Sword Play and Neighbors
hmbpie
When the weather is not to hot or not to cold the kids who live on our cul de sac go outside and play. Most of the play is with swords and guns and they fight an imaginary bad guy and make up complex stories to go along with what they are playing that day. All of the swords and guns come from our house.
We just got new neighbors and two of their three kids beat each other with the swords in anger. One is 8 or 9 and the other is probably about 5. Today when I went out to say hi, the mom of the fighting siblings told me, with foot tapping quickly that she can't stand swords because her kids beat each other with them. Both the mom and the dad today kept telling the kids, "OK only two more minutes of sword play then you have to change it." They didn't try to enforce what they were telling the kids to do. Then the kids asked me if I would be The Boss (which was a first) and the mom went inside so that was the end of the conversation. I don't think tonight will be the end of the discussion and I am looking for some words of wisdom here.
We just got new neighbors and two of their three kids beat each other with the swords in anger. One is 8 or 9 and the other is probably about 5. Today when I went out to say hi, the mom of the fighting siblings told me, with foot tapping quickly that she can't stand swords because her kids beat each other with them. Both the mom and the dad today kept telling the kids, "OK only two more minutes of sword play then you have to change it." They didn't try to enforce what they were telling the kids to do. Then the kids asked me if I would be The Boss (which was a first) and the mom went inside so that was the end of the conversation. I don't think tonight will be the end of the discussion and I am looking for some words of wisdom here.
Sandra Dodd
-=-We just got new neighbors and two of their three kids beat each other with the swords in anger. One is 8 or 9 and the other is probably about 5. Today when I went out to say hi, -=-
Don't leave the swords out there without you or your husband being present. You make the rules. Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
Don't just occasionally go out and say hi. Be there more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't leave the swords out there without you or your husband being present. You make the rules. Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
Don't just occasionally go out and say hi. Be there more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
iksnolbay67
Our family has a LOT of experience using foam swords and Nerf blasters. We've had huge battles inside our house & out, plus my kids attended a sword fighting school & camp (I worked there, too). Rule #1: No head shots - that means anything from the top of the shoulders up. Rule #2: Never hit in anger. (There are more that are necessary for large groups of kids in a class/camp setting but I don't think they need to be listed here.)
Anyone, no matter the age (we have adult classes and mixed-age events), who breaks any of these very important safety rules gets warnings or is removed from the activity (depending upon the severity or frequency of the behavior). Someone stays with the person and, if needed, discusses the situation when they are calmer. We focus on how the person has ownership of their behaviors & how to deal with their angry or frustrated feelings, not refereeing or figuring out who is "right" or "wrong".
These kids are young & it's very hard for them to pull back when upset. Having a weapon, even a play one, can make them feel more powerful during a frustrating situation and they may then impulsively use it in anger. Adult supervision is so vital for this kind of thing since you don't know them, their personalities and their temperaments. After you all get to know each other better the supervision might be tapered off and the kids can monitor themselves.
Whenever you have other kids at your house you are going to find that they may have very different expectations about how adults will talk to them. Other parents will have different ideas about what is safe and acceptable play. Clear communication and respecting others' way of doing things is so important when developing new relationships.
~ Christine
Anyone, no matter the age (we have adult classes and mixed-age events), who breaks any of these very important safety rules gets warnings or is removed from the activity (depending upon the severity or frequency of the behavior). Someone stays with the person and, if needed, discusses the situation when they are calmer. We focus on how the person has ownership of their behaviors & how to deal with their angry or frustrated feelings, not refereeing or figuring out who is "right" or "wrong".
These kids are young & it's very hard for them to pull back when upset. Having a weapon, even a play one, can make them feel more powerful during a frustrating situation and they may then impulsively use it in anger. Adult supervision is so vital for this kind of thing since you don't know them, their personalities and their temperaments. After you all get to know each other better the supervision might be tapered off and the kids can monitor themselves.
Whenever you have other kids at your house you are going to find that they may have very different expectations about how adults will talk to them. Other parents will have different ideas about what is safe and acceptable play. Clear communication and respecting others' way of doing things is so important when developing new relationships.
