Melissa Dietrick

hi, my name is melissa, I dont write very often here tho I read as much as I
can.
My family and I live in Northern Italy, I am from the US and my husband is
Italian. we have 7 children: 2 are full grown and living full lives, 2 are
in highschool (and living full lives :) ), and the 3 youngest are learning
(and living full lives) "at home" (they are 6, 8 and 11 years).

Im not sure how to get to where I want to in this post without writing our
life story...
we live in a country (Italy) that requires yearly testing for homeschoolers,
it is not a very "homeschooling-friendly" country, though depending where
one lives, and the school official one gets, it can be pretty easy--we are
sort of in the middle.. they are letting us homeschool, Ive not had much
trouble even though we dont follow a standard curriculum, but right now we
are in transition (with the school) as my 11yo is now of middle school age.

I read here recently (Joyce Fetteroll wrote it)
<<On this list the goals and foundations are living a learning filled
life, growing great relationships, supporting a child's explorations,
creating a peaceful home.<<

This definitely reflects our goals and foundations for our family. we
really understand that natural learning is about being free to choose how,
what and with whom to learn, its about the parents trusting the learning
process, and most of all trusting their children.

Because our home is rather crowded (we have 7 children, tho 2 are not home
as often as once apon a time) I have made a considerable effort in the past
year to creat a space for our projects, our music, and books so that we are
not always in the kitchen come cold rainy, snowy weahter. This september it
finally came together and we started using it enthusiastically, finally
able to draw, work the loom, play with the legos and use the table space for
puzzles, play the drums...without having to put everything away because its
time to eat, or because someone else needs the table for their work. So
this year life is really lovely, fulfilling, and enriching but recently some
of our experiences are presenting in a way I never really expected nor
wanted. where I am feeling "strained" is because recently, both my 8 yro
and my 11yo want to "work on their writing"--for different reasons I am
sure...but with the result that they are looking to me to direct them and
give them ideas on what to write. If I think about me in "teacher mode" I
feel very uncomfortable...yet we are really having a lot of fun! Both
shanti and giacomo (8yr) really love nature, so shanti thought she'd like to
do a project making a book from scratch on Trees and leaves ...putting art,
poems, as well as botanical information inside it. I asked her if she wanted
to do it all by herself but she decided she preferred if we did a family
progect, so we could use also art from the older kids (we came across lots
of collections stashed away as we made our new work-play-space) as well as
anything the smaller children might do as well as my own work.

So my "feeling off" that Im noticing now comes on when I am thinking about,
writing about our days (for the blog-journal)...NOT when we are living and
doing but when Im writing (to post) about our days. I guess I am feeling
uncomfortable with my blog's http-name(apprendimento naturale or "natural
learning" in english)...as if there is some sort of Natural Learning Ideal
that I must live up to...and if I write about my children's following my
lead (willingly, with choice), about my working to satisfy government
requirements with a space totally dedicated to their "educational" needs
(They do have the right to send me heath agents to check us out if they feel
we are not up to par), about me preparing materials to strew around then I
am "betraying" somehow this ideal. Yeah...thats it. I am feeling torn
between how I envision others to unschool and how it is working out for us,
what with my husbands fears of not "holding up to par with the testing", the
reality of unschooling in a country that is unfamiliar with homeschooling.
I spend a lot of time translating what we do these day into "schoolese" and
it grates my nerves. I live in a home with schooled children so our
work-play space (in italian there is a more neutral word--laboratorio) has
been dubbed "mamma's school room" which bugs me too! It is the "big room"
for the kids (has always had that name)...I dont know, seems that try as I
might we are always within a schoolish vocabulary that given the
circumstances I cant get away from except within my own mind.

Pam Sorooshian wrote: <<
I think you should read lots of people's ideas and then act on your own
ideas - the ideas you have that have been informed and influenced by
what you've read, yes, but that you've run through your OWN thoughtful,
critical, analytical, testing, examining, sensing brain that have
developed into your personal understanding and belief system...snip...
After a while, your own philosophical structure and understanding will
be strong enough and clear enough that you might only read a few
people's writing because you've figured out that that is where you get
the most help in carrying on in the direction that make sense to you in
the context of your own overarching philospohy/understanding of how life
and learning work.<<
Pam, I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading this.
I find that I *have* come into my own overarching philosophy and
understanding of how life, learning naturally and living with children work
and this understanding has formed inspite of living and learning in a
society that makes it difficult for the most proper and curriculum based
homeschooler to continue homeschooling, let alone the unschooling family.
My partner does not want to "protest" (one could refuse testing for
example). He wants to be as normal as our un-normal family can be :). Yet
when I write about my views...well that is another matter--I start thinking
about Sandra (its true :) ) and what she might say. I really value
coherancey so, here I am, trying to puzzle thru this with you all.

