Teasing
dapsign
Last month, Logan turned 5 and with that came visits from grandparents we see a few times a year. There was some teasing aimed at both Logan and Gibson (8 months old) from both grandfathers. My father-in-law likes to take videos of the kids during his visit and then mails us a copy later. We've been watching the video FIL made and there are a few instances of him calling Logan "a ham" because he likes to see the video while it's being recorded, which was possible on FIL's video camera. I wasn't with them during a couple of times FIL did this, so am learning of the teasing after the fact. There was even an exchange between FIL and Logan that sounded like, "You're a ham". "No, I'm not!". "Yes you are." I think it bothered Logan because we were talking recently and he thought I called him a ham and he said, "Don't call me a ham!".
My dad also teased Gibson. Gibson got a little fussy while my dad was holding him and there were a lot of comments like, "What's with the lip?" My dad said a few things to Logan too that seemed to upset Logan. When we were cutting the birthday cake (it was a truck) Logan picked out which wheel he wanted to eat. My dad said, "hey that's the wheel I want!" In that case, I told my dad there were lots of wheels and I would cut him another.
I'm wondering if there is anyway I can support Logan and Gibson if the teasing happens again.
Dina
My dad also teased Gibson. Gibson got a little fussy while my dad was holding him and there were a lot of comments like, "What's with the lip?" My dad said a few things to Logan too that seemed to upset Logan. When we were cutting the birthday cake (it was a truck) Logan picked out which wheel he wanted to eat. My dad said, "hey that's the wheel I want!" In that case, I told my dad there were lots of wheels and I would cut him another.
I'm wondering if there is anyway I can support Logan and Gibson if the teasing happens again.
Dina
Sandra Dodd
Rather than trying to change the grandfathers, I would make light of it and tell your kids that they don't mean to hurt feelings with it. It's their way of playing, and that it's good, when people play, to be as nice as they can be. Maybe that's as nice as they know how to be. But don't blow it out of proportion by telling him it's wrong and bad and mean. There are better ways, and your boys will figure them out by seeing the ways different people act and choosing to be more like the ones they appreciate most.
Sandra
Sandra
aldq75
-=- your boys will figure them out by seeing the ways different people act and choosing to be more like the ones they appreciate most. -=-
I have two children that struggle with teasing and trickery (one is a teen). While I agree that most people will figure out playful teasing, but some never do. Even though grandpa doesn't mean any harm, the child can still feel attacked.
If it continues to be a problem, I would try to be close by to help soften any teasing that might occur. Depending on the child and the situation, it might be helpful to talk about the visit the night before and discuss some strategies. One thing that helped my oldest was turning the teasing back on the other person ("No, Grandpa, you're a ham!"). Seeing you and your husband tease each other a bit might be helpful, too.
Andrea Q
I have two children that struggle with teasing and trickery (one is a teen). While I agree that most people will figure out playful teasing, but some never do. Even though grandpa doesn't mean any harm, the child can still feel attacked.
If it continues to be a problem, I would try to be close by to help soften any teasing that might occur. Depending on the child and the situation, it might be helpful to talk about the visit the night before and discuss some strategies. One thing that helped my oldest was turning the teasing back on the other person ("No, Grandpa, you're a ham!"). Seeing you and your husband tease each other a bit might be helpful, too.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Sandra Dodd
-=-While I agree that most people will figure out playful teasing, but some never do. Even though grandpa doesn't mean any harm, the child can still feel attacked. -=-
Less so if the mother is soothing and encouraging and doesn't contribute to making it feel like an attack.
Children shouldn't need to figure out ANYthing all by themselves, but some mothers make drama where there didn't mean to be any. Some mothers can learn to make light and joy where there could have been drama.
-=- One thing that helped my oldest was turning the teasing back on the other person ("No, Grandpa, you're a ham!"). -=-
My kids have done some of that, or just asking the person "What you do you mean?" or "Why would you say that?" Sometimes people are talking from habit, not thoughtfully.
-=-Seeing you and your husband tease each other a bit might be helpful, too.-=-
Unless that's also mean. Some families say "just joking," but they're insulting each other "for fun," and it doesn't matter if one kids doesn't like it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Less so if the mother is soothing and encouraging and doesn't contribute to making it feel like an attack.