~ Christine
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-We just got new neighbors and two of their three kids beat each other with the swords in anger. One is 8 or 9 and the other is probably about 5. Today when I went out to say hi, -=-
>
> Don't leave the swords out there without you or your husband being present. You make the rules. Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
>
> Don't just occasionally go out and say hi. Be there more.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
Christine wrote something better than I did about playing with swords.
This wasn't clear, sorry; I'll try to clarify:
-=-Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
We had boffers all the time my kids were growing up, and they were used to the rules we had come up with before they could remember where they heard them, which was don't hit too hard (no roundhouse shots or spins), don't hit in the face or head, don't stab, be careful. And if there were guests who weren't used to them, Kirby (usually, or one of the older or more experienced boys) would "marshal," by standing by and calling "hold" if something got dangerous, and also for saying when a bout was over and it was someone else's turn. And part of their consideration was to take care of the swords, too--for kids not to hit the ground with them unnecessarily, or sharp corners, or to walk on them--all of the regular things about taking care of equipment and people.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This wasn't clear, sorry; I'll try to clarify:
-=-Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
> -=-I meant not following the rules--hitting each other dangerously, roughly should be cause for taking swords back.
We had boffers all the time my kids were growing up, and they were used to the rules we had come up with before they could remember where they heard them, which was don't hit too hard (no roundhouse shots or spins), don't hit in the face or head, don't stab, be careful. And if there were guests who weren't used to them, Kirby (usually, or one of the older or more experienced boys) would "marshal," by standing by and calling "hold" if something got dangerous, and also for saying when a bout was over and it was someone else's turn. And part of their consideration was to take care of the swords, too--for kids not to hit the ground with them unnecessarily, or sharp corners, or to walk on them--all of the regular things about taking care of equipment and people.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hmbpie
Thanks guys. I was really frustrated last night because I felt our neighbor was blaming me for her kids hitting each other since they were our weapons.
The basket of weapons is inside our front door. I am wondering if today it would be a good idea to move the basket so it's not so easily accessable and have a circle chat with the kids about the rules of engagement.
I feel a little uncomfortable at that thought of telling siblings not to hit each other, even though they are our weapons, when mom is standing there. She always grabs the girl (who is the hitter) and makes her go inside. So, she's handling it the way she sees fit. If they were at our house it wouldn't bother me to say something or if they were hitting Austin it wouldn't bother me to say something, but when mom is there and it's her kids hitting each other..it makes me uncomfortable to step in. What would be a good way to do that because the neighbor mom is really quick on her feet to stop the fighting? I also see that I need to take more responsability for the fact that they are our weapons.
Last night while thinking about what to do better next time I decided it might be best to not go sit over on her porch while the kids play. I'll sit on my own porch and watch. She's a bit of a tyrant with her kids and she's hard to be around. She's really bossy and insulting and mean to them and it's just not any fun to be around her. If I had stayed on my own porch to watch the kids then she wouldn't have said anything to me about hating swords and I wouldn't have heard her telling the kids over and over to stop playing swords. Last time the neighbors gathered on her porch while the kids played we asked where her daughter was and she said, "She really likes to come outside to play and she's in trouble so we took that away from her." I think after that I should have known better than to go to her porch to say hi.
The basket of weapons is inside our front door. I am wondering if today it would be a good idea to move the basket so it's not so easily accessable and have a circle chat with the kids about the rules of engagement.
I feel a little uncomfortable at that thought of telling siblings not to hit each other, even though they are our weapons, when mom is standing there. She always grabs the girl (who is the hitter) and makes her go inside. So, she's handling it the way she sees fit. If they were at our house it wouldn't bother me to say something or if they were hitting Austin it wouldn't bother me to say something, but when mom is there and it's her kids hitting each other..it makes me uncomfortable to step in. What would be a good way to do that because the neighbor mom is really quick on her feet to stop the fighting? I also see that I need to take more responsability for the fact that they are our weapons.
