Math in real life
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Yesterday I was talking to a friend that has been unschooling for about year now but still has lots of doubts and questions.
She has Sandra's book and reads that and Sandra and Joyce's site.
I told her to join this list and just read the discussions so she might have. I hope she does.
So while talking to her she asked me she still worries about math.
So I told her a little story that just happened the day before.
Gigi my 5 year old is into the cows. She knows everything about them. She is pretty amazing when it comes to knowing about cows.
She has been doing chores with dad since she was a year old and this Summer she upped that to spending most days doing chores with him.
She knows more cows than my brother in law that milks with my husband.
So Gigi is the kind of child that asks questions non stop. She has been asking a lot about time and numbers in general.
She has been asking about age a lot too.
She asked me a couple days ago:
G; Mom when will MD ( her brother who is 9 years old) be a teenager?
M: Well, he will be a teenager when he is 13 years old, so in 4 years.
G: OH, so next year will be 3 years away then. And for Patrick ( their cousin who is a year older than MD) will be only 2 years away from being a teenager.
M: Yep
G: Lets play Barbie and Ponies!
( in which all Barbies were adopting Ponies and paying a fee for them)
Alex Polikowsky
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She has Sandra's book and reads that and Sandra and Joyce's site.
I told her to join this list and just read the discussions so she might have. I hope she does.
So while talking to her she asked me she still worries about math.
So I told her a little story that just happened the day before.
Gigi my 5 year old is into the cows. She knows everything about them. She is pretty amazing when it comes to knowing about cows.
She has been doing chores with dad since she was a year old and this Summer she upped that to spending most days doing chores with him.
She knows more cows than my brother in law that milks with my husband.
So Gigi is the kind of child that asks questions non stop. She has been asking a lot about time and numbers in general.
She has been asking about age a lot too.
She asked me a couple days ago:
G; Mom when will MD ( her brother who is 9 years old) be a teenager?
M: Well, he will be a teenager when he is 13 years old, so in 4 years.
G: OH, so next year will be 3 years away then. And for Patrick ( their cousin who is a year older than MD) will be only 2 years away from being a teenager.
M: Yep
G: Lets play Barbie and Ponies!
( in which all Barbies were adopting Ponies and paying a fee for them)
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sadie Bugni
We also had a math filled day yesterday
My 9yo son and 8yo daughter both have birthdays coming up and they stated by
figuring out how many days it was until each of their birthdays.
Then, using the calculator on my new smart phone, they figured out how many
days each of them has been alive. This required multiplying and
subtracting. I sat by listening to them come up with their formulas.
Next they went to the calendar and added every one's birthday in our family
at which point they realized that they hadn't accounted for Leap Years in
their original formulas and went back to correct the "days alive" answers.
This was all unprompted, natural math usage.
My 14yo daughter decided to go to high school this year. She has had no
formal math since 1st grade. After the 1st week of school she came to us to
show us how well she could do algebra problems. She said the teacher had
been using her to help explain the problems to other kids in the class
because so many of them didn't understand and she was really proud that she
could do it with such ease.
Yesterday we talked about her classes and she said that she now hates
Algebra. I was confused and asked why because she has a high A in the
class. She said,"yeah, it's easy, but it's just so pointless! Not once has
the teacher been able to tell us how to use this in real life."
Funny, but I used to think the same way. We would do an entire lesson on a
subject doing just the math problems, and then there would be 2 story
problems at the end.
Sadie Bugni
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My 9yo son and 8yo daughter both have birthdays coming up and they stated by
figuring out how many days it was until each of their birthdays.
Then, using the calculator on my new smart phone, they figured out how many
days each of them has been alive. This required multiplying and
subtracting. I sat by listening to them come up with their formulas.
Next they went to the calendar and added every one's birthday in our family
at which point they realized that they hadn't accounted for Leap Years in
their original formulas and went back to correct the "days alive" answers.
This was all unprompted, natural math usage.
