self-satisfaction and mental health
Sandra Dodd
I want to think about the range of emotions about how we decide how we feel about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an unschooling parent.
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame
It's partly just a fleeting early-morning thought, but it seemed worth looking at a little more.
How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
Sandra
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame
It's partly just a fleeting early-morning thought, but it seemed worth looking at a little more.
How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
Sandra
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
For me shorter days , grey days hugely affect how I feel and see things around me.
BUT if I am aware of it I can still choose to change those thoughts around and by doing it change my feelings too.
Changing thoughts and doing things that help me like exercise.
Some days it takes a lot of work. Some it takes a second and I am back to content and feeling good.
I do have anxiety here and there . That has been my biggest hurdle.
If I am anxious I cannot drink anything with caffeine as that could lead me to an anxiety attack so I try to be mindful of how I feel in the morning so I do not drink some coffee and turn my day into me paralyzed in my chair.
Physical exercise helps me immensely to keep my moods in check. It is biochemistry.
So going for a walk or running around with the kids, specially when I do not feel like it sometimes, is what can get me back to my content and patient self.
Books are definitely my escape, sometimes movies, but books. I love to scape in a book. They help me specially now that I started getting audio books on my phone from the library free. I can put my headphone and work around the farm and the house and still stop any second and be present for the kids. Easier to pause than movies , books or computer and keep me moving which is awesome. I get so much done and that makes me feel better too. Plus my mind it occupied and I don't keep thinking and worrying.
There are still some days , specially when something big happens like the first week after my brother was in an accident and in coma, that I was pretty much paralyzed and not doing as good as I would have liked. But I took deep breaths and finally was able to start getting out of it.
I did make an effort to.
I have to say that there are days I choose to wallow in a little funk but those are once every couple of years thing. They used to be more often but I know really focus on my kids and being positive.
Making an effort to look at the good things in my life is key too. Too many people are too invested on the negatives or looking for the negatives and too much complain. Stop complaining. I try not to complain about anything, specially my kids and husband.
The more you complain the less you see the good in that person.
Things are going to get a little harder for me now in the Winter. I need to get back on exercising everyday so I can keep my self from winter blues. That is hard for me and I think specially because I grew up in Brazil where there is no winter.
I don't know if that is what you were getting at Sandra . I hope it helps someone.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BUT if I am aware of it I can still choose to change those thoughts around and by doing it change my feelings too.
Changing thoughts and doing things that help me like exercise.
Some days it takes a lot of work. Some it takes a second and I am back to content and feeling good.
I do have anxiety here and there . That has been my biggest hurdle.
If I am anxious I cannot drink anything with caffeine as that could lead me to an anxiety attack so I try to be mindful of how I feel in the morning so I do not drink some coffee and turn my day into me paralyzed in my chair.
Physical exercise helps me immensely to keep my moods in check. It is biochemistry.
So going for a walk or running around with the kids, specially when I do not feel like it sometimes, is what can get me back to my content and patient self.
Books are definitely my escape, sometimes movies, but books. I love to scape in a book. They help me specially now that I started getting audio books on my phone from the library free. I can put my headphone and work around the farm and the house and still stop any second and be present for the kids. Easier to pause than movies , books or computer and keep me moving which is awesome. I get so much done and that makes me feel better too. Plus my mind it occupied and I don't keep thinking and worrying.
There are still some days , specially when something big happens like the first week after my brother was in an accident and in coma, that I was pretty much paralyzed and not doing as good as I would have liked. But I took deep breaths and finally was able to start getting out of it.
I did make an effort to.
I have to say that there are days I choose to wallow in a little funk but those are once every couple of years thing. They used to be more often but I know really focus on my kids and being positive.
Making an effort to look at the good things in my life is key too. Too many people are too invested on the negatives or looking for the negatives and too much complain. Stop complaining. I try not to complain about anything, specially my kids and husband.
The more you complain the less you see the good in that person.
Things are going to get a little harder for me now in the Winter. I need to get back on exercising everyday so I can keep my self from winter blues. That is hard for me and I think specially because I grew up in Brazil where there is no winter.
I don't know if that is what you were getting at Sandra . I hope it helps someone.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
brandi yates
I am reading a great book right now I found on Amazon. I looked up
attachment parenting and it brought me to a book called Living from the
Center of the Soul: The Teachings of Grandfather Joseph
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Center-Soul-Grandfather-ebook/dp/B005HK8YPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319209790&sr=8-1
Its about living from your heart and so far it is really good :)
attachment parenting and it brought me to a book called Living from the
Center of the Soul: The Teachings of Grandfather Joseph
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Center-Soul-Grandfather-ebook/dp/B005HK8YPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319209790&sr=8-1
Its about living from your heart and so far it is really good :)
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I want to think about the range of emotions about how we decide how we feel
> about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an
> unschooling parent.
>
> pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame
>
> It's partly just a fleeting early-morning thought, but it seemed worth
> looking at a little more.
>
> How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a
> biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
>
> Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
>
> Sandra
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
david lewis
***I want to think about the range of emotions about how we decide how we feel
about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an
unschooling parent.
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame***
Ive been disturbed about the awesome trend. I made soup, Im awesome. I
cleaned my house, Im awesome. Most of it is probably meant in fun but if
you really think youre awesome because youve done something so ordinary
youre not thinking well. And if you need to talk about yourself like that in
order to feel ok then maybe more serious self analysis is in order.
And Its all good, seems to me to be an example of more delusional or sloppy
thinking. And I do sometimes worry about the emotional state of people who
seem to need to think that. The awesome-its-all-good stuff seems like a
form of magical thinking. Michael Shermer has said that people are more
inclined to superstitious or magical thinking when they feel powerless or out
of control.
And my disclaimer here is that a lot of people probably use those phrases in
fun, or use, its all good as a synonym for thats ok, and not all of
that points to kookiness.
Discontent and shame were motivation for me to try very hard to be a good mom.
I wanted to be a different kind of mom than my mom had been. She wasnt
horrible, she was very sweet in many ways, but she was manipulative and
shaming and not very honest. I saw those things as contributing to my
unhappiness and didnt want to pass them along.
I dont know if I think much about pride or self satisfaction. Maybe if I
had accomplished something really marvelous (dare I say awesome?<g>) in my
life it would be different. Ive had an ordinary life, and thats ok. I
have moments when I solve a problem or accomplish some goal that I feel
satisfied (and sometimes a little surprised!<g>) Most often I feel as if I
can and should do better. I dont always accomplish that.
I think of myself as realistic. At either end of that is cynicism and
optimism but all, Im pretty sure,<g> within a thoughtful range, neither
extreme nor delusional. Im not smart or educated or special. Im one of
nearly seven billion humans on the planet and theres nothing extraordinary
about me. I feel really lucky to have a nice husband and a healthy son and a
life free of war and violence. Were not likely to change the world or do
anything awesome though. <g>
***How self-analytical should we be?***
Very. I think its better to understand whats happening in our own heads
than to be oblivious. I dont think a person can make reasoned judgments or
decisions if she doesnt understand her own motivation. And I think
questioning your own motivation is an important part of being honest.
***Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs.
agitation?***
Sonja Lyubomirsky is a psychology professor who wrote a book called The How of
Happiness. (which I have not read) Its claim, in the wide field of self
help books, is that the strategies it offers are backed by scientific
research. The book claims fifty percent of a persons happiness or
unhappiness is determined by genetics, ten percent by life circumstances and
the remaining forty percent is within our control. Im pretty sure if youre
malnourished, living in a refugee camp in Kenya, your life circumstances are
contributing more than ten percent to your level of unhappiness. But if
forty percent is within the control of the average unschooling parent then
understanding how that fifty percent is influencing you seems like a good
idea.
Deb Lewis
about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an
unschooling parent.
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame***
Ive been disturbed about the awesome trend. I made soup, Im awesome. I
cleaned my house, Im awesome. Most of it is probably meant in fun but if
you really think youre awesome because youve done something so ordinary
youre not thinking well. And if you need to talk about yourself like that in
order to feel ok then maybe more serious self analysis is in order.