Last night while thinking about what to do better next time I decided it might be best to not go sit over on her porch while the kids play. I'll sit on my own porch and watch. She's a bit of a tyrant with her kids and she's hard to be around. She's really bossy and insulting and mean to them and it's just not any fun to be around her. If I had stayed on my own porch to watch the kids then she wouldn't have said anything to me about hating swords and I wouldn't have heard her telling the kids over and over to stop playing swords. Last time the neighbors gathered on her porch while the kids played we asked where her daughter was and she said, "She really likes to come outside to play and she's in trouble so we took that away from her." I think after that I should have known better than to go to her porch to say hi.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Christine wrote something better than I did about playing with swords.
>
> This wasn't clear, sorry; I'll try to clarify:
>
> -=-Not hitting each other that way should be cause for taking the swords back. Tell them if they want to play with your swords, they need to only hit swords, not each other. Stay there. Or get your kids to enforce the rules.
> > -=-
>
> I meant not following the rules--hitting each other dangerously, roughly should be cause for taking swords back.
>
> We had boffers all the time my kids were growing up, and they were used to the rules we had come up with before they could remember where they heard them, which was don't hit too hard (no roundhouse shots or spins), don't hit in the face or head, don't stab, be careful. And if there were guests who weren't used to them, Kirby (usually, or one of the older or more experienced boys) would "marshal," by standing by and calling "hold" if something got dangerous, and also for saying when a bout was over and it was someone else's turn. And part of their consideration was to take care of the swords, too--for kids not to hit the ground with them unnecessarily, or sharp corners, or to walk on them--all of the regular things about taking care of equipment and people.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
"hmbpie" <heatherpie@...> wrote:
Woops. If you're providing the swords, you're responsible for what the kids are doing with them. If they're in your yard, you're even responsible if they pick up a fallen tree branch and start whacking each other. I don't know if you're "legally" responsible, but it's certainly a social expectation of responsibility for parents.
It's totally reasonable to say "no swords" if the kids are going to hit each other. It might be better to buy or make a bunch of foam swords as a kind of compromise - if you think they'll default to sticks if they can't get swords, I mean - but even then I wouldn't leave the kids to run amok and bash each other out of anger. If you can't be there to keep an eye on things, its better not to provide the swords, or have your kids "police" them if they're willing able to do that - any hitting, and I get my mom and the swords go away.
---Meredith
>> We just got new neighbors and two of their three kids beat each other with the swords in anger. One is 8 or 9 and the other is probably about 5.**************
Woops. If you're providing the swords, you're responsible for what the kids are doing with them. If they're in your yard, you're even responsible if they pick up a fallen tree branch and start whacking each other. I don't know if you're "legally" responsible, but it's certainly a social expectation of responsibility for parents.
It's totally reasonable to say "no swords" if the kids are going to hit each other. It might be better to buy or make a bunch of foam swords as a kind of compromise - if you think they'll default to sticks if they can't get swords, I mean - but even then I wouldn't leave the kids to run amok and bash each other out of anger. If you can't be there to keep an eye on things, its better not to provide the swords, or have your kids "police" them if they're willing able to do that - any hitting, and I get my mom and the swords go away.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-I feel a little uncomfortable at that thought of telling siblings not to hit each other, even though they are our weapons, when mom is standing there.-=-
Don't think of it as telling them not to hit each other.
Think of it as setting condition on ANYbody's use of your family's toy swords.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't think of it as telling them not to hit each other.