My 14yo daughter decided to go to high school this year. She has had no
formal math since 1st grade. After the 1st week of school she came to us to
show us how well she could do algebra problems. She said the teacher had
been using her to help explain the problems to other kids in the class
because so many of them didn't understand and she was really proud that she
could do it with such ease.
Yesterday we talked about her classes and she said that she now hates
Algebra. I was confused and asked why because she has a high A in the
class. She said,"yeah, it's easy, but it's just so pointless! Not once has
the teacher been able to tell us how to use this in real life."
Funny, but I used to think the same way. We would do an entire lesson on a
subject doing just the math problems, and then there would be 2 story
problems at the end.
Sadie Bugni
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lydia reiter
I have another story to reassure your friend. I started unschooling about 3 years ago. My daughter was 14 and I was nervous but decided to trust her and help her pursue her own interests. Her main interest was sewing. We bought her a sewing machine and she spent hours sewing, often at 2 or 3 am. She taught herself using videos and books and learned to make many cool outfits from inexpensive and free clothes that she picked up at yard sales and thrift shops. I enjoyed watching her and decided that it wasn't really important that she didn't learn all that higher math taught in high school because most of us forget it and never use it anyway.
Well last spring she took the ACT and did well, but I was really surprised that she scored very well on the plane geometry/trigonometry section. Then I realized that she had learned it from sewing!
Lydia Reiter
________________________________
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Well last spring she took the ACT and did well, but I was really surprised that she scored very well on the plane geometry/trigonometry section. Then I realized that she had learned it from sewing!
Lydia Reiter
________________________________
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Funny, but I used to think the same way. We would do an entire lesson on a
subject doing just the math problems, and then there would be 2 story
problems at the end.-=-
My husband is very mathish.
Before we had kids, one day we were talking about how easy it was for him, and how as I got older I got frustrated and didn't get it anymore. I dropped out of Algebra II because I was confused, the teacher couldn't help, and when I asked what it was good for he said to measure how far away the stars were. I said "Don't we have people to do that!?"
But I told Keith that I had liked geometry, and always loved the story problems.
He said the story problems were the only problem there were. The "number problems" were the answers to unstated problems, without the calculations.
I remember it VERY vividly. I remember it this clearly: I was sitting on the side of our bed, at our old house. He was six feet away, but I couldn't see him because he was sitting on the toilet, with the door open, but on the other side of the wall. My world changed. I DID get it. I HAD gotten math. If it's put in English, and if it applies to something in the real world, I like it. If it's just numbers to rearrange or manipulate, I don't like it.
In all my years of school (eleven of which involved math classes, counting Math for Non-Majors in college), no one had told me any such thing. It was a big moment for me, and it meant that all of my kids' math-learning leapt out at me and I wasn't afraid they would never learn math.
Sandra
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subject doing just the math problems, and then there would be 2 story
problems at the end.-=-
My husband is very mathish.
Before we had kids, one day we were talking about how easy it was for him, and how as I got older I got frustrated and didn't get it anymore. I dropped out of Algebra II because I was confused, the teacher couldn't help, and when I asked what it was good for he said to measure how far away the stars were. I said "Don't we have people to do that!?"
But I told Keith that I had liked geometry, and always loved the story problems.
He said the story problems were the only problem there were. The "number problems" were the answers to unstated problems, without the calculations.
I remember it VERY vividly. I remember it this clearly: I was sitting on the side of our bed, at our old house. He was six feet away, but I couldn't see him because he was sitting on the toilet, with the door open, but on the other side of the wall. My world changed. I DID get it. I HAD gotten math. If it's put in English, and if it applies to something in the real world, I like it. If it's just numbers to rearrange or manipulate, I don't like it.
In all my years of school (eleven of which involved math classes, counting Math for Non-Majors in college), no one had told me any such thing. It was a big moment for me, and it meant that all of my kids' math-learning leapt out at me and I wasn't afraid they would never learn math.
