Movie certification
beamoogaloo
Hi Everyone,
My two boys (7&5) love movies and we watch lots! As a result of reading all the Harry Potter books over the course of 6 months we've now watched all the movies with them too (except the last which is still in the cinemas in UK). The boys have loved them and it's been great to be able to press pause if there have been questions etc.
My 5 year old wants to watch the Batman movies - they are certified 12. Andy and I have watched both of them and we own them. The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it. I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead and watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.
My 5 yr old seems to enjoy being scared. When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life. he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there is lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step in before it does reach this point. The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!
So my main question is really about how to best make the decision about movie watching. I would plan to watch the movies with them, at least the first time. And we watch in our living room, generally with the light on unless they prepare 'cinema time' which means everything is dark. And of course the film can be paused, rewound etc at any point. I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.
I'll leave it there! Looking forward to your probing and wisdom ::)
Bea x
My two boys (7&5) love movies and we watch lots! As a result of reading all the Harry Potter books over the course of 6 months we've now watched all the movies with them too (except the last which is still in the cinemas in UK). The boys have loved them and it's been great to be able to press pause if there have been questions etc.
My 5 year old wants to watch the Batman movies - they are certified 12. Andy and I have watched both of them and we own them. The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it. I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead and watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.
My 5 yr old seems to enjoy being scared. When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life. he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there is lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step in before it does reach this point. The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!
So my main question is really about how to best make the decision about movie watching. I would plan to watch the movies with them, at least the first time. And we watch in our living room, generally with the light on unless they prepare 'cinema time' which means everything is dark. And of course the film can be paused, rewound etc at any point. I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.
I'll leave it there! Looking forward to your probing and wisdom ::)
Bea x
JJ Salley
We use the Kids in Mind movie review when making decisions. They break down the comments into 3 main areas (SEX/NUDITY, VIOLENCE/GORE & PROFANITY) and then detail each thing in that area.
--- On Wed, 9/7/11, beamoogaloo <bea@...> wrote:
From: beamoogaloo <bea@...>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Movie certification
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 12:06 PM
Hi Everyone,
My two boys (7&5) love movies and we watch lots! As a result of reading all the Harry Potter books over the course of 6 months we've now watched all the movies with them too (except the last which is still in the cinemas in UK). The boys have loved them and it's been great to be able to press pause if there have been questions etc.
My 5 year old wants to watch the Batman movies - they are certified 12. Andy and I have watched both of them and we own them. The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it. I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead and watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.
My 5 yr old seems to enjoy being scared. When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life. he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there is lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step in before it does reach this point. The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!
So my main question is really about how to best make the decision about movie watching. I would plan to watch the movies with them, at least the first time. And we watch in our living room, generally with the light on unless they prepare 'cinema time' which means everything is dark. And of course the film can be paused, rewound etc at any point. I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.
I'll leave it there! Looking forward to your probing and wisdom ::)
Bea x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life. he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there is lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step in before it does reach this point. The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!-=-
I hope you didn't tell them that it's NEVER okay to kill another person. Or if you did, I hope you're never attacked in your home and they stand by and not risk defending you.
Sometimes "violence" in defense of a child, or another person, or of oneself is the only rational thing to do. Calling physical defense "violence" can be an obstacle to logic. And definitely calling a video game or a movie "violent" causes thought-blockages.
When it's not okay is if one is a Buddhist priest or a Jain or a Brahmin, I guess, and might be able to stay still and hope for the best in the net life.
-=- I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.-=-
Did she see those movies in a theatre when people couldn't leave in the middle? Did she see them under the circumstances you're describing, with a handy remote control and parents ready to turn the whole thing off the second a kid indicates that's enough?
-=- It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
-=-
Kids like to jump out of trees, and off roofs, and into deep water, and to ride carnival rides that go really really fast. They like for bigger people to hold them upside down and swing them around.
Some adults do, too. And fast race cars, and horses, and skiing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hope you didn't tell them that it's NEVER okay to kill another person. Or if you did, I hope you're never attacked in your home and they stand by and not risk defending you.
Sometimes "violence" in defense of a child, or another person, or of oneself is the only rational thing to do. Calling physical defense "violence" can be an obstacle to logic. And definitely calling a video game or a movie "violent" causes thought-blockages.
When it's not okay is if one is a Buddhist priest or a Jain or a Brahmin, I guess, and might be able to stay still and hope for the best in the net life.
-=- I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.-=-
Did she see those movies in a theatre when people couldn't leave in the middle? Did she see them under the circumstances you're describing, with a handy remote control and parents ready to turn the whole thing off the second a kid indicates that's enough?
-=- It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
-=-
Kids like to jump out of trees, and off roofs, and into deep water, and to ride carnival rides that go really really fast. They like for bigger people to hold them upside down and swing them around.
Some adults do, too. And fast race cars, and horses, and skiing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
*** The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it. I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead and watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.***
You are talking about your comfort though and not your child's comfort.... see below....
***When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!***
Some kids LIKE to be scared, they just do. In the autobiographical book by Isabel Allende, sorry can't think of the name off hand, she said something about keeping Halloween skeletons and other oddities semi out and about in the basement of her house for her grandchildren to find because it fuels the imagination to feel that kind of scare that's real, but not dangerous. That resonated with me hugely in regards to my own children, especially my oldest who LOVES stories and movies of all kinds and has since she was very very little. Even my youngest is starting to enjoy that, she's 10 and will sometimes get invited to watch movies with the teens, some of them horror. She's free to leave if it's too much for her and sometimes she does and sometimes the movie is really good and she'll stay.