Think of it as setting condition on ANYbody's use of your family's toy swords.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I feel a little uncomfortable at that thought of telling siblings not to hit each other, even though they are our weapons, when mom is standing there. She always grabs the girl (who is the hitter) and makes her go inside. So, she's handling it the way she sees fit. If they were at our house it wouldn't bother me to say something or if they were hitting Austin it wouldn't bother me to say something, but when mom is there and it's her kids hitting each other..it makes me uncomfortable to step in.***
If that's the case, I'd state the rules of sword play while the other parents can hear. If they know that there ARE rules of sword play, perhaps they will help enforce it! If the other parents are able to enforce the rules for their own kids, then you might not need to! Better for you that way, then you won't be the one telling them what or what not to do while their parents are right there. That seems like a win/win all around!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If that's the case, I'd state the rules of sword play while the other parents can hear. If they know that there ARE rules of sword play, perhaps they will help enforce it! If the other parents are able to enforce the rules for their own kids, then you might not need to! Better for you that way, then you won't be the one telling them what or what not to do while their parents are right there. That seems like a win/win all around!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 21, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:
We have a swimming pool - and I had some rules for when other people's children were there. No diving head first into the pool. Walking, not running, around the deck. No holding other people underwater. And sometimes if a kid was being very annoying to the other kids, I'd say, "No splashing someone in their face on purpose," as if that was a regular rule.
I stepped in, whether a kid's parent was there or not. I did ask other parents to come and be watchers - so that I didn't end up spending quite as much time out there watching - I could go in and at least move laundry from washer to dryer or go to the bathroom, etc. But I would not have allowed other kids to play in our pool if I was going to wait for their parents to enforce my very minimal pool rules. I was nice about it, but very clear. "If you guys want to play in the pool, then you have to obey the rules." There were a few kids, over the years, who wouldn't abide by the rules and, at first, I'd just say, "Hey, johnny, sit on the side of the pool for a minute." Then I'd go over and talk with him and tell him that he wouldn't be able to play in the pool if he ran on the deck or dived in head first from the side. If he forgot (and it was clear to me he'd forgotten). I'd remind a time or two. They knew I meant it. Only one time ever, in about 20 years, did I actually send a kid home.
My point is, you are providing swords, like I was providing the pool. I would be comfortable with stepping forward and saying, "You are welcome to play with our swords if you don't hit on heads." Something like that. Some parents can't seem to tell their kids to stop anything�or they overreact and they punish them or shame them when they could have just reminded them or told them to stop. If you step in first, nicely remind them not to hit in the head, the ineffectual parent won't have the chance to overreact and punish.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ***I feel a little uncomfortable at that thought of telling siblings not to hit each other, even though they are our weapons, when mom is standing there. She always grabs the girl (who is the hitter) and makes her go inside. So, she's handling it the way she sees fit. If they were at our house it wouldn't bother me to say something or if they were hitting Austin it wouldn't bother me to say something, but when mom is there and it's her kids hitting each other..it makes me uncomfortable to step in.***I would step in.
We have a swimming pool - and I had some rules for when other people's children were there. No diving head first into the pool. Walking, not running, around the deck. No holding other people underwater. And sometimes if a kid was being very annoying to the other kids, I'd say, "No splashing someone in their face on purpose," as if that was a regular rule.
I stepped in, whether a kid's parent was there or not. I did ask other parents to come and be watchers - so that I didn't end up spending quite as much time out there watching - I could go in and at least move laundry from washer to dryer or go to the bathroom, etc. But I would not have allowed other kids to play in our pool if I was going to wait for their parents to enforce my very minimal pool rules. I was nice about it, but very clear. "If you guys want to play in the pool, then you have to obey the rules." There were a few kids, over the years, who wouldn't abide by the rules and, at first, I'd just say, "Hey, johnny, sit on the side of the pool for a minute." Then I'd go over and talk with him and tell him that he wouldn't be able to play in the pool if he ran on the deck or dived in head first from the side. If he forgot (and it was clear to me he'd forgotten). I'd remind a time or two. They knew I meant it. Only one time ever, in about 20 years, did I actually send a kid home.
My point is, you are providing swords, like I was providing the pool. I would be comfortable with stepping forward and saying, "You are welcome to play with our swords if you don't hit on heads." Something like that. Some parents can't seem to tell their kids to stop anything�or they overreact and they punish them or shame them when they could have just reminded them or told them to stop. If you step in first, nicely remind them not to hit in the head, the ineffectual parent won't have the chance to overreact and punish.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]