[email protected]

Hello all,

I read blog posts on a regular basis at two sites...since my family began our unschooling journey a few years ago, these (Sandra's and DaynaMartin's)remain at the top of my list of helpful places to learn and grow. I feel conflicted on a fairly regular basis regarding the differences in perspective I see. I tell myself to remain open and assimilate as much of the brilliance that I see...and i also wonder if any others have had experiences like this and can offer insight. Do I stick to the "assimilate all" philosophy...or do I somehow "narrow it down"...and if so, how does one go about doing this?

Thanks,

Kirsten

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:55 PM, sopik@... wrote:

> Do I stick to the "assimilate all" philosophy...or do I somehow
> "narrow it down"...and if so, how does one go about doing this?

Neither! Make thoughtful choices based on your values and the goals
you have for your family.

It sounds like you're trying to memorize "right" responses ;-) But the
foundations -- the "whys" beneath them -- may be different. The goals
-- where they're headed -- may be different.

On this list the goals and foundations are living a learning filled
life, growing great relationships, supporting a child's explorations,
creating a peaceful home.

I suspect there's some dissonance with what Dayna's writing so that's
why it's not all meshing. For instance, what Sandra's saying may
support relationships. What Dayna's saying may tear at relationships
to support some other goal. (That's just a made up example since I
don't read Dayna's blog.)

People can meld philosophies to form their own philosophy, but it
doesn't work to just pick the pieces you like from each. They won't
necessarily work together. It'd be like assuming all jigsaw puzzles
are the same so if you mix two together and pick your favorite pieces,
you'll be able to assemble a picture you really like.

You need to start from scratch. Think about your goals, your values.
And find what supports those, moves you toward them rather than away.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Do I stick to the "assimilate all" philosophy...-=-

I've never heard of an "assimilate all" philosophy. There's so much information in the world that no one could assimilate it all, and why try?

There's a picture of a tool box that's come up today on a (very cool) blog called How to be a Retronaut, and while it's fascinating that so many tools were fitted into so small a space, it's also overwhelming.
http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/09/the-studley-tool-chest

Few people would need all those tools, and certainly not need them all at once. The tool box and its arrangement are more art than practicality.

I saw a display at the San Diego airport, of clocks, or clock-like art, at least. Clock-esque. :-) It first struck me as steampunk, and then as medieval, but it was art regardless.

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2011/09/medieval-steampunk-religious-mystery.html

Unschoolers need some tools, but they don't need all the tools in the world, nor do they need all possible parenting tools in one moment. It's about learning, and leaaning is gradually, because it builds on what one already knows.

No matter what one reads, all you can do is read a little and try it out and see if you can get it to work for you within your family. And that doesn't happen in one second or one day. It takes a while for you to even see how or whether it's working, and whether you can understand it and remember to apply it so that you can start to see differences. That's what the wait a while and watch advice is about.

I've been saying people should live a sparkly life for most of the past twenty years. One of the things I read yesterday during a presentation with Holly was written when she was two years old; she'll be twenty in November.

There are lots of unschooling voices to consider, but don't try to assimilate them all.

I have these people featured on my site, with quotes and links (to outside sources, if there are other places they're featured and stored):
(the links are near the bottom of http://sandradodd.com/unschooling )

Joyce Fetteroll
Pam Sorooshian
Deb Lewis
Robyn Coburn
Danielle Conger
Mary Gold
Ren Allen
Schuyler Waynforth
JennyCyphers
Kelly Lovejoy
Dan Vilter
Lyle Perry
Pam Laricchia
Kathy Ward
Linda Wyatt
Shell in NZ

Frolic and splash in that information. Relax in that information. But don't try to assimilate more than one idea at a time.

Sandra

mary contessa

I find too much information from too many sources is not always a good thing for where I am trying to be. So, I have chosen to stay with who has the most experience in unschooling and the grown children of that experience to boot. Sandra's various sources of information all feel right for me and my family. I never feel it necessary to veer off the path that her wisdom and years of experience bring to me. I am familiar with Dayna and her young children, but the same feeling about the information and insight as I have with Sandra, is not there for me with Dayna. Maybe another 10 or so years of experience and consistency will make Dayna's insight have more value for me.