***The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!***
Sometimes it is though. It's even sanctioned legally in lots of places around the world. If they are interested in the legalities of the death of others, that is a VERY interesting topic of conversation. I remember watching a show once with my oldest about the technical advances of sanctioned deaths, like guillotines and electric chairs. It was truly fascinating. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it or like it, but appreciate that it really does exist and there have been all kinds of careers made of it for hundreds of years. Of course "murder" is unlawful killing of another, but even that is interesting to see where the boundaries of that are, what makes one death unlawful and another lawful. I've had these kinds of conversations with my older daughter plenty of times and they are always insightful. It can touch on all kinds of interesting things, ethics, humanity, religion, feminism, civil rights, even that darn Henry the VIII
and his cod pieces.
One day she might be watching a movie and remember a connection about one of those conversations and piece together history and humanity in just one more way, or hear some lyrics in a song and know what it means.
I'd say, watch the movies, if the kids like them, then great, if they don't, you can turn it off and know they aren't ready.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are talking about your comfort though and not your child's comfort.... see below....
***When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!***
Some kids LIKE to be scared, they just do. In the autobiographical book by Isabel Allende, sorry can't think of the name off hand, she said something about keeping Halloween skeletons and other oddities semi out and about in the basement of her house for her grandchildren to find because it fuels the imagination to feel that kind of scare that's real, but not dangerous. That resonated with me hugely in regards to my own children, especially my oldest who LOVES stories and movies of all kinds and has since she was very very little. Even my youngest is starting to enjoy that, she's 10 and will sometimes get invited to watch movies with the teens, some of them horror. She's free to leave if it's too much for her and sometimes she does and sometimes the movie is really good and she'll stay.
***The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!***
Sometimes it is though. It's even sanctioned legally in lots of places around the world. If they are interested in the legalities of the death of others, that is a VERY interesting topic of conversation. I remember watching a show once with my oldest about the technical advances of sanctioned deaths, like guillotines and electric chairs. It was truly fascinating. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it or like it, but appreciate that it really does exist and there have been all kinds of careers made of it for hundreds of years. Of course "murder" is unlawful killing of another, but even that is interesting to see where the boundaries of that are, what makes one death unlawful and another lawful. I've had these kinds of conversations with my older daughter plenty of times and they are always insightful. It can touch on all kinds of interesting things, ethics, humanity, religion, feminism, civil rights, even that darn Henry the VIII
and his cod pieces.
One day she might be watching a movie and remember a connection about one of those conversations and piece together history and humanity in just one more way, or hear some lyrics in a song and know what it means.
I'd say, watch the movies, if the kids like them, then great, if they don't, you can turn it off and know they aren't ready.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 7, 2011, at 3:06 PM, beamoogaloo wrote:
pretend people.
Kids know this. Kids who are old enough to grasp the difference
between stories and real life know movies are as pretend as the
fantasies the kids act out.
It's parents that confuse fantasy and reality!
When kids pretend to be cats, they know they aren't cats. (Though may
try to get as much of the world to go along with a pretense as they
can! ;-) Kids know they aren't killing anyone when they shoot them
with a pretend gun.
*He* can't feel the pain someone else feels, so he only has other
people's word that it exists! ;-) He probably understand
intellectually, understands the concept, but doesn't fully grasp what
it means. It's not something he can be taught, only slowly come to
understand as he's developmentally able. So your kids do need you
there as a buffer to use your greater understanding to help them.
vague question.
Is it okay?
Is it okay based on what?
There are loads of theories that sound logical. But the test of
theories is whether their predictions happen in real life.
While it makes logical sense that exposure to violent ideas in stories
will cause kids to think those values are okay. If that theory is
true, wouldn't the unschooling kids who are drawn to watching violent
movies, playing violent video games, show the greatest effects? And
yet they aren't. Why not? Think about that. What's different in the
lives of unschooling kids from kids who are deliberately using real
guns, real knives, and know they're hurting real people with them?
ones they're living with in your home?
Are the characters in the movies they watch living cozy lives where
they can cuddle up with their moms and sip hot chocolate wrapped in a
blanket knowing that everything is peaceful and calm? Can those
characters walk down the street without fear of being attacked? Can
those characters leave the house for the day secure in the knowledge
that when they return their pets will still be there to greet them?
Even kids who grew up in Europe during WWII surrounded by people
solving problems with violence didn't get the idea stuck in their
heads that violence was better than peace. I was just there. It's very
peaceful!
It's only when someone realizes they have more to gain from violence
than they have to lose, that violence seems like a good choice.
Kids take for granted their secure, stable, love-filled lives will
always be there. (They should!) But it sure doesn't mean they don't
care about them. Fantasy is a way of exploring a world where the rules
are different, where people can cast magic spells and solve problems
with a sword and be heroes. But the rules of the fantasy world don't
change the rules of their real world. Kids know that. They like to
pretend violence because they know they can leave it behind and go
back to their secure, loving world.
them :-)
He's also figuring out who he is by testing his boundaries which are
growing and changing every day. Be prepared. He may eventually want to
watch really scary movies! The scary, violent movies aren't made for
sickos. (Considering their popularity, it'd be real-life scary if they
were! ;-) They're made for regular people who just happen to get a
rush from being scared.
If you search the archives for "movies violen" ("violen" will call up
both violence and violent) you'll have a wealth of posts about how
unschooling families have handled kids love of horror movies. ("video
game violen" will be useful too.)
Joyce
> The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it.It has pretend people in pretend situations pretending to hurt other
pretend people.
Kids know this. Kids who are old enough to grasp the difference
between stories and real life know movies are as pretend as the
fantasies the kids act out.
It's parents that confuse fantasy and reality!