I wrote this over the past several days and I had gained so much
understanding just from writing this out, I wasnt going to post. Then,
after doing a little "natural learning" search, I read a recent post (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/62563 ) within a
similar cultural and political situation as our own (she is in france, her
husband gets nervous, mixed cultural marriage) and I have decided to post
anyway as I would like to respond there as well, but I would really like to
get some clarity on this "feeling off" that I get first.

I have a blog that is intended to be a sort of diary for the school
requirements, I dont publish much yet, tho I have alot of photos collected
by theme on the pc waiting for me to get over my writers block. I really
need to work this through as I know Im not posting because I keep imagining
critical eyes reading my blog. Whew! I really needed to put that down in
writing.

Thanks for reading me thru...
melissa
in italy

http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop/larimeloom
http://www.etsy.com/shop/yarmee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-So
this year life is really lovely, fulfilling, and enriching but recently some
of our experiences are presenting in a way I never really expected nor
wanted. where I am feeling "strained" is because recently, both my 8 yro
and my 11yo want to "work on their writing"--for different reasons I am
sure...but with the result that they are looking to me to direct them and
give them ideas on what to write. If I think about me in "teacher mode" I
feel very uncomfortable...yet we are really having a lot of fun! -=-


"...some of our experiences are presenting in a way..."

You mean things are happening?

When experience is buried under layers of concepts, I'm guessing that your thinking is that way too. Don't think of things as "presenting" themselves. They just are. They're not "your experiences" until afterwards, until you're thinking back on them. They are choices and actions.

I didn't mind being that picky because you went on to this:

-=-So my "feeling off" that Im noticing now comes on when I am thinking about,
writing about our days (for the blog-journal)...NOT when we are living and
doing but when Im writing (to post) about our days. I guess I am feeling
uncomfortable with my blog's http-name(apprendimento naturale or "natural
learning" in english)...as if there is some sort of Natural Learning Ideal
that I must live up to...and if I write about my children's following my
lead (willingly, with choice), ............. -=-

Say "Shanti and I are working on..." and talk about the book. Don't think of yourself as a teacher. Think of yourself as a co-creator, a teacher. Don't make the book with the purpose of learning. Make the book the same way you would build a toilet paper holder or a casserole.

-=- about me preparing materials to strew around-=-

Strewing shouldn't involve prepared materials. If you prepare materials because you live in Italy and inspectors can come, just think of it as that. Preparing for inspectors. Fortifying your unschooling nest for the particular circumstances.

-=-I spend a lot of time translating what we do these day into "schoolese" and it grates my nerves. -=-

Breathe and listen to happy music, then.
If it's all overall easier than the nerve-grating pressures (whatever they might be) that would come from having them in school, then find your gratitude and abundance and it won't grate on your nerves so much.

I think you're looking at it from the inside and feeling overwhelmed. Rise up, look at it from above. Step out of the house (emotionally or logistically anyway) and look at it from a distance.

-=- I live in a home with schooled children so our
work-play space (in italian there is a more neutral word--laboratorio) has
been dubbed "mamma's school room" which bugs me too! It is the "big room"
for the kids (has always had that name)...-=-

They don't have the same associations and prejudices about school you have. Let them live their own lives. Let them think their own thoughts. When they say school room you could say "I *WISH* my school rooms had been this cool!" or you could smile and think how nice they don't have your fears and wounds (or however it is you think of school that makes them saying "school room" seem hurtful). Think of your school room as a super-wonderful alternative-school room, and breathe and sing a happy song.

-=-.I dont know, seems that try as I
might we are always within a schoolish vocabulary that given the
circumstances I cant get away from except within my own mind.-=-

That might be as good as it's going to get in northern Italy in your children's school-aged lifetimes.

