Nature or nurture? Writing and clarity
Sandra Dodd
Marty is taking a class on Eastern Religions. He write a response paper on the Bhagavad-Gita, relating his own thoughts to three passages of his choice. He got an 83% (just for the record; the teacher wanted one section to have been longer).
There were lots of comments, but one was "I liked the authenticity of your response, and I think you have a gift for putting these concepts in simple terms that are easy to relate to."
Maybe it's partly that he's been around philosophy discussions all his life (SCA-related--virtues, chivalry; alternative education; parenting). Maybe it's partly that he's the biological product of two adults who have friends and visitors who talk about those things. It's hard to say, really, but the combination of the two together has created a young adult who will take an Eastern Religions class out of curiosity, who isn't intimidated by the reading or the request that he relate his own thoughts and experiences in relation to them.
Here's part of what Marty wrote:
"The Bhagavad-Gita speaks of meditation as a way to Moksha, or enlightenment. Meditation is something that is fairly common i my life, not as a prayer but as a practical form of self control. My mother tells me all the time "take three deep breaths," when I'm excited, angry, scared, sad, or any number of other things that might cause me to be out of focus. When I do stop and take a second to breathe, I feel my heart slow, my muscles relax, and my mind clear. And when I turn my mind back to the task, I always get results that I am more comfortable with."
=====
I cringe at the "self control" phrase, but hey... He doesn't read this list or my site.
The teacher wrote "well put" on "as a practical form of self control."
It's possible that Marty has a good tool for relaxing about reading philosophy and writing papers for college classes, though, too. :-)
He told me last week that he's thinking of taking a writing class, like the remedial/review courses he wasn't required to take because he tested into English 101. He did take a non-required reading/rhetoric class, but he's interested in the mechanics of writing. I recommended that he write on video games sites for practice. He's going to think about it.
I think most college students would be aghast at or ashamed of the idea of taking a review course in an area where they already had credits. Marty doesn't see it that way at all. It's interesting for me to watch the way he deals with these classes and this writing.
Sandra
There were lots of comments, but one was "I liked the authenticity of your response, and I think you have a gift for putting these concepts in simple terms that are easy to relate to."
Maybe it's partly that he's been around philosophy discussions all his life (SCA-related--virtues, chivalry; alternative education; parenting). Maybe it's partly that he's the biological product of two adults who have friends and visitors who talk about those things. It's hard to say, really, but the combination of the two together has created a young adult who will take an Eastern Religions class out of curiosity, who isn't intimidated by the reading or the request that he relate his own thoughts and experiences in relation to them.
Here's part of what Marty wrote:
"The Bhagavad-Gita speaks of meditation as a way to Moksha, or enlightenment. Meditation is something that is fairly common i my life, not as a prayer but as a practical form of self control. My mother tells me all the time "take three deep breaths," when I'm excited, angry, scared, sad, or any number of other things that might cause me to be out of focus. When I do stop and take a second to breathe, I feel my heart slow, my muscles relax, and my mind clear. And when I turn my mind back to the task, I always get results that I am more comfortable with."
=====
I cringe at the "self control" phrase, but hey... He doesn't read this list or my site.
The teacher wrote "well put" on "as a practical form of self control."
It's possible that Marty has a good tool for relaxing about reading philosophy and writing papers for college classes, though, too. :-)
He told me last week that he's thinking of taking a writing class, like the remedial/review courses he wasn't required to take because he tested into English 101. He did take a non-required reading/rhetoric class, but he's interested in the mechanics of writing. I recommended that he write on video games sites for practice. He's going to think about it.
I think most college students would be aghast at or ashamed of the idea of taking a review course in an area where they already had credits. Marty doesn't see it that way at all. It's interesting for me to watch the way he deals with these classes and this writing.
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***I cringe at the "self control" phrase, but hey... He doesn't read this list or my site.
The teacher wrote "well put" on "as a practical form of self control."***
In the context though, self control makes sense to me. He's controlling his own self through breath and simple meditation. In that simple act, he's not controlling others with his otherwise emotive response.
***I think most college students would be aghast at or ashamed of the idea of taking a review course in an area where they already had credits. Marty doesn't see it that way at all. It's interesting for me to watch the way he deals with these classes and this writing.***
I believe it was Lyla, who wrote on facebook somewhere that 80% of all incoming college students place in the remedial level writing and math classes. One of the kids staying with me just applied for community college and was placed in the remedial classes. She tried to register for those classes and they are all full and wait listed.
My sister recently justified teaching her children the classics and demanding hardcore reading and writing, by giving her kids the ability to get into a higher entry level college course. She had a friend who's child, homeschooled, had tested into remedial writing. My sister was appalled at that and used that as a basis for her argument that unschooling is educational neglect. She is sure that her homeschooling method of high demand is going to get her kids honors and ahead of others. Her kids are very book smart and have many other talents as well, so she may be right, her kids might be ahead of others. The downside, is that they are afraid to say what they feel and mean, if they even know anymore.