When kids pretend to be cats, they know they aren't cats. (Though may
try to get as much of the world to go along with a pretense as they
can! ;-) Kids know they aren't killing anyone when they shoot them
with a pretend gun.
> he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there isAt 5 it's possible he doesn't fully grasp that he's causing real pain.
> lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step
> in before it does reach this point.
*He* can't feel the pain someone else feels, so he only has other
people's word that it exists! ;-) He probably understand
intellectually, understands the concept, but doesn't fully grasp what
it means. It's not something he can be taught, only slowly come to
understand as he's developmentally able. So your kids do need you
there as a buffer to use your greater understanding to help them.
> I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead andYou're getting a vague answer in your head because you're asking a
> watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too
> which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.
vague question.
Is it okay?
Is it okay based on what?
There are loads of theories that sound logical. But the test of
theories is whether their predictions happen in real life.
While it makes logical sense that exposure to violent ideas in stories
will cause kids to think those values are okay. If that theory is
true, wouldn't the unschooling kids who are drawn to watching violent
movies, playing violent video games, show the greatest effects? And
yet they aren't. Why not? Think about that. What's different in the
lives of unschooling kids from kids who are deliberately using real
guns, real knives, and know they're hurting real people with them?
> One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands thatWhy do you think your kids would feel those ideas are better than the
> violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK
> in real life.
> ... I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads
> and once it's in there it's stuck.
ones they're living with in your home?
Are the characters in the movies they watch living cozy lives where
they can cuddle up with their moms and sip hot chocolate wrapped in a
blanket knowing that everything is peaceful and calm? Can those
characters walk down the street without fear of being attacked? Can
those characters leave the house for the day secure in the knowledge
that when they return their pets will still be there to greet them?
Even kids who grew up in Europe during WWII surrounded by people
solving problems with violence didn't get the idea stuck in their
heads that violence was better than peace. I was just there. It's very
peaceful!
It's only when someone realizes they have more to gain from violence
than they have to lose, that violence seems like a good choice.
Kids take for granted their secure, stable, love-filled lives will
always be there. (They should!) But it sure doesn't mean they don't
care about them. Fantasy is a way of exploring a world where the rules
are different, where people can cast magic spells and solve problems
with a sword and be heroes. But the rules of the fantasy world don't
change the rules of their real world. Kids know that. They like to
pretend violence because they know they can leave it behind and go
back to their secure, loving world.
> My 5 yr old seems to enjoy being scared. When we watched the HarrySome people do! And there's loads of scary movies made by and for
> Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it
> off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and
> sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or
> sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes
> getting that scared feeling!
them :-)
He's also figuring out who he is by testing his boundaries which are
growing and changing every day. Be prepared. He may eventually want to
watch really scary movies! The scary, violent movies aren't made for
sickos. (Considering their popularity, it'd be real-life scary if they
were! ;-) They're made for regular people who just happen to get a
rush from being scared.
If you search the archives for "movies violen" ("violen" will call up
both violence and violent) you'll have a wealth of posts about how
unschooling families have handled kids love of horror movies. ("video
game violen" will be useful too.)
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=- That resonated with me hugely in regards to my own children, especially my oldest who LOVES stories and movies of all kinds and has since she was very very little.-=-
When I was young, one of the Albuquerque TV stations showed a scary movies on TV each Saturday afternoon. Old Boris Karloff things, in black and white, and haunted house movies, and Creature from the Black Lagoon and such. It was daytime, but we could still get spooked, and that was fun.
When I was thirteen and fourteen, we had a drama club at school, and would get together on Sunday afternoons at one house or another to rehearse or work on scripts. But mostly we would play sardines, or tell "ghost stories" (gory spooky stories about dates in the dark and babysitters and puppies, and La Llorona (a Rio Grande Valley boogey-man/woman). Again, it was daylight, but we would find a darkish, quiet, soft place and get still and take turns trying to creep the others out.
That was because videotape wasn't invented yet. Now there are scary opportunities on DVD, or Netflix or other streaming opportunities, and excerpts of the scary parts on YouTube. Times have changed, but the desire of kids to test their courage and to play with their own emotions hasn't changed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When I was young, one of the Albuquerque TV stations showed a scary movies on TV each Saturday afternoon. Old Boris Karloff things, in black and white, and haunted house movies, and Creature from the Black Lagoon and such. It was daytime, but we could still get spooked, and that was fun.
When I was thirteen and fourteen, we had a drama club at school, and would get together on Sunday afternoons at one house or another to rehearse or work on scripts. But mostly we would play sardines, or tell "ghost stories" (gory spooky stories about dates in the dark and babysitters and puppies, and La Llorona (a Rio Grande Valley boogey-man/woman). Again, it was daylight, but we would find a darkish, quiet, soft place and get still and take turns trying to creep the others out.
That was because videotape wasn't invented yet. Now there are scary opportunities on DVD, or Netflix or other streaming opportunities, and excerpts of the scary parts on YouTube. Times have changed, but the desire of kids to test their courage and to play with their own emotions hasn't changed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "beamoogaloo" <bea@...> wrote:
"I read elsewhere yesterday of a mother who was having difficulty relating to her son's passion for war movies and it got me thinking. I used to be a fan of war movies myself when I was younger and now I can't bear to watch them because they evoke in me very different thoughts as an (allegedly) mature adult and those thoughts make me feel uncomfortable and sad. Something I'd rather not be.
My wife and teenage son are currently enjoying watching DVDs of CSI: Miami in the evenings. It's a marathon of depictions of violence in the most minute gory detail I've ever seen and I have no intention of sitting through it with them. When I used to watch the original CSI with my daughter I would cover my eyes in the most graphic places. My daughter, on the other hand, was inspired by the show to take a degree in Forensics.