And Its all good, seems to me to be an example of more delusional or sloppy
thinking. And I do sometimes worry about the emotional state of people who
seem to need to think that. The awesome-its-all-good stuff seems like a
form of magical thinking. Michael Shermer has said that people are more
inclined to superstitious or magical thinking when they feel powerless or out
of control.
And my disclaimer here is that a lot of people probably use those phrases in
fun, or use, its all good as a synonym for thats ok, and not all of
that points to kookiness.
Discontent and shame were motivation for me to try very hard to be a good mom.
I wanted to be a different kind of mom than my mom had been. She wasnt
horrible, she was very sweet in many ways, but she was manipulative and
shaming and not very honest. I saw those things as contributing to my
unhappiness and didnt want to pass them along.
I dont know if I think much about pride or self satisfaction. Maybe if I
had accomplished something really marvelous (dare I say awesome?<g>) in my
life it would be different. Ive had an ordinary life, and thats ok. I
have moments when I solve a problem or accomplish some goal that I feel
satisfied (and sometimes a little surprised!<g>) Most often I feel as if I
can and should do better. I dont always accomplish that.
I think of myself as realistic. At either end of that is cynicism and
optimism but all, Im pretty sure,<g> within a thoughtful range, neither
extreme nor delusional. Im not smart or educated or special. Im one of
nearly seven billion humans on the planet and theres nothing extraordinary
about me. I feel really lucky to have a nice husband and a healthy son and a
life free of war and violence. Were not likely to change the world or do
anything awesome though. <g>
***How self-analytical should we be?***
Very. I think its better to understand whats happening in our own heads
than to be oblivious. I dont think a person can make reasoned judgments or
decisions if she doesnt understand her own motivation. And I think
questioning your own motivation is an important part of being honest.
***Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs.
agitation?***
Sonja Lyubomirsky is a psychology professor who wrote a book called The How of
Happiness. (which I have not read) Its claim, in the wide field of self
help books, is that the strategies it offers are backed by scientific
research. The book claims fifty percent of a persons happiness or
unhappiness is determined by genetics, ten percent by life circumstances and
the remaining forty percent is within our control. Im pretty sure if youre
malnourished, living in a refugee camp in Kenya, your life circumstances are
contributing more than ten percent to your level of unhappiness. But if
forty percent is within the control of the average unschooling parent then
understanding how that fifty percent is influencing you seems like a good
idea.
Deb Lewis
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
A certain amount of self-analysis keeps me from being at the mercy of my biochemical state. It's also important for me to be very, very skeptical of my instincts and gut reactions - some are very useful and valid, but some are not. My instincts heartily approve of corporal punishment, for instance, even though my head doesn't at all - any more. My instincts are very selfish and me-oriented - which isn't All bad, but its not all good either. It's that balance thing again ;)
But I think this is a kind of balancing act which is different for everyone. Some people come to parenting and unschooling needing to listen harder to their gut feelings, who need to question their ideas about Right and Wrong against the softer sentiments of their hearts. There's baggage tied up in there relating to how women are socialized, too (and men, but its different baggage). Some women come from backgrounds of martyrdom and need to learn to listen to whatever part of themselves - head or heart - which moves them to recognize and uphold their own boundaries so that unschooling doesn't turn into "letting the children rule." That often seems to be a very emotional process - to me, from what I've read of others' struggles in that regard - a matter of learning to listen to their guts which are saying "hey, I'm important, too!"
At the same time other women, like me, need to stretch our (very strong and well-defended!) boundaries in order to engage more with kids on an emotional level. For me, that's a curiously analytic process - I need to think my way down to my heart and then temper what I find there with mindfulness. My heart is a passionate place, but not a kind place and it takes thought for me to move from passion to compassion and understanding.
---Meredith
>> How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?*************
A certain amount of self-analysis keeps me from being at the mercy of my biochemical state. It's also important for me to be very, very skeptical of my instincts and gut reactions - some are very useful and valid, but some are not. My instincts heartily approve of corporal punishment, for instance, even though my head doesn't at all - any more. My instincts are very selfish and me-oriented - which isn't All bad, but its not all good either. It's that balance thing again ;)
But I think this is a kind of balancing act which is different for everyone. Some people come to parenting and unschooling needing to listen harder to their gut feelings, who need to question their ideas about Right and Wrong against the softer sentiments of their hearts. There's baggage tied up in there relating to how women are socialized, too (and men, but its different baggage). Some women come from backgrounds of martyrdom and need to learn to listen to whatever part of themselves - head or heart - which moves them to recognize and uphold their own boundaries so that unschooling doesn't turn into "letting the children rule." That often seems to be a very emotional process - to me, from what I've read of others' struggles in that regard - a matter of learning to listen to their guts which are saying "hey, I'm important, too!"
At the same time other women, like me, need to stretch our (very strong and well-defended!) boundaries in order to engage more with kids on an emotional level. For me, that's a curiously analytic process - I need to think my way down to my heart and then temper what I find there with mindfulness. My heart is a passionate place, but not a kind place and it takes thought for me to move from passion to compassion and understanding.
---Meredith
[email protected]
<< I want to think about the range of emotions about how we decide how we feel about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an unschooling parent.
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame >>
<< How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation? >>
What this touched on for me is my struggle with anxiety, and how deeply it affects my parenting. I am working with a counsellor in Emotion Focus Therapy who said that from the people she's met with anxiety issues, it seems to be about being/feeling completely alone. What she said rang true for me. I grew up with a young, absent (emotionally, mentally, physically), overwhelmed single mother. I faced the big scary world alone. The way I learned to cope as a child having to navigate the big scary world was through perfectionism (if I do everything right, I can avoid attack and criticism for which there was no protection, contradiction or comfort), and through avoiding taking risks. Of course, one cannot be perfect and avoid everything negative, so I got used being in a constant state of fear and uncertainty, desperately seeking solid ground. Lots of shame. Shame is a big one. (As an aside, there is a wonderful TEDtalk by shame researcher Brene Brown. It spoke to me, anyway. Great book too: The Gifts of Imperfection).
When I was pregnant with my first child, I knew from what I'd learned in my childhood that I wanted something very different for him. I had also learned that how children feel and what they think is real and important. After all, I carried my childhood feelings and thoughts into adulthood, when people start to matter in our society. I was therefore drawn to attachment parenting, and did the best that I could with it. I *knew* from my experience that being present (mentally, emotionally, physically) for my children was the single most important thing I could do for them as a parent. But I couldn't do it. My anxiety got in the way of seeing and being with my children. I was too worried about being a good mom to *be* a good mom. I was constantly panicked and overwhelmed, so I was constantly looking for escape. Sigh.
When I read about unschooling, I felt like I was home. Tearfully, joyfully, ecstatically home. Finally, other people were discussing children and parenting in the ways I think about them, even if I hadn't been able to get clarity and follow through. Finally, I had some guidance. A shift began. For the first time I was able to let go of some of the things "others" said would make me a good mom, regardless of my particular children. Finally, I had the sweet, joyful experience of Being With my children.
For me (it may be different for others), peace is not a bio-chemical state, but a state of mind; it's a shift in thinking, understanding and focus. Being self-analytical is very tricky for me: it is necessary for me to learn and grow, but my perfectionism is lurking, trying to break me down and build me back up in (impossible) certainty and infallibility. Self-analytical easily becomes self-critical, and contributes to a negative spiral of failure, lack of confidence and general misery.
I am at the beginning of my unschooling journey. My tendency is to want to work really hard and do it all right, right now. Done. But of course, it doesn't work that way. My drive for perfection in unschooling temporarily replaces my anxiety, taking me away from my children, away from now. The false path I am walking inevitably leads me further away from where I want to be. Overthinking, stress, failure, self-criticism, crisis, panic, fear. Until I can find my way back to imperfection, patience, breathing, believing, trusting, being, now. Peace. Finding and staying for as long as possible in that sweetspot of presence, joy, confidence, is currently my greatest challenge as an unschooling parent. But I am soooo grateful for what unschooling has already given me; it has been infinite even though I've only scratched the surface.