Sandra
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Sadie Bugni
Another thing to point out to your friend is that just because a math
concept is taught, doesn't mean that it's retained. My daughter's Spanish
teacher just sent out an email to her student's parents because over half
the class failed their test on telling time because they didn't know how to
read analog clocks (these are kids that are also taking Algebra or Geometry
as a requirement). Mesa, my daughter, got a 94% on hers, but because of the
high failure rate, the teacher has to offer a way for students to make up
their points. Kids that did pass can use the extra points to reach 105%.
My uncle, an unschooling parent for the last 23 years, told me this when I
too asked about kids learning math. In college, it only takes 1 semester to
learn everything from grade K-12. It's then about 1 semester of each higher
level course, if needed for a profession or degree. At first I cringed at
the idea of my kids having to play catch up in college if they hadn't
learned enough on their own, but then he pointed out the alternative. Hours
upon hours of math concepts they may or may not be ready to understand, and
possibly a hate for something that's naturally part of life. I continued
unschooling, including math and haven't regretted it. My oldest is 17 and
math now comes easily to him as well.
Sadie Bugni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
concept is taught, doesn't mean that it's retained. My daughter's Spanish
teacher just sent out an email to her student's parents because over half
the class failed their test on telling time because they didn't know how to
read analog clocks (these are kids that are also taking Algebra or Geometry
as a requirement). Mesa, my daughter, got a 94% on hers, but because of the
high failure rate, the teacher has to offer a way for students to make up
their points. Kids that did pass can use the extra points to reach 105%.
My uncle, an unschooling parent for the last 23 years, told me this when I
too asked about kids learning math. In college, it only takes 1 semester to
learn everything from grade K-12. It's then about 1 semester of each higher
level course, if needed for a profession or degree. At first I cringed at
the idea of my kids having to play catch up in college if they hadn't
learned enough on their own, but then he pointed out the alternative. Hours
upon hours of math concepts they may or may not be ready to understand, and
possibly a hate for something that's naturally part of life. I continued
unschooling, including math and haven't regretted it. My oldest is 17 and
math now comes easily to him as well.
Sadie Bugni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zurro
This is right up my alley :) I've been thinking about this topic recently. Sandra I read the part in your book about how you and your husband integrated math concepts into everyday life. I know others have done that as well.
My question however, is how do you integrate it when you have math anxiety and a poor math base? I have hated math and numbers as long as I can remember. I literally feel like a door shuts if I get in a situation where I have to figure out some sort of math problem. I remember skipping school on days that I knew we would have math test. Failed HS algebra and accounting twice and somehow managed to avoid any other math classes throughout HS.My oldest brother tried to show me how to "do" algebra several times but didn't make any difference who or when it was it just didn't work. When I decided to go to college I had to catch up as much as possible and did manage to get through algebra, basic chem, and basic statistics (with a lot of help) but even simple things like doing fractions or basic calculations is still a challenge for me. even my husband will look twice sometimes and ask if I'm sure about some calculation I made. So for someone who has math anxiety, how do you integrate math into daily life?
Oh and Caitlyn will be 5 in a few months and already has figured out various calculations (much like Gigi) all without my help so I know she's already picked up concepts likely from TV and games.
Thanks
Laura Z
My question however, is how do you integrate it when you have math anxiety and a poor math base? I have hated math and numbers as long as I can remember. I literally feel like a door shuts if I get in a situation where I have to figure out some sort of math problem. I remember skipping school on days that I knew we would have math test. Failed HS algebra and accounting twice and somehow managed to avoid any other math classes throughout HS.My oldest brother tried to show me how to "do" algebra several times but didn't make any difference who or when it was it just didn't work. When I decided to go to college I had to catch up as much as possible and did manage to get through algebra, basic chem, and basic statistics (with a lot of help) but even simple things like doing fractions or basic calculations is still a challenge for me. even my husband will look twice sometimes and ask if I'm sure about some calculation I made. So for someone who has math anxiety, how do you integrate math into daily life?
Oh and Caitlyn will be 5 in a few months and already has figured out various calculations (much like Gigi) all without my help so I know she's already picked up concepts likely from TV and games.
Thanks
Laura Z
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I was talking to a friend that has been unschooling for about year now but still has lots of doubts and questions.
