Family visiting
DaBreeze21
Hello!
In a week and a half my husband's parents will be visiting us for a long weekend. My daughter turned 5 in July and it was our first year filing paper work letting our local district know that we are homeschooling.
I am nervous about their visit because we have never talked about homeschooling in depth - in fact it was only last winter that we finally mentioned that was our plan, (even though I had been reading about it and fairly certain about it for a couple of years). My mother-in-law was a science teacher (as was I!) and she has already sent us workbooks and mentioned to me a curriculum that someone else in our family used.
I don't want to be dishonest but I'm also learning that immediate and full disclosure is not always the best way to go either. I was hoping that people that have experiences, good or bad, in sharing with family what their homeschooling philosophy/plans are, and what they found to be the best way to approach conversations like these. I'm trying to think of truthful descriptions that will not trigger a lot of anxiety ... what are kind, respectful ways to begin introducing unconventional ideas to people used to following conventions?
Thanks for any feedback!
Susan
In a week and a half my husband's parents will be visiting us for a long weekend. My daughter turned 5 in July and it was our first year filing paper work letting our local district know that we are homeschooling.
I am nervous about their visit because we have never talked about homeschooling in depth - in fact it was only last winter that we finally mentioned that was our plan, (even though I had been reading about it and fairly certain about it for a couple of years). My mother-in-law was a science teacher (as was I!) and she has already sent us workbooks and mentioned to me a curriculum that someone else in our family used.
I don't want to be dishonest but I'm also learning that immediate and full disclosure is not always the best way to go either. I was hoping that people that have experiences, good or bad, in sharing with family what their homeschooling philosophy/plans are, and what they found to be the best way to approach conversations like these. I'm trying to think of truthful descriptions that will not trigger a lot of anxiety ... what are kind, respectful ways to begin introducing unconventional ideas to people used to following conventions?
Thanks for any feedback!
Susan
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/20/2011 1:40 PM, DaBreeze21 wrote:
see if there were any activities in them that my child might enjoy. Kids
who haven't been forced to do workbooks have the ability to treat them
just like coloring books or puzzle books. If you treat them with that
kind of casual attitude, your child won't pick up on any need to refuse
them any more than any other toy that grandma might offer as a gift.
/Otherwise, my recommendation is that you don't try to convince mil of
anything. Thank her for all expressions of concern - take them as honest
and heart-felt expressions of love for your child. Be as gracious as you
can possibly be. Say "That's an idea I will definitely think more
about." Things like that. Also, say things like, "We're just going to
give this a try." She's VERY young and there is tremendous evidence out
there that delaying academics is useful EVEN for kids who are going to
go to school. Maybe give her David Elkind's book, "The Hurried Child."
It isn't about unschooling and won't freak her out - he is a Harvard
professor - seriously respectable credentials! <G> If you must talk
about unschooling, don't CALL it that - the word itself frightens people
who think unschooled means ignorant. Instead, talk only about
learning...talk about your intention to be a great facilitator of her
learning. Talk about your role in creating a rich and stimulating
environment. Talk about offering her many and varied experiences. My
family members came around to accepting unschooling to various degrees -
after some time spent just figuring out what on earth I was actually
doing with my kids, my mom came to love it.
I brought her into it very gently over a period of years.
-pam
/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My mother-in-law was a science teacher (as was I!) and she has alreadyI would take them with a gracious thank you and I would LOOK at them and
> sent us workbooks and mentioned to me a curriculum that someone else
> in our family used.
see if there were any activities in them that my child might enjoy. Kids
who haven't been forced to do workbooks have the ability to treat them
just like coloring books or puzzle books. If you treat them with that
kind of casual attitude, your child won't pick up on any need to refuse
them any more than any other toy that grandma might offer as a gift.
/Otherwise, my recommendation is that you don't try to convince mil of
anything. Thank her for all expressions of concern - take them as honest
and heart-felt expressions of love for your child. Be as gracious as you
can possibly be. Say "That's an idea I will definitely think more
about." Things like that. Also, say things like, "We're just going to
give this a try." She's VERY young and there is tremendous evidence out
there that delaying academics is useful EVEN for kids who are going to
go to school. Maybe give her David Elkind's book, "The Hurried Child."
It isn't about unschooling and won't freak her out - he is a Harvard
professor - seriously respectable credentials! <G> If you must talk
about unschooling, don't CALL it that - the word itself frightens people
who think unschooled means ignorant. Instead, talk only about
learning...talk about your intention to be a great facilitator of her
learning. Talk about your role in creating a rich and stimulating
environment. Talk about offering her many and varied experiences. My
family members came around to accepting unschooling to various degrees -
after some time spent just figuring out what on earth I was actually
doing with my kids, my mom came to love it.
I brought her into it very gently over a period of years.
-pam
/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colleen
****Maybe give her David Elkind's book, "The Hurried Child."
It isn't about unschooling and won't freak her out - he is a Harvard
professor - seriously respectable credentials! ****
Tufts :-) Dr Elknid was my Intro to Child Study professor at Tufts, and a huge influence on my decision to unschool.
Recently here on this list and on Facebook there was a link to Peter Gray's unschooling survey, and the survey asked about authors and books that have been of influence. The first book that popped into my head was The Hurried Child - I well remember reading it, and listening to Dr Elkind's lectures about pushing children, and the harm that can do.
Somewhat ironic that I can thank an educator of future teachers for leading me and my family to quite the opposite of teaching and school...
This all to say - excellent book, and I totally second Pam's recommendation to check it out and pass it along to interested family members and others :-)
Colleen
It isn't about unschooling and won't freak her out - he is a Harvard
professor - seriously respectable credentials! ****
Tufts :-) Dr Elknid was my Intro to Child Study professor at Tufts, and a huge influence on my decision to unschool.
Recently here on this list and on Facebook there was a link to Peter Gray's unschooling survey, and the survey asked about authors and books that have been of influence. The first book that popped into my head was The Hurried Child - I well remember reading it, and listening to Dr Elkind's lectures about pushing children, and the harm that can do.