Children shouldn't need to figure out ANYthing all by themselves, but some mothers make drama where there didn't mean to be any. Some mothers can learn to make light and joy where there could have been drama.
-=- One thing that helped my oldest was turning the teasing back on the other person ("No, Grandpa, you're a ham!"). -=-
My kids have done some of that, or just asking the person "What you do you mean?" or "Why would you say that?" Sometimes people are talking from habit, not thoughtfully.
-=-Seeing you and your husband tease each other a bit might be helpful, too.-=-
Unless that's also mean. Some families say "just joking," but they're insulting each other "for fun," and it doesn't matter if one kids doesn't like it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David LaPlante
Teasing is a complex subject for which there is an abundance of research on and you can Google it until your head explodes. There's healthy teasing and there's unhealthy that ranges from the spiteful lack-of-self-confident to outright bullying. You're kids will experience it all in their life so sheltering gets you (them) nowhere, and in my humble opinion disadvantages them. One of my favorite studies can be found here:
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/dacherkeltner/docs/keltner.teasing.jpsp.1998.pdf
A few things from our experiences:
We have two boys (One named Logan, btw.) and my wife's family is Italian and aspires to live up to every cliche you would expect in a highly functional dysfunctional Italian family. So teasing was not only going to be the norm, it's also an expected part of the culture.
We tease all the time (in healthy ways). And now that our boys are 9/12 they are fully adept at dishing their own creative teasing back. Especially at the many uncles, aunts, cousins and grandpa.
I recall the very situation you laid out with our kids own grandfather where I said to him, "Careful gramps, are you going to be able to take it when they get older and tease you about all that ear hair and you're inability to work any form of current technology despite have a degree in electrical engineering." (I'm pretty good at it myself - credit to my parents!)
Especially with boys it's inevitable. Boys brains are hardwired that way and while you can socialize around it the easier route (and again in my opinion) and more healthy approach is to leverage it to develop critical thinking skills in both self-awareness and social awareness. And having hired and fired about 200 people in my life I can also attest to the degree to which it's a critical survival and professional development skill. Especially the ability to be self-depreciating.
We love to tease each other. One of our favorite games we play at the dinner table is to make fun of each other (and friends/relatives) by playing "Guess who I am." Endless hours of laughing and in a healthy way knocking off egos that need knocking.
Just last night the kids had a great time of making fun of my "huge guns" (my arms) since I've recently began going back to the gym. I'm very scrawny BTW. Logan won by acting like me while taking a tomato off a plate and crushing it while remarking, "Ooops. Well look at that. I guess I'm getting superman strong now! I can't control it!!!" And I love that the boys can tease their Mom about things that might result in me sleeping on the couch and she can see her own little ego-issues. (Watching the kids make fun of her need for coffee in the morning is priceless.)
When Cody was five he emulated his Italian granmda so perfectly we all laughed so hard that we all nearly peed our pants. And we think grandma may have she laughed so hard. She has a habit of spilling things and then exclaiming in a very Italian way "Dammit!". When it was Cody's turn he knocked his milk over and yelled "Dammit!". (Guess you had to be there 8-)
Anyways - as longhaired unschooled freaks they catch crap everywhere they go and I'm stoked to see that it doesn't affect them because what any of the other kids or relatives (and especially the "threatened" parents of their schooled friends!) can come up with is less creative than what's already been thrown at them. Even better is they can dish it back and it usually stops there. Or progresses in a healthy way.
So I guess what I'm saying is that in our experience teasing can not only be healthy, it can produce self-confidence and positive self-image through creative and often hilarious poking fun at each-other's idiosyncrasies and indulgent behaviors.
-- David
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/dacherkeltner/docs/keltner.teasing.jpsp.1998.pdf
A few things from our experiences:
We have two boys (One named Logan, btw.) and my wife's family is Italian and aspires to live up to every cliche you would expect in a highly functional dysfunctional Italian family. So teasing was not only going to be the norm, it's also an expected part of the culture.
We tease all the time (in healthy ways). And now that our boys are 9/12 they are fully adept at dishing their own creative teasing back. Especially at the many uncles, aunts, cousins and grandpa.