> She has Sandra's book and reads that and Sandra and Joyce's site.
> I told her to join this list and just read the discussions so she might have. I hope she does.
> So while talking to her she asked me she still worries about math.
> So I told her a little story that just happened the day before.
>
> Gigi my 5 year old is into the cows. She knows everything about them. She is pretty amazing when it comes to knowing about cows.
> She has been doing chores with dad since she was a year old and this Summer she upped that to spending most days doing chores with him.
> She knows more cows than my brother in law that milks with my husband.
> So Gigi is the kind of child that asks questions non stop. She has been asking a lot about time and numbers in general.
> She has been asking about age a lot too.
>
> She asked me a couple days ago:
> G; Mom when will MD ( her brother who is 9 years old) be a teenager?
> M: Well, he will be a teenager when he is 13 years old, so in 4 years.
> G: OH, so next year will be 3 years away then. And for Patrick ( their cousin who is a year older than MD) will be only 2 years away from being a teenager.
> M: Yep
> G: Lets play Barbie and Ponies!
> ( in which all Barbies were adopting Ponies and paying a fee for them)
>
>
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- At first I cringed at
the idea of my kids having to play catch up in college if they hadn't
learned enough on their own, but then he pointed out the alternative. Hours
upon hours of math concepts they may or may not be ready to understand, and
possibly a hate for something that's naturally part of life. -=-
My alarms went off at this phrase:
"having to play catch up"
Unnatural. It's an idiom, and not a very good one. And it involves "have to." So on many levels, it's wrong.
If you can think of a way to say it in your own words, rather than using a loaded phrase that's only ever used as an insult, or an indication of failure, then reword it to yourself. (Not to us, you don't need to.)
If a college student is behind in math, and was homeschooled, well so?
If a college student is behind in math and went to school, then what? 12 or more years of frustration and confusion, which will be carried into the college classroom and tension and avoidance.
When a homeschooled kid is in a remedial class in college, he's in there with 20-30 kids who went to school. But he doesn't have the baggage.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the idea of my kids having to play catch up in college if they hadn't
learned enough on their own, but then he pointed out the alternative. Hours
upon hours of math concepts they may or may not be ready to understand, and
possibly a hate for something that's naturally part of life. -=-
My alarms went off at this phrase:
"having to play catch up"
Unnatural. It's an idiom, and not a very good one. And it involves "have to." So on many levels, it's wrong.
If you can think of a way to say it in your own words, rather than using a loaded phrase that's only ever used as an insult, or an indication of failure, then reword it to yourself. (Not to us, you don't need to.)
If a college student is behind in math, and was homeschooled, well so?
If a college student is behind in math and went to school, then what? 12 or more years of frustration and confusion, which will be carried into the college classroom and tension and avoidance.
When a homeschooled kid is in a remedial class in college, he's in there with 20-30 kids who went to school. But he doesn't have the baggage.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Sandra I read the part in your book about how you and your husband integrated math concepts into everyday life.-=-
Are you sure? Did I say that?
The phrase "integrated math concepts into everyday life" doesn't sound like me.
That sounds like we planted math for them to find, but we didn't, outside of having games and tools around (geoboards and rubberbands, dice, measuring equipment, cards, we gave them allowance money).
We recognized math concepts in everyday life, but we didn't put them in there.
-=-My question however, is how do you integrate it when you have math anxiety and a poor math base? I have hated math and numbers as long as I can remember. I literally feel like a door shuts if I get in a situation where I have to figure out some sort of math problem.-=-
Don't integrate it. Avoid it. Don't figure out math problems. Stop dealing with numbers when you don't have to. "De-math" yourself if you can. Give yourself a many-months break from it. It will still be there.
-=-. So for someone who has math anxiety, how do you integrate math into daily life? -=-
Three times in one e-mail you used that phrase "integrate math into life / daily life / everyday life."
Try to never, ever, EVER use that phrase again. Three time was too many. If you even THINK that phrase, add another month to your de-mathification. If you had a broken ankle, you wouldn't jump up and walk on it. You have a broken math-part. Let it heal. Don't "integrate" anything. Just be. Just see.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Are you sure? Did I say that?