Somewhat ironic that I can thank an educator of future teachers for leading me and my family to quite the opposite of teaching and school...
This all to say - excellent book, and I totally second Pam's recommendation to check it out and pass it along to interested family members and others :-)
Colleen
JustSayin
> I don't want to be dishonest but I'm also learning that immediate and full disclosure is not always the best way to go either. I was hoping that people that have experiences, good or bad, in sharing with family what their homeschooling philosophy/plans are, and what they found to be the best way to approach conversations like these. I'm trying to think of truthful descriptions that will not trigger a lot of anxiety ... what are kind, respectful ways to begin introducing unconventional ideas to people used to following conventions?About a year or so after we started unschooling, my Dad and stepmother came down for a short visit. During that visit I had a really lengthy talk with my stepmother about what we were doing (or not doing), about temperaments (my kids' that is), and about how I thought society could benefit from people who are not demnoralized or dehumanized by the schooling process.
>
I was so excited (and quite frankly, surprised), that she seemed to "get it" and share my enthusiasm about what we were doing.
Well fast forward a month or so, and I was talking to her on the phone about something else, and she says "your father and I are really worried about those children" - it took me a minute to figure out she meant MY children. Turns out she didn't "get it" at all. I don't care, because they are not in our lives in any real way, but I was taken aback by this turnaround and it kind of left me at a loss for words. When we next visited them she was trying to force my boys to read books with her, and when they politely declined, she decided they were illiterate (they were/are not, quite the contrary). We got nothing but books from them that next Christmas, which I still laugh about.
I know this isn't exactly helpful. But when I think about whether I would do or say anything different if I had it to do over, I would not. I would be compromising my own principles to claim or imply that we are doing school at home just to make them more comfortable, especially when I am so opposed to that idea.
My family all know (not because I said it, but somehow they know) that I would choose my kids and our commitment to unschooling over staying connected to them (I must confess that my family is not very close to start with; emotionally or geographically). It may not be so easy for someone else to take such a strong stand.
I will say that when I had what I thought was that good talk with my stepmother, I talked about general philosophies, about human nature, about how my kids felt when they were in school (they were in school for a short time), how I felt about my own school experience, and how teaching content is obsolete. I think that's why she couldn't "disagree", I wasn't really saying anything wacky, just a discussion about ideas, really. Only when she thought about it later did she realize what it all meant.
I'd say your best bet is to leave it as general as possible and then just drop it (if that's possible). You may want to have some reference material (web sites, etc.) that you can share with them if they seem receptive and want to learn more about it when they get back home.
I actually created my own small website that had my mission statement, some history about our decision, some quotes, a reading list and an essay that was the tipping point for our move to unschooling. All of it very simple and easy to navigate. That way I could just give my family members/friends the web address and leave it at that ;>
--Melissa
railyuh
If you must talk
My husband has actually brought up unschooling with them (and I was thinking, "NOooo, they're not ready for that! Tell them we're homeschooling!"). But it pretty much went right over their heads and they were still asking questions about how early Josh will have to get up and if he's going to get a backpack and new clothes for school so he can be ready to get to work on his first day, etc. They definitely have pictured a very school-at-home approach and I think their visit will be eye-opening to them (either that or they'll think we took a vacation week while they were here).
I try to remember that her questions are coming from a place of love and concern. She was a special needs preschool teacher for many years so she's already expressed concern over Josh's speech among other things, so when she asks about curriculum and I try to explain our approach she gets worried. She asks lots of questions about the state checking up on us, meeting with a teacher, taking tests, and all the other ways she thought the gov't would be keeping track of homeschoolers. She was surprised to learn that we don't even have to report anything until next year.
With some our acquaintances I've answered some questions by reminding them that he's in Kindergarten so it's a bit different (not that I feel like the later years need a different approach/philosophy, but just that I don't want to explain unschooling to every person we meet and for now that seems to work). I'm not sure that it is the best answer, but it usually makes people stop and relax about it (unless they then say, "Right, kindergarten is mostly about socialization...oh...homeschooling...socialization...homeschooling..."). But I'm just not sure that approach will be very helpful with my mother in law since she was a teacher for so many years. I definitely think unschooling is something we have to ease her into slowly over a number of years and that down the road it will be easier to see how great this has been for our kids and her fears were not realized.
-Annie
> about unschooling, don't CALL it that - the word itself frightens peopleI was thinking of posting a similar question recently and this was very helpful, thanks! My inlaws will be visiting next month and this will be their first visit now that our son is officially "school age" so even though they've known we planned to homeschool for a long time, this is the first time they'll be visiting us during a time when they'll expect us to be "doing school".
> who think unschooled means ignorant. Instead, talk only about
> learning...talk about your intention to be a great facilitator of her
> learning. Talk about your role in creating a rich and stimulating
> environment. Talk about offering her many and varied experiences. My
> family members came around to accepting unschooling to various degrees -
> after some time spent just figuring out what on earth I was actually
> doing with my kids, my mom came to love it.
> I brought her into it very gently over a period of years.
>
> -pam
> /
My husband has actually brought up unschooling with them (and I was thinking, "NOooo, they're not ready for that! Tell them we're homeschooling!"). But it pretty much went right over their heads and they were still asking questions about how early Josh will have to get up and if he's going to get a backpack and new clothes for school so he can be ready to get to work on his first day, etc. They definitely have pictured a very school-at-home approach and I think their visit will be eye-opening to them (either that or they'll think we took a vacation week while they were here).
I try to remember that her questions are coming from a place of love and concern. She was a special needs preschool teacher for many years so she's already expressed concern over Josh's speech among other things, so when she asks about curriculum and I try to explain our approach she gets worried. She asks lots of questions about the state checking up on us, meeting with a teacher, taking tests, and all the other ways she thought the gov't would be keeping track of homeschoolers. She was surprised to learn that we don't even have to report anything until next year.
