potato chips (fries?)
> about 18 months ago (June 2010). The topic is here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/54498 (not sure if
> there is some way to link to the whole topic or not?), and recieved some
> great responses. Since then, we've worked really hard on not limiting the
> foods she's eating, buying enough of her favourite foods so that she never
> runs out (within budget, but we do pretty well), and though my husband and I
> stress from time to time, I think she's pretty aware that we don't mind what
> she eats, and she can request something and we'll do our best to get it for
> her. She also eats a children's multivitamin (in gummi bear form, what a
> great idea), which helps us be a bit calmer about it.
>
> However, after 18 months of this, her diet is still very limited. She eats
> chicken nuggets (cooked in the oven at home) for breakfast and dinner most
> days. In between she'll eat a variety of fruit (about 3 or 4 different
> kinds, no where near the variety she used to eat), a lot of rice
> crackers/flavoured rice cakes, and a few pieces of bread (usually without
> toppings of any kind). Sometimes she'll have something different, like
> potato chips/fries, fish fingers, hash browns instead of the nuggets. She
> almost never eats what we are having, even the meals that she used to eat
> with us. There are one or two meals she still will eat (baked potato,
> pizza, though she only has bacon and pineapple on a pizza base without any
> other toppings), and we try to have these frequently. She eats a fair bit
> of chocolate and other lollies.
>
> I'm not so much worried about what she's eating, as the fact that she
> doesn't seem happy about it. She isn't looking forward to dinner, or any
> kind of food really (other than chocolate). When we ask what she wants for
> dinner, she doesn't know, and often gets quite upset. If we just served the
> food we think she would like, or offered a selection on a platter, she will
> scream, and has on one or two occasions thrown the food across the room.
> She really wants everyone to eat the same thing, but wants us to eat what
> she's eating, not the other way around. We try to do this where possible,
> by having a couple of nuggest with whatever we're having, which she seems
> satisfied with for now.
>
> She also often doesn't seem to eat enough during the day. She will get
> quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't
> request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually feel
> 'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it? I admit to being a little
> like this myself. I make a point of eating something for dinner and
> breakfast, but often forget to eat for a lot of the rest of the day, so I do
> understand why she does it, but I don't yell at everyone when I'm hungry.
> It's even worse if we are visiting friends/playing at the park with friends,
> as she's so busy playing that she pretty much doesn't eat at all, and gets
> very frustrated when her friends stop playing to eat.
>
> She has just gotten to the point where she will request a new food to try,
> and we make sure we get these whenever she asks. Usually, she'll try them
> once, and either decide she doesn't like them (not a problem), or try them,
> say they're nice, but not eat more than one mouthful.
>
> Have we not being doing it for long enough for her to feel good about
> eating? Can I expect she might increase her food options in the future?
> Should I be worried at how little she's eating? I honestly have gotten to
> the point where I don't mind what she eats, I just want her to be able to
> find food she enjoys, and eat enough to keep her mood a little bit stable.
>
> Tamara
>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

When I was 16 I came to the US to work for a dog handler and so an Internship to learn more about showing dogs and grooming show dogs. I was already a professional in  Brazil and made pretty decent money and was already considered a great handler compared to all the other older guys in the professional. My parents let me quit 10th Grade and  come over and spend about a year working.
I was lucky enough and went to work for a fabulous and super super talented handler and show dog groomer. She was , still is , one of the biggest talents in the Dog Show world. She was also a maniac and a great mentor.
Now show dogs are treated at her place in the best form possible. They get all they need and all they want. They are catered in all their wishes and preferences. We strive to keep them happy.
I worked for almost a year and really never had any days off. I worked with little or no sleep. I drove all over the US and went to shows everywhere. I loved it. I spent nights grooming dogs. I cleaned a lot of dog poop. I took care of her toddler too!
I did not care I had no days off. I wanted to learn and do more and more. I did not mind cleaning dog poop, being bitten, staying up all night driving just to work all day. 
No one ever made me do any  of that!



Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catfish_friend

>>> Hell, getting better at an instrument, period, requires daily practice and nothing less. <<<

--- Er, no. That's a pretty narrow-minded approach and it doesn't accord with reality. People learn naturally in their own ways. It's quite interesting how different people reach skilled levels at anything, and your statement above is not accurate. ---

My parents were Korean immigrants to the US. I had a childhood friend who went to the same Korean church as me whose parents forced her to practice piano 2-3 hours everyday. She started piano lessons at age 3.