There has been a lot of research into the effects of violence in movies, TV shows and especially video games. I have a son who has spent a huge amount of time between the ages of 6 and 16 playing violent video games. Or, to be more accurate, video games containing depictions of violence - which became increasingly graphic as the technology improved. The side effects of his passion have been equanimity, courtesy, kindness, generosity and other qualities customarily regarded as positive. I'm sure he would be a fascinating case study for the researchers. And it seems to me, while there are people like my son in the world, no one can claim it has been definitively proven that violent video games cause violence. Perhaps the difference between depictions of violence and actual violence is significant. I know from playing with my son that, for example, blowing the heads off Nazi zombies can be jolly good fun, no actual violence occurred and not even the pixels were harmed. Perhaps the "side effects" are not side effects but what would happen anyway. Marc Prensky, author of "Don't Bother Me Mom - I'm Learning" has maintained that video gaming is contextual, by which he means, as I understand it, that depictions of violence experienced in a peaceful real life environment are processed differently than depictions of violence in a violent real life environment. Perhaps it could be claimed that actual violence causes children to play violent video games. Or, rather, to be obsessed with violent video games. Something to note about my experience with my son and from playing nearly all of the games with him over the years is that his passion for depictions of violence may have been predominant but it was far from exclusive, even when he played violent video games for hours on end. We watched two movies together over the weekend - Terminator 2 and Monsters, Inc. - and that's pretty typical. He watches Law & Order SVU and he watches Ace of Cakes. He plays Call of Duty and he plays Little Big Planet.
Anyway, I know rock and roll didn't rot my brain. Yet still there's popular music and songs I won't listen to because of the 'sound' or the lyrics. In the same way, I wonder about horror movies in particular and how people can consciously get up in the morning and go to work and conspire together to share with the world their appalling ideas, and how exactly is what they produce meant to benefit the viewer? And I wonder what my wife sees in shows she loves to watch like Supernatural, Torchwood, Spooks and Silent Witness when I would rather watch soccer or baseball. Mind you, I do enjoy Midsomer Murders ...
It seems more complicated than simple."
Bob
>I wrote this on Facebook yesterday after reading a post here, and also as a response to some anti-video game scaremongering I'd read before that. I don't know if it will help or not, but it's a point of view at least. :-)
> Hi Everyone,
>
> My two boys (7&5) love movies and we watch lots! As a result of reading all the Harry Potter books over the course of 6 months we've now watched all the movies with them too (except the last which is still in the cinemas in UK). The boys have loved them and it's been great to be able to press pause if there have been questions etc.
>
> My 5 year old wants to watch the Batman movies - they are certified 12. Andy and I have watched both of them and we own them. The second one in particular has quite extreme fantasy violence in it. I feel really uneasy about whether it's Ok to let him go ahead and watch these movies. Pirates of the Caribbean has been mentioned too which I feel slightly more comfortable with but still not certain.
>
> My 5 yr old seems to enjoy being scared. When we watched the Harry Potter movies he would often get scared and we'd offer to turn it off but he'd insist he wanted to carry on. Sometimes he'd come and sit with us other times he'd stay where he was - on the floor or sharing a seat with his brother. It's almost as though he likes getting that scared feeling!
>
> One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life. he is a particularly physical little boy and between them there is lots of play fighting, often going too far and I do my best to step in before it does reach this point. The other day the eldest asked me what murder was. I explained it to them and they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what they thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's clearer for them now!!
>
> So my main question is really about how to best make the decision about movie watching. I would plan to watch the movies with them, at least the first time. And we watch in our living room, generally with the light on unless they prepare 'cinema time' which means everything is dark. And of course the film can be paused, rewound etc at any point. I just have this niggle about the content going into their heads and once it's in there it's stuck. An adult friend of mine talks about how badly affected she is by some movies even now but that as a kid she found dealing with the content of some films really hard.
>
> I'll leave it there! Looking forward to your probing and wisdom ::)
>
> Bea x
>
"I read elsewhere yesterday of a mother who was having difficulty relating to her son's passion for war movies and it got me thinking. I used to be a fan of war movies myself when I was younger and now I can't bear to watch them because they evoke in me very different thoughts as an (allegedly) mature adult and those thoughts make me feel uncomfortable and sad. Something I'd rather not be.
My wife and teenage son are currently enjoying watching DVDs of CSI: Miami in the evenings. It's a marathon of depictions of violence in the most minute gory detail I've ever seen and I have no intention of sitting through it with them. When I used to watch the original CSI with my daughter I would cover my eyes in the most graphic places. My daughter, on the other hand, was inspired by the show to take a degree in Forensics.
There has been a lot of research into the effects of violence in movies, TV shows and especially video games. I have a son who has spent a huge amount of time between the ages of 6 and 16 playing violent video games. Or, to be more accurate, video games containing depictions of violence - which became increasingly graphic as the technology improved. The side effects of his passion have been equanimity, courtesy, kindness, generosity and other qualities customarily regarded as positive. I'm sure he would be a fascinating case study for the researchers. And it seems to me, while there are people like my son in the world, no one can claim it has been definitively proven that violent video games cause violence. Perhaps the difference between depictions of violence and actual violence is significant. I know from playing with my son that, for example, blowing the heads off Nazi zombies can be jolly good fun, no actual violence occurred and not even the pixels were harmed. Perhaps the "side effects" are not side effects but what would happen anyway. Marc Prensky, author of "Don't Bother Me Mom - I'm Learning" has maintained that video gaming is contextual, by which he means, as I understand it, that depictions of violence experienced in a peaceful real life environment are processed differently than depictions of violence in a violent real life environment. Perhaps it could be claimed that actual violence causes children to play violent video games. Or, rather, to be obsessed with violent video games. Something to note about my experience with my son and from playing nearly all of the games with him over the years is that his passion for depictions of violence may have been predominant but it was far from exclusive, even when he played violent video games for hours on end. We watched two movies together over the weekend - Terminator 2 and Monsters, Inc. - and that's pretty typical. He watches Law & Order SVU and he watches Ace of Cakes. He plays Call of Duty and he plays Little Big Planet.