With some our acquaintances I've answered some questions by reminding them that he's in Kindergarten so it's a bit different (not that I feel like the later years need a different approach/philosophy, but just that I don't want to explain unschooling to every person we meet and for now that seems to work). I'm not sure that it is the best answer, but it usually makes people stop and relax about it (unless they then say, "Right, kindergarten is mostly about socialization...oh...homeschooling...socialization...homeschooling..."). But I'm just not sure that approach will be very helpful with my mother in law since she was a teacher for so many years. I definitely think unschooling is something we have to ease her into slowly over a number of years and that down the road it will be easier to see how great this has been for our kids and her fears were not realized.
-Annie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 21, 2011, at 8:29 AM, railyuh wrote:
vacation from your normal routine. That will avert any help with
"lessons" during the week.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> either that or they'll think we took a vacation week while they wereDon't hesitate to say exactly that. You will essentially be on
> here
vacation from your normal routine. That will avert any help with
"lessons" during the week.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'd say your best bet is to leave it as general as possible and then just drop it (if that's possible). You may want to have some reference material (web sites, etc.) that you can share with them if they seem receptive and want to learn more about it when they get back home. -=-
You might want to say, when and if a relative turns harsh, "If you want to read more about it, I'd be glad to discuss it with you afterwards." It puts a condition on further discussion, and if you specify the book or article you want them to read, and hand it to them, they will either read that and think about it on their own time, or you can very politely refuse to discuss it any further.
The fact is that you both know about school and schooling, but you're the only one who knows about alternatives, homeschooling and unschooling. So they're not really qualified to discuss it.
-=-I actually created my own small website that had my mission statement, some history about our decision, some quotes, a reading list and an essay that was the tipping point for our move to unschooling. All of it very simple and easy to navigate. That way I could just give my family members/friends the web address and leave it at that ;> -=-
Melissa, do you still have it? Maybe people could lift your idea. :-)
This might possibly help in some cases, at least for the unschooling moms to read, but maybe the descriptions of different kinds of home schooling will help.
http://sandradodd.com/thoughts
Here's one describing unschooling:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/allkinds
This might help, or freak them out; depends on the person.
http://SandraDodd.com/joy
That first link has this, which I didn't write:
From a New Zealand homeschooling page:
What are some of the benefits of homeschooling for children?
* A more relaxed lifestyle.
* Positive socialisation
* No peer group pressure
* Full interaction with the community
* Richer experience with the community
* Richer experience of family
* Closer sibling relationships
* Independent thinking
* Individually designed education
* Learning at their own pace
* Time to follow their own interests
* Time to think
* Time to observe
* Time to imagine
* Time to know themselves
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You might want to say, when and if a relative turns harsh, "If you want to read more about it, I'd be glad to discuss it with you afterwards." It puts a condition on further discussion, and if you specify the book or article you want them to read, and hand it to them, they will either read that and think about it on their own time, or you can very politely refuse to discuss it any further.
The fact is that you both know about school and schooling, but you're the only one who knows about alternatives, homeschooling and unschooling. So they're not really qualified to discuss it.
-=-I actually created my own small website that had my mission statement, some history about our decision, some quotes, a reading list and an essay that was the tipping point for our move to unschooling. All of it very simple and easy to navigate. That way I could just give my family members/friends the web address and leave it at that ;> -=-
Melissa, do you still have it? Maybe people could lift your idea. :-)
This might possibly help in some cases, at least for the unschooling moms to read, but maybe the descriptions of different kinds of home schooling will help.
http://sandradodd.com/thoughts
Here's one describing unschooling:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/allkinds
This might help, or freak them out; depends on the person.
http://SandraDodd.com/joy
That first link has this, which I didn't write:
From a New Zealand homeschooling page:
What are some of the benefits of homeschooling for children?
* A more relaxed lifestyle.
* Positive socialisation
* No peer group pressure
* Full interaction with the community
* Richer experience with the community
* Richer experience of family
* Closer sibling relationships
* Independent thinking
* Individually designed education
* Learning at their own pace
* Time to follow their own interests
* Time to think
* Time to observe
* Time to imagine
* Time to know themselves
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-They definitely have pictured a very school-at-home approach and I think their visit will be eye-opening to them (either that or they'll think we took a vacation week while they were here). -=-
It's okay if their impression is that way.
Another tool to use is to say "We're trying this for now, and if it stops working we can put them back in school." And then smile big. Offer food. Change the subject.
If they insist on talking about school, get them to talk about their own school memories--what they liked best, what they didn't like, how many kids were in their classes, whether the teachers used to hit, what happened if they got in trouble. Not to any great point, just to let them tell school stories to your kids. It will be something for your kids to remember, and meanwhile the grandparents might come across some things they don't want their grandkids to experience, or that they don't even want to tell (and if you never know that, it will still make them think).
Then, if they say "That's the way it should be!" you can point out that that is not the way it is now. Schools have changed. Laws have changed. The makeup of the culture has changed. It will never be the 1960's or 1950's or 1940's again, and in many ways that's wonderful.
If they talk about geography books or maps or the library, show them google. School textbooks can be six or seven years old. Google tends to be up to date. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's okay if their impression is that way.
Another tool to use is to say "We're trying this for now, and if it stops working we can put them back in school." And then smile big. Offer food. Change the subject.
If they insist on talking about school, get them to talk about their own school memories--what they liked best, what they didn't like, how many kids were in their classes, whether the teachers used to hit, what happened if they got in trouble. Not to any great point, just to let them tell school stories to your kids. It will be something for your kids to remember, and meanwhile the grandparents might come across some things they don't want their grandkids to experience, or that they don't even want to tell (and if you never know that, it will still make them think).
Then, if they say "That's the way it should be!" you can point out that that is not the way it is now. Schools have changed. Laws have changed. The makeup of the culture has changed. It will never be the 1960's or 1950's or 1940's again, and in many ways that's wonderful.
If they talk about geography books or maps or the library, show them google. School textbooks can be six or seven years old. Google tends to be up to date. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hamsder clan
Our immediate family pretty much gets what we're doing... they may have
occasional misgivings, but they recognize that it's our decision and are
pretty wonderful about focusing on enjoying our kids when they visit. When
they have particular concerns, they address them to my husband and/or me,
not our children.