My parents did not force any lessons -- they were very laissez faire, about their parenting in general. I often felt they provided shelter, food and money for lessons and not much else.

I took one year of piano lessons (age 8), 3 years of violin (age 9-11) 1 electric guitar lesson (age 14). I initiated and quit each on my own. I started to play piano again passionately around age 12 when I discovered musicals via Les Miserables and Andrew Lloyd Webber. I wanted to practice singing songs from the musicals, so I played my own accompaniment. I started performing professionally as an actress in the children's theater at the John F. Kennedy center in Washington DC. I don't know if I practiced piano everyday back then, but I really enjoyed learning to become proficient on my own. I branched out to playing U2 and 10,000 Maniacs songs by ear, singing simultaneously. I wrote songs and at 15, my English teacher had me videotaped playing guitar and singing my song about Catcher in the Rye as an example for future English classes. I work in film editing where music editing is essential to the process and I am highly skilled at selecting and incorporating music (though there is a specific position who does this). On my own time, I improvise on my electric piano and play guitar and sing with my girls.

I remember feeling sorry for my childhood friend who was forced to play piano. She was never allowed to spend the night or come to parties where boys were invited. She won competition after competition playing piano, and had perfect pitch. I thought the perfect pitch was cool -- we used to test her at church and I remember being blown away by her explaining that different tape cassette players played at different speeds, so there was no absolute pitch on cassettes. She knew this because of her perfect pitch.

My friend went to Juilliard for piano. When she graduated, she decided that she did not want to play piano anymore. She then went to a prestigious Ivy league law school. She passed the bar but did not want to practice law.

I recently saw her and was intrigued about her life's journey as she is now a professional poker dealer. She was in my town for a songwriting conference. She now wants to compose music for film.

I happen to know some film composers because of what I do.

I got where I am professionally because I was allowed to make choices based on interest and was not held back from my passions.

My friend has amazing musicianship and is highly educated and is now discovering what she enjoys about music at nearly 40.

I'm glad she has discovered any joy in music and that all her years of forced play will be of use to her.

Ceci

Sylvia Woodman

"When he was younger he would stand in the kitchen and cry because he was
hungry but reject everything I offered to fix him, saying "I'm starving but
nothing sounds good." If it was something he was used to eating he might
say he was tired of that but nothing else sounds good."

This and so much else in this thread resonates with me! My son Harry, age
5 goes through this often. I'm finding it hard to "stay ahead" of him with
regard to food. He eats lots of chocolate and tiny amounts of everything
else. I do my very best to shield him from the negative comments from the
adults we see regularly in our lives. Even some of the kids we play with
have commented on the amount of candy we keep in the house. The prevailing
theme seems to be that if we didn't keep the candy in our house he would
magically begin to eat a different diet.

I am reminded of the La Leche League advice about watching your baby for
early hunger cues and that crying was actually a very late hunger cue and
could sometimes (ironically) make the feeding go poorly. The same is true
for Harry - I need to be mindful and try to catch those early hunger cues
and get something to him BEFORE he is screaming, uncomfortable, and
generally freaking out. At that point he won't eat anything. And while I
*know* this I still need be be reminded periodically he takes food in
really TINY amounts. 1/3 of a string cheese. 3 TLC crackers. 1/2 of a
sandwich. 6 cashew nuts. 2 chicken nuggets. One slice of salami. 1/4 apple
(sliced very thin) 1/2 a pancake. A couple of spoonfuls of cereal.