I recall the very situation you laid out with our kids own grandfather where I said to him, "Careful gramps, are you going to be able to take it when they get older and tease you about all that ear hair and you're inability to work any form of current technology despite have a degree in electrical engineering." (I'm pretty good at it myself - credit to my parents!)
Especially with boys it's inevitable. Boys brains are hardwired that way and while you can socialize around it the easier route (and again in my opinion) and more healthy approach is to leverage it to develop critical thinking skills in both self-awareness and social awareness. And having hired and fired about 200 people in my life I can also attest to the degree to which it's a critical survival and professional development skill. Especially the ability to be self-depreciating.
We love to tease each other. One of our favorite games we play at the dinner table is to make fun of each other (and friends/relatives) by playing "Guess who I am." Endless hours of laughing and in a healthy way knocking off egos that need knocking.
Just last night the kids had a great time of making fun of my "huge guns" (my arms) since I've recently began going back to the gym. I'm very scrawny BTW. Logan won by acting like me while taking a tomato off a plate and crushing it while remarking, "Ooops. Well look at that. I guess I'm getting superman strong now! I can't control it!!!" And I love that the boys can tease their Mom about things that might result in me sleeping on the couch and she can see her own little ego-issues. (Watching the kids make fun of her need for coffee in the morning is priceless.)
When Cody was five he emulated his Italian granmda so perfectly we all laughed so hard that we all nearly peed our pants. And we think grandma may have she laughed so hard. She has a habit of spilling things and then exclaiming in a very Italian way "Dammit!". When it was Cody's turn he knocked his milk over and yelled "Dammit!". (Guess you had to be there 8-)
Anyways - as longhaired unschooled freaks they catch crap everywhere they go and I'm stoked to see that it doesn't affect them because what any of the other kids or relatives (and especially the "threatened" parents of their schooled friends!) can come up with is less creative than what's already been thrown at them. Even better is they can dish it back and it usually stops there. Or progresses in a healthy way.
So I guess what I'm saying is that in our experience teasing can not only be healthy, it can produce self-confidence and positive self-image through creative and often hilarious poking fun at each-other's idiosyncrasies and indulgent behaviors.
-- David
--- In [email protected], "dapsign" <dapsign@...> wrote:
>
> Last month, Logan turned 5 and with that came visits from grandparents we see a few times a year. There was some teasing aimed at both Logan and Gibson (8 months old) from both grandfathers. My father-in-law likes to take videos of the kids during his visit and then mails us a copy later. We've been watching the video FIL made and there are a few instances of him calling Logan "a ham" because he likes to see the video while it's being recorded, which was possible on FIL's video camera. I wasn't with them during a couple of times FIL did this, so am learning of the teasing after the fact. There was even an exchange between FIL and Logan that sounded like, "You're a ham". "No, I'm not!". "Yes you are." I think it bothered Logan because we were talking recently and he thought I called him a ham and he said, "Don't call me a ham!".
>
> My dad also teased Gibson. Gibson got a little fussy while my dad was holding him and there were a lot of comments like, "What's with the lip?" My dad said a few things to Logan too that seemed to upset Logan. When we were cutting the birthday cake (it was a truck) Logan picked out which wheel he wanted to eat. My dad said, "hey that's the wheel I want!" In that case, I told my dad there were lots of wheels and I would cut him another.
>
> I'm wondering if there is anyway I can support Logan and Gibson if the teasing happens again.
>
> Dina
>
Pamela Sorooshian
About the social benefits of light teasing�and about helping kids engage in it when it is "good" teasing and putting a stop to it when it is really cruelty or meanness in disguise.
<http://www.natcom.org/CommCurrentsArticle.aspx?id=1447>
-pam
<http://www.natcom.org/CommCurrentsArticle.aspx?id=1447>
-pam
On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:36 AM, David LaPlante wrote:
> So I guess what I'm saying is that in our experience teasing can not only be healthy, it can produce self-confidence and positive self-image through creative and often hilarious poking fun at each-other's idiosyncrasies and indulgent behaviors.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dapsign
I was teased a lot as a kid by my parents (imitating the way I talk or when I laughed or giggled) and was told that I was "too sensitive" when the teasing bothered me. I honestly do not know if I can tell the difference between good teasing vs. mean teasing with regards to the kids. My husband and I tease each other in a playful way but to me it seems different than the teasing aimed at the kids.