Anyway, I know rock and roll didn't rot my brain. Yet still there's popular music and songs I won't listen to because of the 'sound' or the lyrics. In the same way, I wonder about horror movies in particular and how people can consciously get up in the morning and go to work and conspire together to share with the world their appalling ideas, and how exactly is what they produce meant to benefit the viewer? And I wonder what my wife sees in shows she loves to watch like Supernatural, Torchwood, Spooks and Silent Witness when I would rather watch soccer or baseball. Mind you, I do enjoy Midsomer Murders ...
It seems more complicated than simple."
Bob
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 7, 2011, at 3:06 PM, beamoogaloo wrote:
a need to get kids to think the "right" way about an idea.
It helps to keep in mind that they're constantly building -- and
unbuilding and building some more -- their ideas about right and
wrong, what's important to them, and how the world works.
They will hold ideas that are counter to reality. But kids are
constantly (mostly unconsciously) checking their ideas against reality
and refining them. (That's how natural learning works.)
They will hold ideas that are right for their right-now lives that
they will drop in the future. For instance at 12 they may feel it's
the ultimate rightness to put 12 hours a day into beating a video game
but not feel the same at 16. Not because they've realized they were
wrong but because they're different people, with different needs.
Different needs need different solutions.
They will hold ideas that make you uncomfortable.
If they aren't hurting someone with their beliefs, it helps to let go
of the need to get them thinking right. It helps to listen to their
ideas to understand why those ideas seem right to them. It helps to
talk about why you believe what is right for yourself. It helps to
*trust* that universally good ideas are good for a reason and that
your kids will agree those ideas are good too when they're
developmentally able.
It helps to understand that not all "good" ideas are universally good.
We each have our own values and priorities. And part of unschooling is
allowing kids to explore and discover what their values and priorities
are (in respectful, non-harmful to themselves or others ways).
Learn to listen with an open mind. Find out why those ideas make sense
to them. Share your ideas without pressuring them to see the (your)
"right" way. Trust that they're thinking creatures who can put the
pieces together to conclude that they'd rather live in a world where
people don't think it's okay to murder each other as simple solutions
to any problem.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> they asked if it was OK to murder someone. I asked them what theyWhat can get in the way of really digging into any topic with kids is
> thought and both of them said that they thought that sometimes it
> was OK to kill another person. I was a little shocked! But it did
> open up the conversation and we talked about it and I hope that it's
> clearer for them now!!
a need to get kids to think the "right" way about an idea.
It helps to keep in mind that they're constantly building -- and
unbuilding and building some more -- their ideas about right and
wrong, what's important to them, and how the world works.
They will hold ideas that are counter to reality. But kids are
constantly (mostly unconsciously) checking their ideas against reality
and refining them. (That's how natural learning works.)
They will hold ideas that are right for their right-now lives that
they will drop in the future. For instance at 12 they may feel it's
the ultimate rightness to put 12 hours a day into beating a video game
but not feel the same at 16. Not because they've realized they were
wrong but because they're different people, with different needs.
Different needs need different solutions.
They will hold ideas that make you uncomfortable.
If they aren't hurting someone with their beliefs, it helps to let go
of the need to get them thinking right. It helps to listen to their
ideas to understand why those ideas seem right to them. It helps to
talk about why you believe what is right for yourself. It helps to
*trust* that universally good ideas are good for a reason and that
your kids will agree those ideas are good too when they're
developmentally able.
It helps to understand that not all "good" ideas are universally good.
We each have our own values and priorities. And part of unschooling is
allowing kids to explore and discover what their values and priorities
are (in respectful, non-harmful to themselves or others ways).
Learn to listen with an open mind. Find out why those ideas make sense
to them. Share your ideas without pressuring them to see the (your)
"right" way. Trust that they're thinking creatures who can put the
pieces together to conclude that they'd rather live in a world where
people don't think it's okay to murder each other as simple solutions
to any problem.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Are the characters in the movies they watch living cozy lives where
they can cuddle up with their moms and sip hot chocolate wrapped in a
blanket knowing that everything is peaceful and calm? -=-
I got to stay with Bea, and she made me a coal fire, because I'd never seen a real coal fire in a fireplace in a house. (I've seen blacksmiths' forges, but not a little fire.) Even though it was summer, I got to sit by a little coal fire at night in Bea's house. So I know where her TV is, and what the room's like. They have degus in that room. Degus are illegal to own in lots of places, so that makes them dangerous too. :-)
-=-Even kids who grew up in Europe during WWII surrounded by people
solving problems with violence didn't get the idea stuck in their
heads that violence was better than peace. I was just there. It's very
peaceful!-=-
Bea's family's in Sheffield. It's not the most peaceful town in England maybe, but the parts I saw were quite happy and peaceful. In the next town I went to, I met Karl, whose girlfriend is a now-grown home-educated person, whose family-with-teen-sister-at-home I stayed with. Karl had been a cage fighter in Sheffield (might still sometimes be) called The Iceman, with a mask and all. But he drove us to Tissington, a village that survived the plague intact in the Middle Ages, and they decorate their wells each year like Rose Bowl floats (kind of, similar idea, though much predating California).