The phrase "integrated math concepts into everyday life" doesn't sound like me.
That sounds like we planted math for them to find, but we didn't, outside of having games and tools around (geoboards and rubberbands, dice, measuring equipment, cards, we gave them allowance money).
We recognized math concepts in everyday life, but we didn't put them in there.
-=-My question however, is how do you integrate it when you have math anxiety and a poor math base? I have hated math and numbers as long as I can remember. I literally feel like a door shuts if I get in a situation where I have to figure out some sort of math problem.-=-
Don't integrate it. Avoid it. Don't figure out math problems. Stop dealing with numbers when you don't have to. "De-math" yourself if you can. Give yourself a many-months break from it. It will still be there.
-=-. So for someone who has math anxiety, how do you integrate math into daily life? -=-
Three times in one e-mail you used that phrase "integrate math into life / daily life / everyday life."
Try to never, ever, EVER use that phrase again. Three time was too many. If you even THINK that phrase, add another month to your de-mathification. If you had a broken ankle, you wouldn't jump up and walk on it. You have a broken math-part. Let it heal. Don't "integrate" anything. Just be. Just see.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"zurro" <zurrolaur@...> wrote:
Do you mean for yourself? I teach a workshop I call "no math quilting". It's a totally bogus title - you can't make a quilt without math. Can not. You can't cook, drive a car, walk to the store, shop or do your laundry without math. It *is* integrated into your daily life.
The trouble is, you've been scared off my processes and computational methods that are ridiculously over-thought and taught by people who don't understand the thinking behind them. But you don't need those particular processes and computational methods. You can get along just fine without schooly math. You do it every day without realizing it.
What do you think you need math for? Household accounting? Buy a computer program. Seriously. My father is an engineer - he Has all that school math all the way up through calculus and he can't balance his checkbook or get his bills paid on time without a wife or a computer program. Thank goodness the relevant programs came out around the time of his first divorce ;) Shopping? Ask the cashier or a roving employee to do a price check. Places like walmart with the handy scanners in the aisles are good for that. What else?
Don't beat yourself up over it. The whole reason I teach my "no math quilting" workshop is because most women have so much math-phobia. When I worked in a fabric store I did math for other women every day and I know how little school math most people remember and it's not much.
The good news is that something you're seeing already - you don't have to teach your daughter Any math at all. In fact, you'll do better to teach her none at all than any at all if you have any kind of math phobia. If she asks and you freeze up, but forthright - you can use what I tell Morgan about computer programming: "you already know more about this than I do."
---Meredith
> So for someone who has math anxiety, how do you integrate math into daily life?***************
Do you mean for yourself? I teach a workshop I call "no math quilting". It's a totally bogus title - you can't make a quilt without math. Can not. You can't cook, drive a car, walk to the store, shop or do your laundry without math. It *is* integrated into your daily life.
The trouble is, you've been scared off my processes and computational methods that are ridiculously over-thought and taught by people who don't understand the thinking behind them. But you don't need those particular processes and computational methods. You can get along just fine without schooly math. You do it every day without realizing it.
What do you think you need math for? Household accounting? Buy a computer program. Seriously. My father is an engineer - he Has all that school math all the way up through calculus and he can't balance his checkbook or get his bills paid on time without a wife or a computer program. Thank goodness the relevant programs came out around the time of his first divorce ;) Shopping? Ask the cashier or a roving employee to do a price check. Places like walmart with the handy scanners in the aisles are good for that. What else?
Don't beat yourself up over it. The whole reason I teach my "no math quilting" workshop is because most women have so much math-phobia. When I worked in a fabric store I did math for other women every day and I know how little school math most people remember and it's not much.
The good news is that something you're seeing already - you don't have to teach your daughter Any math at all. In fact, you'll do better to teach her none at all than any at all if you have any kind of math phobia. If she asks and you freeze up, but forthright - you can use what I tell Morgan about computer programming: "you already know more about this than I do."
---Meredith