Sparkling over here,

Mary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my question. And this is not just a thank you...I want other relative newcomers to know how much this list is transforming my life. I and my family are benefitting in profound ways from the knowledge we gain here. This particular thread is reminding me to work from the inside out, not the outside in...and now i also have a wonderful "tool box" visual to help me remember to "frolic and splash" rather than try to fit it all in:)

Kirsten

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Do I stick to the "assimilate all" philosophy...-=-
>
> I've never heard of an "assimilate all" philosophy. There's so much information in the world that no one could assimilate it all, and why try?
>
> There's a picture of a tool box that's come up today on a (very cool) blog called How to be a Retronaut, and while it's fascinating that so many tools were fitted into so small a space, it's also overwhelming.
> http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/09/the-studley-tool-chest
>
> Few people would need all those tools, and certainly not need them all at once. The tool box and its arrangement are more art than practicality.
>
> I saw a display at the San Diego airport, of clocks, or clock-like art, at least. Clock-esque. :-) It first struck me as steampunk, and then as medieval, but it was art regardless.
>
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2011/09/medieval-steampunk-religious-mystery.html
>
> Unschoolers need some tools, but they don't need all the tools in the world, nor do they need all possible parenting tools in one moment. It's about learning, and leaaning is gradually, because it builds on what one already knows.
>
> No matter what one reads, all you can do is read a little and try it out and see if you can get it to work for you within your family. And that doesn't happen in one second or one day. It takes a while for you to even see how or whether it's working, and whether you can understand it and remember to apply it so that you can start to see differences. That's what the wait a while and watch advice is about.
>
> I've been saying people should live a sparkly life for most of the past twenty years. One of the things I read yesterday during a presentation with Holly was written when she was two years old; she'll be twenty in November.
>
> There are lots of unschooling voices to consider, but don't try to assimilate them all.
>
> I have these people featured on my site, with quotes and links (to outside sources, if there are other places they're featured and stored):
> (the links are near the bottom of http://sandradodd.com/unschooling )
>
> Joyce Fetteroll
> Pam Sorooshian
> Deb Lewis
> Robyn Coburn
> Danielle Conger
> Mary Gold
> Ren Allen
> Schuyler Waynforth
> JennyCyphers
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Dan Vilter
> Lyle Perry
> Pam Laricchia
> Kathy Ward
> Linda Wyatt
> Shell in NZ
>
> Frolic and splash in that information. Relax in that information. But don't try to assimilate more than one idea at a time.
>
> Sandra
>

NCMama

~~~Maybe another 10 or so years of experience and consistency will make Dayna's insight have more value for me.~~~

I gained insight from Sandra, Joyce & Pam when their kids were relatively young! And there's a blogger writing now whose kids are, I think, 3 & 5, that really GETS radical unschooling principles and is able to write about them in a way that helps people understand them. For me, it's less about age of the kids and experience of the parent, and more about clarity of thought & writing, and what will help me (and others) support connection with my kids & natural learning best.

I hope I'm not overstepping anything here to say, my experience with Dayna's group & writing is that living by Law of Attraction principles trumps those things. That doesn't make it wrong! But it makes it different from my goals and values.

On Dayna's list, advice that will move someone away from radical unschooling (as it's defined here, on Sandra's list) is rarely challenged and held up for discussion - the value of acceptance seems to be held higher than the value of clear dissection of thought. If that advice moves someone away from radical unschooling, then it's seen as, that's what that person attracted into their life, and it was for a reason, and the learning & experience the family gets from that detour or permanent exit was more valuable than radical unschooling.

The information that the writing there is for living with Law of Attraction principles over unschooling principles isn't clearly stated there; it's all presented as radical unschooling, which is where some confusion happens. This is how I see it; perhaps others who've read at both places would see it differently.

Caren

mary contessa

It has appeared to me when having read Dayna (or seen her interviews on tv) that she does try to present herself as someone very well versed in unschooling. I have found this a little troubling in that it comes across as someone blowing their own horn for a variety of reasons, including, what has come across to some as self promoting (the un-nanny business she started). While I do feel there is enough opportunity in the universe for all of us to profit from in any number of ways, I was left feeling confused about the sincerity of Dayna's agenda and did not feel her information for myself was valuable enough to compromise feelings about it.

Sparkling over here,

Mary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LydiaK

~~~And there's a blogger writing now whose kids are, I think, 3 & 5, that really GETS radical unschooling principles and is able to write about them in a way that helps people understand them. For me, it's less about age of the kids and experience of the parent, and more about clarity of thought & writing, and what will help me (and others) support connection with my kids & natural learning best.~~~

Could you share the blog address? I love reading unschooling blogs when the writing is clear and helpful!

Lydia Koltai

Pam Sorooshian

On 9/9/2011 7:55 PM, sopik@... wrote:
> Do I stick to the "assimilate all" philosophy...or do I somehow
> "narrow it down"...and if so, how does one go about doing this?

By "assimilate" do you actually mean "to take on and incorporate as
one's own?" There is a "swallow it whole" connotation there that isn't good.

I don't think you should read ANY of anybody's writing with the idea of
assimilating it. That smacks, to me, of reading someone else's ideas and
deciding to use their ideas in your life. "THEIR" ideas?

I think you should read lots of people's ideas and then act on your own
ideas - the ideas you have that have been informed and influenced by
what you've read, yes, but that you've run through your OWN thoughtful,
critical, analytical, testing, examining, sensing brain that have
developed into your personal understanding and belief system.