Thank you,
Mairi.
pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame >>
<< How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation? >>
What this touched on for me is my struggle with anxiety, and how deeply it affects my parenting. I am working with a counsellor in Emotion Focus Therapy who said that from the people she's met with anxiety issues, it seems to be about being/feeling completely alone. What she said rang true for me. I grew up with a young, absent (emotionally, mentally, physically), overwhelmed single mother. I faced the big scary world alone. The way I learned to cope as a child having to navigate the big scary world was through perfectionism (if I do everything right, I can avoid attack and criticism for which there was no protection, contradiction or comfort), and through avoiding taking risks. Of course, one cannot be perfect and avoid everything negative, so I got used being in a constant state of fear and uncertainty, desperately seeking solid ground. Lots of shame. Shame is a big one. (As an aside, there is a wonderful TEDtalk by shame researcher Brene Brown. It spoke to me, anyway. Great book too: The Gifts of Imperfection).
When I was pregnant with my first child, I knew from what I'd learned in my childhood that I wanted something very different for him. I had also learned that how children feel and what they think is real and important. After all, I carried my childhood feelings and thoughts into adulthood, when people start to matter in our society. I was therefore drawn to attachment parenting, and did the best that I could with it. I *knew* from my experience that being present (mentally, emotionally, physically) for my children was the single most important thing I could do for them as a parent. But I couldn't do it. My anxiety got in the way of seeing and being with my children. I was too worried about being a good mom to *be* a good mom. I was constantly panicked and overwhelmed, so I was constantly looking for escape. Sigh.
When I read about unschooling, I felt like I was home. Tearfully, joyfully, ecstatically home. Finally, other people were discussing children and parenting in the ways I think about them, even if I hadn't been able to get clarity and follow through. Finally, I had some guidance. A shift began. For the first time I was able to let go of some of the things "others" said would make me a good mom, regardless of my particular children. Finally, I had the sweet, joyful experience of Being With my children.
For me (it may be different for others), peace is not a bio-chemical state, but a state of mind; it's a shift in thinking, understanding and focus. Being self-analytical is very tricky for me: it is necessary for me to learn and grow, but my perfectionism is lurking, trying to break me down and build me back up in (impossible) certainty and infallibility. Self-analytical easily becomes self-critical, and contributes to a negative spiral of failure, lack of confidence and general misery.
I am at the beginning of my unschooling journey. My tendency is to want to work really hard and do it all right, right now. Done. But of course, it doesn't work that way. My drive for perfection in unschooling temporarily replaces my anxiety, taking me away from my children, away from now. The false path I am walking inevitably leads me further away from where I want to be. Overthinking, stress, failure, self-criticism, crisis, panic, fear. Until I can find my way back to imperfection, patience, breathing, believing, trusting, being, now. Peace. Finding and staying for as long as possible in that sweetspot of presence, joy, confidence, is currently my greatest challenge as an unschooling parent. But I am soooo grateful for what unschooling has already given me; it has been infinite even though I've only scratched the surface.
Thank you,
Mairi.
Jenny Cyphers
***How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?***
I think self awareness is really important for unschooling. It's great to be peaceful and happy, but really great when a person is aware of what they are feeling and reacting to,.even if that is a state of agitation. Being able to recognize where you are emotionally can help you move to a different and better emotional state. There is little more frustrating than dealing with another person who not only can't find a way to be happy and peaceful, but doesn't even notice that they aren't.
One common factor among the teens that end up at our house, is this inability to recognize their own emotional state beyond reacting. It can be problematic when you want to address an issue logically and reach a consensus or a goal to solve an issue. If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. My younger daughter still gets stuck, but is maturing in a way that I know she's getting better with it. My oldest is really self aware and gets frustrated dealing with others that just aren't.
I wish more parents would help their kids with that. I wish more kids weren't left to react as their only defense mechanism. I think too many people reach adulthood without self awareness skills.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think self awareness is really important for unschooling. It's great to be peaceful and happy, but really great when a person is aware of what they are feeling and reacting to,.even if that is a state of agitation. Being able to recognize where you are emotionally can help you move to a different and better emotional state. There is little more frustrating than dealing with another person who not only can't find a way to be happy and peaceful, but doesn't even notice that they aren't.
One common factor among the teens that end up at our house, is this inability to recognize their own emotional state beyond reacting. It can be problematic when you want to address an issue logically and reach a consensus or a goal to solve an issue. If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. My younger daughter still gets stuck, but is maturing in a way that I know she's getting better with it. My oldest is really self aware and gets frustrated dealing with others that just aren't.
I wish more parents would help their kids with that. I wish more kids weren't left to react as their only defense mechanism. I think too many people reach adulthood without self awareness skills.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 21, 2011, at 5:22 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
I always wonder how self-analytical others are -- I feel like I am examining myself, my behavior, my thoughts, my feelings�nonstop. I think my daughters are, too. I do not think my husband is doing it to the extent that we are and I think there are many people who are not at all self-analytical.
When I say self-analytical, I mean that there is a part of myself that is standing aside, watching me, and thinking about why I'm choosing what I am choosing.
Part of it is a critical voice and is clearly something I've carried from childhood and it is judgmental, not always helpful, sometimes caused me to avoid doing things for fear of doing them wrong. I didn't have super critical parents - it isn't necessarily a parent-voice - but a combination of adults in my life from my 4th grade teacher to my grandmother to my cello teacher to the youth minister at my church and on and on. That voice used to be strong - it isn't anymore, but even when we started unschooling about 16 or so years ago, it was still strong enough to be a factor in my choices.
So - I've moved beyond that from-the-outside critical voice in my head. Now it is really my own voice I hear. And my own voice is more thoughtful, analytical, and kind. But, yes, it is there, pretty much nonstop. I am ALWAYS considering why I am doing something - wondering what is motivating me, and checking in on myself and how I am feeling about my choices.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't quite so much this way. Sometimes I want to just "be" and not be aware of being. Like a happy dog or cat, perhaps.
What I have learned/gained over the years is the ability to move on from a decision I have already made - to accept it and not rehash decisions over and over in my mind. I don't do that at all. Even if I regret something, I have become able to say to myself, "Okay, learn from it and don't make that mistake again. Now, what can you do to make things better?" So when I say self-analytical, I am not at all beating myself up over spilt milk.
Sandra often has said that one way to become a better parent is to always have at least two options in mind and choose the better one. This was a really great little piece of advice that I easily took to heart and it had profound influences on my parenting and on my life, in general. I think it was intended to get people to think of at least one other option, to get out of being stuck in a rut of how they respond to children and their problems, issues, and needs. But I always had a LOT of options in my mind�thinking "pick two, choose the better one" helped me to think in a more pairwise fashion - to think more clearly. I would mentally take the one option I was inclined toward in the rush of the moment and then pick one more option from all the others that my mind quickly listed. I'd pick the better of those two. I think Sandra's advice was really more intended to help people become more self-analytical - to stop and consider whether they could come up with some other option, to think about why they were choosing the option they did, to analyze which of the two options was "better." And I think it is probably the best exercise for that because it is one you can practice in your own mind and that you get better and better at the more you do it. Like basketball player, sitting on the bench, mentally practicing free throw shooting, parents can mentally practice how they are going to respond the next time the kids bicker, grab, hit, or whatever other issues might come up. This is a kind of self-analysis that is incredibly useful and practical.
Those people who come to unschooling and dive in head first --- probably need to be more self-analytical. I often have the urge to say, "Stop and think," to them. Yes, I am a proponent of unschooling, but don't just do it - it is not something to just "do." You need to think about it and about how to do it in a way that will suit your family, your lifestyle, your personalities, etc. In other words, be more self-analytical.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>><<<
> How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
>
> Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
I always wonder how self-analytical others are -- I feel like I am examining myself, my behavior, my thoughts, my feelings�nonstop. I think my daughters are, too. I do not think my husband is doing it to the extent that we are and I think there are many people who are not at all self-analytical.
When I say self-analytical, I mean that there is a part of myself that is standing aside, watching me, and thinking about why I'm choosing what I am choosing.