See what you do have rather than what you don't.
http://sandradodd.com/abundance

-=-... then I
am "betraying" somehow this ideal. Yeah...thats it. I am feeling torn
between how I envision others to unschool and how it is working out for us...-=-

Yesterday Holly, Keith and I listened to a sales guy/estimator and his in-training assistant, about getting an acrylic cover and shower-surround for our old, ratty bathtub. It will be $3000 and some for the whole job. The ideal would be to have a bathroom remodel, where they take that tub out entirely, knock down all the ceramic tile, take the floor down to subflooring, tear out the counter and that old sink, maybe move the shelves over and get a whole new mirror and medicine cabinet with new lights and maybe a skylight and... $12,000 or more, no doubt. That's not what we're doing, but that's the ideal.

I could dwell on what we're not getting, or I could be really happy that we're getting the bathtub made more usable, attractive and sanitary. The old one was treated and paint flakes come off.

It's a room where people poo and shave. I decided not to have a fulltime job so my kids could be home with me. We would have more money and a nicer house if I had kept working. I could talk about the baseboards, or I could rise up, step back and see that my kids grew up happily in an imperfect house, they had places to poo, the boys grew up to shave, and the little details aren't the focus.

-=- I dont publish much yet, tho I have alot of photos collected
by theme on the pc waiting for me to get over my writers block.-=-

You could just put the photos in, and come back later and write captions if you want. Or write the day you write, with a link back to the post with the photos. You can also backdate writing on a blog--write today, but put the date that you did the things, so they'll still be in chronological order for anyone who wants to read it. Like a book, not like a journal. :-)

When you're editing a post, at the bottom it says "Post Options" and if you click that, to the right it says "Post time and date" and you put in a date and time. It doesn't have to be the future. I use future dates and times for Just Add Light and Stir and The Lyrics Game (which I haven't been keeping up lately, because Just Add Light takes all my blogging energy).

So if loss of blogging opportunity is part of your stress, you can let that go! :-)
I knew lots of teachers who wrote their lesson plans just before the review day when the principal was coming to see them work. They weren't just writing what hadn't happened yet. :-)

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

thank you so much for responding sandra: as always you make some very good
observations and you have a real knack for keeping it lighthearted and
simple.

<<Say "Shanti and I are working on..." and talk about the book. Don't think
> of yourself as a teacher. Think of yourself as a co-creator, a teacher.
> Don't make the book with the purpose of learning. Make the book the same way
> you would build a toilet paper holder or a casserole. <<
>

yes. this *is* the way I approach it--we are doing it together, sometimes I
am on my own, sometimes she is inspired and goes on and othertimes we work
on it together. I am amazed at how much we are doing together, not just
shanti and I, but also giacomo and gioele join in as it looks fun and
interesting. Gio..."ma! me too! I wanna do "compiti" too! give m e
compiti(homework in italian)!!!!" It is so funny to hear if I can stay
there with his enthusiasm and not start thinking and judging the word
"homework"...


> -=- about me preparing materials to strew around-=-
>
> <<Strewing shouldn't involve prepared materials. If you prepare materials
> because you live in Italy and inspectors can come, just think of it as that.
> Preparing for inspectors. Fortifying your unschooling nest for the
> particular circumstances.<<
>

Sandra, I like that you suggest calling it what it is, but Im not so sure it
is only for "preparing for inspectors", nor is it only to put my husband at
ease that I prepare materials.

I started putting up maps because we had them (national geographic) and
because I personally love maps and find them beautiful. I found that the
children looking at them and even were inventing some of their own games
with them, and my smallest (at the time he had just turned 5) surprised me
by drawing an excellent rendition Europe, with italy, corsica and sicily all
in the right places. Inspired by this, I tried to make a few games with the
map of italy and little flags that I had seen on internet and that too,
shanti really enjoyed helping make, and all three (actually the whole
family) still play with from time to time. So when I say "preparing
materials" I mean I am preparing games, and other projects I find on the
internet that I think my children may enjoy, making them pretty, artistic,
and we tend to do it together. It seems to me that this is much like going
shopping for a game, buying it and bringing it home when we think it might
be fun to play.

I guess Im not sure I understand what you are saying: why should strewing
not involve prepared materials?...Is the second example (buying a game)
strewing and the first is not? I guess Im confused!