Sylvia


On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM, hmbpie <heatherpie@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> =She will get quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten,
> and won't request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually
> feel 'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it?=
>
> Austin doesn't recognize when he is hungry until it gets to the painful
> point. He's talked to me about it saying that he knows he's hungry when his
> stomach hurts. I mentioned that if his stomach hurts he may have waited too
> long to eat. That his body was probably gently telling him before that that
> it was hungry, but when his stomach hurts it's like his body is yelling at
> him that it's time to eat! With lights flashing to get his attention. He's
> recovering from 9 years of being told when he's hungry, when it's time to
> eat and what he will eat. Now he's listening and recognizing signals in his
> body. I have to try very hard not to mess that up with my anxiety.
>
> I try to make sure he has a plate next to him throughout the day that way
> if his body gives him a signal there is food right there for him to eat
> before the signals get to loud. I also will say sometimes, "Just in case."
> That way he doesn't feel any pressure to eat what I have brought him. He
> also likes it if I go through what is on the plate, like they do at fancy
> restaurants when telling you the special. "Today we have turkey roll ups
> with a side of Ritz crackers with American cheese on top with a side of
> watermelon juice."
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Rinelle" <rinelle@...> wrote:
> >
> > I posted about my daughter, Ezri, only wanting to eat potato chips
> (fries?)
> > about 18 months ago (June 2010). The topic is here:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/54498 (not sure if
> > there is some way to link to the whole topic or not?), and recieved some
> > great responses. Since then, we've worked really hard on not limiting
> the
> > foods she's eating, buying enough of her favourite foods so that she
> never
> > runs out (within budget, but we do pretty well), and though my husband
> and I
> > stress from time to time, I think she's pretty aware that we don't mind
> what
> > she eats, and she can request something and we'll do our best to get it
> for
> > her. She also eats a children's multivitamin (in gummi bear form, what a
> > great idea), which helps us be a bit calmer about it.
> >
> > However, after 18 months of this, her diet is still very limited. She
> eats
> > chicken nuggets (cooked in the oven at home) for breakfast and dinner
> most
> > days. In between she'll eat a variety of fruit (about 3 or 4 different
> > kinds, no where near the variety she used to eat), a lot of rice
> > crackers/flavoured rice cakes, and a few pieces of bread (usually
> without
> > toppings of any kind). Sometimes she'll have something different, like
> > potato chips/fries, fish fingers, hash browns instead of the nuggets.
> She
> > almost never eats what we are having, even the meals that she used to
> eat
> > with us. There are one or two meals she still will eat (baked potato,
> > pizza, though she only has bacon and pineapple on a pizza base without
> any
> > other toppings), and we try to have these frequently. She eats a fair
> bit
> > of chocolate and other lollies.
> >
> > I'm not so much worried about what she's eating, as the fact that she
> > doesn't seem happy about it. She isn't looking forward to dinner, or any
> > kind of food really (other than chocolate). When we ask what she wants
> for
> > dinner, she doesn't know, and often gets quite upset. If we just served
> the
> > food we think she would like, or offered a selection on a platter, she
> will
> > scream, and has on one or two occasions thrown the food across the room.
> > She really wants everyone to eat the same thing, but wants us to eat
> what
> > she's eating, not the other way around. We try to do this where
> possible,
> > by having a couple of nuggest with whatever we're having, which she
> seems
> > satisfied with for now.
> >
> > She also often doesn't seem to eat enough during the day. She will get
> > quite grumpy and upset more than normal if she hasn't eaten, and won't
> > request food if she's hungry. I'm not sure that she does actually feel
> > 'hunger', or perhaps she doesn't recognise it? I admit to being a little
> > like this myself. I make a point of eating something for dinner and
> > breakfast, but often forget to eat for a lot of the rest of the day, so
> I do
> > understand why she does it, but I don't yell at everyone when I'm
> hungry.
> > It's even worse if we are visiting friends/playing at the park with
> friends,
> > as she's so busy playing that she pretty much doesn't eat at all, and
> gets
> > very frustrated when her friends stop playing to eat.
> >
> > She has just gotten to the point where she will request a new food to
> try,
> > and we make sure we get these whenever she asks. Usually, she'll try
> them
> > once, and either decide she doesn't like them (not a problem), or try
> them,
> > say they're nice, but not eat more than one mouthful.
> >
> > Have we not being doing it for long enough for her to feel good about
> > eating? Can I expect she might increase her food options in the future?
> > Should I be worried at how little she's eating? I honestly have gotten
> to
> > the point where I don't mind what she eats, I just want her to be able
> to
> > find food she enjoys, and eat enough to keep her mood a little bit
> stable.
> >
> > Tamara
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm glad she has discovered any joy in music and that all her years of forced play will be of use to her.-=-

Reclamation, though.
Not direct benefit.

I would hate for her mother to take credit now for having filled her youth with forced piano.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catfish_friend

//// I would hate for her mother to take credit now for having filled her youth with forced piano. ////

Her mother passed away while she was in law school. My friend moved some 2000 miles away from her family to escape her family's control and expectations after she completed law school.

My friend has said that was what she needed to figure out her life. She still lives 2000 miles from the rest of her family.

Ceci