Part of it is a critical voice and is clearly something I've carried from childhood and it is judgmental, not always helpful, sometimes caused me to avoid doing things for fear of doing them wrong. I didn't have super critical parents - it isn't necessarily a parent-voice - but a combination of adults in my life from my 4th grade teacher to my grandmother to my cello teacher to the youth minister at my church and on and on. That voice used to be strong - it isn't anymore, but even when we started unschooling about 16 or so years ago, it was still strong enough to be a factor in my choices.
So - I've moved beyond that from-the-outside critical voice in my head. Now it is really my own voice I hear. And my own voice is more thoughtful, analytical, and kind. But, yes, it is there, pretty much nonstop. I am ALWAYS considering why I am doing something - wondering what is motivating me, and checking in on myself and how I am feeling about my choices.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't quite so much this way. Sometimes I want to just "be" and not be aware of being. Like a happy dog or cat, perhaps.
What I have learned/gained over the years is the ability to move on from a decision I have already made - to accept it and not rehash decisions over and over in my mind. I don't do that at all. Even if I regret something, I have become able to say to myself, "Okay, learn from it and don't make that mistake again. Now, what can you do to make things better?" So when I say self-analytical, I am not at all beating myself up over spilt milk.
Sandra often has said that one way to become a better parent is to always have at least two options in mind and choose the better one. This was a really great little piece of advice that I easily took to heart and it had profound influences on my parenting and on my life, in general. I think it was intended to get people to think of at least one other option, to get out of being stuck in a rut of how they respond to children and their problems, issues, and needs. But I always had a LOT of options in my mind�thinking "pick two, choose the better one" helped me to think in a more pairwise fashion - to think more clearly. I would mentally take the one option I was inclined toward in the rush of the moment and then pick one more option from all the others that my mind quickly listed. I'd pick the better of those two. I think Sandra's advice was really more intended to help people become more self-analytical - to stop and consider whether they could come up with some other option, to think about why they were choosing the option they did, to analyze which of the two options was "better." And I think it is probably the best exercise for that because it is one you can practice in your own mind and that you get better and better at the more you do it. Like basketball player, sitting on the bench, mentally practicing free throw shooting, parents can mentally practice how they are going to respond the next time the kids bicker, grab, hit, or whatever other issues might come up. This is a kind of self-analysis that is incredibly useful and practical.
Those people who come to unschooling and dive in head first --- probably need to be more self-analytical. I often have the urge to say, "Stop and think," to them. Yes, I am a proponent of unschooling, but don't just do it - it is not something to just "do." You need to think about it and about how to do it in a way that will suit your family, your lifestyle, your personalities, etc. In other words, be more self-analytical.
-pam
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<"What this touched on for me is my struggle with anxiety, and how deeply it affects my parenting. I am working with a counsellor in Emotion Focus Therapy who said that from the people she's met with anxiety issues, it seems to be about being/feeling completely alone. What she said rang true for me. I grew up with a young, absent (emotionally, mentally, physically), overwhelmed single mother. I faced the big scary world alone. ">>>>
IF it is working for you great! But my anxiety has nothing to do with feeling alone or having had a childhood like yours. I simply get anxious with mostly money issues , usually. Sometimes things like my brother being in coma and almost dead made me anxious for a few days. But I think most people would feel something . ( By the way he is at home doing great ). I am saying that because it sounds like a big generalization. My parents were always there for me. They had their issues but they were pretty great and super supportive.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I have seen many parents that decide to parent in a way as a reaction for the way they were parented. They usually decide to be the total opposite of what they had growing up. That can be great in many ways but I think that one need to think and analyze it and not just simply do it as a reaction . Parenting as a reaction to how they were parented does not sound a very well thought thing to do.
I have a friend who also grew up with absent and neglectful parents, she is very controlling of her children. I think she has somehow gotten a little better since she started homeschooling but it used to be that she even locked the food in her pantry.
She thinks that giving the child any choice is bad as they will not learn the "right " choice so she makes them all, but that is because she was neglected and her parents were never there to support and guide her. She parents as a reaction to how she was parented.
I am able to see what I think my parents did well and what I think it could have been done better or in a different way. But I can see the good and the not so good in the way I was parented. I know WHY I am doing like this or that, and that takes analyzing ideas and thinking about them.
Sure it may be that after a lot of thinking you still want to do it the opposite of your parents but you will know why. You will know your priorities and what you consider successful. I think it is very important to know what your priorities as a parent are. How can one move towards something if they do not know what it is they want ?
What means for them to be doing it right?
For some being a good parent is having clean looking kids and home that eat they healthy food at certain times and go to bed by 8PM and get good grades in school.
When I came to unschooling and started reading I had some ideas of what I wanted. They have changed and evolved and gotten a lot more clear as I started to understand more and deschool myself more.
Well anyways! Got to go play Playmobil with Gigi! That is important to me specially today to go connect with her as I have been a little " don;t touch me" today. Took a deep breath. Cleaned up the play room of the hundreds of My Little Ponies she has to get ready for a HUGe container of Playmobil to be dumped and played on the floor!!!!And hug and kiss her tons!!!
Alex Polikowsky
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:19 AM, mairi.sasaki@... wrote:
Practicing being imperfect was really important for my personal development. Seems this might help you too, Mairi, and probably lots of others. I very consciously chose to do some things that I was very obviously not very good at. Kids will usually give you lots of opportunities for that. Play their video games, for example, and let them watch you. (My inclinations was to play a whole bunch when they weren't home so that I'd be at least "decent" at it before anybody else was watching. (What a word - "decent" - right?)
When the kids ice skated, I ice skated even though I was terrible at it. I bowled. Very badly. I took every opportunity to NOT be good at things and to have fun not being good at them. My perfectionism slowly dissipated and I don't suffer from it at all any more. I do remember, still, what it was like to worry about it, though.
I appreciate the things I am good at, now. But I no longer feel any negativity about not being perfect.
-pam
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> I am at the beginning of my unschooling journey. My tendency is to want to work really hard and do it all right, right now. Done. But of course, it doesn't work that way. My drive for perfection in unschooling temporarily replaces my anxiety, taking me away from my children, away from now. The false path I am walking inevitably leads me further away from where I want to be. Overthinking, stress, failure, self-criticism, crisis, panic, fear. Until I can find my way back to imperfection, patience, breathing, believing, trusting, being, now. Peace. Finding and staying for as long as possible in that sweetspot of presence, joy, confidence, is currently my greatest challenge as an unschooling parent. But I am soooo grateful for what unschooling has already given me; it has been infinite even though I've only scratched the surface.*****
Practicing being imperfect was really important for my personal development. Seems this might help you too, Mairi, and probably lots of others. I very consciously chose to do some things that I was very obviously not very good at. Kids will usually give you lots of opportunities for that. Play their video games, for example, and let them watch you. (My inclinations was to play a whole bunch when they weren't home so that I'd be at least "decent" at it before anybody else was watching. (What a word - "decent" - right?)
When the kids ice skated, I ice skated even though I was terrible at it. I bowled. Very badly. I took every opportunity to NOT be good at things and to have fun not being good at them. My perfectionism slowly dissipated and I don't suffer from it at all any more. I do remember, still, what it was like to worry about it, though.
I appreciate the things I am good at, now. But I no longer feel any negativity about not being perfect.
-pam
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Jenny Cyphers
*** I think she has somehow gotten a little better since she started homeschooling but it used to be that she even locked the food in her pantry.
She thinks that giving the child any choice is bad as they will not learn the "right " choice so she makes them all, but that is because she was neglected and her parents were never there to support and guide her. She parents as a reaction to how she was parented.***
That's the problem with reactive parenting; It isn't focusing on problem solving or goals or solutions, except for the one that has come up as a reaction. Only one solution, and not a very well thought out one, surfaces, ignoring a dozen or more choices in that moment that might work better and have more peace and happiness.
That need to control others is so big for those that grew up reacting to their world, when their world wasn't very healthy. If only we could control the world around us to the extent that everything was just the way we wanted it to be! Since it doesn't work, one could easily go a bit crazy trying. Crazy doesn't lend itself well to unschooling! It damages trust between parent and child!