We just had a short visit from my Aunts, who we almost never see (this is
the second time since we had kids, the first when they were not babies). They
know we are homeschooling, but I felt no need to go into details with them,
especially since one of them has been involved in public schools as a
teacher and administrator her whole life.
My biggest advice before that sort of visit? Don't clean too much! It may
sound odd, but we had all kinds of projects out all over the house and that
helped them feel comfortable about what we were doing without ever
discussing it explicitly.
My daughter (Larkin, 6) has been very into working on Sudoku recently, and
my son (Finn, 4) has been doing complicated dot-to-dots by the dozen. We had
a pile of print-outs that they had been working on set up at a table in the
living room and my Aunt was immediately drawn to them: "Ooooh-- is this your
school work for today?" Larkin replied: "We don't do school. These are some
of the fun number puzzles Jenny found for me." Finn: "Look! This dot-to-dot
goes up to 150!"
There were paper airplanes all over the house from Finn's recent
fascination. They sparked all kinds of conversations between him and my
aunts about what made some models more or less aerodynamic and his plans for
new folding designs.
Larkin (who is not reading but likes to write when someone tells her what
letters come next) wanted to draw a picture for each of the Aunts and
presented them in envelopes with a short note when they arrived.
There are arts and crafts projects all over the walls and a table upstairs
where there is always something in progress.
My aunts brought some strong magnets as a gift (my parents have a set at
their house and let them know how much the kids enjoy them when visiting).
Larkin and Finn set about finding out which American and Canadian coins are
made with Iron and discovered that for some coins it depends on the year
they were made. They made a project of figuring out where all the nails
underneath the kitchen floor are.
Larkin showed them all the seed they've been gathering from the garden to
save for planting next year-- all labeled in her handwriting.
Finn demonstrated his prowess on his favorite Wii game-- Ben 10: Protector
of Earth.
We only had one evening and morning with them, but my Aunts left assuring me
that I was "doing very well teaching the children." I could have bristled
and tried to communicate how what we're doing is different, but I chose to
go with, "Thank you. Have a wonderful trip home!"
While it was unintentional on my part this time, I'll probably remember this
visit the next time we have similar company. Strewing some of the more
obviously and traditionally educational activities the kids have been
enjoying will set most peoples mind at ease and avoid awkward and
potentially contentious conversations. :)
jenny
that people that have experiences, good or bad, in sharing with family what
their >homeschooling philosophy/plans are, and what they found to be the
best way to approach conversations like >these.
occasional misgivings, but they recognize that it's our decision and are
pretty wonderful about focusing on enjoying our kids when they visit. When
they have particular concerns, they address them to my husband and/or me,
not our children.
We just had a short visit from my Aunts, who we almost never see (this is
the second time since we had kids, the first when they were not babies). They
know we are homeschooling, but I felt no need to go into details with them,
especially since one of them has been involved in public schools as a
teacher and administrator her whole life.
My biggest advice before that sort of visit? Don't clean too much! It may
sound odd, but we had all kinds of projects out all over the house and that
helped them feel comfortable about what we were doing without ever
discussing it explicitly.
My daughter (Larkin, 6) has been very into working on Sudoku recently, and
my son (Finn, 4) has been doing complicated dot-to-dots by the dozen. We had
a pile of print-outs that they had been working on set up at a table in the
living room and my Aunt was immediately drawn to them: "Ooooh-- is this your
school work for today?" Larkin replied: "We don't do school. These are some
of the fun number puzzles Jenny found for me." Finn: "Look! This dot-to-dot
goes up to 150!"
There were paper airplanes all over the house from Finn's recent
fascination. They sparked all kinds of conversations between him and my
aunts about what made some models more or less aerodynamic and his plans for
new folding designs.
Larkin (who is not reading but likes to write when someone tells her what
letters come next) wanted to draw a picture for each of the Aunts and
presented them in envelopes with a short note when they arrived.
There are arts and crafts projects all over the walls and a table upstairs
where there is always something in progress.
My aunts brought some strong magnets as a gift (my parents have a set at
their house and let them know how much the kids enjoy them when visiting).
Larkin and Finn set about finding out which American and Canadian coins are
made with Iron and discovered that for some coins it depends on the year
they were made. They made a project of figuring out where all the nails
underneath the kitchen floor are.
Larkin showed them all the seed they've been gathering from the garden to
save for planting next year-- all labeled in her handwriting.
Finn demonstrated his prowess on his favorite Wii game-- Ben 10: Protector
of Earth.
We only had one evening and morning with them, but my Aunts left assuring me
that I was "doing very well teaching the children." I could have bristled
and tried to communicate how what we're doing is different, but I chose to
go with, "Thank you. Have a wonderful trip home!"
While it was unintentional on my part this time, I'll probably remember this
visit the next time we have similar company. Strewing some of the more
obviously and traditionally educational activities the kids have been
enjoying will set most peoples mind at ease and avoid awkward and
potentially contentious conversations. :)
jenny
> I don't want to be dishonest but I'm also learning that immediate andfull disclosure is not always the best >way to go either. I was hoping
that people that have experiences, good or bad, in sharing with family what
their >homeschooling philosophy/plans are, and what they found to be the
best way to approach conversations like >these.
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
Meredith
hamsder clan <hamsder@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>Strewing some of the moreIn the longer term, if relatives ask for gift ideas, educational stuff can make for good requests - microscopes and telescopes, bulk art supplies, museum memberships, magazine or book club subscriptions, a skeleton or "visible man" kit, a set of snap circuits or a fancy marble-run... those sorts of things can be handy to have around the house as well as reassuring to relatives. We may not use our microscope more than a couple times a year, but those times I'm glad to have one (courtesy of grandma).