I'd be willing to bet money that none of them would take an Eastern Religions class for the fun and interest. What Marty wrote, was a piece of self awareness. That, in and of itself, is a beautiful thing. The fact that he has the ability to really know himself enough to be that way is wonderful. I think all of us meet people all the time who aren't and it's refreshing to meet young people who are! Unschooling really works toward that.
Here's a little thing I heard Margaux, 1o yrs, say the other day. She was talking with one of the neighbor boys. She said, "You will never be Adam, you can never be Adam, because you are you and you will always be you." Adam is another neighbor boy, one of the slightly older ones that most of the other boys look up to because he's really nice. I'm not sure what started the conversation, but I'm assuming there was a comparison in the boy's head. I know Margaux's intentions because I know her... She was telling this kid that he should focus on being who he is rather than being who he is not.
It's a valuable skill, focusing on what you have and who you are, rather than what you don't have and who you aren't. Marty seems to have that. A lot of unschooled kids seem to have that. I see it in my kids too. Marty has the freedom to take an Eastern Religions class and the freedom to share what he writes in that class with his mother. He gave a little glimpse of himself in that writing.
I would never trade that for all the forced classics and essays in all the world!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The teacher wrote "well put" on "as a practical form of self control."***
In the context though, self control makes sense to me. He's controlling his own self through breath and simple meditation. In that simple act, he's not controlling others with his otherwise emotive response.
***I think most college students would be aghast at or ashamed of the idea of taking a review course in an area where they already had credits. Marty doesn't see it that way at all. It's interesting for me to watch the way he deals with these classes and this writing.***
I believe it was Lyla, who wrote on facebook somewhere that 80% of all incoming college students place in the remedial level writing and math classes. One of the kids staying with me just applied for community college and was placed in the remedial classes. She tried to register for those classes and they are all full and wait listed.
My sister recently justified teaching her children the classics and demanding hardcore reading and writing, by giving her kids the ability to get into a higher entry level college course. She had a friend who's child, homeschooled, had tested into remedial writing. My sister was appalled at that and used that as a basis for her argument that unschooling is educational neglect. She is sure that her homeschooling method of high demand is going to get her kids honors and ahead of others. Her kids are very book smart and have many other talents as well, so she may be right, her kids might be ahead of others. The downside, is that they are afraid to say what they feel and mean, if they even know anymore.
I'd be willing to bet money that none of them would take an Eastern Religions class for the fun and interest. What Marty wrote, was a piece of self awareness. That, in and of itself, is a beautiful thing. The fact that he has the ability to really know himself enough to be that way is wonderful. I think all of us meet people all the time who aren't and it's refreshing to meet young people who are! Unschooling really works toward that.
Here's a little thing I heard Margaux, 1o yrs, say the other day. She was talking with one of the neighbor boys. She said, "You will never be Adam, you can never be Adam, because you are you and you will always be you." Adam is another neighbor boy, one of the slightly older ones that most of the other boys look up to because he's really nice. I'm not sure what started the conversation, but I'm assuming there was a comparison in the boy's head. I know Margaux's intentions because I know her... She was telling this kid that he should focus on being who he is rather than being who he is not.
It's a valuable skill, focusing on what you have and who you are, rather than what you don't have and who you aren't. Marty seems to have that. A lot of unschooled kids seem to have that. I see it in my kids too. Marty has the freedom to take an Eastern Religions class and the freedom to share what he writes in that class with his mother. He gave a little glimpse of himself in that writing.
I would never trade that for all the forced classics and essays in all the world!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jill Parmer
On Sep 25, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
playing guild in World of Warcraft (WoW), and part of what we do is
make up stories for our guild and characters and write it out online,
and get other guilds (even opposing faction guilds) to work with us to
play out the story in-game.
To write better, I read and reread the stories I like best, the ones
where I can feel the characters sighing, or scared or feeling their
feelings, and think about how the writer did that. I tend to forget
how to punctuate conversations, so I look at a book I'm reading at the
time, and see how it's done there. Lately that's been the Harry
Potter books.
This link is to the a story on the WoW forums where we got both
factions involved in a role-play. We got a compliment from one
person. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2795072646 I'm
Hilarion.
For decades I've been afraid to write and ashamed of my writing. I
can pinpoint that back to my feelings about a paper in a school
writing class when I was 13 years old. WoW has been fun for me and my
kids and it's easy to make up stories for our characters, and then I
stumbled upon people who share their stories in written form in
public, and I wanted to play with them. Reading this list and
learning to write what you mean, has helped me in that fiction. It's
been very healing.
Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> but he's interested in the mechanics of writing. I recommended thatI've had so much fun writing at video game sites. I'm part of a role-
> he write on video games sites for practice. He's going to think
> about it.
playing guild in World of Warcraft (WoW), and part of what we do is
make up stories for our guild and characters and write it out online,
and get other guilds (even opposing faction guilds) to work with us to
play out the story in-game.