When Logan recently asked me why Grandpa called him a ham, I said I didn't know. If he asks again I will tell him it is Grandpa's way of playing.
I think the teasing of the kids upset me more than it did to them. When I heard Grandpa calling Logan a ham, I understood that to mean that Grandpa thought Logan wanted too much attention.
Dina
When Logan recently asked me why Grandpa called him a ham, I said I didn't know. If he asks again I will tell him it is Grandpa's way of playing.
I think the teasing of the kids upset me more than it did to them. When I heard Grandpa calling Logan a ham, I understood that to mean that Grandpa thought Logan wanted too much attention.
Dina
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> About the social benefits of light teasing and about helping kids engage in it when it is "good" teasing and putting a stop to it when it is really cruelty or meanness in disguise.
>
> <http://www.natcom.org/CommCurrentsArticle.aspx?id=1447>
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:36 AM, David LaPlante wrote:
>
> > So I guess what I'm saying is that in our experience teasing can not only be healthy, it can produce self-confidence and positive self-image through creative and often hilarious poking fun at each-other's idiosyncrasies and indulgent behaviors.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was teased a lot as a kid by my parents (imitating the way I talk or when I laughed or giggled) and was told that I was "too sensitive" when the teasing bothered me. I honestly do not know if I can tell the difference between good teasing vs. mean teasing with regards to the kids.-=-
I've seen that in mean families and I've seen it in families that didn't know they were being mean. And yes, people "have to" take it, or else the bullying takes a turn toward why they objected. And that's the point at which it DOES become bullying even if it wasn't before.
My younger sister was called "cow's tail" by my mom, and the rest of us joined in, laughing, and it stuck. "Come on, cow," my mom would say to her. It meant she was the last to get into the car, and the last to get out; the last to show up when my mom called us together somewhere. Looking back, I don't blame her. If it takes her longer to transition, that could have been used to make her feel better. My mom could have said sweetly "Could you make sure the door is shut?" That would have given her an excuse, and made her feel important.
And it's teasing when the same statement or phrase is repeated. Teasing like teasing a dog. Training like training a dog to take abuse.
When someone says something once, to help someone understand something, then it's information, conversation. But when the same thing is said several times over months or years to taunt or shame, that's not fun. Defending that can be like defending a bully.
My husband's mother was kind of a bully--very controlling and inflexible in her home, and pretty pushy in others. Not teasing in any fun way, just belittling. We learned to meet in neutral places where that hardly happened. And I learned to feel sorry for my husband, who had endured a childhood of that (and to understand why many of his best childhood stories were of time spent elsewhere). That all helped our children understand, too, that we were making conscious decisions to be the way we were being.
Had we lived with her in her house, it would have been her house, and part of the cost of being there would have been to accept that that's the way she was. I'm glad we didn't. For some years we lived in her former house, which Keith was buying from them slowly. There was a heavy touch of her dismay and disgust that we didn't keep it up the way she had in the 1950's when it was new.
But back to teasing, depending on the dynamics of the groups, perhaps one of the middle-generation could speak to the grandparent and ask him to avoid meanness. But I wouldn't make it a condition of being around occasionally. It can be a little valuable for children to see the contrast between people, and to practice slightly odd, new situations in safety that way, with the parents and grandparents all in one place.
I found that my kids were only amused or slightly inconvenienced by their grandmother's behavior. It didn't hurt them because they knew they would be gone in a day or two.
Maybe coaching them with a few lines like "Why do you say that?" would be useful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've seen that in mean families and I've seen it in families that didn't know they were being mean. And yes, people "have to" take it, or else the bullying takes a turn toward why they objected. And that's the point at which it DOES become bullying even if it wasn't before.
My younger sister was called "cow's tail" by my mom, and the rest of us joined in, laughing, and it stuck. "Come on, cow," my mom would say to her. It meant she was the last to get into the car, and the last to get out; the last to show up when my mom called us together somewhere. Looking back, I don't blame her. If it takes her longer to transition, that could have been used to make her feel better. My mom could have said sweetly "Could you make sure the door is shut?" That would have given her an excuse, and made her feel important.