> obviously and traditionally educational activities the kids have been
> enjoying will set most peoples mind at ease and avoid awkward and
> potentially contentious conversations. :)
---Meredith
JustSayin
>Melissa, do you still have it? Maybe people could lift your idea. :-)I am sorry to say that I missed the renewal date and they deleted all my pages. It was awesome, too, especially my mission statement :<
>
Lesson learned, now I make copies of all my web pages (and try not to miss a renewal). If I can re-create it (which I started to do with another hosting company) I'll share the link it here.
--Melissa
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
aldq75
Did you check the Wayback Machine to see if it had been archived? Or cached in Google?
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Andrea Q
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], "JustSayin" <mfcappella@...> wrote:
>
> >Melissa, do you still have it? Maybe people could lift your idea. :-)
> >
>
> I am sorry to say that I missed the renewal date and they deleted all my pages. It was awesome, too, especially my mission statement :<
>
> Lesson learned, now I make copies of all my web pages (and try not to miss a renewal). If I can re-create it (which I started to do with another hosting company) I'll share the link it here.
>
> --Melissa
>
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@> wrote:
> >
> >
>
JustSayin
This topic really got me thinking - how will people start to think differently if we all (and I am guilty of it at times too) just fake it out and say we're homeschooling (vs unschooling) or if we make sure we have schooly-looking things laying around just to placate people?
I guess generally our goal is just to live a happy life, and hopefully pass that happy life expectation on to our kids, but how will people who aren't understanding this concept already ever get the thought in their heads that there might be another way to go if we don't tell them?
We said in another thread (about lying) that we should "plant a seed" with conversation. Why not plant a seed about what we see as such an obvious thing - that the idea of school in it's traditional form is essentially obsolete and we are clinging to it as a society because it's a monster that's so huge we don't know how to make it go away (or evolve)? That's just my assessment, of course, but we all have reasons for coming to unschooling, and probably isn't because we think traditional school is where we want our children to be.
If someone had mentioned unschooling to me when my kids were babies, it is very possible they never would have gone to school. I wonder how many people are out there are like me, and they are just going through the motions, maybe thinking it doesn't feel right to buy into this whole school thing, but not knowing what else to do.
I absolutely love the definition "we live life as though school didn't exist". It's perfect. I'm going to try that one out next time someone quizzes me about why my kids aren't in school.
I sort of think we should stop hiding it or trying to make it seem like it's just school but different, and make it sound like it's an obvious next step in societal evolution.
--Melissa
I guess generally our goal is just to live a happy life, and hopefully pass that happy life expectation on to our kids, but how will people who aren't understanding this concept already ever get the thought in their heads that there might be another way to go if we don't tell them?
We said in another thread (about lying) that we should "plant a seed" with conversation. Why not plant a seed about what we see as such an obvious thing - that the idea of school in it's traditional form is essentially obsolete and we are clinging to it as a society because it's a monster that's so huge we don't know how to make it go away (or evolve)? That's just my assessment, of course, but we all have reasons for coming to unschooling, and probably isn't because we think traditional school is where we want our children to be.
If someone had mentioned unschooling to me when my kids were babies, it is very possible they never would have gone to school. I wonder how many people are out there are like me, and they are just going through the motions, maybe thinking it doesn't feel right to buy into this whole school thing, but not knowing what else to do.
I absolutely love the definition "we live life as though school didn't exist". It's perfect. I'm going to try that one out next time someone quizzes me about why my kids aren't in school.
I sort of think we should stop hiding it or trying to make it seem like it's just school but different, and make it sound like it's an obvious next step in societal evolution.
--Melissa
--- In [email protected], hamsder clan <hamsder@...> wrote:
>
>We only had one evening and morning with them, but my Aunts left assuring me
that I was "doing very well teaching the children." I could have bristled
and tried to communicate how what we're doing is different, but I chose to
go with, "Thank you. Have a wonderful trip home!"
chris ester
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:46 PM, JustSayin <mfcappella@...> wrote:
think differently. I spent a dozen years tilting at windmills trying to
change the world (or at least a small corner of it) and now am content to
take care of my little corner and the relatively small number of friends and
family that I am connected with.
The people who are close to me know that we unschool. Some have their
doubts, but we have basically agreed to disagree. I don't attempt to
placate relatives that we do not see often (not in my nature) or even the
few that we do see more often. I fulfill my obligations to the state so
that I can 'educate' my children without legal complications. We
specifically did not move to a particular state because of the homeschool
laws.
We live and thrive and have more joy than not. If people ask, I tell them
how we live and learn and find happiness most days. Now that my kids are
adolescents and so amazing, people have fewer doubts. I decided a while ago
that their doubts were their issue. My husband and I spent lots of time
processing and working through our own.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **Frankly, for me, the short answer is that I do not care if people start to
>
>
> ***This topic really got me thinking - how will people start to think
> differently if we all (and I am guilty of it at times too) just fake it out
> and say we're homeschooling (vs unschooling) or if we make sure we have
> schooly-looking things laying around just to placate people? ****
>
think differently. I spent a dozen years tilting at windmills trying to
change the world (or at least a small corner of it) and now am content to
take care of my little corner and the relatively small number of friends and
family that I am connected with.
The people who are close to me know that we unschool. Some have their
doubts, but we have basically agreed to disagree. I don't attempt to
placate relatives that we do not see often (not in my nature) or even the
few that we do see more often. I fulfill my obligations to the state so
that I can 'educate' my children without legal complications. We
specifically did not move to a particular state because of the homeschool
laws.
We live and thrive and have more joy than not. If people ask, I tell them
how we live and learn and find happiness most days. Now that my kids are
adolescents and so amazing, people have fewer doubts. I decided a while ago
that their doubts were their issue. My husband and I spent lots of time
processing and working through our own.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 23, 2011, at 12:46 PM, JustSayin wrote:
they're not ready for? Deciding what they need to know? Deciding
what's best for them and their families? Answering questions they
haven't and may never ask?
Is your goal creating a peaceful, joyful nest for your family to
unschooling in? Or is it to change the world? People can have two big
goals, but at times the two goals will clash, calling for a solution
that moves away from one and towards the other.
hopes) decision based on need in that particular situation.