To write better, I read and reread the stories I like best, the ones
where I can feel the characters sighing, or scared or feeling their
feelings, and think about how the writer did that. I tend to forget
how to punctuate conversations, so I look at a book I'm reading at the
time, and see how it's done there. Lately that's been the Harry
Potter books.
This link is to the a story on the WoW forums where we got both
factions involved in a role-play. We got a compliment from one
person. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2795072646 I'm
Hilarion.
For decades I've been afraid to write and ashamed of my writing. I
can pinpoint that back to my feelings about a paper in a school
writing class when I was 13 years old. WoW has been fun for me and my
kids and it's easy to make up stories for our characters, and then I
stumbled upon people who share their stories in written form in
public, and I wanted to play with them. Reading this list and
learning to write what you mean, has helped me in that fiction. It's
been very healing.
Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Her kids are very book smart and have many other talents as well, so she may be right, her kids might be ahead of others. The downside, is that they are afraid to say what they feel and mean, if they even know anymore.-=-
Tonight Holly's boyfriend came over, with his dad and two of his three brothers (both a bit younger than he is, but late teens). Keith and Marty came through and chatted a bit, but the meal and a long game of Five Crowns with a fair amount of chit chat was me, Holly, and those four of her boyfriend's family.
Those boys are well accomplished, school kids but with jobs and hobbies and artistic projects, all of them. The middle one does stand-up comedy and goes to college. But the person at the table who was the best at adding scores and figuring out at a glance how someone could rearrange cards to make a better score was Holly, no question. The middle of the three was sitting next to me. The two of us were taking turns losing, which meant we had to add up a handful of cards at face value (not easy all 5's and 10's, like rummy, but face value with Jacks 11, Queens 12 and Kings 13). I can do it, but self-consciously. Tom the brother had a very hard time. Nobody razzed him about it at all, and Will (Holly's guy) was the scorekeeper and would help him but I was aware of that because I'm nervous about how they will see Holly. (No problem.)
The banter was all happily joyful and clever.
A couple of times Holly didn't know what something meant and would say so, without self-consciousness. One was "peer review" (of scientific papers or reports), and Tom explained it to her clearly and simply and it wasn't embarrassing. But I think a lot of 20 year olds might be embarrassed to admit they didn't know something, and Holly never is. That's the way she's always learned--asking questions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tonight Holly's boyfriend came over, with his dad and two of his three brothers (both a bit younger than he is, but late teens). Keith and Marty came through and chatted a bit, but the meal and a long game of Five Crowns with a fair amount of chit chat was me, Holly, and those four of her boyfriend's family.
Those boys are well accomplished, school kids but with jobs and hobbies and artistic projects, all of them. The middle one does stand-up comedy and goes to college. But the person at the table who was the best at adding scores and figuring out at a glance how someone could rearrange cards to make a better score was Holly, no question. The middle of the three was sitting next to me. The two of us were taking turns losing, which meant we had to add up a handful of cards at face value (not easy all 5's and 10's, like rummy, but face value with Jacks 11, Queens 12 and Kings 13). I can do it, but self-consciously. Tom the brother had a very hard time. Nobody razzed him about it at all, and Will (Holly's guy) was the scorekeeper and would help him but I was aware of that because I'm nervous about how they will see Holly. (No problem.)
The banter was all happily joyful and clever.
A couple of times Holly didn't know what something meant and would say so, without self-consciousness. One was "peer review" (of scientific papers or reports), and Tom explained it to her clearly and simply and it wasn't embarrassing. But I think a lot of 20 year olds might be embarrassed to admit they didn't know something, and Holly never is. That's the way she's always learned--asking questions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I'm still often embarrassed to ask questions and I'm quite a bit older than 20 ;) It's sometimes a revelation to me to watch someone else ask a question plainly rather than trying to bluff through a situation. Bluffing through is something I learned in school and from being a "smart girl"; a bit of schoolish baggage that has kept me from asking a lot of times when it would be better to just ask.
In the last few years I've gotten better at asking. It helped me to go see unschooling kids of various ages (mine and others) ask questions, say "I don't know" or "I don't know how to do that yet".
---Meredith
>> A couple of times Holly didn't know what something meant and would say so, without self-consciousness. One was "peer review" (of scientific papers or reports), and Tom explained it to her clearly and simply and it wasn't embarrassing. But I think a lot of 20 year olds might be embarrassed to admit they didn't know something, and Holly never is. That's the way she's always learned--asking questions.********************
I'm still often embarrassed to ask questions and I'm quite a bit older than 20 ;) It's sometimes a revelation to me to watch someone else ask a question plainly rather than trying to bluff through a situation. Bluffing through is something I learned in school and from being a "smart girl"; a bit of schoolish baggage that has kept me from asking a lot of times when it would be better to just ask.
In the last few years I've gotten better at asking. It helped me to go see unschooling kids of various ages (mine and others) ask questions, say "I don't know" or "I don't know how to do that yet".
---Meredith