Also I sometimes find ideas on the internet that I think my children might
enjoy doing, I put them on pinterest, and then when they are bored they like
to look and say "lets try that"...so I need to "prepare materials". Also
they are learning english and italian side by side (actually their italian
is much better) and they really seem to be inspired to learn and speak
english these days so I have tried to make some of the three part
nomenclature cards (montessori-style) that there are so many of for free on
the internet--my children enjoy trying to remember the english words using
these cards to play memory. I enjoy making these things prettily--I cant
afford to buy them--and everytime I do, they are used for a while, and then
they go on to play something else. Sometimes they dont use them. For me it
is all the same...that seems to me to be strewing: Im seeing an interest,
finding stuff (materials) that seem fun (we all enjoy playing memory--I
think thats how its called in english) and preparing them (sometimes buying
them) and putting it out where they can be used. Sometimes I use them
myself (for the italian).

Last night I read a response you wrote on learning to read where you suggest
to make some cards of things he is interested in, with the words written on
them...It seems to me to be the same thing...or no? if not, why?


> -=-I spend a lot of time translating what we do these day into "schoolese"
> and it grates my nerves. -=-
>
> <<Breathe and listen to happy music, then.
> If it's all overall easier than the nerve-grating pressures (whatever they
> might be) that would come from having them in school, then find your
> gratitude and abundance and it won't grate on your nerves so much.<<
>

Thank you for writing that :)
Ive had 4 go thru school. I know what that involves. It is quite different
from my choosing to find ways to say things in school language. Actually I
found a more poetic way for me to "categorise" and stay away from the
school language when I started using Pinterest...for example "chemistry" is
"an elemental world;" "geography" is "the world around us"...I think I will
try to use that IRL, on the blog,and maybe even for the "curriculum" I have
to prepare for the school right now. THanks. Its good to slow down,
breath, and remember to enjoy. :) Within the school-rules I have to/choose
to follow there is quite a bit of wiggle-room for choice.


>
> <<I think you're looking at it from the inside and feeling overwhelmed.
> Rise up, look at it from above. Step out of the house (emotionally or
> logistically anyway) and look at it from a distance.<<
>
> yes...I do get overwhelmed sometimes, when I start thinking "im the only
one doing this"...Saturdaynight was our first ever homeschooling meeting in
the area (well, an hour and a half a way lol)...we met about 50 people, most
were just interested to learn more about it, with about 5 other families
actually homeschooling. Most were younger than my kids, but we had a really
good time...Feels different to actually touch and see others on a similar
path.


> -=- I live in a home with schooled children so our
> work-play space (in italian there is a more neutral word--laboratorio) has
> been dubbed "mamma's school room" which bugs me too! It is the "big room"
> for the kids (has always had that name)...-=-
>
> <<They don't have the same associations and prejudices about school you
> have. Let them live their own lives. Let them think their own thoughts. When
> they say school room you could say "I *WISH* my school rooms had been this
> cool!" or you could smile and think how nice they don't have your fears and
> wounds (or however it is you think of school that makes them saying "school
> room" seem hurtful). Think of your school room as a super-wonderful
> alternative-school room, and breathe and sing a happy song.<<
>

lol. thanks :) Ive been feeling much lighter and sparkly inspired since
reading you. I do wish my school rooms were this cool. My husbnd and I were
talking this morning about how one has choice on how to view things, to see
the cup half empty or half full...and I mentioned as an example my recent
shift (with your help as well as a discussion with a friend of ours who is
visiting for 2 weeks) to not be bugged by calling the "big room" a
"school-room" . He was surprised that it had bugged me so much--"but the
kids are just loving that room now! They are always in the there playing and
working on some project." I really loved hearing that: he noticed! Its a
lovely space the kids love it--and they like to call it "mamma's
school-room". I can see the sweetness of that, now.
:o)


> -=-.I dont know, seems that try as I
> might we are always within a schoolish vocabulary that given the
> circumstances I cant get away from except within my own mind.-=-
>
> <<That might be as good as it's going to get in northern Italy in your
> children's school-aged lifetimes. <<
>


Big wide grin. You have just said a huge truth. It may very well be as
good as it's going to get here--and thats pretty good..I just need to
translate :)




> See what you do have rather than what you don't.
> http://sandradodd.com/abundance
>

thanks for reminding me to read this page again. I really liked this by
Joyce:
<<< "There are, of course, real life restrictions. No one has the ability to
get everything at every moment. Some people do live on budgets. But when
life is approached with seeing what is possible with what is available
rather than what is not possible with what is available, they don't feel as
much like restrictions as challenges.<<<

this is exactly what I am needing to keep for front: feel the challenge, and
thrill of finding solutions rather than getting bogged by feeling all those
restrictions. somehow everything seems much more...*doable* when Im seeing
the "restrictions" as a challenge to find ways to help keep my children
learning in freedom and choice within the boundaries I am living with.