Maybe that IS what you meant by "assimilate" but if you're trying to
adopt (take on as your own) ideas that seem contradictory, then, instead
of actually thinking for yourself, you're trying to take other people's
ideas and stick them in your head as if they were your own.

Reading ideas from others that don't seem compatible with each other can
be useful in helping you build your OWN philosophical structure as you
examine both from the perspective of your own experience and subject
them to your own tests of logic and goodness. Apparent contradictions
and differing approaches can help you really zero in on what seems right
to you.

I don't recommend reading one person and assimilating their ideas.
Sandra's site has a LOT of people on it so you can read lots of people's
ideas there, including mine, but I still recommend going outside that,
too, at least at first, to read ideas that Sandra wouldn't want on her
site. Part of knowing why you're choosing one direction is knowing, at
least to some limited degree, what lies in the other direction.

After a while, your own philosophical structure and understanding will
be strong enough and clear enough that you might only read a few
people's writing because you've figured out that that is where you get
the most help in carrying on in the direction that make sense to you in
the context of your own overarching philospohy/understanding of how life
and learning work.

pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi Caren,

This specific point about Dayna's philosophy has been very clarifying for me...THAT is the difference: "acceptance" trumps "clear dissection of thought". I also really appreciate your feedback around your interpretation of what Dayna does as possibly including other principles under the heading of "radical unschooling". And finally, as I type this, I think that I am really appreciating being able to type this HERE:) I will put this in my back pocket as a memory of a good fit as I set out to "frolic and splash"!

Kirsten

--- In [email protected], "NCMama" <dharmamama1@...> wrote:
>
> ~~~Maybe another 10 or so years of experience and consistency will make Dayna's insight have more value for me.~~~
>
> I gained insight from Sandra, Joyce & Pam when their kids were relatively young! And there's a blogger writing now whose kids are, I think, 3 & 5, that really GETS radical unschooling principles and is able to write about them in a way that helps people understand them. For me, it's less about age of the kids and experience of the parent, and more about clarity of thought & writing, and what will help me (and others) support connection with my kids & natural learning best.
>
> I hope I'm not overstepping anything here to say, my experience with Dayna's group & writing is that living by Law of Attraction principles trumps those things. That doesn't make it wrong! But it makes it different from my goals and values.
>
> On Dayna's list, advice that will move someone away from radical unschooling (as it's defined here, on Sandra's list) is rarely challenged and held up for discussion - the value of acceptance seems to be held higher than the value of clear dissection of thought. If that advice moves someone away from radical unschooling, then it's seen as, that's what that person attracted into their life, and it was for a reason, and the learning & experience the family gets from that detour or permanent exit was more valuable than radical unschooling.
>
> The information that the writing there is for living with Law of Attraction principles over unschooling principles isn't clearly stated there; it's all presented as radical unschooling, which is where some confusion happens. This is how I see it; perhaps others who've read at both places would see it differently.
>
> Caren
>

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], "NCMama" <dharmamama1@...> wrote:
>
>
> The information that the writing there is for living with Law of Attraction principles over unschooling principles isn't clearly stated there; it's all presented as radical unschooling, which is where some confusion happens. This is how I see it; perhaps others who've read at both places would see it differently.
>
> Caren
>


I met the Sparkling Martins last year at the inaugural Australian Unschooling Conference where I was a speaker. They're lovely people. I would have to say, however, that one-to-one conversations I had with attendees who were unfamiliar with Dayna's work suggested to me that there was indeed confusion about the relationship between the "law of attraction" and "unschooling". For me, the lack of clarity is an issue. I was invited to speak again at this year's Conference and declined for that reason. That's purely personal I should add.

Bob

[email protected]

This kind of feedback is immensely helpful to me and will inform my reading as I move forward! It has been difficult for me to put my finger on what felt disjointed at times while reading Dayna's site...I was having a feeling with no words to go with it. This now gives me language to match the feelings!

Kirsten

--- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <bobcollier@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "NCMama" <dharmamama1@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The information that the writing there is for living with Law of Attraction principles over unschooling principles isn't clearly stated there; it's all presented as radical unschooling, which is where some confusion happens. This is how I see it; perhaps others who've read at both places would see it differently.
> >
> > Caren
> >
>
>
> I met the Sparkling Martins last year at the inaugural Australian Unschooling Conference where I was a speaker. They're lovely people. I would have to say, however, that one-to-one conversations I had with attendees who were unfamiliar with Dayna's work suggested to me that there was indeed confusion about the relationship between the "law of attraction" and "unschooling". For me, the lack of clarity is an issue. I was invited to speak again at this year's Conference and declined for that reason. That's purely personal I should add.
>
> Bob
>