It's unfortunate, but people will cling to old ideas until things get
pretty bad. It's not because they don't see the bad parts but because
they believe the familiar way will get them where they want to go. It
takes something big to move the middle of the mass out of the current
middle. Or it takes the slow build up of confidence in an alternative
idea.
Most parents' (that I interact with) goal is to get their kids into
college or into a secure job. They also want kids who've been taught
the right set of values. Unschooling doesn't look like it will do
that. Unschooling looks like neglect, or the parents have a very
different set of values and goals.
Just as kids learn naturally by gathering bits and pieces about, say,
Ceasar, and building a framework about him and about Rome and so on,
so society will learn about unschooling. When I first started
homeschooling 15 years ago, people would ask "Is that legal?" 15 years
later, the more common reaction was "Oh, my cousin does that."
Unschooling is filtering out into society. People are encountering it
here and there. As they become more comfortable with unschooling and
with the idea that maybe all this pressure to get into college isn't
what it 's all about, then they'll maybe look at it.
But it can take several generations before there's enough shift in
what they want, enough encounter with alternatives that are more
familiar and feeling more comfortable that they'll be able to really
start looking into it.
their personal savior if people don't tell them?
*That* works really well if you don't want the message, doesn't it?
Conservative Christians have actually done pretty well with a method
that's very off putting because it offers what many people are already
looking for: security and confidence that someone has all the right
answers and can tell them.
IT seems like there are more people questioning the rush to the
security of a white picket fence life. But I think far more people are
questioning the current schooling approach to getting there than they
are the white picket fence. And they aren't going to look at
unschooling until they start questioning their goal.
A seed makes someone go "Huh, that's interesting." Or makes someone
mad, but it sticks with them ;-)
If people are hit with a conclusion they don't have the build up for,
their most likely reaction is to raise the defenses to protect the
ideas that they're comfortable with, that soothe the worries they have.
may not exist? How much negative feelings about unschooling are you
willing to create to get those seeds to those few people who won't go
out looking for ideas, but need the ideas to fall into their laps?
"We" aren't deciding what people should do. If you're reading that in
what people are writing, it will help to stop doing that! I hope
people will question! But I hope people will give thought to not only
what people here are saying but why. Dig in deep. What goals are
people working towards? And why do some ways work towards that and
some away?
We're here to help people have more joyful, peaceful, learning filled
families. Standing up and making other people uncomfortable to force
your agenda on them can interfere with that. That's not a "And that's
why you shouldn't do it." It's information to help people make better
decisions. Just as it's advised unschoolers give to their kids.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> how will people start to think differently if we all (and I amSo you think people learn best by other people forcing lessons on them
> guilty of it at times too) just fake it out
they're not ready for? Deciding what they need to know? Deciding
what's best for them and their families? Answering questions they
haven't and may never ask?
Is your goal creating a peaceful, joyful nest for your family to
unschooling in? Or is it to change the world? People can have two big
goals, but at times the two goals will clash, calling for a solution
that moves away from one and towards the other.
> and say we're homeschooling (vs unschooling) or if we make sure we"We" aren't saying anything. It's an individual thoughtfully made (one
> have schooly-looking things laying around just to placate people?
hopes) decision based on need in that particular situation.
It's unfortunate, but people will cling to old ideas until things get
pretty bad. It's not because they don't see the bad parts but because
they believe the familiar way will get them where they want to go. It
takes something big to move the middle of the mass out of the current
middle. Or it takes the slow build up of confidence in an alternative
idea.
Most parents' (that I interact with) goal is to get their kids into
college or into a secure job. They also want kids who've been taught
the right set of values. Unschooling doesn't look like it will do
that. Unschooling looks like neglect, or the parents have a very
different set of values and goals.
Just as kids learn naturally by gathering bits and pieces about, say,
Ceasar, and building a framework about him and about Rome and so on,
so society will learn about unschooling. When I first started
homeschooling 15 years ago, people would ask "Is that legal?" 15 years
later, the more common reaction was "Oh, my cousin does that."
Unschooling is filtering out into society. People are encountering it
here and there. As they become more comfortable with unschooling and
with the idea that maybe all this pressure to get into college isn't
what it 's all about, then they'll maybe look at it.
But it can take several generations before there's enough shift in
what they want, enough encounter with alternatives that are more
familiar and feeling more comfortable that they'll be able to really
start looking into it.
> how will people who aren't understanding this concept already everHow will people ever get the thought in their heads that Jesus is
> get the thought in their heads that there might be another way to go
> if we don't tell them?
their personal savior if people don't tell them?
*That* works really well if you don't want the message, doesn't it?
Conservative Christians have actually done pretty well with a method
that's very off putting because it offers what many people are already
looking for: security and confidence that someone has all the right
answers and can tell them.
IT seems like there are more people questioning the rush to the
security of a white picket fence life. But I think far more people are
questioning the current schooling approach to getting there than they
are the white picket fence. And they aren't going to look at
unschooling until they start questioning their goal.
> the idea of school in it's traditional form is essentially obsoleteThat's not a seed. That's a conclusion you're forcing on someone.
> and we are clinging to it as a society because it's a monster that's
> so huge we don't know how to make it go away (or evolve)?
A seed makes someone go "Huh, that's interesting." Or makes someone
mad, but it sticks with them ;-)
If people are hit with a conclusion they don't have the build up for,
their most likely reaction is to raise the defenses to protect the
ideas that they're comfortable with, that soothe the worries they have.
> If someone had mentioned unschooling to me when my kids were babies,How many people's discomfort is worth it to get to people who may or
> it is very possible they never would have gone to school. I wonder
> how many people are out there are like me, and they are just going
> through the motions, maybe thinking it doesn't feel right to buy
> into this whole school thing, but not knowing what else to do.
may not exist? How much negative feelings about unschooling are you
willing to create to get those seeds to those few people who won't go
out looking for ideas, but need the ideas to fall into their laps?
> I sort of think we should stop hiding it or trying to make it seemYou get to do whatever you think is best for your own goals.