> -=-... then I am "betraying" somehow this ideal. Yeah...thats it. I am
> feeling torn
> between how I envision others to unschool and how it is working out for
> us...-=-
>
> <<I could dwell on what we're not getting, or I could be really happy that
> we're getting the bathtub made more usable, attractive and sanitary. The old
> one was treated and paint flakes come off.
>
> It's a room where people poo and shave. I decided not to have a fulltime
> job so my kids could be home with me. We would have more money and a nicer
> house if I had kept working. I could talk about the baseboards, or I could
> rise up, step back and see that my kids grew up happily in an imperfect
> house, they had places to poo, the boys grew up to shave, and the little
> details aren't the focus.<<
>

yes, I appreciate you taking the time to tell this story: I resonate very
much with this way of looking at things--Ive been stuck in what I havent
got, rather than seeing what I have got: A lot of day to day freedom, a
family that even with the struggles of being a schooling/unschooling home
has shifted gears enough in the last few years for my older dds to notice
and appreciate....and point out to any in the family that might be
complaining, lol.


>

> -=- I dont publish much yet, tho I have alot of photos collected
> by theme on the pc waiting for me to get over my writers block.-=-
>
> You could just put the photos in, and come back later and write captions if
> you want. Or write the day you write, with a link back to the post with the
> photos. You can also backdate writing on a blog--write today, but put the
> date that you did the things, so they'll still be in chronological order for
> anyone who wants to read it. Like a book, not like a journal. :-)
>
> When you're editing a post, at the bottom it says "Post Options" and if you
> click that, to the right it says "Post time and date" and you put in a date
> and time. It doesn't have to be the future. I use future dates and times for
> Just Add Light and Stir and The Lyrics Game (which I haven't been keeping up
> lately, because Just Add Light takes all my blogging energy).
>
> So if loss of blogging opportunity is part of your stress, you can let that
> go! :-)
> I knew lots of teachers who wrote their lesson plans just before the review
> day when the principal was coming to see them work. They weren't just
> writing what hadn't happened yet. :-)
>

thanks for these tips, sandra: blogging is very new for me...and I sometimes
get overwhelmed!

I have a question tho--if I publish something with an older date, for those
that are following me see the addition? or is it buried? (we are a small
group of homeschoolers in italy, but we are pretty "tight knit" on reading
each others blogs.) Does my question even make sense?

>
or after posting, to let others know its up, should I post a little "I
posted this with an older date" + link?

Okay, Im sending this out--please remember that my english is pretty sloppy
these days--I have a heavy italian syntax accent, lol...I try to clean it
up, but Ill never get this out if I dont send it soon!

xxmelissa
in italy
mamma di 7


--

"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- let us meet There."
§Rumi

http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop/larimeloom
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/apprendimentonaturale/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/unschooling-is-not-child-led-learning/
I read this Sunday morning...I love reading Pam Sorooshian :)
I got there through one of those magic hidden passage ways that one
finds on Sandra's site: I started on abundance and ended up exactly
where I needed to read.
In italy, when people talk about unschooling, there is this idea that
it is about leaving kids in a sort of vacuum and they have to
rediscover the wheel, or else its not unschooling....my experience has
not been that at all...but then who am I to say, I think, and try to
explain that it is about giving children choice, respect for their
interests, trusting that children do learn all the time, from
everything....that time is never wasted.  Its about connection, and
sensitivity, its about really being present---but also being easy
going.

pam writes:
<<, “child-led learning,” does emphasize something very important –
that the child is the learner! I couldn’t agree more. However, it also
disregards the significant role played by the parent in helping and
supporting and, yes, quite often taking the lead, in the investigation
and exploration of the world that is unschooling.<<

I think this is a point that seems to get very lost on unschooling
lists...and I am glad that pam takes the time to remind often that
there is a middle ground, remembering the child but not standing back
too much.  I did this in the beginning...more from habit (having
schooled kids for so long I was not used any more to Play and Explore
and Revel in life) then I realised slowly that I could join in on
their fun...and I found out my kids liked my ideas...and I also
learned that they are pretty quick in telling me when they dont, lol.