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She thinks that giving the child any choice is bad as they will not learn the "right " choice so she makes them all, but that is because she was neglected and her parents were never there to support and guide her. She parents as a reaction to how she was parented.***
That's the problem with reactive parenting; It isn't focusing on problem solving or goals or solutions, except for the one that has come up as a reaction. Only one solution, and not a very well thought out one, surfaces, ignoring a dozen or more choices in that moment that might work better and have more peace and happiness.
That need to control others is so big for those that grew up reacting to their world, when their world wasn't very healthy. If only we could control the world around us to the extent that everything was just the way we wanted it to be! Since it doesn't work, one could easily go a bit crazy trying. Crazy doesn't lend itself well to unschooling! It damages trust between parent and child!
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Jenny Cyphers
***How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?***
I think self awareness is really important for unschooling. It's great to be peaceful and happy, but really great when a person is aware of what they are feeling and reacting to,.even if that is a state of agitation. Being able to recognize where you are emotionally can help you move to a different and better emotional state. There is little more frustrating than dealing with another person who not only can't find a way to be happy and peaceful, but doesn't even notice that they aren't.
One common factor among the teens that end up at our house, is this inability to recognize their own emotional state beyond reacting. It can be problematic when you want to address an issue logically and reach a consensus or a goal to solve an issue. If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. My younger daughter still gets stuck, but is maturing in a way that I know she's getting better with it. My oldest is really self aware and gets frustrated dealing with others that just aren't.
I wish more parents would help their kids with that. I wish more kids weren't left to react as their only defense mechanism. I think too many people reach adulthood without self awareness skills.
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I think self awareness is really important for unschooling. It's great to be peaceful and happy, but really great when a person is aware of what they are feeling and reacting to,.even if that is a state of agitation. Being able to recognize where you are emotionally can help you move to a different and better emotional state. There is little more frustrating than dealing with another person who not only can't find a way to be happy and peaceful, but doesn't even notice that they aren't.
One common factor among the teens that end up at our house, is this inability to recognize their own emotional state beyond reacting. It can be problematic when you want to address an issue logically and reach a consensus or a goal to solve an issue. If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. My younger daughter still gets stuck, but is maturing in a way that I know she's getting better with it. My oldest is really self aware and gets frustrated dealing with others that just aren't.
I wish more parents would help their kids with that. I wish more kids weren't left to react as their only defense mechanism. I think too many people reach adulthood without self awareness skills.
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Sandra Dodd
-=-I do not think my husband is doing it to the extent that we are and I think there are many people who are not at all self-analytical.
When I say self-analytical, I mean that there is a part of myself that is standing aside, watching me, and thinking about why I'm choosing what I am choosing. -=-
Howard Gardner considers "intrapersonal intelligence" as one of the ways of being in and seeing the world
I think maybe people like Cyrus and Keith (Pam's husband and mine) could have plenty of that but it's possibly not filtered through verbal/analytical. I, too, have a running view and commentary with all kinds of self-analysis. I don't think that means I know more about myself than Keith does. It might be that I'm less suave and calm about it. More "self-conscious" in the nervous way. :-)
Or maybe Keith doesn't care and I really do.
Maybe my intrapersonal engine runs more noisily than his does.
Sandra
When I say self-analytical, I mean that there is a part of myself that is standing aside, watching me, and thinking about why I'm choosing what I am choosing. -=-
Howard Gardner considers "intrapersonal intelligence" as one of the ways of being in and seeing the world
I think maybe people like Cyrus and Keith (Pam's husband and mine) could have plenty of that but it's possibly not filtered through verbal/analytical. I, too, have a running view and commentary with all kinds of self-analysis. I don't think that means I know more about myself than Keith does. It might be that I'm less suave and calm about it. More "self-conscious" in the nervous way. :-)
Or maybe Keith doesn't care and I really do.
Maybe my intrapersonal engine runs more noisily than his does.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-That's the problem with reactive parenting; It isn't focusing on problem solving or goals or solutions, except for the one that has come up as a reaction. Only one solution, and not a very well thought out one, surfaces, ignoring a dozen or more choices in that moment that might work better and have more peace and happiness.-=-
Yes. One extreme to the other passes right over the happy middle.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
That's what that's about. :-)
-=- I think it is very important to know what your priorities as a parent are. How can one move towards something if they do not know what it is they want ?
What means for them to be doing it right? -=-
"Better" should be the goal, I think. "Better" of two choices, rather than "doing it right."
Better can lead to right, but aiming for "right" can cause people to give up in dismay. It can cause them to fall into the "...discontent, shame..." range.
-=-Sandra often has said that one way to become a better parent is to always have at least two options in mind and choose the better one. This was a really great little piece of advice that I easily took to heart and it had profound influences on my parenting and on my life, in general. I think it was intended to get people to think of at least one other option, to get out of being stuck in a rut of how they respond to children and their problems, issues, and needs.-=-
It does serve that purpose, but it was originally intended to help people move from where they are to a distant goal that seems unattainable. Incremental, sensible, thoughtful baby steps. If people make thoughtful choices, they start to see their rejected options as rejects, as places not to go, as choices not to consider at all in the future, and so they're unlikely to slip back into bad habits, into (literally, in their own minds, tried and truly) bad choices.
Sandra
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Yes. One extreme to the other passes right over the happy middle.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
That's what that's about. :-)
-=- I think it is very important to know what your priorities as a parent are. How can one move towards something if they do not know what it is they want ?
What means for them to be doing it right? -=-
"Better" should be the goal, I think. "Better" of two choices, rather than "doing it right."
Better can lead to right, but aiming for "right" can cause people to give up in dismay. It can cause them to fall into the "...discontent, shame..." range.
-=-Sandra often has said that one way to become a better parent is to always have at least two options in mind and choose the better one. This was a really great little piece of advice that I easily took to heart and it had profound influences on my parenting and on my life, in general. I think it was intended to get people to think of at least one other option, to get out of being stuck in a rut of how they respond to children and their problems, issues, and needs.-=-
It does serve that purpose, but it was originally intended to help people move from where they are to a distant goal that seems unattainable. Incremental, sensible, thoughtful baby steps. If people make thoughtful choices, they start to see their rejected options as rejects, as places not to go, as choices not to consider at all in the future, and so they're unlikely to slip back into bad habits, into (literally, in their own minds, tried and truly) bad choices.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
All true... but...
-=-If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
-=-I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. -=-
If Gardner is right (and I've never seen any clues leading me to think he's not), then some people have it ("it" being self-knowledge) and some people don't. Some people who have it have a little, and some have lots. http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
I'm not as good with money as Keith is. That's an understatement. I spend it; he saves it. He understands mortgages and car loans and I hear "blah blah principle blah blah interest." If it weren't for Keith, I might be homeless and walking. I like Keith.
If the statements above were re-written to be about math, or about spelling and writing, or about sports/dance/yoga...
-=-If one person is too busy [stumbling along], they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the [finances/writing/physical activity], other than literally or figuratively [stumble horribly].
-=-I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be [whatever it is] and help them be calm so that they can be [that way too]. -=-
... I would think genetics play a greater role than modelling or pressure.
So I was pretty happy to see what Deb brought, about this study/model:
-=-Sonja Lyubomirsky is a psychology professor who wrote a book called The How of
Happiness. (which I have not read) Its claim, in the wide field of self
help books, is that the strategies it offers are backed by scientific
research. The book claims fifty percent of a person�s happiness or
unhappiness is determined by genetics, ten percent by life circumstances and
the remaining forty percent is within our control. I�m pretty sure if you�re
malnourished, living in a refugee camp in Kenya, your life circumstances are
contributing more than ten percent to your level of unhappiness. But if
forty percent is within the control of the average unschooling parent then
understanding how that fifty percent is influencing you seems like a good
idea.-=-
Sandra
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-=-If one person is too busy reacting to their environment, they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the problem they are reacting to, other than literally or figuratively scream and or run away.
-=-I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be self aware and help them be calm so that they can be self aware. -=-
If Gardner is right (and I've never seen any clues leading me to think he's not), then some people have it ("it" being self-knowledge) and some people don't. Some people who have it have a little, and some have lots. http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
I'm not as good with money as Keith is. That's an understatement. I spend it; he saves it. He understands mortgages and car loans and I hear "blah blah principle blah blah interest." If it weren't for Keith, I might be homeless and walking. I like Keith.