> like it's just school but differen
"We" aren't deciding what people should do. If you're reading that in
what people are writing, it will help to stop doing that! I hope
people will question! But I hope people will give thought to not only
what people here are saying but why. Dig in deep. What goals are
people working towards? And why do some ways work towards that and
some away?
We're here to help people have more joyful, peaceful, learning filled
families. Standing up and making other people uncomfortable to force
your agenda on them can interfere with that. That's not a "And that's
why you shouldn't do it." It's information to help people make better
decisions. Just as it's advised unschoolers give to their kids.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Meredith
"JustSayin" <mfcappella@...> wrote:
It's not placating, its understanding how people learn new ideas.
Learning happens best when it flows from something a person already knows or understands. Telling someone who's very invested in school about unschooling isn't going to produce a lot of learning. Just saying "homeschool" is going to be a shock and the most you can expect is to shake up that person's stereotypical image of "homeschooler" - but even that's a good thing! The more people who know that homeschooling, much less unschooling, is possible and more-or-less normal (as opposed to something only freaky people do) the more families will have One More Option in their lives. That's good.
In my experience, the vast majority of Bad information about unschooling comes from people who've heard about it but don't really get it. I honestly believe that more people are pushed away from unschooling by bad information, information like "they just let their kids do anything" than any other reason - sadly, some people actually try it, too, thinking it sounds really liberating and, gosh, some people seem to make it work.
But the thing is, I value personal happiness so a seed about liking my kid was useful to me. It grew from something I already understood. If I valued success or owning up to responsibilities more, that seed wouldn't have had as much of a chance. If you say "this is unschooling" to someone who thinks a child playing video games is rotting his brain, that's not a see which is going to grow.
---Meredith
>*****************
> This topic really got me thinking - how will people start to think differently if we all (and I am guilty of it at times too) just fake it out and say we're homeschooling (vs unschooling) or if we make sure we have schooly-looking things laying around just to placate people?
It's not placating, its understanding how people learn new ideas.
Learning happens best when it flows from something a person already knows or understands. Telling someone who's very invested in school about unschooling isn't going to produce a lot of learning. Just saying "homeschool" is going to be a shock and the most you can expect is to shake up that person's stereotypical image of "homeschooler" - but even that's a good thing! The more people who know that homeschooling, much less unschooling, is possible and more-or-less normal (as opposed to something only freaky people do) the more families will have One More Option in their lives. That's good.
>> I guess generally our goal is just to live a happy life, and hopefully pass that happy life expectation on to our kids, but how will people who aren't understanding this concept already ever get the thought in their heads that there might be another way to go if we don't tell them?*******************
In my experience, the vast majority of Bad information about unschooling comes from people who've heard about it but don't really get it. I honestly believe that more people are pushed away from unschooling by bad information, information like "they just let their kids do anything" than any other reason - sadly, some people actually try it, too, thinking it sounds really liberating and, gosh, some people seem to make it work.
>>Why not plant a seed about what we see as such an obvious thing...A homeschooling mom planted a tiny little seed in my mind more than twenty years ago, she said: "I like my kid, I like being around him". I don't know if they were home or unschooling, really, but that one sentence gave me enough hope that it was possible for parents to go on liking their kids, enjoying parenting, to hunt around for other parents who had found that same thing and then figure out what they were doing. In between that sentence and finding the people who were actually making unschooling work in real life, I heard a whole lot about "unschooling" which pushed me away. I met parents who were "unschooling" babies and had wild ideas about freedom and no personal experience and parents who neglected their kids in the name of personal liberation until those kids demanded to go to school. I sometimes wonder if I hadn't heard about unschooling from people with half-baked ideas if I'd have found the Good information sooner - because for awhile I avoided reading anything about unschooling. I'd met Those people and didn't want their lives.
But the thing is, I value personal happiness so a seed about liking my kid was useful to me. It grew from something I already understood. If I valued success or owning up to responsibilities more, that seed wouldn't have had as much of a chance. If you say "this is unschooling" to someone who thinks a child playing video games is rotting his brain, that's not a see which is going to grow.
---Meredith
DaBreeze21
Thanks for all the great ideas, experiences, books, etc. It is helping me to think in advance about things. Of course, you can never really know for sure how things will unfold but preparation never hurt!
I actually wouldn't be surprised if nothing was really said to me, but it occured to me that my husband is more likely to be questioned about how things are going/what exactly we are doing when I'm not around (which there will be at least one time). The good news is that this idea has spurred some conversation between us.
I also have found some good articles online about homeschooling kindergarten which are supportive of what we are doing without mentioning unschooling.
I had a thought today and wanted to get some input on it. I was thinking it might be a good idea to be more proactive about things and write an email to my in-laws (and my own parents too) kind of describing things we've been doing and learning together and maybe even include some of those articles. Any reactions on whether this might be a good idea or not?
Thanks again!
Susan
I actually wouldn't be surprised if nothing was really said to me, but it occured to me that my husband is more likely to be questioned about how things are going/what exactly we are doing when I'm not around (which there will be at least one time). The good news is that this idea has spurred some conversation between us.
I also have found some good articles online about homeschooling kindergarten which are supportive of what we are doing without mentioning unschooling.
I had a thought today and wanted to get some input on it. I was thinking it might be a good idea to be more proactive about things and write an email to my in-laws (and my own parents too) kind of describing things we've been doing and learning together and maybe even include some of those articles. Any reactions on whether this might be a good idea or not?
Thanks again!
Susan
Meredith
"DaBreeze21" <susanmay15@...> wrote:
Even if you don't include the articles, its a good idea to set them up with topics of conversation for the Kids. A lot of adults don't really know what to say other than "do you like school?" and a few other related questions. So giving them conversation starters is a big help! In that vein, don't limit yourself to things that look like "learning experiences" - let them know what the kids enjoy. It helps with planning day trips, too.