And it's teasing when the same statement or phrase is repeated. Teasing like teasing a dog. Training like training a dog to take abuse.
When someone says something once, to help someone understand something, then it's information, conversation. But when the same thing is said several times over months or years to taunt or shame, that's not fun. Defending that can be like defending a bully.
My husband's mother was kind of a bully--very controlling and inflexible in her home, and pretty pushy in others. Not teasing in any fun way, just belittling. We learned to meet in neutral places where that hardly happened. And I learned to feel sorry for my husband, who had endured a childhood of that (and to understand why many of his best childhood stories were of time spent elsewhere). That all helped our children understand, too, that we were making conscious decisions to be the way we were being.
Had we lived with her in her house, it would have been her house, and part of the cost of being there would have been to accept that that's the way she was. I'm glad we didn't. For some years we lived in her former house, which Keith was buying from them slowly. There was a heavy touch of her dismay and disgust that we didn't keep it up the way she had in the 1950's when it was new.
But back to teasing, depending on the dynamics of the groups, perhaps one of the middle-generation could speak to the grandparent and ask him to avoid meanness. But I wouldn't make it a condition of being around occasionally. It can be a little valuable for children to see the contrast between people, and to practice slightly odd, new situations in safety that way, with the parents and grandparents all in one place.
I found that my kids were only amused or slightly inconvenienced by their grandmother's behavior. It didn't hurt them because they knew they would be gone in a day or two.
Maybe coaching them with a few lines like "Why do you say that?" would be useful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"dapsign" <dapsign@...> wrote:
Hang on... Is that what he means? My first thought was "cute and funny" not "too much attention-seeking behavior". It might not hurt to talk about the fact that words and idioms can mean more than one thing. But its such an old fashioned expression, its not surprising that a young boy wouldn't have Any idea what it means and may be mis-reading tone and body language trying to figure it out.
Mocking someone doesn't sound like friendly, gentle teasing, it sounds like someone with poor self esteem trying to knock down someone else's. Thinking about rough teasing that way can be helpful - it comes from a sense of inadequacy, from unmet needs getting in the way of a relationship even if the person doing the teasing is trying to have fun.
I've learned to be careful of my teasing and not poke at people's soft points, but not everyone learns how to tease gently. It takes a certain amount of empathy to tease well! In the process, I've also learned not to take rough teasing personally.
---Meredith
>> When I heard Grandpa calling Logan a ham, I understood that to mean that Grandpa thought Logan wanted too much attention.****************
Hang on... Is that what he means? My first thought was "cute and funny" not "too much attention-seeking behavior". It might not hurt to talk about the fact that words and idioms can mean more than one thing. But its such an old fashioned expression, its not surprising that a young boy wouldn't have Any idea what it means and may be mis-reading tone and body language trying to figure it out.
> I was teased a lot as a kid by my parents (imitating the way I talk or when I laughed or giggled) and was told that I was "too sensitive" when the teasing bothered me.********************
Mocking someone doesn't sound like friendly, gentle teasing, it sounds like someone with poor self esteem trying to knock down someone else's. Thinking about rough teasing that way can be helpful - it comes from a sense of inadequacy, from unmet needs getting in the way of a relationship even if the person doing the teasing is trying to have fun.
I've learned to be careful of my teasing and not poke at people's soft points, but not everyone learns how to tease gently. It takes a certain amount of empathy to tease well! In the process, I've also learned not to take rough teasing personally.
---Meredith
dapsign
"Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Dina
> Hang on... Is that what he means? My first thought was "cute and funny" not "too much attention-seeking behavior".I think he was meaning too much attention seeking behavior because at one point in the video Logan asks what being a ham means. Grandpa said, "it's someone who likes to be at the center of attention - steals the show." I think it probably bothered me because its seems to me that Grandpa doesn't know much about typical 5-year old behavior. I also find it interesting that Grandpa didn't say it when I was present. Although his wife did, and I replied that Logan is a 5-year old boy.
Dina