Response to 'poor son' statement
fbyrem
I can't remember (or find) the post that referred to my son as 'your poor son'....but....
You can rest assured that he is in no way 'poor'. He has a rich life, trusts us as parents, and is leaps and bounds ahead of his peers in gaming, is noticeably a 'leader of the pack' in other arenas, and has a rich social life.
There is not a decision made in this household without his approval. As I stated before, he has been my greatest teacher in life. Because my heart listened to his heart.
It was *his* decision (of which I approved) that he not go on ADHD meds, because when approached with that option, he said 'no thanks, I like who I am'.
Could I have done a better job? Damn straight. But I did the best I could with what I had to work with, and he is the most amazing child.
Even through all the struggles and difficulties, we managed to raise a fine young man, who is considerate, compassionate, and still a 'teen' in every sense of the word.
Even strangers comment on his politeness and intelligence.
So, please do not think my child is 'poor'. I can understand why (from re-reading my posts) that that was the impression I left. But I can't 'ride off into the sunset' without having corrected that misunderstanding.
You can rest assured that he is in no way 'poor'. He has a rich life, trusts us as parents, and is leaps and bounds ahead of his peers in gaming, is noticeably a 'leader of the pack' in other arenas, and has a rich social life.
There is not a decision made in this household without his approval. As I stated before, he has been my greatest teacher in life. Because my heart listened to his heart.
It was *his* decision (of which I approved) that he not go on ADHD meds, because when approached with that option, he said 'no thanks, I like who I am'.
Could I have done a better job? Damn straight. But I did the best I could with what I had to work with, and he is the most amazing child.
Even through all the struggles and difficulties, we managed to raise a fine young man, who is considerate, compassionate, and still a 'teen' in every sense of the word.
Even strangers comment on his politeness and intelligence.
So, please do not think my child is 'poor'. I can understand why (from re-reading my posts) that that was the impression I left. But I can't 'ride off into the sunset' without having corrected that misunderstanding.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Even through all the struggles and difficulties, we managed to raise a fine young man, who is considerate, compassionate, and still a 'teen' in every sense of the word.-=-
My youngest is 19. She'll be 20 in early November.
My kids were teens from the age of 13 through 19, because the names of the years ended in "-teen." It's something that only exists in English-speaking countries, to consider a 12 year old to be in a different category from a thirteen year old.
I'm guessing that by "a 'teen' in ever sense of the word" you're expecting us to have a vision in our heads of how teens are, must be, should be.
Perhaps the intention was to suggest that there's no difference between a teen who has never been schooled and one who has.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My youngest is 19. She'll be 20 in early November.
My kids were teens from the age of 13 through 19, because the names of the years ended in "-teen." It's something that only exists in English-speaking countries, to consider a 12 year old to be in a different category from a thirteen year old.
I'm guessing that by "a 'teen' in ever sense of the word" you're expecting us to have a vision in our heads of how teens are, must be, should be.
Perhaps the intention was to suggest that there's no difference between a teen who has never been schooled and one who has.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fbyrem
I wasn't going to respond to this, but changed my mind.
It took me awhile to change my mind, though, because on more than one occasion, I was told by you to not respond, and basically to `please go away'. But since you have left this post open-ended, with no words of warning, I've decided to respond.
I used the word `teenager' mostly out of social conditioning, and the fact that he is in his `teen' years.
In the same way, I would call a very old person `elderly', or a young child a `toddler'.
By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything, just to recognize that the vast majority of people of that age group, whether it be 12 or 20, or anywhere in between, have a lot of things going on that effect their BEing differently than other ages groups, the same way that the elderly and the toddlers experience their world differently.
It took me awhile to change my mind, though, because on more than one occasion, I was told by you to not respond, and basically to `please go away'. But since you have left this post open-ended, with no words of warning, I've decided to respond.
I used the word `teenager' mostly out of social conditioning, and the fact that he is in his `teen' years.
In the same way, I would call a very old person `elderly', or a young child a `toddler'.
By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything, just to recognize that the vast majority of people of that age group, whether it be 12 or 20, or anywhere in between, have a lot of things going on that effect their BEing differently than other ages groups, the same way that the elderly and the toddlers experience their world differently.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Even through all the struggles and difficulties, we managed to raise a fine young man, who is considerate, compassionate, and still a 'teen' in every sense of the word.-=-
>
> My youngest is 19. She'll be 20 in early November.
>
> My kids were teens from the age of 13 through 19, because the names of the years ended in "-teen." It's something that only exists in English-speaking countries, to consider a 12 year old to be in a different category from a thirteen year old.
>
> I'm guessing that by "a 'teen' in ever sense of the word" you're expecting us to have a vision in our heads of how teens are, must be, should be.
>
> Perhaps the intention was to suggest that there's no difference between a teen who has never been schooled and one who has.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-It took me awhile to change my mind, though, because on more than one occasion, I was told by you to not respond, and basically to `please go away'. But since you have left this post open-ended, with no words of warning, I've decided to respond.-=-
No one asked you to go away.
Several people suggested reading more, thinking more, not posting everything you thought.
Some posts were returned because the quotes weren't going to be differentiated from the responses.
I let this one through because it seems you're frustrated and defensive and wanted to express that.
It will help your relationship with your child if you find ways to release your frustration and defensiveness and be more relaxed. It will help discussion on this list, too, if you can only write what will be helpful and try to process privately the things that are not about helping others understand unschooling better.