-=-It's only when someone realizes they have more to gain from violence
than they have to lose, that violence seems like a good choice.-=-
Even cage fighting isn't real violence. It's a contest, and a show, to make money from people who like the idea of people really trying to hurt each other, and who want to go to a relatively safe place to see it. It's like a human stock car race. People get excited if there's a wreck, an accident, but it's not the purpose of it. Even watching skiing or skateboarding has that element. This guy could get KILLED.
There's a new book out about battle or war or human nature. I read a review but didn't save it. The review said the author said (How LAME, sorry; I even had it cut out to think about, but I threw my pile of bedside clippings away to clean up to go to a conference).... that there is a big adrenaline high involved in the danger of being in a war zone. And clearly, history has plenty of incidents of the frenzy of attack or defense for glorious or glorified reasons, and there are tales of nobility and honor and courage in literature, fantasy and history.
I think seeing any interest as a portal to the universe is a good unschooling principle. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they can cuddle up with their moms and sip hot chocolate wrapped in a
blanket knowing that everything is peaceful and calm? -=-
I got to stay with Bea, and she made me a coal fire, because I'd never seen a real coal fire in a fireplace in a house. (I've seen blacksmiths' forges, but not a little fire.) Even though it was summer, I got to sit by a little coal fire at night in Bea's house. So I know where her TV is, and what the room's like. They have degus in that room. Degus are illegal to own in lots of places, so that makes them dangerous too. :-)
-=-Even kids who grew up in Europe during WWII surrounded by people
solving problems with violence didn't get the idea stuck in their
heads that violence was better than peace. I was just there. It's very
peaceful!-=-
Bea's family's in Sheffield. It's not the most peaceful town in England maybe, but the parts I saw were quite happy and peaceful. In the next town I went to, I met Karl, whose girlfriend is a now-grown home-educated person, whose family-with-teen-sister-at-home I stayed with. Karl had been a cage fighter in Sheffield (might still sometimes be) called The Iceman, with a mask and all. But he drove us to Tissington, a village that survived the plague intact in the Middle Ages, and they decorate their wells each year like Rose Bowl floats (kind of, similar idea, though much predating California).
-=-It's only when someone realizes they have more to gain from violence
than they have to lose, that violence seems like a good choice.-=-
Even cage fighting isn't real violence. It's a contest, and a show, to make money from people who like the idea of people really trying to hurt each other, and who want to go to a relatively safe place to see it. It's like a human stock car race. People get excited if there's a wreck, an accident, but it's not the purpose of it. Even watching skiing or skateboarding has that element. This guy could get KILLED.
There's a new book out about battle or war or human nature. I read a review but didn't save it. The review said the author said (How LAME, sorry; I even had it cut out to think about, but I threw my pile of bedside clippings away to clean up to go to a conference).... that there is a big adrenaline high involved in the danger of being in a war zone. And clearly, history has plenty of incidents of the frenzy of attack or defense for glorious or glorified reasons, and there are tales of nobility and honor and courage in literature, fantasy and history.
I think seeing any interest as a portal to the universe is a good unschooling principle. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- For instance at 12 they may feel it's
the ultimate rightness to put 12 hours a day into beating a video game
but not feel the same at 16. Not because they've realized they were
wrong but because they're different people, with different needs.
Different needs need different solutions.-=-
And when a twelve year old is home, that's safe and good.
He can't very well get out and have the range of movement a sixteen year old can have (especially where I am, where at sixteen my kids were driving--not Kirby, but the other two were).
In my experience, my older kids used better judgment when they were older and mobile than they would have if I hadn't let them practice on all sorts of things at home, when they were younger. They were home. If I had micro-managed their activities and thoughts and input (or tried to), I would have added noise and guilt where none was necessary or useful. But for years they were able to experiment with such things, and to gorge or avoid or immerse or reject, and it helped them build filters and bases for the bigger, more actually dangerous things to come.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the ultimate rightness to put 12 hours a day into beating a video game
but not feel the same at 16. Not because they've realized they were
wrong but because they're different people, with different needs.
Different needs need different solutions.-=-
And when a twelve year old is home, that's safe and good.
He can't very well get out and have the range of movement a sixteen year old can have (especially where I am, where at sixteen my kids were driving--not Kirby, but the other two were).
In my experience, my older kids used better judgment when they were older and mobile than they would have if I hadn't let them practice on all sorts of things at home, when they were younger. They were home. If I had micro-managed their activities and thoughts and input (or tried to), I would have added noise and guilt where none was necessary or useful. But for years they were able to experiment with such things, and to gorge or avoid or immerse or reject, and it helped them build filters and bases for the bigger, more actually dangerous things to come.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 8, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
have options that don't involve hurting people to get it, they're
going to choose those first!
(*Assuming* they haven't been damaged growing up into concluding that
the world doesn't care about their needs so why should they care about
other people.)
better at preventing people from growing up in circumstances that
cause them to decide that what they gain from violence is better than
what they'll lose. But I can say that there weren't a bunch of 70-80
year olds who grew up seeing real people solving real problems with
real guns who were solving their problems with guns! People have an
inherent draw towards peaceful lives when they have the opportunity to
have it.
But there seems to be this assumption that kids *prefer* easy
solutions like punching their sister, or shooting someone with a gun.
That they have an innate draw to violence. And it's as if parents
believe they need to squash that innate need any way they can, not
give it any fodder to encourage it, until the kid can prove they can
suppress the desire for such choices.