If the statements above were re-written to be about math, or about spelling and writing, or about sports/dance/yoga...
-=-If one person is too busy [stumbling along], they absolutely can't see or reach beyond that to DO anything about the [finances/writing/physical activity], other than literally or figuratively [stumble horribly].
-=-I've seen that create problems in relationships, work, and school. It's a pattern of behavior that leads to more frustration and agitation, not less. I don't want that sort of life for my own kids, so I work hard to be [whatever it is] and help them be calm so that they can be [that way too]. -=-
... I would think genetics play a greater role than modelling or pressure.
So I was pretty happy to see what Deb brought, about this study/model:
-=-Sonja Lyubomirsky is a psychology professor who wrote a book called The How of
Happiness. (which I have not read) Its claim, in the wide field of self
help books, is that the strategies it offers are backed by scientific
research. The book claims fifty percent of a person�s happiness or
unhappiness is determined by genetics, ten percent by life circumstances and
the remaining forty percent is within our control. I�m pretty sure if you�re
malnourished, living in a refugee camp in Kenya, your life circumstances are
contributing more than ten percent to your level of unhappiness. But if
forty percent is within the control of the average unschooling parent then
understanding how that fifty percent is influencing you seems like a good
idea.-=-
Sandra
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 21, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Yes, what I meant was that I don't think my husband has that analytical voice going all the time, not that he is completely non-self-analytical. I think his self-analyticalness is more purposeful and conscious - he can turn it off and on, while mine is always on and usually at a pretty high volume.
-pam
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> -=-I do not think my husband is doing it to the extent that we are and I think there are many people who are not at all self-analytical.*******
>
> When I say self-analytical, I mean that there is a part of myself that is standing aside, watching me, and thinking about why I'm choosing what I am choosing. -=-
>
> Howard Gardner considers "intrapersonal intelligence" as one of the ways of being in and seeing the world
> I think maybe people like Cyrus and Keith (Pam's husband and mine) could have plenty of that but it's possibly not filtered through verbal/analytical. I, too, have a running view and commentary with all kinds of self-analysis. I don't think that means I know more about myself than Keith does. It might be that I'm less suave and calm about it. More "self-conscious" in the nervous way. :-)
>
> Or maybe Keith doesn't care and I really do.
>
> Maybe my intrapersonal engine runs more noisily than his does.
Yes, what I meant was that I don't think my husband has that analytical voice going all the time, not that he is completely non-self-analytical. I think his self-analyticalness is more purposeful and conscious - he can turn it off and on, while mine is always on and usually at a pretty high volume.
-pam
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emstrength3
> ==================================
>
> So - I've moved beyond that from-the-outside critical voice in my head. Now it is really my own voice I hear. And my own voice is more thoughtful, analytical, and kind. But, yes, it is there, pretty much nonstop. I am ALWAYS considering why I am doing something - wondering what is motivating me, and checking in on myself and how I am feeling about my choices.
>
> Sometimes I wish I wasn't quite so much this way. Sometimes I want to just "be" and not be aware of being. Like a happy dog or cat, perhaps.
I can relate to this. A few weeks ago when I posted a whiny spiel about how I've tried for years to change and made so much progress, but then I compare it to my ideal and feel like I still have so far to go.... this is what I was doing a poor job of expressing.
I think about and analyze everything and it is a good thing to be thoughtful. But sometimes I wish I could just BE that way without thinking so hard about it. I wish my knee-jerk reaction was kindness. My husband is not analytical of himself AT ALL and he had a worse childhood than I did, but he still is able to just do the kinder thing automatically more often than I do. He says "If I learned one thing from my childhood it's what NOT to do, so even if I don't know what to do, I just don't do what I know not to."
As far as biochemisty goes, that definitely is a big factor for me. I started taking calcium and magnesium recently. I didn't see results until I took 4 times the highest recommended amount. Then I forgot it for a few days and WOW the difference it made! Without it I felt so much more irritable and just wanted to rant and rave about everything, which used to be my normal state of mind. I had made great strides consciously choosing not to be that way, but taking the cal/mag really helped me not have to think about it and try so hard to succeed in just BEing a nicer person.
I think part of it is habit too. I read something about neuro-pathways... don't ask me to explain the science well, but basically when you do the same thing over and over or feel the say way over and over, it creates a path in your brain that you tend to continue to follow. So for a person whose childhood left them often feeling angry, anger becomes the most easily accessed pathway in the brain. It becomes the freeway, while the other pathways are like forest trails, overgrown with brush and weeds. In order to take a different path, you have to clear the obstacles, it's hard and uncomfortable and doesn't feel NORMAL even though happiness or joy should feel good.
Last night my husband and I were hanging out and talking and laughing and suddenly I wanted to bolt out of the room. It was scary, it was too close. I had to remind myself that what I was feeling was joy and happiness and good. I had to push past that barrier and consciously choose to enjoy being with him and relax into allowing myself to feel comfortable with that.
Emily
emstrength3
=======================
It's a good thing I didn't read that and believe it 4 or 5 years ago. I would have said "Oh, I guess I'm just don't have it," and as Jenny said, literally or figuratively ran away. There was a crossroads point where I could have decided that I just don't have what it takes to be a good mom, that my husband was far more nurturing than me, and he would have continued to stay at home with our infant daughter while I worked 60 hours a week. I'm not staying dads shouldn't stay home or moms shouldn't work, but at that point my reasons would have been to escape having real relationships with them. In fact, there was a point before that when I could have given my daughter up for adoption because she was a surprise pregnancy and I was pretty sure I'd be a terrible mother. And a point before that when I swore I would never get married.
But I didn't believe that people just have "it" or they don't. I believed that I could grow and change and learn. Some people have a natural, genetic tendency towards being better at certain things, but I believe we can all learn and improve our weak areas.
Emily
> If Gardner is right (and I've never seen any clues leading me to think he's not), then some people have it ("it" being self-knowledge) and some people don't. Some people who have it have a little, and some have lots. http://sandradodd.com/intelligences=======================
It's a good thing I didn't read that and believe it 4 or 5 years ago. I would have said "Oh, I guess I'm just don't have it," and as Jenny said, literally or figuratively ran away. There was a crossroads point where I could have decided that I just don't have what it takes to be a good mom, that my husband was far more nurturing than me, and he would have continued to stay at home with our infant daughter while I worked 60 hours a week. I'm not staying dads shouldn't stay home or moms shouldn't work, but at that point my reasons would have been to escape having real relationships with them. In fact, there was a point before that when I could have given my daughter up for adoption because she was a surprise pregnancy and I was pretty sure I'd be a terrible mother. And a point before that when I swore I would never get married.
But I didn't believe that people just have "it" or they don't. I believed that I could grow and change and learn. Some people have a natural, genetic tendency towards being better at certain things, but I believe we can all learn and improve our weak areas.
Emily
Sarah
My husband has recently been put on beta blockers due to a possible genetic condition that can affect the heart. Dealing with the initial side effects he commented that when his phone wouldn't work he felt like throwing it at the wall... And he'd never felt like that before in his life.
I was very struck by this, because I feel some variation of that several times every day. I don't act on it, but I feel that flash of frustration and that destructive urge- I've jut learnt to handle it. It's just funny that he'd never felt that before...
I think there's a real inbuilt component to how we deal with the world, and unschooling. My husband's calm acceptance of our children is natural to him, mine is learnt.
Sarah
I was very struck by this, because I feel some variation of that several times every day. I don't act on it, but I feel that flash of frustration and that destructive urge- I've jut learnt to handle it. It's just funny that he'd never felt that before...
I think there's a real inbuilt component to how we deal with the world, and unschooling. My husband's calm acceptance of our children is natural to him, mine is learnt.
Sarah
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I want to think about the range of emotions about how we decide how we feel about ourself overall or in individual moments, and relate that to being an unschooling parent.