That's not saying please go away. It is saying respond appropriately, in keeping with the guidelines of the discussion.
-=-I used the word `teenager' mostly out of social conditioning, and the fact that he is in his `teen' years.
-=-In the same way, I would call a very old person `elderly', or a young child a `toddler'.
-=-By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything, just to recognize that the vast majority of people of that age group, whether it be 12 or 20, or anywhere in between, have a lot of things going on that effect their BEing differently than other ages groups, the same way that the elderly and the toddlers experience their world differently.-=-
You didn't write that someone was "elderly in every sense of the word." You didn't write that someone was "a toddler in every sense of the word."
-=-By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything-=-
Posts for this list need to fulfill at least one of these criteria:
helps lots of people understand unschooling
asks a question that actually needs an answer
requests help seeing different aspects of a situation
helps people have more peaceful and joyful lives (helps lots of people on the list)
ALL posts should be
honest
proofread
sincere
clear
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No one asked you to go away.
Several people suggested reading more, thinking more, not posting everything you thought.
Some posts were returned because the quotes weren't going to be differentiated from the responses.
I let this one through because it seems you're frustrated and defensive and wanted to express that.
It will help your relationship with your child if you find ways to release your frustration and defensiveness and be more relaxed. It will help discussion on this list, too, if you can only write what will be helpful and try to process privately the things that are not about helping others understand unschooling better.
That's not saying please go away. It is saying respond appropriately, in keeping with the guidelines of the discussion.
-=-I used the word `teenager' mostly out of social conditioning, and the fact that he is in his `teen' years.
-=-In the same way, I would call a very old person `elderly', or a young child a `toddler'.
-=-By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything, just to recognize that the vast majority of people of that age group, whether it be 12 or 20, or anywhere in between, have a lot of things going on that effect their BEing differently than other ages groups, the same way that the elderly and the toddlers experience their world differently.-=-
You didn't write that someone was "elderly in every sense of the word." You didn't write that someone was "a toddler in every sense of the word."
-=-By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything-=-
Posts for this list need to fulfill at least one of these criteria:
helps lots of people understand unschooling
asks a question that actually needs an answer
requests help seeing different aspects of a situation
helps people have more peaceful and joyful lives (helps lots of people on the list)
ALL posts should be
honest
proofread
sincere
clear
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 26, 2011, at 4:59 AM, fbyrem wrote:
Don't worry about being misunderstood. Seriously, it doesn't really matter - if people really do completely misunderstand, then ignore their ideas. But I would suggest that you consider that you might be revealing more than you intend to reveal and that people ARE understanding and that their ideas would be useful for you to ponder.
Ponder is a good word. That's what Sandra is asking you (and others) to do before posting - ponder more, post less.
I suggest you also decide to be brave enough to think thoughts that you might end up rejecting - but first try them on. For example, instead of defending what you meant about teens, take the risk of considering the possibility that your own words just revealed that you have stereotypical ideas about what teens are like. Say to yourself, "Hmmm, what IF I DO have such ideas? What would those ideas be? Where did I get them? How could they affect my thinking and my behavior? Do I REALLY think teens are that way or am I just unthinkingly speaking things I don't really mean?"
Ponder your OWN words along with others.
Maybe, in the end, you'll decide you have nothing to learn here. But you might decide you have a lot to learn and that this list's very analytical approach will help you examine your own ideas critically and help you make moves toward even more happiness and joy in your life. Maybe. You won't know if you don't try.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm a list moderator and saw all correspondence that you had with Sandra. FAR from telling you to go away, she is telling you to stay and read. When someone is feeling a bit on the defense, it can often help if they stop writing and just read a while. When people stop trying to express and start focusing more on taking stuff in, perspectives change.
> It took me awhile to change my mind, though, because on more than one occasion, I was told by you to not respond, and basically to `please go away'. But since you have left this post open-ended, with no words of warning, I've decided to respond.
Don't worry about being misunderstood. Seriously, it doesn't really matter - if people really do completely misunderstand, then ignore their ideas. But I would suggest that you consider that you might be revealing more than you intend to reveal and that people ARE understanding and that their ideas would be useful for you to ponder.
Ponder is a good word. That's what Sandra is asking you (and others) to do before posting - ponder more, post less.
I suggest you also decide to be brave enough to think thoughts that you might end up rejecting - but first try them on. For example, instead of defending what you meant about teens, take the risk of considering the possibility that your own words just revealed that you have stereotypical ideas about what teens are like. Say to yourself, "Hmmm, what IF I DO have such ideas? What would those ideas be? Where did I get them? How could they affect my thinking and my behavior? Do I REALLY think teens are that way or am I just unthinkingly speaking things I don't really mean?"
Ponder your OWN words along with others.
Maybe, in the end, you'll decide you have nothing to learn here. But you might decide you have a lot to learn and that this list's very analytical approach will help you examine your own ideas critically and help you make moves toward even more happiness and joy in your life. Maybe. You won't know if you don't try.
>-pam
> I used the word `teenager' mostly out of social conditioning, and the fact that he is in his `teen' years.
>
> In the same way, I would call a very old person `elderly', or a young child a `toddler'.
>
> By saying `in every sense of the word', I wasn't expecting people to have any visions of anything, just to recognize that the vast majority of people of that age group, whether it be 12 or 20, or anywhere in between, have a lot of things going on that effect their BEing differently than other ages groups, the same way that the elderly and the toddlers experience their world differently.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]