Kids don't prefer to hit their sisters. They just don't have the
emotional development or the experience to get more complex solutions
to work for them. They have needs they want to meet. They need
assistance in meeting those needs in ways that are respectful. They
need to see loads and loads of peaceful solutions to their problems
before they begin grasping how to do it themselves.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> that there is a big adrenaline high involved in the danger of beingYes, lots of people like that adrenaline high. And if they know they
> in a war zone.
have options that don't involve hurting people to get it, they're
going to choose those first!
(*Assuming* they haven't been damaged growing up into concluding that
the world doesn't care about their needs so why should they care about
other people.)
> It's very peaceful!Peace, I should have said, is a relative term. I doubt Europe is much
better at preventing people from growing up in circumstances that
cause them to decide that what they gain from violence is better than
what they'll lose. But I can say that there weren't a bunch of 70-80
year olds who grew up seeing real people solving real problems with
real guns who were solving their problems with guns! People have an
inherent draw towards peaceful lives when they have the opportunity to
have it.
But there seems to be this assumption that kids *prefer* easy
solutions like punching their sister, or shooting someone with a gun.
That they have an innate draw to violence. And it's as if parents
believe they need to squash that innate need any way they can, not
give it any fodder to encourage it, until the kid can prove they can
suppress the desire for such choices.
Kids don't prefer to hit their sisters. They just don't have the
emotional development or the experience to get more complex solutions
to work for them. They have needs they want to meet. They need
assistance in meeting those needs in ways that are respectful. They
need to see loads and loads of peaceful solutions to their problems
before they begin grasping how to do it themselves.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-But there seems to be this assumption that kids *prefer* easy
solutions like punching their sister, or shooting someone with a gun.
That they have an innate draw to violence. And it's as if parents
believe they need to squash that innate need any way they can, not
give it any fodder to encourage it, until the kid can prove they can
suppress the desire for such choices.-=-
Judeo-Christian original-sin tradition.
It's part of western culture, that children are wild and evil and must be broken, tamed, trained.
The humanist heresy is to think that humans aren't so bad.
-=-They have needs they want to meet. They need
assistance in meeting those needs in ways that are respectful. They
need to see loads and loads of peaceful solutions to their problems
before they begin grasping how to do it themselves.-=-
For anyone who will be at the Good Vibrations conference, Saturday morning I'm giving a talk about that sort of thing. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
solutions like punching their sister, or shooting someone with a gun.
That they have an innate draw to violence. And it's as if parents
believe they need to squash that innate need any way they can, not
give it any fodder to encourage it, until the kid can prove they can
suppress the desire for such choices.-=-
Judeo-Christian original-sin tradition.
It's part of western culture, that children are wild and evil and must be broken, tamed, trained.
The humanist heresy is to think that humans aren't so bad.
-=-They have needs they want to meet. They need
assistance in meeting those needs in ways that are respectful. They
need to see loads and loads of peaceful solutions to their problems
before they begin grasping how to do it themselves.-=-
For anyone who will be at the Good Vibrations conference, Saturday morning I'm giving a talk about that sort of thing. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"beamoogaloo" <bea@...> wrote:
He has a brother - he'll figure it out! That's not meant to be flippant, all the roughhousing he's doing will give him a pretty clear idea of what the laws of physics are as pertains to human bodies. And playing rough will give him a lot of insight into things like codes of honor and rules of warfare, too. Roughhousing is one of the ways kids learn about the differences between "real" violence and play.
Its not the only way, though. Some kids play out ideas over and over with toys - maybe in addition to roughhouse and maybe instead of, it depends on the child and his or her environment. My daughter used to play out stories of violence and killing over and over with different choices coming into play. One I remember very clearly was after we read The Cat in the Hat where she played out killing Things One and Two in many different ways as well as going and getting Mother (who sometimes had a very large sword!) to come get those Things out of the house. She was 4, and hadn't seen very many movies at that point.
If your guy has watched the Harry Potter movies, I don't think he'll be troubled by Batman or Pirates of the Caribbean, and if he's home and can stop the movies at any time then I wouldn't worry. He's more powerful than the movie. A child who feels like he can't say "I don't like this make it stop" is less powerful than the movie - but that's not your son. He can Turn It Off. And he can brainstorm ways to get past any icky bits he doesn't want to see - skip them? watch them in another language? watch the extras and see how the effects are done? Watch them with the sound turned off? Those are all strategies other kids have used when they've wanted to watch a movie but had trouble with some "scary parts".
---Meredith
>> One other thing is that I am unsure how clearly he understands that violence can exist within cartoons and movies but that it's not OK in real life.******************
He has a brother - he'll figure it out! That's not meant to be flippant, all the roughhousing he's doing will give him a pretty clear idea of what the laws of physics are as pertains to human bodies. And playing rough will give him a lot of insight into things like codes of honor and rules of warfare, too. Roughhousing is one of the ways kids learn about the differences between "real" violence and play.
Its not the only way, though. Some kids play out ideas over and over with toys - maybe in addition to roughhouse and maybe instead of, it depends on the child and his or her environment. My daughter used to play out stories of violence and killing over and over with different choices coming into play. One I remember very clearly was after we read The Cat in the Hat where she played out killing Things One and Two in many different ways as well as going and getting Mother (who sometimes had a very large sword!) to come get those Things out of the house. She was 4, and hadn't seen very many movies at that point.
If your guy has watched the Harry Potter movies, I don't think he'll be troubled by Batman or Pirates of the Caribbean, and if he's home and can stop the movies at any time then I wouldn't worry. He's more powerful than the movie. A child who feels like he can't say "I don't like this make it stop" is less powerful than the movie - but that's not your son. He can Turn It Off. And he can brainstorm ways to get past any icky bits he doesn't want to see - skip them? watch them in another language? watch the extras and see how the effects are done? Watch them with the sound turned off? Those are all strategies other kids have used when they've wanted to watch a movie but had trouble with some "scary parts".