>
> pride, self-satisfaction, contentment, discontent, shame
>
> It's partly just a fleeting early-morning thought, but it seemed worth looking at a little more.
>
> How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
>
> Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
>
> Sandra
>
Jenny Cyphers
***If Gardner is right (and I've never seen any clues leading me to think he's not), then some people have it ("it" being self-knowledge) and some people don't. Some people who have it have a little, and some have lots.***
I was thinking about that as I wrote. Chamille definitely has it! Margaux works at it for sure! After reading about the badass princesses, I went and read a little thing on that same site about relationships. It applies here. http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-pieces-relationship-advice-movies-need-to-stop-giving/
The first 2 pieces are about people who have lived in reactionary mode so long they don't know how to be with people and deal with others. Margaux could have grown up in such a way that she might have become one of those, but she's not. She gets the help and time to learn how to hone in on those skills that may not come as natural to her as they do for Chamille.
There is another interesting personality assessment that I like http://similarminds.com/test.html
What I like about it, is that you can look up each individual types and each type is then put on a scale of 1- healthy and functional to 9- very unhealthy and dysfunctional. It seems accurate to me. http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
While I won't place a huge emphasis on assessing personalities, it can be interesting to see where you might be and see on a scale of 1-9 how any one person can be healthy or dysfunctional and how various qualities in a person can be a positive aspect of themselves or be negative. If one is living in reactionary mode and doesn't at all self reflect, it might look like that person is living in the dysfunctional realm of what their, otherwise normal, human traits could lead them, including the ability to self reflect.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was thinking about that as I wrote. Chamille definitely has it! Margaux works at it for sure! After reading about the badass princesses, I went and read a little thing on that same site about relationships. It applies here. http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-pieces-relationship-advice-movies-need-to-stop-giving/
The first 2 pieces are about people who have lived in reactionary mode so long they don't know how to be with people and deal with others. Margaux could have grown up in such a way that she might have become one of those, but she's not. She gets the help and time to learn how to hone in on those skills that may not come as natural to her as they do for Chamille.
There is another interesting personality assessment that I like http://similarminds.com/test.html
What I like about it, is that you can look up each individual types and each type is then put on a scale of 1- healthy and functional to 9- very unhealthy and dysfunctional. It seems accurate to me. http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
While I won't place a huge emphasis on assessing personalities, it can be interesting to see where you might be and see on a scale of 1-9 how any one person can be healthy or dysfunctional and how various qualities in a person can be a positive aspect of themselves or be negative. If one is living in reactionary mode and doesn't at all self reflect, it might look like that person is living in the dysfunctional realm of what their, otherwise normal, human traits could lead them, including the ability to self reflect.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cara Barlow
Keeping myself on an even keel is vital to my ability to do a good job as an
unschooling parent, so it's something I'm always monitoring.
I'm 48 years old. As I've gotten older it's been easier for me to be
content, upbeat and happy. It may be because I have more life experience,
but I suspect it's also biochemistry.
Handling my emotions has definitely gotten easier. We still have money
crunches, my husband and I still do things that bug each other and there's
still occasional work or family drama, but it doesn't rock my boat like it
used to. Unschooling has helped me reach this point - when something
happens, I know that I can choose how I react, and when I have a knee-jerk
reaction that I regret, I'm able to recognize that and more forward to amend
the situation.
I've also learned to watch for warning signs that I need to take care of
myself. If mail and paperwork starts piling up, if the house gets unusually
messy, if I misplace my keys or my appointment book - those are signals to
me that I need to take some time to center myself. My slide downhill is
often so gradual that I don't notice it until I see one of my known warning
signs <g>.
And when I'm scattered or discontented, I don't let myself spend money. I've
learned the hard way that if I'm going to do something foolish money-wise,
it's when I'm distracted and vaguely unhappy.
When I notice that I need to pull myself together, I make time to stay at
home and to do slow things with my daughters, like watch a movie or make
cookies and hang out. Another thing that really helps me is cleaning my
house. I love our home and I love that my husband and daughters love our
home. It always makes me feel good to make it clean and welcoming.
Being self-aware is a big part of being an unschooling parent.
Cara B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling parent, so it's something I'm always monitoring.
I'm 48 years old. As I've gotten older it's been easier for me to be
content, upbeat and happy. It may be because I have more life experience,
but I suspect it's also biochemistry.
Handling my emotions has definitely gotten easier. We still have money
crunches, my husband and I still do things that bug each other and there's
still occasional work or family drama, but it doesn't rock my boat like it
used to. Unschooling has helped me reach this point - when something
happens, I know that I can choose how I react, and when I have a knee-jerk
reaction that I regret, I'm able to recognize that and more forward to amend
the situation.
I've also learned to watch for warning signs that I need to take care of
myself. If mail and paperwork starts piling up, if the house gets unusually
messy, if I misplace my keys or my appointment book - those are signals to
me that I need to take some time to center myself. My slide downhill is
often so gradual that I don't notice it until I see one of my known warning
signs <g>.
And when I'm scattered or discontented, I don't let myself spend money. I've
learned the hard way that if I'm going to do something foolish money-wise,
it's when I'm distracted and vaguely unhappy.
When I notice that I need to pull myself together, I make time to stay at
home and to do slow things with my daughters, like watch a movie or make
cookies and hang out. Another thing that really helps me is cleaning my
house. I love our home and I love that my husband and daughters love our
home. It always makes me feel good to make it clean and welcoming.
Being self-aware is a big part of being an unschooling parent.
Cara B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's a good thing I didn't read that and believe it 4 or 5 years ago.-=-
I'm unwilling to hide what's true to help people believe they can change. I hope you aren't suggesting we should pretend.
I can match pitches well, remember tunes, and harmonize. I wouldn't begin to pretend that just anyone can do that, and pretend to teach them and have them "fail." Not everyone can do it. Not everyone is athletic or graceful. Some really, naturally are, from early childhood.
-=-But I didn't believe that people just have "it" or they don't. I believed that I could grow and change and learn. Some people have a natural, genetic tendency towards being better at certain things, but I believe we can all learn and improve our weak areas. -=-
For every genius at any intelligence there are some who are as lacking in it as can be.
You can "believe" differently, but that won't change it. Most people are somewhere in the middle of the range. Very few people will be stunning genius-level at those things. Everyone can improve, or learn bypass tricks or ways to compensate for where they're not fully swift. I have tricks about numbers. I'm not likely to get better with that, but I can compensate by learning how to keep certain kinds of notes and to get help from others when I need it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm unwilling to hide what's true to help people believe they can change. I hope you aren't suggesting we should pretend.
I can match pitches well, remember tunes, and harmonize. I wouldn't begin to pretend that just anyone can do that, and pretend to teach them and have them "fail." Not everyone can do it. Not everyone is athletic or graceful. Some really, naturally are, from early childhood.
-=-But I didn't believe that people just have "it" or they don't. I believed that I could grow and change and learn. Some people have a natural, genetic tendency towards being better at certain things, but I believe we can all learn and improve our weak areas. -=-
For every genius at any intelligence there are some who are as lacking in it as can be.
You can "believe" differently, but that won't change it. Most people are somewhere in the middle of the range. Very few people will be stunning genius-level at those things. Everyone can improve, or learn bypass tricks or ways to compensate for where they're not fully swift. I have tricks about numbers. I'm not likely to get better with that, but I can compensate by learning how to keep certain kinds of notes and to get help from others when I need it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
> Practicing being imperfect was really important for my personal development.I have always been okay with making mistakes privately, but painfully uncomfortable doing so publicly. When my son was 3, I realized I was going to have to work through this. I decided to join a weekly West African drum circle led by a fantastic drummer from Nigeria who had been drumming since he was a boy.
Each class was over 2 hours of drumming. I did not have any music experience. Aloja told me if I could move, I could drum. I believed him.
For the first while, almost every mistake I made caused me to recoil - pulling my hands back, wincing, blushing and sweating. Finally, one afternoon, Aloja, in front of everyone, yet gently, stopped the drumming to tell me I did not need to make my mistakes such a public spectacle. I could simply pause, note them privately, and move on, trying to get it better next time. He told me that this act of processing my drumming mistakes should be so fluid that nobody would notice, or (at least) nobody would be negatively affected by my actions.