I think some of my confusion that I write about in my OP was that my
own instinct and experience of what unschooling/natural learning is in
our family was conflicting with this pervasive idea that there is on
the web (particularly the italian web) that unschooling means "never
offer, never say no"  ... when I think about that, it just seems so...
poor, so empty.

<<Unschooling is more like a dance between partners who are so
perfectly in synch with each other that it is hard to tell who is
leading. The partners are sensitive to each others’ little
indications, little movements, slight shifts and they respond.
Sometimes one leads and sometimes the other.

Asking a child if he wants you to read to him should not be thought
about as any different than asking if he wants
to go outside and play pirates or help you bake a cake or wash the dog
or play a game.<<


I love this...and it meshes perfectly with Sandra's advice to me to
not "Make the book the same way you would build a toilet paper holder
or a casserole.

why is that so difficult sometimes to do? just do it because it is
fun, because you want to. not because you "should" nor because you
"need to".

melissa
in italy mamma di 7

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 25, 2011, at 4:06 AM, Melissa Dietrick wrote:

> I guess Im not sure I understand what you are saying: why should
> strewing
> not involve prepared materials?...Is the second example (buying a
> game)
> strewing and the first is not? I guess Im confused!

They're two separate things, both part of living a learningful life.

Sandra came up with the word strewing to get across the idea of
sprinkling the home with interesting things for kids to pick up if
they get intrigued. They're not planned. They're there in the
environment.

Setting up projects is ... setting up projects ;-)

There is also showing them cool things. Which is ... showing them
things you think they might think are cool :-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 25, 2011, at 6:53 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> Sandra came up with the word strewing to get across the idea of
> sprinkling the home with interesting things for kids to pick up if
> they get intrigued. They're not planned. They're there in the
> environment.
>
> Setting up projects is ... setting up projects ;-)

Expanding on what I wrote ;-) ...

If you're "strewing" things that involve a lot of prep then it will be
harder to treat them casually. Harder to not be disappointed if the
kids ignore them. Strewing needs to be casual. It's a leaf. A book. A
comic. A thing to twiddle with. It's chum tossed into the home
ocean. ;-) If they bite, they bite. If they don't, it drops to the
bottom and you can sweep it away for now to replace it with something
else.

If you want something that's more involved, think of it as a gift that
you want in the home. It's not a "strew".

Don't try to label everything you do for unschooling as strewing. Do
lots of different things :-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I guess Im not sure I understand what you are saying: why should strewing
not involve prepared materials?...Is the second example (buying a game)
strewing and the first is not? I guess Im confused!-=-

It sounds like building something and then leaving it out. Like a trap. :-)

Buying a game is buying a game.

Leaving a cool leaf in a bowl on a table is the kind of strewing I recommend. Just something interesting that can be ignored or "found." Not something that took several steps to procure or create, and would take several steps to use. Why not call that what it is?

I know this will seem picky and odd to some, and maybe irritating. I'm not trying to make rules about strewing. I'm hoping for simplicity and plain, clear thinking, rather than two, three, four-level pressured complicated worrying.

-=-I enjoy making these things prettily--I cant
afford to buy them--and everytime I do, they are used for a while, and then
they go on to play something else. Sometimes they dont use them. For me it
is all the same...that seems to me to be strewing: Im seeing an interest,
finding stuff (materials) that seem fun (we all enjoy playing memory--I
think thats how its called in english) and preparing them (sometimes buying
them) and putting it out where they can be used. Sometimes I use them
myself (for the italian).

-=-Last night I read a response you wrote on learning to read where you suggest
to make some cards of things he is interested in, with the words written on
them...It seems to me to be the same thing...or no? if not, why?-=-

Playing with words on cards is that. Playing with words. Some kids find it really fun.

There was a suggestion years ago by someone who's no longer in and around the unschooling discussions, but she had "word jail"--a box for words that don't follow the rules, that aren't obvious or easy to read. So simple, plain, "right" words went in one box, and the other one was "word jail," and they did it for fun and to be funny and to play with the differences in English words that make sense on sight, and those that don't. Like (looking at this paragraph) maybe "sight" and "right." Though once you see a set (light, fight) they can maybe get out of jail for making some kind of sense. Seven or eight hundred years ago, they had a "hoik" in the middle like some German words do, but now it's been dropped.