---Meredith
Krisula Moyer
>>In my experience, my older kids used better judgment when they were older and mobile than they would have if I hadn't let them practice on all sorts of things at home, when they were younger. They were home. If I had micro-managed their activities and thoughts and input (or tried to), I would have added noise and guilt where none was necessary or useful. But for years they were able to experiment with such things, and to gorge or avoid or immerse or reject, and it helped them build filters and bases for the bigger, more actually dangerous things to come.Sandra<<
Whew, that's a good one to remember Sandra, It would be good to ask myself real quick before I speak "does it add unnecessary noise or guilt?" I know I spent years trying to shake the noise and guilt out of my own thinking that was put there by well meaning adults in my life as a kid.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
beamoogaloo
WOW! So many amazing responses - thank you everyone. I have mostly been picking them up from my phone which is not the easiest way to reply but that has also left me with plenty of time to reflect. To be honest, I didn't need much time to reflect - I think that much of what you all said was lurking in my gut instinct anyway and I just needed a nudge to go with it.
Sandra - you said something along the lines of, "I hope you didn't tell them that it's never OK to kill someone".
We were talking about murder and I didn't think to take the conversation elsewhere from that because we were really focused on what murder meant and I said it was never OK to murder someone, having already explained that murder meant killing someone on purpose. BUT I now have so many more avenues of this topic that i'd love to talk to them about so hopefully it'll come up again soon and I'll tell them that.
And thank you to whoever it was who talked about watching the bonus features and the 'making of' sections. Great idea - hadn't thought about that. In the past the boys have loved the shorts that often come in bonus features but not been bothered by the 'talky' bits. But special effects they might really like.
SO...
this afternoon we watched Batman Begins and we all loved it. We also made homemade marshmallows but that's another story! During the film we talked about poisons and antidotes, mental health, goodies and baddies, fighting and how sometimes that can be a good thing, materials and their strengths, the power of symbols. Pretty cool!
I took a picture of our set up because Jossy had set up a cushion with two soft toys so they could watch the film too! It was very cute and felt totally incongruent with the movie choice but I loved how comfortable he felt with his movie choice and sharing it with his other toys! I don't know how to attach a photo here though.
Last night we watched Tron Legacy - also a very cool film (only PG) but loads of interesting topics came up through that too.
Have just finished writing a report as part of my job and am pretty whacked! Off to bed.
Thanks again!
Bea x
Sandra - you said something along the lines of, "I hope you didn't tell them that it's never OK to kill someone".
We were talking about murder and I didn't think to take the conversation elsewhere from that because we were really focused on what murder meant and I said it was never OK to murder someone, having already explained that murder meant killing someone on purpose. BUT I now have so many more avenues of this topic that i'd love to talk to them about so hopefully it'll come up again soon and I'll tell them that.
And thank you to whoever it was who talked about watching the bonus features and the 'making of' sections. Great idea - hadn't thought about that. In the past the boys have loved the shorts that often come in bonus features but not been bothered by the 'talky' bits. But special effects they might really like.
SO...
this afternoon we watched Batman Begins and we all loved it. We also made homemade marshmallows but that's another story! During the film we talked about poisons and antidotes, mental health, goodies and baddies, fighting and how sometimes that can be a good thing, materials and their strengths, the power of symbols. Pretty cool!
I took a picture of our set up because Jossy had set up a cushion with two soft toys so they could watch the film too! It was very cute and felt totally incongruent with the movie choice but I loved how comfortable he felt with his movie choice and sharing it with his other toys! I don't know how to attach a photo here though.
Last night we watched Tron Legacy - also a very cool film (only PG) but loads of interesting topics came up through that too.
Have just finished writing a report as part of my job and am pretty whacked! Off to bed.
Thanks again!
Bea x
plaidpanties666
"beamoogaloo" <bea@...> wrote:
It may be less incongruous if you shift from thinking in terms of "good guys -vs- bad guys" (or "violent film") to thinking about heros and caretaking. Some people go into very "violent" professions for highly idealistic reasons, so don't discount the connection between a boy being sweet and loving while watching a movie about a "dark prince".
---Meredith
> Jossy had set up a cushion with two soft toys so they could watch the film too! It was very cute and felt totally incongruent with the movie choice****************
It may be less incongruous if you shift from thinking in terms of "good guys -vs- bad guys" (or "violent film") to thinking about heros and caretaking. Some people go into very "violent" professions for highly idealistic reasons, so don't discount the connection between a boy being sweet and loving while watching a movie about a "dark prince".
---Meredith
beamoogaloo
-=- It may be less incongruous if you shift from thinking in terms of "good guys -vs- bad guys" (or "violent film") to thinking about heros and caretaking. Some people go into very "violent" professions for highly idealistic reasons, so don't discount the connection between a boy being sweet and loving while watching a movie about a "dark prince". -=-
Meredith I found this so helpful. My brain doesn't seem to make these connections, at least not as eloquently as you and many others in this group! I don't think I discounted the connection, and many of the conversations we had during and after the movie centred around similar themes to the ones you mention. But I love the way you put that together in a way that makes go "YES" and punch the air in my head!!
Meredith I found this so helpful. My brain doesn't seem to make these connections, at least not as eloquently as you and many others in this group! I don't think I discounted the connection, and many of the conversations we had during and after the movie centred around similar themes to the ones you mention. But I love the way you put that together in a way that makes go "YES" and punch the air in my head!!