---Meredith
>I was thinking it might be a good idea to be more proactive about things and write an email to my in-laws (and my own parents too) kind of describing things we've been doing and learning together and maybe even include some of those articles.****************
Even if you don't include the articles, its a good idea to set them up with topics of conversation for the Kids. A lot of adults don't really know what to say other than "do you like school?" and a few other related questions. So giving them conversation starters is a big help! In that vein, don't limit yourself to things that look like "learning experiences" - let them know what the kids enjoy. It helps with planning day trips, too.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-Of course, you can never really know for sure how things will unfold but preparation never hurt!-=-
In the world of unschooling, sometimes too much preparation can hurt.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the world of unschooling, sometimes too much preparation can hurt.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emstrength3
>How about a blog? You can set one up really easily on blogger and even set it to private so that only people you invite can see it. Then you can use it more as a way to let family members and friends know what things you are doing in your lives. Maybe your situation is different, but for me, if I were sending an email to my parents about what we are doing, with homeschooling articles, etc. I would be feeling defensive already. I'd be primed for them to respond with an argument and ready with a response back. On the other hand, putting up some pictures of art projects and day trips and snuggling on the couch reading is something any grandparent can enjoy. You can post about all the things your child is learning without ever mentioning unschooling. Then if they ever question you about "schooling," ask if they have read the blog and remind them of all the learning that has been happening.
> I had a thought today and wanted to get some input on it. I was thinking it might be a good idea to be more proactive about things and write an email to my in-laws (and my own parents too) kind of describing things we've been doing and learning together and maybe even include some of those articles. Any reactions on whether this might be a good idea or not?=======
Emily
Sandra Dodd
-=-How about a blog? You can set one up really easily on blogger and even set it to private so that only people you invite can see it. Then you can use it more as a way to let family members and friends know what things you are doing in your lives. -=-
You could document the best parts of the visit, too! It can reinforce the kinds of things you think would be cool to do again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You could document the best parts of the visit, too! It can reinforce the kinds of things you think would be cool to do again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amylouise
A blog is a great idea! My son and I just started homeschooling and I didn't realize that blogs could be semi-private. We could set it up to add to, as co-bloggers and can share it with grandparents, friends and whomever we fancy. Thank you for the great idea, my wheels are just turning! He loves photography, this will be so fun.
Sincerely,
Amylouise 'Lou'
Wife to Mark, Mama to Lucas and Leo, Pack Leader to our Husky dog, Timba, and Humble Servant to our four cats, Data, Geordi, Mowmow and Buddy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sincerely,
Amylouise 'Lou'
Wife to Mark, Mama to Lucas and Leo, Pack Leader to our Husky dog, Timba, and Humble Servant to our four cats, Data, Geordi, Mowmow and Buddy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"emstrength3" <emstrength@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>> How about a blog?Over time, too, you could add links to articles and websites in the side-bar and ease them in to some other ideas that way, without being confrontational.
---Meredith
fbyrem
That was a very helpful reply!
When we first ventured into unschooling, there were three public school teachers in our family, and one, a college professor. They already knew everything, so 'unschooling' was a dirty word to them.
Eventually, I learned to navigate around their questions, but in the beginning, it was horrible!
I believe Pam has a great idea here....go with the flow....make use of what you can....and make the 'enemy' a part of the solution.
I say that in jest, because the only 'enemy' is ourselves. It's all in the way we see the world.
I spoke before the school board, picketed for 'choice' in education, but at the time, I was really MAD! Probably did more harm than good. But I did what I knew to do at the time, and don't regret it.
Oh, the stories I could tell.....family/public school educators/etc.....
But I would have loved to have heard Pam's reply several years ago! If I weren't so intimidated, I would have picked up on the issues brought to surface here.
When we first ventured into unschooling, there were three public school teachers in our family, and one, a college professor. They already knew everything, so 'unschooling' was a dirty word to them.
Eventually, I learned to navigate around their questions, but in the beginning, it was horrible!
I believe Pam has a great idea here....go with the flow....make use of what you can....and make the 'enemy' a part of the solution.
I say that in jest, because the only 'enemy' is ourselves. It's all in the way we see the world.
I spoke before the school board, picketed for 'choice' in education, but at the time, I was really MAD! Probably did more harm than good. But I did what I knew to do at the time, and don't regret it.
Oh, the stories I could tell.....family/public school educators/etc.....
But I would have loved to have heard Pam's reply several years ago! If I weren't so intimidated, I would have picked up on the issues brought to surface here.
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/20/2011 1:40 PM, DaBreeze21 wrote:
> > My mother-in-law was a science teacher (as was I!) and she has already
> > sent us workbooks and mentioned to me a curriculum that someone else
> > in our family used.
>
> I would take them with a gracious thank you and I would LOOK at them and
> see if there were any activities in them that my child might enjoy. Kids
> who haven't been forced to do workbooks have the ability to treat them
> just like coloring books or puzzle books. If you treat them with that
> kind of casual attitude, your child won't pick up on any need to refuse
> them any more than any other toy that grandma might offer as a gift.
>
> /Otherwise, my recommendation is that you don't try to convince mil of
> anything. Thank her for all expressions of concern - take them as honest
> and heart-felt expressions of love for your child. Be as gracious as you
> can possibly be. Say "That's an idea I will definitely think more
> about." Things like that. Also, say things like, "We're just going to
> give this a try." She's VERY young and there is tremendous evidence out
> there that delaying academics is useful EVEN for kids who are going to
> go to school. Maybe give her David Elkind's book, "The Hurried Child."
> It isn't about unschooling and won't freak her out - he is a Harvard
> professor - seriously respectable credentials! <G> If you must talk
> about unschooling, don't CALL it that - the word itself frightens people
> who think unschooled means ignorant. Instead, talk only about
> learning...talk about your intention to be a great facilitator of her
> learning. Talk about your role in creating a rich and stimulating
> environment. Talk about offering her many and varied experiences. My
> family members came around to accepting unschooling to various degrees -
> after some time spent just figuring out what on earth I was actually
> doing with my kids, my mom came to love it.
> I brought her into it very gently over a period of years.
>
> -pam
> /
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>