Whatever you do, do lightly.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I have a question tho--if I publish something with an older date, for those
that are following me see the addition? or is it buried? (we are a small
group of homeschoolers in italy, but we are pretty "tight knit" on reading
each others blogs.) Does my question even make sense?-=-

There is a sidebar. Maybe you could put a note there "New posts for... "and date, and maybe a link and then take that down after a few days or weeks; they'll show in the directory of all posts.

-=-I mentioned as an example my recent
shift (with your help as well as a discussion with a friend of ours who is
visiting for 2 weeks) to not be bugged by calling the "big room" a
"school-room" . He was surprised that it had bugged me so much--"but the
kids are just loving that room now! They are always in the there playing and
working on some project." I really loved hearing that: he noticed! Its a
lovely space the kids love it--and they like to call it "mamma's
school-room". I can see the sweetness of that, now.
:o)-=-

It would be sad if you jumped to negativity about what they called it, and tried to control the name of the room, and caused them to love it less.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- this pervasive idea that there is on
the web (particularly the italian web) that unschooling means "never
offer, never say no" ... when I think about that, it just seems so...
poor, so empty.-=-

Sheesh, that IS like a vacuum.

That language sounds almost exactly like La Leche League's child-led weaning advice, though! "Don't offer, don't refuse."

-=-why is that so difficult sometimes to do? just do it because it is
fun, because you want to. not because you "should" nor because you
"need to".-=-

Because decisions are weighted and it's easy to use a scale that involves what the neighbors think, what the current mainstream medical advice is, what church or grandma would say. THAT is why it's important to live by principles. Decide what YOU think is important. What is YOUR goal for your relationship with your children? Then make decisions on that scale.

Mine involved whether things were happy and fun and safe, and whether kids would be learning. If what they were doing sparked their minds and wasn't going to hurt anyone or cause them to be bad people in any way, then it was a good thing, a good decision, or a good recommendation. Different families have different considerations. Some live in apartment buildings and need to be quieter (which comes under the being good people part--not good to be rude, or to break the rules of where you live). Some are very religious and so religious rules ARE at the top of the list.

Whatever the criteria become for decisionmaking, the parents and children should still be living together, in the real world, discussing, exploring, partaking of it.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-If you're "strewing" things that involve a lot of prep then it will be
harder to treat them casually. Harder to not be disappointed if the
kids ignore them. Strewing needs to be casual. It's a leaf. A book. A
comic. A thing to twiddle with. It's chum tossed into the home
ocean. ;-) If they bite, they bite. If they don't, it drops to the
bottom and you can sweep it away for now to replace it with something
else.-=-

Nice. :-)

If they bite, they bite.

Coffee tables, when they were new and exciting in the 1950's and 60's, I guess, had an ideal. I saw it in magazines all the time. There was a fanned or offset array of high-class magazines, and a conversation piece. The conversation piece was a big conch shell, or a sculpture, or a piece of varnished driftwood, or an object from a foreign country, but mostly in the magazines it was something assymetrical without any words on it, with points for it being natural and not manufactured.

That's all filtered through what I saw and thought, and isn't the quote of Better Homes and Gardens or Architecture Digest or anything.

Sometimes a conversation piece was set on a sideboard or a table other than the coffeetable, but it seems no family was obliged to have more than one "conversation piece." So there was virtue in owning and displaying one oddity for the purpose of inciting conversation, when I was a kid.

Huh.

Then I was asked, in the early 1990s, how I was able to introduce new things to my kids without a curriculum and I said "I strew their paths with interesting things." It wasn't a literal path, and I wasn't literally scattering handfuls of things out randomly.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

sandra

<<It sounds like building something and then leaving it out. Like a trap.
:-)<<

<<I know this will seem picky and odd to some, and maybe irritating. I'm not
trying to make rules about strewing. I'm hoping for simplicity and plain,
clear thinking, rather than two, three, four-level pressured complicated
worrying.<<

I dont mind the "pickyness" at all. Words are important and on a list with a
specific purpose its good to be using the same definitions of a word. I
didnt know that sandra "invented" the use of the word, . It seems to me to
be a pretty straightforward word but your definition for its particular use
in unschooling is pretty ...particular :).

I think that Im not leaving stuff out like a trap...though of course Im
pleased if it catches anyones interest. I wont call it strewing here, but I
probably will be still using the term in a more loose way in italian (my
version of it). I like how I use it, its "simple and plain " to me with no
worrying on it at all.