That advice was profound, and had a positive influence on so much more than my drumming practices.
[email protected]
<< Practicing being imperfect was really important for my personal development. Seems this might help you too, Mairi, and probably lots of others. >>
This strikes me as a really great suggestion. Thank you, Pam.
This strikes me as a really great suggestion. Thank you, Pam.
shirarocklin
Pam Wrote:
When the kids ice skated, I ice skated even though I was terrible at it. I bowled. Very badly. I took every opportunity to NOT be good at things and to have fun not being good at them. My perfectionism slowly dissipated and I don't suffer from it at all any more. I do remember, still, what it was like to worry about it, though.
I appreciate the things I am good at, now. But I no longer feel any negativity about not being perfect.
--------------------
I really enjoyed reading this. I was also a perfectionist, and greatly disappointed with myself as a teenager for not being GREAT at any thing. In university, when trying to get around this part of myself, I took a course with a goal to just do ok, and not care - and I did. I was very proud of that C. And after having children, and finding it impossible to do anything really well anymore, I slowly realized that I might not have been GREAT at anything as a teenager, but I was certainly very good at many many different things, and that's a sort of talent of itself. And I'm still like this, dabbling here and there in various interests, never long enough to become a real expert at it. I really love being able to take something up without expecting that I need to become great at it. I can just enjoy learning something new, for as long as my interest is there.
Shira
When the kids ice skated, I ice skated even though I was terrible at it. I bowled. Very badly. I took every opportunity to NOT be good at things and to have fun not being good at them. My perfectionism slowly dissipated and I don't suffer from it at all any more. I do remember, still, what it was like to worry about it, though.
I appreciate the things I am good at, now. But I no longer feel any negativity about not being perfect.
--------------------
I really enjoyed reading this. I was also a perfectionist, and greatly disappointed with myself as a teenager for not being GREAT at any thing. In university, when trying to get around this part of myself, I took a course with a goal to just do ok, and not care - and I did. I was very proud of that C. And after having children, and finding it impossible to do anything really well anymore, I slowly realized that I might not have been GREAT at anything as a teenager, but I was certainly very good at many many different things, and that's a sort of talent of itself. And I'm still like this, dabbling here and there in various interests, never long enough to become a real expert at it. I really love being able to take something up without expecting that I need to become great at it. I can just enjoy learning something new, for as long as my interest is there.
Shira
DaBreeze21
I can totally relate to this. I have always been a thinker and an analyzer so when I started reading about unschooling almost 4 years ago now it REALLY got my wheels turning - and they pretty much didn't stop! I sometimes just want to turn my brain off!
I just recently read some of Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now" and it has been really helpful for me in this area. I highly recommend it. I've realized how much of my time was being spent thinking about things in the past (which I can't do anything about) or future (which will probably never happen)and in doing this I am very often missing out on the present moment! (Doesn't Sandra have a quote about this, one leg in the past, one in the future and pissing all over the present? or something like that...) I mean I already knew that before and it is kind of like, "duh" once you realize it but that wasn't helping me turn my brain off!
But for whatever reason this book and the way he worded things helped me a lot. Particularly that we should use our minds (thinking) as a tool and not the other way around (our minds using us). I have been able to really stop thinking and just BE a lot more lately. That doesn't mean that I'm not thinking and trying to make good choices, it just means that I'm not thinking and analyzing ALL THE TIME. It really has helped me feel more peaceful on a daily basis.
All that being said, I don't regret all the thinking and analyzing I've done up till now, I just value being more in control of the process.
Susan
I just recently read some of Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now" and it has been really helpful for me in this area. I highly recommend it. I've realized how much of my time was being spent thinking about things in the past (which I can't do anything about) or future (which will probably never happen)and in doing this I am very often missing out on the present moment! (Doesn't Sandra have a quote about this, one leg in the past, one in the future and pissing all over the present? or something like that...) I mean I already knew that before and it is kind of like, "duh" once you realize it but that wasn't helping me turn my brain off!
But for whatever reason this book and the way he worded things helped me a lot. Particularly that we should use our minds (thinking) as a tool and not the other way around (our minds using us). I have been able to really stop thinking and just BE a lot more lately. That doesn't mean that I'm not thinking and trying to make good choices, it just means that I'm not thinking and analyzing ALL THE TIME. It really has helped me feel more peaceful on a daily basis.
All that being said, I don't regret all the thinking and analyzing I've done up till now, I just value being more in control of the process.
Susan
> >>
> > How self-analytical should we be? Or are those things to some degree a biochemical state? Peace vs. agitation?
> >
> > Any ideas or anecdotes are welcome.
> <<<
>
> I always wonder how self-analytical others are -- I feel like I am examining myself, my behavior, my thoughts, my feelings nonstop. I think my daughters are, too. I do not think my husband is doing it to the extent that we are and I think there are many people who are not at all self-analytical.
>
Sandra Dodd
My post in this topic that just showed up time-stamped 3:36 a.m. November 3 was mailed: October 21, 2011 4:24:07 PM MDT
I have no idea why yahoogroups was hoarding some of our posts.
I still believe it, but I'm sorry it seemed I ignored a post for a week and a half.
-=-It's a good thing I didn't read that and believe it 4 or 5 years ago.-=-
I'm unwilling to hide what's true to help people believe they can change. I hope you aren't suggesting we should pretend.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have no idea why yahoogroups was hoarding some of our posts.
I still believe it, but I'm sorry it seemed I ignored a post for a week and a half.
-=-It's a good thing I didn't read that and believe it 4 or 5 years ago.-=-
I'm unwilling to hide what's true to help people believe they can change. I hope you aren't suggesting we should pretend.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patricia Platt
--> -=-But I didn't believe that people just have "it" or they don't. I believed that I could grow and change and learn. Some people have a natural, genetic tendency towards being better at certain things, but I believe we can all learn and improve our weak areas. -=-
"The Strengths Book" lists many strengths that I'd never thought of before. It also makes the point that doing work that involves our innate strengths *energizes* us, whereas doing work that requires us to use our weaknesses drains us. So, while we *can* learn to do work that requires us to leverage our weaknesses, and we *can* even be really good at it, "learned behaviours" [the term used in the book] are de-energizing and so should be minimized. Should be minimized if we are to be happy, whole, maximally effective human beings, that is.
Reading that book gave me a new appreciation for and understanding of my son, my husband, and myself. It also helped me to realize how different my son is from me, and how his strengths are a blend of mine, my husband's, and ... neither of the above: he is his own person. Rather than making him feel bad for being what he's not, an awareness of his strengths has helped me to appreciate and nurture what he *is.*
>Pat Ferenga recommended at an unschooling conference -- and I recommend here -- "The Strengths Book." It's about US$18 on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Strengths-Book-Confident-Successful-Relationships/dp/1906366098/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320332446&sr=1-1. I read it when we were first starting to unschool; it helped me to feel more confident about our decision.
> For every genius at any intelligence there are some who are as lacking in it as can be.
> You can "believe" differently, but that won't change it. Most people are somewhere in the middle of the range. Very few people will be stunning genius-level at those things. Everyone can improve, or learn bypass tricks or ways to compensate for where they're not fully swift. I have tricks about numbers. I'm not likely to get better with that, but I can compensate by learning how to keep certain kinds of notes and to get help from others when I need it.<--
"The Strengths Book" lists many strengths that I'd never thought of before. It also makes the point that doing work that involves our innate strengths *energizes* us, whereas doing work that requires us to use our weaknesses drains us. So, while we *can* learn to do work that requires us to leverage our weaknesses, and we *can* even be really good at it, "learned behaviours" [the term used in the book] are de-energizing and so should be minimized. Should be minimized if we are to be happy, whole, maximally effective human beings, that is.
Reading that book gave me a new appreciation for and understanding of my son, my husband, and myself. It also helped me to realize how different my son is from me, and how his strengths are a blend of mine, my husband's, and ... neither of the above: he is his own person. Rather than making him feel bad for being what he's not, an awareness of his strengths has helped me to appreciate and nurture what he *is.*