Tho if my children do learn what the school officials would like them to
know on their exams because Ive invented games or made something , Im not
complaining! and my husband is breaths more easily since I have been
choosing to do stuff like that. So maybe it seems to be multileveled, but
really Im just taking care of a lot of flys with one slice of bread and jam!
it will make any official visitors happy, it makes my husband happy, it
makes me happy, and my kids are just as free to take or leave it . no traps
intended tho I can see where the worry can be.

Joyce :
<<They're two separate things, both part of living a learningful life.
Sandra came up with the word strewing to get across the idea of
sprinkling the home with interesting things for kids to pick up if
they get intrigued. They're not planned. They're there in the
environment.<<

well, that sort of strewing seems to me to be pretty normal stuff! we
already have that! what is missing, lol, is stuff that might be on the exam
:/ which I have very little control over, tho Im working on figuring ways
around that...


<<If you're "strewing" things that involve a lot of prep then it will be
harder to treat them casually. Harder to not be disappointed if the
kids ignore them. Strewing needs to be casual. It's a leaf. A book. A
comic. A thing to twiddle with. It's chum tossed into the home
ocean. ;-) If they bite, they bite. If they don't, it drops to the
bottom and you can sweep it away for now to replace it with something
else.

If you want something that's more involved, think of it as a gift that
you want in the home. It's not a "strew".<<

Okay. I get how you use the word. Nice. I also read some of
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
again.

okay. so Im "preparing the environment" (I know, thats a montessori term but
it fits) and learning in the process(me for sure, and sometimes them too).
Im making games. Im doing progects, they are doing progects, and then we are
also "strewing" but that is already a huge part of our life. Im needing to
"prepare the environment" to keep poppi and the school officials happy. Im
not attached at all to how they are used...Ive seen that for the most part
they are used once and again...just like the legos, the computer games,
videos, books ecc.

from http://sandradodd.com/strew/sandra
<<Strewing: one way to look at it is similar to when you were dating your
beloved. You studied that person, learned likes, dislikes, interests, etc.
You found out maybe that your beloved liked spicy foods (and you hit every
tex-mex restaurant in town). So you saw a new Thai restaurant open up nearby
and extended an invitation to try it out. Thai food can be quite spicy. Your
beloved might say No thanks. Or maybe I'll think about it. Or maybe okay
let's go. And then afterward decide not to touch Thai food again, the spices
are too different. You found something that might be of interest. Brought it
into view. Your beloved could do with it whatever suited�no strings
attached. That no strings is where it differs from 'setting up' kids for
'educational experiences'. You bring home a neat bird's nest you found BUT
it has strings attached (and not the ones holding the nest together)� it
usually comes with enforced study of birds, nests, habitats, etc. rather
than "Hey this is really cool�anyone want to see it?" and let it take on a
life of its own�one might glance up and go back to drawing manga, another
might be fascinated and try to figure out what kind of bird it belongs to, a
third might look at the nest and try to weave something him/her self and
maybe get interested in weaving, basketry, knitting, and who-knows-what. No
strings.<<

I get the no strings attached. *Its hard not* to get that: my children are
pretty straight forward with their "no, that sounds...(fill in the blank)
;-).

xxmel in italy

--

"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- let us meet There."
�Rumi

http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop/larimeloom
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/apprendimentonaturale/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

-=- this pervasive idea that there is on the web (particularly the italian
web) that unschooling means "never offer, never say no" ... when I think
about that, it just seems so...poor, so empty.-=-

<<Sheesh, that IS like a vacuum.<<

yes, and with that sort of vacuum, most people are saying its impossible to
unschool in italy given the exams.
(or given what ever you want--they wont learn x or y or z...but lets not get
into that). so I have been explaining strewing ...but obviously its not
your definition of it...tho Im pretty clear on the "no strings attached"
part and try to get that across.

<<That language sounds almost exactly like La Leche League's child-led
weaning advice, though! "Don't offer, don't refuse."<<
lol, it does, and thats advice that I never followed: I have *always*
offered, as well as listened for requests, and as they got older, sometimes
I refused after negotiation (like "after mommy finishes this then we can do
pippo").

thanks
melissa in italy

"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- let us meet There."
§Rumi

http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop/larimeloom
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/apprendimentonaturale/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]